This week's episode of Phoenix Tales contains descriptions and discussion of sexual abuse and trauma. Listener discretion is advised.

In today’s episode, Yuliana is joined by Gina de la Chesnaye, who shares her phoenix tale of surviving parental sexual abuse to become a humanitarian worker with traumatized communities. In her work, Gina draws on her own painful past to teach these communities how not only to survive their traumas but to thrive beyond the boundaries set by their experiences. She is founder and director of The Nachan Project, an NGO that brings mindfulness-based practices to the women and children living in the Katwe and Kisenyi slums of Kampala, Uganda.

Gina opens the conversation by discussing the sexual abuse she experienced at the hands of her father from the age of eleven. She speaks about burying those memories until they resurfaced after her father’s death and recognizing the ripple effects of his abuse on her lifestyle and relationships. She also reflects on mothering as a trauma survivor, how her experiences shaped her parenting, and the importance of breaking intergenerational cycles of abuse, including by caring for her father at the end of his life and discussing her trauma with her daughters. Gina then shares how practicing Buddhism and yoga have allowed her to use her body as a tool and resource for regulating her nervous system and emotions and gain a different perspective on her trauma. She also speaks about using that perspective to share skills and tools with other survivors, particularly in her work with women and children living in the slums of Uganda. Finally, the episode closes with Gina choosing her future self as the one person throughout time she would like the chance to sit down with, to thank her for inspiring her.

Episode Highlights:

• The challenging events that have redirected the course of Gina’s life
• Suffering sexual abuse at the hands of her father
• Unlocking buried memories after her father’s death
• The ripple effects of experiencing abuse
• Recreating a pattern of dysregulation in her adult relationships
• Mothering as a trauma survivor
• Breaking intergenerational cycles of abuse
• Practicing Buddhism
• Putting her experiences in a different perspective through sharing practice
• Feeling free after her father’s death
• Discovering her daughter’s sexual abuse
• Working with abused women and children in the Katwe slums of Kampala, Uganda
• One person Gina would go back in time to sit with

Quotes:

“We’re in so much pain, we don’t know how to handle it, we’re children. And so we hide it. And there’s also a lot of shame. And I think that if more and more people talked about it, which they’re starting to do, people like myself would have been able to find help.”

“He was, you know, he was my father, and I adored him. And that’s why it’s so, so difficult, especially for survivors of incest. The person that you love is the one that tends to hurt you the most. That’s incredibly confusing and painful, and it’s an utter form of betrayal.”

“I had a lot of anger, and I took it out often by, like, hitting doors or walls. I never hurt anyone else. Still, to this day, I use my anger to fuel me to help other people.”

“When you’re consistently dysregulated, let’s say working with a lot of anxiety or depression, or if you’re working with anxiety and depression all in the course of one day, those are usually the effects of having a nervous system that’s been tweaked by traumatic events.”

“A lot of people that I’ve worked with, even including myself, the concept of being happy is so unfamiliar, and we’re not used to it, that we can sometimes push that away, because our nervous system is just like, 'what is that?'”

“Even now, to this day, as a woman and as a survivor of sexual abuse, I am enraged that it still happens, and I’m enraged that my children have to deal with it. And there’s nothing I can do about it.”

“I recognized as well that it wasn’t just that I was breaking intergenerational cycles. You know, my father had experienced his own abuse, and my grandparents experienced their own abuse, and you know, in whatever way, this is how we break it. Stop it.”

“I was always drawn to Buddhism and to philosophy and things like that. But it wasn’t until I started to do the embodied practices that I could see what was arising in my body before it started to affect my mind.”

“Even now, every day I practice, not just because I have to, because it’s my way of regulating my nervous system. But it’s also the doorway to wisdom, and the wisdom being and having an understanding that everybody alive wants the same things.”

“I have been 100% focused on sharing the same skills and the same tools that I’ve learned to heal myself for others to heal themselves. And to come to a place of wisdom.”

“That’s the complicated thing that, you know, he was my father. And, yes, he inflicted incredible suffering upon me. But he could also be funny and generous and charming.”

“Relationships with every human are complicated, especially when it’s our parents or our children. And I’m glad that I have the ability to see that because nobody is entirely evil, you know, and unless you’re a Buddha, no one is entirely full of grace.”

“Because I’m human, my first thought was, like, that I had failed. And then I realized that, no, I hadn’t failed, this young man had failed. That’s the larger issue, you know, is how often do we as a society make excuses for men?”

“I think my future self would say, 'Thank you, you’ve done a good job.' And conversely, I would say to my future self, 'Thank you for inspiring me.'”

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Gina’s website