Nancy Schlossberg, an expert in the areas of retirement and life transitions, shares a concept that people are often overlooking when they plan for their future—mattering.  

Nancy Schlossberg is not affiliated with Hartford Funds

You know, Julie, when it comes to thinking about retirement and counseling our clients who are facing retirement, there’s a lot of uncertainties out there, and I think we’ve all been taught that retirement is the end of work. But in talking to Nancy Schlossberg, I think you begin to understand that retirement, there’s a lot of work that goes into it. And I think that’s really what I picked up from the conversation we have with Nancy about transitions, especially transitioning into retirement.

Absolutely. It was interesting. We spend our whole life preparing our financial portfolio for retirement. And Nancy really opened my eyes to our psychological portfolio, which I’m very excited to educate our listeners about today, something that I had never put a framework around. And you’re you’re right, there are so many components. And I think for the most successful retirement period, that psychological portfolio really needs to align with the financial portfolio. So it was a fascinating discussion.

You know, when Nancy talks about a business card that tells who we are. And I remember the first time she ever shared this with me and she said, how many times people in retirement refer to what they did prior to retiring, like, I’m a retired physician, I’m a retired accountant, I’m a retired executive. But they’ve never taken the time to really think about, well, that’s what I was. What am I now? I think she offers some great perspective from the other side of our desk. Right. Many times on this podcast, we’re talking with, other financial advisors, and people are challenging our thinking about making our practices better and more efficient. But today we get to hear from someone who is not only professional counselor, and academic in that area, but someone who actually lived what she researched. And I think that’s one of the my favorite things about hearing Doctor Nancy Schlossberg, when she tells us her story. So, Julie, why don’t you tell our audience a little bit about Nancy and why we asked her to be on the Human Centric Investing podcast?

Absolutely. For more than 50 years, Nancy Schlossberg has dedicated herself to helping others to grow and better themselves as a distinguished educator and administrator in the field of counseling psychology for nearly four decades. The leader of a successful consulting firm, the author of ten self-help books, and a renowned speaker, lecturer, and motivator. Upon her retirement as a professor of counseling and personal service within the College of Education at the University of Maryland, College Park, in 1996, after 22 years at the institution, Doctor Schlossberg was honored with the rank of Professor Emerita with a focus on adult transitions. Nancy’s expertise spans various life changes, including geographic moves, returning to school, job loss, divorce, and retirement. Her latest work focuses on retirement transitions. This reflects her mission to guide people through life’s inevitable changes. Despite her significant expertise, Nancy faced her own challenges with transitioning into retirement, which illustrates that anyone can struggle with this transition.

So, Julie, let’s all listen to a conversation we have with Doctor Schlossberg about how to convey to our clients the importance of mattering in retirement.

Hi, I’m John.

And I’m Julie.

We’re the hosts of the Hartford Funds Human Centric Investing podcast.

Every other week, we’re talking with inspiring thought leaders to hear their best ideas for how you can transform your relationships with your clients.

Let’s go.

Nancy, welcome to the Human Centric Investing podcast. We are so excited to have you here with us today.

Listen, I’m delighted to be here.

Nancy, we have, had a relationship for quite a while now, and one of the things that always impressed me about your outlook was a topic I never really thought about much when it comes to retirement, because we’re always focused on the facts and the figures and the financial end of things. But Nancy, you introduced us to a concept called mattering and why that means so much to people, especially in the face of life of retirement. Can you explain to our listeners a little bit about what mattering is? Kind of maybe even how you were introduced to the concept and how you’ve seen it play out in your own life and the lives of those that you’ve interacted with.

You know, it happened one day. I was sitting at my desk at the University of Maryland, and a student came by and said, here’s an article I think would interest you. It was all about adolescent boys and delinquency. That really isn’t my field. But I struggled through this article, and the conclusion of the article was those boys who felt they mattered, who felt they were seen, listened to, acknowledge those boys were less likely to become delinquents. Well, I thought that was interesting. But then I came to the last sentence in this long article in which the author said, I don’t know anything about retirement, but I believe that people in retirement need to matter. Well, it was written by another professor at the University of Maryland. I did not know that professor. I immediately called him, went over and met Marsh Rosenberg, a very delightful man. We joined forces. I brought my students and we worked on retention of adult learners in higher education if they mattered. In other words, if they didn’t matter to the rules, to the policies, to their faculty advisors, they might drop out. They have a good chance of dropping out. He was looking at homelessness and battering and how homeless people no longer feel they matter to anybody. Well, we did go up mattering scales. We did a lot of research. I wrote some papers on mattering. And over the years it kept cropping up. Now I have to say, can I give you a compliment on a podcast?

You can always compliment me, Nancy. That’s right. I’m sure Julie feels the same way.

Well, it’s really remarkable to have met all of you. You’re into financial planning? You’re very. If you want to help your clients make money. And yet you looked at mattering, and you took it very seriously. And you put it together in a way that is understandable. Well, back to what I did with it. I wrote a couple of books on retirement, partly because I was retiring, and so I was very aware of it also because I’m fascinated with transitions and. I thought, well, this was going to be a piece of cake for me. I decided when to retire. I was an expert on transitions, so it was going to be a piece of cake. ROM I really had a very difficult time. I did something that probably wasn’t very smart. My husband and I moved in the same year. We both retired now. Good sense, common sense. So don’t do too many transitions at once. But we did. I expected everybody in Sarasota, Florida. I had been living in Washington, D.C., that they would want me as a consultant. I didn’t want a full time job. No. Guess what they wanted. They wanted me to be on board so I would give them money. I really was very startled by this whole thing, and I began to feel quite irrelevant. And suddenly the mattering became personal. And the way I handle it after really being amazed, startled. I started to study it. I had studied transitions, but I started to do an in-depth study of people in retirement from blue collar workers to high end executives, and I learned a lot. But the basic thing was said just the other day in a group I run by a retired marine, and he said, I no longer feel relevant. So as the Hartford Fund put together this wonderful pamphlet to help people or people, clients, just people who aren’t clients. And they put this booklet together and they call it the freedom paradox. And that’s what it is. You’ve got the freedom. But it’s not all good. It’s good, but not all good. I could go on, John, but maybe let me take a breath and see if you have any reaction and want me to go in another direction.

Well, Nancy, that’s so fascinating. And I think what’s really fascinating is that if the expert was struggling with the transition, and I think that’s what our audience will probably really find so interesting, maybe we could take a minute and have you explore with us. How do you assess how how you matter? Because this is such probably a novel concept for our listeners, right? We maybe think about it, do I matter? I think so, but outside of that, how do you really start to think about that contextually in your life, especially in light of these transitions? Will you share with our listeners some of your thoughts and expertise and research around that, especially as they’re helping their clients on the eve of a retirement transition or any other transition in their life?

Well, I was floundering, and I really have to tell you, I was surprised. I’m a pretty good coper, but I was just not making it. I was not on top of things. And, the more I struggle, the more I get invited to be on board. And at one point I was on three boards simultaneously, and I began to think, this is ridiculous. I don’t want to be on a board. I’m a project person. I want to write books. I’ve got to understand this more. That’s my go to. A strategy when I’m in trouble. I try to learn more. So I started running focus groups. There was a, camp, where people lived. I interviewed people there. I went to a trailer park, interviewed people there. I went to a community center and one of the low income areas in Sarasota, and I interviewed people at the world Bank. So I did a lot of focus groups.

You got the whole gamut there, Nancy.

Trying to understand what people were going through. And the people who were happiest were the people who had found something in their lives that made them feel relevant. And there was I remember one woman saying, they were both, blue collar workers. And before they retired, they lived by postage. They were on one was, a day shift. One was on a night shift. So they would leave post-its for each other. Now they were retired and they were living in a trailer park, and they could see each other during the day. And they the girls would go shopping in the mall. The guys would go fishing. They were happy. They felt that finally their life was fulfilled. They felt they mattered to each other for the first time in years. The people, different people had different ways of discussing it. I remember, by the way, soon after I retired, somebody in the press called me up to interview me about a project I’d been working on and that the project had to do with grandparents raising grandchildren. And they. They called me to quote me, and I had just retired and they said, well, how should we identify you? Do you know that I struggled? Well, what could I say? Who am I? How could I possibly tell them how to identify me? I was no longer professor. University of Maryland. So who was I? And I struggled with that. And I remember I was actually stammering on the phone because I didn’t know what to say. And I said, well, well, I’m a consultant or something. And that’s when I realized I had to do something about it. Nobody was going to make my retirement a piece of cake. I had to do it. And that’s when I started inventing the nattering recipe. What do you have to do if you’re no longer mattering? Are you just going to sit in the back seat and sit and cry? No, you have to do something. And so that’s how my interviews made me feel. I was beginning to learn something, and then I would write about it. And then the book, Revitalizing Retirement, which is the book that you all took and did the mattering from the conceptual framework for the book was mattering. If you feel you matter in retirement, you will be happy. If you do not feel you matter. There are things that you can do. To make yourself feel you better.

So, Nancy, I want to ask you a question about. I’d like to ask you about something you just stated because, as you know, the people that listen to our podcast are financial or are primarily financial professionals. They’re the people giving advice to their clients about how to manage portfolios, how to succeed financially in retirement. But one thing I heard you say that I think it’s important to emphasize, and I wanted to ask you about this. Did it matter in the focus groups that you did, whether somebody would have been maybe defined as high net worth or very affluent versus people at the lower end of the financial spectrum? Did the topic of mattering matter? Because I think sometimes from financial advisors approach a very wealthy client, we just look through a filter of saying, hey, this person or this couple, they’re professionals, they’ve got a large amount of assets, they’ve got it all together. So all I need to do is pay attention to helping them on the financial side. But I think what I heard you say is that wealth didn’t matter in terms of the psychological needs that we have. Am I correct in saying that?

Absolutely. I was interviewing a man who was the CFO, CFO of a major fortune 100 company. He had retired. His pension alone was $1 million. Plus he had other holdings, he said. We were sitting at a table and suddenly he went like this. And you pounded the table. He said, that’s forward retirement for me is hollow. And he had a secretary. He had an office. He had all the money in the world. But to him, retirement was hollow. He said, I can no longer make the things happen. That I had made happen. I no longer have the influence that I had. People don’t listen to me in the same way. And I thought, my gosh, isn’t that. Isn’t that something? This man that I thought had it all together really doesn’t. Then there was a man who was the head of dining services at a retirement community. He couldn’t wait to retire. Freedom. Freedom. And he did. And he actually retired. And we everybody missed him. They liked him after a year. His job was still open. And they offered it back to him. He jumped at it and he came back. He told me that he and his wife had traveled. And then at the end of the year, they had gone on enough vacations to spend all the money they had set aside for travel. And there they were at the end of the year, and he still didn’t know who he was. In retirement. He had no purpose. He had no identity. And he couldn’t wait to get back to work. Now, has he learned anything from this experience? I’m dying to show him this, this workbook that Harper put together and that. John, we need to talk about how I can use that. But I want him to see this because he’s working this year. This is his chance to figure out how he will matter when he retires. But I don’t care whether you’re rich or poor, young or old. Mattering is so important. If it makes you feel. Like you still can’t. And people need to count. I didn’t feel I counted when people wanted money on a board. I do feel I count when I write a book that can help people. I feel the fact that Hartford took this book Revitalizing Retirement and turned it in to the most imaginative workbook. That’s simple. That’s clear. And that will help people. We’ll help anybody who looks at it figure out what’s next and how to create a life, a path where you will feel productive and where you will feel you matter.

Nancy, we’ve touched on, you know, having an identity and purpose. Could we talk a little bit about the importance of relationships in one’s life and mattering? Obviously social connection, social engagement. You know, we all read about how important that is in how important people are to people. Will you share with us your thoughts on how to evaluate your friendships? How do you understand? You know who’s closest to you? Who’s a more casual relationship in your life? I think that can be kind of difficult as you change jobs and you retire, and you think about those that maybe were very close coworkers versus family versus friends, neighbors, you know, all of those relationships as they change. Will you share your thoughts and expertise on that with our listeners?

Well, when I started to really get into mattering the question, the next question is, yeah, mattering is important, but how do we what do we do to make ourselves feel we matter? Financial planners help people figure out whether they can afford the life they’ve been living, or that they plan to live. But there’s something other than your financial portfolio. And I call it your psychological portfolio. These are the things that you need to look at and to balance, just as you need to balance your assets in your financial portfolio. So what is in your psychological portfolio? First. Remember I told you about how I felt when the reporter called me and I didn’t know how to identify myself, and for years at first. Well, let me back up. At the University of Maryland, when I left, I had a card that they gave me that was filled, filled, filled with all kinds of titles and things. Then I retire and I figured, well, I better get a card. But I had nothing to put on the card. I’ve no idea where I put my name, my email, and I had a website, actually, and those are the three things I’d put on, but it was pretty empty. And over the years, as my life changed and evolved and as I mattered more, my card changed with more and more things. And now. And my age and stage of life. I don’t even need a card anymore. So it’s really been very interesting. But the card kind of reflects your identity, who you are. Aside from the job that you had. But there’s more than just your identity. Very related to your identity is your purpose. What drives you? What gives you the motivation to get out of bed in the morning? What? What is your purpose in life? As one woman said to me, I used to work for companies helping them design their purpose. Now I have to define a purpose for myself. So developing a purpose is very tied to your identity. Once you have your purpose, you know who what to put on your car. So you got your identity, your purpose, and then your relationships. I’ll tell you a funny story. I was giving a speech at a university. My husband happened to come with me because he was consulting with a particular group at that same university. So it was very unusual that we would be there together. But the day of my speech, he came over to listen to the speech. No one in the audience knew it was my husband sitting in the front row, and I gave my speech on retirement. The book we finalized in retirement was published. I talked about it. And then during the Q&A, somebody said, well, how did this affect your relationship with your husband? And I said, well, it’s been hideous. And I burst out laughing. I said, my husband is sitting in the front row so I can tell you the story. When I first retired. Every time I went out, Steve said, where are you going? So what do you mean where am I going? I had worked all along as I raise children. Nobody ever asked me where I was going. I went where I was going. Suddenly I have a supervisor. I couldn’t believe it. So it took me a while to adjust to a new way of having, being married. I now reported I got to like that. I had to report where I was going, but at first it was startling. And then I was doing a workshop on retirement and a woman. So I feel so guilty because now that I’m retired, my daughter thinks I can come up to Wisconsin and babysit every time they want to go away. She wants me as a babysitter. I don’t want that is my purpose. So getting together your portfolio relates to your relationships. As one person said, I don’t. Who retired. I don’t miss work. I miss the people. And your relationships are renegotiated with those you live with, with those you relate to. It does change. So there’s a lot that goes on when you retire with your psychological. So if you can get your psychological portfolio in good shape and your financial portfolio, you’re in a good place. I don’t know if I’ve answered your question, but I’m ready for more questions.

Well, Nancy, I have one final question for this podcast, session that we’re we’re recording and it’s this if I’m a financial professional that really cares more about my clients than just the financial outlook, I feel I care about how they’re doing. I care about how they’re enjoying their life. Now that it’s changed pretty dramatically from when they were working in accumulating wealth, we talked about the psychological portfolio just a moment ago. We talked about mattering. I’m sure many of the financial professionals wish that Nancy were sitting right in the chair next to them as they were talking to their clients about these topics. But, Nancy, if it’s just me and my clients and I value what you said, what do you think are 1 or 2 really important things that I, as a financial advisor, could do to encourage my clients in finding their identity, purpose, and maybe building the relationships around them? How can I participate and help them?

That’s a good question, because this man that I showed this to who said, this speaks to me, but what do I do about it? Well, I don’t mean to seem self-serving. First, I would read this book, but that’s really not the answer to life, I have to admit. Because in the book and in your workbook, I talk about the fact that the individual who no longer feels he or she matters. Has got to do something about it. Him or herself. You have to take control. You have to say. What can I do? Now, I talk in the book, and you have it in the workbook about the paths that you might take in retirement. You’ve worked. You’ve been invested in your work. And now what? So there are six possible pairs. And I think the reason I mentioned reading the book or getting the workbook is that you can look at the different paths that people have taken and think about which path do I see myself going on? Am I going to be a continuar? No, I’m a continuar. I no longer am a faculty member. I don’t want to be a faculty member, but I’m still working in the area of transitions, adult development and aging. So I am continuing, but in a modified form. But then there are something all of us will be. We will be searchers. One of the best things that I think you can do when you’re not sure what you want to do. Is to identify this period of searching as a positive, as a fun experience that where you can go around and meet people who are doing things that you think are interesting, that you can be exploring and just give yourself six months a year to do it. And the fact that your curiosity and your energy is going to be harnessed on your behalf is very good. Can be very helpful. So we’ve got, continuous. Then we’ve got easy gliders. I’ll never forget a focus group I did, and a man was in the focus group who had been a AP reporter, a science AP reporter, and I was asking what this group of baby boomers were thinking about in terms of retirement. He said. Oh, I meant into sloth. I said what you said. I meant just law. I’ve worked hard all my life. And somebody else said. I just don’t want an agenda. I want each day to unfold. So easy. Gliders. I wish I were an easy guide or job. Then I could just sit back and relax and not worry about the next project. But I’m not. But the easy gliders really are enjoying and taking each day as it comes. Then you’ve got adventurers. That doesn’t mean you’re going to climb the biggest mountain in the world. It means you’re going to do something you’ve always wanted to do but never had a chance to do. You’re going to adventure into a new arena, and that gives you a chance as a searcher. To look at different people doing things that look appealing to you. Maybe even looking at your regrets. What do you wish you had done then? Interviewing somebody who’s doing doing that and getting ideas? Also, I’m a great believer in setting up an internship for yourself where you identify an organization doing things that you believe in and saying that you want to work for them as a volunteer for three months as a volunteer slash intern, or work at or. And explore that way. Then there are involved spectators. I have a lot of people who have been in politics and no longer can walk the halls of Congress. Watch the news. They become news junkies. They they want to just. Be involved, but as a spectator. When I mentioned that at a workshop once, the person said to me, a person said, now I know what to put on my card involved spectator. Last but not least, are we treaters? There are two kinds. They’re the kind that become couch potatoes, but they’re the car. And the other kind who say, I’m taking a moratorium. I’m taking time out just to think, to amuse, to consider. So what I’m suggesting is that you look at these pairs, see where you might fit. Knowing the path you pick is not forever. You can change paths. You can combine paths. It gives you a sense you’re in control. You’re the one who has to do something about not mattering. I do want to add one thing. Not only do you need to feel you matter, but you need to make other people feel they matter. There was a man high up in the government. And he got a wonderful report from one of his key staff. He called the staff person in and he said, this is a wonderful memo. But a lot of people helped you along the way. She said. Yes, he said, take the memo back, put their names in it. Identify them. Show them that what they did, it matters. So not only do we have the job of making our show slightly matter, but we also are in a position often to make others feel they matter and that will make a difference.

I saw Nancy. Nancy, if I could summarize kind of what you were talking about, what those paths may be as a financial professional. One of the first things I might try to do is try to establish in my own mind what type of path my client is following, or expresses a desire to follow. And then maybe in whatever way I can encourage them to do that. Whether it’s accepting invitations, whether it is, you know, just trying to establish the next step. But I think it’s a very good suggestion and maybe trying to figure out within those paths how not only they can matter to others, but how others can matter to them at Giuliani. Any final thoughts?

No, I just think I’m so inspired by that. And I think you’re right. It’s not only reflecting on ourselves, but how can we give back to others and sort of give them that gift of mattering? And I think that’s just such a great way to end this conversation.

Thank you.

Because it’s the Human Centric Investing podcast. We have a special segment that we love to do. It’s called The Lightning Round. And if you’re willing, Nancy, we would love to ask you questions about you to get to know you, the human, a little bit better. So if you’re willing to, have us ask you just some questions and whatever answers are top of mind, we’d love to roll into our lightning round with you at this point.

Okay.

Nancy? Nancy? Are you. No. We’re still recording. This is to share with the world.

Yes it is. This is still part of that podcast, not the other. Oh, yeah.

Oh, that is correct. Right. So my first question, Nancy, is are you a morning person or are you a night owl?

Morning.

Morning, person.

On a scale of 1 to 10, how good of a driver are you?

What? How good a.

1 to 10. How good of a driver are you?

Have you been in the car? Yes. I’m a good driver. I try not to drive at night. But my partner is a good driver at night. But I drive all the time, all over during the day, and I can drive at night, but I just think it’s. I love that.

Nancy, what did you want to be when you grew up as a child? What did you always want to be?

You know, if you would interviewed me when I was in college. The furthest thing from my, if you would, said to me, you know, someday you’re going to write ten books, you’re going to love this and that. And the other I would have said, that’s crazy. I’m not even interested in in academic things. So. Oh, I knew John, but I did know something. Was that I didn’t want the life that my parents lived and that all of my friends were going to have. And I’ll tell you a true story, I don’t know. This is before Betty Friedan, and I don’t know. How I knew this, but I was a senior in college. I was very popular. Having a good time. Not at all intellectual. And I was stating to them. One who lived in my hometown and one who lived in New York City. And I thought, if I marry the man in my hometown. I could have had this picture. How come? Home from work. I’ll be in the kitchen with an apron. He’ll want to know about the kids and what’s for dinner. And I thought, I can’t have that life. Cannot have that life if I go to New York with Mike. I don’t know what I’ll do, but I’m not going to be in the kitchen. And I married Mike. We were married for ten years. You said such a nice man that when we got divorced, at my suggestion, he still did my income tax, so it was nothing toxic. And then two years later, I met Steve and we were married for 50 years. Wow. When I said to Steve, you know, maybe I better resign. I was assistant loving professor then at Wayne State. I can’t handle. The house, the kids preparing for class, and Steve, who was a politically key player at that point, meeting with the president of the United States. I mean, he had a really important job. He had the craziest notion that my life was as important as his. He said, you cannot quit. If you quit, you’ll be in and out of the labor market and you will never have a career. First of all, you’re not that good a housekeeper. So take that off the plate and. Okay. And he said, we’re in this together and we’ll figure it out. And honestly, that plus my vision of wanting a life and and I remember saying when I first met Steve, what do you think of women who don’t cook clean or so. And he said, what do I care what a woman does? But and so I married a feminist and I had these urgings to to do something with my life. The president of Barnard College, where I went to college. Now, I wasn’t a student leader then, so I never met her, but she was married to a physician and. Had 5 or 4 or five children and still. Had a career and she told us we could do it all. This is I graduated from college in 1951, and at that same 51, Adlai Stevenson gave the convention the commencement address at Smith College, telling them, now you can be community leaders, you can help your husband. You can live life like that. I made a choice to have an independent life, to be my own person. I happened to pick two husbands who were supportive of that, and I don’t know where I got my ideas from because nobody else was doing it the way I was going at them. They all are now. So that’s my story. I’m sticking to it. I love you.

Nancy. Would you rather travel to the past or to the future?

What?

Would you rather travel to the past or to the future?

Well to the future, of course. I mean, it’s nice to think about the past. And one of the things we’re going to talk about with the aging rebels, the group I co-lead at the Senior Friendship Center. We’re talking about nostalgia next week, and it’s nice to think about the past. But what matters is the future. And what matters is how you handle as your life changes. I’m no old. Chronologically old. And I can’t do all the things I did when I 40 years ago. So you focus on what you can do, not what you can’t do. You. You focus. How are you? Can still be of use to the world. Not. Oh, my God, the world isn’t helping me out. So you have to keep. I’m lucky. I’m an optimist. And and I do look to the future.

Nancy, my last question. What age do you think is the best age to be?

Well, I have to tell you something there. I don’t know that I can do that. It was wonderful when we were raising children and had a busy household, and my career was blossoming. But. Oh, but my my life right now, I have a wonderful partner who also is a feminist and drives at night. My children are my collaborators. They they’re there during this period of my life. Sort of the last moment. My last period of life. I’ve got wonderful support. I have enough energy to still want to be doing things that make a difference.

And so it sounds like all of them are your favorite ages.

It does. I was going to say the same thing.

So I don’t I’m not looking I’m not looking forward and hoping that I can skip decrepit old age. I don’t I’m not fucking forward to that. But I think you always. I’ll tell you one last story that inspired me. I met a man on a committee. When I first moved to Sarasota. And. He took me to his retirement community, had me give a speech, showed me his apartment. Along the wall of his apartment were pictures of him with a president of the United States and the president’s family. The room was tiny, but he had all these pictures. And I remember saying, you really had quite a life. You were a player. How do you handle that now? So he’s sitting in this chair. He said, look out my window. He said every day I would see staff jumping over the hedge to get to the cafeteria in time for lunch. And I realized they were one of them for one day. So I went to the head of the retirement community and suggested putting a path in, and they did that. He said, well, that’s not a big deal. But no matter how old you are, you can still make a difference.

Well, I think that is a wonderful place to end. Nancy, we can’t thank you enough for joining us today on our Human Centric Investing podcast. And for our listeners who would like more information on Nancy’s work, including a list of all of her books and articles. Feel free to visit her website at Transitions Through life.com. Thank you again, Nancy for your time today and sharing all of your expertise.

Thank you.

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The views and opinions expressed herein are those of the guest who is not affiliated with Hartford Funds.