In this episode of Start Something, we talk to Kamilah Sanders, founder of Greater Than Equal, about overcoming adversity, making your own way, and never giving up.

She talks about her past life in the corporate world, breaking out on her own, and what it takes to shatter glass ceilings.

From the Deep Dive

• Kamilah at Fashion Takes Action
• Kamilah and Leia
• Tights and Pants
• Never Give Up

Kamilah's Nashville Faves

• Slim & Husky's
• Yay Yay's
• EG+MC
• Clarence Edwards

Advice from Kamilah

• Take the leap of faith
• Don't spend years of life thinking about what you could have done
• Surround yourself with people that can help
• Don't be afraid to go get resources

Links from the Episode

• Kamilah on LinkedIn
• Kamilah Sanders
• Fashion Futurist
• Greater Than Equal
• Greater Than Equal on Instagram

Kamilah Sanders

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Derek: Hey, what's up everybody? I'm Derek, founder and c e o of Bunches and you're host here at Start Something.

Let's go. Good to see you. Great to be here. Yeah. So we're gonna jump right in a habit that we do, you know, Start something is I like to ask these hack questions to get to know you a little bit. And so when I'm asking these questions, they're kind of fun, they're kind of silly, they're like buzzfeedy type questions.

They are meant to get to the heart of who you are. So I'm not asking your favorites. You can think about it, but sometimes the first thing that comes to your head is the right answer. There are no wrong answers and so don't, don't feel intimidated by that. So we'll just jump right in. If you were a global.

Kamilah: Oh wow.

Derek: And I say global city. It doesn't have to be like,

Kamilah: do I have to pick an actual

Derek: city? Are you a like a place and not

Kamilah: a city? Well, no, I mean like do you pick an actual city that exists? Yeah.

Derek: Yeah. Well, I mean, do you think you're a mythical city? Maybe? I am.

Kamilah: Yeah. Well, I mean, that's fine. That's a good answer. I mean, cuz I, okay.

If I had to pick a city that exists, okay. I would have to say I can't help it. I mean, I'm based in the US Sure. I'd say New York. Yeah. Okay. But I would think, I mean, but we say global, right? Sure. And I, if I say one city, It just makes it seem like it's so local. Yeah. Right. That's fair. So I would have to be this mythical, decentralized city.

Oh, cool. Wow. That everyone can have access to. Yeah. Be through the metaverse.

Kamilah: And telepathically. Okay. Right there. Yeah. You just like transfer your mind. You can just close your eyes and you're like, there. Yeah.

Derek: What's the name of the city? You gotta name

Kamilah: it.

Oh wow. It is, I dunno, you gotta name it. It's, it's called Impact Impetus. Okay. Right. And it's basically you go to the city and you're inspired and you're kind of. Help you to see like your vision in life. Yep. And it just help it whatever. Whatever your vision is that comes to life in this mythical city.

Right. That's cool. And that's why it's called impact impetus. Yeah. Because it helps you to make an impact to visualize the impact that you're gonna have on the world. That's cool. And take that next step. Yeah. There.

Derek: All right. So if you were a city, you'd be impact impetus. Don't Google Maps that everyone currently only exists in Camila's mind.

Yeah. If you were a. What fruit would you be?

Derek: Yeah. There has to be

Kamilah: quite a few. There's, I'm sure there's a few. Yeah. And maybe it looks like something totally different and you didn't, never knew it was a fruit. But it's a fruit. Yeah.

Derek: What are some of the characteristics? Like is it more tart, more sweet? Does it have, um, Maybe medic distal properties.

Kamilah: Like it's definitely balanced. Okay. It's not too sweet, it's not tart, but it's just like, kind of like, oh, you know, but it's this, it's like a really shocking flavor that okay, you, you look at it, you wouldn't, you're like, I don't know if I'm gonna like this. But you bite into it and you're like, oh wow. Yeah.

Like this is really good and it's not too sweet and it's not you, you ever have like a drink like that or something? Yeah, for sure. And it's like, it's not too sweet. It's not too dry. Well, just, right.

Or is it more like unassuming as a, from the outside looking, assuming, yeah. Yeah.

Kamilah: I, that's why it's not discovered yet.

Derek: That's true. Yeah. Yeah. If it was like B bright and flashy, people see it like, what is this? I and I, I'm certainly not like saying that this is, is your fruit, but when you're describing it, I think of a kiwi, like a kiwi is just like this brown looking thing.

Brown, yeah. But then you crack into it and it's like green and Yeah, it's colorful and then you bite it and it's like, oh, that's an interesting flavor. Like it's, yeah, kind of tart, kind of, kind of sweet. That's cool. If you were a beverage, so alcoholic, caffeinated water of any kind, if you were a beverage, what beverage would you.

Kamilah: Wow. I would have to say alkaline water. Alkaline water, definitely. I have to pick something that's healthy. Sure. Yeah. Yeah,

Kamilah: Um, I would say, I would say Afrobeats.

Okay. Yeah.

Derek: Very cool, upbeat global in nature.

Kamilah: Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Very cool.

Derek: Exactly. And last but certainly not least, if you were an animal, what animal would you be?

Kamilah: I don't wanna say the obvious. What's the obvious? My, because you say not your favorite, so I'm not gonna say tiger. Okay. I'm not gonna say my sign, which is like a lion.

So maybe I would say a Black Panther. Very cool. Not that it has anything to do with the movie. Yeah. But it was a great movie. I mean, it's a great movie. It's an awesome movie. But not just that, like, I really actually like love animals, so

Derek: Yeah. Oh, we'll get to that, but,

Kamilah: oh boy. Okay. So I think it's just cuz that mystery.

Derek: very animal and, and when it acts, it even. In mystery, you know what I mean? Like it's stalking in the, in the

Kamilah: jungle of the center. Not stalking, not, yeah, I wouldn't be stalking. I'm not saying you're a stalker.

I just wanna clarify then.

Derek: That's cool. So would you say, just to confirm here, that you are a New York slash I impact impetus. Undiscovered fruit, alkaline water, afrobeats, black Panther kind of person. Oh, absolutely. Nailed it. Very cool. Perfectly described me. That's awesome. And so, you know, more traditional introduction, what are you, what are you doing these days?

You know, what's your, what's your role? Where, where are you working? What's your side project, if any?

My background is marketing. Very cool. 20 plus years. So it's really a focus on marketing strategy and web Three events that help you to connect with your community and maximize your.

Derek: Yeah. Very cool. And we're definitely gonna dive into that. It's a fascinating story. But before we dive into that, I wanna dive into, you know, kind of this fun thing that we do, a social deep dive.

How do you stay in touch? Like how are you hearing about all of it? How do you stay in touch with like the latest and greatest in in tech? Whether you recognize it or not, you are definitely an early adopter.

Yeah. Cause I think I like from the beginning, have always had an interest in technology and what's new. The way that I think is very like visionary. Like, I wanna know what's next. I wanna know how to improve what I'm currently doing. So it's really about keeping your ears open and then when you get involved with something Yeah, I always think of the potential, right?

Like, oh yeah, so, so you mentioned clubhouse and I'm like, wow, this is, so I'm not just thinking about the conversations that I'm having having, but also. How are we using it to connect with people globally Sure. And give them, uh, able abilities to have a conversation they, they haven't had before. Right. So what is this going to mean?

And I always think of like systems change like shifting. Oh yeah. Global systems. And so what is this gonna mean for the future? And it may not be clubhouse, it might be that next iteration of the technology, right? But what does this mean for the future and. Like we talk about like cryptocurrency, digital currency.

So it's like, you know, why not be a part of this and like learn and get deeper. What's happening? Like I wanna be in the know, I wanna be in the next thing. And I think it's

Derek: fascinating that, you know, you are thinking about it in terms of people impact. Yeah. Right. Not how can I get rich off of this or whatever.

Like you're thinking about it is like, how can this technology enable people? And one of the other things that struck me doing a deep dive on your socials was how much volunteer experience you have, which kind of dovetails with how you're looking at. Technology. Right. What, what have been some of your favorite kind of volunteer opportunities?

Yeah. And then, you know, you know you're doing something good. But then I also like the heavy labor and. Something totally different than you would do. Like I don't build houses. Sure. I didn't accept with Habitat for Humanity, but it's something that you can kind of like just hone in or do something that you just normally would not be doing.

Yeah. Yeah. And

Derek: I something, yeah, something I noticed through some of your experiences and even past tweets, bring back memories here. Your love for animals. You kind of alluded to it Al already. You know, I also love zoos, aquariums. I'm a member at a, at a couple actually. Yes. What got you excited about that?

Did you like grow up with animals? Did, was there like an event that kind of spurred your, your love?

Yeah. I just used to be so fascinated by animals and their behavior. Yeah. And you know, it's, it's kind of like a, a thing that you don't see every day. Sure. And so I've always just really been into it and I actually believe cuz. I think I saw something where my grandfather, I think watched animal shows, and maybe that's where I got it from.

Yep. But, but yeah, I've always kind of been fascinated and just loved animals.

Derek: That's awesome. Do you think it's impacted your professional journey at all?

Kamilah: Oh, absolutely. Yeah, because I've always been into like sustainability and like saving animals. Okay. Oh sure. So I'll tell you a story. No, please. It's what we're here for.

This is a story that they tell like, I did not eat tuna. I would not eat tuna. Yeah. Like this is a regular thing that we have in our family. I would not eat it because of that. Right. Yeah. And so I think that that has really, it's, it's shaped me as far as like caring about the earth and like for sure.

Sustainability. And that's the space that I work in now. Yeah. And so it's kind of, and even now it's, it, what, the stuff that I do now is just like all of the things that I love from childhood. I was a. Biology major. Oh, in undergrad I switched it to art. Yeah. As graphic design, because my, cause I used to wanna like just go study animal behavior and be one of those people in the Yeah.

In the show. That's what

Derek: you wanted to be when you grew up. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like on Discovery Channel. I could totally see

The combination with what he said, and then also the class molecules in cell function. I was like, I do not care about the hundred things that I can name in a cell. I was like, this is not, yeah, that's quite the combination. Switched to art and graphic design. But I mean, the truth is like my undergrad was like in business and marketing, like I.

Interacting with people. So I think I, I think I went along the right path.

Derek: But did you, so why graphic design and art? Like, did you always have that interest? Were you a hobby artist, or,

Kamilah: uh, well, I will, like, I, we always kind of did things with our hands. My grandfather was a painter. My sister was, wow. Is an amazing artist.

Yeah, for sure. So I would just, you know, it's just something, you know, I thought, I thought graphic design was something that I could use and could be applicable to, you know, a career. Yeah. Which, It's, it is it definitely. It worked out.

Derek: Yeah, it worked out. That's for sure. Very cool. So I'm gonna show you a picture.

Okay. I want you to tell me what's going on. Oh boy. What's the background of the story? This is one of the happiest Oh, pictures it is I've ever seen.

Kamilah: Oh my God. So happy. It's our favorite picture. Yes. Yes.

Derek: It's a good one. What's going on here? Who is this person? What's

Kamilah: the event? Oh my gosh. So we are at Art and Business Council.

Yeah, in Nashville. Very cool. Using your art as, as business. But this, this was a party beforehand, right? Yeah. And this person is, her name is Leah Avery. Shout out. Yes. She is the queen of fun. And she actually, she's a game inventor. Yeah. So she Oh, wow. Invented a game called Hip Hop Char. Yeah. And other games too that she has, that she, you basically are, are playing charades, you're guessing in different terms, but it's, yeah, it's like for the culture, like it's about hip hop and things like that, like cool stuff.

So that's very cool. It's, it's super fun. But she's, she's just like a great, fun person and she's my person that I'm like, Hey, you wanna go with me to this day? Yeah. Yeah. And we go and we make such great connections and have such fun together. You know, very easy. So, yeah. And her name is Leanne

Derek: Le. Leah Avery.

Kamilah: Yeah. Okay. What's, what's going on here? So this is the Fashion Takes Action Wear conference.

Right. Okay. And so Fashion Takes Action is a organization space in Canada. But it's about sustainable fashion, right? Yeah. And it, I love this organization because they bring together so many different voices on really good topics. And this one was a panel that I was invited to speak at. Sure. It's called Storytelling With Impact.

Wow. So how do you tell your sustainable fashion story? Yeah. With impact and make it, you know, make an impact. Yeah.

Uh, that tugs at your heartstrings the most kind of, kind of

Kamilah: thing. I will say that the way that I work is more of a macro approach. Right. Okay, sure. And so, and, and this is kind of, you know, we can get into a deeper conversation about that this, but I'm really focused on. How can we shift the fashion industry system, which has to do with supply chain globally into a more sustainable, more sustainable, ethical system and really, yeah, almost creating a new system that is sustainable and ethical because the fashion industry has such like dire things when it comes to social, when it comes to environmental.

Derek: things. Is the primary gap there, like just education, or is there some, like a technical gap

Kamilah: or, oh, I mean, it's a system.

Yeah. Right? Yeah. So there's so many different. Areas that is the gap. But I will say as far as, as far as, so you have these large companies that are super resourced. Yeah. They can do whatever they want. I think the gap, if you're talking about local, more sustainable, ethical, smaller organizations. The gap is really coming together and sharing knowledge and resources.

So there's a bunch of people that are like, Hey, I wanna be sustainable, ethical designer. I wanna source things. But they don't have the resource, so they don't know where to get the resources. But then you have someone else that is like, oh, I've done it cuz I've, I've been in this for years and I've, I chose the sustainable, ethical path.

Derek: Yeah, no, a hundred percent. The next one is totally unrelated.

Kamilah: not prepared for any of this,

Derek: but go on. I'll give you a hint. It's from Tim Gunn.

Kamilah: Okay. Yes. I have

Derek: so many questions about

Kamilah: this. One. I retweeted that.

Derek: Has your stance on tights being pants changed since

Kamilah: 25? It has absolutely changed.

I, if I could go back, I would definitely, no.

just

Derek: That's fair. Tweeted that's a, that's a great way to cover tracks.

Kamilah: I'm people's a pain. I mean, no, I mean, it's true. It's true. It's absolutely true because, One of the things that I like to do is just put the message out there.

I don't you judge whether it's right or wrong. That's fair. It's a different point of view and so we just, we have to share different points of

Derek: views that I totally agree with that. On a more serious note, I love this one.

Derek: Yep. That's a, that's a good one, and that really summarizes. I'm willing to bet. And we're about to dive. The entrepreneur journey that you've been on, I'm willing to bet that that's, that's a theme. And you know, when, when the going gets tough, they say, right, I have

Kamilah: a whole Phoenix tattoo on my arm. That's amazing.

Like, that relates totally to that.

Kamilah: Oh boy. So the name is actually, Was supposed to be a clothing company that I made this up like decades ago.

Okay. Probably maybe more than that. I don't know. So greater than Equals supposed to be a clothing company. And I think, you know, that was at one point I was like, you know, cause I, I, you know, love fashion and I was thinking creative ideals in my head. So I'm like, oh, I wanna start a clothing brand. Not that I wouldn't in the future, but I think when I see it's hard.

I would see so many people spending so much money on clothes they probably don't need. Yeah. And then you see all of this other stuff in the world and you're like, this just doesn't make sense to me. Right. Yeah. And, and people are doing things in an unsustainable way, so it, it just never made sense to me to do that.

You can't just give everybody the same thing and people will still be, you know, unequal. Really. So it's more about equity, right? Sure. And so everything that we do is through an equity lens where what can we do to give people even more resources? To help them get to where they need to go. Right? Right. So it's whatever we're doing that's beyond what we think is necessary.

Derek: Yeah. And just to be clear for, for those listening who may not have heard of equity through that lens, right? Mm-hmm. Um, a lot of people may think equity, they think. You know, options or stock or Oh, yeah, yeah. Or something along those lines. Mm-hmm. Right. You're, you're talking about equity in the, the sense of justice, right?

Well,

Kamilah: I think it depends on the person or the organization. Sure. Right. Because I mean, you can have an impact just by just our meeting the first time. Sure. You know? Yeah, for sure. A conversation that we have or you can have a larger impact on a certain issue in the world, you know? Yeah. So it's, it's just that, it's just about shifting.

Things, whether it's a little bit Yeah. And it's planting a seed or whether it's a lot, you know, so it really depends on the person and what your, you know, purpose or your passion is Yeah. That you want to impact.

Derek: No, a hundred percent. And, and kind of related to that, I, I read a description of Greater and Equal that said, it's an international whole person vision-based leadership, consulting and marketing agency.

Yeah. This creative, this worker, this executive, this, et cetera. How are you kind of encouraging them to think? Who they are.

Kamilah: Yeah, so it's, it's typically like people will come and they say, oh, I have this one thing that I want to do. Can you help me with this project? Right. Yeah. But the way that I think of it, of it is that you have a long-term vision.

Right. Yeah. You have something in your head that you want to get to. How does this project align with that? Oh, cool. Yeah. How does it align with your family life? Yeah. Like you're a single mom, or you're married and you have kids. Yeah. Or you know, or you, or you don't have kids, you know, or whatever that is, you know?

Yeah. And how can you also look at what are your strengths? Sure. Like what's your passion? And so you're not necessarily. You say, okay, this is what I wanna do. But how you do it may be different than how you see someone else do it. Right. Because it really has a lot to do with your own personal self. Yeah.

Like yourself is, has to do with self discovery. Right. And I

Derek: think that's important because, you know, theoretically you could have two different people. Mm-hmm. Doing the same job. Right. Or wanting to accomplish the same thing. Mm-hmm. They both come to. For advice, consulting, strategy, alignment, et cetera.

Kamilah: company.

Derek: Yeah. Yeah, we'll get to

Kamilah: that. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Working, working for corporate and I did before too. Okay. But, but I always like, I always wanted to work for a nonprofit and social impact.

Yeah. Just saving the world. And yeah. It's like, whoa, what is happening here? Because I'm coming from. 20 plus years of experience. Yeah. Working in corporate where there's, you know, structure and plans and strategy and stuff like that. You know, and what I found in the nonprofit space are really social impact, social enterprise, whatever you wanna call it.

Sure. Is that there's people that have so many great ideas, so many great visions. That wanna make an impact on the world, but they don't have the resources to do it. Right. So I would go to different events and, you know, talk to different executive directors and they would be like, oh, you're marketing, what do I do with this?

How do I connect with these people? How do I get more volunteers? How do I, you know, come up with a strategy for this? And I'm, you know, I'm sitting there talking to them, like telling them the answers. And, and I mean, it was just so many people that I'm connecting with and, and helping, and I. I can kind of, I could do this on, you're right.

Derek: people.

Got it. So by starting greater than. It's, Hey, I'm taking my role as director at this nonprofit social enterprise, et cetera, and I'm, I can basically multiply myself, right? Yeah. And instead of doing it for one, I can now do it for as many clients as I can take on at, at a time. Is that kind of the thinking?

Yeah. Yeah. That was my thinking. Yeah. It's about impact multiplication. So, but at some point the rubber meets the road, right? And you have to. Put in your two week notice and say, I'm going to do this. Yeah. And you know, talk to me through that. Like, was that nerve wracking? Were you kind of, did you ease into it and knew that, hey, I can actually sustain myself, you know, what did that

Okay. You're getting to a deep conversation now. Yeah. It's hard. So to be honest with you, in, okay, so there is a glass ceiling and I know people say, no, there's not. There is, there's not. But talking to a lot of people, whether you are. Uh, of color, you know? Sure. Or you're a female or whatever else. Yeah.

There's sometimes you get to the executive level and I've been at the executive level for of course while with, you know, my work history. Yeah. But sometimes you get there and people don't really want you there. Yeah. Cuz you know more than them or whatever that reason is, they feel uncomfortable. Right.

Sure. And this is a common thing, which I actually think is a great thing, and I'll say this, just. Now we're getting those voices and they're becoming entrepreneurs and they're doing things, yeah. The way that they wanna do it. So really that was my situation and more that I feel like I was kind of pushed out that, of that.

Sure. So it was kind of, but I didn't know like, what that was. Yeah. That I was like keeping up and falling, like how to be an entrepreneur and stuff like that, because I never had any desire to, cause I worked for corporate, I have, you know, I have a 401k. I was like, why, why would I wanna, you know, start my own business.

But, yeah, so, so yeah. No, but then later on it just, like, it clicked, it made sense. Yeah. Like this is, this is the time to do. Yeah. Yeah.

I think it's one of the fascinating things is like the, the glass ceilings that minorities often run into, sometimes it pushes them to take. Step. It does. Oh yeah. Which is amazing, right? It's like, you know, you had the foresight to make the decision like, Hey, if this doesn't work out for whatever reason, I'm gonna be an entrepreneur.

And then the impetus to use your word right, was, was that glass ceiling that you broke through on your own. I think that's, that's awesome.

Kamilah: Yeah. And I will say that I think I, I think for a few years I knew that I needed to do, But I thought that that was, I would actually went through a journey of self-discovery.

Was told like, you work for somebody, that's how you make money. Oh, fascinating. You work for somebody. Wow. Yeah. Right. And so if I had in my mindset that entrepreneurship was an option, then I probably would've done it sooner, but I just had to kind of break. Wow. Outta that mindset. That's,

Derek: that's wild.

Especially after hearing, like you talked about your family briefly earlier. It's like there's definitely a creative shrie Yeah. There, but that like societal context. Yeah, of, we work for other people,

Kamilah: we work for other people. You cannot have a career as an artist. Like that's not a thriving, that's wild.

That's not an actual career. Yeah. Like you have to go and you have to attend so many years of school and then you have to get a job in a certain field. Yeah. Like that's, that's a lot of people's story. Like that's what they've been told. They have not. And, and I think that's why I'm such a, like you saw, I was at the Art and Business Council.

Derek: It is. And, and that's amazing. And it's one of the, the reasons that I'm excited about like kind of where the digital world is going.

Right? And so, you know, along those lines of Web three and giving ownership and freedom back to artists, regardless. Gender, race, identity, et cetera. How did you come across the tech, right? How did you, because I know you're a big fan of, of kind of Web three and crypto technology. How did, how was it introduced to you?

How did you learn

Yeah. And they're, you, it has its own economy where you can make clothes and sell clothes, kinda like what they're doing now. I think it was before its time. It was, I had a, I was in, I worked in financial services for a while and so, and I had a good friend that was into tech and so it just kind of made sense.

Like I mentioned, like thinking about the future of. Currency, right? Yeah. And so it, it made sense to get into it, it made sense for the technology, even in corporate, like we were doing blockchain and ar, we were demoing AR for industry. Yeah, sure. And, uh, so it was, it was technologies that we all use. But now people are, now it's becoming mainstream.

Yeah, yeah. You know, so I think that's, it's like, oh, okay. And then actually getting to experience it and you see how, how this is like kind of breaking barriers. Yeah.

Derek: What are some of the coolest applications that you've seen so far?

Yeah, sure. Applications. And I think AI is kind of cool because everyone knows what that is. Like, everyone, like we saw the movie That's right. Yeah. Our robot and all this stuff like that. So we're, everyone's kind of like, oh no, you know? Yeah. But you know what it is, right? Yeah. And so it's, it's kind of turning that on its head and saying, oh no, you can actually use.

For something That's good. And so people are starting to understand that. I love the thought of a doo Yeah, too. Cuz it's decentralized. Yep. And and it's like, it's now it's, it's giving, I feel like it's giving power to people, to groups of people to make and do things together. Right? Yeah. And it's connecting people.

So when

Kamilah: to someone. Okay. Depends on who I'm talking to. Sure. But I would say that a Doo is a decentralized au autonomous organization. Yeah. Autonomous means that things are happening automatically, but I, I would almost just say that it's the next way that people are going to be doing business.

Okay. Yeah. In a way and. Yeah, I mean, that's what I was saying. Yeah's, the next one, just, just to simplify it, right, it's, it's decentralized, meaning that there's not one person at the top that's telling people what to do, but you are deciding as a group what that organization needs to do. Yeah. I mean we can, it's kinda like a, into a whole deeper conversation about the Yeah.

It's hard to say like very concisely cuz there's so many nuances to it. Yeah.

Kamilah: yeah. I think vegetables like farmer's market.

Exactly.

Derek: Kind of whole foods, but like taking that and applying it to anything, creativity, business, et cetera. Is that kind of Yeah. In, in the realm. So I also know, and you've mentioned it a couple times, that you're passionate about fashion. Yes. And, and work kind of in the fashion industry. How'd that?

Kamilah: Oh, so I grew up with fashion.

Okay. Because my mom was super interested in fashion. Like we had Vogue Magazine on our table. Oh, wow. Watching the runway shows. Yeah. Everything. She makes clothes. Right. Okay. So she, you know, is always sewing our clothes when we needed something, like she would sew it. And so I kind of. Carried that on. I mean, to me, like fashion is art too.

Throughout my life. So it's something that carried through and I used to work. That's really cool. I used to work in like retail apparel. Okay. So,

Derek: yeah. That's very cool. And then, so when you start learning this new tech and seeing ar, ai, web three, et cetera mm-hmm. It's natural for you to think about. Oh, this can apply to fashion in these ways.

Or I'm talking to a creative in fashion and I can actually do the translation

Kamilah: and, yeah, exactly. It's like, it's like, I guess that you asked yourself the right questions. How can this apply to fashion? Yeah, sure. And then you, you know, figure that out. So yeah, definitely I can, I can do that. And then we talked about sustainability.

Oh yeah, for sure. And fashion and tech. I feel like at this moment I'm like, all of my favorite things are coming together. Yeah, that's cool.

Kamilah: favorite? Oh gosh, there's so many.

Sure. I'll just tell you kind of my vision in a few different things. Yeah. But so for me, like I talk to a lot. Designers or organizations that are in like maybe Africa, Ghana, wherever. Sure. In India. And so these are global, I mean, I'm sorry, these are organizations or people that are making goods or artisans or they're making fashion, but how do they go to market?

Do they Ah, yeah. Do they go and sell to like a TJ Max or something like that? And they're not really getting, they're getting pennies on a dollar for what they. Or do they, can they go to market in a way where they can reach people globally? So say for example, I go into the Metaverse and I go into this store.

Right. Yeah. And it'll come to me. So I think that there's so many technologies. We, we talked about tryon. Yeah, and, and that's basically where you can use, you can use ai, but you can use virtual technology to try on something that reduces returns, right? Yep. But then also what I've been fascinated with lately is artificial intelligence and fashions.

Sure. So a lot of people are using artificial intelligence to design gar. Oh, that's cool. Yeah,

Derek: that would like from text, so I tell it what I want and it'll design

Kamilah: something. Well, it's, it's, it you kind of like, it's based on like images, right? Okay. That, that you can, you give it a lot of guidance and say like, what, what you want.

Yeah. So there's, there was a Nike, there's a Nike and Tiffany. You know Tiffany and to the jewelry company. Collaboration. Yes. Collaboration. And so what's crazy is that I, well, if you follow me on TikTok, you'll see. I repost it, I think. But so what's crazy is that the shoe is like, I think it looks like a air, like a black regular black Air Force, one Nike shoe.

Yeah. And they could have created the thing in real life, you know? Yeah. To assist with it. Or even like companies like dress. You designed something and I think they actually have a contest or something, but you designed something and it's a virtual clothing, and then through their app you can try it on, you can wear it, you can, you know, post pictures with you in this cool outfit that actually doesn't exist.

That's crazy.

Derek: Yeah. How far away do you think we are from that

Kamilah: being normal? Oh, what is the tipping point? Yeah. Oh, I mean, I cannot tell, but it seems like technology is just moving at the speed of light. Yeah. Especially now that all of these big companies are getting on board. Yeah. The Nike, they want it to be normal.

I do want to predict the future because I know this is being recorded and I can go back and say I was, no, that's right. Only five years old. Well,

the

Derek: cool thing, the cool thing about this is that if you're wrong, It doesn't matter. Yeah, if you're right though. If I'm right though, it's

Kamilah: everything. Hold on.

Lemme, lemme, lemme predict the future. I say I'm gonna give it where it's, where it's normal. Where it's mainstream. Yeah. Four years time. Four years.

Derek: And people will be virtually trying on clothes.

Kamilah: I mean, they're already doing this designing. I think that's what people don't realize. Like when I, I did an event and part of it was in the metaverse and I had to like get people to the event in the metaverse.

Yeah, because Pretty cool. That's crazy. Yeah. But, um, but people, I was like, there's people already there. Like, people were like, should I put my business in the. Yes. Because there's already people, there are already customers that are already there. Yeah. Waiting for you. Right. That's crazy. So people don't realize, like people do this already.

Derek: Maybe I'll ask a few more questions. You're like, next week

Kamilah: it's, it's here now. What are you talking about?

We're tipping. That's cool.

Derek: That, that's, that's amazing. And you've been, you know, kind of doing greater than equal for what, four years now? What's been the hardest thing that you've had to go through as a part of the greater than equal

Kamilah: journey? Oh, wow. I think that, The hardest thing about having your own business is you don't realize the number of pivots and the number of like, it is, it is a journey of self-discovery, right?

There was what, a year to start a business, right? There was a tornado. Yeah. And it was the beginning of the pandemic, right? Yeah. So I was working with, and I had, you know, a Rolodex full, not that anyone uses Rolodex or even though don't talk about Wait, you

Derek: mean an actual Rolodex?

Kamilah: It's a term, it's just that you wouldn't understand.

Derek: No. If you're listening a. Is kind of like if you printed out your LinkedIn profile,

Kamilah: do not date me. No. Okay. Yeah. Anyway, yeah, so I had a bunch of contacts who were, that were social enterprises or social impact organizations and that, you know, like I said, they, they needed help with their marketing and.

Social impact organization. And then I pivoted mm-hmm. At that point, right. Because one, I've, you know, I, my vision is international, right? Sure. So now that everyone's like glued to their computer, I started doing more things that are international. Okay. And working with people international. So that was great because I love doing that.

But then also I said, well, why not? I focus on art and fashion because those are two things that I was really passionate about doing. Sure. And then it is my background and everything. Like I really wanna niche down to that. But then also I started focusing on more on events because I love doing events.

Or it might be like, who knows? But just going through that journey of figuring out like, okay, this works, this doesn't, let me shift this. You know? Did,

Derek: did you ever. I'm trying to figure out how, to, the best way to phrase the, the question like, did you get, did you attach who you were to that? And so every pivot hurt a little bit.

It's like, do I know what I'm doing? Like the imposter syndrome type type thing? Or was it like, only now looking back you can see that that was

Kamilah: painful. I don't know that it was. I don't know that every pivot was painful. Okay. Because doing things internationally is exciting. Sure. Doing things with the art and fashion is exciting.

I'm trying to remember the question, but, but I think the part that was painful maybe is like not knowing so, so,

Derek: so knowing you need to leave what you were doing, but not always knowing where to.

Kamilah: I think, I think in business, like for me. Okay. So, so business like, I, I kind of think, oh, you have to, you know, just bootstrap.

Sure. Write that part. Yeah. I think is is painful. More painful? Yeah. It's painful to bootstrap. No, I think, I think, but I never knew that there were like fellowships and there's all these grants. People wanna give you money to start your business and you can do this and you can do that. So it's so many things that I learned along the way and I was like, man, if I'd a, if I'd known.

Like you're not always gonna get it 100%. Yeah. The first time. No, a

Derek: hundred percent that, that's exactly right. Like, why hasn't any of that stopped you? What do you think it is? You greater than equal? The mission. Yeah. Because a lot of people may have given up. It's like, I'm bootstrapping, the money is tight.

I could go get a corporate job somewhere else. You can't. I've got experience. Easily get a, yeah. What, what do you think it, it was that? Kept

Kamilah: you going. I think it's, I think it's your passion that keeps you going, right? Sure. And, and, and actually knowing your purpose in a way. Like, I, like I told you, like I did like a lot of self-discovery and I'm like, yeah, this is the direction that I need to head into the, this is the time for this.

In his book, buying Your Wire, start With Why. Yeah. And going through like those exercises you come up with like your personal mission. Yeah. And so you kind of know like this, I need to be doing something that has to do with this. Yeah. And I know I'm very visionary. I'm very like, I wanna make a big impact on the world and.

I know that that's, that's just what, that's just what you have to do. Yeah.

Derek: That's cool. I mean, some people call it stubbornness, some people call it grit. It's just love and attachment to the passion.

Kamilah: Like yeah, you have to, something's gonna, has to push you, you know? Yeah. You have to just keep pushing through.

Yeah. Because you're learning something that you didn't know before that you can apply to your business. So I think it's all those things, just like you have to keep feeding yourself. Yeah. That's really cool. This positivity to keep going.

Thoughts on being here? You've been here 10 years almost.

Kamilah: I love it. Yeah. Wait, I'm still here. No, in Nashville is great. Actually. I'm coming from DC I used to drive like an hour and a half each way to work. Oof. In traffic. That's tough. Um, you know, cost of living at, I can't say, you know, it's, It's pretty high here too, right?

So I like it. I think my only impression that was kind of negative, Nashville is very, or at least it was when I first came here. It's very segregated. Yeah. Like it's very diverse. Yeah. But people kind of stay in their own pockets. Yeah. And I think that now people are moving from New York and LA or wherever they're moving from, and they're like, what?

What is this? Yeah. Why don't y'all go out the house? What, what? Why aren't y'all, why isn't people going to this establishment? So I think that that's shifting. I think it's changing, but that's

Derek: awesome. Yeah. And we've met at a couple community events at this at this point. Yeah. We interacted. Oh yeah. And so when you talk about finding your people, it seems like you, you have a good group of folks around you that are entrepreneurs, startup people.

Yeah.

Kamilah: You gotta, you gotta go to these events and stuff that, you know, surround yourself with people that are talking about that stuff. That's, yeah.

Favorite spot. Could be casual, could be fancy. Oh, doesn't

Kamilah: matter. Oh, wow. Favorite spot to eat in Nashville. Oh, I'm gonna say Slim and Huskies. Oh, good one. And I think it's because you can, it's just like there's a whole vibe in there, right? Yeah. And you know you're gonna eat something good. And it's always the place that I like to take people to.

You know, like you have to experience this, but it's just, it's just kind of laid back and it actually feels good to like, you know, support people too. A hundred percent. So, you know, you, you like all around you're having a great experience.

Derek: Yeah. For those of you who may be in Nashville listening, a Buchanan Arts district, slim Huskies is amazing.

So you're gonna throw some headphones in and go work somewhere. Cup of coffee, cup of tea, something like that. Where are you headed? Where's your favorite coffee shop or tea shop or spot?

So I like, you know, it's close, it's easy, and I know I'm gonna see someone there that I can connect with and do some business with, so. Yeah. That's

Derek: awesome. All right. So you, you've, at this point we've had a, a meal at Slim and Huskies. You've gotten some work done at Yaya's. Yeah. After hours. Where are you?

It's favorite spot for drinks to hang out.

Kamilah: Ooh. Favorite spot for drinks to hang out. So it depends. Cause what I would, I would probably go to multiple places. So I'm always gonna be at the art opening. Right? Yeah, so, so that might be at like, say gallery. You know, Clarence always has these really cool art events and openings.

So, yeah. Yeah.

Derek: Well, my next question was gonna be the best spot for creatives, but I think you probably answered that with the art galleries, Clarence and et cetera. So last question is say I'm an out of towner towner. I'm coming in for a weekend. Of course, I'm gonna do. Party Bus Broadway music.

Kamilah: So you don't do that, but if you must, everybody has to do it.

Go ahead. Just do it once. It's, I might not be with you, but

Derek: Yeah, go ahead. Exactly. Do it. Yeah. It's like Times Square New York. Yeah. Like go see it and then ignore it. But what's the hidden gem that you want to point someone to here in Nashville? Like, look, if you're only here for three days, Uh huh. You gotta check out

Kamilah: X Oh gosh.

That I didn't name, because I usually am like, oh, you gotta go to Slim Huskies. Sure. Um, if there's, if Clarence is having an event Okay. Yeah. Then whether it's, you know, he has, so Clarence Edwards that I'm talking to, sure. Just Google it, everyone. But, but, but he usually might. Some event that's associated with what he's doing.

Yeah, are happening. There's an event tonight, it's called Nashville's. Yeah, it's a Brooklyn Bowl and that happens once a month. Okay, cool. So if you're coming on the right weekend, then I can probably tell you where to go, but that'd be the right

Derek: weekend. That's a totally Nashville thing too. Very cool. So what, you know, last piece here, what would you say to someone who's listening right now, and maybe they're a person of color, maybe they're a woman, maybe they've hit that glass ceiling they've been thinking about Start.

Kamilah: I would tell them to take a leap of faith. Yeah. Yeah. I would, and I think I would tell them to, you know, it's something.

Don't, don't spend years and years of your life thinking about what you could have done. Yeah. A hundred percent or what you should have done. It's amazing. Yeah. Like your, if you start now, your life is gonna be so much better. Like start to build it now. Cuz like I said, yeah, it's a process. Yeah. So you're not gonna be perfect right away, but you'll eventually get to it.

You know, just, I mean, there's so many tools out there, like don't think that you are alone. Yeah. In the journey.

Derek: That's a amazing, amazing words from Camilla. So time to shamelessly plug. What's going on in your life? Where can people find out more about you? About greater than Equal? You know, where can people learn

Kamilah: more?

Yeah. So, okay. So you know, I am super into passion, sustainable fashion. Fashion. I want to, I want us to create a new system. I want to. People in sustainable fashion to resources to be more ethical and sustainable. So through Greater Than Equal, we're launching in initiatives called Fashion Futurist. Oh. So it's really a community of people, but we'll have YouTube we'll have that will help brands to get resources, get connected, and then also a podcast that's talking about innovative things that people are, Help you get connected there, and there's a whole roadmap.

So you can catch me

Derek: there. That's amazing. Yeah. Well, we'll have to get you a, a bunch for fashion futurist as well, a community. Uh, very cool. Well, thanks again for the time and have a great rest of your day. Yo. What's up everybody? It's Derek again. If you enjoyed the conversation, do us a favor by both subscribing and sharing.

Start something with your friends. Thanks a ton for listening. Talk to you again soon, and until then, we love you bunches.