It’s me, Mark Stone, and in this episode of the Backseat Driver Podcast, I welcome back Joe Pep, better known to many as "Joey the Pencils", for a fascinating look at the iconic cars that helped define some of television's most memorable series.

Together, we explore how certain vehicles became stars in their own right, often leaving a bigger impression than the actors behind the wheel. From the stunning Aston Martin DB6 and Ferrari Dino 246 GT to Pontiac Firebird Esprit, we discuss the cars that became inseparable from the shows they appeared in.

I reflect on classic series including The Persuaders!, Columbo, The Mentalist, and The Rockford Files, examining how these vehicles enhanced storytelling and became cultural touchstones for generations of viewers.

Joe also shares his thoughts on the evolution of automotive design, particularly the changing fortunes of American cars during the 1970s, and how the vehicles seen on screen often reflected the values, aspirations, and technology of their era.

This episode is a celebration of the cars that helped shape television history, proving that sometimes the most memorable character in a show has four wheels and an engine.

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I'd like to welcome back to the Backseat Driver Joe Pep, or Joe Peppertone, or as I also call him, Joey the Pencils from over in the good old usa Joe, welcome back to the Backseat Driver.

Hey, listen, Joey the Pencil here from Wilmington, North Carolina.

And I'll tell you, it's just, just swell to be back and call my English car pals out there.

Hey, listen, forget about it.

No, I mean, you're on my podcast more than am, but.

Well, we.

Tron, we try.

You still think it's your old radio show, don't you?

Well, no, because this, this has an English royalty flare and which I enjoy immensely.

And, you know, it's Mark.

You know, you talk about these cars and these TV shows.

Some I heard of, some I didn't, you know, and.

Like the.

Was it the Persuaders?

Yeah, I mean, the one thing about it is a lot of these TV shows, Persuaders, Equalizer, Batman, the Monkeys, Rockford Files, Columbo, one of my favorites, the Mentalist.

As time's gone by, it's not the lead character or the actors that are remembered.

It's the cars that are remembered more than.

I mean, you just mentioned there, the Persuaders.

I mean, you mentioned that TV series with Roger Moore and Tony Curtis.

It's surprising.

It wasn't a show that lasted very long.

It was one of those, that the plot lines became weak as the series went on.

But you mentioned that and the two things everybody remembers, the Bahama Gold Aston Martin dbs, and that was driven by Roger Boers, Lord Brett Sinclair and Danny wilde's Ferrari Dino 246.

But at the time, the Dino was the Dino.

They weren't classed as Ferraris.

They haven't achieved Ferrari status.

But the interesting thing about that car was the Aston Martin.

It was basically the launch of that body style because it was the old DB6 with the new body on it.

It was still the old running gear, but to modernize it a bit more, they gave it the vantage, alloy wheels, so it looked a far more modern car or updated car than it was.

And everybody thought it was the V8, but it wasn't.

It was the straight six engine.

So it was the old car with a new dress on it.

Very pretty car.

And then the Dino, I mean, everybody loved the Dino because it was.

Technically, it was the V6 Ferrari engine that went on to power the famous Stratos rally car.

But you mentioned that show to people and the two things they remember are the car, the two cars, the Aston and the Dino.

And I mean, I Conclude it's the same for a lot of American shows.

It's like I mentioned there, the Mentalist, which is a reasonably modern show and I've just re watched it all again on YouTube.

Fantastic.

Absolutely fantastic series in my opinion.

Opinion.

But what do people remember?

They remember the Citro MDs that the lead actor drove around in.

I mean, I conclude it's the same.

I mean one of the great ones I remember was the Rockford Files with James Garner who drove, I mean tell us about that Absolutely fantastic Pontiac of which there were three versions because the series ran long enough for Pontiac to have brought three different ones out.

Right.

With James Gardner with, with that automobile.

Yeah.

And this was at a time where like in the 70s here in the United States, the, the cars were in my opinion and I don't want to offend any of your audience members but they were crap.

They were cheaply built.

Yeah.

And you know, plastic was coming more and more into the automobiles.

Yeah.

And they look cheap.

Now here, here's a question for you.

Now as you know I bought a.

Yeah.

Okay.

And I thought it was a sharp looking car and it had a V6.

But if you were going up a hill and you had the air conditioning on, it would struggle.

So I would have to turn the AC to make it good.

So this automobile that you just mentioned with the.

I think it was the persuaders had a V6 that was the Ferrari.

The Ferrari of the V6.

Was that worse would you say that was a more stronger engine?

It was.

They were coming out with the Wankel.

Remember the Wankel?

Yeah.

Ferrari didn't do a Wankel engine.

NSU did the Wankel engine.

Not to my knowledge.

Maybe in Germany they were the NSU R8 to made an appearance.

But nobody in England on an English TV series ever drove an NSUR 80.

But it was Ferrari's in many ways.

First small engine was that because the Dino was a smaller car, beautiful little engine.

And that engine said went on to power the famous Lancia Stratos rally car.

The Aston Martin was a more powerful than.

Do you remember Buick automobile came out with a car called an Opel, which was a small car.

Yeah, well, the Opel had been going for years because of course it was Opel who.

The famous Opel Blitz, which was the racing car.

And then it was the name of the truck that Opel built.

And they actually did it, quite a bit of it from America.

They built them for the Wehrmacht during the Second World War, but we won't go into that, but.

And the Aston Martin, I mean, the ironic thing was before Roger Moore as Lord Brett Sinclair, the Aston became famous.

Prior to that, he was in the Saint, which I think that made it to America.

And he drove the Volvo, Volvo.

I mean, that series has just run again on UK television.

And it's interesting because you see that Volvo evolve.

The very first series had the car with the bullhorn bumpers and those cars were actually built by Jensen, manufacturer of the famous interceptors and the 541s, things like that.

But once again, you mention that car, that series, and it is the car that people remember the most.

They've done remakes of the Saint where the car became a Jaguar xjs.

But in my opinion it that Jaguar, Ian Ogilvy played the Saint.

Now, as we all know, this is done to achieve sales.

And the original idea for the Saint was Simon Templar will drive an E Type.

But in Jaguar's usual frame of mind, they decided, no, you're not having a Jaguar, you're not having an E Type.

And all of a sudden sales rocketed because people saw this very, very stylish Swedish car and the last thing anybod Swedes made with stylish cars, because until then the only Swedish cars they knew were the big bulky Amazon saloons or the famous little Saabs, little two stroke Saabs.

But so, yeah, and of course Roger Moore went on to play Bond, but of course he never really drove an Aston Martini as Bond.

He drove the Lotus.

I mean, what I'm, what I'm saying here, it was a white automobile, very stylish.

Very, very stylish car.

You know, it's, it's like, it almost has like that American look with the, the fin, a tiny fin in the back.

Yeah.

And here's a car.

I mean, this is.

I always think of things like this.

It's like, here's a car, great looking car.

But then in the 90s, Volvo was.

It turned into a box.

Volvo became obsessed with safety.

Needless to say, I don't remember, maybe in Sweden, but I don't remember any detective or thrill seeking private eye driving a 244 Volvo around the place.

Well, I mean, well, here, here's something for you.

And I don't, I don't know if I told you this.

It's.

So, as you know, my work's been in Hemming's classic car.

And one of the things they had used of this thing called the Hemmings Daily Blog.

Yeah.

And what the comic book industry does and what I found out is that they would place automobile.

And they still do this.

They place automobiles into the comic books to attract readers.

Yeah, Same thing like with a TV show.

So I came up with things and I'll.

I'll have to send you this link.

You'll get a kick out of it.

Where Avanti's.

The Studebaker Avanti was showcased.

Yeah.

The Chevrolet Corvette.

Corvette back in the.

Jeez.

I think it was like 19 Archie comics.

1954.

55.

Yeah.

And you know, of course, Archie drove around in a, in the 40s, a jawoppy.

Yeah.

Okay.

Which was like a mishmash of the Model T Ford and other period clunkers back in the day.

But he graduated to the Ford Mustang.

Yeah.

But I wish I could go back in time because when you're 10 years old, it's like, oh, that's a car.

Wow.

And I gotta go to the bathroom.

But I mean, you talk about like American series.

I mean, probably two of the most famous American TV series cars was the Batmobile.

That was based on a prototype, an actual prototype car.

And the famous Monkey Mobile of the TV series the Monkeys.

And I mean, though they weren't production cars, I mean, they absolutely personified both TV series that were in, didn't they?

Oh, my God.

Yeah, it's.

I remember seeing a commercial as a kid, so that came out in 66.

I didn't know.

You know, I didn't follow cars like I do now.

But I mean, George.

If you said George, George Barris to me back in 66, I would say, who.

But I mean, that automobile was in a movie with Debbie Reynolds.

Yeah.

Before it became the Batmobile.

And it was a prototype.

The one.

When I saw the Batmobile for the first time as a kid on television, it was like.

Your head exploded.

Yeah, but of course, you know, it's like back then, you know, anything that was new and exciting was like this.

I gotta watch this.

Yeah.

And then it became so popular.

And then they had, you know, the Bat Cycle and the Bat Boat and the Bat Helicopter, and.

And I mean, the thing was, is that every Thursday night here in the United States was Batman.

Yeah.

And they would do.

And this is when TV shows would run from September to.

To June, and then they would have reruns here in the United States.

So, you know, you're constantly watching reruns in it.

But the Monkey Mobile, I always heard, of course, we know it was a Pontiac, but the roof was from, I think a Packard.

Yeah.

Automobile, you know, and.

But this was at a time when everything was, you know, the.

The influence from the Beatles.

Yeah.

You know, the Mod look.

You know, we had a TV show out here called the Mod Squad, you know, so it was in that period.

So it really fit well.

Yeah.

Wasn't showcased a lot on television, what I can remember.

Yeah.

But anytime you did see it in.

In the storyline, it was like, wow, this is great.

And then.

See, now, here's.

Here's something that you don't know about.

It's called.

There was a TV show and it was a flop.

And it was.

It was called My Mother the Car.

Yeah.

And this car.

This car was.

It.

It looked like a studio car.

Like it was made up, but it was a.

What the heck was that?

It was a porter.

And to me, it wasn't a very.

And what they did was they souped it up.

You know, they put modern tires on and.

Yeah.

So the prem of this car was that this guy's mother died, was reincarnated.

So, you know, he's.

He's talking Dick Van DJ's brother was on this Jer.

I think it was Jerry Van Dyke.

And he would, he'd be talking like, you know, what's going on in the family and stuff.

And the car would.

You would hear the mother's voice, you know.

But then the show was a flop.

It was a big.

If you talk about talking cars, I mean, you could probably say that idea.

And once again, another TV series where the car became more famous probably than its leading actor was Night Rider.

Oh, Knight Rider.

Yep.

Here you have a really sexy.

I say sexy here in England.

Yes.

You have a really.

Oh, thank you.

You have a real.

I'll just, I'll just say you're describing me,.

Ted Mark Stone.

He sure is as sexy.

Well, let me tell you, a sexy broadcaster here in the United States of America.

But the.

So you have a great looking car and you have a great looking leading man.

And so that attracts the women, the car attracts the guys.

And it was a win.

Win.

Yeah.

You know, it could have been a flop.

It could have been a flop.

But these cars, there's so much in the, in the American culture.

Yeah.

You know, of, of an English culture.

I told you about the, the TV show with Mrs. Appeal.

Yes, she was, Mike.

She was at age 12.

She was my first TV girl, Diana.

Rigging her Lotus Elam.

Oh my God.

But that was the first time, Mark, where I saw these beautiful cars.

Yeah.

Being driven around, you know, and of course everything was in black and white and you know, I thought everything at that time, everything in England was black.

Stupid kid.

But the, the thing was is that it exposed me to that.

Whereas growing up, I grew up, as you know, in New Brunswick, New Jersey.

And we have Rutgers University a block away from our house.

Yeah.

So I would see Carmen Gillas and Volkswagens and sobs.

Yeah.

But that was, that was about it.

There was nothing of really like Sunbeams.

Yeah.

You know, but see, Sunbeams and stuff.

But nothing like compared to what was on the TV show that Mrs. Peel was driving, you know.

So again, the automobiles, is that added extra attraction?

Well, with the Avengers, after Diana Reid left and Linda Thorson took over the.

Originally Lalanne departed and she drove an Eland 2 plus 2 and then a Lotus Europa, the famous Renault powered Lotus.

Difficult to get in and no.

Notoriously unreliable.

But once again, a very, to coin your phrase, very sexy little sports car.

They came out with Ford, came out with a great looking car called a Capri.

Yeah.

And it was Ford and there was the Mercury version, which I can't recall.

I mean, we have the, we have the Capri in England.

It was based initially on the console classic but then became its own car.

And the Capri around a two door coupe.

Beautiful little car.

Well, not little car.

And they became very successful with bigger engines and very successful racing cars.

But yeah, we have the Ford Capri.

At that time.

When I got older, when I was younger, I was like 6:1.

Yeah.

I couldn't get into the car.

Yeah.

I could not get into the car.

And to me it's like when you're buying an automobile there's these certain checkpoints.

It has a nice looking front end.

Yeah.

And it's have a dashboard that I like, you know and then it's in the, in the tail section.

But you have to get into the goddamn.

Sorry, but you have to get into the car.

Yeah.

You know and if you're struggling.

Well, you know, if you're like kind of being poured out of the car to get out of it.

Yeah.

No way.

It's like the Model T Ford model.

I was taught how to drive a Model T Ford.

I'm not going to get into it.

But I'll tell you about it is that it was.

My kneecaps were up to my ears.

Yeah.

So you know, it's like if you're six feet tall you're gonna have a difficult time.

Yeah.

Driving that car, you know, car from the 50s, cars from the 40s, I have no problems driving those.

But 20s, forget about it.

I mean two other models, I think I mentioned one American TV cop programs.

There was the famous Peter Falkos Colombo driving the, the Peugeots, I mean the Peugeot Cabrios.

And it was the 403.

Now like a lot of TV and film cars, there was more than one of them.

I've actually sat in one of them that sits in the Peugeot museum in France.

But I mean it was just unusual that the an American TV series producers selected what was purposely meant to be a clunker of a French car.

I mean did it.

How did this go down in, in America?

Did.

Well I conclude it caused people to comment.

Which is the name of the game?

Well, the Colombo TV car, you know, it's like here you have this bumbling detective and why they chose it, I would say they chose it because of that was what, the 59.

Am I saying that right?

Yeah.

Peugeot 4 or Peugeot 403.

So okay, so let's look at this as if I was the art director on this.

So here you got a guy that's when, when you meet him you think this guy's a dimwit?

Yeah.

You know, he's not the sharpest knife in the.

In the box.

You look at how he dresses.

He has a.

And I've seen this.

It's like taking the train to Manhattan from Connecticut when I was working at Archie.

You know, it's like the raincoat hasn't been to the dry cleaners in years.

And it's just hanging there.

Yeah.

And it has all old coffee stains and food stains and his pants don't have a crease and his shoes are worn out.

So I feel that they picked this car.

You know, it could have been an old Cadillac, it could have been an old Chevy, you know, but I feel that that car fit his personality.

Yeah.

You know, and it made it a success and it's would have been more popular if it was an American car.

Who knows?

Yeah, who really knows?

It worked.

So, you know, it's.

I mean, it.

Well, it wasn't a suitable car to promote the brand.

I mean, it didn't cause the Americans to rush out and try and find their nearest Peugeot dealer.

I dare say.

Have you got one of those knackered old Peugeots like Colombo drives, which.

The answer would have been promptly no.

That's if they'd have found a Peugeot dealer.

See, now I think if he drove around like a 59 Peugeot 403 Cabriolet.

Yeah.

You know, I've seen them where they were like a beautiful red with a.

With a caramel interior.

Yeah.

You know, that could have.

That could have really been it.

Yeah.

But you know, it's.

I felt the car, it is personality.

And I mean, the other car that fit a personality, you could probably say the car was commensurate in size with the actor and the character, which was William Conrad playing Frank Cannon driving a Lincoln Continental two door.

I don't know is he classed as a coupe or not?

I mean, when he pulled up outside the scene of the crime, the car was still rocking to a halt 10 minutes after he managed to get himself out of the thing.

Frank Cannon's TV car.

Wow.

You know, that's something where.

I'm gonna tell you that, God's honest truth, that wasn't one of my favorite shows.

I mean, the car was the size of your average aircraft carrier, wasn't it?

Well, that's the way, you know, Americans were.

Let's see, Frank Cannon's TV car.

Frank Cannon's TV car.

Let's see.

Well, I mean, I won't mind just butting in.

William Conrad actually did an Advert for a restaurant chain that sold a lot of salad.

I think he managed to avoid them, to be quite honest.

He was a great big happy looking guy, but he was definitely a salad dodger.

It was him and Orson Welles.

I.

They just seem like guys that would like eat a sandwich and they would just drop all over their food all over their chest and goes down a bucket of line.

Yeah.

I mean what size engine did that thing have in under its bonnet?

You got me on that.

I mean it's probably something.

I mean it'd be at the era to be one of those beautiful economical American engines.

Probably something like a 7 1/2 liter V8.

That on a good deal.

We talking the Lincoln or are we talking another car?

But no, the Frank Cannons Lincoln Continental.

Because the other thing was it had the boot lid that implied the spare wheel was there and it wasn't.

Well, they were going through.

And this is of course what I recall.

They would take a Cadillac or a Lincoln and they would make it into a pimp mobile.

Yeah.

Where they had the big headlights and it was like cars from the.

Again, cars from the 20s and the 30s and that.

And I think with the Lincoln, I mean it was a beautiful automobile under the hood.

A friend of mine had a.

Not this version but a four door and brand new quarter.

Brand new.

Yeah.

The car drove like it was on a cloud.

It was just beautiful.

But I think it was more of the, the, you know, looking back at when they did have.

When people did have Continental kits on the car.

Yeah.

And back in the 40s and that.

Let's see, what do we got for engine size with this beast.

Thank God for the Internet.

Then we have everything.

Right.

It's nice to see you're fully prepared for this.

Well, okay.

So.

Okay.

It was a Ford engine, 460 cubic inch, 7.5 liter V8.

I wasn't so far off at my guess was I.

That car.

That car would fly down the highway.

Yeah.

I mean it's.

But now my father had a brand new 71 Pontiac Bonneville.

Yeah.

455 V8.

And when he bought this gasoline for high test.

Yeah.

Here in the United States and New Jersey was 30 cents.

Yeah.

Which he felt was very expensive.

And you know, it's like he didn't.

He bought it because he liked it.

It's not like nowadays where you investigate everything about the car.

Yeah.

And you know how much you Know, and I always remember him saying, he goes, pepe, he says, this car is drinking me out of house and home.

Yeah.

You know, and it just, it went.

But that type of car, that's a type of car like Frank Cannon drove where he, you know, a great model, you know, but that's the type of car where it's like, come on, we're going to Florida.

Yeah.

And you go, you know, you being, you know, air conditioning, beautiful ride, and you would arrive in style.

Yeah.

And I was trained how to, how to drive big cars back then and how to park, parental park.

This generation now they're, you know, they got computers that will do it.

Yeah.

I'd help with that.

Computer goes out, then they'd be sitting with their thumb up there as my father would sing.

Their thumb up their gula.

Yeah.

I mean, Hutch.

That's.

Wow, that was a nice car.

Yeah, that was a nice car.

And at that time, they were building crappy cars here in the States.

Yeah.

You know, they look cheap.

You know, it's.

But this was.

Even the.

If it was a solid color or if it came with a vinyl roof.

Yeah.

It was just.

They were nice looking, Nice looking cars.

The.

There's a guy here in Wilmington, North Carolina, that has the car that they use when it would go on appearances.

Yeah.

Okay.

And you know, it.

Clean as a button.

Looks like it just came off the showroom floor.

Yeah.

The style of it was, you know, the front nose was great.

You know, you didn't, you know, it's like when that show came out, it was like, hey, that's cool.

Yeah.

You know, the stripe, very striking stripe.

And you know, you saw cars that mimicked it.

You know, I seen those type of cars where they were all different colors.

Yeah.

They didn't want to be, you know, I don't want a record.

I want a blue one or I want a black.

Yeah.

But that car really brought it.

But to me, it's like the television shows, like a birthday cake.

You know, it's.

You have the show and the inner workings of the television program, but that was like the icing.

Yeah.

On the cake.

And that's what you, you know, you think of the two actors and you think of that car.

You know, they have a show here that just started called Lincoln Lawyer.

Yeah.

Which I think your listeners would really like.

And he drives and I believe it's a 64 Lincoln Continental.

Yeah.

Beautiful car.

And it was on.

And over the years it's gotten to be more popular.

Yeah.

So here's this beautiful car and it's got this dark cloud over it, you know, and now it's, you know, 60 years and people are forgetting and.

But it's, it's a beautiful car and anytime it's shown in the, in the TV storyline, it's like a treat, you know, so it's a, it's a very good show.

I recommend it highly and I don't get a commission on it.

Now, another English car that appeared in an American series was.

And they've remade it as films now.

And the film's very good.

I like the films.

But there is no star car in the Denzel Washington versions.

Was the Equalizer with Edward Woodward who played an English spy or a member of the English secret service and CIA who lived in America and decided he would sort people's problems out for them.

And he drove a Series 3 Jaguar XJ6.

Absolutely stunning car.

And apparently one of the reasons they chose that car was a.

He was English so they wanted a nice English car.

And of all the nice English cars, a bit like the Rockford Pontiac, it will j turn very easily.

Now for those who aren't aware, a J turn is where you reverse at high speed, spin the wheel, let the front of the car slide round and seamlessly and smoothlessly the car then drives forward and away you go.

Apparently it is the favored maneuver of evasive drivers or defensive drivers.

But yeah, I mean, whether that helped the TV scene.

But once again, it's the black Jaguar of Edward Woodward who is probably famous, more famous than the actor for that TV series, mention the Equal.

Oh yeah, that beautiful series 3 Jaguar XJ6.

Because the Americans have always liked Jaguars, haven't they?

Yes.

I had.

My boss in New York city had a two seater Jag.

Yeah.

1950.

And he says, would you like to get in it?

And I said, heck yeah.

And.

But the problem was my height.

My feet went past the pedals.

Yeah.

Oh, it was meant more for.

I always say, someone.

That illegal horse.

A horse.

A jockey.

Yeah, yeah.

And as a, as a G turn mark, you got it all wrong.

They do that in the shopping center.

So.

So it's regular sight to see the pepper tone Toyota Corolla doing a J turn out of the mall car park.

Is it okay?

Yeah, I can't just don't even look.

Just, you know, just go out and, and create havoc.

Hey, if you can get hit.

No.

Why not?

Let's see if I can grab some money from an attorney, ladies and gentlemen.

I'm not like that.

I wasn't raised that way.

But those type of cars, you know, The Jaguar Mark 2 was.

I remember seeing them we had.

When I was in New York, we opened up a sales office in Connecticut and Greenwich, Connecticut was a stone's throw away.

It was a five minute drive.

Yeah.

And this is where I saw the first time a very high profile Jaguars and Rolls Royces and you know, everybody has a Mercedes Benz.

But these cars were if, If I was 20 years old and I saw that, no offense to your countrymen, but it wouldn't be something like I would have it taped on my wall in my room.

You know, it was.

It's very, very English, very criminal.

Proper, you know, it is more of a.

Your dad's car.

Yeah, well, I mean, talking of Jaguars, I mean, I don't know whether these TV series made it to America, but there was Morris, Inspector Morris with John Thor who drove a red Mark II Jag.

It was notoriously unreliable in real life was that car.

But you mentioned Morse.

Oh, the dark red Mark II Jaguar with the black vinyl roof.

Then when somebody decided to write Endeavour, which was Inspector Morse before he became Inspector Morse, it retro back even more because Sean Evans, who was the lead actor, drove a Series 1 Jaguar Saloon, a black one, which in my opinion was actually far more elegant than the mark 2.

So once again the Jaguar theme was maintained.

And then with John Thor, who before he became Inspector Morse was famously Inspector Regan in the Sweeney and his squad car, although he never drove it because apparently I don't know whether it's the same in the States, I don't know.

But an inspector does not drive his own car or he didn't at the time, especially a member of the Flying Squad and he was chauffeured round in a bronze Ford console gt which theoretically was the cheaper version of the Ford Granada.

I mean some of these cars did exist in America.

The names exist in America.

But once again you mentioned Morris, jag, Endeavor, Jag, the Sweeney, the bronze Ford console.

And the interesting thing is it was well known that the Ford console the.

They hadn't to damage it while filming because it was full of car chases.

They wrote off endless numbers of Mark 2 Jags because apparently villains like Mark 2 Jackie Boys.

But the the Ford console GT had not to be damaged because it was part of Ford's press fleet.

So it hadn't to be done.

They could drive it through a pile of empty cardboard boxes because it didn't damage it, but they hadn't to crash it into anything.

But once again, talking of Fords, once again maybe not made it to America.

And once again, it's the cars.

This is stuck in people's minds.

But you mentioned it earlier on back then when these series were prominent and prevalent and still being made in many respects to promote them, the cars or look alike cars made appearances because there was no such thing as Internet or anything like that.

So the local paper would say come and see such and such a car from such and such a TV series down at your local dealership.

And I conclude it would have had an effect on sales.

People would have wanted to see the car and maybe not that particular model of car, but maybe the cheaper version.

I mean, did it.

I think it was more prevalent in America than in England to have the cars of the TV shows make appearances.

Well, you know, you think Mark, it's an attention grabber.

Yeah.

You know, so here it's something where it's family fun for everyone.

You know, you want to see that car that's in this TV show, you know, and if you're, you're a kid, you're watching it with your family, you know, great way.

Because the other thing is it's an opportunity to hand out sales brochures, a couple of baseball caps, pens, maybe a T shirt, things like that.

So it will be.

Would emphasize to the customer the member of the public visit.

It would emphasize the brand and the model, wouldn't it?

Oh, what a great way to.

Like when Nick was on your show.

Yeah.

You know, and he's dealing with all these movie cars and, and things in that nature, you know.

You know, what a, what a great opportunity to be exposed to everything from the cars to the stars and everything.

But I mean this goes way back from when cars were first started.

You know, the.

Well mentioned Laurel and I.D.

And everybody says a Model T, probably the Model T is more famous than Laurel and id.

Oh, now I, I got a good buddy of mine that he knows a lot about the movie industry and that and works in it.

And with Laurel and Hardy, Hardy was so big that he, they had to have the seat bolted back.

Well, back then the seats, once the seat was put in, in the assembly Line.

Yeah, that was it, you know, but they had to bring the seat back so that the man could drive.

And like I said, if you're 6 foot and you're trying to drive a Model T Ford, your.

Your kneecaps are going to be in your ears.

Yeah.

Whereas Laurel, coming from England, you know, he was.

He was at a proper size where he could drive a Model T Ford comfortably.

Yeah.

But all this stuff goes back to when cars first started hitting the road.

It would be a traffic stopper.

Yeah.

And then as time went on, you know, race car tracks, you know, it's like to see these cars going at lunatic speeds of 50 miles an hour.

You know, it brought everybody there.

And same thing with airplanes.

You know, in the United States after World War I, a lot of these pilots were out of work, so they joined these.

They called them flying circuses.

Yeah.

And, you know, people would see this, and it was like, wow.

So then as what I see with how people get more and more educated, it's like you see it on tv.

Oh, yeah, that's a Chrysler.

That's a Chevy and that.

But then they found that.

Well, put the car in a motion picture and have them torn down.

Like, the.

The most, I would say famous was Lucille Ball and Desi Arness.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And it featured a.

There were two cars.

Hold on, let me look.

I know one was a Lincoln, and I know one was a Mercury.

Yeah.

But it featured them towing a trailer.

Well.

Oh, my God, a trailer.

Sales skyrocketed.

Yeah.

Everybody wanted a trailer, you know, or what.

They're what we call.

We call caravans.

Oh, caravans.

I like that.

I like that.

But it was like that car.

Anytime there was an appearance with Lucy and Desi.

Yeah.

That car and trailer were featured.

Yeah.

And it's.

It's a whole lot.

If you like American comedy from the mid-50s, it's definitely a movie to watch.

Yeah.

On a rainy.

On a rainy day.

But it's funny.

But again, it was a way of bringing the public in.

Same thing I mentioned with the comic book industry.

They put these cars in to get the kids interested in reading the story.

But seeing this card drawn, you know,.

And I suppose there's a theory that with a manufacturer that if the kid likes the car, they'll pester daddy to go and buy one.

Go.

Go and buy One, go and buy one.

That's why there is like the top end model and the bottom end model.

Providing they bought that model of car, the child would be happy and the dad would have got away with maybe not spending quite as much.

Well, you know, it's like my dad, I can remember like when I was 4.

Right.

And it was, it was gray, it was, it was a car.

Yeah.

You know, I didn't, I didn't think much of it.

The back seat was like a cathedral, you know, or four year old.

And then dad bought a 59 Pontiac Catalina.

Yeah.

And he would always say, pepe, he says, this is called a why a track Pontiac.

And he was so proud of that card.

And you know, as a kid, I, I thought it was great.

No seat belts, no nothing.

You know, it was a metal dashboard.

Boom, boom, boom.

Mom and dad would roll the windows up in the winter time and smoke a cigarette.

I'm still here.

It's 71 years old, but.

And then he went and he bought a brand new 66 Mercury Monterey.

That car, loved it.

But he always had good taste with cars.

Yeah.

You know, it's all depending on what the family could afford it.

Now I got a funny story for you with a Ford Granada.

Ford Granada was when Ford came out with that car.

And like in 76, they had the two door and they had the four door.

And the four door, a friend of mine mother had, it was silver, it had a red, had a pinstripe, it had a red crushed velvet interior.

All this car.

It was nice.

Yeah.

Okay.

Even though back then Americans were making crappy cars.

So my buddy asked his mother, can we take this to the racetrack?

Yeah.

And you know, horse racetrack.

And he wanted to show off a couple girls that we were taking and hey, why not?

So we went to the horse races and it was great.

We come back, the car is gone.

Oh, crap in a hat.

Well, anyway, so, you know, we're looking, you know, and it's.

We can't find this stuff.

And this is before, you know, the electric keychain where you click it and you are beep, beep, beep.

You know, your cars around.

This was like, you had to use your eyeballs to see this thing.

So we go to.

In the United States, you have the state police at the horse bricks.

And this is, this is what makes this story funny.

We would.

He goes up to the state trooper and he goes, someone.

And he came from Bayone, New Jersey, and Bail, New Jersey.

They Talk like they got marbles in their mouth.

They're wonderful people, but they do like they got marbles in the mouth.

I go, hey, listen, someone stole my mother's car.

And the trooper says, well, what kind of car was?

He goes, A4 Granada.

And the trooper looked at him.

They go, they stole the fraking Ford group.

Steal a car.

They never found it.

Yeah, they never found the car.

And.

But it's like with that state trooper.

But long story short was that we had to wait until the entire parking lot was empty.

Yeah.

Which meant that it was a good four hours after the race was over.

But never found that car.

Now, we mentioned.

Well, I mean, one we haven't mentioned.

I'll just mention it briefly, was.

I think it was from the Batmobile stable was the Munstermobile, another heavily customized car with a great big exposed dragster.

More than anything else in that car.

When that came out, this is like when Rat Fink was very popular.

You know, the.

The Beatles were exploding the charts.

So you had that.

That influence from Great Britain.

Thank you very much.

And it was, again, it was a draw to watch his TV show.

And then as time was going on, I mean, this car would be in parades.

Yeah.

Well, I've seen photographs like the big Thanksgiving parade here in New York City.

And then I don't know when the grandfather, he had a hot rod made, but it was a gold coffin.

Yeah.

And that was like.

That was, as the kids would say, that was sick.

Yeah, I was like, that was great.

But, you know, again, it's like they use these cars as a draw, and it's all marketing.

It's all money.

It's like, how do you get the sponsors to invest into your show?

Yeah, you know, if you, if, you know, I think if you had something where the person had a rocket pack on his back and zoomed around in roller skates and that drew attention, you would have people knocking down the door wanting to invest in this program.

Yeah.

You know, I think it's safe to say, though, if you look at the modern cars, I don't think a detective that drives a Toyota or a Tesla, I don't think any of those cars are going to achieve the cult status that the cars we've been talking about have achieved.

You mentioned the program.

They mentioned the car.

You mentioned a program today and say, what does such and such a body drive?

And they probably won't have a clue because the cars now compared to back then are so incredibly boring.

It's beyond belief.

There's.

There's a car An American car I like called the Chrysler Crossfire.

Oh yes.

Which is ultimately is a Mercedes Benz.

Right.

I think that's a night that to me stands out.

Yeah.

You know, it's here in the States.

You know, you got all these suv, you know, you got these cars that look like, like the Range Rover which is.

And what you've told me and I have to agree they're not buil like they were years ago.

But I mean I could see like at the end of your street was a jungle.

Yeah.

And you have one of these cars, you know.

But it's, it's to me.

Yeah.

It's one of these things like if the Jones family has it, then you gotta have it.

You know.

My daughter drives a brand new Kia and this, it's a beautiful car.

It's a, a big, big car.

But you know, to me, I don't know.

Chrysler Crossfire, the couple Mercedes.

I like the old like the 78 Mercedes Benz coupe.

Yeah, I bought that.

They're really nice looking but you know, they're passing, they're starting to pass these laws or they want to pass these laws in certain states where you won't be able to drive a fossil fuel engine.

Yeah.

And to me it's like that's going to kill every car show because it's like not everybody can afford to trailer their car to, to a.

An event.

Yeah.

And if it's hooked to the back of an electric car, they might only make it halfway before it goes flat.

You know, I mean I feel, you know, it's like I've heard stories where these companies that have a fleet of electric trucks, they want to go to certain states in this United.

In the United States and they're saying we can't supply the power.

Yeah.

To equipped all these vehicles and that.

You know, but in a way it's, it's like when they had the first, first little race here in the United States from San Francisco to New York where the cars ran on kerosene.

Yeah.

And it, your planning wasn't right and you ran out of gas, you're walking 30 miles to the next gas station.

Or you would have to wait until the train would come in to unload the like the fuel.

Yeah.

You know, so I feel that we're at that, at that point in 100 years everything will be either will be hydrogen or electric or God only knows what.

But you know, you know, I've heard stories where nobody, in 100 years nobody will have their own car.

It's like you cool up a vehicle.

Yeah.

It comes to your.

Your house, you get in it and you go, you know, you won't have the freedom of driving.

I mean, you think about it, Mark, it's like when you're on.

When you're on the expressway or you're on the.

The interstate and, you know, it's like every headlight has a brain and a heart that's powering.

Yeah.

That vehicle, sometimes it's scary, you know, but in 100 years, that's all going to be controlled by the government.

The only thing I can say is, thank God I won't be around then.

But it's safe to say as well, I think the TV shows and their iconic cars really have come to an end.

But for this edition of the Backseat Driver, I'd once again like to thank my colleague over in America, the one they all meet, Joe Pep.

Joe, it's been a pleasure having you back on the backseat driver.

A pleasure.

And I'll tell you for your listeners, bombard Mark with your favorite TV show car, because I would love to see it.

And you know what?

Education is power.

Cheers.

You'll take care.

Thanks very much.

Thank you so much.

From the United States of America.

Take care.

Palace.