“The difference between a good businessman and a bad businessman is the good one fails and learns.”

A tradie builds momentum fast. Makes money fast. Spends it faster. Learns the hard way about GST, tax, super, and the cost of looking like you’ve “made it”. Then the pressure stacks up, burnout hits, and the whole thing starts to wobble.

Andrew Hopkins (Hoppo from Hopkins Construction) walks through the real comeback: rebuilding a construction business with better boundaries, a stronger brand, and a work week that actually fits parenting. It also gets practical on social media for tradies (recording vs editing), why AI in construction is useless without clean systems, and how to handle trolls without losing sleep.

If you’re a builder, carpenter, landscaper, or tradie thinking about starting a construction business, this is the reality check and the roadmap.

CHAPTER MARKERS

00:00: Intro

04:36: Meet Andrew “Hoppo” Hopkins (Hopkins Construction)

06:09: Leaving school early and starting a carpentry apprenticeship

07:00: Getting suspended from an apprenticeship

08:50: Snowboard accident + income protection for tradies

11:05: Starting a business naive (tax, super, entitlements)

13:11: Tradie overspending (Rangers, trailers, debt)

18:10: Partnership breakup + learning from failure

22:07: Burnout: when the business runs but you crash

23:10: Tradie dads being present is hard

27:13: Rebuilding life and work after the split

29:10: Boundaries and setting expectations with clients

31:39: Social media on site: recording vs editing

37:31: AI in construction: fundamentals first

41:10: How many hours content creation really takes

48:10: Weird brand deals, saying no, and not being a sellout

52:15: Trolls, comments, and protecting younger tradies

56:28: MEGT Mindful Moment: advice for apprentices starting a business

Our Sponsors:

Pro Clima - https://mindful-builder.captivate.fm/proclima

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Connect with us on Instagram: @themindfulbuilderpod

Connect with Hamish:

Instagram: @sanctumhomes

Website: www.yoursanctum.com.au/

Connect with Matt:

Instagram: @carlandconstructions

Website: www.carlandconstructions.com/

Mentioned in this episode:

Proclima Sponsor

Hi, Hamish.

Hello, Matthew.

So before we start, um, I just wanna point out, if you zoom in on the right-hand

side of my face here, Matt tried to knock me the fuck out before we even

started this podcast, and I've got a cut on the side of my face So thanks, Matt.

Was that the a- anchor position?

Yeah, it wa- Oh, it's over there It was.

But you know what?

I got it.

I'm in front of the sign.

Yes, absolutely.

I'm, I'm in front of

the- You look tough.

You're gonna go home

tonight and be like, "Look how tough

I am, Lucy." Lu- Lucy's like, "Did you cut it with your nail or something?" Probably.

Uh, we are coming from another mobile, uh, Pro Clima BuildTec studio, this

time at our good friends at Performance Membranes, uh, HQ here in Melbourne.

And today we are joined by Andrew Hopkins, the influencer.

It's…

I don't know.

Construction creator, isn't it?

I

can't…

Construction content creator.

Well, your email signature was influencer at the bottom.

What?

No.

I, uh… Hey,

Matty, before we go, how was your trip?

Good.

I, uh… So I was in Bali last week.

Yeah, last week.

So day one, getting out of the spa with Noah, the little one.

So I step down, so it's like a raised spa, and it's like, so two tile edges

on each side and then, like, steps down, and I got… hit the last step and just

ate absolute shit and completely slipped.

So I pulled No- like, split second, pushed Noah out.

I've whacked my head on the back of the tile and ended up in hospital with

seven stitches in the back of my head.

Oh.

So yeah, Bali was awesome.

Bali sounded great.

Um-

Could you get your head wet after that?

No, I couldn't.

But ironically, the hospital, the closest hospital, I was… It could've been really

bad, was a, um, cosmetic surgeon, so.

Oh, perfect.

Yeah, so.

Did they do any hair stuff while they were-

They're like, "Do you want, do you want a, do you want a boob job?"

And I'm like, "No," so.

We're having a two for one offer today.

But it's funny, 'cause they were stitching me up, and she's like, "How do you want

the stitches?" I was like, "I don't know."

How do you want the stitches?

No, 'cause that's, they're obviously a cosmetic surgeon, so when they would

stitch, they, a lot of the surgeries would be having to, and if you're a

doctor listening, I might be wrong here, like internally stitch so it

hides the cut- Oh, yeah … and brings it together so there's no seam almost.

Where on my head I couldn't give two shits if it's just

stitch it and bring it together.

But, um, other than that, Bali was awesome.

Uh, the resort we're at was insane, I won't lie.

Like, it was a bit over the top, but, um-

It looked a bit, like, fancy.

Yeah, so it- Too

fancy

for you.

So it, yeah, it was… But it, so I got on Luxury Escapes.

It was 12 grand, but it was 67% off, and it was worth… I could understand

why people would pay 12 grand.

Yeah.

'Cause it was just, like, insane.

And

lux- lu- like- So

was it the 12 grand before or after the discount?

No,

no,

it's be- yeah.

So

we didn't make the

podcast completely worthless.

Podcast isn't doing that well.

Um- And,

and, and, and Luxury Escapes, you get one free call-out,

the next one's gonna cost you.

So, um, if you wanna- … if you wanna stay on to the program.

Yeah,

honestly, like-

Next podcast, you guys will be like, "That's

why I…" We might even

recor-

recording in, like, in, in location somewhere.

Absolutely.

But it was, it's, it was just w- it was worth it for the

week off just to turn off.

I didn't check my emails once.

I read a book.

Actually, awesome book.

Um- What was it called?

Uh, I've gone blank.

It was by a brain surgeon, and it was pretty much he was

talking about, uh… It was-

Sounded like a really

great reading book for you … No, no, it

was a brain surgeon, but what he- Yeah, they, they,

they do responsible.

No, but what he was- Yeah.

Yeah.

What he was talk, what he was talking about is- Dog man.

He, he talks about, like, there's so many, like, myths in our world now,

and he pretty much breaks it down from a brain scientist point of view, and

says, like, "All these fad diets, these are the ones that will help your brain.

These won't.

Like, these mind training games, these won't work, but this is how you can

mind train to, to increase longevity and stuff." So just a really interesting book.

So your, your, your latest ADHD focus is longevity?

Yeah, starting.

Yeah,

okay.

Love it.

As of today, so I can't have coffee today.

For, for 24 hours, and I'm back on it.

I'm in- Anyway

… I'm interested to see how the commitment's gonna go, 'cause, say, you find out

your results- Yeah … and it's like, "All right, you need to do this, this,

and this." You'll be like, "All right, well, what's my next hyperfocus now?"

Yeah, this is, that's, that's… So this is what I was scared

about going overseas, 'cause no computer, no book and a book club.

I said to Nicole, like, "What business idea am I gonna come up with?"

Oh.

Yeah.

Yeah, so I go, I go away this Friday for 10 days, and I have been, been very

clear with people that I'm not working.

I… You send me an email, I might check it, but-

No, I'm not even going

to do that

… I,

I find when I'm away, I've just got this space to think-

Yeah

without any noise, and I absolutely love it.

So I'm probably the same as you, Matt.

I'm gonna come back, and I'm just gonna, like, be dumping

new things on the whole team.

Oh, I've

got, I've got three things from our podcast that I haven't

spoken to you about yet.

But, um, I… That I don't think they'll be a surprise,

but I just like sitting there.

And things come to you, I feel, when you have a break.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Well,

I think you've got the space.

Anyway, w- today, um, Andrew, I'm gonna let you

introduce yourself here.

Five minutes in, six minutes in, and we're finally introducing the guest.

Yeah.

It's a record, I think.

Andrew, who are you?

Influence, influence me.

What was it?

Ho- Hoppo, though?

Hoppo?

Hoppo, Hoppo.

Hoppo.

I don't know.

I didn't… I was like, "What? I've got Hoppo written down." Hoppo.

Yeah.

I've actually Hoppo written down

too.

Andrew Hopkins, AKA Hoppo.

Hopkins Construction.

Um-

Influencer.

Influencer.

Getting into that space.

Um, carpenter, structural landscaper into, uh, yeah, the content

space as much as- I can see fit.

How- So, wh- wh- where did it start for you?

Like, let's go all the way back.

As in construction wise?

Yeah, yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah, tell us your, you know what?

Tell us your backstory.

'Cause I reckon, um, 2017- Mm-hmm … I reckon I called you through Sam Collie.

Think Sam Collie gave me- Yeah … your phone nu- phone number, and, uh,

I needed an extra set of hands there, extra set of chippy hands.

And he goes, "I'll give this guy a call." But Sam did say to me, "He's on social

media all the time, so just be careful."

So I started following you, and th- I remember those days when

we actually passed something through, like a hedge or something.

Yeah.

Do you remember that post?

Oh, man.

I just I, I will go back … like, I don't, yeah … I'm going back.

Anyway, anyway, I'm digressing.

Sorry.

Your story, not my story.

Oh, curious.

Yeah, yeah.

Um, so in school, loved school.

Standard, um, you know, had potential, but I can't concentrate,

gets distracted too easily.

Mm. Um, all very true.

And I thought, "You know what?

I wa-

Where'd you grow

up?

Hillsville.

Hillsville, yeah, beautiful.

Yarra Valley boy.

Yep.

Um, and I just thought, "You know what? I want to be a chippy."

Yeah.

Chippies are cool.

I, I don't really have a, a, a passion for carpentry or

woodwork or anything like that.

I just w- liked the idea of just being super busy all the time.

Yep.

And, you know, um, and my parents had this beautiful mud brick house

they bought, who was built by Chris O'Brand from O'Brand Constructions.

I don't know if you them at all.

Um, they're out of the Yarra Valley.

And they go, "Well, give him a call." So I was, walked down there, sorry,

handed him my resume, did some work experience, and, um, ended up getting

an apprenticeship through him, and-

Did you finish school or-

No, I left at year 11.

Yeah.

Yeah, got out of there.

Didn't like, I was-

But you said you loved school

… good at school.

I loved school.

I love, I loved the social aspect of school.

I did love learning- Yeah, okay … but I just- Yeah, okay … I just could not

sit in a classroom for- Yeah … six, seven… I couldn't sit still.

I couldn't- Yeah … you know.

Yeah.

Um, did most of my apprenticeship there.

Had, um, actually got suspended from my apprenticeship.

S- so how do you get suspended from your apprenticeship?

I've never heard it before.

I don't know if he made it up, but it, um, I got s- … anger management apparently.

I, I was a r- rage-y little kid, and, um- Had good work.

I would always rock up early, always worked hard.

But he goes, "Maybe…" Yeah, and I have full respect for Chris.

He came and had a meeting at my parents' house.

Sat down there in the lounge room, had, you know, "I don't know if this

is suited for Andrew. He's, you know, he really struggles to concentrate.

Maybe more labor-intensive job." And I used that as, like, bait.

Not bait, sorry.

Like, uh, ammo.

Yeah.

Just go.

And I ended up getting a, finishing my apprenticeship with someone who did, like,

sort of carpentry and, and maintenance on, like, electrical substations all around

Victoria, and all really cool, like.

And then got into framing after that and, um, did a bit of everything.

Do you want to go back to you at that, that boss?

What was his name again, sorry?

Chris O'Brien.

Chris.

So Chris, the fact that he had enough respect for you- Mm … at

that point in time, because he could've just told you to fuck off.

100%, yeah.

And just, "Mate, this is not-" How old were you

at that stage?

18?

No, I was, oh, probably 19,

yeah.

Yeah.

But the fact that he's gone and, you know, taken the time to chat

with you and your parents, I think, you know, there's a lot in that.

Mm. Yeah.

There's a lot in that.

No, and I've got no bad blood at all about the whole thing.

Yeah.

I actually, I'm sort of grateful for that conversation and that, you know?

Yeah, definitely.

It's just,

it's a point I needed.

I think, I think that's a really good example of how

you should give feedback, too.

Mm. Particularly in our industry.

And you know, if we're going back, how old are you now?

20-odd years ago.

Yeah.

Yes.

20-odd years ago, like, that's probably unheard of back then.

Ep- yeah.

That's like a hammer on the fuck off, you're, you're done.

Yeah.

Throw your stuff off

site

on your way

home.

Yeah, exactly, yeah.

Yeah, exactly.

Yeah, cool.

Good on him.

Good on Chris.

Yeah.

Shout out to Chris.

He was a weapon.

Absolute weapon.

Like, yeah.

And so you finished framing, then y- you started to start

your own construction company.

Yeah, I went and worked for a, um… So I actually had a

bad, uh, snowboard accident.

Oh.

Tore my shoulder apart.

Oh, wow.

Um.

Whereabouts?

Uh, at Buller.

No, Falls Creek, sorry.

Falls Creek.

And I wasn't gonna go.

It was really bad snow.

My partner at the time, her family always went up there, and they go,

"Oh, come up." And I'm like, "Oh, I'm not flush with cash at the moment.

I don't think it's a good idea." And I went anyway, and yeah, ripped it

off.

Definitely weren't flush with cash after that.

No, no.

Something maybe four months off from work.

Wow.

Um-

Surgery?

Yeah, full reco.

Like- Yeah, right … I had to sit up there for two days with

it just completely torn apart.

Do you have

income protection?

No.

So that if you are a tradie- Oh, yeah … on the tools-

Yeah.

I-

if you don't have income protection and you are qualified, even if you're

on the books, you're a fucking id- if you don't have it, you're an idiot.

Yeah.

Fucking idiot.

It is.

I'll, I'll say it.

Like, it is honestly one of the… It's, I… From my understanding,

it's fully tax deductible as well.

Um-

Yeah, because Work, WorkSafe or WorkCover covers you for, you know, any accidents

on site, but it doesn't cover you for anything that you do on the weekend.

Yeah.

So-

Even, like, playing sports.

Yep.

Yeah, so I was, I think I would've been maybe 21 then, and I was, you

know, lucky I was still at home- Mm-hmm … and, and everything.

I, few… I learned from it.

Yeah.

But, um, yeah, then went into landscaping after that, got an opportunity to work

with someone in the landscaping space.

I thought, "I wanna learn new things. Cool." Yep.

"I'll give it a shot." And, um- Who was

that with?

Uh, his name's Andrew Bowling.

So it's just a small- Yeah … a small, little, like, two-man crew.

And, um, learned a lot of, like, how to talk to clients and the little

things and- Mm … about approaching, like, if you wanna win a job, going

in there and, you know, picking so- something off the, off the fridge

of, like, one of the kids' drawings.

Yeah.

So you go in there and you, you're gonna s- obviously-

Seeing, seeing the golf clubs in the- Exactly

in the corner and,

you know.

Right.

Bringing yourself down to the kid's level- Yeah … to talk to him, shaking

the, the husband and the wife's hand.

Yeah.

Just those little th- Yeah … I learn, learn a lot of that

from him, which is great.

Learning the kids' names.

Yeah, yeah.

I'm still a shocker for- Yeah … introducing yourself to someone

at the door and then, like- Oh,

I'm, names,

I suck

trying to remember one of the second.

So it's always like, "Hey, if you could just send me a follow-up.

Here's my email, text message with your, all your details on." Yep, yep.

You know, try to keep it as less offensive as possible- Yeah … that

I wasn't, you know, paying attention.

But, um, yeah, and then took the plunge to go out on my own.

My brother-in-law at the time, his boss had just gone under, and, um, he's

like, "Hey, we should do our own thing." I'm like, "What have we got to lose?

Let's just do it." And, um, yeah, we lived it up not knowing about

taxes and supers and all this stuff.

We were just like- So

just, so you guys were a, just a simple partnership?

Yeah.

Like not a proprietary limited?

Yeah.

Yeah.

We just had a really bad accountant that r- that didn't tell us much.

And- Yeah.

Talk, talk to us about that … so we, yeah, we just, we're just going in

completely naive, just like, "Oh, we'll just start up a business like his boss

did, my old boss did with, you know, just how they used to do it back in the '80s."

And, um, we would go to the pub every second day, buy

motorbikes, go on wakeboarding.

So I was just living it up and, "Cash out." "Okay, yeah, no worries." And

then, um, it all caught up with us.

Yep.

We had an apprentice and he left and he's like, "Hey, where's this and where's

that?" And I was like, "I don't know.

I'll talk to the accountant."

And he's like

Well, so s- so super, holiday pay, Inco-

Inca Link, whatever it is.

Yeah,

that's- Yeah.

Yeah, so… And we paid it all back.

It's all, you know, it's just a hard lesson.

And does everyone go through that at some point?

Yeah, I did.

Whether it's a f- few thousand dollars or- Mm, yeah … tens and tens of thousands,

you might not survive.

I think it's the harsh reality of running a business, especially construction,

is you think you get- I think

I, I think I mentioned this on, on a previous podcast, but what's

the one that we've gotta pay?

It's not Inca Link, it's these c- Uh, it's

Co-Invest, which is now Leave Plus.

Leave Plus, whatever.

Yeah.

So I got caught out, uh, four years ago with Leave, 'cause I got given some bad

advice, and it cost me 20 or 25 grand.

Mm. Had to pay it all back.

Yeah.

It's like, oh, I've s- done my whole, I've dug myself into that one.

I've gotta figure that out.

And that's, you know, I'd been in business for six or seven years by then.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So it's not uncommon to…

No.

And, and, and it's a hard, it's a hard lesson.

You're not taught to run a business, and especially for this construction.

We talk about, like, the typical tradie, yeah, leaves school at, I don't know,

year 11 and- Yeah … not generally academic, so running the business, they

just think, "I've got $10,000 being paid. Sick, I can go spend it all." But really-

Yeah … Mr. Tax Man's gonna take 30%.

Probably gonna have to pay another te- 10% of GST, and all of a sudden you've

only got 60 cents left on the dollar before you've gotta pay your suppliers.

But I think there's also this, um, this false, I don't even

know what I want to say here.

It's like this false persona of what a tradie should be, and it's

driving the Ranger with a tool- Yeah … tool trailer on the back.

And oh, I need to do that.

Yeah.

$70,000 tra- uh, $70,000 Ranger, 20, $30,000 trailer.

Yeah.

You're 100 grand in, and you're earning maybe 100 grand

a year.

Yeah.

That's hard.

Like, that's a long time to pay that back.

If I

s- if I had an apprentice rock up in a Ranger, I'd be like, "You're done."

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Like- With your 95 Rover … a new, a

new, a new one.

Yeah.

But righto.

Or, or, or get a van.

Yeah.

Well, that's what we did in the partnership.

As soon as we got sort of a contract with a bit of work, um, we were working,

we were living in Hillsville and working in Martha Cove, doing a lot

of the frames and 5,000 down there.

Oh, where, where's that?

So we worked dark till dark.

It's down,

uh- Safety Beach … Safety Beach, yeah.

Oh, yeah, yeah.

Driving down there dark till dark every day.

We went and bought two brand-new Rangers.

Eight-by-five cage trailer, a 10-by-six tool trailer, which was a beast,

but then you had to tow the thing.

Um, and we were like- Whoa …,"Yeah, this is living."

Um, it was the opposite.

Wow.

So… Yeah, but do you know what, though?

Uh, I've been there.

Mm.

I've, you know, I've… Yeah.

Anyway.

Well, I- I don't see the attraction of it I, I, I'm, I'm the flip side, so

I've nev- I don't get excited by toys.

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

I, I, I just, cars… Like, we've got Joel coming on here.

I joke, he jokes- Yeah.

I live, I drive a Tesla.

Yeah.

Not complaining right now with fuel prices, but like- Yeah.

Yeah … i- i- i- it's, uh, I think that, like I'm a- I,

I, I get confused about that.

I think that, again, you said, Hayne, that there's this persona of

tradies, uh, they have to have this, where, but where's it come from?

Because the old school tradies never used to have it.

Yeah.

They still got the shitty old van.

Well

dr- and the driver like, where I started, it was a lot of like XF wagons- Yeah,

yeah, yeah … and stuff like that.

And a couple of old panel vans and s- yeah, it was… But I

feel like a l- a little bit of that character's coming back now.

Yeah.

I feel like it's almost cool to dr- I mean, they're pretty unreliable

a lot of them now, but people are pulling up in troopys and, you know.

Yeah, I think it's just gotta be fit prefer- fit prefer- fit for purpose.

I got that out eventually.

Yeah.

Don't go the yellow leather.

Yeah.

But no, I, yeah, I, I don't know.

But I think- You wouldn't be where you are today if you hadn't have gone

and made all those mistakes, though.

Oh.

So there is, there is value in fucking up and finding out.

So how do you teach mistakes?

I feel like there's that much information that people have spoken

about it time and time and time again, but, uh, people just think that, "Oh,

no, that won't be me, though." Yeah.

Like, "I, the tax man won't come get me."

Well, it's hard because the people that are ambitious to put themselves in the

positions to go out and start their own businesses and that are often ones that

went against the grain, aren't they?

Yeah.

Yeah.

So it's like- It's a good point, yeah … you, you know someone's gonna sort of go

out there and fuck up and, you know- Yeah … find out their own way, but you can try

and assist them, but it's almost like you know you're gonna gain that respect later.

Yeah.

It's like, you know, with your parents.

They're, they're telling you off as a kid, and you're thinking, "They're

grinding and grinding and grinding."

Them knowing well that they're not gonna get respect back

from that advice for 30 years- Yeah … until they have kids and go-

Yeah

… " Fuck, Mum was right when she said that." Yep,

yep.

So it's like you're telling these apprentices now, like, "Try to avoid

this." It's almost like you're steering the direction to it, because all

they hear is, "Try this, try this."

Yeah.

And then when they've got their own thing, they'll call you up and be like,

" Hey." Oh, but the younger generation, I've spoken about this multiple

times, they're a little bit different, a little bit precious.

Yes.

Yeah.

Hmm.

What are your thoughts on that?

Oh, yeah, it's-

' Cause we're all-

I, I only hire country-

late 30s,

40s

… I just try to hire country kids.

They were different.

Yeah.

Yeah.

They were different.

That's a good point.

Yeah, our country kids, and it's, it's when I had, and we'll probably touch on

this later, but our crew, I, I really struggled, 'cause I was taught off these

blokes that were like straightening walls with tomahawks and getting

hit by their bosses and all right.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So it's very hard to, like, get that out of your… You know,

it's very just dirty and direct.

Yeah.

Not, I'm not being rude.

I'm just being direct, so you can't mince my words.

Yeah.

And to them they're like, "Jesus, he's so rude," and- So mean … they're

bummed for the day about it.

Yeah.

You're like, "No, what the f-…

I'm not…" It's, it's a bad investment for me to make you upset

and not progress throughout the day.

Yeah.

So I'd have my other guys that almost sort of be the filter for that.

Yeah.

So I'd have my country guys that would work hard, and it's almost

like I wouldn't favor them, but like, you know, it was a bit of incentive

for the other guys to like- Yeah

all

right.

So you, so you were in this partnership, and when… What happened there?

Yeah, it was just, it just turned to shit.

Four years.

Yeah.

Four years of just doing the wrong thing.

I'm actually super grateful it happened.

Yep.

Um, but yeah, we just had a big messy bust up, and he was with my sister.

They were married, and then e- everything just, just turned to shit really.

Um-

Do you still talk to him now?

No.

Is he still married to your sister?

No.

Okay.

No.

So it's

all- Well, makes it, makes it a bit easier

… yeah, yeah.

Yeah . Um, but a shame.

Like it was a bit of a hard, darker path for him after that.

Really good carpenter.

Yeah.

Really good.

Horrific businessman.

Like, I mean, I'm still not a fantastic businessman by any

means, but, um, but I think we sort of leant on each other a lot.

I was like the more of the sales, my go out there, I can

get the work, bring it in.

And he was really good at what he did.

Do, do you know what?

I just had this epiphany then.

I reckon the difference between a good businessman and a bad businessman is

that the good businessman is gonna fail and learn, a bad businessman

is gonna fail and not learn.

Yeah.

Oh.

That's, that's the, that's the clear-cut simplicity of business.

Yeah.

Because no one knows all the answers.

No.

And you are gonna fail and fuck up, and you, as long as you can learn from it and

move on, then I guess that's what puts you in good stead for the next thing.

Yeah.

Would you ever reach out and say, "Would you want to grab a

coffee and just have a chat?"

Is there part of you that wants to, like, close that chapter on a good note?

Um…

That's deep.

For, for my, for my niece, a little bit.

But for me, I've just got-

It's not on my priority list

Are you civil?

Like, do you run into him ever?

On… Coincidentally enough, no.

Yeah, okay.

And he lives 500- Do you, did you see him

yesterday?

Yeah, yeah Yeah,

yeah.

Yeah.

Cool.

Okay, cool.

But-

Yeah

… yeah,

so it's, um…

No, but I mean, maybe.

Yeah

Maybe just once in a while.

' Cause you're older now.

You're, like, you look like you, you understand.

Yeah You're probably both sitting in the same situation.

Be like, "Yeah, we're young and naive, and how good's this?" And-

Do you know what, though?

Like, I, I've, I've, I've, I went through a business partnership

breakup, and I probably have no desire- Yeah … to sit down and, and mend that.

I just think we're different people, and I, like, I, I wish him all the best.

Like, but I don't feel like, probably like yourself, it's not-

Do you run into them?

I cross paths every now and then, 'cause

our- And, and you still say hi?

No, I, I, no, only ever in cars.

It's not like- Oh, okay … yeah, yeah.

I, look- Don't beep

the horn

… I, I think if, um, if I, if I saw him, yeah, I'd be like, "Hey,

how's it going?" You know- Yeah … "What's going on?" Have a chat.

Be civil.

But I'd, I wouldn't go out of my way to- Yeah … um-

Yeah, I think it's the same sort of siege.

I wouldn't- Yeah

I don't think I need, I don't feel it necessary in my, you know-

Yeah.

You know, as you get older, I think you protect your time a little bit more- Oh

… about- Yeah … you know, what you wanna be doing with the time that you've got.

Because you've got kids, you've got a business.

You know, you're- So valuable with time

you're influencering people all the time now.

So, so what happened after… So you, that shut up shop, what happened then?

Pretty much the next day I started Hopkins up.

Okay.

Just

like, "All right, let's do this." When was that?

Ooh.

Would've been maybe

' 25,

' 26

Yeah.

2016.

2005,

you mean?

No.

Oh, no, older, but yeah.

So if my young fella was born 28, maybe 2014.

Okay.

Is that about right?

Yeah.

And so you predominantly fo- you're sort of focusing on carpentry, landscaping.

Yeah.

Sorry, external work.

Is that correct?

Is that-

Yes, yes.

Yeah.

For outdoor en- outdoor entertaining and stuff like that.

Yeah.

Yeah, so.

And, and the current, you know, w- you, you've obviously had

people working for you before.

Yeah.

And we were having a chat, um, offline before that right now

you're just sort of more solo and getting subbies and stuff in.

Mm.

Uh, did you have a crew at one point?

Did you-

Yeah.

Well, after, um… So our last business was called Fine Edge Carpentry

and Landscaping, called it FECL.

So once that shut down, I pretty much just went straight out.

So I had my old man work with me.

He's, he's like 70 now, but fit as a fiddle still.

So back then, you know, 10 years ago, he would, I'd get him in.

Yeah.

I'd get a couple of mates in and, um, yeah, we just went ham.

It grew really quickly, and a lot of people were going,

"You're growing too fast."

And I said, "Well, I've made every fuckup you can in business."

Yep.

Like every fork in the road, already I've been down that way.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So I could sort of like navigate myself pretty well through growth.

And, um, yeah, we got it to about, uh, about 10 guys.

Yeah.

And a couple of subbies as well, and it was great.

We had three crews on.

Everyone wor- It was-

Yeah, geez

… really good.

Like really good.

Had some, uh, got a bunch of guys from… Well, my, my first apprentice

back then played at, or still plays at Heathmont Footy, Footy Club.

So we'd, you know, naturally get the guys- Yeah … come through

there and, um, it was awesome.

It w- worked really good and, uh, up until the, the day I shut it down,

like they were surprised 'cause everything was going really well.

Oh, so they were completely shocked.

They thought it was running fine and dandy.

Yeah, it was.

It was, and it was going awesome.

So hang on, this was FECL?

No, this was- Or this was Ant- This was Hopkins.

Yeah, okay.

So- Yeah.

Yeah, okay.

Sorry.

Sorry.

When I shut down Hopkins.

So I'm sorry I'm bouncing around.

No, that's all right.

No, no, no.

Just taking a bit of time out.

So you, so the, so you had FECL and then you started Hopkins Construction.

Yeah.

And now, what are you now?

I'm Hopkins Construction now.

But just- But I went on sort of hiatus.

I got just completely crashed, like just got to the point where I

didn't wanna get up and go to work.

Yeah, okay.

What do, what do you reckon that was?

What, what, what about it

that- That was my mind constantly telling me that I had to be the

first person at work every day.

I had to be the last person to leave.

Like, I had this business that ran, pretty much ran itself.

Yeah.

But- So you

burnt out … I burnt myself completely out of like- Yeah

"All right, I've gotta be there. If the b- boys gotta get there at

4:30 in the morning, I've gotta be there at quarter past 4."

When did the Aus trip come into that?

Just after that

… just a- okay, so yeah.

Okay I was stripped.

What do you

mean by that?

Uh, so I closed up the business and went around Australia.

Yeah.

Just shut.

Just-

What was your, what was your Instagram page again?

Staying Salty.

Stays… That's right.

Yeah.

That's right, yeah.

I remember following it around.

It was awesome.

Yeah.

Yeah.

You guys looked like you had an absolute

ball.

So just who'd you do that just with?

With my wife at the time- Yeah … and the two kids.

Yeah.

Which I didn't see the kids that much, 'cause, you know, set a mentality.

Yeah.

I feel like I can't do as much at home.

I need to work as much as I can to give them the life they

wanna live, and, um, yeah.

Do you wanna talk to me about that for a second?

Yeah, of

course.

Because it's a really… You see, 'cause it's a hard thing.

You're going to work to try give your kids l- every opportunity possible.

Yeah.

But ultimately you're not there.

Yeah.

It-

So how, how did you navigate that, and what realization did

you have to say, "Hey, yeah, have I got this the right way around?"

When I'd have to look after the kids by myself, and they did not want a bar of me.

Wow.

I, I felt like I was a stranger to them.

You know how, like… And, and for me, parenting before I had kids was

the, you know, you go to, like, a, a, sort of a pa- a party, and you're

there, and you say hi to a kid, and they run behind their, their dad's leg

or whatever, and they hold their leg.

And I thought, "That must be the best feeling in the

world, being someone's home."

Yeah.

I would love… That to me, that's what parenting must feel like.

Weird way about it, but that's how I felt.

And, um, yeah, then I'd be at home with the kids, and, like, they wouldn't really

wanna do that to me, and I was like-

And was there a moment, specific moment that you remember that being, "Oh-"

Not really.

It's just, it was just, just in general when I get home- Yeah … and

I'd be like, "I've just worked this huge day f- you know, for you

guys." Pretty much, you know, you get home, you're uber stressed and-

Yeah

… you know, they don't want a bar of you.

And you're thinking like, "I've worked so hard for you today

and they don't give a shit."

Yeah.

No.

They don't care.

They don't understand.

They just want you.

They just want me.

Yeah.

So, and then- Do- do you

know my, my wife, you know, and I'm, and I'm still guilty of this.

You know, I'm, I'm a busy person, and fortunately I've… a lot

of my work's from home now.

Mm. So I, I'm home and I'm looking after Junie, and I'm hanging out with Phoenix.

I'm hanging out with the kids, more so now than when Darcy was growing up.

But, um, yeah, on the weekends I'm trying to finish off this big outdoor area.

And, you know, I said to Lucy, "You know, the kids just don't get it.

You know, I'm doing this for them."

Yeah.

And Lucy's like, "Shit, they don't care."

Yeah.

" They actually don't care about these big grand gestures."

Yeah.

" They actually just wanna spend time with you and play Lego."

Yeah.

They don't care about that area down there they can now kick the footy on.

Mm.

They might at one, at, at some point-

Yeah

… but there's a balance.

And I think that's y- like, you, your story, my story is not uncommon.

Yeah.

Oh,

absolutely.

Like, we're trying to do these things for our kids which we think is what they want.

Yeah.

But all they want is actually five minutes of your time.

Where does that perception come from?

Because I'm sitting now on the opposite side with a younger

family compared to both of you.

Like, because is that something that your parents gave to you that

you thought that you need to give?

Or is it like, I don't think it's a social media thing that people sit and show.

I think it, I actually think-

It's a, it's in you.

It's

individual … I reckon it's in na- I reckon it's something

that's just ingrained in us as men, as providers, as whatever.

Yeah.

That that's what we do.

Yeah.

And I think there's enough signals in the world to suggest that.

Probably it's, it's, it's switching now.

Yeah, yeah.

Definitely switching now, but, like, I'm 43 years old, and from

memory it's always Dad goes to work.

You know, Dad's busy.

Mm. Dad doesn't have as much time to spend with the kids.

Yeah.

And that just becomes like a normal narrative.

Yeah.

Uh, I'm not saying it's right, I'm not saying it's wrong.

No, but it's, it's generally that, like the, the generation and the…

Like our parents.

Yeah.

Like their parents were like, you know, they'd be lucky if the dad was

there for the birth of their kids.

Yes.

We gotta work, and it's okay, like- They were probably always

at the pub.

Yeah.

They weren't even allowed in the room half the time.

Yeah.

Exactly.

So I just think, like, we're not that, we're really not

separated by that much at all.

No.

So it's just that, that mindset, the mentality and, and also of being that

sort of ambitious, like, go-getter attitude what got you to where you are.

Okay, I know what I'm good at, and I'm good at making money.

Mm.

So if I can give these guys comfort in that regard, I'm gonna

work as hard as I can, because I know at home I can't breastfeed.

Yeah.

So I can't get up at 3:00 AM and do this and that.

So, like, all right, I'm gonna bring myself back up to the living

by working as hard as I can.

But it's, it's pushing you away.

But you know, I think once again, you don't realize until- What are,

what are

so- … the effect takes place

… what are some of the things that you're doing now, now that

you've had this experience and realization of maybe what you were

doing before to where you are now?

And I reckon that trip around Oz probably really, you know,

bonded you and the kids together.

Amazing.

Like,

yeah.

Yeah.

Amazing.

And then coming back from that- Um, my wife and I, we split up

about five months after that.

Um, yeah, about f- yeah, four or five months after that, and then- Didn't like

you farting in the car or anything like that?

No, exactly.

It was exactly the reason.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So it's like, we, we got from that, and then it was like, all right, well, I'm

put into a position now where, all right, I wanna have the kids as much as I can.

All right, so I need to change my whole… How am I gonna make it work?

That's when I sort of pushed for more of the sort of cr- content creation space.

Yeah.

Okay, I know that I got nudges at this earlier.

I can make money out of this now.

I need to push to be able to, like, I've got drop-offs now, I've got pick-ups.

What more ways can I spend with the kids?

All right, I'm gonna sign up to coach them in everything I can, and without

pushing, but, um, just changing my whole business to make it work for that.

Because if, you know, I'm not having my kids go to school at,

before school care at 6:00 AM and coming home at 6:00 PM, and-

Yeah

… only person that's gonna change that is me.

So- I

think we- Talk me through a normal day then right now.

Like, what, what… Where, 'cause you, it seems like you got it pretty

dialled in from where you are.

Yeah, yeah.

Um, so I have the kids With coaching, it's probably more than 50% of the time now.

So, uh, every Tuesday, every second Thursday, and then every

second Friday, Saturday, Sunday.

But because I coach them in basketball, I coach them on a Thursday after,

after school, and then I go to the games on a Friday, and then I help out

with Auskick on a Saturday as well.

So most of the time, every weekend it's… So then I'll drop them at

before school care as late as I sort of can on a Tuesday, and all my clients

now are really understanding of the fact that, like, you hire me, this is

a situation.

They probably don't care.

Like, we go back to the child saying about the, talk about building

the area, and they're probably like, "Yeah, we totally get it."

Yeah,

they totally- 'Cause they're usually older as well

… exactly, and I'm very upfront about them, and it's, um, so I drop them there,

get to, get to work as early as I can.

And then the days I don't have the kids, I try and work back- Yeah … to make up for

the hours, which is also tricky too when you've got, say, builders you're working

for, I've got to be the difference of, okay, why would they hire me when I can

get, I've got to rock up at 9:00 on this day, and the next day I've got to leave

00 to pick up the kids, when they can have someone that's there from 7:00 till

4:00?

S- so what is your answer to that?

'Cause it's a really good question.

So I, I guess that comes back to me trying to dial in my craft,

but also dialling in my brand.

Yeah.

So when they- You get me … when I'm there and I'm tagging them in stuff,

it's also- Yeah, yeah … you know, it's, it's putting their name out as well.

So I've got to come at it from different angles of, okay, I've got to be

there, I've got to do the best job.

I've got to, whether I like it or not, I'm the senior guy

on site a lot of the time now.

So in my mind, I'm still 25.

Yeah.

But when you're there, you're getting these guys that are 25 asking you for

advice, whether it's life advice, work.

You try and help them out respectfully, and- I,

I think just t- touching on one thing you didn't talk about before, and sorry to

interrupt- Yeah … was you're setting, setting expectations from the beginning.

Yeah.

Like, if you, like if you- Yeah, boundaries … I, I wouldn't

want… So say I engage you to do a concrete benchtop, right?

Mm-hmm.

If you didn't tell me on Wednesdays and Thursdays you gotta do, like, early and

late, like, you gotta, you gotta come later and, you know, leave early, and

then that just happened, I'd get annoyed.

Yeah.

But if you said, "Hey, Heim, you know what?

On these days, this is what I'm doing.

I'm dropping the kids off at school and I've got to go pick them up in

the afternoon," I'd be like, "Sweet."

Yeah, exactly.

At

what-

Real

simple comm- If you, what do you work, 40 hours on the tools, let's

just say that's the average person?

Mm.

Who cares how you organize it?

As long as the 40 hours gets done and they all get done on time

and due dates to critical paths.

Exactly.

Does anyone really care?

Really?

I don't s- and I don't stop, I don't have lunch.

Like, I'll eat lunch, but I'll just keep working.

Yeah, yeah.

Especially when you're by yourself.

Yeah.

It's very lonely if you sit there for lunch and it's so like- Just

Doomscroll.

Yeah, exact- exactly right.

Which is me, like, why would I stop for half an hour when I can either

work half an hour longer or I can leave half an hour early- Yeah, yeah, totally

and go get the kids or go home.

So yeah, the week's a little bit different now, but, um, yeah, working

around the social media stuff as well.

And you, so you at the moment predominantly subby out to other

builders, or you just- Yeah … because

do you

pick up

your own?

At the moment I do, yeah.

Yeah,

entertainment units outside.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah, so I'm doing that for two builders.

I do sort of on and off when I can.

Yeah.

And then private jobs will come in as well- Yeah … or for

other random builders as well.

But I try to, in my little trial period now of seeing how well the

social stuff can go, and then I don't ever wanna have to pick up a job that

I don't wanna do in the meantime.

Yep.

Um, so like, oh, I've gotta do a house frame or I've gotta go

do this bloody p- paling fence-

Yeah,

yeah … to fill the time.

So And with the stuff I do, because I sort of pigeonhole myself in this

little niche, and have a lot of just the barbecues and feature pieces- Yeah

… they're not coming around every day.

But if a builder calls me, they're at the end of the job, and they're like,

"All right, well, you know, everything blows out, and we've got, we've got two

weeks to do this. I need you in next week," I don't wanna be able to say no.

I wanna always be like- Yeah … "I'm good to go."

So, so this is a good part to move on to the social media side.

So I'm gonna play devil's advocate for two seconds.

Go for it.

So, uh, you come on my site, you're working, but you're

on your phone the whole time.

Because I feel like that's a conversation that isn't had enough.

Obviously, you've earned the respect and time- Yeah … and you have the

experience to know when your phone goes on and when your phone goes off.

Yeah.

Now let's just preface that for young kids and who I'm not talking

a 19-year-old first year apprentice, but- Of course … how do you, how

do you navigate that conversation?

Because h- I feel like it's a tricky one, 'cause I've had someone work in the past

that's do this, and it was like, "Dude, you're on your phone the whole time.

You're not even getting anything done."

Yeah.

How many subbies do you get in that answer 20 phone calls a day?

I don't use subbies anymore.

Yeah.

How many subbies do you

see out there

that- Oh, heaps.

Yeah I don't get any phone calls.

Yeah.

So my time on my phone, I will set it up on a tripod, and I move it from here,

I move it to there, I move it there.

Yeah, you're not, yeah.

Or every now and then I'll throw up a story, but I'm walking to the car

or I'm explaining to someone what I'm doing, and often the clients or

the builders are seeing that too, and it's, it's a, a live update for them.

So I was hoping you were gonna say that And not be like, "I've got five

cameras set up, and I edit it in a day," because I think that's what…

So we've written a social media policy, I have recently, and I don't care what

my team do, but do it after, like, you can record during- Yeah … hours.

I don't care what you do, but don't sit in there on edits and doing your

voiceovers during the time- Yes … or trying to curate your content.

And I think that's what we need to understand that-

Yes

do it outside of those hours if that's your choice.

Yeah.

I don't care you're filming stuff, but-

You're not hired for the social media aspect

… yeah, yeah.

Like-

Yeah.

And like I asked some of my team, like how much they might spend on, he's

like, "Maybe five minutes of recording a day." I'm like, "That's fine." Yeah.

If it's eating into things not getting done, things not getting done right,

and then there's more time spent on social media, one, I'll tell you

because I can see what time you're uploading stuff because if it's the

middle of the day, it's very obvious.

But- Exactly right … I think there's just this generation of people that

think that they sit on their phones all day while they work and nothing gets

done, and I just wanted to have that conversation to explain that like me

and Hayne don't do this during work.

We kinda do, but very different.

But Yeah.

We- we're different roles though.

Yeah, yeah,

yeah.

We- we're different roles.

And do you know what?

Like- Y- your day- Mm … your day and my day- Yeah … are

completely different from day to day.

Yeah.

Like, today we're here for four or five hours.

Mm. And t- yesterday, or m- like, say, last Thursday, I

was in the office at 6:00 AM.

Yeah.

And I, and I punched it through till 4:00.

Yeah.

Did a massive day.

But then on Friday, mate, I reckon I finished at 2:00.

Yeah.

So my day, i- in, in my mind, is so much different to someone that's on site.

You are there from 7:00 until 4:00, and my ex- my expectation

is you're working from 7:00 till

4:00. So I got a question for you, and I'm gonna throw a curveball at you both.

Before we go more to influencing, I just want to go back to this family thing.

So I'm going down to four-day weeks.

Yeah.

And I'm a bit scared about it, because I want to look after

my little one one day a week.

I understand that in the morning before she's up, I will probably

get my emails sorted, day sorted.

Maybe the middle of the day I intend on taking her to meetings.

Do you have any advice for me as both having young families who have

sort of navigated it, on how to a- approach that and set that boundary?

Not advice, but it's, you'd be surprised how you start, and I'm sure you obviously

value your time as it is, but how you will then navigate time before.

It's like before you have kids, everyone's like, "Oh, I'm so busy."

And you're like, "You have no idea how much time you actually have-

Yeah … until you have kids." I'm,

I'm only clicking right now.

Yeah.

So once you cut down to four days, you'll really prioritize the other days.

There'll be lack of waste of time, plus you'll, you'll, you'll end up just

getting so much more done in your days knowing you've got that, and then you'll

start to appreciate home more, and you'll start to appreciate work more.

Yeah.

So I feel like with me now, you're there, you actually enjoy it, 'cause it's, you,

you are switching off for that little bit.

So- But I love work.

Like, I could just work.

Yeah.

Me too.

And that's my problem.

Yeah.

I- I'm terrible at being present.

Yeah, and so am I. And it's something that I am just working on so hard, but

I think what I've set myself, what the goal that I've set myself is, like,

literally just five minutes a day of just dedicated one-on-one with the kids.

Mm. Just, just five minutes.

You can do five minutes.

Uh-

This is why I'm doing the one day a week.

M- Like, this is lit- on, like, the same, I'll be totally transparent here.

It's like I know that sometimes I'm not present, so I'm going, "Well, why can't I

do…" I didn't have any maternity leave.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Like, why can't I do one day a week?

And it might, it might get to 15 weeks and be like, "Nick, I can't actually

do this. I need to do half a day."

And, and I

actually- Exactly.

It's fine.

It's trial and error.

Yeah … I actually think, I actually think it'll change as

well though, and that's okay too.

Like, my, so for me, I've got three kids.

Um, Juniper's 10 months old, similar to Noah.

Yeah.

The, the balance that Lucy and I've got is, fortunately

Lucy can take Juniper to work.

Yeah.

So she works for Nadia at Platylobium Landscape Design.

Yeah.

So Juni- Junie just goes to work, and it's awesome.

But Lucy wants to go to PT on a Wednesday, and I'm like, "Well, I'll

just have her on Wednesday." Yeah.

So for two hours, I turn the treadmill on under the desk- Yeah … and I put

Junie in a, in a, in a little, in a little carrier, and she falls asleep.

Yeah.

Or I take her for a walk up the end of the street, we grab a coffee, and

I walk back, and we just have a chat.

I think that's the hard thing.

My brain has always been told, like, unless you're not actively

doing something, you're not working.

It's, it is hard.

But it's, yeah, you just learn to get used to it, and you just, yeah.

Yeah.

And I, and I know I'll adapt.

I, I just, and I think that it's, we talked about until you have kids, you

don't know how much time there is.

And honestly, I'm seeing all these people, and it is quite overwhelming

watching people at the moment being like, "I'm AI this, AI that."

And I'm like, I'm kind of very happy that didn't come out when I didn't have

a child, because I'd just fucking work.

Yeah.

I'd just sit there and be like, "I'm just gonna keep going with

this." You're so dialed, yeah.

I just would've been… And now I'm like, "Well, something's gotta give, and

right now I'm not gonna go crazy- Yeah

crazy down that path."

Can, I'm just gonna spend one second on AI.

I think that people in the construction industry are- Getting too distracted

with AI right now, when in my opinion, they should be actually focusing

on the fundamentals of business- I 100% agree … first because, like-

In what way though do you mean they're getting distracted

by that?

Well, I, I think that it, like any data, like a- any outputs of something

requires- Mm … really good data.

Yeah.

And if your data is shit, the outputs that AI is giving you is gonna be shit.

Yeah.

Now, I've accidentally realized this because I've just spent the last

eight mo- eight weeks completely systemizing and wrapping process

around our pre-construction phase.

Yeah.

With the view that I was keeping AI at an arm's distance for a second because

I didn't want to get distracted by it

I've actually realised that I was doing it right, that you should do

your data first- Yeah … then you automate it, and then you put AI.

Now, a, a b- buddy of mine has actually clued me into, like, that logical process.

I, I personally feel there's a lot of builders out there and tradies

getting far too distracted with AI.

They're

creating things that they don't even need right now because their business isn't

set up for that, because they see some big brand doing it, so I should that too.

But the issue I see is, like, if you're gonna use AI, use it for marketing.

Don't you need the lead first?

Yeah.

If you can't get the lead, you don't have the job.

D- don't

get me wrong, I think AI is gonna play a massive role, but I think that the,

that the hierarchy needs to be that your house needs to be in order first.

And I'm, I don't profess- Yeah … to be an expert at this at all, 'cause

I, there's still so many things that I need to work on, but I, I think AI is

a bit of a distraction at the moment.

Yeah, it's a good point.

I agree.

What do you

use it for, out of interest?

Because, like, I, I know, I, I know what you do,

but-

To… Right, right now, um, I just use it for just copy

validation and stuff like that.

Yeah.

Uh, maybe if I've got a few reports that I need to, um, summarize.

Yep.

Uh, and I'm using it for a lot of AI summaries- Yeah … um, to

putting it into, like, clear, logical thoughts, but that's it for now.

But I've got big plans to use it, but I realize that I need to get so

many things in, in order first- Yeah

before we start adapting it.

Yeah.

And it's play the long game.

Ch- play chess, not checkers.

' Cause I, my goal is that my site team can actually punch a, you know, question into

a WhatsApp chat that's connected to your Claude agent and be like, "Hey, can you

just give me a little bit more information about how the engineering got to here?"

Yeah.

Now-

Because you started with the data first.

Yeah.

It's,

yes.

Yeah.

And you can't get that unless your data is in a logical form.

Ah.

So anyway, point.

Yeah, let's, let's get ahead.

I've, I've, I, I'm, I don't… Again, I'm not professing to be an expert.

I have just accidentally come across this.

So anyway, don't get distracted by AI, but it's fucking powerful.

All right, back to influencing.

Yeah.

Have you been stopped in the middle of the street and been like, "Oh, I know you"?

So much.

Really?

So… And one of them was the craziest one, um, when I was in, on my trip

around Australia, and I was on Busselton Jetty, which is the longest

jetty in the Southern Hemisphere.

Yeah.

Just at below Perth there.

And I was halfway along it and this bloke goes, "Hoppo." And I was like… And

I'm shocking for, like, faces, names.

I'm shocking.

And I was like, "Yeah, G'day mate. How you going?" Like I thought we've met at a ca-

caravan park along the way or something.

He goes, "Bro, I follow you on Instagram."

And I was like… My missus at the time looks at me and she goes, I'll

never forget it, she goes, "At least you know your marketing's working."

I was like, "Fuck." Yeah, that, yeah.

A, yeah, a lot.

So,

so let's talk about the amount of time you spend on it, because I think

there's this probably idea that you take a few photos, upload them and

done, and that was my original thought on content creation eight years ago.

I now understand it's a lot more than that.

Mm. A serious amount of work.

Yeah, like how many hours do you reckon you spend a week on it?

Um, I'm probably doing, like, minus recording, probably three hours a day-

Wow

… putting stuff together, and that's just because, yeah, all these

other brand stuff I put up as well, like creating ads for them and-

So, so not including the recording?

Not including the recording.

Okay, so the recording kinda just happens organically while you're on site.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Okay, cool.

Yeah, and then I'll pluck bits for that.

But then, yeah, when I get home I'll, you know, for my, like, Toasty

Tuesdays on little pods and stuff now.

Yeah.

And then just the process of setting things up as well, so.

Yeah,

so Toasty Tuesdays, just to anyone that doesn't know, do

you wanna explain what that is?

'Cause I love it.

It's a bit of a little, like, cultural explosion that happened by accident.

Um, working on site in the mud, and I had, like, an old jaffle iron.

Yeah.

I put a photo on my story, and then it just, I just started getting…

Well, now it's hundreds and hundreds of people have sent in

just suggestions of what to cook.

So what's the, what's the, so what's the best suggestion you had and the worst?

Oh, the

worst.

Well, these chairs got me.

Uh, the worst

one was my mate Andy, the Wandering Chippie.

Shout out.

I put a thing out for, like, "I want your kids' suggestions-"

Oh

… " what to make." And, uh, because I put it to a vote, I'll, I'll say, get, I might

get 60 suggestions, and I'll pick one or two, and I'll get my missus to pick the

other ones or my kids pick the other ones.

And, um, then I'll put it to a vote.

So then if it's shit and people go, "What'd you cook that for?" I'm

like, "Well, the people voted." Yeah.

So I've taken all, like, blame off me- Yeah, yeah … and put it on… And their

one was, it was, like, gummy worms- What?

… Nu- Nutella, and it was so- It was fucked.

Like, dry rice.

I was, like, gagging eating this thing.

And I feel bad.

I'm like, "Andy, man, I know your kids suggested this one, but it was the worst

one I've ever had." Um, the best one, I had a Brit nice brisket one recently.

My one I'm uploading today was actually a, um, a chili tuna,

jalapenos, cheddar cheese, and barbecue sauce, and it was unbelievable.

Simple.

Keep it simple.

Simple, yeah.

So,

and what was the one you did with Joel?

'Cause didn't you do the-

Yeah, so- Didn't

you, didn't you do, like, a curry or something?

I'd never met Joel, and he would just… He's obviously a, a passionate man

like myself- Yeah … and about food.

And he's like, he'd hit me up and go like, "Hey, let's catch

up and a- we'll film one."

And I was like, "Yeah, what- whatever, whatever."

Do you go back to basics, like, just, like, a smoked cheddar with, like,

a manchego cheese and then, like a- Yeah, sometimes I'll literally- And

just, like, literally just, like, four different, like, really fancy f- cheeses?

Yeah.

Yeah, see.

Well, sometimes I, like, dumb it right down and I'll do, like, I'm gonna do

a, a baked bean episode this week.

Of, like, just, you know, people get- I literally was just

thinking baked beans there

… and, like.

And it has to be in a jaffle though, yeah?

Well, 'cause I've teamed up with Red Zed now.

It's a sandwich press.

Oh, that's, then this is good.

'Cause I know, 'cause the whole thing was I used to stand on the jaffle

iron, and I used to zip tight or I used to twitch it closed, like wire, like

concrete wire, twitch it closed, um, because I snapped the thing off it.

'Cause people used to suggest these big whoppin' things.

I either have, like, a muddy boot on and stomp on it.

And that was the whole-

Yeah

… thing.

But, uh, it just became a thing, and then companies would message

me, want to do giveaways, you know.

And it was, ended up being, like, it's quite a lot of work.

And now Red Zed, I do it with them.

They pay me each week to do it, so I can sort of justify-

Yeah

… that, and we've got a really good relationship with them.

Is Red Zed, they're, they're the guys that were giving you

the, uh, batteries as well?

The generic ones?

Yeah.

Did you know that?

Red Zed Energy.

No, that's… No, no, so that's… No, the Red Zed are, they're a, um,

they're, they're a bank, but not a bank.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

So they do

loans for the self-employed.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Yeah, yeah.

So it's perfect.

That's it, Red Zed.

That's who I'm thinking of.

Yeah.

Um, so I do it with them now, as well as My Mates on Crates coming up.

But they really… It's funny, 'cause they're this, obviously,

uber professional company, but they-

they've got a bit of a, a twang to 'em, and- Well, I think it

works.

Like, I think you, like, the natural, organic style that you produce

is engaging So why wouldn't they?

The

average person will watch it

Yeah, which, uh, to me it's a bit of imposter syndrome when I get

these companies reach out to me.

It's, I, I'm like

posties.

I'm like a mum Tell me, tell me, tell me about, tell me about the

time that you… Weren't you on

Karl Stefanovic?

I was actually telling Joel about this the other day, yeah Didn't

you, weren't you like, um, uh-

It was for these fingernail things Yeah So I got kinda stitched up in a way.

And I thought of, I had this whole thing of like almost like a fucking fi-

like, you know, and find out sort of, um, attitude of like, "You know what?

Um, shoot your shot." It was my, I even got, like, it tattooed.

"Shoot your shot" was my, like, slogan of last year.

Just go for it.

Like, what have you got to lose?

And it was, um, Phrase Skin, who do, like, skincare for blokes, and they're like,

"Hey, we're gonna fly down from Sydney. We wanna film some stuff with you."

And I was like, "Why not?" You know what?

I, I, I'd look at, like, you know, Adam Sullivan, who does, like, the,

um, evidence-based training- Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah … like

that, and he'd just walk through a supermarket talking to his phone.

I was like, it's always the best content, but I'm terrified to do it.

To the

talking head reel.

Yeah.

They're hard.

Oh, it's-

That's… Like, do you teleprompt?

Like, 'cause you can't, 'cause then you're looking at the screen

and- I, I used to try and do that.

No Now I just, like, I just go with it.

And that's one thing that I really took out of it.

I used to do, like, 50 takes on things.

I'm like, "Oh, I can't say, I can't say this."

And I was like, it's not real.

Yeah Like, I got this over edited thing going.

So you just

one take now and go for it, upload, see how-

Sometimes.

Yeah Sometimes they're pretty ropey.

I reckon they're the, they're the,

they're the be- the best ones, though.

Yeah.

They are Like, when you're just, like, off, you know, shooting

from the hip, just boom, done.

Yeah

Send.

Post.

The worst, the worst about content creation, you think, "Fuck, I've nailed

this one," then no one likes, and then the next day you put up something, you're

like, "Fuck it," and that goes off.

My, my… I actually just recently got my most viral reel, and um, it

took me- Like five minutes to do

Which one was that?

Um, so it was it's actually, it's… Like I can't remember what it says,

but it's in relation to, uh, ADHD.

Yeah, yeah,

yeah.

And it's just me with my, um, a DeWalt chainsaw just like- Oh, yeah.

… working this curve on this arbor, which, like, that's almost

rage-baiting itself, 'cause people tell me it's the wrong thing to do.

Which it worked incredible, so I'm like, "Well, if it works-" Yeah … "what's

wrong with it?" And it, it's like 6 million views or something now.

What?

And just went psycho.

On, on Instagram or on TikTok or?

Oh, I put some stuff on TikTok.

Like I, I went through a stage where I tried to do both.

Yes.

And I was just like, "I just gotta be fucked."

Yeah.

Um, which I should, 'cause it's my, it's my job.