Shownotes
She's won a WTCS, she's been 7th at the Olympics, and she's raced in the women's Giro! Maya Kingma joins Kelly, Joanne, and Katie to talk all things swim-bike-run... and bike.
First, she helps us tackle the big question: With so many series now on the calendar, how are pros supposed to choose? Between WTCS, T100, and Ironman races, it’s getting tougher to balance travel, recovery, and top-level performance week after week. And attract viewers.
Then, Maya Kingma tries to explain what the heck is going on with the Dutch federation — who, she says, have chose to remove individual triathlon from their Olympic program?!
- How she balances pro triathlon and pro cycling
- How bike racing changed her approach to triathlon racing
- Why the Dutch have chose to focus solely on the relay — and if this is a bad decision
- But first, apparently even the best face the lap pool conundrum: How do you get a workout in between the breaststrokers?
And you thought it was going to be a slow week.
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Transcripts
All right, Feisties.
Speaker A:Welcome to today's podcast.
Speaker A:It's Kelly o'.
Speaker A:Meara.
Speaker A:I'm here with Joanne Murphy, Hayes affairs, and Maya Kingma is joining us late at night in the Netherlands.
Speaker A:Welcome, Maya.
Speaker B:Thank you.
Speaker B:Thanks for having me.
Speaker A:I feel like.
Speaker A:So apparently we have to start with a correction, because every week what we know.
Speaker A:And this one is not.
Speaker A:It's not a huge one.
Speaker A:I think we think I said the wrong person.
Speaker A:Was on the mixed team relay and the paramix team unit at the world Championships.
Speaker A:It actually was Carson Clough and Owen.
Speaker C:Krevins, and they did great.
Speaker B:They did.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker D:They did awesome.
Speaker D:Kelly's been doing too much talking, too much work.
Speaker D:It is the Kona come down.
Speaker D:That's what that is.
Speaker D:It is.
Speaker D:You know when you've been working so hard for so long and then suddenly you stop and then your body realizes that, like, holy moly.
Speaker D:We have just pushed the boundaries beyond what we needed to do for the last six weeks.
Speaker D:So I am, thankfully, I am still really, really busy heading into the 70.3 world championship.
Speaker D:So my body hasn't really.
Speaker A:You haven't gotten sick yet?
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker D:But I'm expecting around early December to hit the wall.
Speaker B:Really?
Speaker D:To hit the wall?
Speaker A:I. Yeah, I got sick this last week a little bit, and I was like, oh, if only I could have seen this coming.
Speaker A:Like, it comes every year after the last big event of the year.
Speaker A:Anyway, um, but we also told Maya a whole three minutes ago that she was going to have to pick her most exciting race of the year.
Speaker A:So, Maya, you've now been able to think about it.
Speaker A:What is your pick for the most exciting race so far this year?
Speaker B:Yeah, I think.
Speaker B:I think I'm going for Kona woman race.
Speaker B:I think.
Speaker B:I think.
Speaker B:I think with the winner, like, so fight.
Speaker B:I was there was just.
Speaker B:Yeah, it was really nice, I think, of course, super unfortunate for.
Speaker B:Well, for Lucy and.
Speaker B:And Taylor.
Speaker B:I think that's not what anyone wants to see.
Speaker B:And, yeah, I feel for them and for Dan, of course.
Speaker B:But, yeah, having Soulfi winning this, that's really amazing for her.
Speaker A:That's a good pick.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:No debate.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker C:I was like, she approves.
Speaker C:We'll allow it.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Thank you.
Speaker B:Thank you.
Speaker C:We all called that happening, but you.
Speaker C:It was a surprise.
Speaker B:What?
Speaker B:No, I'm just kidding.
Speaker D:We manifested.
Speaker D:Katie, did we?
Speaker A:I don't think we did.
Speaker C:I. I'm still just, like.
Speaker C:I know we've already talked this over, like, many times, but when I think of just, like, how big their country is and to have four Norwegians on the World Championship podium out of six.
Speaker A:Spots, it's like, well, and here's my question, you guys, because I was just doing like a 70.3 preview for somebody else this morning.
Speaker A:What?
Speaker A:Do you think they're going to win again at 70.3 worlds, or do you think it's just like, too, too many?
Speaker C:Casey, I would not be as confident with, like, choosing solvay in the 70.3 for the women's race.
Speaker C:Not because I don't think she's capable of it.
Speaker C:I just think it'd be really.
Speaker C:It'd be a really hard double to pull off those wins.
Speaker C:I don't know if I'd say Casper either for the 70.3, but I could put like a Norwegian.
Speaker A:Right?
Speaker A:They've had a longer.
Speaker C:A generalization.
Speaker A:They've had like a longer break between their Ironman World Championships.
Speaker C:And yeah, that's also so true.
Speaker A:I will say, yeah, I was doing this preview and every person was like, they'll either not finish or they could do super well.
Speaker A:Because, like, post Kona, you're like, I don't know.
Speaker A:Depends on where they're at emotionally.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker D:Kona is so different, though.
Speaker D:Like, and.
Speaker D:And the thing is with the 70.3 worlds, they're going to race it like it's an Olympic distance race.
Speaker D:Like, there is no doubt about it.
Speaker D:Maya smiling there, like, even at Ironman, like, when you think about it, the standard is so different now.
Speaker B:It's like.
Speaker D:And all these athletes coming through the Olympic ranks, all the short course athletes coming through, they are creating such a different dynamic that I think it is.
Speaker D:It is wide open.
Speaker D:I actually don't think we can predict who could potentially be on the podium.
Speaker D:I know who I'd love to see on the podium, but I don't think I'm going to give any insight because it just didn't work the last time.
Speaker D:And I really want to take.
Speaker A:I bet I could guess.
Speaker A:I bet I could.
Speaker B:I could.
Speaker A:I could manifest this for you.
Speaker D:Yeah, manifest it, manifest it.
Speaker D:But I just think, like, even if you look at how the racing unfolded in the men's side and in the women's side, like, it's just.
Speaker D:It's fast, it's hard.
Speaker D:They'll risk the blow up.
Speaker D:At least that's what it looks like from where I'm standing.
Speaker D:They'll take the risk of blowing up or not finishing potentially.
Speaker D:Maybe I'm completely wrong, but it's just.
Speaker D:It's insane.
Speaker D:And there's so many people.
Speaker D:There are so Many people.
Speaker A:Yeah, I was going to say.
Speaker A:So here's the other big question that's been like kind of buzzing in the.
Speaker A:There are a lot of.
Speaker A:I don't know what the word would be but like not starters already.
Speaker A:Like out of the 60, there's already like 23 on the women's field or something who have said they're not going to race.
Speaker A:Do you guys.
Speaker A:And people are.
Speaker A:There's like a lot of opinions out there, like, oh, that's bad.
Speaker A:Like we should, like we shouldn't have half the field not starting.
Speaker A:Like still going to be a really big field though for 70.3.
Speaker A:It's going to be something like 40 or 50 athletes.
Speaker A:What do you guys think?
Speaker A:Do you think you have an obligation to show up or do you think it's like.
Speaker A:No, it's just sort of is what it is.
Speaker A:Katie Shaking.
Speaker C:I don't think there's an obligation to show up when the calendars are so intertwined of like it's the athlete's choice what they're going to focus on.
Speaker C:And obviously like Kona was a big focus.
Speaker C:The T100, like final might be a focus.
Speaker C:And whichever standings you're kind of like the most competitive in as a spectator, that kind of like stinks because you always just want to see all of the highest ranked athletes competing against each other.
Speaker C:But I think because of the schedule conflicts, like, I mean would anybody want it like you just did an Ironman, like now to race another world championship at a high level.
Speaker C:I think I can see all sides of it where like some athletes might be just like, oh, I'm done after Kona.
Speaker C:Like that was, that was everything.
Speaker A:But some people are also turning around from WTCS, from Wolligong and coming to 74.3World and then P100 final is the week after.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:You know, but I think that, I think world triathlon athletes are a little bit more.
Speaker C:Maybe I'm just speaking with a bias here but like we're so used to doing a crazy amount of events a year and going like dashing around basically the globe to do all these races.
Speaker C:So I don't feel like it's that unfamiliar of a territory.
Speaker C:Whereas like when you're doing Ironman, you're racing a lot more limited time.
Speaker C:So it's not quite.
Speaker C:You get kind of used to like having a little more space.
Speaker C:Maybe, maybe that's incorrect.
Speaker C:I don't know.
Speaker B:I agree with you with the program though.
Speaker B:I think it's way too much and I think triathlon is biting herself in the ass with this bit because there are so many races and every brand wants to be a series.
Speaker B:And I think that's not helping because I think a lot of world triathlon athletes want to do a 70.3 or want to do a 200, but it's almost impossible to combine.
Speaker B:I think you see athletes trying to do it.
Speaker B:Some might succeed.
Speaker B:But even, like, if you look at the calendar for next year, WTS series, for me, it's going to be impossible to really participate.
Speaker B:It's way too much.
Speaker B:It's too expensive.
Speaker B:It's too much.
Speaker B:Like 10 races.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:And I don't know how many races you have to do to like, count for the series, but if that's going to be less than 6, 7, then it makes no sense to have 10 races because then you have going to be so many races where not the good athletes show up.
Speaker B:And.
Speaker B:Yeah, so I think it's quite good that 200 is going to change their thing for next year and maybe that gives some spice, right.
Speaker A:That there are fewer reasons.
Speaker B:If you look even at some of.
Speaker D:The racing that like, say, Cap Matthews went all in on the pro series and she did the T100 last year, but, like, her race schedule was insane.
Speaker D:She barely raced this year.
Speaker D:Like, she literally focused on the pro series.
Speaker D:Laura Philip was the same before Kona.
Speaker D:She had three wins from three races and literally that was it.
Speaker D:She was not racing.
Speaker D:So definitely the load.
Speaker D:I think that because everyone is trying to be a series, everyone now has to try and be really smart.
Speaker D:The athletes have to really pick the races and the locations and the travel aspect of it is.
Speaker D:Is absolutely huge as well.
Speaker D:And you think about, like, how.
Speaker D:How we feel after Kona Kelly, like, I'm still wrecked.
Speaker D:I mean, I know I worked at this weekend.
Speaker D:Weekend.
Speaker D:I'm still broken heading into the next.
Speaker B:You guys go on.
Speaker A:You were just.
Speaker A:Well, I was just.
Speaker A:Well, you said all the.
Speaker A:I was then trying to count because they just came up out with the pro series schedule today and I was just trying to count how many there are while you're talking and I got up to 50 and I lost count.
Speaker A:Are there 50 pro series races next year?
Speaker B:No.
Speaker A:Crazy.
Speaker A:That can't be.
Speaker D:Pro race, not pro series.
Speaker D:Iron man pro series, but maybe races, but not pro series.
Speaker D:Because there was.
Speaker D:Wasn't there 17 or 18 this year?
Speaker C:I can't remember.
Speaker D:Off the top.
Speaker B:Yeah, that's.
Speaker A:That's like.
Speaker A:That seems too many.
Speaker A:That can't be right.
Speaker A:I was like, what?
Speaker A:Yeah, but.
Speaker A:Yeah, but there are a bunch of WTCs next year.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:There's like more than there were this year.
Speaker A:T100 is going down.
Speaker A:Pro series schedule just came out.
Speaker A:It is a lot.
Speaker D:But can I just come back and ask you as.
Speaker D:As athletes, can I just ask with regards to people not turning off to The Iron Man 70.3.
Speaker D:So if I.
Speaker D:If I was an athlete that would say there was two slots at a race for the World championship for a professional athlete and I was third and I didn't get my slot and I really wanted to go.
Speaker D:And then I saw that the athlete that got first place in my race decided not to go.
Speaker D:I'd be really annoyed.
Speaker D:So how does that work then for the athletes that are now had the opportunity to qualify, didn't quite get it, but the person that took their slot at that race is now not racing.
Speaker B:Do you.
Speaker A:Do you think it should then be made available?
Speaker B:I don't know.
Speaker B:That's the question.
Speaker D:Like, Katie, how would you feel if that was your situation?
Speaker C:I'm gonna go with a little bit of a cutthroat response in the sense that if you wanted that spot, then you should have earned the spot and gone.
Speaker C:Like, if you didn't beat that person.
Speaker C:It's their choice whether they take the spot you have.
Speaker A:Like, it is.
Speaker A:I will say that's true.
Speaker B:That's true.
Speaker A:So I do think sometimes people are harsh to people who, you know, like drop out of the Olympics race or whatever.
Speaker A:Like, it's their choice.
Speaker A:Like their race.
Speaker A:They earned it.
Speaker A:They can do whatever they want with it.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:Like, you should have been the one to qualify.
Speaker B:So true.
Speaker B:I don't know.
Speaker C:Wow.
Speaker D:Champion.
Speaker D:I'm not an athlete.
Speaker A:It is also going to be.
Speaker A:It's still even with some of the not starts.
Speaker A:And I'm sure we'll have more in the next week or so of people pulling out.
Speaker A:It's still like 45 or 50.
Speaker A:It's still gonna be the biggest 70.3 worlds field ever.
Speaker A:And I.
Speaker A:Okay, Joanne, you're correct.
Speaker A:It was like, it's 18 Pro Series races next year.
Speaker A:I don't know where this list I was looking at, it must be all the prospects.
Speaker A:50 seemed like too many.
Speaker A:So.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker A:But what do you guys as athletes, though, when you're looking at a start list and you're like, these is who all my competition is.
Speaker A:But then you don't know who's actually going to start.
Speaker A:Is that stressful?
Speaker B:I think it depends a bit on what kind of race it is.
Speaker B:I think in the WTS race, it's really like race depending if you miss a good swimmer or you miss a good biker or there's a good biker but a bad swimmer or it can really change the dynamics.
Speaker B:I think in, in a longer distance, it's.
Speaker B:It's less important, but it depends on what your goals are in this race as well.
Speaker C:Yeah, I feel like you look at, like I'll look at start listening and like originally when it first comes out and you're like, oh, yay, like these people are going to be like, good for me.
Speaker C:Or you have like a reaction like, oh, shoot, like that person, like that person's racing.
Speaker C:And.
Speaker C:And so then like, if some of.
Speaker C:If so from my experience, like, I always enjoyed when there was a strong swim cyclist combination on the star list.
Speaker C:So then when that changes, I don't feel like it's like a big impact.
Speaker C:It's just kind of like you're like, ah, man, I wish they were there.
Speaker C:Like, like, I don't.
Speaker C:It's not like any like, bad feelings for the athletes.
Speaker C:It was just like, oh, you had, like, looked at it and kind of had a different takeaway initially than maybe what it ended up being once the start list got finalized.
Speaker C:And kind of similarly, I think not looking at as an athlete side but as the spectator side.
Speaker C:That's also how I feel is like when you first look at it, you're like, oh, man, this is going to be amazing.
Speaker C:And then it like gets to the aspect of it and you're like, well, this is still really good, but, like, it's a little different than what it looked like originally.
Speaker B:Yeah, sure.
Speaker A:I think that's obviously like the problem the T100 was having, right?
Speaker A:And like, I think the problem a lot of the whole, like all these, like, to your point, all the different brands with all their series and all their races, they're having this problem of they want to promote and then half the people don't start well.
Speaker C:And it's hard too because as an athlete, like, you are making decisions kind of like on the fly, like at the beginning of the season, I may have different expectations of what I want to do than like five months down the line or even athletes who started like Iron man, like Ironman Worlds and were like, I'm going to race 70.3 and then you get done Ironman Worlds or Wollongong World Champs, and you're like, oh, I'm like, like this now does not seem like such a great idea anymore.
Speaker C:I know, like, sometimes I would feel that way with Super Try.
Speaker C:You, like, get to the end of the season and you'd have the whole series of super tri left and you're like, oh, wow.
Speaker C:Like, this is a lot left on, like, left on the agenda.
Speaker C:And some people will just keep rolling on and others it's like, I need to tap out now.
Speaker A:On that note, the do buy the T100 start list for their grand final came out this week.
Speaker A:So that's like the first.
Speaker A:The first hit we have at it.
Speaker A:It does have some pretty big names on it.
Speaker A:Like Lucy Charles is still on it, Julie Darren Taylor, nib.
Speaker A:But this is again, like, I don't even know if they're going to start 74.
Speaker A:I don't know who's going to start what.
Speaker A:But right now we have that start list just out and they're trying to build buzz.
Speaker C:When does that often get, like, finalized?
Speaker C:Like T100 seems like it just gets finalized.
Speaker C:Like, basically when people are there, right.
Speaker A:They'Re like, they like, look around and they're like, who's here, guys?
Speaker C:And how far apart?
Speaker C:I should know this, but I didn't look at the calendar between Dubai and 70.3 worlds.
Speaker B:What's the a week?
Speaker D:I didn't realize it was so close.
Speaker A:Yep, it's 11-15-16 in Dubai and it's 11-8-9th for 70.3 world.
Speaker A:So.
Speaker D:Okay, interesting.
Speaker A:So maybe some people are hoping, Joanne, what you were hoping, that they're just gonna ride it through and then their body will break down after.
Speaker D:I think it's slightly different if you're an athlete now, Kelly, if you've gone Kona 70.3 worlds and then T100, like, holy moly.
Speaker D:That's insane.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker C:Well then people have all different strategies too with like, what they.
Speaker C:How they've been training.
Speaker C:So it's like what your fitness level will be at by the time you get to like, your last races is pretty dependent on the rest of the schedule and what the like a races have been.
Speaker A:You're either like building up or you peaked and you're just kind of like riding it all the way down.
Speaker C:Exactly.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker D:And at this, at this point, and maybe Maya, you might be able to answer this question at this point.
Speaker D:Let's say if you had raised like three big races, are you look or you had potentially three big races on your schedule close together towards the end of the season.
Speaker D:Are you now looking at next year already and kind of saying, well, actually a race has come out in February that like, if I race dubai after racing.
Speaker D:70.3 worlds are in your case, one of the WTC WTS races.
Speaker D: of the traps really quick in: Speaker D:Like, is that a consideration or is it not?
Speaker B:Yeah, for me it was.
Speaker B:I think, I think I'm always athlete.
Speaker B:That's like, I think.
Speaker B:And that's also a bit of the downside of so many races that athletes are not always like at their best at the best, like best races.
Speaker B:I mean where you're talking about now, It's a final 200.
Speaker B:You want to be your best, but you also want to be your best at the world champs F2, 3.
Speaker B:But you also want to be your best at the world Champs Kona or Nice.
Speaker B:So it's.
Speaker B:Yeah, I think, I think it's too much.
Speaker B:You cannot be at your best at all those races.
Speaker B:So it's what Katie says it depends on what your main focus is going to be.
Speaker B:But I think that's also a bit of a shame for the events that people say like, okay, I will race it, but it will be like a step up to the other race or will be surviving from the other race.
Speaker B:So for me it would also be thinking about, okay, but I want to perform next year as well.
Speaker B:And you want like a decent build up to the next season because for me I've always had points where I was like, I want to improve this.
Speaker B:So next season I want to work a bit more on this or a bit more on that.
Speaker B:But you need also time for that.
Speaker B:So yeah, I would, I would definitely think about it and, and pick.
Speaker A:Yeah, well, and then like Maya, have you.
Speaker B:Oh, sorry.
Speaker A:I was going to ask her if she had already kind of ended her season for.
Speaker B:Yeah, it's, yeah, summer holidays.
Speaker B:Yeah, exactly.
Speaker B:At off season.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker D:Off season in full swing.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker C:So what does your off season look like?
Speaker C:Like what does your schedule look like now?
Speaker C:You went on your holidays?
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker B:Yeah, I, I had my last like a cycling race three weeks ago.
Speaker B:Then I had two weeks of like really holiday.
Speaker B:We went by car to France and go to the mountains.
Speaker B:So I, I just always feel that I want to still be active.
Speaker B:So I did a lot of hiking, a bit of trail running, some cycling still.
Speaker B:I did two swims.
Speaker B:But yeah, it's.
Speaker B:It's more like, ah, the weather's really good today.
Speaker B:I want to go for a ride or.
Speaker B:Okay, we're close to like a beautiful mountaintop and we want to climb it.
Speaker B:So it's more like that and now I'm in my third week and I started training a little bit.
Speaker B:So it's just easy but yeah, a bit more structured and I'll start next week.
Speaker D:And Maya, how important is it that when you do take that downtime and it's activity that there's like some fun and social aspect to it and, and just enjoying life and sport for what it is as opposed to focusing on watts and figures and numbers and whatever else you have to look at as a professional athlete.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Now I think it's really important.
Speaker B:I think if people follow me a bit on social media, I think I always try to show that I still want to enjoy even if I am in a busy training period.
Speaker B:I think as even Tommy called me like a hiker biker.
Speaker B:Uh, I just like to go with the careful bike or.
Speaker B:Yeah, just longer easy rides and explore a bit because I really believe like you have like your important high intensity training sessions, you want to be good there.
Speaker B:Food has to be good as.
Speaker B:Yeah, you have to be well in this training sessions, you have to prepare them well, but you also have easier days or long endurance days where it's more about just making easy hours.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:And I believe you can do that in different ways.
Speaker B:So I try to enjoy them.
Speaker B:But in the off season it's also not that you have to think about, oh, but if I'm hiking a bit too long today, I still have this training session tomorrow that's important.
Speaker B:And for me, especially in Europe or Netherlands, it's really hard to find a decent swimming pool.
Speaker B:And yeah, it's really hard.
Speaker B:So.
Speaker B:So now it was just really nice to go somewhere and not think about, oh no.
Speaker B:But the only swimming pool somewhere nearby is one and a half hour drive or something.
Speaker B:We didn't have to think about it now.
Speaker B:So that's also really, really nice.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker C:How long?
Speaker A:Why is it so hard?
Speaker A:Wait, now I want to know why they don't have pools.
Speaker A:Katie, I'm very confused by that conference.
Speaker A:Calm down.
Speaker D:We'll have to get in here.
Speaker C:I want to know how long did you swim?
Speaker C:What is this?
Speaker C:What was the length of your two swims?
Speaker C:I did, I'm doing a study.
Speaker B:Oh, okay.
Speaker B:Interesting.
Speaker B:I did three and a half K, I think around an hour.
Speaker C:Okay.
Speaker C:I feel like, because I was just talking to some coaches today about our athletes and like we do like a little bit now going into the coaching side, like we do a little bit of choice for the off season of like we just want you to swim, swim, bike, run and a few times A week.
Speaker C:But I put like parameters for the bike and the run.
Speaker C:But with swimming, I'm like, nobody's gonna over swim.
Speaker C:Like, there's no way they're gonna go and be like, let's do 6K today.
Speaker C:Like, I don't think that happened.
Speaker C:So this was my, this was me just making sure that I was on the right path with that.
Speaker B:Yeah, okay.
Speaker B:Sometimes I want to overswim.
Speaker B:And this is also to do with your question, Joanne, because I think when a swimming pool is nice and there's not 10 people in the other 25 meter lane, it's so nice.
Speaker B:And then I love swimming again.
Speaker B:But when.
Speaker B:Yeah, like swimming, I think in the Netherlands, I think we have some, we have quite a lot of pools.
Speaker B:Not as much as I think you see in USA or Australia or whatever, but most of them are 25 meter pools.
Speaker B:So they're, they're small, sometimes even just five lanes.
Speaker B:And everyone in that city, or cities or small country, like cities around it has to swim in that pool.
Speaker B:And most of the times it's just open for three hours a day.
Speaker B:So one and a half hours in the morning, one and a half hours in the evening.
Speaker B:So it's chaos, it's.
Speaker B:And yeah, there's not really like many rules about.
Speaker B:Okay, sorry, but this is a really slow lane and you're swimming butterfly.
Speaker B:Maybe you shouldn't do that.
Speaker B:Or this is a really fast lane and people are overtaking you every 50 meters.
Speaker B:Maybe you should like go one lane to the left.
Speaker B:They don't really do that.
Speaker B:So it's even, even.
Speaker A:See, this is interesting because this happens obviously at like here in the, like at the community, local pools, but not.
Speaker A:But they're still like the nice pools where the real swimmers swim and the Olympians swim.
Speaker A:We don't realize you're stuck in the.
Speaker C:Yeah, well, it's funny because we don't.
Speaker D:We don't have that either.
Speaker D:We don't have the Olympians either.
Speaker D:You know, we have a mix of private pools and community pools and you could have the, the, the, the people who are doing the breaststroke in the fast lane now.
Speaker D:It is policed a little bit, with respect, but it's very difficult.
Speaker B:Like, very difficult.
Speaker C:Yeah, well, it's funny because I went to a pool in Glasgow, Scotland, and like, it was a very nice pool, but literally every single swimmer was swimming, had a breaststroke to the point where I, like, asked the lifeguard, I said, can I swim freestyle in here?
Speaker C:And he's like, yeah, but like, I thought like, there was nobody doing that.
Speaker C:But I think that maybe this is why you're so good at open water.
Speaker C:Maya, though, maybe.
Speaker B:No, no, no.
Speaker C:No training at the public pools.
Speaker B:Because this is what they tell me if I, if they ask me, all right, you have a good training session.
Speaker B:And I said, well, it was really hard to do my training session today.
Speaker B:And then it's, oh, that's good practice for open water swimming.
Speaker B:It's.
Speaker B:No, no, sorry, it's not.
Speaker C:You don't like that.
Speaker B:Want to be super kind.
Speaker B:So, like.
Speaker B:But also, my training says I want a half hour.
Speaker B:And if you have to explain to people, like, how to turn or where to wait.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:You don't always have time for it and, and sometimes you just have to wait to find the spots where you can dive in.
Speaker B:So I'm, I'm, I'm.
Speaker B:I'm.
Speaker B:Yeah, maybe I'm sometimes a bit too kind in the pool, but it's, it's hard.
Speaker D:You need to channel a bit more Katie's the Fest and be cutthroat.
Speaker B:Turning.
Speaker D:Up to the World Championship with Smash.
Speaker A:I, I will say, I, like, every time I've been to France and I've had this problem at the pools, I literally was like, where do all the Olympians swim?
Speaker A:There must be some secret pool for all the serious athletes.
Speaker A:Because I was like, I did.
Speaker A:I was like, I don't understand how.
Speaker A:I don't understand.
Speaker A:Like, Cassandra cannot be swimming in this pool.
Speaker A:Like, that is crazy.
Speaker B:But I guess, yeah, sometimes I think, I think it depends, like, if your federation or your team or club, whatever, is from a pretty high level and they rent, like, they book some lanes, that really helps.
Speaker B:But, yeah, we don't really have that.
Speaker C:So I think it's more common than what people think is professionals just trying to find space in a, like, normal public pool in, like.
Speaker C:Yeah, a lot of maybe not the most high performance looking environments.
Speaker C:There's, there's, yeah, there's quite a lot.
Speaker B:Of that, I think.
Speaker B:So, yeah.
Speaker D:Email the pool and say, hey, I'm a double Olympian and I'm coming to your beautiful town or city and I would love the opportunity to train in your pool.
Speaker D:You can use me for your photographs in my.
Speaker D:In the pool, if you wish, and I will stand outside your pool and endorse it, but can I just have a lane to myself for two hours, please?
Speaker D:I mean, surely you guys can do that.
Speaker B:I tried that.
Speaker B:I tried that.
Speaker B:No, it doesn't work.
Speaker B:No.
Speaker B:When I left in another city, I was like, swimming, not in my main city, which was Quite a big city.
Speaker B:They had two swimming pools, but it was not possible to swim there.
Speaker B:So I went to a little village, they had a little small swimming pool.
Speaker B:And it was that time actually quite nice because the water temperature was super warm.
Speaker B:Like it was really like a elderly and children pool.
Speaker B:But it was good because it was like in the last preps for Tokyo.
Speaker B:So it was absolutely fine and they all loved it.
Speaker B:You know, they even sent me pictures from.
Speaker B:Yeah, we're watching the Tokyo race and it was super cool.
Speaker B:They were all so kind, but they're also like, yeah, but this is.
Speaker B:Oh, cool, we always swim here.
Speaker B:So.
Speaker B:And they only had that.
Speaker B:They had two and a half hours openings, hours in the morning.
Speaker B:So that was quite a lot.
Speaker B:So I think that made also that there was more relaxed environment, more relaxed atmosphere around it, but still only two and a half hours.
Speaker B:And some people would come at seven, some would come at eight, some would come at nine.
Speaker B:So there wasn't two hours free to give me a lane.
Speaker B:And I always say, I don't want a free lane for myself actually, but I want it like more for more people because also where I live now, there are a lot of triathletes here.
Speaker B:But this is what Katie says.
Speaker B:We're all looking for a place and a moment to have a good swim.
Speaker C:Yeah, but what do you think?
Speaker C:This is the last of the pool, maybe.
Speaker A:I think we're doing an entire episode about pool etiquette now.
Speaker C:But what do you think?
Speaker C:So, like when we went to Hamburg and we did like the double wide German lanes and like they're like basically two to four lanes width.
Speaker C:And at first when I saw that, I was like, this is like silly.
Speaker C:But then you actually can move through people like so much easier.
Speaker C:Like in that.
Speaker B:What do you.
Speaker C:What do you think about that?
Speaker C:So, like, is it good or bad?
Speaker B:You mean like you don't have one normal lane, but it's three lanes wide?
Speaker C:Well, like it's like when they take like when they're not single lanes, it's more like the whole section in the middle.
Speaker C:I always think of Hamburg.
Speaker A:I've seen that in like Canada.
Speaker A:Yeah, but I've seen that in like Canada, Australia too.
Speaker A:And you're supposed to like, it makes it easier to pass because it makes it.
Speaker B:Yeah, I think we tried that.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:In the Netherlands they tried it during COVID because they were like, yeah, if you swim in one lane out and then in the other back, you have more space in between, so it's safer.
Speaker B:But it's really hard because for faster swimmers, you have twice as much or even three times as much people in your lane, which you have to take over.
Speaker B:And then they are also overtaking people.
Speaker B:And those are also overtaking people.
Speaker B:So it got way too complex, I think.
Speaker B:Yeah, okay.
Speaker B:But it depends if you're with Tyler.
Speaker B:Are we done?
Speaker A:Any more swim conversations?
Speaker C:Anyone wanted to know about pools?
Speaker C:This is the.
Speaker A:Yeah, we have.
Speaker B:Any more swim thoughts.
Speaker D:Suggestions for swim pools around the world in the next episode, please.
Speaker C:And we thought it was a slow week.
Speaker C:This was riveting.
Speaker A:Before we ask Maya more questions about swimming?
Speaker A:No, about cycling.
Speaker A:Is there any other results this week?
Speaker A:We want to talk about any other news this week.
Speaker A:We obviously it was like you just kind of joked a little bit of a slow week.
Speaker D:Well, there was plenty of people who still raced and a lot of people that were racing are heading to the 70.3 World Championship.
Speaker D:A lot of interestingly a lot of the Olympians were racing which was, which was interesting.
Speaker D:So were they racing to taper or racing to win?
Speaker D:That's the question.
Speaker A:I did see like, like Jennifer Arnold, she did WTCS in Wollongong.
Speaker A:Then she went in one like a half in Florianopolis and then she's headed to Marbella next week.
Speaker A:And that's just, that's just.
Speaker A:That's.
Speaker D:That is a lot.
Speaker D:Even the travel of that is insane.
Speaker A:That's a lot.
Speaker A:So but that was the only one that, that was the only one that really like jumped out to me, I think.
Speaker C:Yeah, I was excited this because we had the US Performance Center Draft Legal Festival here which is race but all a lot of our athletes.
Speaker C:We had five athletes racing there and it was also tied to NCAA race and the start list for.
Speaker C:Because now every draft legal.
Speaker C:Not every draft legal race, but there's a lot more draft legal open races.
Speaker C:So anybody can now do them in the US no matter.
Speaker C:You don't have to be a certain age or demographic for which is exciting.
Speaker C:So we had.
Speaker C:Yeah, they had a two open races where it's like collegiate club teams but also our athletes race and then tied NCAA and the start list was like women had about 30 athletes and the men had about 60 athletes on it for it.
Speaker C:Which is very good for the U.S. for anyone listening, does it get stressful.
Speaker A:Like, like one of the things when they have open draft legal races like in France and stuff is I don't know that I trust every random triathlete in a draft pack.
Speaker A:Does that get stressful to just go and do like a local draft legal.
Speaker C:But People think that, like, world triathlon races is any different.
Speaker C:Like, so, like, at least you are.
Speaker D:At least you have good bike handling skills.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker C:That's why you also just need to put yourself in the right positions within the bike packs.
Speaker C:But I think, well, now that.
Speaker C:So the Continental cup level of World Triathlon, for every other country, this is.
Speaker C:This has been the same, but for the US Is different, that you no longer need an elite license to be entered into a Continental cup race.
Speaker C:And so, yeah, there's a lot of athletes who are doing it for the first time, but I feel like you gotta learn somewhere.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker A:I just.
Speaker A:I mean, this is.
Speaker A:Again, okay, this is my cutthroat statement.
Speaker A:I am all for people learning.
Speaker A:I just don't want them to, like, learn me.
Speaker B:Into me.
Speaker C:Was Claremont.
Speaker C:And, you know, in an elite race, like, I got my elite license for, like, at the time that we needed it, because now we don't need it anymore.
Speaker C:Oh, how things have changed over the years.
Speaker C:But.
Speaker C:But, like, I had gotten it for non draft races, and then.
Speaker C:So then the very first race that I ever did draft legal was in Claremont, and it just happened to be.
Speaker C: That was in: Speaker C:So, like, all these Olympians were racing this race.
Speaker C:And I remember Alicia K. Because she was already established at that point, and it was my first race, and she's like, katie, what are you doing?
Speaker C:And I, like, answered, like, I have no idea.
Speaker C:And she's just like, okay.
Speaker C:Like, well, there's nothing more to be said here.
Speaker C:But.
Speaker C:But, yeah, that.
Speaker C:I mean.
Speaker C:Yeah, you kind of just have to.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker C:I think it's like your first group ride.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:And I think it's really good that they do it because I think it's a.
Speaker B:It's a bit of a different discipline if it's draft legal or not.
Speaker B:I mean, I. I really like it when it's draft legal, and it's really different thing to.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Race tt.
Speaker B:It's different.
Speaker B:I think my more or less first draft legal was even one of my first triathlons, because we do draft legal more or less immediately from junior on.
Speaker B:But I remember it was like, I think my second triathlon, and it was the championships, and I was in the front after the swim, and then some other riders came back with me on the bike, and I remember I was like.
Speaker B:I think we were with three or four, and I was sitting at the back, and then I just, like, they were all in line and I was just riding around them.
Speaker B:And then go to the front and riding next to the one at the front.
Speaker B:And I said, okay, I want to work as well, but how fast do I ride on front?
Speaker C:Yes.
Speaker B:I had no idea what to do.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:And they were just looking at me like, I don't know.
Speaker B:Just go as fast as you can.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker C:I think that's how we learn because there's not that many opportunities otherwise, really.
Speaker C:And.
Speaker B:Sure, sure.
Speaker B:So fine.
Speaker A:I'm just thinking of the number of people I crashed into on my first group ride, which was a high number of people.
Speaker D:I didn't crash into anybody.
Speaker D:I got crashed into and knocked off my bike on one of our training team.
Speaker D:Training things away years ago and scarred for life.
Speaker D:Scarred.
Speaker C:Honestly, you kind of just hope not to be in the packs with the people with the.
Speaker C:With the use of the.
Speaker B:Yeah, but that's also why they have to learn it.
Speaker B:Which, to be fair.
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah, it is.
Speaker A:Usually.
Speaker A:I.
Speaker A:Now, it was usually the men who were causing a lot of problems on these group rides, to be fair.
Speaker A:Okay, I've seen some.
Speaker D:Kelly, now, don't start.
Speaker A:I don't know if they have.
Speaker A:I don't know if they have this in the Netherlands, but, you know, like the lunch work, group ride and everybody goes out and like hammers for an hour.
Speaker D:You see the difference is in the Netherlands, everybody cycles everywhere.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker D:So they're riding their bikes from when they're like a year old.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah, that's true.
Speaker C:But I also, it's funny because we have our athletes do a lot of the group rides as well because of this exact reason.
Speaker C:It's the most unpredictable and like the effort is hard.
Speaker C:That is the most like draft legal racing that you're going to get.
Speaker A:There's a word for that that Sarah Chu taught me.
Speaker A:It's like so tastic.
Speaker A:It means like unpredictable.
Speaker A:Up and down, I think.
Speaker A:Anyway.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:Maya, what do you do?
Speaker C:Group rides for training or not really?
Speaker C:Well, like.
Speaker C:Yeah, what's.
Speaker B:What's.
Speaker C:What are you doing?
Speaker C:Let's get into that.
Speaker A:What are you doing?
Speaker A:All right, let's transition to Maya.
Speaker B:Well, to answer your first question, I don't do a lot of group rides, but that's also.
Speaker B:Yeah, I don't know because my training program is just like, it was really pinpointed to me.
Speaker B:And especially when you're a triathlete, there's so much you have to combine and time.
Speaker B:And especially when I finished studying, I was so happy that I had time.
Speaker B:So when it was raining in like around 12, but the sun was shining around 3, I could go at 3.
Speaker B:And I wanted to keep that flexibility also a bit.
Speaker B:And I think what I noticed a lot with group rides is that they go too fast because if I have an easy ride, I want to do it really easy because most likely I have a harder training session earlier today, later that day or the next day, or I had it the day before and I want to recover.
Speaker B:So.
Speaker B:But what I did when I was younger and wanted to improve my bike skills was joining like.
Speaker B:So in the Netherlands, cycling is quite big and you have like almost every city, bigger city has like this kind of training races.
Speaker B:So you go there on a weekday in the evening and they have like a track or even maybe on a, like a company grounds, parking place, whatever.
Speaker B:They close the roads more or less.
Speaker B:It's not professional but.
Speaker B:And you can just do a group rides, but it's a race.
Speaker B:And where I lived in the south of the Netherlands, you had like a small village that had like a cycling track.
Speaker B:So it was not like an indoor track, but still like a track.
Speaker B:So it had a little bit of incline.
Speaker B:But they did races in the whole winter on Sunday mornings.
Speaker B:And it was all mixed.
Speaker B:So most were men, but they were all cyclists.
Speaker B:And I just forced myself to like, I'm going to go there and I'm going to try and learn and ride in this group, see how cyclists ride.
Speaker B:Uh, so I really wanted to, to learn that when I started throttle.
Speaker A:Tell us about this whole racing professionally cycling this year and how you got that opportunity, how that came about.
Speaker A:Um, Cause I felt like it was just sort of like all of a sudden like, why is racing as a person.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker B:Well, for me it was, it was a bit more roller coaster.
Speaker B:But it was also for me very sudden when it, when it, yeah, when it went that way.
Speaker B:I think like what I just told like when I was younger I, I did some cycling training races and I was like, oh, but cycling is also really nice because before I did triathlon I was open water swimmer and I really liked open water because it's more tactics.
Speaker B:It's not a time trial.
Speaker B:You do it with others.
Speaker B:You can like decide if you're going to go hard from start or not, if you want to take people with you or not.
Speaker B:It's.
Speaker B:I really like the tactics and the dynamics in, in that.
Speaker B:And then we try it on short distance when it's draft legal.
Speaker B:Of course you have that as well.
Speaker B:And that there was a component I liked Like Katie said, I was also really happy when I saw Katie or Flora or athletes like that.
Speaker B:Taylor Spyhook.
Speaker B:We're still on the start list and like, okay, we don't even have to look like we know what we want to do and what we want to try.
Speaker B:Just learned, of course, I mean that.
Speaker B:Yeah, I just like that.
Speaker B:That you have, like an erase plan and it's not just, okay, go steady state and be as fast as possible.
Speaker B:I don't know.
Speaker B:That was not our goal.
Speaker B:We wanted to go fast at the first two laps because we want to make a gap and then continue with riding.
Speaker B:So I've always liked that aspect and I think especially when.
Speaker B:Yeah, well, I got the message.
Speaker B:There was.
Speaker B:Yeah, it was a coincidence.
Speaker B:After the Paris Olympics, I did a podcast with a former Dutch cyclist, but he was also, like, more for the national.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Radio, television, like, doing a podcast about the Olympic Games.
Speaker B:They invited me to just talk about.
Speaker B:Shortly about the Olympics.
Speaker B:Not because triathlon is that big, but also because we swam in the river and there was a big issue.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:So it got a bit more attention than normally, but because he was a former cyclist, he.
Speaker B:He watched the race and he was also like, oh, but your cornering was good.
Speaker B:And it was really interesting to see this racing.
Speaker B:And we talked about a bit about this and I said, like, yeah, I really pay.
Speaker B:Like, I invest a lot in being good on the bike.
Speaker B:I want to be good at cornering.
Speaker B:I want to race a bit smart.
Speaker B:I want to be a bit more aerodynamic, even on a road bike.
Speaker B:So we started talking a bit about that.
Speaker B:And then I said I was always interested in cycling.
Speaker B:And he said like, oh, do you want to go into cycling?
Speaker B:Because people are listening.
Speaker B:I said, well, I would really like to try it.
Speaker B:And then I think later that evening, I saw.
Speaker B:I got a message on WhatsApp, and that was from Ezra Trump.
Speaker B:So she is the.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Manager from EF Education, Oatley.
Speaker B:And she said like, hi, I'm this.
Speaker B:This.
Speaker B:I have this woman's team and I saw you racing in the Olympics and yeah, maybe we can have a call.
Speaker B:And I was like, oh, but because she's Dutch.
Speaker B:So I was like, oh, she listened to this podcast.
Speaker B:But then I saw like, in between all the messages on Instagram, Sealed already sent me a message.
Speaker B:So she was actually like, oh, no, that she was interested in cycling, but.
Speaker B:But now she announced it, so I have to be quick.
Speaker B:But she didn't have to because I wasn't really super happy with.
Speaker B:With her invite.
Speaker B:Yeah, so, and then we had a talk after the Olympics and she said like, okay, the best thing, if you want to try it, is just join a training camp.
Speaker B:So I joined a training camp in January.
Speaker B:So they went to Mallorca, which was quite good, but a lot of rain actually the first few days.
Speaker B:But there was a big camp.
Speaker B:So they had like their women's team part of them because the other part was down under racing, but they also have their men's team and a development men's team.
Speaker B:So they were like, yeah, almost everyone was there and the training camp went really well.
Speaker B:I really liked it.
Speaker B:So also for me it was a bit of a test.
Speaker B:Like, okay, cycling sound nice, but do I really like it?
Speaker B:Because it's of course a different you.
Speaker B:You're in a team.
Speaker B:It's, it's, it's more.
Speaker B:Yeah, it's not that individual and it's only cycling.
Speaker B:Do I like that?
Speaker B:How does it work?
Speaker B:How are the athletes?
Speaker B:Yeah, so I was also really curious how it would go, but I was really happy.
Speaker B:I felt.
Speaker B:Yeah, it felt really nice.
Speaker B:I think you might know that Taylor Brown was there as well.
Speaker A:Yeah, I was gonna say, I thought.
Speaker B:Yeah, exactly.
Speaker B:So, yeah, it was also really interesting to be like, like even to share a room with her because normally everything goes with federations, so that was so quite funny.
Speaker B:And we still did some swims together because, yeah, we're triathletes, so we're still gonna do a swim and a run.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker B:But the training camp went really well.
Speaker B:I liked it.
Speaker B:I liked how they did it.
Speaker B:I like the professionalism.
Speaker B:And we also had like a few, like one day where we did some mock races.
Speaker B:So we did a sprint, like with lead out.
Speaker B:We did a time trial, team time trial.
Speaker B:And we ended the day with race up the Ronda, which is a climb around 4k in Mallorca.
Speaker B:And of course like a lead out sprint and stuff like that's really new for us, but I really like to think about it and a very good team.
Speaker B:So it was really nice.
Speaker B:And yeah, with the claim, I even surprised myself because I finished second.
Speaker B:Just the sprint finish with Sudrin Cabo, which is really good cyclist.
Speaker B:So there was really.
Speaker B:Yeah, I was like, okay, I really like it.
Speaker B:And apparently I, I'm, I'm quite okay in cycling because you, you never know.
Speaker B:You know, it's, you can say, yeah, but I'm good in cycling within triathlon, but you don't know what that means.
Speaker B:Uh, yeah, so that was really interesting.
Speaker B:And then from that moment on the team was also quite happy, and they were like, okay, maybe we can take you.
Speaker B:So some races, not as athletes, but just to join, see how cycling races goes.
Speaker B:Because of course, you have like a big peloton.
Speaker B:There's not what we do, like a crit racing, 5k or 4k loop.
Speaker B:It's 120k loop.
Speaker B:And yeah, it's all different.
Speaker B:But then everything went really quick because they thought that maybe there was a spot already in May, and I had to think about, okay, but do I want to do that?
Speaker B:Because I'm.
Speaker B:I'm also a good triathlete and it's going to be pretty hard, right?
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:But I decided it's post Olympic year.
Speaker B:I don't know what the federation is gonna do, how triathlon is gonna look, and it's.
Speaker B:It's a new challenge.
Speaker B:So I was really curious about it.
Speaker B:But then it turned out it wasn't possible.
Speaker B:So, yeah, that happened.
Speaker B:Wasn't.
Speaker B:Wasn't bad or anything.
Speaker B:So then I decided to go again, like, more focused on triathlon, and I wanted to do like a half distance, so 70.3.
Speaker B:So I focused on that.
Speaker B:Then I got the invite for the 200.
Speaker B:So I decided to do the 200.
Speaker B:And then while I was in Vancouver, I got a message from the team again that they had a spot for me from July and that I could even raise the Giro.
Speaker B:So that was like, yeah, kind of a roller coaster period.
Speaker B:But I was super happy with the opportunity.
Speaker B:I knew it was just for half a year because they didn't like most of the teams, they already start thinking about how they want to have their team the next year around May, June, July, and they completed around August, October, September, more or less.
Speaker B:Sure.
Speaker B:So they already said, yeah, most likely we don't have any space for you the next year, but you could try and see if you like it.
Speaker B:So, yeah, that's why I decided to.
Speaker B:To give it a try.
Speaker A:So you'd raced like a handful of the cycling.
Speaker A:I mean, you did Tour de France, right?
Speaker A:You did Jira.
Speaker A:You did like a few.
Speaker B:Yeah, I did.
Speaker B:Just because, like, this year the Giro and the Tour were super close.
Speaker B:So all the athletes that were gonna do the Tour most likely didn't do the Jira.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker D:Can I ask, did your approach to racing the T100 on the bike, following your time with the team versus what you would have raced and how you would have approached the bike previously in terms of racing, because you went from doing the 5k crits or the crit racing to doing these Long distance races on the bike.
Speaker D:So did your approach to racing a triathlon and the bike part specifically change because of the experience you had as a pro cyclist?
Speaker B:Not for the long distance.
Speaker B:I think the long, like the 70.3 or Vancouver that I did.
Speaker B:I didn't do any cycling races yet, but it definitely made a change when I did a cycling race and then got back to the VHS racing.
Speaker B:Because the racing is.
Speaker B:Yeah, the level is so much higher in like, not the top, but the like the few around it a bit lower.
Speaker B:That's.
Speaker B:That's really different.
Speaker B:I think you can compare it with triathlon like years ago and when there were just five good swimmers and then there was a gap and then there was the rest and now it's 10 good swimmers and then 20, a bit less good swimmers, but still good swimmers.
Speaker B:And like.
Speaker B:Yeah, it's, it's.
Speaker B:Yeah, it's.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:So that's a bit different.
Speaker B:And I think what I always tried with the WTS races and I think Katie and everyone like sees it and knows it, that you wanna make the race hard or want to try to escape.
Speaker B:And I think if you do a bit more cycling races or even watch more CYC cycling races, which I definitely did, is you learn a bit more on how to do it.
Speaker B:And you might learn that two times doesn't work, but the third time might.
Speaker B:So that, that changed a bit.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker C:So when you raised Carlavi Vari, what was like your mindset or game plan going into it?
Speaker B:Yeah, definitely make it a hard race, but also try to lose people on the on lab.
Speaker B:I think I had a. I really had a bad swim.
Speaker B:I don't know why, because I was definitely not where I was supposed to be.
Speaker B:So there was a bit of like.
Speaker B:You had to change the plan then.
Speaker B:Because I expected to be a bit in the front and I wasn't.
Speaker B:So I first had to chase back.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:And then there's no thinking, I just want to chase back and get back.
Speaker B:But I also knew like, I win, I gain the most of time when I do it.
Speaker B:So when there's an incline because I'm stronger uphill.
Speaker B:And especially when you're on your own, you win a bit more time than just on straight on the flat because others can like go around and you have to do it on your own.
Speaker B:And that also works when you want to drop people because if they cannot hold your wheel.
Speaker B:Yeah, it's harder to do that.
Speaker B:But when I got back to the first group and when I had this break away, it wasn't really on purpose, I think.
Speaker B:I think my.
Speaker B:Yeah, I think my downhill skills were a bit better, especially with the wet conditions we had.
Speaker B:So I just saw after every corner like, okay, I've got a gap.
Speaker B:And when I saw it, that time was like, okay, I will just continue, because whatever, I'm not more or less strong with the group.
Speaker B:I can do it on my own as well.
Speaker B:Yeah, but I think that's.
Speaker B:That's.
Speaker B:Yeah, you really need a course like Colorful Ferry for it.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:And I think that's.
Speaker B:Yeah, I think you can see it also when you look just at pure cycling races, like the, the.
Speaker B:Like, the material we have, the bikes, they're so quickly improving.
Speaker B:That's like, the speed is higher, this is harder.
Speaker B:You have to generate even more speed to break away.
Speaker B:So, yeah, I think that's why we also see a bit less breakaways in the trial, because the courses are not so challenging and the speed is higher.
Speaker B:I think if you look at Galiari, that race where we had, like, the more or less out and back flat with some corners at the finish area, the speed there was so high.
Speaker B:I think we.
Speaker B:We.
Speaker B:What time?
Speaker B:Maybe 15 minutes or something for the whole bike section, you know, then the speed is so high that it's so hard to break away.
Speaker B:So.
Speaker B:Yeah, that's also something that you.
Speaker B:Yeah, that I had to learn as well, that you.
Speaker B:Yeah, that's sometimes really hard to break away.
Speaker B:But golly, Ferry is a different one in that.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:In the cycling races, like being on a team and having, you know, all that support, how is it?
Speaker A:I'm just curious about the differences between that and triathlon.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:Like, in some ways, from the outside, it looks bigger, More money, more professional.
Speaker A:But I'm wondering if that's how it feels.
Speaker B:Yeah, definitely.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:No, there's.
Speaker B:That's definitely.
Speaker B:But I think it also depends on, like, how big is your sport in your country.
Speaker B:I mean, cycling is big in the Netherlands, but that wouldn't matter because the teams are not from a country.
Speaker B:And with sratlon, we are bound to this federation from our country.
Speaker B:And triathlon is just not big in the Netherlands.
Speaker B:So the past few years, I had to travel on my own, arrange everything on my own to WCS races, which is crazy for some people.
Speaker B:They're like, but it's the world champs and you're top eight.
Speaker B:How is it possible that you have to do it all on your own and just see if you can take your boyfriend with you to coach you and you don't have a Fish show or whatever or like that's this weird stuff.
Speaker B:And my boyfriend, he used to be a cyclist and he was still a bit more involved in cycling.
Speaker B:And when he first met me and he saw how we were gonna prepare for a world championship striatlon race, he was like, you're kidding, right?
Speaker B:I mean, where is the mechanic?
Speaker B:You don't even bring a mechanic.
Speaker B:That's so weird because what if something happens with your bike?
Speaker B:You travel all the way to Australia and if something's happened with your bike, then what are you gonna do, you know?
Speaker B:So it's.
Speaker B:Yeah, it's really different.
Speaker B:Like that part is.
Speaker B:Yeah, it's much more professional.
Speaker A:That varies like by federation.
Speaker A:Right, like whether or not you travel with a mechanic.
Speaker A:Yeah, because I was like, I've been in the hotel with the US Federation.
Speaker A:They have.
Speaker C:Yeah, yeah, we travel with a mechanic and a massage therapist to most of the world trap on championship series races.
Speaker C:But yeah, it is, it's very different amongst all the different countries and federations and even the popularity, it just also depends on like the number of athletes.
Speaker C:Like athletes that you have too.
Speaker B:Yeah, but that's different with cycling teams because for them one of the most important things is a mechanic and a swinger.
Speaker B:Even like the lowest level cycling clubs, if they go to a race, they bring a mechanic or a swinger.
Speaker B:So it's.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:And we prioritize different things.
Speaker B:I think sometimes.
Speaker B:Yeah, but yeah, I think especially with the higher level in cycling, you will always have support around you.
Speaker B:And that's.
Speaker B:Yeah, that's really different.
Speaker B:I think.
Speaker B:I don't know how it is for you, Katie, but even if you go, or was.
Speaker B:Of course, if you, even if you go on like a, a race and you have like a pre camp or whatever with the federation, I mean when we went to Mallorca, they, they just like the only thing you have to do is go to breakfast and they had breakfast for you, mate.
Speaker B:You didn't have to eat the hotel food and they, they cleaned your bike and it's ready there to ride.
Speaker B:They even filled up your bottles.
Speaker B:I mean, that's quite crazy.
Speaker C:But yeah, we never, I wouldn't, I wouldn't say that we'd have that extent of care, but also a little bit depended on like which mechanic is at the races.
Speaker C:Like we've had mechanics who in the past have like built our bikes for us when we got to the races, which is just a little like that's not our standard.
Speaker C:I would say that was like above the level care and Then like, yeah, we never had like a chef travel with us, but we've had like a nutritionist or like for the Olympics in Rio, they brought in a chef for that for like when we were at the hotel.
Speaker C:So.
Speaker C:But it's at like you're saying the difference is, is the highest level of races, but the budget's just like.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker C:It's not that they're doing other things instead for us, it's just.
Speaker B:Yeah, the budget isn't there to do that.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah, exactly.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Right, interesting.
Speaker A:Are you planning on continuing to do cycling and triathlon at the same time?
Speaker A:Like balance them?
Speaker B:Yeah, maybe.
Speaker B:I, I just don't know.
Speaker B:For.
Speaker B:For this moment, I really don't know.
Speaker B:I don't want to close any door, but I also have like, I need some open doors for next season.
Speaker B:So I'm still looking for another team in cycling and I'm still a bit awaiting what's going to happen with triathlon also, what's going to happen with all those WTS races and.
Speaker B:Yeah, how that's going to work out.
Speaker B:So, yeah, it's hard.
Speaker B:I think just before we started the podcast, I explained a bit or federation and NOC decided that they're not gonna support Olympic distance triathlon anymore.
Speaker B:So in the fido, triathlon is not part of, I don't know, the National Olympic program, which, which still feels super weird for me because it's not a different sport.
Speaker B:But there are focusing on the relay and this has been for the past few years because like, like more time ago, I think before Tokyo, it was quite normal that the federation would organize a race towards the WTS race and we would go there with a few athletes.
Speaker B:But we needed the level.
Speaker B:I think that's a normal criteria to ask for.
Speaker B:But after that, yeah, we just didn't go to the World Champs anymore.
Speaker B:And I think they said a bit like, yeah, yeah, the World Champ.
Speaker B:That's the final, right?
Speaker B:No, no, the World Champ is like, like the whole series.
Speaker B:I know it's inconvenient, but that's how it is.
Speaker B:But I think it's.
Speaker B:It's gotten to it expensive and too hard to go there.
Speaker B:Especially when you're a small country, you don't have a lot of athletes.
Speaker B:And then the relay is easy thing.
Speaker B:I think small countries think that there really is an easy thing to perform well in because there are not a lot of countries.
Speaker B:I mean it's.
Speaker B:Because it's.
Speaker B:Yeah, it's just easier to finish top 10, you know, it's.
Speaker B:Yeah, that's just how it is.
Speaker B:But I think actually it's really hard for smaller countries because it's harder for us to have three women and three men being at that level.
Speaker B:But that's, that's the way that our federation and NOC is going now.
Speaker A:So I'm confused slightly.
Speaker A:Like you guys have to explain this to me too.
Speaker A:So like if the federation decides they're not sending people WTCs or like they're not going to focus on Olympic distance, can you do it alone or do you like have to have the federation.
Speaker D:Can you change country of allegiance to go to a different federation?
Speaker A:Well, yeah, that too.
Speaker A:I just meant like could you just like could, could Maya literally just like sign herself up now?
Speaker B:Your federation has to shine you up, but they are okay with it.
Speaker B:So they, they just don't care.
Speaker B:Like if I want to register, I can.
Speaker B:If someone that has never done a travel and wants to register, probably she can.
Speaker B:And with how it's going now with the WHS races, I think they might even have a shot at getting at the start list.
Speaker B:But yeah, we don't have any criteria for it.
Speaker B:So if you want to go, you go.
Speaker B:Yeah, if you can answer, that's fine.
Speaker B:But they also don't really care.
Speaker C:It costs a lot of money.
Speaker C:Not, not the entry.
Speaker A:Just so you'd have to like self.
Speaker B:Fund yourselves or have sponsors.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:And I think with the racing that's always been.
Speaker B:Yeah, it has always been a bit like that.
Speaker B:If you had more money, it was easier to raise.
Speaker B:But like the other thing that's.
Speaker B:For me a big problem is like normally in the Netherlands, if you doing an Olympic, Olympic sport and you're for example, top eight at the banks or at the world, you get funding.
Speaker B:So it's minimum, minimum plus 10% income and you get it.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:When you have that criteria met every year.
Speaker B:But now that it's not in the Olympic program of the Netherlands anymore, even if I finish top eight in Aughero, it doesn't matter because it's not Olympic discipline for them anymore.
Speaker B:So I lost my income.
Speaker B:So that's for me even the biggest problem.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:And gosh, when you can you get sponsors?
Speaker A:Sorry, I'm like, we're trying to solve.
Speaker A:I'm like curious.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:No, because Strathlon is so small in the Netherlands, it's really hard to find sponsors for really a lot of.
Speaker B:I've always been really happy when I got like the material I need for triathlon and then try to do races.
Speaker B:Smart.
Speaker B:Don't race too much because it's expensive.
Speaker B:Try to be good at the races.
Speaker B:You do win some.
Speaker B:Some price money and some small sponsors.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker B:So there's a lot of things to think about next year, how it's gonna go.
Speaker B:Because with the relay, we also have this criteria, but it's harder to meet because you need a lot more athletes that are good at a certain level.
Speaker B:And then you also don't know what's going to be the criteria to race in this relay.
Speaker B:So it's.
Speaker B:Yeah, it's a lot of uncertainty.
Speaker D:It's a pity when you think about the legacy that that will now lead to in your country, because you look at what Norway.
Speaker D:We've spoken about them briefly, but the size of that country, and they now have, like, there's four world champions in triathlon in that country.
Speaker D:How many Are they all Olympians as well?
Speaker D:Off the top of my head, yes.
Speaker D:Like, you think about the legacy that the sport that their legacy will be over the next two generations to come of athletes that are going to want to be triathletes because of what, you know, Casper Solvay, Solvay Christian and Gustav have done, never mind all the other Norwegian triathletes that are there as well.
Speaker D:It's a real shame, Maya, when you think about it, like, the missed opportunity for the next generation of Dutch kids coming through that want to be triathletes.
Speaker D:They have to look outside their country for inspiration.
Speaker B:Yeah, I'm a bit afraid so.
Speaker B:But it's.
Speaker B:It's a difference in opinion, I think.
Speaker B:I think our federation thinks that they can save triathlon with just focusing on a relay.
Speaker B:But I always think, like, it's not a different discipline.
Speaker B:I mean, the best relay teams are the countries with the best individual triathletes.
Speaker B:And I don't think that's gonna change.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:So, yeah, well, that's what I was thinking was.
Speaker C:It's interesting because they go hand in hand, right, the individual and the mixed relay.
Speaker C:And if you take people out of the individuals, then they lose contact with the competition and the ability to be one of the top relay, like, specialists.
Speaker A:But, yeah, yeah, there's also, like, which country put all its eggs in the qualifying in the relay bucket last Olympics, and then they just missed out and then they had put all of their.
Speaker A:I don't remember which country, but yeah.
Speaker B:And I think more gonna do it because I spoke with some other countries, not gonna tell which.
Speaker B:But they were also like, oh, we took an example of the Netherlands because they did so well at the Olympics with the Relay.
Speaker B:And I was like, yeah, but it was really a coincidence because you just need a lot of good athletes.
Speaker B:And I think like, also what Katie said, you missed the contact because, like, in the end, not all relays that are not the Olympics are as strong as the Olympics.
Speaker B:So if you want to train your athletes to be in those race tactics and speeds, they need to do high level individual triathlons.
Speaker B:That's what I think.
Speaker B:And they say you're free to do it, but how, what triathlons now organizes it is that smaller countries, of course all countries can do it, but smaller countries will probably do it first because they have less money and less athletes is saying, no, we're going to focus on the relays, we're going to qualify on the relays.
Speaker B:And you just need a top 140 in the Olympic rankings.
Speaker B:You don't even need to do world travel series for it.
Speaker B:You can just do World Cups, which is easier to earn points.
Speaker B:So I think it's.
Speaker B:Yeah, it's not good for world triathlon if.
Speaker B:Yeah, huh.
Speaker B:I understand that federations are doing this because it might make sense and if you look at it like this way, but for the sport, it's not great, I think.
Speaker A:Yeah, I guess we'll see what, like, obviously we're about to sign to enter the next cycle, the next Olympic cycle.
Speaker A:So you're right.
Speaker A:I guess we'll probably see like, which countries are going to say, like, oh, we're focused, you know what I mean?
Speaker A:Because then everybody puts out their criteria and we'll see kind of how it shakes.
Speaker B:They also don't really ever know how it's gonna go because sometimes it looks all good because I've been at the rural BHS race best years, but I don't think a lot of people knew how I had to do that.
Speaker B:So I think, yeah, you might just see less and less athletes from certain countries or.
Speaker B:I don't know.
Speaker B:Yeah, it's different.
Speaker B:I'm curious how it's gonna go.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:So you're balancing all these things, trying to say what you're doing next year.
Speaker A:What do you like?
Speaker A:How are you approaching them this off season?
Speaker A:You just gonna ride your bike a bunch?
Speaker A:You're gonna fight it out at the pool?
Speaker A:You're gonna relax?
Speaker B:No, I, I'm in my last week off season, so I'm just, I'm just really eager to start training again.
Speaker B:I wanna, I wanna improve on some points in cycling because I also think it could be useful for triathlon.
Speaker B:So I miss some explosiveness and I think it might be easier to have that in cycling with triathlon office as well.
Speaker B:But I also have some goals with running.
Speaker B:I want to improve.
Speaker B:I am working with a new running coach.
Speaker B:Like, not a coach, because my coach is down ra and he's absolutely great and he's helped me so much this year because also for him it was like, hey, Dan, we're gonna focus on Vancouver.
Speaker B:Hey, Dan.
Speaker B:No, sorry.
Speaker B:We're gonna raise the giro.
Speaker B:Oh, no, sorry.
Speaker B:We're gonna, we're gonna do colorful, fiery.
Speaker B:So it's, it's been a mess also for him.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:But there's still so much that I want to improve, and that's for me the most fun in, in.
Speaker B:In any sports.
Speaker B:So I still, I'm still gonna do that.
Speaker B:And I hope in the coming weeks or months that I have a bit more clear what's.
Speaker B:What every sports is going to mean, what, what the World Series is going to look like, what the federation is going to do if I find a cycling team and What's.
Speaker B:What's their program gonna be.
Speaker B:So, yeah, for now, I will.
Speaker B:I will still do both.
Speaker D:You have so many options.
Speaker C:The world is your opportunities.
Speaker D:I can't wait to see how the season pans out next year for you and where, where you end up and what you end up doing.
Speaker D:It's going to be hugely exciting.
Speaker B:Thank you.
Speaker B:I hope so that that's a different thing in cycling.
Speaker B:You need a cycling team to join the races.
Speaker B:So, yeah, that's a bit different.
Speaker B:So that's, that's the biggest uncertainty thing.
Speaker B:I think if I want to race next year Abu Dhabi, I can probably.
Speaker B:But.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Well, I was gonna say you're.
Speaker A:You gotta.
Speaker A:The second you went on the podcast and you gotta say, so now you're here and we're putting it out.
Speaker A:Yeah, we're manifesting someone's gonna.
Speaker B:We want to pick.
Speaker D:Do you want to name a team that you really want to race with next year?
Speaker D:We just put it out there.
Speaker B:EF was still absolutely great.
Speaker B:It's an American team, of course, so that's.
Speaker B:I'm gonna say that perfect.
Speaker A:Well, thank you so much for joining us.
Speaker A:I was gonna wrap up here because we've obviously like grilled you on your whole season, but we're gonna manifest for you.
Speaker A:Like, we're gonna, we're gonna put good vibes out for you to find a.
Speaker A:Find a good team.
Speaker B:Thanks a lot.
Speaker B:Yeah, thanks for having me.
Speaker B:It was really good, Sam.