Shownotes
In episode four of Podcaster Stories, I sit down with podcasting veteran Mark Asquith, CEO and co-founder of Rebel Base Media, as well as host of many podcasting shows and resources.
After getting started in podcasting way back in 2013, Mark realized there was a gap in the market for the kinds of tools and services that podcasters were crying out for. This led to the birth of Rebel Base Media and its slew of podcasting services, including podcast host Captivate.fm.
In this week's show, I sit down with Mark to talk about his podcasting journey and where he sees the medium going next.
Topics on the menu include:
- How his love of the DC Universe first got him into podcasting
- Why he thinks like a geek when it comes to his approach to podcasting
- Why he's glad the industry has moved away from tech gobbledegook
- Why podcasters need to buy into the Podcaster's Presence Promise
- Why podcasters shouldn't worry about sponsorship until they're truly ready
- Where he sees Spotify's entry into the podcasting world going
- How his hair metal past saw him appear on the same stage as rock legends Whitesnake
Settle back for an enlightening conversation about someone who's immensely passionate about not just podcasting as a medium, but in helping those who want to be part of it, too.
Connect with Mark:
Contact me: danny@podcasterstories.com
My equipment:
- Rode Podmic
- Focusrite Scarlett Solo 3rd Gen
- TRITON AUDIO Fethead In-Line Microphone Preamp
- Denon DJ HP-1100 Over Ear Headphones
- RockJam MS050 Adjustable Mic Suspension Boom
- Dragonpad Pop Filter
Recommended resources:
This podcast uses the following third-party services for analysis:
Podtrac - https://analytics.podtrac.com/privacy-policy-gdrp
Transcripts
Hi, and welcome to Podcaster Stories. Each of us will
Speaker:have a conversation with podcasters across all mediums and share
Speaker:their story of what motivates them, why they started to
Speaker:show up as a group of show and more, but
Speaker:also talk about the personal lines and some of the
Speaker:things that have happened that made them the person you
Speaker:have to do it. And now here's your host Danny
Speaker:Brown hi guys. And welcome to another episode of Podcaster
Speaker:Stories the show that it talks to the people behind
Speaker:the voices of our favorite podcast. This week, I've got
Speaker:a veritable veteran of the podcast and industry Mark as
Speaker:they ask for it.
Speaker:So ass and quiff, put together, Asquith.
Speaker:Oh, that's an easy one at a minimum. Otherwise you
Speaker:make sure that I got your right now. So might
Speaker:have to be in our own podcast in for a
Speaker:few years, but he's got a lot of podcasts behind
Speaker:them that they can not only runs are as well
Speaker:as the podcast and hoarse and a whole bunch of
Speaker:stuff that will talk about, you know, during the, the,
Speaker:the shore So Mark thanks would be an option. And
Speaker:if you want to him to be just to introduce
Speaker:yourself.
Speaker:Sounds good to me, my man, thank you very much.
Speaker:So I'm CEO and founder with my compatriot Kieran, and
Speaker:I have Rebel Base media where a tech company, we
Speaker:own a, a number of podcasting tech platforms in the
Speaker:space. So we were on Captivate dot FM, which is
Speaker:a hosting analytics and, and distribution platform. We were on
Speaker:podcast website, his podcast, success Academy, and productivity. And we
Speaker:have a podcast recording studio here in the UK, down
Speaker:in Sheffield. Andy, of course, I'm on a podcast too,
Speaker:as well. I think you have produced around at this
Speaker:point around 1200 episodes of their own podcasts since 2013.
Speaker:So yep. Every day I'm on a podcast in is
Speaker:what I do.
Speaker:And I know of one of the podcasts that you
Speaker:have is a spark of Rebel, you know, a star
Speaker:Wars podcast, which is very 70 plus we have to
Speaker:do
Speaker:It is indeed, may the fourth be with, you were
Speaker:recording this on star Wars there, which is pretty bad
Speaker:ass. So, you know,
Speaker:Did that, that's cool. Have you guys got any plans
Speaker:for a special episode or if they haven't come up
Speaker:with a list that you did
Speaker:The Saturday? Actually, it was our, it was our anniversary.
Speaker:We launched on may the fourth of last year with
Speaker:three episodes. So the show is a year old and
Speaker:we just had a little internal lockdown celebration, you know,
Speaker:it goes, and I just shoot the breeze for a
Speaker:little bit, but ah, you know, it was, it was
Speaker:cool, man. It was, it was nice to just do
Speaker:a, do a, an episode ready for may the fourth.
Speaker:So yeah, we just, we just enjoyed it as normal
Speaker:and did our, our, our birthday episode on Saturday all
Speaker:day.
Speaker:Cool. Well, I'll still listen to that later for sure.
Speaker:I'm so like you mentioned, you've got a host of
Speaker:podcast behind you. What was the first one you did
Speaker:and why that topic or buy that podcast and
Speaker:Got into podcast. And so remember this is where before
Speaker:and I had a tech company and podcast and it's
Speaker:where before it was as deep in podcasting as I
Speaker:am now. And this was in 2013, I launched a
Speaker:show with Gus, the same guy that are in, on
Speaker:spark of rebellion with, and that was called two shots
Speaker:to the head, which was a DC comics podcast. And
Speaker:cause we're a big DC funds as well as a
Speaker:big star Wars fund's we launched a show called two
Speaker:shots to the head, which was based on the block
Speaker:that we ran for couple of years are also called
Speaker:two shots a day, which is from a, from a
Speaker:lion in Batman, dark victory is a Line that Harvey
Speaker:dense speaks plus many of the people. And it's it,
Speaker:it was, that was our first foray into podcast in
Speaker:real, really? That was in, I think probably I want
Speaker:to say like mid 2013, maybe early 2013.
Speaker:Yeah. And that we will start a podcast or run
Speaker:on or was that a sunset need to do spark
Speaker:Rebel you mentioned it is with gas for both shows.
Speaker:So we actually, we wound that up. So what happened
Speaker:was I M I was at the time I was
Speaker:running my agency in my design and, and digital agency,
Speaker:and we sat the show up and that kind of,
Speaker:it, it kind of came at a time where I
Speaker:was getting into personal branding myself and started to step
Speaker:away from the agency that I built. And it was
Speaker:going to this weird time for, so we, we gathered
Speaker:and I kinda parted ways. We will always stay at
Speaker:friends and I was always chatted, but I think we
Speaker:did that for about a year. And as I got
Speaker:busier creating podcast websites, which then became a Rebel Base
Speaker:Media and spawned off of a number of products, We,
Speaker:you know, we just partied way as gas went off
Speaker:and did the doctor who podcast the big blue box
Speaker:podcasts, which is still still moved to this day. He
Speaker:still does it till this day.
Speaker:I created a podcast tech and, and, and create that,
Speaker:you know, number of other podcasts, ah, in the space.
Speaker:And then we come back together the last year. So
Speaker:yeah, two shots with a sunset in a while ago,
Speaker:although randomly, we still get sent like loads of swag.
Speaker:So we used to get sent loads of swiped to
Speaker:review in lots of like comics, you know, like pop
Speaker:culture of memorabilia in like invites to comic cons and
Speaker:all sorts of like, I think that only stopped about
Speaker:six months ago, which is pretty sweet. So, you know,
Speaker:you know, it's still reaping the benefits.
Speaker:That's awesome. I mean, I'm a, I'm a geek myself
Speaker:and I love the DC university who gets an a,
Speaker:a, a, a far richer, a universal in the Marvel
Speaker:one, but that's, that's pretty cool that it led to
Speaker:you all of these opportunities and, you know, people and
Speaker:brands reach out to you because I was so that's
Speaker:one of the things that are a lot of podcasts
Speaker:that are asking about how do I get to see
Speaker:a sponsorship and working with Brian's, et cetera. How would
Speaker:you, would you have like any particular advice on how
Speaker:to best approach that for podcasters?
Speaker:So, because you're a geek, I can do it. I
Speaker:can come at this from a different angle, so this
Speaker:is good. And then there's so much advice out there.
Speaker:And it's usually, it's usually given by people who have
Speaker:not done it. So I'm going to come at this
Speaker:from a different perspective and, and use a different example
Speaker:to why I would normally give 'cause you're a geek.
Speaker:So the example that I would give is that look,
Speaker:people are only going to spend money with you. If
Speaker:there were no you like, and trust you, you just
Speaker:marketing one Oh one, you know, is it's basic marketing.
Speaker:But the problem is podcast is don't think like that
Speaker:they think download numbers, AKA sales. So they think as
Speaker:soon as they got some numbers, I can start to
Speaker:sell some stuff and it, it just doesn't work like
Speaker:that. So what we did from where we are from
Speaker:the beginning, we have two shots of the head even
Speaker:was We.
Speaker:We got to know the people and added a lot
Speaker:of value to them and, and really kind of, it
Speaker:would just present all the time. So we would, for
Speaker:example, we're in, in the UK, umm, you know, we
Speaker:got to, for example, got to know a lot of
Speaker:the artists that worked for DC. So I got to
Speaker:know Chula latte who went onto a replay as Greg
Speaker:polo on some of the Batman stuff we were in
Speaker:term of where we just got to Snyder M and
Speaker:she runs a, an event up in Leeds, which is
Speaker:like 10 miles away from it was called the thought
Speaker:bubble. We ended up being pressed at thought bubble interviewed
Speaker:Scott Snyder interviewed a number that you like Tim sail
Speaker:was stood next to me. I like the guy that
Speaker:pretty much inspired Smallville. And it just, it, it, that
Speaker:kind of thing really led to a lot of opportunities
Speaker:for sponsorships.
Speaker:And for a lot of stuff that we do now
Speaker:is a spark, a rebellion. And they all came about
Speaker:through being constantly present. I've just recorded an episode today,
Speaker:actually for my other show though, the podcast accelerate, which
Speaker:comes out on Wednesday about this thing called a Presence
Speaker:Promise where you, you know, you have to Promise to
Speaker:be present for your listeners all the time. So the
Speaker:way to get sponsorship is turned that on its head
Speaker:light, do what we did with two shots of their
Speaker:head and even do what we did when it came
Speaker:to build in the original Rebel Base Media product podcast
Speaker:websites, which was just be ever present at as many
Speaker:things as you can, because people don't really care about
Speaker:the numbers. Once they've got to know you, like they
Speaker:want to know they're going to get a return on
Speaker:what their spending on it, but they're much more willing
Speaker:to understand your audience and work with you.
Speaker:If they're not, are you there? Not just going to
Speaker:look at the numbers and say you are on here.
Speaker:So you've got to be present. Like a lot of
Speaker:people don't do this. A lot of people will pitch
Speaker:sponsors like from day one, the number of people that
Speaker:use Captivate it's a ride, I've got two episodes out.
Speaker:How do I get some money from this? And you're
Speaker:like, what are you kidding? This is mental. So be
Speaker:present, get to as many places you can do what
Speaker:we did. We thought bubble and Chula be around them,
Speaker:you know, just help them, you know, go an offer
Speaker:to do the things, you know, like when we were
Speaker:with chiller a thought, but we do, we offer to
Speaker:volunteer. Do you want to get, will just turn up.
Speaker:We'll bring a mic and we'll just whatever you need
Speaker:to, and we will just do it all right. And
Speaker:it works. It really works. So you got to do
Speaker:that sort of stuff.
Speaker:But the problem is right. As soon as you can
Speaker:record into a microphone, the flip side of that is
Speaker:you can press, play and listen back to yourself. And
Speaker:when you can listen back to yourself, it makes you
Speaker:feel like you're famous. So then you don't want to
Speaker:do the little work and that's the problem. So that's
Speaker:a huge issue. Be willing to do the little work.
Speaker:That's good advice. And that's like the image that you
Speaker:mentioned marketing one Oh one is kind of like network
Speaker:and one-on-one as well, right? When you go to either
Speaker:the industry events or a local business events, et cetera,
Speaker:to grow your own small business. And it's all about
Speaker:networking, have the right people in it. And as you
Speaker:see, offer and value, as opposed to just want us
Speaker:to grab that.
Speaker:Yeah, it is. And it gets, you know, a lot
Speaker:of people get really hung up on that. Yeah. You
Speaker:just show up, like you look at any online entrepreneur,
Speaker:like most people online will say add value. Like, okay,
Speaker:I get that a real, like a guy. I really
Speaker:get that. I really get that. But its to its
Speaker:to macro. So it's like a plumber turning up and
Speaker:saying, well, yeah, I'm a plumber. This is what I
Speaker:do. I've got, I got, you know, I can do
Speaker:plumbing. Well of course he can by virtue of turning
Speaker:up, that's the best level of my expectation late for
Speaker:you to say it, I'm going to add value. That's
Speaker:how I'm going to do things like that. That's the
Speaker:base level. That is not the USP. That's not the
Speaker:standout, that's the base level. But you got to be
Speaker:really creative with this.
Speaker:How can you add value and a creative way or
Speaker:that people are going to remember that's the key and
Speaker:that's the kicker that no one really gets too, is
Speaker:they just do the bare minimum and think they can,
Speaker:you know, they can, there are some, I'll put a
Speaker:tiny bit of sweat equity and equity and, and they
Speaker:can draw from it forever. And it just that's how
Speaker:it works. Yeah.
Speaker:No that's great advice. Completely agree. Now you mentioned that
Speaker:obviously your first podcast is way back, probably 2013. Why
Speaker:find, I mean, podcast is one of those funny things
Speaker:are going to say it's a little bit like blogging.
Speaker:It's always been said that it's going to go away
Speaker:because social media came along and X, Y, Z came
Speaker:along, but it still here and podcast and especially as
Speaker:real as in a resurgence in the last 30, I
Speaker:don't know, a 12 month, maybe a Apple. I think
Speaker:you have a shared recently has just published a 1
Speaker:million for a podcast or something like that. So, and
Speaker:there's a lot of people you'll know yourself by running
Speaker:Captivate DIFM, there's a lot, a lot of people are
Speaker:getting interested in podcast and as a medium, why do
Speaker:you think that since such as a result a surgeon's
Speaker:and you think that it can maintain?
Speaker:I think it's, I think it's the perfect storm really,
Speaker:you know, podcasting has been around for, for a long
Speaker:time, since 2005. And it was one of those things
Speaker:where it was kind of difficult and kind of for
Speaker:the geeks, you know, you know, podcasting had this, this,
Speaker:this perception of, you know, it's for people that want
Speaker:to sit in a basement in the plants talking about
Speaker:loss. Yeah. Cool. It, it is, you know, we are
Speaker:all geeked. I had podcasting started with a niche and
Speaker:really getting tight into that. People genuinely talking about stuff
Speaker:in their pants and what they enjoyed talking about. And
Speaker:that's how it started out. It was a cottage industry,
Speaker:but then a few different things happened, you know, EDU
Speaker:education came along, I'm in the form of Netflix and
Speaker:Uber and Airbnb, you know, everything now he's on demand.
Speaker:And that podcast, it was one of the original on
Speaker:demand media, but no one thought about it like that.
Speaker:Everyone thought it was podcasts. And this is why some
Speaker:of the old guard in podcasting get way too hung
Speaker:up on our RSS feeds like who cares? It was
Speaker:just on demand. AUDIO like stop crying about your RSS
Speaker:feeds. Yes they work. Yes, they do their job. Yes.
Speaker:There are power podcast in, but Holy ground we've got
Speaker:to, we've got to be mindful of what's happening. So
Speaker:this is what's going on is that the industry has
Speaker:been educated. And, and when I say in the industry,
Speaker:I mean the consumers have the audio as much as
Speaker:the creators. So they were educated that they could get
Speaker:content on demand and it was just as good as
Speaker:the BBC. And it was just as good as it
Speaker:was NBC.
Speaker:So that was the first thing, you know, we got
Speaker:educated as consumers by Netflix and by Uber, by Airbnb,
Speaker:but not everything had to be as it was. So
Speaker:that's the first thing that happened. The second thing that
Speaker:happened was internet bandwidth speeds were Nope, which meant we
Speaker:could not only consume information much easier, but we could
Speaker:push information up to the web, much easier. We can
Speaker:stick some in the cloud and now we can put
Speaker:a big AUDIO files up there. And people became used
Speaker:to iPads and iPhones in simplicity. And people started using
Speaker:the concept's that saw on the web apps and on
Speaker:iPads and on I-phones to create software light Captivate that
Speaker:makes it easy to publish or not like a, another
Speaker:set of hosting companies that are really cumbersome and old
Speaker:school. So all of that complexity that people wanted to
Speaker:hold on to, into podcasting because it was their bare
Speaker:butt and it is complex.
Speaker:And where are the experts and where are the only
Speaker:elite cruel that know how to do it? Like all
Speaker:of that is gone because people were more savvy now
Speaker:because interface has been designed too much expectations. So there,
Speaker:there are the big things that had happened. But then
Speaker:of course there were the, the, there were another, a
Speaker:number of things that, that kind of came off the
Speaker:back of house, which was brand dollars, started being piled
Speaker:into it. And with the brand dollars came, the network's
Speaker:like wondering who was then we wanted to make podcasts
Speaker:just to sell. And in order for them to sell,
Speaker:they had to be really, really good. And in order
Speaker:for them to be really, really good, they need an
Speaker:investment. So they became these startups, these businesses. And then
Speaker:the last thing that happened of course, was someone like
Speaker:Spotify got involved where, you know, I've got some, some
Speaker:thoughts on why that might not be a grit thing,
Speaker:but ultimately they managed to really boost the education in
Speaker:the market by saying to people, do you know what,
Speaker:forget that this is called a podcast.
Speaker:This is just audio when you want it on guess,
Speaker:you know, the, the original star Wars AUDIO dramas. Yeah.
Speaker:Well, they're there to look the free, you know, so
Speaker:it becomes, it becomes that kind of set up. So
Speaker:that, that means that's a huge range of reasoning, but
Speaker:that it was the perfect storm, the perfect storm. It
Speaker:was like video when YouTube came about just as bandwidth
Speaker:limits came about, YouTube is not a coincidence that YouTube
Speaker:took it off, you know? So that just happened to
Speaker:get in podcasting.
Speaker:And, and, and that makes me wonder to your point
Speaker:about video, be an easy, obviously you had to do
Speaker:YouTube that, but that was the first time. And you've
Speaker:got the likes of a Vimeo in Viddler where it
Speaker:was more for the creators, but then it will have
Speaker:disappeared. So do you think there's going to be a
Speaker:time when I'm with the amount of podcast companies and
Speaker:host's et cetera, that send me to be explored in.
Speaker:And as you mentioned, there are some that are just
Speaker:in a purely to try and get their, the dollar
Speaker:of revenue back to them. Do you think will be
Speaker:a peak with it or settle down and as it
Speaker:may be just 10 or 12 costs that are left,
Speaker:are you think that there's this room for many, many
Speaker:more?
Speaker:I think that that's actually a two part question. I
Speaker:think there are many that there isn't much room for
Speaker:many other hosts in my view. Uhm, because you can't
Speaker:put, you can't put too much between any of them
Speaker:right now. Like we try really hard to be much
Speaker:different and much better than the other hosts. We achieve
Speaker:that through how we think. But I think the first
Speaker:part of that question is someone like Spotify right now,
Speaker:this is something that I'm going to dig into an
Speaker:a blog post. Like Spotify was one of the biggest,
Speaker:dangerous to podcasts and because the big difference with podcasts
Speaker:and, and other mediums is that podcasting started open and
Speaker:RSS feeds are open, but Spotify in my view wants
Speaker:to close it down. They want to put a wall
Speaker:around it.
Speaker:They want to make it like you to where you
Speaker:create an upload via Spotify or Anker. The problem with
Speaker:that is that video, you know, nothing really existed like
Speaker:YouTube before. Yes. A few of those videos are of
Speaker:immune or a few others like that existed and still
Speaker:exists. But what they don't do is they didn't have
Speaker:any, we have that open industry field like with RSS.
Speaker:And I think this is one of the challenges is
Speaker:that Spotify needs because of the money is spent in
Speaker:podcasting has to go up. How many people listen to
Speaker:podcasts through Spotify and I think they are wanting to
Speaker:put a big wall around podcast. And so they actually,
Speaker:you upload directly to Spotify. You don't need an RSS
Speaker:feed, just upload here with this button.
Speaker:And I think that over the next three to five
Speaker:years, as one of the biggest risks to podcast, and
Speaker:in fact there is an interesting thing with this is
Speaker:you got to consider, you know, we, as a podcast
Speaker:host in platform, we're going to have access to Spotify
Speaker:as a new API. We can get data from Spotify
Speaker:in giving you that we've never been able to get
Speaker:before and on the surface, that looks really, really good,
Speaker:but actually it's like someone put in a dam over
Speaker:a stream or a river in saying, no, this is
Speaker:a good look because we were letting you have with
Speaker:the water, but they've got the ability to turn the
Speaker:tap and to say, actually you can only have this
Speaker:water. You can only have this information on our terms.
Speaker:So I think that becomes a risk. So to answer
Speaker:your question, I don't, I don't think that is the
Speaker:future of podcasts.
Speaker:And what you suggested, you know, is the room for
Speaker:the host where we see a drop it off. No,
Speaker:I don't think it will drop off, but I think
Speaker:the landscape will change. And I think there's a bit
Speaker:of a risk to it. What to actually see happening.
Speaker:This is a bit of a fracture where the end
Speaker:is I wrote a big piece on this a while
Speaker:ago where the end is, will remain as they are
Speaker:and still make the money. How could they do? But
Speaker:their quote unquote bigger podcast is, will go to the
Speaker:other way and they'll work in a slightly different manner.
Speaker:And then somewhere in between, somewhere in between, there will
Speaker:be this YouTube Presence that is Spotify where you can
Speaker:upload directly, but you will and they get there audience.
Speaker:So I think you will become fractured. So over the
Speaker:next three to five years,
Speaker:No, but you're looking for an interesting to look it
Speaker:up and see what happens here for sure. Now just
Speaker:to change it up a little bit, what is something
Speaker:that people that might know, you know, you for your
Speaker:podcast and et cetera, and you, you know, your geek
Speaker:affiliation, et cetera, but what is something that not a
Speaker:lot of people know about you that might have been,
Speaker:I, once I'd put this on the Facebook group there
Speaker:now the other day I want to support at Whitesnake
Speaker:as a, when I was in a band. Yeah. So
Speaker:that was nice that they did that come about. How
Speaker:did they do,
Speaker:Ah, what role did you pitch them? Did, were they
Speaker:looking for the dispute to your manager
Speaker:Or something or yeah, we have this, this promoter called
Speaker:Ronnie who was crap. He, he, for some reason we
Speaker:managed to pull this off. I have no idea how
Speaker:it happened. We were on the young, like 16 and
Speaker:17 and we ended up doing a few of the
Speaker:bits as well that we did some Christmas lights switch
Speaker:on is in big cities where we supported like Beverly
Speaker:and I and Keane. And I'm like the guys that
Speaker:did Agadoo, which was just absolutely hilarious. And he was
Speaker:all down to just promote that. And he was terrible,
Speaker:man. He was terrible, but he managed to pull off
Speaker:like three or four gigs over a four year period
Speaker:that were just decent and Whitesnake, it was one of
Speaker:them, but everything else was awful. I mean, awful,
Speaker:But you know, a fair player on that. That's cool.
Speaker:That is like a, a, a super cool story. I'm
Speaker:like, well, I, as I mentioned at the start of
Speaker:the show, I really appreciate coming on. I know, I
Speaker:mean, I'm with Captivate of them because of the, what
Speaker:the platform offers and I really appreciate learning. And as
Speaker:I started growing and podcast and from your own podcast
Speaker:and the support you give to the guys in the
Speaker:Facebook group, et cetera, and I'm sure the S the
Speaker:sec sort of bring out a lot of value to,
Speaker:you know, people like myself are reasonable, the news to
Speaker:podcast. And then what are they going to take a
Speaker:bit more seriously? So I appreciate your coming on today.
Speaker:Oh, well, thank you for
Speaker:Very much, man. I appreciate all you do for the
Speaker:community and all you do for all of this Media
Speaker:and Captivate in particular. We all appreciate that. So thank
Speaker:you when I, I appreciate everything you do. Yeah.
Speaker:So you're pretty sure that I can say, so this
Speaker:has been another episode of Podcaster Stories. If you enjoyed
Speaker:this week's episode, make sure you subscribe on your favorite
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