Shownotes
In this week's OmniTalk Retail Fast Five, sponsored by the A&M Consumer and Retail Group, Mirakl, Ocampo Capital, Quorso and Veloq, Chris Walton was joined by recurring Fast Five favorite Ben Miller, independent retail analyst and former VP of Content at Shoptalk, to discuss:
• Kroger's $1.65 billion acquisition of Giant Eagle, and whether the deal says more about Kroger's growth strategy or the mounting pressures facing the grocery industry (Source)
• Amazon Web Services investing $1 billion to embed AI engineers directly inside customer organizations, and why the AI race is shifting from choosing models to driving adoption and execution (Source)
• Lowe's bringing its third-party Marketplace directly into stores through My Red Vest, and why empowering associates to sell marketplace products could become a blueprint for high-service retail (Source)
• New Jersey's proposed ban on surveillance pricing and pause on new electronic shelf label installations, and whether lawmakers are protecting consumers or unintentionally slowing grocery innovation (Source)
• Amazon giving shoppers and AI assistants access to up to a full year of product price history, and how greater price transparency could reshape the future of agentic commerce (Source)
Plus, in this week's Lightning Round, Chris and Ben debate Britain's love of rotisserie chicken, Wimbledon traditions, Jordan Henderson's unfortunate Wonderwall injury, outrageous World Cup ticket resale prices, decorative lawn geese, inflatable holiday decorations, and much more.
P.S. Be sure to check out all our other podcasts from the past week here, too: https://omnitalk.blog/category/podcast/
P.P.S. Also be sure to check out our podcast rankings on Feedspot.
Music by hooksounds.com
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Transcripts
Hello and welcome to this week's Omnitalk Retail Fast 5.
Speaker A:I'm Chris Walton.
Speaker B:And I'm Ben Miller.
Speaker A:And Ben, who knew this week's episode would be dominated by, of all places, New Jersey producer Ella.
Speaker A:Let's cue the teaser.
Speaker A:You have a $9 billion family run organization crying uncle on what lies ahead.
Speaker B:Crucial to AI success is adoption and context.
Speaker B:And context is the bit that still isn't being discussed enough across the industry.
Speaker A:The AI arms race isn't about what model you're.
Speaker B:This is the great concentration in action.
Speaker B:Just yesterday, the NRF ranked it as the number four retailer in the whole.
Speaker A:Of the US no grocer in their right mind is going to change prices while consumers are shopping the aisle.
Speaker B:Even the prospect of doing that is so ethically wrong.
Speaker A:Ben Miller, my brother from another mother across the Atlantic.
Speaker A:He must be on cloud nine this week following England's win.
Speaker B:Oh, Chris, look, first of all, thank you for going early and bringing up the World Cup.
Speaker B:Did not want it to be the elephant in the room.
Speaker B:What a great tournament.
Speaker B:It's been, it's been great.
Speaker B:Hosted.
Speaker B:I'm sorry to have seen all of the hosts go out in a round of 16, but I'm very delighted that Mexico were one of them.
Speaker B:It was a incredible, incredible performance in the Azteca on Sunday night.
Speaker A:Monday morning, it was such a great match.
Speaker A:My wife and family and I were watching the U.S. you know, play their terrible match against, against Belgium and they were saying, like, my wife, my wife particularly was like, man, the quality of this match is just so inferior to like, just the, the intensity and the, and the excellence in play that we saw on display with England and Mexico.
Speaker A:So, so kudos to you all.
Speaker A:I pull it for you, man.
Speaker A:I pull it for you.
Speaker A:I like Norway too, in your next match, but I'm pulling for you.
Speaker A:I'm pulling hard.
Speaker A:We'll see what happens.
Speaker B:It's, it's.
Speaker B:We're absolutely into the grounds of, of the unknown.
Speaker B:It's completely unpredictable now, other than France winning the whole thing.
Speaker A:Right, right, right, right, right, right.
Speaker C:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker A:It's the best of the best now.
Speaker A:All right, well, so before we get started, remind our audience of who you are and all that is keeping you busy these days, Mr. Miller, because I'm curious.
Speaker A:I want to know.
Speaker B:Thank you, Chris.
Speaker B:So many people know me for the last four years or so.
Speaker B:When I was v. Contenter, Shop talk and grocery shop.
Speaker B:Before that, I had a long stint running a retail research company and consultancy.
Speaker B:And before that I was in retail myself as a grocer working in kind of merchandising, commercial and investor relation roles.
Speaker B:And I'm now embarking on life as an independent retail analyst.
Speaker B:So it's a great time talking to lots of people.
Speaker B:Got some really fun projects for after the summer and, and just kind of putting everything together and making sure I do it at the correct pace.
Speaker B:That enables me to watch some World cup at the same time.
Speaker A:Right, right.
Speaker A:That is one nice thing about being independent.
Speaker A:It allows you to set your schedule as I'm fighting too.
Speaker A:Like I'm watching more soccer than ever have.
Speaker A:Well, it's always good to see you.
Speaker A:I always love having you on.
Speaker A:Someone said to me last week too, I wanted to tell this to you.
Speaker A:Someone said to me last week, I was talking to him on the phone, they said, man, you and Ben have such good chemistry.
Speaker A:You should have him on more.
Speaker A:And so here you go for that loyal listener.
Speaker A:So are you ready to get to this week's headlines, Ben?
Speaker B:Let's do it.
Speaker A:All right.
Speaker A:In this week's Fast5, which is of course brought to you with the help and support of the A and M consumer and retail group, Miracle Corso, Ocampo Capital and Valoc, we've got news on Amazon making a $1 billion bet on embedding AI engineers directly inside its AWS clients businesses.
Speaker A:Lowe's making it easier for store associates to sell you a decorative goose or an above ground pool pool through its marketplace.
Speaker A:New Jersey passing a first in the nation bill banning surveillance pricing and and pausing electronic shelf labels in grocery stores.
Speaker A:And Amazon giving agentic shoppers up to 365 days of price history.
Speaker A:So Alexa can tell you if that deal is actually a deal.
Speaker A:But we begin today with a blockbuster grocery acquisition.
Speaker A:Headline number one is of course brought to you by the A M Consumer and Retail Group.
Speaker A:A and M Consumer and Retail Group is a management consulting firm that tackles the most complex challenges and advances its clients, people and communities toward their maximum potential.
Speaker A:CRG brings the experience, tools and operator like pragmatism to help retailers and consumer products companies beyond the right side of disruption.
Speaker A:All right, Ben, here we go.
Speaker A: lbertsons merger collapsed in: Speaker A:The deal is comprised of $1.25 billion in cash, plus the assumption of roughly $400 million in outstanding liabilities.
Speaker A:Giant Eagle Is family owned, generates about $9 billion in annual sales and operates roughly 197 supermarkets and 11 standalone pharmacies across Northern Ohio, western Pennsylvania, West Virginia, Maryland and Indiana.
Speaker A:Giant Eagle will keep its name, its Cranberry Township, Pennsylvania headquarters and its MyParks loyalty program.
Speaker A: deal is expected to close in: Speaker A:Ben, does Kroger's acquisition of Giant Eagle say more about Kroger or more about the state of the grocery industry itself?
Speaker B:Oh, wow.
Speaker B:What a great place to start.
Speaker B:The state of US Grocery.
Speaker B:Love it.
Speaker B:Look, I think for me there's two perspectives.
Speaker B:There is.
Speaker B:One, is it a good deal?
Speaker B:And then the second is should they do it anyway?
Speaker B:Okay, first, good Look, Giant Eagle is a solid business.
Speaker B:Yeah, it's got and it's got some really excellent regional market positions in places where Kroger doesn't.
Speaker B:So it is a, on the whole, a good geographic fit.
Speaker B:Look, there'll need to be some selective store divestments to hit antitrust, but I they should be manageable.
Speaker B:Second, can they get value from it?
Speaker B:So look, they are spending a billion and a half to get another 9 billion in revenue.
Speaker B:So that's better economies of scale, that's better buying, that's deeper.
Speaker B:With CPG partners, you've got to assume the Kroger is buying better than Giant Eagle was.
Speaker B:There's retail media opportunities and through Kroger precision marketing.
Speaker B:So that definitely a route to add value.
Speaker B:They can absolutely add value to Giant Eagle's ecom business.
Speaker B:So Giant Eagle, he's got a look, he's got a good curbside game.
Speaker B:But there is work to do in home delivery that as we know is the fastest growing bit of US grocery ecom right now.
Speaker B:So there's some strong kind of synergistic rationale there.
Speaker B:The Giant Eagle's private, so it's hard to get a really clear read on the financials.
Speaker B:I think the price feels okay, but having a feeling about an acquisition isn't great.
Speaker A:It feels okay, right?
Speaker B:It's not where you'd want to be.
Speaker B:We're taking a view on it.
Speaker B:But look, for everything I know about Giant Eagle, they should be making ebitda of about 250 million a year.
Speaker B:So China Eagle spending 1.6 to get another 250 profit.
Speaker B:That's okay.
Speaker B:It's a multiple of what, 6 to 7?
Speaker B:Which feels okay for a big grocery acquisition.
Speaker B:So that's fully okay.
Speaker B:It's now the should okay.
Speaker B:And the should's difficult because we don't know the Background.
Speaker B:We don't know why Giant Eagle are selling.
Speaker B:I mean it could be a point that this is just an offer that's come up that's too good to say no to.
Speaker B:You know, if you're Kroger and this is offered to you at this price, it's hard to know why you would decline.
Speaker B:So look, that's where due diligence is so important, why they're selling, why now?
Speaker B:It may just be actually a really, a relatively.
Speaker B:Kroger's 150 plus billion business.
Speaker B:So it's a relatively small acquisition to buy a good business with good market positions.
Speaker B:They've got new, new leadership so they can put the Albertson thing behind them.
Speaker B:Greg Foreign could say new broom.
Speaker B:Come with me.
Speaker B:You know, there is absolute distraction risk.
Speaker B:But maybe he needs to do something like this to prove that he can balance everything he needs to do.
Speaker B:But Chris, does it excite me?
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Is this, is this the thing that is going to supercharge Kroger?
Speaker B:It's, it's just a very Kroger thing to do.
Speaker B:And I'm right and I, I can understand it, it's got rationale.
Speaker B:But I, but I'm not sure what they're getting that's new.
Speaker B:You know, both, both these businesses are slowly losing market share to Amazon and Walmart and Sprouts and, and Aldi.
Speaker B:I don't see anything in this is going to help with that.
Speaker B:Now if leadership team can prove that they can bring this acquisition, get this extra scale, drive the value as well as giving us this something new that's exciting.
Speaker B:I buy into that.
Speaker B:But I'd love to see that new and exciting as well, Chris.
Speaker B:I really would.
Speaker A:So, so Ben.
Speaker A:So net Net, you're kind of like eh, meh.
Speaker A:On this acquisition.
Speaker A:That's how I'd kind of sum it up.
Speaker A:Meh.
Speaker A:You're kind of meh like, you're like, okay, I'll take it.
Speaker A:That's fine.
Speaker B:Unless, unless you discover any skeleton in the closet when you're doing due diligence.
Speaker B:It's probably too good an offer to say no to.
Speaker B:But it doesn't wake me up excited in the morning, Chris.
Speaker A:And it just feels like for you, just like another.
Speaker A:It's just like Kroger being Kroger.
Speaker A:That's kind of how you'd sum it up.
Speaker B:It's CRO.
Speaker B:It's Kroger being Kroger.
Speaker A:Kroger being Kroger.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:And I think I agree with that too.
Speaker A:I mean the other points I'd bring Up is I, you know, I think, I think the story and the reason I asked that question is I think it says a lot about the grocery industry too because you know, groceries in a tough spot, it's only going to get worse.
Speaker A:As I've talked about on this show many, many times with you and with others.
Speaker A:And you know, when I look at it from Giant Eagle's perspective, I have to look, you know, I think it's important to think about the motivations here too.
Speaker A:You have a very successfully run family organization in Giant Eagle.
Speaker A: Even remember at FMI back in: Speaker A:I heard her speak and she was talking about the, the family owned nature of the business was very palpable in what she's saying.
Speaker A:So basically you have a nine billion dollar family run organization crying uncle on what lies ahead.
Speaker A:That's essentially what's happening here.
Speaker A:So I read this as Giant Eagles leadership and shareholders are saying it's time to harvest and get out.
Speaker A:And if Giant Eagle is doing it because they're one of the more successful players at making a go of it, you can expect a lot more of where this came from down the road here as we look out the next five, 10 years.
Speaker A:Because the latest reports are, you said it already, Ben, Walmart has 40% of the online US market, one hour delivery, one hour or less delivery is actually now making up 18% of all grocery orders.
Speaker A:Thank you Amazon.
Speaker A:So Giant Eagle executives may be the smartest executives of the entire bunch here saying we see the writing on the wall, we're getting the hell out.
Speaker A:And Kroger, you're going to be the one left holding the bag on what is potentially a depreciating asset.
Speaker A:I mean, why else would a family owned business sell out?
Speaker A:That's just my take here, Ben, but I don't know, you get the last word.
Speaker B:I agree with all you've said.
Speaker B:However, if you're sat in Kroger and Giant Eagle comes up on the table to potentially buy for 9 billion, do you say no and walk away from that?
Speaker B:Personally, I think you don't.
Speaker B:I think you buy it.
Speaker A:Yeah, that, that brings up the, I don't know what the analogy is, but that means like when you're the only, like the only guy or girl at the prom or what are on the dance floor, do you take the Dance.
Speaker A:I don't, I don't know what, but you guys know what, I'm totally screwing up this analogy.
Speaker A:But like that's what it is.
Speaker A:Like if you're the only suitor that's you, you know, that is available, like should you be the one signing up for the deal?
Speaker A:I don't know.
Speaker A:I don't know that.
Speaker B:I, I, I don't, I don't, I, I, I don't think it's that bad.
Speaker B:But we will see.
Speaker A:Especially, especially too Ben though, like the other point of this too, which we didn't really talk about is foreign has said 60 of his store base is not where he needs it to be.
Speaker A:And now he's got that the distraction of an acquisition and bringing them into the fold.
Speaker A:Like, I don't know, like it just gets real dicey real quick.
Speaker A:But anyway, let's keep rolling.
Speaker B:Okay, we're going to move on to headline number two.
Speaker B:And this is brought to you by Miracle, the catalyst of Commerce.
Speaker B:Over 450 retailers are opening new revenue streams with marketplaces, dropship and retail media.
Speaker B:And succeeding with Miracle, you can unlock more products, more partners and more profits without the heavy lifting.
Speaker B:So what's holding you back?
Speaker B:Visit miracle.com to learn more.
Speaker B:All right, Chris, headline number two.
Speaker B:Amazon Web Services is investing 1 billion U.S. to create a forward deployed engineering organization that embeds teams of AWS engineers directly inside customer businesses to build and deploy production AI systems.
Speaker B:So according to Chainstore Age, these AWS frontier teams work inside a customer's own business with engineering and security teams building with the customer's data governance and processes.
Speaker B:AWS claims.
Speaker B:Amazon claims the AWS FDE forward deployed engineering teams can cut AI deployment timelines from months today's and the program is explicitly designed so customers are self sufficient once the engagement ends.
Speaker B:Chris, where does this AWS fully deployed engineering news signal about the AI arms race within retail?
Speaker A:Ooh, the AI arms race.
Speaker A:That's a cool phrase, Ben.
Speaker A:Well, it tells me that the AI arms race isn't about what model you're using anymore.
Speaker A:Like that, that you can basically pick one at this point.
Speaker A:But the key is really getting used to using one inside of your organization as quickly as possible for maximum impact.
Speaker A:That's what's happening here and that's why AWS and others are taking this approach.
Speaker A:And the problem with that is that the average retailer doesn't know how to figure this out on their own, like how to actually stand up the agents that are going to do the work on the data and information that the retailer has because, like we learn like, like, I think I talked about this in the Shop Talk Europe takeaways, you know, podcast.
Speaker A:Like an agent is like your employee on day one.
Speaker A:You have to give it the right training to make it successful.
Speaker A:And so that's fundamentally what's happening here is Amazon is saying, like, look, we realize now you need engineering help to make that work and the average retailer is not going to be able to figure this out on their own and, and therefore the money is flowing in this direction to not only justify, I'd almost say help justify what people think is a big opportunity.
Speaker A:So like the money's still flowing and you know, we haven't necessarily seen the Holy grail or the, the gold fall to the bottom line, you know, or whatever.
Speaker A:The profit all fall the bottom line from AI's deployment.
Speaker A:So like it's still rushing there and my hunch is it'll be there, but it's going to, I think it's smart that it's going to take efforts like this and I think the, the smart retailers would get behind it.
Speaker A:They're probably not going to get behind it with aws, which is one of the interesting things about this announcement, but they got to get behind this approach, I think, with other folks if they're not going to use aws.
Speaker B:Yeah, I agree, I agree.
Speaker B:Look, crucial to AI success is adoption and context.
Speaker B:And context is the bit that still isn't being discussed enough across the industry.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:You know, tailoring models, training them to your specific businesses.
Speaker B:And my assumption is that context and this context layer is absolutely built into this.
Speaker B:The fact that Amazon feels the need to invest a billion in this initiative absolutely highlights the importance of this unlock.
Speaker B:And they'll only be doing this if AWS had seen this was a barrier, that they needed to do this to drive adoption and to help their customers.
Speaker B:So.
Speaker B:Completely agree.
Speaker B:I think it's also quite fun that it's follows the Kroger story so quickly.
Speaker B:So many people across the industry have had so much to say about Kroger's potential acquisition and that's kind of 1.6 billion of spend.
Speaker B:And here's Amazon saying, yeah, we're going to spend a billion on this.
Speaker B:To which most people go, yeah, that sounds good, and then move on.
Speaker B:And this, this is the great concentration in action, isn't it, that there are things that it's possible for Amazon and Walmart to do that others.
Speaker B:And let's be honest, Kroger's not small.
Speaker B:Just yesterday the NRF ranked it as a number four retailer in the whole of the US So I think that's an interesting point.
Speaker B:But yeah, it's telling this story for me that AI adoption is not easy and you need experts and you need help.
Speaker B:Otherwise you're just not going to unlock that potential.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:I think it also tells you about the relative profit of software versus running physical stores too.
Speaker A:Particularly physical grocery.
Speaker B:Particularly grocery.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:When you put it in context.
Speaker A:Right?
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:100%.
Speaker A:All right.
Speaker A:Headline number three.
Speaker A:Headline number three is brought to you by Corso.
Speaker A:Your stores are full of data, but are your teams acting on it?
Speaker A:Corso turns retail data into personalized daily to dos that drive sales, reduce waste and improve execution.
Speaker A:No fluff, just action.
Speaker A:Help your managers focus on what matters most.
Speaker A:Visit corso.com to see Intelligent Management in Motion.
Speaker A:Headline number three.
Speaker A:Lowe's has integrated its third party marketplace directly into My Red Vest, the software its store associates use to help customers place orders, letting shoppers buy Marketplace only items like above ground pools and even even Ben decorative geese.
Speaker A:Yes, that was called out in the press release.
Speaker A: m inside any of its more than: Speaker A:What's good for the goose is good for the gander at Lowe's, according to Modern retail.
Speaker A:The integration lets associates search marketplace products alongside Lowe's own inventory and complete the purchase in store with the items shipped to the customer's home.
Speaker A:Lowe's VP of Marketplace, Michael McClusk.
Speaker A:Michael McCluskey said the goal is for customers to not even know whether an item is 1p or 3p.
Speaker A:They're just looking for the right solution.
Speaker A:And I 100 agree with Michael in his sentiment.
Speaker A:The future has already reached about 97% of stores and will be chain wide within weeks.
Speaker A:Lowe's says it's already exceeding internal expectations for store driven sales just weeks after launch.
Speaker A:Ben, is Lowe's onto something here with enabling its store associates to to sell Marketplace products in store?
Speaker A:What do you think of this move?
Speaker B:Yeah, of course it's onto something.
Speaker B:I know.
Speaker A:Okay, all right.
Speaker B:I like it.
Speaker B:I. I like it for Lowe's because home improvement is high.
Speaker A:Touch.
Speaker A:Yes.
Speaker B:Both Lowe's and Home Depot invest in their store teams as a key point of difference.
Speaker B:People know to go and ask for help.
Speaker B:So the more you can do to empower those teams just feels like really good omnichannel retailing.
Speaker B:And I think, look, we're all really used to sales experiences that start on the shop floor and continue online to access a wider assortment.
Speaker B:So look, adding Marketplace is just for me, a logical extension of that.
Speaker B:And it also removes a disconnect.
Speaker B:Chris, if you're a shopper standing in a store, you've got the Lowe's app open and you're looking at an item that works for you, you know, you really want that goose because they are on trend right now, decorative geese.
Speaker B:It makes no sense that the store team you're talking to can't help you with that.
Speaker B:And, and that, you know, that undermines the store associates.
Speaker B:So this is, it's great to see this investment.
Speaker B:It's, it's a win for customers, access to a wider product range.
Speaker B:Especially as Low said, they've more than double doubled their marketplace assortment in the last year.
Speaker B:So big win for customers and it should be a big win for sellers as well.
Speaker B:Building on those in store recommendations that I've got, I've got a slight watch out on execution to make sure that the store gets credit for these store driven sales.
Speaker B:That's important at that, that last little bit.
Speaker B:You know, if they haven't got that right, it'll disturb the flywheel.
Speaker B:But, you know, it should be a win for all involved anyway.
Speaker B:Look, Chris, I can see you nodding along.
Speaker B:Do you like it?
Speaker B:And if so, do you think more people should be doing this?
Speaker A:Oh, I freaking love it.
Speaker A:I freaking love it, Ben.
Speaker A:I mean, you even got me thinking about something I hadn't thought about until we, we just started recording here, which is like.
Speaker A:Yeah, when you, when you put the power of the recommendation in the hands of the associate for an online item, you could even trigger like a deal to get that sales associate to close the transaction right then and there with the customer, in theory.
Speaker A:So, like, there's a whole range of things that happen from this.
Speaker A:So I like it.
Speaker A:But I think your point is really very, very shrewd, Ben, which is you like it because of the vertical.
Speaker A:You like it because of the vertical that Lowe's operates in, which is home improvement.
Speaker A:And, and again, which is one reason I love having you on this show as often as we do is you look to Europe.
Speaker A:And, and I've interviewed executives from Kingfisher Leroy Merlin over the past two, three years and they've all talked about the advantages of taking this approach in their own stores.
Speaker A:So you look to Europe.
Speaker A:It's a great place to get benchmarking for what you should be doing in your store.
Speaker A:And this is a great example of benchmarking marketplace practices.
Speaker A:And so it works in the vertical because of home improvement.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:It's high touch, high services, the employees are genuinely helpful.
Speaker A:There are items that you need to complete your home renovation products, your decorative lawn chore that you need.
Speaker A:You need those geese, like you said.
Speaker A:And those items aren't always carried in store, nor should they be.
Speaker A:So that is why this is going to work.
Speaker A:Is it going to work in a Target or Walmart?
Speaker A:Like what?
Speaker A:I tell them to do the same thing.
Speaker A:Absolutely.
Speaker A:100%.
Speaker A:No, I wouldn't.
Speaker A:Because you don't have the same quality of service and the same types of interactions day in and day out.
Speaker A:But would it work in like a Best Buy?
Speaker A:100%, Yes.
Speaker A:100%, Yes.
Speaker A:I think it will.
Speaker A:So.
Speaker A:So that's where I think, you know, if you've got a high touch, high service environment and you're looking at a marketplace, this is a smart, smart extension.
Speaker B:Interesting, interesting.
Speaker B:So let's move on to headline number four, which is brought to you by Ocampo Capital.
Speaker B:Ocampo Capital is a venture capital firm founded by retail executives with the aim of helping early stage consumer businesses succeed through investment and operational support.
Speaker B:So learn [email protected] right, here we go.
Speaker B:Chris, we've got to go deep in New Jersey now because headline number four, New Jersey has passed a bipartisan Fair Price Protection act which would ban grocery stores and third party delivery platforms from using AI or so called consumer surveillance data to charge shoppers different prices for the same items.
Speaker B:And it also also imposes a one year moratorium on on new electronic shelf edge label installations.
Speaker B:So according to Progressive Grocer, the bill now sits on Governor Mickey Sherrell's desk and I hope I pronounced her name correctly.
Speaker A:I think you did, yeah.
Speaker B:Amazing.
Speaker B:She was previously called surveillance pricing outrageous and is expected to sign the bill.
Speaker B:The law bans pricing the varies based on biometric monitoring, genetic information or protected class data, but carves out exceptions for loyalty programs and clearly disclose group discounts such as teachers, seniors, vets, et cetera.
Speaker B:Retailers that already have ESLs installed can keep using them during the one year moratorium while the state studies their link to so called surveillance pricing.
Speaker B:The nga, the National Grocers association, has pushed back arguing that independent grocers do not use algorithmic or search pricing models and cause ESL simply a modern replacement for paper price tags.
Speaker B:Chris, this is the A and M put you on the spot question for this week.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker B:Okay, here we go.
Speaker B:Now that lawmakers are involved in the AI pricing debate to the point where it's affecting retail efficiency levers like ESLs, where do you side under Debate pro freedom of pricing flexibility for grocery retailers or pro protection for the consumer against it.
Speaker A:Oh, man.
Speaker A:I don't know if I'll take up the dichotomy there, but, you know, I think that this announcement's really important.
Speaker A:And the first half of what you read, I'm fine with like biometric monitoring genetic information.
Speaker A:Like, nobody should be using genetic information to price anything.
Speaker A:You know, like, that's just a, that's, that's a fine line that I don't think anyone wants to go down.
Speaker A:So all that jazz, 100%, I'm good with it because.
Speaker A:And the other thing too is that's really an online proposition.
Speaker A:You're doing that in an online game.
Speaker A:You know, you're not doing that in store pricing.
Speaker A:Store pricing doesn't work that way.
Speaker A:The mechanics of it are too complicated.
Speaker A:So what I'm really resolutely against, resolutely against is conflating electronic shelf labels with all that activity, because it just doesn't happen inside of a retail organization.
Speaker A:No grocer in their right mind, in their right mind is going to change prices, change prices on shelves while consumers are shopping the aisles.
Speaker A:The fallout from that type of activity would be absolutely insane.
Speaker A:And to think that shows just how much to even consider that shows just how much politics and the unions are involved in this discussion.
Speaker A:And the moratorium on electronic shelf labels makes me sad because it is what I have said over and over again for the past nine years since creating Omnitalk.
Speaker A:It to me is the number one technology that helps grocers compete with Amazon.
Speaker A:The benefits are so multifold.
Speaker A:You've got labor savings, you've got pick to like capabilities.
Speaker A:But most importantly, and I'll say this, till the cows come home, you get marked to market pricing.
Speaker A:So how do the state representatives think grocers are going to compete with Amazon when Amazon can change their prices anytime they want to, whether or not they're doing surveillance pricing or not, they can still change them whenever they want to while grocers are left running print jobs that take weeks and weeks to execute.
Speaker A:So the, the arguments, positive to me, Ben, are just downright ridiculous.
Speaker A:But what's your take?
Speaker A:Yeah, Europe.
Speaker A:Europe.
Speaker A:Europe said you've had, you've had ESLs forever, you know, and, and you.
Speaker A:And Europe is far more pro labor than the United States is too.
Speaker A:So there's, there's this interesting, like, what the heck is going on here with this legislation?
Speaker A:To me.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:And I think that, I mean, there's an irony there, Chris.
Speaker B:You know, do you know it was actually consumer protection legislation that drove the adoption of ESLs in Europe?
Speaker A:No way.
Speaker A:Really?
Speaker B:Particularly France.
Speaker A:Great context, Ben, great context.
Speaker B:Because France has some of the strongest legislation around pricing irregularities with genuine meaningful fines.
Speaker B:If you've got a difference between your on shelf price and what's actually charged at till and it comes complete with frequent inspections and a rigorous enforcement environment, put those together, that created the environment where the business case for ESLs, that is to ensure consistent pricing was tipped and it became more important for French grocers to put it in than the risk of fines.
Speaker B:So that's, that's, that's what drove the development and so many ESL technologies were built out of France and that, that's why, that's why.
Speaker B:Chris, so this goes, this goes to the heart of the story for me.
Speaker B:Is this consumer protection legislation or is this a labor protection legislation?
Speaker B:And if it's the latter, I mean that there is clearly an irony in that.
Speaker B:Knowing how much in store teams hate having to manually change price labels.
Speaker B:But I think, look, two elements.
Speaker B:Firstly, should retailers and especially grocers be using dynamic pricing?
Speaker B:And secondly, the case for legislation.
Speaker B:Look, Chris, I'm not going to go into the latter genuinely.
Speaker B:It's not my place to comment on the legislation that the good people of New Jersey want to enact.
Speaker B:But I totally agree.
Speaker B:The moratorium on ESL rollout is, it's a challenging precedent for retailers across the US who are battling to find appropriate efficiency savings.
Speaker B:And I hope other retailers are listening, are paying attention and engaging with their representatives accordingly on this topic.
Speaker B:Really important.
Speaker A:Yeah, that is really excellent context, Ben, which is why it's so great having you on the show because you provide the context of like, hey, we've been down this road before.
Speaker A:There are right and wrong answers to these questions when you look at them and you look at all the facts that are, that can be presented and you know, the France case is a great one to look at in terms of what's going on and what are you, what is the problem you're really trying to solve?
Speaker A:If you're trying to solve dynamic pricing, solve dynamic pricing, but don't make electronic shelf labels the calling card for that issue because it's really a separate, it's really a separate topic for the most part.
Speaker B:You know what Chris, My concern in bringing them together is, is it we potentially don't get the grown up conversation that we should be having about that dynamic pricing.
Speaker A:Right?
Speaker B:Yeah, look, consumers are, they used to paying more when things get scarce.
Speaker B:So if I was in Miami this weekend and I wanted to try and get a ticket to see England play Norway.
Speaker B:I understand that's going to cost me more because of scarcity.
Speaker B:I understand the last seat on a flight will cost more than if a plane's half empty because it's finite.
Speaker B:I might not love it, but I get it.
Speaker B:There is absolutely no parallel to that in grocery retailing.
Speaker A:No, not at shelf.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:Not at shelf.
Speaker A:No.
Speaker B:We do an incredible job as an industry to avoid scarcity.
Speaker B:You know, our stores frequently run with on shelf availability in the high 90s, you know percent there is no last seat in the stadium equivalent.
Speaker B:But if legislation, so look, legislation that wants to prevent charging individuals different prices for food at the same store in the same time.
Speaker B:I mean even the prospect of doing that is so ethically wrong.
Speaker B:No retailer would touch it with a barge pole.
Speaker B:And no, that's, that, that's, that's fine.
Speaker B:But what will be a shame, Chris, I'd love to hear your views on this is if there was such a backlash that it prevented retailers from using intelligent pricing for commercial or shopper advantage.
Speaker B:Look, what, what do I mean?
Speaker B:I, I don't have a problem if a grocer reduces the price of a product in certain stores in its portfolio because a competitor in catchments where it's overlapping has got some competitive activity and AI and shellfish labels is how you do that.
Speaker B:I, I don't have a problem if a grocer wants to run some live A B tests across a couple of different stores in his portfolio to understand what the optimum markdown price versus full price is so it sells through, minimizes food waste.
Speaker B:And again, you can only do that with AI and ESLs in a physical store environment.
Speaker B:So limiting the ability to do some of these smart things, I, I feel that's a shame.
Speaker B:But I'd love to, I'd love to hear your take on that.
Speaker A:No, I, I 100 agree with you.
Speaker A:I mean, and that's what's going to keep grocers profitable in the, and continuing to staff, you know, up and employ people in their local communities is having the ability and the triggers to do that.
Speaker A:But the key point you're making, Ben, I think if we step back from all of it is like, you have to think about how this works in practice.
Speaker A:No grocer, like I said before, no grocer is going to change the price when I'm standing in the aisle versus when you're standing in the aisle because the social media videos for that would be insane.
Speaker A:Like no one is going to do that and no groceries probably even going to change anything in the store during the day.
Speaker A:Unless it's like a dramatic promotion where everyone gets the benefit of that promotion.
Speaker A:That's the only way this is going to happen.
Speaker A:Otherwise prices are going to change overnight.
Speaker A:They're going to update overnight just like they always do.
Speaker A:Just like when they always put signs out, it's not going to be any different.
Speaker A:And so that's why this is so misguided if you actually get to the actual operations of how retailing is done, you know, so that I don't know, but let's keep rolling.
Speaker A:It's a great discussion.
Speaker A:I love the context that you brought in from the Europe, Europe side too.
Speaker A:Because like, yeah, you.
Speaker A:What you actually want is to make sure people are getting the right prices too.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:Which also ESLs help with.
Speaker A:All right.
Speaker A:Crazy.
Speaker A:I.
Speaker A:It's crazy.
Speaker A:I can't believe we're even having this discussion.
Speaker A:Some.
Speaker A:In some ways.
Speaker A:All right, headline number five is brought to you by voc.
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Speaker A:All right, headline number five.
Speaker A:Amazon is expanding its Alexa for Shopping agentic assistant to show customers up to 30, 90 and 365 days of price history on any product, letting shoppers or Amazon's own AI verify whether a deal is actually a deal before buying.
Speaker A:According to Chainstore H, customers can access price history two ways.
Speaker A:One, by clicking a link right next to the price on a product page.
Speaker A:Or two, by asking Alexa for shopping directly.
Speaker A:Something like is this the lowest price recently?
Speaker A:Wow.
Speaker A:Price history is live for all US, UK, Canadian and Indian customers.
Speaker A:As of today, the full365 debut is rolling out in the US, UK and India.
Speaker A:Over the coming weeks, band is giving customers a full year of price history.
Speaker A:Help Amazon look more trustworthy?
Speaker A:Or going back to the conversation that we just had to some degree.
Speaker A:Does it invite more price scrutiny than Amazon wants?
Speaker B:Yeah, Chris, that was my first reflection on this one.
Speaker B:It's funny, this is coming after the last one because there's a retail reality, isn't it?
Speaker B:Prices move.
Speaker B:That's.
Speaker B:That's what happens.
Speaker B:Look for Amazon, I think it's a strong move.
Speaker B:I think it's a strong move for a number of things.
Speaker B:It keeps building their credentials as a trusted price leader.
Speaker B:So price transparency is great and it especially sets them up for agent E Commerce.
Speaker B:Price transparency.
Speaker B:That's a big, big building block to get in place.
Speaker B:There's a really significant direction of travel for Amazon sellers here and this is Amazon's continued investment in Alexa for shopping.
Speaker B:Alexa for shopping continues to look like it will be the default way to navigate Amazon at some point in the future.
Speaker B:So I think that's for me that's got huge read throughs and for Amazon sellers and brands really understanding how your product is discovered and how it shows up on Alexa for shopping is, is critical and how your, you know, how your AMS investment influences that.
Speaker B:So that's one of my big takeaways from this.
Speaker B:It's also important for Amazon sales to recognize there's even extended price visibility.
Speaker B:Now they've been working with price visibility for a while, a year of possibility that brings in new categories, new seasonal products where the shorter time spans that it might have been of less relevant.
Speaker B:So all sellers.
Speaker B:I think it's really key.
Speaker B:But no, I think it's a good move.
Speaker B:But Chris, I'd love to hear your views on this one.
Speaker A:Yeah, I mean I'm not super worried about the fallout from this, like the PR fallout from this because I think anytime you're showing consumers how to save money, I think it's kind of bulletproof.
Speaker A:You know, at the end of the day, you know, like you're just saying like hey, here's the price and here's what it was before.
Speaker A:I think consumers are generally going to be receptive to having that information because it helps them to save money.
Speaker A:So for that reason alone, I like the move from Amazon.
Speaker A:The other thing too, Ben, and you touched on this a little bit.
Speaker A:I love it for the optionality it creates just as an experiment.
Speaker A:So I think it's like a really good experiment to see what happens when you put it out there for your customer base because one, you can see how consumers react to it.
Speaker A:But two, and you said this, you alluded to it.
Speaker A:But to give it even more context, like it gives the scraping agents, you know, all the LLMs that are scraping data from sites, it gives them more info to help their users make informed decisions which ultimately Amazon wants because they want to capture whatever product search traffic is out there by giving them the most information on whether something's a good deal.
Speaker A:So and then the last point, the third point I'd make in terms of the optionality is it also sets the table for incorporating similar enhancements into Amazon's buy for me technology.
Speaker A:Right?
Speaker A:Like, okay, can I start to track this on other people's websites too and incorporate that into it?
Speaker A:And maybe Amazon's like, let's understand if people are using it on our own site first before we go and invest on figuring out how to get it from other sites as well and what can we take and what's going to be involved in that.
Speaker A:So all of that just puts.
Speaker A:It just gets me thinking, like Amazon more than more, more and more.
Speaker A:Amazon's going to come out of this wave of AI just fine and dandy based on how they're, the actions they're taking to bolster their ranks in terms of how people are actually going to shop.
Speaker A:It feels like the most clear strategy to me in the industry in terms of how they're thinking about keeping hold of their commerce kingdom or domain, so to speak.
Speaker B:Yeah, I, I agree.
Speaker B:I think anybody selling significant volumes online should really stay close to Alexa for shopping and how it's developing.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:100.
Speaker A:All right, Ben, well, let's go to the lightning round.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker A:First one.
Speaker A:Sam's Club's Rotisserie Chicken recently dethroned Costco's chicken as the best pound for pound bird on the market, according to a new survey by Consumer Reports.
Speaker A:Ben, I'm curious.
Speaker A:Do the Brits go equally crazy for rotisserie chicken or is this more of an American phenomenon?
Speaker A:And also, how do you like your chicken?
Speaker B:Oh, God.
Speaker B:I mean, look a good.
Speaker B:A good in store.
Speaker B:Roti's Chicken is a core part of any decent UK supermarket, but in all honesty, it's not a huge category.
Speaker B:So it's maybe US$200 million in total year across the whole of UK retail.
Speaker B:So it's there.
Speaker B:It smells great.
Speaker B:How do I love my roast chicken as part of a Sunday dinner?
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:With roast potato.
Speaker B:A proper British Sunday roast.
Speaker B:Oh, yeah.
Speaker B:Roast potatoes, Yorkshire puddings, gravy that you can make your fork stand up on his.
Speaker B:In his own hat.
Speaker B:That's great.
Speaker B:I've not, I've not had the Sam's Chicken, but I have had the legendary Costco Rotis, which is a good product.
Speaker B:So, yeah, all Crater Sam's, if they got a better one, that's for sure.
Speaker B:First question number two.
Speaker B:Tennis fans all around the world are currently glued to Wimbledon Fortnite and are enjoying with it the iconic Wimbledon treat of strawberries and cream.
Speaker B:Do you, Chris, have a specific favorite sporting occasion and snack combo?
Speaker A:Oh, yeah.
Speaker A:Easy, easy.
Speaker A:In fact, I just had this discussion with my, my wife the other like yesterday, actually, Ben.
Speaker A:Super bowl, Buffalo Wings.
Speaker A:100 Super bowl and Buffalo wings.
Speaker A:It's got to be.
Speaker A:Or World cup and Guinness.
Speaker A:That would be my next answer.
Speaker B:Oh, love that.
Speaker A:Love that for sure.
Speaker B:All right.
Speaker A:And to that point, English football player Jordan Henderson injured himself quite badly as he rushed to sing Wonderwall with English fans following the team's World cup victory over Mexico.
Speaker A:Ben, I'm curious, what's the degree of sympathy felt by the UK population, you being the sole representative of the entire UK country right now?
Speaker B:Oh, I mean, John Henness, it's a legend.
Speaker B:This is a legendary performance.
Speaker B:He was able to get himself booked, he got a yellow card and he got stretch it off without playing a single minute in the tournament.
Speaker B:It is, it is a remarkable future pub kids question.
Speaker B:I mean, look, thankfully he is a big part squad player in this one, so it's not going to harm us as we progress through the tournament.
Speaker B:And aren't those Wonderwall moments fantastic?
Speaker B:It's.
Speaker A:They are really good.
Speaker B:Is becoming iconic and it's, it's like a real moment of connection between the players and the fans.
Speaker B:I love that.
Speaker B:And, and God.
Speaker A:No, you go, you keep going.
Speaker A:I'll ask you my question later.
Speaker B:No, it's going to say, look, speaking on behalf of all English football fans, as I am today the designated spokesperson of the entire country, thank God it's replaced Sweet Caroline at last.
Speaker B:We appreciate that.
Speaker A:Right, right, right.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:I was going to ask you if, if you give him special dispensation for the fact that he injured himself by rushing to sing an Oasis song, because I know how big of an Oasis fan you are as well.
Speaker A:Like I think 100% you do.
Speaker B:Legendary performance, Chris.
Speaker B:Legendary.
Speaker B:All right, go on.
Speaker B:I'm going to stick with the World cup first question.
Speaker B:So yesterday on Ticketmaster's resale site, there was a pair of tickets for the USA Belgium game for what was, quote, the best seat in the house.
Speaker B:That's mid pitch, lower tier.
Speaker B:They were on sale for a cool $23,000 for the pair.
Speaker B:So that's $130 per minute of the game per person, excluding the hydration advertising breaks.
Speaker B:So, Chris, what has been your most extravagant purchase on a time per dollar basis?
Speaker A:Oh, my God.
Speaker A:On a time per dollar basis.
Speaker A:Wow, that's a really interesting.
Speaker A:That's a really tough question.
Speaker A:God, off the top of my head, I'm not a very extravagant spender, Ben.
Speaker A:Probably, probably.
Speaker A:In reality, it's probably sitting at the blackjack table in Vegas, that's probably the most, most money Spent per time alone very, very quickly.
Speaker A:Yeah, 100.
Speaker A:Or.
Speaker A:Or the sports book as well.
Speaker A:It's got to be one of those answers.
Speaker A:Yeah, 100%.
Speaker A:All right, well, today's podcast was produced with, of course, the help and support of our fabulous producer, producer Ella Sirjord.
Speaker A:Ella, come on in here.
Speaker A:I'm curious, what headline won the show for you today?
Speaker C:Yeah, I mean, I'm with you both.
Speaker C:I loved the Lowe's headline this week.
Speaker A:Did you?
Speaker C:Yes, Ben, to quote you, it's a big win for the customers.
Speaker C:Now, I can't say I'm a huge Lowe's customer.
Speaker C:I've been, I've been there for the potted flowers.
Speaker C:Not so much everything else, but it was my favorite because as a customer, this is exactly just the update that makes you more likely to shop there in the future.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:If I was to go buy a pool and I know you know what it might be on their website, I can't.
Speaker C:No matter what, I'm going to leave with a pool.
Speaker C:Whether it's shipped to my door or there.
Speaker C:This is gen zers.
Speaker C:Don't really care as long as I'm getting it right.
Speaker A:So, Ella, I'm curious too.
Speaker A:As an offshoot to this, because the decorative geese came up so much in the conversation, where do you fall on the whole decorative lawn ornaments debate, especially around the holidays?
Speaker A:Are you pro or con inflatable decorative lawn ornaments?
Speaker C:Okay.
Speaker C:Inflatable against decorative geese.
Speaker C:Not.
Speaker C:Aren't necessarily inflatable.
Speaker C:Right, Right.
Speaker A:No, they're not.
Speaker C:I can go for a little gnome sitting in my yard, however, a massive Santa or a massive inflatable.
Speaker C:Absolutely not.
Speaker A:So no to inflatable?
Speaker A:Yes to standard gnomes on your.
Speaker A:In your lawn?
Speaker A:Yes, that's what I'm hearing.
Speaker C:Exactly.
Speaker C:How about you, Chris?
Speaker A:I. I'm all in on the decorative ornaments.
Speaker A:Yeah, I love decorative lot ornaments.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:No, I'd have like the biggest blow ups of Darth Vader's every year that I could.
Speaker A:But Ben, I'm guessing, I'm guessing the English are a more.
Speaker A:You have a more refined, you know, more refined taste than us here in the States.
Speaker A:Like, what's the, what's the feeling on decorative lawn ornaments in.
Speaker A:In the uk?
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Hard no, Chris.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:It's a hard no.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:It's like you're not even on the gnome territory.
Speaker A:Right?
Speaker A:You're like not even buying into what Ella's throwing down here, right?
Speaker B:No, no, we're all good.
Speaker B:Thank you.
Speaker A:Oh, my God, this is so great.
Speaker A:So I love doing the show at the end of the show.
Speaker A:It's so great.
Speaker A:All right, well, happy birthday today to Kevin Bacon, Sophia Bush, and to one of the best actors pound for pound out there anywhere, the man who once played Steve Prefontaine, Billy Crudup.
Speaker A:And remember, if you can only read or listen to one retail blog in the business, Make It OmniTong.
Speaker A:Our Fast Five podcast is the quickest, fastest rundown of all the week's top news, and our daily newsletter, the Retail Daily Minute, tells you all you need to know each day to stay on top of your game as a retail executive and also regularly feature special content that is exclusive to us and that we all take a ton of pride in doing just for you.
Speaker A:Thanks as always for listening in.
Speaker A:Please remember to like and leave us a review wherever you happen to listen to your podcast or on YouTube.
Speaker A:You can follow us today by simply going to YouTube.com omnitalkretail Ben Miller, if people found you engaging, insightful, a great, easy listen, what's the best way for them to get in touch with you?
Speaker B:I'd love to hear from them if that's the case.
Speaker B:LinkedIn is also always the best option.
Speaker B:I am Benmiller Retail on LinkedIn.
Speaker A:Awesome.
Speaker A:Awesome.
Speaker A:Well, until next week, on behalf of Ben, producer Ella and myself and all of us here at Omnitok Retail, as always, be careful out there.