Summary

In this episode of The Zekely Podcast, host Zeke interviews Allen Kukovich, a former Pennsylvania state legislator with over three decades of public service. They discuss Kukovich's impactful work, including the creation of the Children's Health Insurance Program (CHIP), his views on democracy, empathy in politics, and the importance of mentoring future leaders. Kukovich reflects on his experiences, the current political landscape, and the need for continued engagement in democracy. The conversation emphasizes the significance of empathy, social justice, and the legacy of public service.

Chapters

00:00 Introduction to Allen Kukovich

01:37 Kent State

04:04 First Date

05:46 CHIP

09:26 Why Democrat?

10:23 Rapid Fire

11:13 Injustice

12:39 Budget War

14:01 Age is Just a Number

15:52 Listen

18:53 Senior Citizen

21:01 The Fragility of Democracy

23:26 Leading Progressive Change

25:02 Ahead of the Curve

27:55 Mad Libs

30:25 Preparing Future Leaders

33:35 Finding Hope

34:48 The Future

35:28 Wrap-Up

Full Video Episode Available On YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@TheZekelyPodcast

Short Clips Can Be Found On TikTok: @drzeketayler/@thezekelypodcast and Instagram: @thezekelypodcast

www.thezekelypodcast.com

Hello, I'm Zeke and welcome to The Zekely Podcast. Let's talk Pennsylvania. The guest I have today lives in Manor, Pennsylvania, who was dedicated more than three decades to public service. He's been a member of the state house and the state Senate, passed landmark legislation

has instilled a rich legacy of Democratic principles in the Commonwealth. Thank you so much for being here, Allen Kukovich.

I’m Zeke, a doctor, a Pennsylvanian and unapologetic supporter of Democratic values. You might have seen me on social media working my ass off for Democrats and meeting some pretty amazing people along the way - like President Barack Obama and Governor Josh Shapiro.

For years, I’ve knocked thousands of doors all over Pennsylvania and poured my heart and soul into supporting candidates and causes that make a difference—from local school board races to national elections. The personal is political, and I take every election in Pennsylvania personally.

Where the mainstream media has failed you, I will give you truth and independence. You’ll hear from Democratic leaders, candidates, and change-makers who are working to improve the health of the Commonwealth, and it won’t be boring as hell.

No matter where you are, I’ll meet you with hope and a plan to make your community better one day at a time. Welcome to the Zekely Podcast. Let’s talk Pennsylvania.

Good to be with you, Zeke.

my gosh, you I heard your story from Michelle Millen-McFall, who says that you are still her mentor in so many ways. And I love history and I love people that have delivered for the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania. So I had to have you on.

Well, I appreciate that. I appreciate your kind words.

Absolutely. Well, we're going to learn all about you, play some games and have some fun. Are ready? All right.

I'm ready.

Well, most people like to keep dating conversations light, but I understand on your first date with your wife, Nancy, you brought up the Kent State shootings, which was also known as the Kent State Massacre, where four unarmed college students were killed by the Ohio National Guard because of protesting the Vietnam War. So what brought that into your first date conversation?

Well, it had a profound impact on me, what happened on May 4th, 1970.

It's probably why I got into public service. So that's why I shared that with her on the first date, though I'm not sure it wasn't the wisest course of action perhaps, but.

Well, it

clearly didn't deter her from your courtship, clearly. But I mean, that's powerful stuff to talk about. I mean, in today's atmosphere, where you see a president of the United States sending troops against its citizens

You

always say, the US government would never fire on its own citizens. But we've seen that time and time again during the Black Lives Matter protests and even protests recently.

against ICE and the National Guard. So does it feel full circle for you in many ways?

Yeah, as a matter of fact, I spoke at one of the first No Kings events out in Westmoreland County, and I mentioned sort of offhand that I've experienced this, what happens when the military comes into a town, which probably I got more responses to than anything else I said. And I hadn't even thought about that till that day. And then I thought back to what happened back in 1970. And it's never good whenever that happens.

Mm-hmm.

No,

it always feels like the past is prologue in so many different circumstances, but I just find it interesting that you brought that up on your first date. What was Nancy's counter? Did she have any deep thoughts that she brought to the table?

is.

I don't recall. I know she said that in a video that some folks did and I had forgotten about it. But I don't know how she responded. it worked out. I guess she saw my soft side from that.

huh. Forgot all

Clearly, I mean, you're a very passionate guy and ⁓ you fight for everyone. And I'm sure that she saw that through that story that you told at your first dinner date. And all these years later, I'm sure she still feels the same way about you.

Hey, thank you so much for listening to this episode of The Zekely Podcast. And if you're enjoying yourself, please take a moment to rate my podcast. Five stars would be great. Leave a comment as well. Okay, back to the show.

right, well, let's play our first game. Okay, and I call it first date. Okay, so you're gonna give me a red flag or a green flag. So we're gonna be on our first date together, okay, Allen? And so we're at worst, we just sat down together, okay? And I'm looking at you and I say, you I love the gender neutral bathrooms at this restaurant. Is that a green flag for you or a red flag for you?

Okay.

⁓

That would be a green flag, yes.

Green flag, good, great. Okay,

so we're gonna continue our ordering some appetizers, okay? So now we're gonna get some drinks. And I say to you, Allen, I heard that the server is recently unionized here. Isn't that wonderful, Allen? Isn't that great? Is that a green flag for you too? Okay, so good. So we'll enjoy our drinks together. Okay, now the appetizers have just arrived. Okay, I'm gonna drop this one on you. ⁓ I hope there aren't any undocumented immigrants working here. That would really bother me.

⁓ that's definitely a green flag.

That would definitely be a red flag.

Is that a red flag or a green flag for you?

Okay, so you might be ordering the bill early. All right, let's see we can salvage this date. All right, so the main course is here, okay? And I say, you know, I don't think jobs should have to provide their workers with maternity leave. What do you think? Are we getting hotter or colder?

That's a waving red flag.

waving red flag. Okay, fine. Well, let's see if we can get the dessert. Okay. I say, Allen, the minimum wage in Pennsylvania is too low compared to the states around us. Would you agree with me?

Yes, yes.

all the states need to an obligation to raise their minimum wage, particularly here in Pennsylvania.

Yeah, I knew that'd be a green flag for you. All right, so we can enjoy dessert together, Allen. Perfect. Perfect. Well, exactly. It's it. know, life is uncertain. Eat dessert first.

good. My favorite part of the meal.

So Allen, you were the architect of the Children's Health Insurance Program, or CHIP, which later served as a model for the federal government CHIP program and provides millions of children with free

for low cost health insurance each year. I just can on talking to you. I'm talking to the architect of CHIP. And it started in Pennsylvania because of you. people used to have to choose between feeding their families and taking their kids to the doctor until this program got started. And I heard that after the law was passed, there were lines of people waiting to sign up in Pennsylvania. That must have been such an emotional thing for you to see.

It really was. I had no idea what the response would be like because

first problem after the bill became law was I referred to it as a too good to be true

because

Mm-hmm.

if you were poor enough, you could get medical assistance. But for a lot of working families, the employer no longer provided healthcare and they couldn't afford healthcare for their kids or themselves.

So this really

hit home with more people than I probably had realized at the time. And one other thing I also didn't realize was the fear factor for parents. Parents who were afraid to let their kids play sports or do a lot of things other kids normally take for granted because they were afraid they might get hurt. And then what would they do? So it was, yeah, well, I didn't at the time

Mm-hmm. wouldn't even think about that. Yeah.

either.

I'd been seeing the statistics. I had tried to deal earlier than the CHIP bill with a broader healthcare bill. And I was getting

lot of pushback from the insurance industry and from all the big power groups. Even the medical society wasn't happy with it. But the only thing I had a real shot was with children. It was harder politically to be against that. And so I made a calculated decision to just go with the children's aspect of it.

Mm-hmm.

If not, that never would have

And it worked out. And the response was unbelievable. I remember the first time

thing.

was enacted into law officially, I had a representative from

Mm-hmm.

high market in my office and we had a little squib in a newspaper advertising you could sign up. And that's where I first saw the lines were wrapped around the office first thing in the morning. And I remember there were TV cameras there and one of the camera women said, realized after I went through it, oh my goodness, I qualify for this. I don't get health insurance from

media outlet I worked for. And so it had a much broader impact than I ever realized.

just phenomenal. mean,

it just takes me back to

the Affordable Care Act was, you know, signed into law. And, you know, Joe Biden said, this is a big fucking deal.

I mean, what you did in Pennsylvania is a big deal. And you saved millions of Pennsylvanians lives by simply giving them access to healthcare that a day prior they did not have access to. That parents who had children who were afraid that their kids participate in sports could let them do that now. That is a legacy that nobody can take away from you, Allen. And I'm just so, it's such an honor to talk to someone who did something for the Commonwealth, for the entire country because

Yeah, it was incredible.

shit then.

clearly Congress saw what you did and replicated that on a national level. And that is something that will echo through

Well, I also learned from that experience that you can have all the data that you can get. But the real power comes from individuals. And I remember talking to a woman who lived less than a mile away from me back when I was formulating the chip bill. her husband had been killed in a traffic accident, two young sons. She not only lost her husband, she lost her health insurance and the health insurance for the kids.

Yeah.

Yeah.

One of the kids had a heart defect and they couldn't afford to surgery until the chip bill went through.

And democracy works best when elected officials listen to those folks and use the power of the state to broaden it and make it meaningful.

Well, Allen, why are you a Democrat? And why, after all these years, do you choose to represent the Democratic Party?

Well, it probably goes back to Kent State whenever the governor and the president were Republicans then they were the ones that sent the military and Richard Nixon was president. So I probably considered myself back around the time I was back then. couldn't vote till you were 21. That's how old I am. But about that time I consider myself to be independent. But when I saw what was happening with Richard Nixon and

my gosh.

And when I reflected on the programs that Democrats had created like Medicare and Social Security, it was a natural fit for me.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah, it sounds like that you hold the same values and ideologies that I hold as a Democrat to help the most people and you believe that done properly, government works. It does, it helps people.

Absolutely, absolutely.

All let's do a rapid fire round, okay? Learn a little bit about Allen Kukovich. Would you rather go ski in Colorado or an all-inclusive resort in Mexico?

I probably got somewhere where it was warm side up from Mexico.

Warm. Okay, fine.

Someplace warm, all inclusive. Lots of guacamole. I like it. We're on the same page. Good. All right. How about a Taylor Swift or Beyonce?

Hahaha

boy. I guess I'm going to have to go with Beyonce.

Beyonce, Queen B, can't go wrong with Queen B, I love it. Steak or sushi?

Hmm. It's another tough one. I'd probably stay with the steak. I'd get a little more protein that way.

Yeah.

Yeah, that's good. You can also always do surf and turf, you know, you can't go wrong with that. All right, here's the last one. Love is blind or stranger things.

It works, that works.

Probably love is blind.

that's amazing. My wife is going to love you for that. That is hilarious.

you

Allen, how did your practice as a lawyer open your eyes to societal injustices?

A large part of my law practice, did pro bono work. One of the most frustrating things was sometimes I would have clients who I knew were right.

morally, but the law wasn't always on their side. You couldn't always win. And I thought, boy, if I could change that law, if I could make the law better, it helps so many more people than me, or taking case by case. And a lot of politics is good luck, being the right place at the right time. And I ran at a time where if I'd waited maybe a year or two longer, I couldn't have afforded to leave the law practice and go off into it. So the timing was just right for me.

dropped the law practice entirely and worked hard at it and won.

That's great. It sounds like you wanted to help the most amount of people as well. And you could do that a lot more through the legislature than you could as an attorney.

so and I'll never forget when I went on my interview for fellowship, there was someone who an anesthesiologist who said, you know, as an anesthesiologist, I can help a couple hundred people a year as a critical care physician, I can help a couple thousand. But as a researcher, I can help millions. And so as an attorney, you could probably help maybe a couple hundred thousand people a year. But as a member of the legislature, you can help millions of Pennsylvanians every year. And you have and your work has for many, many years after you.

stop serving. So that makes a lot of sense to

What's your reaction to the last budget war in Harrisburg due to the Republican controlled Senate? Over 140 days it took to get a budget because of Republicans in the state Senate holding it up.

It goes back to that feelings rather than facts thing. And I think it was more political than substantive.

Yeah.

so there were some Republicans wanted to make, the governor usually pays the ultimate penalty for late budgets. So they thought maybe they could hurt Governor Shapiro. The other aspect was a part of that Republican caucus didn't ever want to vote for any budget. So it didn't matter to them.

Yeah.

Yeah,

right.

I'm sure the Republican leadership would have liked to have gotten it done sooner also, but their hands were tied. They couldn't provide the votes.

No, it's crazy. mean, at least when you were serving, you know, back in the 80s and 90s, Republican politicians actually tried to govern. But these days they they want to prove that government doesn't work by literally making sure it doesn't work. And that's the issue.

Yeah, the anti-government thing is part of the anti-education, anti-science thing that's done so much damage to this country.

Right.

yeah, I miss those Republicans from those days because they did have that sense of governance. And that's gone now.

It's crazy

that you utter the words, I miss those kinds of Republicans. It's crazy.

Yeah, that's right. It's true.

Allen, you are 78 years old and nobody would ever question if you packed it up, went someplace warm to live out your days. Maybe your wife might even prefer that, but instead you're leaning. ⁓ okay, fine.

Well, she's originally from Minnesota, so so Western Pennsylvania

seems like a warm way into her.

Well, fine, know, go build an igloo

somewhere or something, but instead, you are leaning into the work. It's a part of you, isn't it?

Well, when I first started in office, I was somewhat naive. thought I could, had all the answers. I could solve all these problems and move on. But you're never really done. And I realized the most important thing I could do is lay the groundwork for others to follow, for younger people to come on and take over and have the right ideas. And so I try to spend as much of my time as possible helping organizations and new people and getting people involved.

So that's very rewarding to me.

As long as you see injustices, you can't stop trying to repair the world. I'm sure that's how you feel.

I speak at a of colleges and high schools and I tell the young

I want you to obviously worry about your career and your financial security, but at some point in your life, it's important for you to take on a cause that's bigger than

And that's one of things that bothers me about the lack of civic education we've been going through for about 25, 30 years in schools now. And I think students can grasp that concept

about something bigger than themselves, but they don't understand the role the government can play in bringing that to some sort

makes sense. I'm glad. Keep talking to people as long as I listen. Keep talking to the youth because they need to have positive democratic messaging as much as they can get it.

Absolutely.

You're halfway through the episode and you're still here. I hope you're enjoying yourself. Please take a moment to rate my podcast. Five stars would be great and leave a comment as well. Okay, back to the show.

Allen, people with disabilities, low income, senior citizens, women, you listened to all of them. But my question for you is why? What compelled you to listen? Because not everyone does.

I might not be the smartest person in the legislature or the strongest or whatever, but I've always had a sense of empathy. I suppose I got that being a young person and what I experienced. I never liked bullies, for example. And sometimes in politics, you'll see bullies who are only in there for the

And so I was able to empathize with people, whether they had ⁓ disabilities of some sort or other. One of the first people I met when I got to Harrisburg was an attorney, a young woman who had gone to school in Berkeley. Very bright, could have made a lot of money, but she made very little because she only worked for individuals and groups, advocates for people with disabilities. And I listened, I learned a lot from her.

and it got me involved. And I was able to also make the case on the floor of the house that if we provided these services, in the long run, we'd save the taxpayer

there were some political arguments to it also. But one of the weaknesses we have now, when politically, is there's, it's such a short.

attention span type of society, especially in the legislature, because there's always an election next year.

real courage in politics means making decisions today that will help the common good in the long run, not just to make you look good for this next coming election. And that's one of the hardest things to overcome right now.

Empathy. I love that you bring that up because it is, I believe, the Democratic Party's superpower. And the Republican Party believes it's a weakness. It's a huge weakness. You see people like Elon Musk, Donald Trump, and all of his sycophants basically saying that empathy is the sickness that is ruining this country. And I couldn't disagree more. I think empathy is one of the most important things that we have as human beings to help fellow human beings. And I can tell you, in the hospital,

Nobody would want someone like Donald Trump to be their doctor.

No one would want someone like Steve Bannon or Elon Musk or any of these. Empathy is what someone who is suffering needs. Their family members at the bedside need empathy. And I'm just so glad that you said that that is what helped you bridge the divide between all of these different communities and you, and then to put that into your work as a state legislator to make laws to help their lives better and obviously to

improve the Commonwealth and decrease spending and improve, you know, overall welfare of everyone who's living here.

I found out a long time ago that especially working with people with disabilities who I came to admire quite a bit for their strength and their courage, I started referring to myself as temporarily abled because I know at some point I would be needing this kind of services that we all do eventually.

That's right. That's right. Yeah, we are all

we all do eventually we are just one step away from becoming disabled and as we age and get older we do need help from others and empathy is what helps us get through those times. So

Absolutely.

Okay, let's play a little game. I call it senior citizen and that you know, I don't mean that in an offensive way because

I won't take it personally,

You shouldn't

that's all right.

because generally 65 or older is considered a senior citizen. Now I work in a cardiothoracic ICU and I still believe that 78 is very young. Okay, so I want you to know that you are by no means are you an old person that you still have a long way to go. Okay, we have like 95 year olds getting cardiac surgery. So you have a long life to live still out. All right, so here are a couple of questions for you. Do you take advantage of the discounts at theme parks or movie theaters?

Like your attitude.

No, I'm afraid not.

You don't do that? You don't

walk in there and say I'd like my $5 discount? Okay, fine, fair enough.

Haven't been to a theater since the pandemic.

Okay, fine, fine,

fair enough. Do you remember the last time you were carded when ordering an alcoholic beverage?

About 60 years ago, would imagine.

60 years ago.

Bless your heart. That's great. All right, I have a couple more. Which part of your body feels like it's 78 years old?

Might be indelicate, but I'd probably have to say my bowels at this point.

Is it you need the prune juice these days? it the, you know?

Well, I

had a surgery almost nine and a half years ago that took out lot of organs and affected my stomach. so I've been struggling with that ever since.

Okay. Understood.

God. know, Betty White said getting old is in for sissies. Okay. So, and I'm sure that's very true. All Here's the last question. What's gotten better since becoming a senior citizen?

No doubt about that.

I think I appreciate life even more. I live each day as if it might be the last. You I never thought of that in those terms when I was younger, but now it's, and I appreciate my family probably even more and my friends. And actually being out of office, I used to worry that I wasn't being a good friend because I was too busy to really...

sustain my friendships, et cetera. So I've made an effort to reconnect with people, old college friends, old high school friends, people I've known along the way, and that's been very meaningful to me.

I hope you get to rekindle those flames and enjoy that time with them. You deserve it, Allen. You really do.

Thank you.

Well, Allen, democracy has always been a very fragile concept, but it certainly seems to be on the razor's edge at this point in time. What would you say to someone who is disaffected with democracy?

Well, I guess I would say that whatever issue they're concerned about or whatever bothers them can only be solved the way they want in a democracy when people actually have the

I, again, empathize with the frustration people have when they tend to be anti-government. But if you're anti-government, that means you're anti-democracy. You've got to be part of it.

Right, yeah.

And it's not just a vote, but to be an informed voter is very important.

Right.

Right. that, as you said earlier, you know, this dumbing down of education for the last 30 years and people to understand even what the three branches of government are and why things take so long to be passed and so on and so forth, it kind of fuels the fire of disaffection. But we have to meet people where they are. That's a big reason why I started this podcast was so I could reach people on their cell phones and in their cars driving to work.

so that hopefully they can understand that both sides are not the same, that democratic ideals and democratic values are important, and that we need to show up for Democrats at all levels of government in Pennsylvania.

And I think it's important for elected officials in particular just to listen. And that can be tough to do because there's so much going on.

I don't care how honest you are when you get elected. If you're in your office,

And you get two phone calls at the same time. And one of some constituent just wants to complain about something. And the other is a big contributor. Which number are you going to take? Which call are you going to take? It's not right. And there are reforms that we could

Yeah, yeah, no.

use that could not solve all these problems, but make it a little more equitable. But there hasn't been a real movement at the federal level or the Pennsylvania state level for a long time because the votes just aren't there.

Right.

Well, if we flip the state senate and we get a democratic majority, those things might actually start to move and so.

I think that's true.

2026, I think could be a really good year where lightning can strike almost anywhere, even for in districts. So we saw one here in that special election of the state Senate in Scranton. Never in my lifetime have I seen a Democrat win that state Senate seat. It's happened now.

That's right.

That's great.

Yeah, certainly.

Allen, you seem to have been ahead of the curve in many ways. You wrote a bill to legalize marijuana in the 1970s. You were for universal health care coverage in the 1980s. You were against the death penalty in the 1990s, and you supported gay marriage before Obama even had a chance to weigh in on the issue. How did most people react to your ideas?

Um, not well. mean, I, my local newspaper was, it did seem like 115 editorials against me during my career, which is no fun. You know, you'd like to be supported by your hometown paper, which I never was.

Yeah.

I always felt that once I was out of office, I want to be able to look myself in the mirror and I wanted to be true to the things I believed in. And I felt a leader should go out and explain to people.

even if they disagreed with them why I was voting that way. And so I spent a lot of time, I spent a lot of time listening and explaining my side of the story. I didn't win that many people over, but enough to keep me in office.

Right. Well, those are democratic values.

they're part of the democratic platform. So, yeah, I mean, they might not have been in it in black and white back when you were serving, but they certainly have crept in there and have been solidified in today's Democratic Party. But you were just leading the way, Allen, in so many ways.

I believe, yes.

Well, I thought, again, I wasn't sure how much time I would have in office. So I wanted to try to create an awareness and take the lead on issues that nobody else wanted to touch. Cause I figured somebody could pick it up after me and that usually did happen.

Great. You are planting seeds for the future and that matters. It really does.

That was maybe the most important thing I could do.

All right, let's play another game. It's called Ahead of the Curve. Okay, so I have some progressive topics and I think you're gonna be on the same page with me, okay? So how about giving women six months of paid time off after pregnancy in Pennsylvania? How do you feel about that?

I agree with it. a of fact, think most modern countries in Europe, etc. already do that.

They do. The UK offers nine months. Sweden offers over a year and Norway also almost a year. So it's crazy. I mean, we are behind in that department. So yeah, I would like to see that happen.

Yeah.

it.

Yeah,

I, it's always, I thought it was always ironic whenever some politicians like to wrap themselves in the family and children, but they won't do what's necessary to make life easier for those families.

Right, the supposed Republican Party, which is the party of life, right? Protecting life doesn't want to give a newborn child six months with their mother. It doesn't really make much sense, but it is a democratic value. Here's another one. How about decriminalizing consensual sex work?

Absolutely.

I have no problem with that.

Yeah, yeah, because, you know, New Zealand and Belgium have already done it. Germany has legalized it. You know, I feel like something that's not talked about enough is that people go into sex work because they need to survive.

You know, people become homeless. They get thrown out by their family members. They lose their jobs.

and they have no other choice and they live in a system that is expensive to live in and this is an easy way for them to make money and people exactly and they should not be penalized for trying to survive

especially if somebody's homeless on the street.

I mean, look, if you don't want people to go into sex work, then you have to give them opportunities. You have to give them more jobs that are available to them. And you have to give them an environment where it is affordable to live. You have to give them,

controlled rent. You have to give them groceries that are affordable. You have to, make it ⁓ sustainable to even have children in terms of the costs of that. So, yeah, I don't think it should be a crime to survive. And if sex work is something people need to do.

then we need to do better as a society.

made that argument over 40

years ago on a public radio show.

Yeah, there

you go. Okay, we're on the same page. Okay, here's the last one. Mental health services in America, well, let's just say Pennsylvania, should be fully covered. Every Pennsylvania should have covered access to a mental health provider whenever they need.

without a doubt.

I like getting credit for what I accomplished, but that was one of my failures was not being able to get full mental health coverage for mandated in

That's what I think about sometimes whenever I can't sleep, what I couldn't accomplish rather than what I did, which eats away at me. That's one of the reasons why I try to get newer people fired up on some of these issues.

Yeah.

to carry the torch. That makes a lot of sense. Well, you accomplished so much, Allen. You really did. But it makes sense. You want people to keep going.

Well, Allen, you like to get a laugh out of people from what I understand. And as a doctor, can say laughter is the greatest, it's the best medicine. Did humor get you through a lot of tough times while serving the legislature?

Absolutely. I always felt you should

office seriously. The people that elected you deserve that. You shouldn't take yourself all this seriously. And I also learned that when I first

I think I was being seen as too self-righteous.

And when I added a little bit of humor to it, I became a little more effective with getting my colleagues to play ball. So that that definitely helps.

Yeah, we all need to laugh a little bit. All right, well, let's play Mad Libs, OK? It's the last game we're going to play. I might actually make this a regular thing. It can have multiple meanings, right? People always think that the libs are mad. All right, so have you ever played Mad Libs before, the old game where? OK. All right, so I want you to give me a verb.

⁓ shit.

beautify.

Beautify. OK, beautify. Here we go. All right. How about an adjective?

green

green. Okay. How about a problem that actually matters?

Climate change. See where it was going there.

Okay, how about a culture war noun?

choice.

Choice, choice, on a cable news show.

Substance

What is it? Substance? Substance is a news show.

Substance.

All right. We have a couple more to go. A plural noun.

Women.

Women, a basic human action.

caring

caring, a minor inconvenience.

Bad food.

Bad food. like that one. All right, a totally made up threat.

I'm stuck on that one.

something that's totally made up that's not actually a problem.

Liberal tears.

Liberal tears. All right. Okay, have three more. A reasonable thing, something reasonable.

Good passion.

Passion another reasonable thing

Courage.

our last one, a trigger word.

Flake.

snowflake. Love it. All right, here we go. We're going to put this all together

first ever Zekely podcast, Mad Lib with Allen Kukovic. Liberals are mad again today because Republicans decided to beautify a green solution to climate change in favor of yelling about choice or substance.

Liberals claim they're upset about women not being able to be caring, but Republicans insist the real issue is bad food and whether liberal tears are coming for your kids. Liberals want passion, courage, and maybe government that doesn't collapse every time someone says snowflake. There you go. You like that? You like that? You help me. You help me build this mad lib, Allen. So thank you very much.

Wow, that was impressive. Yeah, you're good.

Allen, I understand you're working to help get the next generation of leaders ready. Now I know there are leaders everywhere in the Democratic Party, even if the mainstream media doesn't give them the time of day, but I wanted to know how are you approaching this task?

I spent time years ago with finding young candidates who I thought were bright, who were running for the right reasons, but I would get frustrated after they would lose,

they would give up or they'd move or they'd, I'm trying to find folks now that will stay the course, will be realistic enough to realize that they might have to be in it for the long haul, stay involved with their

Mm-hmm.

find out what the real needs are and speak to those needs. And that's not as exciting for a candidate wants to get involved in the campaign and run ads and win.

it's much broader than that. If democracy is gonna work, need people who know the communities, know the people in it, know what the needs are and stay in it. And if they lose one time around, well...

It's hard in this day and age with instant gratification and the internet's misinformation

think that in a campaign you can encompass all the things, the messages you need to get out. There has to be sort of a constant messaging. You have to create a constant narrative. I want candidates

are going to be contemplating what that narrative is, even when there isn't a campaign going on. It's harder to find and get people excited about it.

I'm not going to help them out unless they're going to commit to being in for the long haul.

I love that messaging. I knocked doors with candidates all over Pennsylvania and some of them didn't win the first time. And they're running again because they care about their communities, because they know that the state reps representing their districts are not doing a good job. And they need people to step up and go to Harrisburg and serve the people, not just in their districts, but they know that their vote will affect all Pennsylvanians.

Absolutely.

I always thought Pennsylvania is one of the weaknesses, where it is so parochial. We have more municipal governments, I think any other state. And legislators obviously have to listen to their constituents and do what their district needs. But you still have to accept the obligation that you represent all of Pennsylvania and you cast your vote.

Yeah, we do.

Right.

In a state like, you know, there's some states, Connecticut

Colorado, where

There's more homogeneous communities. Pennsylvania's like has 10 different media markets, five major ones, all kinds of rural, urban. I mean, it's very diverse. It could be five different states. So to get agreement like that is really tough.

Yeah.

Yeah, it's very representative of our nation, how diverse it is, all packed into one state. Well, I hope you keep working on these future leaders because we need sages like yourself to let people know that the fight never ends and that you can, if you work incrementally every year, you can make good things happen in the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania.

Yes, it is.

Well, well said and I enjoyed talking to you and I appreciate the work you've been doing. Keep up with a great podcast.

Thank you.

Wow you're still listening, thank you so much. I want to make sure as many people in Pennsylvania as possible get to experience The Zekely Podcast. So to help spread the word, please take a moment to rate my podcast. Five stars would be great and leave a comment as well. Enjoy the rest of the show.

Allen, what gives you hope?

I've run into people, like I can't say every day, that's a little too overly dramatic, but pretty regularly

genuinely care about others, who want to see real change, who stay engaged in this experiment that we call democracy. When I saw the millions of people showing up at no-kings events, that's one example, but in a smaller scale, just...

running into people who I might not even know who want to talk about issues that matter. There's still enough people out there that if we get everybody involved and adequately informed that this great experiment will continue to go on.

Well, you give me hope, Allen. I I love reading about history. Nonfiction has really got me in a chokehold these days. And when I read about people who have done things, big things to influence the lives of millions of people, how can you not be

there are people alive today who are going to do the same thing? Maybe they haven't done it yet, but we put them in the right room with the right people at the right time. As you said, it's all about timing. We can make big things happen.

And my vote can contribute to that. And I'm hoping that if you put millions of votes together, we can get there, you know, one election at a time.

Absolutely.

Couldn't agree more.

Allen, my last question for you is, what plans do you have to get yourself through these next few years? Because 2025 was a doozy. mean, it was a hard year. So I want to know, what are you doing to protect your mental health, man?

marijuana card now, so that helps a little bit. But no, I enjoy meeting potential candidates and people who want to get involved in causes or different organizations, which I think are doing a lot of good for our well-being.

Hahaha

spend most of my time working with the causes with which I still believe so strongly, and that makes it worthwhile.

God, Allen Kukovich on The Zekely Podcast. I mean, your legacy in the Commonwealth in this country has been cast. And I feel like it's my responsibility now to keep fighting in every election to protect the gains that you made for this country. I certainly don't want to see Chip go away in the Commonwealth or across the country. And that's only going to happen if people show up, if they get engaged, if they vote in every election, they get more Democrats

up and down the ballot.

Because we have to make sure that the progress that you helped make, you, Allen, helped make does not go away. We cannot let it dissolve into oblivion. And that's our job now. So I'm just so grateful that you put in the work that you still to this day put in the work to represent your democratic values. But I just want you to know, if you're listening, if you're watching, it's our job now. It's our job now to pick up the torch and keep going.

Well, I want you to know that this experience with you has given me hope too, that you're out there speaking about these things and that's part of what keeps me going. Thanks for what you're doing.

Absolutely.

Well, thank you so much for joining me here on the Zekely Podcast. Stay hopeful and get involved and until next time, let's keep building a stronger Pennsylvania together.