For those of you who have been longtime listeners, I'm sure you've heard me talk about them. We also had Andrew from Cereset Encinitas on the podcast. I believe that was episode 157. I'll make sure it's linked in the show notes below. And it has been such a wonderful kind of friendship and relationship that has since developed with them after this, and I've had now a number of clients go to them in Encinitas for a round of CSET sessions, [00:01:00] and this is such a generous, generous offer offer, 50% off is a huge discount. Typically, five CSET sessions is about 1800, and so they're offering a package of five for just $900. They've asked that this is just an offer extended in the month of April. Meaning not that you have to book all of your sessions in April, but that you will need to have purchased a package and booked out those five sessions, even if they're in a different month before the end of April.

It has been an absolutely game changing resource for me. In the intro to my episode with Andrew, I shared a bit of my experience because I did five sessions on a weekly basis, almost about a year ago now, I. And it was absolutely game changing for me at an incredibly overwhelming turbulent time in my life.

It is not any cset location. I have a really special relationship with them. And so they've been kind enough to offer this discount just to my audience at their Encinitas location in San Diego. So if you're unfamiliar with Sarah Set, I really encourage you to check out the podcast episode with them, where we go deep into the technology, the benefits, a bit of Andrew's experience, how he really feels like it pulled him back from a near death experience that really, really impacted him, mind, body, and spirit.

She uses MFR techniques to address the body's deeper layers of tension, promoting lasting relief, and emotional wellbeing. Lindsay is passionate about empowering women to reconnect with their bodies through hands-on therapy that nurtures both physical and emotional healing. Based in Shrewsbury, Vermont, she offers both in-person and virtual sessions providing a holistic approach to wellness.

Blocked, it becomes kind of hardened and then prevents energy flow and blood flow and how that can then kind of ripple out into poor physical health. Lindsay felt like such an aligned synergistic guest and I am so excited to try myofascial release myself. I'm actually really interested. She has an intensive where you fly out to Vermont and over the course of a week you do 10 hours of myofascial release in one week, and I'm so interested in doing that with her sometime.

I'm really excited about this because maybe a year, maybe even a year and a half ago, we had Sue hitman on to talk about fascia and fascial work, but more from a perspective of chronic pain, more from a physiology perspective of how your fascia might be contributing to chronic physical ailments, and it's all interconnected, which I'm sure we're gonna cover, but.

As I was listening to some other previous guest interviews you had done, I was getting so excited to talk to you about Fascia as a big support for emotional healing. Yeah. And I normally don't, I sometimes I love to dive into someone's origin story. Sometimes I'm like, we gotta get straight to the material 'cause there's so much to cover.

So I will just start by sharing a little bit about my childhood, which is that my parents split up when I was four years old, so it's a pretty early age. And then my mom remarried when I was five and we had this kind of span of time from the time I was five until I was maybe 10 or 11, where my mom and my stepdad had a really rocky relationship.

So it wasn't that I had no, it wasn't that I was lacking love in my childhood, but there just wasn't stability. And so then fast forward to my early adulthood and I had been with my husband for I think about seven years when we got married and we were newlyweds and building a life together in Vermont where he's from.

And consciously I was very happy with everything going on in my life. I loved the work that I was finding through body work. That was, at the time I was just a massage therapist, but I knew I was on the path towards something that I really loved. And I loved my husband and I loved where we lived in our community, but I still was having this feeling of wanting to flee and.

And it was concerning for me because I had just gotten married and I felt like I should have this like honeymoon phase and be really happy and I could just feel that it was deep inside of me. So, um, I walked down to my mailbox and I happened upon this brochure for myofascial release trainings with John Barnes and.

And I've always been someone that's cried and emoted, but there was something different about this release, like it was coming from a different place in my body. It just felt so, so, um, magical to me and really, really important. And from that point forward, I just knew that this was the type of work I wanted to do.

And what I came to understand in the course of my first year or year and a half doing this work, I went to a lot of seminars to learn the work. And I also received an intensive treatment in Sedona, where I went for 15 hours of treatment in one week. And it was over the course of this time that I realized that this pattern was really deeply embedded in my fascia from my childhood.

It goes from more solid to this liquid. And then, and then with that, there's this resonance and there was just somehow this resonance for my husband and I and for myself internally. And that feeling of wanting to flee was no longer there. So it, it's come up again just a tiny bit. Um, a few years ago when we purchased the land that we live on, which is 92 acres and two houses, and you know, we've now, we now have three kids.

So it was like, again, just this. It was so much stability in my life and having to kind of like, I think deep down it was this feeling of like, am I worthy of this much happiness and this much abundance? Mm-hmm. And so getting to that in a different sort of way, it didn't really manifest in the same way.

There was nothing in me that was even questioning or considering leaving my life. It was just like, okay, how do I work with this and how do I release the emotion that needs to be released and just kind of process all of this. And then that also just again, like, just kind of flowed out of me and, and settled and hasn't been back at all.

So yeah, it's been really a really beautiful journey for me. I think a couple things I'll just sit with for a second are one, I, I work in patterns. That's how I see the world. That's how I understand my own life. But also with clients. What are the patterns? What are the emotional patterns? What are the behavioral patterns?

We're stuck in patterns that really were sabotaging things and in some ways derailing Yeah. Our lives. And I think it's, you know, so that it's always a spectrum. And for, for those listening, it's kind of like, what are those patterns you feel stuck in? Some of them might be really severely impacting your life.

Some of them might not be, but it's just always this ever present feeling or narrative or impulse. And what I love about your work and the work I do, I, I'm so excited to talk about why I think what you do is so complimentary to what I do and why it's so necessary because. We don't need to be trapped with these forever.

Not that it never comes up. 'cause I agree. I see what you see where we, I don't know that we ever a thousand percent clear something where it never comes back. But it's so different. And if it does, it's maybe like a tiny little poke of the head out. And we have so many more tools and autonomy to be able to navigate it.

And for whatever reason, with my husband, he's just an amazing person and has had the ability to just kind of be with me through that and trust that. Mm-hmm. I mean, he could see like the possibility that was on the other side, I feel like. So I owe a lot to him because I think without him, I. Being the grounding force that he is, which he is like just, he's a very earthy, grounded, um, earth centered person.

He's a farmer, he's an herbalist. And so he's, he's grounded in that way and he's also, his family goes back like seven generations where we live. So he has an actual, like physical rootedness in his body that mm-hmm. I've never known, because I've never lived in a place that my family goes back that many generations.

Other than that, and I've never, I've lived in England only for a year when I studied abroad in college. But like he has a place in on the earth that his body actually feels that safety and that resonance and that stability in a such a different way than I've ever experienced. So that's a piece of it too.

But I absolutely agree with you that like no one has to live with these sorts of patterns and often they can be so, um, like negatively spiraling because it's like we have this pattern and then we're like, oh, why do I do that? And you can't figure out the reason, you can't reason your way through it necessarily consciously.

Of course, processing the present day experience. But then the bulk of what I do and what I get so excited about is what, what might be the past turbulence that could be contributing to this diagnoses? How is this diagnoses my unconscious, my mind, body, spirit communicating to me? But with that said, I primarily work with.

And I think more specifically, unconscious work of what's going on, that's not in my awareness. But sometimes what I see is if there is too much of a, I'm like making fists with my hands 'cause it's this kind of like rigidity, stuckness, hijacking. I can see it on either side that doesn't allow the narrative to shift or move through.

But I also see it flipped where someone might come into me and maybe there's not a ton of, or maybe there are some physiological patterns, but co unconsciously we're clearing a lot. And yet I. It's not fully moving through, and that's where I'm like, oh, the stuckness is in the tissue, so we need to go address the tissue first.

And so sometimes when I'm working with someone and I can see these, these unconscious beliefs are just so, so, so rigid. And even with the work I do with. Unconscious and evox therapy, it's not clearing. That's for me is like such a clear sign, oh, we've gotta go dialogue with the physical body and this is where I think fascia work comes in.

You know, sometimes people come in and they know of the pattern and other times just through the course of working with me a handful of times, I can listen to what they're saying and feel whatever is coming up in their body and kind of help them to bring awareness to the patterns. And I'm not sure how much of that you do, but um, you know, very often just what people say in passing that they think is not related to a pattern can give you those clues.

And I absolutely love being a kind of. Pattern, detective myself, I think we are kindred spirits. 'cause I, I, I love just like looking for those patterns, both of their physical body and of their movement. And also what I hear them saying from like, deep within, it's kind of like what, what they speak that they might not think is so meaningful that after I hear it a few times, I'm like, okay, there's something there.

I'm here to just listen and translate and give that back to you and then empower you to be able to see it, hear it, and make some of those shifts. Yeah, that makes so much sense. And just kind of just by being that mirror, or like you said, being a translator, just allowing someone to, um, to ex allowing, allowing them to just kind of see from a different perspective.

Sometimes by putting it in different words or speaking it in a different way, that's all that's needed. And my main teacher from myofascial release, John Barnes always says that with awareness, there's choice. So once we have that awareness, there's a little bit more of choice or options for how to move forward.

We need to dialogue with, it's your unconscious. And it's not as black and white as just, well, here's the pattern, here's the narrative. So think something different. For me, it's much more of a tending process of what, what part of me created this belief or this narrative? Mm-hmm. What does that part still need to say?

What did she never get to express? What does she need to feel safe in welcoming in new narratives? So it's, it's much, much more, and I, I think that's important to say. 'cause I see a lot of rhetoric, especially in like manifestation culture and, and sub, you know, even like limiting belief culture where it's like, I.

Yeah, and I agree. I, um, so some of the more subconscious unconscious work that I'm doing is through kind of an inner child healing and dialoguing, um, when people are on the table and then sometimes through heart healing this other modality that I use. But very often I agree that when people are able to actually voice what needed to be said at the time of trauma or in their childhood, that's when I see a pretty profound shift is like just allowing their voice to kind of come out and be clear and unfiltered.

I've already processed that or I've already talked to my therapist about that. But it's like, no, you actually need to express that in order for it to fully move through. I wanted to take a second to share about a new product I recently discovered, and you guys know I just love trying new things, but when I get introduced to something I love, I really, really love it and it becomes, usually it becomes some kind of staple in my routine, and that is exactly what this product has become.

So I haven't bought protein bars in years. There's something I just kind of gave up on, but recently one of the amazing staff at Ascent where my new LO office location is introduced me to the Jacob Bars and their title is The World's Cleanest Protein Bar. They have 20 grams of grass fed protein, no seed oils, nothing artificial.

They have three different flavors, chocolate, vanilla, that has some chocolate chips in it, and then a berry bar, and I actually love all three of them. And these have quickly become a staple at some point in my day, because usually one of my meals in the day is a meal that I need to just have a quick protein bar, maybe have a protein shake.

So these, I now have a box of these in my office at all times for those days when I need, I didn't get to have breakfast so I can just have a really, really clean, nutritious protein bar. Or same thing, I didn't get to pack lunch, so I'm gonna have this protein bar. Uh, it has absolutely blown me away with how clean it is, but also how good they taste.

Once it has first felt heard that, and that is that messy piece. I love that. That is that raw piece that is just like, just what needs to be expressed. And maybe it's words. Yeah. Maybe it's somatic movement, maybe it's just screaming. Yeah. Um, so I think that's really, really profound. I think I took us, I jumped ahead a little bit.

Yeah. Well, so fascia is, um, it's a continuous head to toe web of tissue in our bodies. It's our connective tissue, but it's essentially our whole body and it's this beautiful liquid crystal matrix that can conduct electrical currents and essentially. Provide information to any part of our body at really quick speeds.

But now there's this awareness that fascia in a dead being is very different than it is in a living being. So in a living, being, you know, we are energetic beings and, um, the ground substance of our fascia, this liquid crystal sort of goo, that makes up a lot of our fascia along with collagen and elastin.

Um, these components of our fascia make us really strong. They make us so that we can. Uh, withstand stretches and tensile forces. It makes it so that we can absorb shocks of like an impact or something like that, or a fall. And, and it provides this connectivity within our body so that it's not like our brain sending a signal to a cell.

That basically, if we've had an experience that we can't fully process at the time, so you could consider that a trauma or whatever you wanna call that. If we have emotion that didn't get expressed, we just kind of store it in our tissue. It's just, it's there. It's there in the waters of our body. Kind of our body is like filling up.

Mm-hmm. Filling up, filling up with as much emotion as we keep in. And when we cry, we let that out. Right. Or when we emote in some other way. But when we don't, that emotion, which should really be energy in motion, is just kind of creating this dam of mm-hmm. Energy in our body. So it's like prevents the flow of, of energy, but also nutrition and waste.

But these little tendrils of fascia will slide and glide along each other and they'll disconnect and reconnect elsewhere. And where was I going with this about emotions? Um, well, basically just that throughout our entire body, this is happening. And so when we have emotions that we are not allowing to express, we are creating this spot where the tissue becomes more solid, it becomes more restricted, and it's like a dam of energy.

And without allowing those to express, it's just, we're just filling up our tissue and it's starting to solidify in there the longer it's in there. Yeah. I, I love that. I think it's making me think of, so my practice is, is inside of a holistic. Kind of health center. And one of the practitioners, a dear friend of mine, Danielle Palmer, does skinnar therapy and bio modulator and all these energy therapies and they can, they always measure the different meridian systems to see where there are gaps or blocks in the flow of energy.

Oh, they have had different ailments over the lifetime and usually the spot where the cancer is, is a part of that meridian system. Interesting. But it's making me, me kind of pull all these pieces together with what you're seeing. Maybe a part. Right. Um, Danielle talks a lot about surgeries and scars and how scar tissue is not electrically conductive anymore.

Yeah, yeah. And that can be a part of why that electrical circuit gets broken. But you're making me think that this fascia component is such a huge factor here where when something gets repressed, I like to use the word metabolized or unmetabolized. Yes. So when an experience, an emotion, a narrative is not metabolized, it gets stored in that fascia, which then, from what I understand, causes that hardening, which then maybe restricts the energy flow.

And um, I'm just thinking of, you know, this idea, what the reason that myofascial release the type of body work I practice is so amazing is that it creates this piso electricity. So it's this pressure electricity. So when we put pressure into the system with our hands, then something happens where the fascia starts to create these electrical charges and.

I was talking this morning about how it's not just that someone's had a surgery, right? It's like all of the things that surround that surgery. So it might be all of the fear that they felt before the surgery and that could be like for months and years or like not feeling heard by their doctors or whatever it is.

I've had, you know, clients who've had an appendix removed at five years old and go into a room and get left alone and don't even really know what's happening. You know, there's like things like that. There's so many different layers and that's the beauty with myofascial release too, is we can feel that things actually come off in layers and it's not necessarily that it's just one emotion that's in one release as well.

So it's not saying it's in, you know, the shoulder, the left shoulder or something, but like working in one part of the body. Um, and it's just, it's a, it's a beautiful thing to see, to witness when that release happens and you see this change in their structure, kind of feel the life come back into them.

I know that this is the next piece of the puzzle that I'm ready to integrate. Mm-hmm. But I think, so I can kind of wrap my head around it and the audience too. What, what does a session look like? And I think maybe what might be helpful is how is a myofascial release session different from something like a chiropractic or a massage session?

Yeah, so the main differences are that in a myofascial release session, I'll just say when someone comes in for a session, they usually have an a standing assessment first to see. I try to notice. You know, what kind of misalignment is in their body, or I really just use my intuition to kind of look at their body and see if my eyes are drawn anywhere in particular, anywhere that there's sort of like an aura mm-hmm.

And so then from there, it's really just me using my intuition to decide where to work first. And it might be as simple as. Kind of sandwiching my hands, say like one hand on their sacrum and the other hand on their low abdomen. And just holding there and feeling myself feeling for the restriction and the energetics of that area.

So we like move them in that direction of ease. Mm-hmm. So someone might come in and they're. Upper body might be twisted like this. That's the direction I'm gonna start when I work with them. I'm not just gonna immediately twist 'em to the opposite direction. And so sometimes that can just kind of unlock their tissue and allow them to come into more coherence in their body.

Um. And the body, the myofascial work is full body. So it's like cranial work. It's, it can be, um, internal pelvic work. It can be really literally anywhere on the body. Um, and that's an important aspect of it because you can have a restriction in one part of your body and it can tug into your body to a different place.

And that could be that their pelvis is out of balance. It could be that they have cranial bones misaligned. It could be really anything. And, um, I do love complimentary therapies like chiropractic and acupuncture, and myofascial release is really supportive. Of those therapies because when the fascia is more fluid, then a chiropractic adjustment will hold longer because essentially like the, the fascia is what is holding your skeleton in place so you can go and get adjusted, but if the fascial restrictions are continuing to tug you into misalignment, that's often why you have to keep going time and time again.

So fascia work before chiropractic is great and before acupuncture as well, because acupuncture is working with the meridians and your meridians run through fascia. And so if you can release the restrictions around those meridians, it's only going to help that therapy do what it's meant to do. Mm-hmm.

But what I really hope people take away from this is if you have chronic or cyclical emotional patterns. Yeah, behavioral patterns. I think on top of at some point doing unconscious work. Cognitive unconscious work doing myofascial release too. I really, really do believe it's all pieces of the puzzle and you know, we need different pieces at different times.

And while it's amazing that we have these holistic, non-toxic modalities to support that, we also need to be asking these bigger questions. Why? Why does it keep going out of place? Yeah. That's not random. There's something contributing to this. Why does my, why are my meridians continuously getting imbalanced?

And yeah, it's amazing. I mean, the, that, I think that was some of it for me was once that pattern shifted for me of feeling comfortable with stability, I suddenly could feel more joy. And that's really like, I. I think that's the goal of life, right? It's just like to feel happy and joyful and enjoy your life.

Yeah. So anything we can do in regard to that, I think is always positive. Yeah. And they're not finite. Literally on my website I kind of say like, the ultimate goal is that you have more joy, peace, and alignment. Yes. Yes. And those are not finite. If you, if you have so much joy already tending to some of these other things, there will just be even more of that.

Alignment. But it's so interesting because I find myself, as I said, there's been, there's been some kind of recent upheaval with, with my father who was kind of our main abuser as a kid and mm-hmm. And it's stirred up a lot of old things for me, and I feel myself going, oh, okay, this is like a deep, a deep tending time I'm entering into and with him.

Of the patterns. And I do this unconscious work on myself often, but something about this new experience and how good it is, I feel my body is just like tightening up and bracing. Yeah. And my body is like, no, no, no. I don't care what you say, what you think, what you do. This is not safe for me to receive.

Yeah. And that's what's kind of brought me to this, oh, it's time I need to, I need to dialogue with my body. Yeah. No, that's such, such beautiful awareness for you to have. And I can just absolutely relate and it's so common that I see this amongst my clients where um, yeah. Even though you've, I'm sure, processed a lot around what happened to you in your childhood.

You know, like I said, with this, when we could finally buy this land that we were dreaming about living on, it was like suddenly I was just kind of like, oh my gosh. It was like at the time that, um, my business was growing a lot and so there was just so much goodness. And then the interesting thing for me with that, that I realized too is like once I moved through that then, and it, it wasn't that long after I moved through that, that we then conceived my daughter, my third baby, and I really feel like.

And so if you had that experience as a child, you know, that would be, if you were my client, that would be my recommendation is to, is to really dive into your pelvis and just kind of see what it needs to speak and say very often there's some mm-hmm. Some amount of just, um, holding onto there, whether it was.

For nearly every single woman that I work with, there's something like that. For any of you who follow me on Instagram, you'll probably have seen that a few weeks ago I did my first ProLon fast mimicking program and I was so blown away with how, how easy it was, how accessible it was. The unbelievable results that I experienced that I had to share it here on the podcast.

For those who aren't aware, ProLon is a five day fast mimicking program. What blew me away was the impact because the magic of ProLon is that even though you're eating, it has been scientifically developed to put your body into a fasting state. And when we're in a fasting state, that is where so much magic happens in the cells.

I lost 2% body fat. But the other markers that I was really excited to track were my inflammation went down significantly. My phase angle went up significantly, which I'm gonna talk about a lot more because I decided I'm gonna record a short solo episode going super, super in depth into the ProLon fast mimicking program, and more in depth into my results and what some of these measurements mean.

Yeah, I think there's the, you know, what are, what might be big patterns someone is experiencing, but the reality is we're humans on this planet. No one's getting out of, no one's getting out of this life unscathed in some way. Yeah. Mm-hmm. That's right. And none of us are getting out of childhood without some imprints.

So on the one hand it's, Hey, if you are in deep distress, these can be powerful, powerful tools. And then also on the other hand, it's. This would be amazing for anyone to do at some point, because chances are you've got something stored in your fascia for me, it's chances are you've got something stored in your unconscious.

And if you are very restricted in your fascia, that can't happen. And so you can feel this kind of like just dull blah energy, like not feel this creative, um, fire essentially. And that's, that's what I think of a lot with our bodies. Oh my gosh, I love that so, so much. I think something I might ask, I know there's a million places we could go with this, but.

For anyone listening, I, I know you, you see people in person and I do wanna talk about some of your workshops and your intensive, that excites me so much. But I do think something would be, might be interesting is if someone's looking for a practitioner, is there anything in particular they might want to be on the lookout for, to where they might know this is a really qualified person versus this is someone who's sort of not really trained in it.

And it's, I think it's. Uh, I'm trying to remember the website. I think it's, oh, I'll find it. Uh, we can find it. Okay. So if you look at the directory, um, for a myofascial release therapist, that's a good place to start. But then I really think it is an intuitive sort of feeling like you actually want to feel resonance with the person that you're working with.

But I think you can have, um, really great experiences with any therapist who you've just had that sort of resonance with. And that might take going to them one time to know. But I would encourage when people are looking up someone on a website. Maybe listening to them speak on a podcast or social media or something like that to really just kind of like, feel from your heart and see if you feel this energetic resonance with that person.

And if you just allow your hand to really sink into the tissue there and then traction downward, so you can't even really see my hands moving, but I'm just kind of tractioning downward and giving a little bit of a tug there. And then what you can do is you can let your head move and create this stretch between your heart space and your chest and your head, and.

The thing with myofascial techniques is you wanna hold this for at least three to five minutes, so it's a long time. Mm-hmm. Like 10 minutes is even better. Mm-hmm. And that's how you really get into the collagen part of your fascia and get to this, um. This, there's something that's called interleukin eight that's an anti-inflammatory.

And that's just a way to get into, I think, into the heart space and just kind of see what's present there. And probably if you do that one thing and hold it for that amount of time, you'll feel some amount more openness in your chest. And from there you might notice other parts of your body kind of speaking up, like, I want you to work on this part or this part.

'cause once you work in one place, it's kind of like, it opens the floodgates to your body just being like, oh, they're there. This person is there now listening to me, listening to the tissue. And from there it will want more touch. Mm-hmm. And there is some amount of pressure. It's, it's not just resting your hand.

So yeah, it's, um, mm-hmm. It is working energetically the way reiki does, but it's obviously working with the fascial tissue and very often when I'm working on people, I can feel that there's this. Energetic shifting happening under my hands. I can kind of feel the fluidity of their tissue and how it almost feels like there's a river, like under their skin.

That looks amazing. Oh, yeah. It would be great to have you. Um, so the, the intensive or immersion that I offer that I call the deep alchemy immersion is a 10 hour, 10 hour treatment. In one week, I used to do 15 hours, but now I'm pretty set on 10 hours. I think it's enough time for most people to really kind of break through their holding patterns, but that's the idea with those intensives or immersions is that I.

So I have myofascial breast care, um, internal pelvic care. So that one is really great for all women, but especially women who've had any sort of trauma and especially sexual trauma. You know, that's one that I just think it's really important that women learn how to touch their internal pelvis therapeutically.

And then I have a head, neck and jaw class. I have a pregnancy class and I've just released, um, fascia Care for Kids and Infant Fascia Care so that parents can learn how to do this work on their own children. And then my sort of larger group offering that I have is called Pelvic Alchemy, and it's specifically going into the subconscious through these meditative journeys and, and doing the hands-on work as well.

Oh my gosh, it's so beautiful. Are, are all the courses ever green other than this, this alchemy course where anyone can just jump on or are they all live taught? So I, I teach the breast care, the head, neck and jaw and the internal pelvic class, um, once or twice a year. And I teach those live, but they are always available to get the recording online and the other ones are, are recorded.

It feels like a really good start of the year practice to do because I love the like deep inward journeying that happens in it, and it's a small group gathering that we have, so it's a really special one that I like. Yeah. Oh my gosh, I, it's so beautiful. Even when I was listening to some of your other episodes, I was like, they're so, I love practitioners who are nuanced and there's these elements of Yeah.

Tending ourselves and also kind of creating tending spaces for clients. So thank you so much for being here, Lindsay. Yeah, thank you so much. And I will just say that I think that, um, it also just, it's a matter of the person wanting to go there, right? Like, I'm sure you see this too, but it sounds like people are seeking you out for this reason.

But, um, I've had clients that, you know, come in and they don't have these big releases, and that's just where they're at at the time. And then I've had other clients that come in and they know they're on the precipice of some sort of release that's going to change their lives. And then they, they allow any of that to come up.

Mm-hmm. A thousand percent. It's not about forcing it, if you know it's, I, I really tend to take, and it sounds like you do too, that gentle approach of, no, we're not here to strong arm the unconscious. We're not here to, right. Because if there's a protective mechanism, maybe that was three-year-old, you who created that, we're not here to come in and bully her into submission.

We're here to go, Hey, little one, what do you need to feel safe moving forward into a different narrative, into a different life, into a different future? And sometimes that little one's like, I'm not even ready to talk about it yet. Sometimes that part is like, I, I need to just feel this for a few weeks before I'm even ready to consider different narratives.