Shownotes
Katrina Johnson candidly shares her journey into private practice and how she overcame her fears to set up and promote her practice. She and Josephine talk about how important it is to embrace vulnerability and take those first steps, even when moving into private practice feels uncertain and a bit scary. As Katrina shares how she built her client base through social media and word-of-mouth, we get a real look at what works when it comes to attracting clients in a way that feels natural. This episode is a reminder that perseverance and self-belief can make all the difference, even when doubts creep in - encouraging other therapists to take the leap into private practice with confidence.
Takeaways:
- Fear of not being good enough held Katrina back but she discovered those fears were unfounded
- Katrina has been consistent on social media and successfully attracted clients.
- A significant aspect of her success has been the willingness to share personal experiences, including her journey through pregnancy loss, which resonated with clients and fostered a sense of connection.
- Katrina emphasised the importance of setting boundaries in her practice, particularly as the Mum of young children. This allows her to maintain a balance between work and family life, which is crucial for her well-being.
- Finally, Katrina reflects on how overcoming fear and embracing opportunities, stepping outside her comfort zones, has helped her professional growth.
Keywords:
private practice, starting private practice, social media for therapists, therapist branding, marketing for therapists, self-care for therapists, therapist supervision, pregnancy loss support
Setting up in private practice? Download my free checklist HERE
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Josephine Hughes on Facebook
Josephine Hughes on YouTube
My website: josephinehughes.com
The information contained in Good Enough Counsellors is provided for information purposes only. The contents of this podcast are not intended to amount to advice and you should not rely on any of the contents of this podcast. Professional advice should be obtained before taking or refraining from taking any action as a result of the contents of this podcast.
Josephine Hughes disclaims all liability and responsibility arising from any reliance placed on any of the contents of this podcast.
Transcripts
I've been a therapist for over 20 years, but I was just too scared to go into private practice.
Speaker A:I just thought it's a bit safer to stay in my job.
Speaker A:It was just comfort.
Speaker A:It was just worrying that I wouldn't probably be good enough, if I'm being honest.
Speaker B:And how's it been since you've been in private practice?
Speaker A:Loved it.
Speaker A:Absolutely loved it at the end, you know, it's one of those things that, you know, I've done it and it really wasn't that big a deal to get started.
Speaker B:So.
Speaker A:Hello, everyone.
Speaker B:Today I'm really delighted to welcome Katrina Johnson into the studio.
Speaker B:Welcome, Katrina.
Speaker A:Thank you for having me.
Speaker B:Katrina's been a member of therapy growth group for a while and she's actually left now because she was getting so busy in her private practice, she couldn't come to any of the meetings.
Speaker B:So I said, well, let you go, as long as you're comfortable to the podcast and tell people how you did it.
Speaker B:So, Katrina, tell us a little bit about you and your counselling practice.
Speaker A:So I've been sort of on the go from.
Speaker A:I've been a counsellor for a long time, over 20 years, actually.
Speaker A:So I didn't go into private practice till a little bit later.
Speaker A:I sort of have a job, a counselling job, where I work a couple of days for a domestic abuse service, which I do love working with that.
Speaker A:With that client group.
Speaker A:But I decided during lockdown, of all the times that I would set up private practice, my supervisor said, would you see this client for me?
Speaker A:I'm not able to see them.
Speaker A:I think there was a conflict of interest.
Speaker A:And I said, why not?
Speaker A:That's absolutely fine.
Speaker A:And then it was a bit like, do you know, since I've seen a client, I'll just get a little logo and set up.
Speaker A:It just kind of.
Speaker A:I just did little, little bits at a time.
Speaker A:So I set up and I tend to work with issues around, probably not too dissimilar to what I work on a Monday and a Tuesday in my job.
Speaker A:As much as I say I don't really have a niche, actually, I kind of have a similar client group to what I work with.
Speaker A:It's around abuse, confidence, self esteem, relationships.
Speaker B:I was sort of interested to hear what your counselling career was like before you went into private practice as well, because it can be quite difficult to get work, can't it?
Speaker B:So can you tell us a bit about that?
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:And I worked.
Speaker A:I've worked for about 14 years for a domestic abuse service.
Speaker A:Before that, I Worked in a sexual health clinic.
Speaker A:So it was almost like a holistic model of sexual health and it's a bit similar to the private practice element of it.
Speaker A:I worked with young people around competent self esteem, but I've been a therapist for over 20 years, but I was just too scared to go into private practice.
Speaker A:I just thought it's a bit safer to stay and my job, it was just comfort.
Speaker A:It was just worrying that I wouldn't probably be good enough, if I'm being honest.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:And, and how's it been since you've been in private practice?
Speaker A:Loved it.
Speaker A:Absolutely loved it.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:You know, it's one of those things that you, you know, I've done it and it, it really wasn't that big a deal to get started and I think I, I attended one of your, it was your procrastination workshop, I think, shops.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:And that actually was the very thing that prompted it, Josephine.
Speaker B:Really.
Speaker A:Yeah, it really was.
Speaker A:Because there was something you just said.
Speaker A:It was around Brenny Brown and it was, you introduced me to her as well and it was just like, what actually is the block here?
Speaker A:Just, just get started.
Speaker A:It doesn't need to be perfect, just get going.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:And the rest, as they say, is history really, isn't it?
Speaker B:Because did you get busy straight away or did it take time to build up?
Speaker A:It did take a bit of time.
Speaker A:It's not something that was overnight.
Speaker A:I was still working in a full time counseling job, so.
Speaker B:Oh, wow.
Speaker B:Yeah, I know.
Speaker A:Not everybody does it that way, but again, it was just, I think there was a bit of disbelief that I could get busy, to be honest.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:I wanted the safety net of having my job and building it up.
Speaker A:So no, I didn't, didn't straight away.
Speaker A:But actually once I, I, I clicked the button and shared my Facebook page.
Speaker A: nd of July: Speaker A:I, I did actually get inquiries the very same day.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker A:Wow.
Speaker A:It, it did through Facebook.
Speaker A:It was on the messenger.
Speaker A:So it was a bit like, oh, oh, I don't know what to do.
Speaker A:This is.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:I can't believe this.
Speaker B:I don't expect that, do you?
Speaker A:Why has that happened?
Speaker A:But it took time.
Speaker A:It felt like it was almost like I had two clients, then three and then six months later.
Speaker A:It was just that I was into the way of it, of just building it up.
Speaker A:It just built up very gradually.
Speaker A:But I shared a Facebook post every single day for probably about two years.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:And you've built up quite a following on your Facebook page, haven't you?
Speaker B:In do you find that that's one of the ways that people get in touch is via Facebook some of the time.
Speaker A:I've actually had quite a few in the last couple of weeks.
Speaker A:For whatever reason, and I'm saying whatever reason, I don't think there's any such thing as luck, as my supervisor always challenges me.
Speaker A:Because I've probably been a bit quieter in social media.
Speaker A:I've maybe been reposting posts from before because I've been quite busy.
Speaker A:But actually I've been kind of getting into it again and then sure enough, people have contacted me.
Speaker B:Come through.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker B:Tell us about the sorts of things you put on your Facebook page.
Speaker A:It's kind of what Donnie Fogs.
Speaker B:Go on.
Speaker A:Yeah, I think looking.
Speaker A:I had a little nosey the other.
Speaker A:The other night, just at the kind of reach.
Speaker A:I think in the beginning, I was posting quite a lot of videos.
Speaker A:I started doing sort of like a weekly live during lockdown.
Speaker A:They're the ones that got the biggest, biggest reach.
Speaker A:And it was just the videos around maybe imposter syndrome, confidence.
Speaker A:Just about me, how we was getting on during lockdown.
Speaker A:But generally the posts, I think that people quite like.
Speaker A:I started to realize it's a bit cringy to say, but actually pictures of me behind the scenes, like me sort of cleaning the cabin or me sort of reading a book or.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:It wasn't the ones that I put the sort of heart and soul into.
Speaker A:The information.
Speaker A:All your experience and your knowledge, people.
Speaker A:There was only just maybe a little bit of flakes.
Speaker A:It was this sort of very ad hoc in the moment, I'm going for a walk type of.
Speaker A:A bit similar to what you did, I think, this morning.
Speaker A:You were coming back from yoga, weren't you?
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Did a little video.
Speaker B:Because I just thought, oh, now's the time.
Speaker B:I could.
Speaker B:It's almost like when you're going for a walk and you've got an idea, why not just record it as a.
Speaker B:As a video?
Speaker B:Sure, yeah.
Speaker B:So people were really.
Speaker B:It's that sort of connection, isn't it?
Speaker B:People were really connecting with Katrina, the person.
Speaker B:I think I was just wanting to know a little bit more about you.
Speaker B:You sort of like become a sort of influencer in your own little.
Speaker B:Your own little sort of counseling niche.
Speaker B:People like that and connected with you.
Speaker A:I never expected that at all.
Speaker A:I think in the beginning, you know, it's a bit.
Speaker A:I'm sort of rereading Elizabeth Gilbert's big magic book, which I just.
Speaker A:Just love.
Speaker A:And she talks about, you know, so it's not.
Speaker A:Not necessarily the most important thing to try and help lots of people.
Speaker A:I think initially I did it just to find my voice, to find out.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:What's the sort of things that I want to work with because I hadn't quite decided about a niche or what I wanted to do, like, just did I have anything to say?
Speaker B:So you sort of like, you were able to approach it with quite an experimental mind frame or, you know, it's a mindset.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Was that you sort of like went into it with that almost growth mindset.
Speaker B:I'm just going to try this out, see what happens.
Speaker B:Doesn't have to be tough.
Speaker A:No, I mean, I was nervous, but.
Speaker B:Yeah, go on, tell us about that.
Speaker A:Nervous.
Speaker A:I remember sort of messaging my friends, sort of saying, oh, I hope this is the right thing, because it felt a bit bold because I didn't know much about social media and counseling, whether that mixed.
Speaker A:But I did a bit of training and got some different help.
Speaker A:And you know, I think through your, your group as well, you know, it was.
Speaker A:It was helpful just to get some tips about what.
Speaker A:What might work.
Speaker A:But I post about most things, not everything, you know, that there's some things I think people don't need to know about me, but if I get a new notepad or whatever.
Speaker A:Blogs.
Speaker A:I did some blogs as well.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Do you ever.
Speaker B:Do you ever post about your children or is that a boundary that you keep that you don't post about your family or some.
Speaker A:Sometimes I do.
Speaker A:I've tended to sort of.
Speaker A:I suppose there's that think about the kind of know, like.
Speaker A:And trust, you know, that if I'm working maybe.
Speaker A:I do work with quite a lot of mums, so I think sometimes them having an understanding that I'm a mum, I don't maybe mention my children's name, but I'll just kind of give off the vibe that I am a mum and I get it.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:So it helps to make it relatable.
Speaker B:But you're still.
Speaker B:You've got sort of like a boundary as to what you say.
Speaker B:Like you say people don't know the names of your children.
Speaker B:They probably don't really know their ages either, do they?
Speaker A:No, I don't put pictures on and things like that.
Speaker A:Yeah, I'll reference them.
Speaker B:But you're just.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Just so people know that you're a mum.
Speaker B:And does that feel comfortable for you, talking about that, about being a mum?
Speaker A:It's become a bit more comfortable, I think when I first started, you know, you can see you Know, looking at the history of all my different posts, you can see me getting a bit braver as the years go on.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Maybe just shared a lot of other people's work.
Speaker A:Whereas on this, in the second year, I started to kind of.
Speaker A:Well, I went into the world of Canva and started doing my own posts and putting pictures of me and pictures of what I was.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Just to let people kind of know what I was up to.
Speaker B:There's quite a sort of ongoing story, isn't there, about your plants?
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah, it's about your plants.
Speaker A:I'm not great with plants, Josephine.
Speaker A:And it's just a bit of fun.
Speaker A:I don't take it too seriously.
Speaker A:I mean, some posts can be serious, depending on if I'm doing, like, awareness, reason about maybe domestic abuse or something.
Speaker A:But in general, you know, I think I just put rip plant or something like that, like, we've had a lovely time, but unfortunately it's time to say goodbye.
Speaker A:It was just something of that nature.
Speaker A:And then what happened was I'd said, has anyone got any tips?
Speaker A:And all these sort of very lovely people came on to let me know how to revive it.
Speaker A:So it was really lovely.
Speaker A:It didn't work.
Speaker B:It was too late by then.
Speaker A:Was it too late?
Speaker A:I drowned it.
Speaker B:It's quite funny, isn't it?
Speaker B:I think the sort of relationship with counsellors and their plants is.
Speaker B:It's.
Speaker B:Josh Fletcher said the same, you know, that he seems to have a series of dead plants.
Speaker B:It's sort of like, yes, I'm a really nurturing therapist, but I don't know how to look after and nurture my plants.
Speaker B:But did you say in the end you ended up with not real plants, because.
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah, that's the way to go.
Speaker A:I don't sort of kill them with kindness, you know, I think it was just giving it too much love.
Speaker A:I just watered it too much to try and look after it.
Speaker B:And it makes you sort of real and normal as well, doesn't it?
Speaker B:It takes away that sort of barrier of, oh, his counsellor.
Speaker B:And it sort of helps to provide, I suppose.
Speaker B:It makes you more approachable as much as anything.
Speaker A:I think so.
Speaker A:And I think that's the feedback I tend to get from people that, oh, I seen you.
Speaker A:You put a post of you playing or not playing your.
Speaker A:Your cornet, that I play an instrument.
Speaker A:So I let people know that I'm reading or I'm playing an instrument or I'm doing my workout or I've been to yoga or something like that.
Speaker A:So a lot of people have said that really appealed to me.
Speaker A:You let me know that, you know, I'm a person that probably could be trusted, that you might get what I'm saying.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Tell us what your Facebook page is, just so people can find it.
Speaker A:So it's KJCounselling.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:So, yeah, people want to take a look.
Speaker B:I was wondering as well, because you said, you know, you started getting people inquiring straight away, are there many counselors near you or is it sort of quite a counsellor, poor space sort of thing?
Speaker A:There are a few counsellors around and I actually tend to network.
Speaker A:One of your tips that you had said, I think in one of your.
Speaker A:Your sort of.
Speaker A:I think one of your talks that you've done.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:And a release that you've done, I think, was to try and just see who's in your area.
Speaker A:I.
Speaker A:I contacted a few just to see.
Speaker A:Just to introduce myself.
Speaker A:And there's a few sort of just maybe seven or eight miles away that I sort of meet up with, you know, one that's in this group.
Speaker A:Couple that's in this group, actually, that came out of me being in the therapy growth group that I've friends, Rachel Foster, counselling.
Speaker A:So I wouldn't say it's saturated with counsellors.
Speaker A:Ireland's quite a small town, so maybe I'm quite fortunate in that sense.
Speaker B:Well, it's good you set up when you did because obviously there was a need for councillors, wasn't there when you set up?
Speaker A:I think so.
Speaker B:So going back to what would you know when you were saying about how you felt quite fearful and you were procrastinating.
Speaker B:Tell us a bit more about that.
Speaker A:I think it was just, what have I got to say?
Speaker A:Am I going to make a mistake?
Speaker A:What do I know?
Speaker A:Do I know enough?
Speaker A:Which is completely ridiculous because by that stage I had been a therapist for about 17 years, so I knew things, I did know things.
Speaker A:And I realized when I was starting to do the poster, I knew, actually I knew quite a lot that I had a lot to say, that I really liked writing.
Speaker B:So it's sort of like the Facebook sort of gave you another.
Speaker B:Almost like a creative way to use your writing and that sort of thing.
Speaker A:Yeah, I think it was worried about, probably was worrying what people were thinking.
Speaker A:Are people not going to like it?
Speaker A:But of course not everyone's going to like it.
Speaker A:I'm not for everybody.
Speaker A:Not going to be the therapist for everyone.
Speaker A:And that.
Speaker A:That is okay.
Speaker B:And have you had any difficult replies to any of your posts?
Speaker A:Or there's been a couple.
Speaker A:I thought one.
Speaker A:You know, there's been things that have kind of stood out, and it's maybe just a misunderstanding of what I was kind of meaning.
Speaker A:I think there was something around me talking about comfort zones and people saying, well, what's wrong with that then?
Speaker A:What's wrong with being.
Speaker A:Being in your comfort zone?
Speaker A:Yeah, that seems like quite nice and.
Speaker A:Okay, so maybe it was just people's interpretation, but in general, no, I think it's been received quite well.
Speaker A:It was maybe one of the things I was worried about that.
Speaker A:How that.
Speaker A:Will I offend somebody?
Speaker A:Will I get it wrong?
Speaker B:Yeah, I think that's a big worry for people, actually.
Speaker B:And someone actually put on the Facebook group a day or so ago.
Speaker B:You know, I'm really worried about going into, like, an advertising and say, a local Facebook group, because people can get very irate about counsellors charging and all that sort of stuff.
Speaker B:So I think we do worry about it.
Speaker B:But you haven't really had people criticizing you for charging money or.
Speaker A:No, not at all.
Speaker A:Because we deserve that.
Speaker A:You know, we really do.
Speaker A:We do really need to have that.
Speaker A:Yeah, probably, if anything, people saying, I don't think you're charging enough.
Speaker A:That.
Speaker A:That's probably the feedback that.
Speaker A:That I've had.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:I feel fortunate that I've not had to.
Speaker A:To deal with anything like.
Speaker A:Like that.
Speaker A:I think that, you know, there's.
Speaker A:Sometimes I think, you know, there was.
Speaker A:I think there was once maybe there where there was maybe a tension, you know, and a difficult way.
Speaker A:Just.
Speaker A:It was maybe just people being a bit.
Speaker A:My person being a bit explicit.
Speaker A:But.
Speaker A:But that.
Speaker A:That was all that was okay.
Speaker A:And I think I remember being in the therapy growth group and that really did help just to get that bit of support with it.
Speaker A:That.
Speaker A:It was just.
Speaker A:Actually, it's because your name's out there.
Speaker A:It's in this sort of.
Speaker A:It's out there.
Speaker A:People are.
Speaker A:You're getting attention.
Speaker A:Yeah, it was okay.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:You sorted it out, didn't you?
Speaker B:We just.
Speaker B:I think delete and block is always.
Speaker A:Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:It's okay.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker B:If someone's gonna behave like that, there's no need to.
Speaker B:To sort of give them any attention, really, is there?
Speaker B:So I was just sort of wondering, so do you get your clients mainly through Facebook or is it through other ways as well?
Speaker A:No, it's probably a mixture of, like, directories, but now it's probably a lot of word of mouth.
Speaker A:So, you know, people have maybe heard about me through social media.
Speaker A:I'VE got a website that I've, I've done a couple of websites.
Speaker A:My second one, I've got somebody to do for me.
Speaker A:So people come through Google as well.
Speaker A:Just go my business.
Speaker A:So, so it's, it's various different ways, recommendations from maybe my supervisor from other, other therapists.
Speaker A:Because a big part of this social media which has been really helpful is actually connecting with other therapists.
Speaker A:Therapist will message me just to say, I really love your posts.
Speaker A:Like you're really brave.
Speaker A:I wish I could do that.
Speaker A:And, and of course they can do it.
Speaker A:I'm not doing anything that's really fancy or I'm not paying thousands in social media.
Speaker A:I'm doing it myself.
Speaker A:It's just been brave enough, I think, to, to do it, take that step and anyone can do it if they really wanted to.
Speaker B:Yeah, just being willing.
Speaker B:It's almost sort of like, come, come and have a look at Katrina's page because you can get an idea of what works, I think, because it, it obviously is working for, for you and it's helping to spread the word.
Speaker B:And also I think, you know, you are quite clear in your ethics as well around it, what you do and don't share and how you know how to protect yourself, protect your kids.
Speaker B:Keep it so that it's separate.
Speaker B:Because like you say, it's sort of embarrassing in a way, isn't it, when we realize that actually people want to see pictures of us.
Speaker A:Yes.
Speaker B:And then you sort of like, you think, oh, I don't know about you, but I tend to think, oh, am I being a bit narcissistic autistic here?
Speaker B:Posting photos of myself online and getting over how you look sometimes as well and just thinking, it doesn't matter what I look like, just post it anyway.
Speaker B:Did you have any of those sorts of thoughts going on?
Speaker A:All the time.
Speaker A:Because I'd take pictures of me outside and my hair was sort of all sticking up and every, you know, so I looked, you know, just.
Speaker A:I look like somebody having a walk.
Speaker A:So I guess it was just quite real.
Speaker A:Tend to take pictures of me when I've just had my haircut.
Speaker A:I actually got my hair cut yesterday, so I haven't done it yet.
Speaker A:So watch out for the post.
Speaker A:Just get my hair cut done.
Speaker A:But I think people like it.
Speaker A:I think people do.
Speaker A:The amount of emails I get that starts off with, I've actually been following your page for about 18 months, but I've just, I've never had the courage just to put a comment on.
Speaker A:But I really love what you're doing.
Speaker A:Would you be able to fit me in supervisees as well?
Speaker A:Yeah, I've got supervisees from your lovely page, which was very helpful, thank you very much.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Because I think that's really interesting though, isn't it, that there was that.
Speaker B:You know, you get people who've.
Speaker B:Who've maybe been following you for a while.
Speaker B:Because I think, you know, often we.
Speaker B:We sort of think, oh, we need to get clients, we need to get clients.
Speaker B:When you were quite lucky that you got some straight away.
Speaker B:But quite often it does take people that long to come forward, doesn't it?
Speaker B:That and the fact that they haven't.
Speaker B:They've never commented.
Speaker B:They almost sort of come out of the woodwork and you think, well, I've got.
Speaker B:I've never met.
Speaker B:You know, I've got no awareness of you at all because they've been following you.
Speaker B:But you don't know them because they've never said anything.
Speaker B:But they are actually following you quite loyally and then they contact you when the time is right.
Speaker B:Do you do any posts where you're sort of encouraging people to come forward, to get booked in or anything like that?
Speaker A:I tend to do that when I'm quiet, but I haven't been quiet for about two years.
Speaker A:I think the last time that I thought, oh, I really need to do some posts about, like, let's get yourself booked in.
Speaker A:I think that was about two years ago.
Speaker A:But actually I tend to sort of, you know, if I get my new.
Speaker A:When I get my new diary for the year, I'll sort of say, oh, I've got my new diary, I'm filling up my appointments and if I do have any space, I might just say, I've got a space, a space available.
Speaker A:Please get in touch with an introductory call and I might talk to them about an introductory call as what that's about.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker B:So it basically is just working for you, isn't it?
Speaker B:You've got a nice flow of clients coming in and do you find that.
Speaker B:Are you sort of like running a waiting list or have you got.
Speaker A:Yes.
Speaker B:How does it work?
Speaker A:It's just a short waiting list because I try my best to signpost because I'm a supervisor now, which it's quite lovely actually, to be able to signpost in a way because, you know, if somebody's not got enough clients.
Speaker A:So I know that I've got people that.
Speaker A:I know how they work and I can sing those.
Speaker A:But I do have a wee waiting list because some people, they don't Want to see anyone else because they've decided in their mind, no, I want to see you because I think you can help me and I like how you look and how you sound.
Speaker A:And I'll just wait for you.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker B:It's a lovely place to be where, you know, that's what people, you know, that people are sort of loyal to you and that they will actually wait.
Speaker B:And then they sort of formed.
Speaker B:They've sort of almost formed a connection with you before they even arrive.
Speaker B:And do you find with people like that, how does, how does the therapy go, do you think?
Speaker B:Because they've already got that relationship of trust with you, do you find it, it enhances the therapy?
Speaker B:Does it help it get off quicker, do you think?
Speaker A:I think so.
Speaker A:I think they feel like at that point they've kind.
Speaker A:They kind of know me.
Speaker A:They, you know, I don't know them.
Speaker A:And again, they don't know, you know, lots and lots about me, but they just feel familiar.
Speaker A:It feels familiar for them.
Speaker A:And sometimes if they're very nervous, it might give a bit of an anchor point for the reason that they got in touch.
Speaker A:So.
Speaker A:And sometimes, yeah, like you say, there is a bit of cringe element.
Speaker A:If sometimes they say, oh, I've come to you because I seen you, you were doing your new workout in January.
Speaker A:So I'm in my counseling room, like, oh, but a bit cringe, but.
Speaker A:But it's the reason why they've come.
Speaker B:So.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah, it's interesting, isn't it?
Speaker B:And it's funny, I think as well.
Speaker B:Do you find that people recognize you as well?
Speaker B:Do you go out sometimes and find that people recognize you or.
Speaker A:I don't.
Speaker B:Oh, you so and so.
Speaker A:I don't think I've.
Speaker A:I've noticed that I've not.
Speaker A:I've bumped into, to clients, obviously, but no, I think there was.
Speaker A:There was one time because I've been like on the radio, just I've been asked to kind of do that and, you know, I sort of was in a network meeting and they were saying, oh, you were on Donna's radio station, weren't you?
Speaker A:I think that was the only kind of thing, but not so much about my name and things like that.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker B:So tell us a bit about that.
Speaker B:How did you get on the radio?
Speaker B:Because that's really interesting.
Speaker A:Yeah, but that was a bit scary.
Speaker A:Biscuits, I would say very a bit scary.
Speaker A:But it was good fun.
Speaker A:It was really enjoyable.
Speaker A:I was part.
Speaker A:Part of a business group in the area.
Speaker A:So not just therapists, it was photographers and you know, there was lots of different people in there, just all the different local businesses.
Speaker A:But one of the.
Speaker A:The women on it was a coach and she got into doing a radio station.
Speaker A:So she had just contacted me, she said, oh, I've seen them on Facebook that you had shared.
Speaker A:I think I was talking about the window of tolerance or something like that.
Speaker A:And she just said, I think you'd be a really good guest on the radio.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Do you want to come and have a.
Speaker A:Have a chat?
Speaker A:Is there anything you'd like to say?
Speaker A:So I just said yes immediately.
Speaker A:Yeah, yes, I'll do that.
Speaker B:Because this is your philosophy, isn't it?
Speaker B:I think so, yeah.
Speaker B:Tell me really what you said to me when you first came on.
Speaker B:I said, oh, thanks for being here.
Speaker B:And you said what?
Speaker B:I said, are you feeling nervous?
Speaker A:And you said, a little nervous, but I think you just need to get on and do it.
Speaker A:Feel the fear.
Speaker A:Confidence comes after.
Speaker A:I just think we just need to do it.
Speaker A:It's just about being brave.
Speaker A:But I mean, that didn't come over overnight.
Speaker A:Definitely not.
Speaker A:I was quite nervous about the radio and even when you'd asked me to do this, I was.
Speaker A:I think I said yes quite quickly.
Speaker A:But again, it was just that thing of I don't want to talk myself out of it and just get on and do it because you just don't know what kind of comes from these things and it's helpful and just being creative.
Speaker B:So you sort of almost say yes quickly before you have time to dissuade yourself from, oh, I really difficult to do it.
Speaker B:So I'll say no.
Speaker B:So you say yes and agree to it and then you're almost countable.
Speaker B:So it makes you do it.
Speaker B:Yeah, I think so.
Speaker A:You need to be careful a bit with that because I can't take.
Speaker A:I can't do everything all the time.
Speaker A:But I think it's just, you know, having a bit of.
Speaker A:A bit of fun and being on the radio.
Speaker A:It was really good fun.
Speaker A:Once I got into the show, was about two hours long.
Speaker B:Wow.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:So it really was quite a long.
Speaker A:Chat about self care.
Speaker A:September, it was just talking about self care and we had a big conversation about men and therapy and just some of the issues that may impact men.
Speaker A:And actually the very next day I had four inquiries from men.
Speaker B:Wow.
Speaker A:So.
Speaker A:So whether that's a coincidence or not.
Speaker B:Doesn'T sound like it, does it?
Speaker B:It sounds like, you know, people heard it and that encouraged them to come forward, which is fantastic.
Speaker B:I think the other thing just want to pick up on that you said was about you never know what's going to come out of it.
Speaker B:And it's that.
Speaker B:You know how you said earlier you talked to your supervisor and she said there's no such thing as luck.
Speaker B:And I think this is part of it, is that lucky people are the people who do tend to sort of look for opportunities and just keep an eye out for them and just grab them when they come up.
Speaker B:Because like you say, you never really know what's going to come out of them.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Brimming with ideas.
Speaker A:But it's just having the.
Speaker B:The time that's I think probably the hardest thing for you, isn't it?
Speaker B:Is because you're.
Speaker B:Are you still working as in your paid job?
Speaker A:I am, but I think that's going to change.
Speaker A:Yeah, I think it has to.
Speaker A:My tax return tells me that I need to stop that job as a year.
Speaker B:So you would open up more time for.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:More clients.
Speaker A:I think so.
Speaker B:And you'd get full again really quickly, I think, wouldn't you?
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Especially if you've got a waiting list.
Speaker A:That's right.
Speaker A:And I get inquiries, I would say most days.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:So.
Speaker A:So it's.
Speaker A:I think it's a good place to.
Speaker A:To kind of be in and it would give me more time to do some of the.
Speaker A:The other things because I think I've spoken to you before about, you know, maybe sort of starting that pregnancy loss service that I would really love to do because I did start to do vlogs that.
Speaker A:And they were actually something that people really liked.
Speaker A:I got a lot of people contacting me and that was about my own sort of pregnancy loss journey.
Speaker A:So that was probably was the most personal thing that I shared about me on the business page.
Speaker A:And not for everybody.
Speaker A:And I don't think it has to be for everybody, but it felt okay for me to do and it did seem to impact and help people because.
Speaker B:I remember when you sort of were first thinking about writing the blog, it was sort of like, can I do this?
Speaker B:Can I put something so personal online?
Speaker B:I think as much as anything just is this.
Speaker B:It's that sort of idea that we shouldn't share anything of ourselves, isn't it?
Speaker B:I think that was what was getting in the way, in a sense.
Speaker B:Is that sense of always ethical?
Speaker B:You know, do I need to keep this.
Speaker B:This boundary?
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:And yet what you found is you've had quite a positive response from putting it on.
Speaker A:Yes.
Speaker A:I think some therapists questioned a little bit like if that's what you feel you need to do.
Speaker A:There was, there was some kind of people that maybe there was a bit of a question mark for them about it, but it felt okay for me.
Speaker A:And I think the clients that did come from that, who liked the blogs that they seem to really like, that they knew that I really got it.
Speaker B:I mean obviously you don't need me to tell you, but it's just a life changing thing that can happen, can't it?
Speaker A:Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker B:And I think it's so often people just don't get it, do they?
Speaker B:They don't get what that loss is about.
Speaker B:And so to be able to connect with someone who does get it I think is really important to clients, you know, and being willing to do that because I think, because I think the other thing is, is that, I mean obviously you're always sort of living with it, aren't you?
Speaker B:But you've got to that point where you could share about it almost quite objectively.
Speaker B:I think it wasn't, you weren't sort of like just a stream of sort of agony that was, it wasn't like.
Speaker A:My sort of journal, my journal.
Speaker A:It was very different to that.
Speaker A:There was always a kind of element of this is how it, it was for me.
Speaker A:But these are the sort of maybe some twos or some weights that, some tips, some ways that were, were useful and did and that seemed to land okay with, with people that they really got it.
Speaker B:Tell us what you, what's your sort of dream for the pregnancy loss service?
Speaker A:I would love to, to set up a service not just for, for women but for sort of a holistic kind of model of it, you know, just to, to work with maybe even their partners, their, their children, their young people, do some group work.
Speaker A:You know, I've probably bursting with ideas and probably it's just starting from that initial bit of, of getting set up with it.
Speaker A:I do actually have a logo for it because I've thought about, I had this idea for and it's a lovely local.
Speaker A:It's just really perfect to reflect, you know, what I would want to do.
Speaker A:So I've had it sitting and I've got it, I've got a picture of it just sitting, you know, just so I can see it.
Speaker A:So, just so I don't lose sight of it.
Speaker A:Because I will do it.
Speaker B:It's a vision.
Speaker B:You've got vision there.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:So price is up.
Speaker B:Give up the job.
Speaker A:That's another story.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:And, and, and the same amount of money but don't see as many clients and free up some time and then do what you're best at, which is feeling the fear and doing it anyway.
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah, it's not easy.
Speaker B:Yeah, it'd be lovely, lovely to see that develop over the next few years.
Speaker B:So have you got any, you know, we have quite a few people who listen in, who are mums as well, who've got sort of young children.
Speaker B:Have you got any tips or anything that you could give about, you know, how do you make private practice work alongside the family?
Speaker A:Yeah, it's the time factor.
Speaker A:But one of the things that stood out when I was reading, you know, a lot of, I read a lot of kind of Elizabeth Gilbert is around that actually if you really love something you will, you will find the time somehow, even if it's just a little bit of time just to put it into that.
Speaker A:But I actually do a lot of my hours around school pickup times.
Speaker A:So I've got maybe one day where I get some help and it's just asking for help to.
Speaker A:So that I've got a longer, a longer day.
Speaker A:But it's, it's quite nice.
Speaker A:I've made it work around.
Speaker A:I'll drop off, drop off the kids and then I'll have a go home and have a walk, a cup of tea, have a bit of a breather and then I start my appointments because I've got my, my cabin, a counseling cabin that I've shared so much on social media about.
Speaker A:My love.
Speaker A:My little cabin that's so cozy.
Speaker A:And I was going to say, have.
Speaker B:You had any difficulties with getting clients to sort of in the hours that you would like to work?
Speaker A:No.
Speaker B:They've come when you needed them.
Speaker A:No, I think if people really want to work with you, and I think you've said it before, they will move heaven on earth to try and work with you.
Speaker A:I work one night and sometimes around school holidays I might work a little bit more at night time because I think last summer holiday I took like every Friday just so the ads some more time with my children.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:So it's really just, it's just making it work.
Speaker A:You get to decide your hours and people will accommodate that if they really want to work with you.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:So you don't really do many, many evenings then you just work.
Speaker A:Not now.
Speaker A:When I first started private practice, I think I was doing something like four evenings on top of, you know, my counseling job.
Speaker A:So it was really just full.
Speaker B:You were in a full time job at that point, weren't you?
Speaker A:Yeah, so, so it, it was, it, it.
Speaker A:I realized it was kind of maybe A bit much and I didn't really want to burn myself out and.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Sabotage my, My private practice before it had even really got started, so.
Speaker A:So I just kind of been really careful having to set a limit, so.
Speaker A:Because of course, you know, I'm a mum and they are still priority to be.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:So I cut down the nights when I went part time.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:But I still like to offer at least one night because I think it's quite helpful for people that are working and for moms that are coming straight from their yoga or whatever.
Speaker A:So.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker B:So they've got.
Speaker B:Got that flexibility for them.
Speaker B:But it's really good to hear how you've been able to.
Speaker B:To work the hours that really suits your family because you're easily able to attract people.
Speaker B:That really helps because you, you can say to people, this is when I'm available and you know there's going to be people coming.
Speaker B:It makes it a bit easier to stick to those hours because you've got lots of people making inquiries.
Speaker B:So.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker A:There's all always sort of seems to be.
Speaker A:It seems to just work quite nicely at the moment.
Speaker A:We're summing, stopping and then, then I'm just.
Speaker A:Then maybe there's a inquiry in my inbox and I think, oh, right.
Speaker A:So maybe they could go into that space and it's just about offering them it and if they can, they can.
Speaker A:I think I used to get a bit worked up about, oh, gosh, I'm not going to be able to.
Speaker A:To fit them in, but.
Speaker A:But actually can sign post them.
Speaker A:But what was happening is they would have eventually come back to say, actually my boss said I can, I can take that space.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker B:So in a sense what you're saying is if you hold your boundaries, it's amazing how their clients will.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Come come around them.
Speaker B:And the other thing I was just going to ask you about as well is you've recently started your supervision, haven't you?
Speaker A:Yes.
Speaker B:So that was a big thing as well, wasn't it?
Speaker B:Sort of deciding to become a supervisor.
Speaker B:Tell us a bit about the process of making that decision because like you say, you've been working in therapy for, you know, many years.
Speaker B:So what was stopping you?
Speaker B:Do you think that I didn't know.
Speaker A:Enough that I think I almost had this sort of idea of that I'll be a supervisor once I do this, this and this.
Speaker A:Once I've been in private practice maybe for at least five years, I had this fixed idea in my head, but actually my supervisor really Challenged it and said what actually is that?
Speaker A:About what, what difference would that make?
Speaker A:Why don't you just do it?
Speaker A:So yeah, I think it was just that I maybe had supervisors on a sort of pedestal of the all knowing.
Speaker A:But it's not really like that.
Speaker A:You don't need to know absolutely everything and it's okay that we don't.
Speaker B:So now you've also sort of fitting supervisees into your program as well into your day.
Speaker A:But got a bit of a waiting list there too, it seems.
Speaker A:Oh, but I, I just, I just can't, I can't see everybody and I think it's just trying to set a limit with, with that I've got to take care of me and make sure I'm going to be the best therapist and supervisor and you know that I can be.
Speaker A:Be as present as I can be.
Speaker A:So yeah, I can't take on everybody.
Speaker A:It wouldn't be healthy.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Because it's interesting, isn't it?
Speaker B:Because I think there can be that sort of sense of not wanting to turn people away.
Speaker B:And I know you because you're very sort of caring towards people.
Speaker B:It's probably quite challenging to say sort of.
Speaker A:No, it's really hard.
Speaker A:It is hard.
Speaker A:And especially if someone says I've been following your page or they've given you the story of what's kind of went on and for supervisees as well, they've kind of seen, said, you know, I really have researched you and I've looked and I've narrowed it down and I feel you would be the best fit.
Speaker A:And then I'm sort of saying, actually I've not got the capacity at the moment.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:But I like to sign post which is helpful.
Speaker A:Which is.
Speaker A:Or I'll direct them to.
Speaker A:Or direct them to your, your group.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:We have peer supervision and, and there's quite a few people actually.
Speaker B:I think you're sort of one of the cohort that sort of joined sort of that during that lockdown period.
Speaker B:And then it's been really lovely actually because what I've seen is I've seen you're growing and then you're moving into supervision and it's just like really lovely to see this progression of people who are in the group.
Speaker B:Just seeing them grow into their, deeper into their practice really, which is just lovely.
Speaker B:I've loved seeing that.
Speaker A:Definitely.
Speaker A:I genuinely don't think, I think if it wasn't for that group and that support work, the therapy growth group, I think, you know, I've become a supervisor, I've been part Time got the cabin built, you know, writing blogs, doing live videos.
Speaker A:I never thought I would do that.
Speaker A:That was terrifying.
Speaker A:But it was all okay.
Speaker A:It was just that kind of just.
Speaker A:Yeah, just enjoying it, having a bit of fun.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:And see, I think sort of having that, that sort of growth mindset really makes a difference, doesn't it?
Speaker B:Where it's not sort of like you pass or fail, it's just you're just trying and seeing what happens really.
Speaker B:And can you make it grow?
Speaker A:Exactly.
Speaker A:And, and you'll know yourself with some sort of posts and things that you do, but they do flop a bit.
Speaker A:You know, I've, I've kind of.
Speaker A:And I think for a while I did get hung up on.
Speaker A: think I've got something like: Speaker A:It's not a lot at all.
Speaker A:Although my son, my son did actually say, but Mum, that's like more people that are at my high school.
Speaker A:That's.
Speaker A:That's amazing.
Speaker B:Yeah, it's good putting it into context, isn't it?
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker B:And the thing is, it's actually.
Speaker B:It's not about the numbers, is it?
Speaker B:It's about the fact that it's working.
Speaker B:The fact that it does bring people to you and it's obviously working really well.
Speaker B:So, you know, you don't actually need to worry too much about, oh, how many followers and likes are.
Speaker B:I've got because it's doing its job, which is what the important thing is.
Speaker A:Yeah, I think it takes the pressure off.
Speaker A:Once you stop worrying about that, that actually that doesn't really matter because you know what the algorithms with Facebook are like.
Speaker A:Not everyone is always getting to see it and that's why I given my secrets away.
Speaker A:But often, like reshare things because not every, hopefully not everyone's seen.
Speaker A:Seen it.
Speaker A:So.
Speaker B:Absolutely.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker B:And oh, and also as well, even if they've seen it, they've probably forgotten about it anyway.
Speaker A:Of course.
Speaker B:And.
Speaker B:Or if they remember it, they think, oh, I really like that post.
Speaker B:Who got it a second time around?
Speaker B:You know, I mean, I follow someone and she does brilliant social media and yeah, yeah, she's probably putting pretty similar stuff on.
Speaker B:But I love it because I love what she has to say.
Speaker B:I think she's brilliant and so just whatever she wants to say, I'm there, I'm ready for it.
Speaker B:And if it's repeated, that's great because it just reminds me so there's so many it saves you time, doesn't it?
Speaker A:Yeah, definitely.
Speaker A:I think that's where we can learn from.
Speaker A:From all these other amazing therapists that are out there.
Speaker A:That's how I learned from other therapists.
Speaker A:I can't claim to, you know, to have thought of all this stuff myself.
Speaker A:It's, it's.
Speaker A:It's very much been a work in progress.
Speaker A:Just being curious, just trying things out and looking at having a nosy, what other people are doing, following therapist pages, sharing what I like, being myself.
Speaker B:Yeah, it's good fun.
Speaker B:I think that just sounds brilliant.
Speaker B:And hopefully, you know, what people will hear from it is that, you know, it's okay just to have fun and just try it out and see where it takes you.
Speaker B:And, you know, with you, it actually has.
Speaker B:It's just really worked.
Speaker B:And it's really interesting to hear what you said about actually, you know, people just quite like seeing pictures of me.
Speaker A:I know I'm cringing, but when I think once I realized that, that I thought, well, I need to do it at least kind of once a week that, you know, people will comment on that.
Speaker A:I think I did a reel that was, that went.
Speaker A:That was really helpful.
Speaker A:I did a reel of the cabin of the day in the life of a counsellor.
Speaker A:And people, people seemed.
Speaker A:Because I was on.
Speaker A:I think I was on your real training because I.
Speaker A:I didn't have a clue how to do that.
Speaker B:Yeah, we did that.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Did a real training, didn't we, where everybody had a go at making reels.
Speaker B:And you've used it, haven't you?
Speaker A:Yeah, I did, I did.
Speaker A:And I'm going to do another one coming up.
Speaker A:Just about sort of summing up my January, just to sort of.
Speaker A:And I'm sure I've got like, kind of like an Eye of the Tiger song over it, just like that kind of survival thing.
Speaker A:But actually, I'm probably a bit of a phony because I don't actually mind January.
Speaker B:But it encourages people and just makes fun.
Speaker B:Makes it fun, doesn't it?
Speaker A:So, yeah, definitely.
Speaker A:Definitely.
Speaker B:It's brilliant.
Speaker B:Katrina, thank you so much for coming along and sharing about your journey and how you got there.
Speaker B:And congratulations because it's so lovely to hear that you're so busy and that you've got this sort of continuous sort of funnel of people coming to you and long may it last.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:And so perhaps you'll be back on the podcast in a few years time, if I'm still doing it and we'll be hearing about your.
Speaker B:About your pregnancy loss.
Speaker A:You stop.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:But, yeah, I really look forward to hearing about that.
Speaker B:So the next.
Speaker B:It sounds like the next step is going to be taking that step to leave work.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:And then making a bit more time for yourself.
Speaker A:Yes, definitely.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Really exciting.
Speaker A:Thanks for having me.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Well, isn't it interesting, you know, just the subject, your supervisor just encouraging you to take that little step started with that first client and here you are sort of nearly four and a half years later, just flying, just having a.
Speaker A:Just, just enjoying it.
Speaker A:And yeah, it's hard work, but good, enjoy it.
Speaker B:Just.
Speaker B:Just before I let you go, have you got any sort of words of wisdom or.
Speaker B:If you.
Speaker B:If you had to sort of like give someone some advice about being in private practice, what would your main sort of piece of advice be, do you think?
Speaker A:I think it is not taking it too seriously, you know, showing up as yourself, not trying to be too.
Speaker A:To counsellor, I think, if that's a word, you know.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:You know, just being consistent, you know, it doesn't need to be every day.
Speaker A:I've done it every day just to get used to it and to feel, you know, just to get into the kind of rhythm of it.
Speaker A:But just that.
Speaker A:Yeah, consistency and putting time in.
Speaker A:Because if you're going to do one post or.
Speaker A:And it's not all about Facebook, it can be about maybe doing an article or blog or.
Speaker A:Yeah, it's maybe doing a mixture of different things.
Speaker A:It's not just about the one thing.
Speaker A:I'm not on Instagram.
Speaker A:I've just kind of stuck with the one platform and, yeah, the one page, that's what.
Speaker A:That's worked for me.
Speaker A:So I think, why not?
Speaker A:I'm not going to make it any more difficult for myself.
Speaker B:Fantastic.
Speaker B:Well, thank you so much for coming along, Katrina.
Speaker B:It's been really great to see you again.
Speaker B:Chance to catch up.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:And I look forward to hearing what happens in the future.
Speaker B:I'm sure we'll have you back on, so thank you so much.
Speaker B:I loved what Katrina had to say about getting on with something.
Speaker B:Even if you feel a bit frightened about it and that actually the confidence comes later.
Speaker B:So if you're thinking about starting a social media page and you're a bit worried about what you might post, I think it would be great to take a leaf out of Katrina's book and, and try it and see how you get on.
Speaker B:Now, I've got loads of resources to support you in therapy, growth group, including things like journaling questions to help you with the prospect of self disclosure.
Speaker B:But coming up at the beginning of March is I'm going to be running my 12 Action Steps program, which includes some action steps on social media.
Speaker B:So if you join Therapy Growth Group, not only will you get lots of ideas for every day of the month to help you with your social media content, but you'll also get more guidance and support for posting on your social media page.
Speaker B:So if that's something you're interested in doing, please do go along and join Therapy Growth Group.
Speaker B:It's like Catriona says, sometimes you just have to say yes before you start thinking, oh, I'm a bit scared.
Speaker B:And it isn't about luck, it's about making the most of the opportunities that are presented to you.
Speaker B:So I hope to see you in Therapy Growth Group, where I can help you grow a social media page just like Katrina's.
Speaker A:SA.
