In today's episode of Women in the Coaching Arena, host Jo Lott welcomes special guest Teresa Wilson, a Coach and Shadow Work Specialist. Together, they explore the transformative power of shadow work. If you're a coach who struggles with self-judgment, constantly labeling your sessions as "good" or "bad," or feeling stuck in repetitive patterns, this episode provides invaluable insights for both personal and professional growth.

Episode Timestamps

[00:02:00] - Teresa's Coaching Journey

[00:03:00] - Understanding Shadow Work

[00:06:00] - Balancing Authentic Self and Social Expectations

[00:08:00] - Shadow Work in Coaching Practice

[00:14:00] - The Role of Self-Compassion

[00:22:00] - The 4P Model for Coaches

[00:39:00] - Transformational Potential of Shadow Work

[00:42:00] - Teresa's Retreat and Learning Opportunities

Key Quote:

"Shadow material wants our attention. We can feel its impact in an unpleasant way, but when we know how to harness it, that energy becomes available to us."

If you want to dive deeper into Teresa’s work, she has some incredible shadow work retreats coming up. Check out the details at  https://www.teresawilsoncoaching.com/

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Hello and welcome to Women in the Coaching arena podcast.

I'm so glad you're here.

I'm Jo Lott, a business mentor and ICF accredited coach and I help coaches to build brilliant businesses.

I know that when you prepare to enter the arena there is fear, self doubt, comparison, anxiety, uncertainty.

You can tend to armor up and protect yourself from vulnerability.

In this podcast I'll be sharing honest, not hype, practical and emotional tools to support you to make the difference that you're here for dare greatly you belong in this arena.

Hello, welcome to episode 107 of Women in the Coaching Arena.

I am so glad you are here today.

I'm really excited to have Teresa Wilson on the podcast.

She has the most wonderful grounding energy I think I've ever been in the presence of.

So I hope you really enjoy the conversation.

Teresa works with shadow work for coaches, so if you are the type of person who ends your coaching session saying either that was a great session or that was a bad session, then you will gain so much from this conversation.

Teresa is on a mission to help you to be kinder to yourself in your coaching practice and in your business and your life as well.

So I really hope you enjoy today's conversation.

It was super fun to explore some of these ideas with Teresa live and I know you will gain so much depth and you will feel so grounded and wonderful after this conversation.

Hi Theresa, thank you so much for joining me on the podcast.

I'm so excited to have this conversation because I'm really curious about the topic, so I know my listeners will be as well.

Please share a bit about yourself and what you do.

So first of all, thank you for having me.

I'm absolutely delighted to have the chance to waffle on about a subject that I'm really passionate about.

I've been a coach for around 12 years, various associate roles over that time, but I always knew there was something I wanted to do for myself too.

It's been like sitting on an egg for 12 years waiting for something to hatch and then eventually the thing that did hatch started for me personally and then became the thing that I do professionally, which is a fascination for shadow work.

It had impact for me professionally and because of that I now offer kind of the how tos of shadow work to other coaches.

That's a little bit about me and what I do.

It's super interesting and I've heard you talk about this so many times, so I cannot wait to dig into.

Firstly, what is shadow work?

The term shadow is attributed to Jung and he was Saying that when it comes to how we form an identity, we're born whole.

And I sometimes think that when you look at babies, they have no concept of needing to regulate for themselves.

They simply are in the fullness of themselves, which means they can be pretty appalling.

They don't have manners because they've not been socialized yet.

So they might grab and spit and scream and snarl and they poop and put their hands in their poop.

And as adults, we coo at them and make kind faces at them as they do this initially.

Then there comes a point when we kind of have to be socialized because we cannot go to school and go into the working world screaming and kicking and slapping and putting our hands in our poop.

It's just frowned upon.

JO so we have to be socialized.

And that starts within the family unit and then continues as we go out and make little kid friends at school.

We learn the rules of the playground and the rules of the classroom.

As part of that socialization process.

We're essentially learning our need to belong is so hardwired in it matters as well.

So we're learning that to belong in this family or this gender or this school, whatever it is, this friendship group, turns out that there are certain things about me that are acceptable.

And then apparently, there are these other things that I do that they don't like that are frowned upon.

And that content can become disowned, disallowed, and it can become held in our unconscious.

This is what Jung says is how we go about forming an identity.

We have the Persona that we lead with.

And I'm happy for you to see and say, oh, yes, that's Teresa.

She's nice and kind and sweet and friendly and warm.

But then all the other stuff that is still part of me but that I carry around behind me, like the shadow that I can't see.

That shadow material contains the other stuff where I might be mean or spiteful, greedy or ambitious or creative.

I'm wondering, where's the line between what we are allowed to be and our authentic self?

How do we find that balance between the bits that could have been let out?

Because I guess it must depend on how strict your parents were and all sorts of things.

How do we find that balance that gets us back to our authentic self?

I love that you use the word balance.

One of the guiding principles, in a sense, is that we are part of nature, and nature operates on a kind of homeostatic principle.

We know night because of day.

We know hot because of cold.

There's a biological imperative towards balance, if you like.

And so that's one way that we can start to discern what's missing.

If I'm only ever X, then I can get curious about, well, what balances that, what might be missing for me.

And it's not to say that when we work with shadow and invite these qualities back in, it's not that we're going to become them all the time.

It's not that we're going to become dreadful people with no self control, no choice, no free will.

But your word balance is a beautiful one.

It's there if we need it.

Often as a coach, you know, I work with people around the language of increasing your range, so just knowing that it's there can be incredibly helpful.

So not that I become it, but that I have access to it.

It reminds me of the emotions wheel.

No emotion is bad because sometimes we need anger or fear or whatever the emotion might be.

So it's like that radar of how can we crank it up or down as needed.

I often use this example and it might be a bit triggering, but it holds a lot of truth for me.

As a young woman, I was at risk a lot of the time because I didn't have access to some of the gnarlier, snarliest stuff that I really could have done with.

To say, no, piss off, back off, that's not welcome.

And instead I would smile.

And that can leave a person incredibly vulnerable.

Being mean and rude or aggressive has its place.

Absolutely.

Gosh, yes.

As an absolute people pleaser.

It's exhausting putting everybody else's needs first and it's taking so much practice, like, usually unsuccessfully.

I clearly need to sign you up, Teresa.

Get rid of the shadow or bring it back in to overcome the practice of no worries, I can do that for you, even though I actually can't back to back.

So I hear you totally.

If we're thinking about coaches in particular, how can we use this either in our business or in our practice?

Maybe both.

Absolutely both.

Yeah, absolutely both.

I think for me it started off as a personal development journey, but as coaches, we are the instrument, so it's pretty hard to compartmentalize our humanity from our practice, certainly for me, anyway.

And I think what I started to discover is the things that I was learning about shadow and kind of applying to my personal life was really, really helpful in the coaching room.

And I'm someone whose inner critic is overworked, you know, an incredibly efficient critic.

It turns up all the time.

It's there with a Clipboard.

It's always got something to say.

I mean, it's running the go damn show, you know?

And so when I started coaching, I'd honestly say on and off for the first.

Throughout the first 10 years, there were times that I almost quit.

I just thought, this isn't for me.

I can't take it.

Because that critic would just be hovering on my shoulder.

I'd get to the end of the session, and essentially my choices were good or bad.

Was that a good session or a bad session?

Were you a good coach?

Bad coach, good person, bad person.

And then shame would come and punch me in the guts.

It was brutal at times, and there was a real lack of nuance within that kind of appraisal system.

You know, critic, good, bad, brutal.

And so shadow work was a way for me to start to bring some nuance in and get really curious about what more was going on in that session.

How else might I.

Language.

What was going on in that dynamic?

What was going on for me internally?

Where was I taken to?

What did I not have access to?

Oh, interesting.

Like, suddenly there are these threads and strands where my curiosity could really come alive.

And then that really enhanced my supervision relationship.

Because, of course, previously I would take a lot of shame into my supervision.

Shame is so sticky and nasty.

It doesn't want to be seen.

So, you know, it would kind of get in the way of supervision.

It would be so hard to speak my vulnerabilities about my practice.

Whereas with this shadow work approach and a depth and richness of language, I really let my shoulders dropped, critic buckered off, and I could really start to enjoy the sense of growing, learning, developing, presencing.

So my sense of presence has been impacted a hundredfold.

I just show up differently.

I enjoy my coaching so much more now in these more recent years.

And so that's what I'm passionate about, bringing shadow work to other coaches just for that.

That experience of being able to be available through your presence with another human.

I'm so passionate about that.

The business side, you know, we often say that the ego can handle things.

When things are going well, we have our Persona and we can just kind of.

When things are going well, we run along nicely.

It's when things get tricky, that's often when the shadow material is stirred.

You will know this better than most.

How many coaches struggle with the business side?

They might love the coaching, but so much is asked when it comes to the visibility aspect, that sense of exposure, being seen, all of that can trigger shadows, self expression, creativity, putting your mark on the world.

Again, incredibly challenging and exposing.

For so many of us, running a business is rich and fertile ground for shadow, which if you know how to speak the language of shadow, becomes an incredible opportunity to turn all of that ick.

It's hard that cringe and challenge into something really resourcing.

The shadow is a source of energy.

It wants our attention.

We can feel its impact in an unpleasant way, cringe, turning away from ick.

But when we know how to harness it, that energy becomes available to us.

I hear from other coaches that they're just suddenly able to take more risk.

It's like there's more flow.

Once you start to kind of integrate.

Some of that challenge, I really resonate with the good or bad, especially when I first started my business.

Think that was a good session, that that was a disaster.

And then I'll find it really interesting when people share in the slack group.

Great session yesterday.

I'm like, no, no.

I've already branded that as a terrible session.

What are you even saying?

So many of us will resonate with that judgment of black and white thinking all the time.

I love the idea of inviting in more nuance and being curious, which I find really hard to do.

So tell me more, how do we actually do this?

One thing that I found is that the Cottonian kind of go hand in hand with shadow work.

And when I work with coaches, it's the beginning in the middle and the end is to bring in compassion.

So, and I'm doing a hand in hand, you know, for me, they go hand in hand.

When we turn to shadow, we think about how shadow material is created.

It's these disowned parts, disowned qualities or aspects of ourselves.

Often they get put into shadow with some emotional stamp, if you like.

There can be some shame, some humiliation, some hurt.

So bringing that stuff back in inevitably means they're frozen in time.

Energetically, they're frozen in time.

We continue to live in linear time.

We have a life, we have jobs, we have relationships.

But these wounds, these hurts are kind of timestamped from when they were in.

So they want to be reintegrated.

Part of what we're saying yes to, you know, I am willing, it's a yes, I am willing to re experience what that's holding might be holding grief, might be holding shame, it might be holding anger.

And so how do we prepare the ground to work with that stuff when it comes back in for me?

Compassion.

So having some self compassion practices first of all enable us to stay present with ourselves alongside that material.

Because otherwise there's the danger that the material can flood us and we can become identified with it and re experience it.

And it's much harder for us to process it when it's just all over us like a sticky, icky mess.

I've heard people say that trauma is stored in the body, and I've heard it so many times, but I've always secretly thought, what does that mean?

Tell me more.

Yeah, the body keeps the score that there's an energetic resonance.

How do we know we're experiencing anything in, you know, we're energetic beings in our culture.

We prioritize the left brain and we think that, you know, kind of our meaning making the way that we language things is king.

And yet, of course, that's the last thing that's interesting.

Thoughts sit on top of feelings.

And then there's emotional vibrations, that interoceptive stuff.

What is it?

Our nervous systems.

So it's an inner world of energy.

In a sense.

It's how we experience anything.

And if we think about it that way.

That's why trauma doesn't operate in linear time.

It operates as energy.

It's not on the clock.

So it doesn't care if that was 40 years ago.

When we're ready, when we create the ground, when we.

Whether we're working with somebody or working solo, that kind of relational peace, that turning towards a yes, I'm ready, I'm listening.

Let me meet you, let me see you, Let me hear you, Let me feel.

Then here it comes.

And that's why it can feel like stored grief.

And that took me quite a long time to work out that there's real grace dignifying a part that has been holding grief, for example, for decades on our behalf.

It can't process it.

If I spend a rainy Saturday afternoon weeping and allowing that grief to metabolize through me.

There's real grace in that work.

It's real honoring.

I'm not sad in the now.

I'm allowing the sad from my history to metabolize through me.

Does that help?

Oh, yeah, it helps masses.

Because I often find if I listen to a song from the past or see something on the news from a certain year that's in my memory, I either cry on the spot.

It's so embarrassing.

My children was like, not again, Mum.

Or even in group calls.

So there's obviously certain things that I must have stored.

So I get this real reaction that I cannot control in the moment.

Is that because I've maybe not spent the time addressing past traumas I mean.

Some of that may not be trauma.

And of course, there can be delicious tears.

Nostalgia, for example, can be beautiful.

But this is why I love working with parts so much.

So a way to turn something conceptual to something more relational.

We're relational creatures.

We understand what it is to be in relation with.

So one of the ways that I work with Shadow is through parts work.

So you can personify and therefore get to know and have a relationship with a part that is carrying a little kind of cluster of emotions, if you like.

So it might be that the next time you hear that song and the tears start to come, especially if your kids aren't around because you were to do it if they are around.

But, you know, one way to allow that curiosity to be here then, is to.

Is to almost, oh, I wonder what part is having a response.

I wonder what part of me is holding this emotional response.

And then you get really curious about, yeah, how long have they been there?

What's what?

I wonder where they're trying to get my attention.

What.

What words might be associated If I were to enter into conversation with this part now, I wonder what it might want me to know.

And then you might get something really lovely, like sweet nostalgia or a kind of a longing.

Yeah, it's so true.

Because I often cry more when I'm happy, strangely enough, than when I'm sad, which is what really confuses my children.

It sounds so luxurious to enter that space of having the time and space to actually be curious instead of rushing.

I think we all live so much of our time rushing that I cannot even imagine the luxury of taking that moment.

Is there any practical tip in the moment that could remind us to be compassionate or have that curiosity?

One of the simplest anchoring techniques, I suppose, is compassionate touch.

Our body responds to touch from self in the same way that it would from touch from others.

I mean, a hand on the heart is the simplest way.

If that anchor works for you.

For some people, it can be a hand on the belly that might feel more grounding.

I really love a hand cupped on the jawline.

And let the hand settle into the face.

Find what works.

Compassion almost is that first step.

And then that helps us connect to ourselves in the here and now.

And it's the self in the here and now who can hold that curiosity for all.

Right, who's here?

Whose agenda is pulling at me at the moment?

Why am I suddenly frustrated?

Or why is that person really irritated?

What's going on there?

You know that if there's some sort of pull, we can just follow that curiosity.

Oh, I love that.

And it really works well for me.

Like you say, the hands, the face, the heart, the hugging yourself.

So thank you so much for the reminder because we learn and then we forget and then we relearn.

Yes, I learned that several years ago and it was really helpful.

Thank you so much for that reminder.

And I know you have either four or five P's to help us break this down a little bit.

Please do share.

What are your four or five P's?

So, yeah, I.

I really have three P's and a C.

But that's just never going to jam, is it?

I have these four P's, which really is just what I wanted to do.

When I was thinking about what a difference playing with shadow made for me as a coach, I started to think about, well, how might I offer this to you, to other coaches?

And the 4Pmodel emerged.

The 5P really sits in the middle, and this is what it's all for.

For me, the key thing is presence.

When we work from a place of presence, there's joy.

You know, we're resourced.

We've got that kind of fluidity and adaptability, and we can resonate.

It's why we do what we do.

If we want to learn the language of shadow, we have projection and polarities.

Think about if you want to learn a foreign language, you'd normally start with a few verbs and a few nouns, and then you cobble them together into these rudimentary sentences.

And then you're very excited because you can order a beer in 17 languages.

You know, the most important thing.

So for me, projection and polarities are a little like gathering together the verbs and the nouns so that you can start to make some rudimentary sentences.

It's an easy way in.

And for me, it's a way that left brain can get on board with because it feels quite practical.

So, you know, it's not too strange.

I don't have to do a leap of imagination.

It's like, well, okay, that's the voice of my inner like, are we gonna let this weird stuff in or not?

Projection is a really beautiful way of being able to work out how the unconscious might be talking to me.

A really fun and simple way to think about projection is who annoys the living crap out of you?

Don't pretend that you're nice, like, you know, talking shadow here.

So just make a little bit of room for.

They just annoy the crap out of me because they're so.

And then what is it?

And I Do this exercise with people and it might be somebody close and near within the family, that friend who always cancels at the last minute, or they're so unreliable.

Or it might be a celebrity or a politician who'd have to struggle.

The divine examples of politicians who annoy or disturb us.

So you would write down qualities.

What is it about that person really, really annoys you?

Then when you found those qualities, cross out they are and write I own.

That's why people's faces drop and they look horrified.

But that's projection in action.

These are disowned qualities.

Things about myself that I've learned that I'm not allowed to have.

I've disowned them.

So if I can't see them in myself, but doesn't have an energetic quality to them, then that force field will spit them out onto other people and says, well, I can't see them in me, but I will see them in you and I will be revolted in them.

In you.

It can be really enjoyable to judge somebody else for being so appalling when we're unconscious of the fact that it's our own disowned attribute.

My goodness.

Absolutely shocking.

And I'm just looking for a get out clause, so I'll try my best here.

Is there any, any tiny sliver that it's like they don't align with your values?

Or is it always that projection thing going on?

Give me the get out.

Give me a get out.

I'm not.

All of these horrible things.

Yeah, I'm going to write them down.

I do think it's true, don't get me wrong, but I'm still looking for a get out clause.

Sometimes, yes, there can be a values mismatch and that is a good example.

It isn't always shadow material, not at all.

However, the very fact that you're cringing is a clue that there will be things like not anything but that, you know, and that would be a really put a flag in the sand and start digging.

Because then there's some shadow material there.

I'm fully open to it.

I'm self aware enough to know that this is kind of embarrassingly looking for a guess out clause here.

And now the really beautiful thing, when.

We'Re projecting onto the other back to this kind of black and white stuff when they're wearing it for us, we convinced that it is awful.

It's a poor, you know, lazy.

Look at them, so lazy.

And we are clear and firm and unequivocal.

What happens when we start to try it On I am lazy.

What happens as it comes closer is it tends to soften.

It starts to look a little different the closer it gets.

We can see that actually sometimes there might be value in lazy.

Lazy can be a bit like rest.

I need to know how to rest more.

So there's a fascinating thing that happens when we bring it a little closer.

I say that to not be afraid of the process of taking a closer look because it changes.

The other thing I want to say about projection is it works the other way as well.

Think of people that we really admire.

Who's doing something in business that I want to do.

Who are the coaches that I look up to?

Who again are the activists or the maybe influencers, you know, people that I look up to.

What are the qualities and attributes they have?

They are so what?

And then cross the map.

So I'll give you that as well, Jo, because our shadow holds incredibly beautiful resource for us too.

It's not just the icky, sticky, scary still.

Yeah, I totally agree.

And like you say, I think we do definitely notice the positive and attract that into our world.

So I'm excited to go deeper.

So that was which piece have we.

Done projection and then the other one we had which was a bit nuts and bolts and works really kind of hand in hand with projections polarities.

So back to your thing around balance.

So if I as a coach identify as being compassionate, thoughtful, empathetic, if that's what I'm happy for you to see and know about me, then I might encourage you to take your curiosity and say, well, for me, what might the polarity of those things be?

The balancing kind of attribute.

If we take on board that everything has its complementary opposite, you know, what might that be?

Again, not all of those are going to be shadow material, but if you don't want to acknowledge it, well, then that might be some shadow material.

Something disowned that wants to come home.

So two great things to play with, projection and polarity.

Yeah, totally.

I love that you've given me an idea for a social media post of like, you know, she is strong, but she's also soft.

I'm still sticking to the positive words strong and soft.

Tell me if I was to do a post on this or Theresa, this might be a perfect post for you.

Good examples of that polarity in action.

There's one that I'm still working through and I've been working through for a long time and I'm glad you asked because it's one of the experiences of working with shadow is that it marches to the beat of its own drum.

That's what I found.

And even when you brought something into the light, it can be complicated and take a while to really integrate.

The example that I would give that I've been working with for a while as a coach, I have a very evocative presence.

I get fed back this a lot.

I'm very calm, it's very spacious.

People feel safe with me.

I can hold space beautifully well.

So the polarity there, it's this provocative presence.

So if we're back to thinking about the range, there's more at that other end of the range that I would like to access.

To be able to disrupt somebody's thinking, to kind of interrupt them out of story, to lay on quite a provocative challenge.

For example, there's an incredible wheelhouse of stuff there and my.

I know it.

And yet energetically, I can't quite open the door.

There's still more to do.

There's something.

Knowing isn't enough.

I'm required to dig a little more and discover more.

Which segues to one of the other P's actually, which is patterns.

For me, it's when things.

When it's difficult to kind of integrate access the energy of something, it points to it being connected in a few different places and spaces.

There's something in this provocative presence.

There are more pieces of the pattern that I have to uncover before I can get my gift.

Yeah, exactly.

That's it.

And because I often find it really frustrating that I feel like I have the same coaching session again and again, I'm like, ah, it's been five years now of coaching and I'm still making the same mistakes.

So I guess that's a pattern.

Well, that's probably lots of the P's combined.

Is it?

Yeah.

And that curiosity.

What I love about the four P's than the other one that we've already talked about was parts.

So the personifying, getting to know, coming into relationship with.

And there's lots of different ways to play with parts, including bringing archetypes in.

So, you know, they're kind of, oh, five years and God, what's wrong with you?

And it might well be that there's a little pattern for want of a better P, really.

I'd call it a cluster, but I'm calling it patterns of.

There'd be a cluster of parts potentially involved in the narration or the assessment rather than one part.

It might be the little cluster that tend to show up.

And it's this getting into the nuance which really helps.

Us start to understand what's going on and work with and separate out the different agendas.

Yeah, totally.

That makes a lot of sense.

I have done some parts work with somebody once before and it was really helpful of separating them out.

And it helps you to think more clearly.

So it's great to be having this conversation and realizing that cluster is clinging together tightly.

Can you give me an example of how to work with these or start to move through some of this?

My word of the year is boundaries, because I have nuns and I've had coaching sessions where the coaches attempted to like, okay, let's role play.

Set a boundary for me and then I'll go.

I'm really sorry, I can't make it because I'm busy rather than I actually don't want to go.

And it feels like no matter how many times, I just cannot seem to set the boundary.

Sorry, I don't want to meet you.

For example.

Yes.

How would I use the shadow or what might be going on in that circumstance?

Lovely, lovely.

Great example.

Because you're not alone.

Absolutely.

So there's so many people listening will be like, what's the magic answer?

And unfortunately, of course, there isn't a magic answer.

We know this as coaches, too.

There's no such thing as people pleasing, but there's my flavor of people pleasing, which will be, you know, in all likelihood, ever so slightly different to yours and the next person's.

So all we can do then is get really curious about our own, use the labels as starting points and dig, listen with our inner ears, welcome imagination and messages that might not make sense yet being willing to sit in the not knowing.

And things will form, sense will form.

Meaning will form slowly in its own time.

It might be that I have an energetic impression of something.

It might be that an image pops into mind.

There may be a word or, you know, an expression.

You know, maybe my nostrils flare.

All these tiny little things become the howl of my curiosity.

So there's a kind of a yes to everything, even if none of it makes sense yet.

And patience, because shadow marches to the beat of the beat of its own drum.

So that's my broad intro.

And if people pleasing is what's most familiar, then I would say parts can be a beautiful way to come into relationship in the way that you would with somebody that you loved, not like knob Ed, you know, I'm sick of you.

You ruin everything.

I mean, that's not a relationship, you know, it's an abusive relationship.

What we want to do instead is come back to heart and turn with love and genuine kind of curiosity.

What can I learn?

My goodness, I wonder what it is you're trying to achieve for me.

And what can I thank you for?

What are the gifts of your presence that I'm missing?

What have I forgotten to remember?

And this kindly, loving attention.

And then people pleasing, you know, part is more available and present.

So then there may be a little more of a turning to the void almost and saying, and what's not here, then you know, what's missing here.

And the thing with kind of hunting for polarities is it's a real felt sense thing.

There's no right or wrong answers.

So for me, energetically, what's my felt sense of what's missing different for different people.

Sometimes we have to sit really quietly with that and wait.

But there's such beauty in the intention even of asking that question, like I'm genuinely interested what's missing for me.

It might not make sense to anyone else, which is why, you know, it can maybe get missed working with another person, but you'll know.

I think there's always that deep knowing when we connect with at some level.

I know because I've always known I didn't have access to my strength or my anger or my meanness or my selfishness or my greediness that it's whatever makes sense for you.

There's something that has been too scary to access that will become a resource and a gift in time.

Yeah, I love that.

And actually it's really helped me to see that for me, the opposite again, using the polarities, which is definitely my way of thinking a lot of the time is like kindness for me is my top value.

And therefore if I say no, I'm not being kind, I'm being horrible.

So I guess it's the horrible kind.

I'm too far down the kind scale and I need to invite some of the horrible scale in.

There may be a part of you that is longing for attention and recognition or peace and rest, or boundaries.

And maybe it's horrible to the part of you that is longing to express her boundaries, you know?

So then it works that way as well.

When we really personify and dignify parts of ourselves with an identity, it becomes easier to kind of remember that too.

Oh, I said I was gonna look after you.

I said we were going to have that quiet night.

Only if I've made that commitment to you, because I really want to nurture you and I wanna see that through.

And I said I was going to.

Then the kind and loving thing becomes you know, internal.

And then it's much easier in the external world to say, oh, I can't.

Without any edge of horror at all.

Yeah, I just can't.

I love that idea.

This is so insightful.

Sorry, Teresa, I'm having my own coaching session live here.

What else do you wish I'd asked you or do you think the audience would need to know to really integrate this and welcome this into their lives and their practice?

Well, welcome into your life.

Well said, really, because I think this is a life's work.

This isn't something where you're gonna get kind of quick fixes or quick answers necessarily.

But for me, it just goes hand in hand with being a reflective practitioner.

For me, as I say, it's really, really helped my, the quality of my supervision.

Feel like I've kind of jacked up my own internal supervisor in a sense.

I think I always struggled.

Well, I was terrible at reflecting on my practice.

I already said good, bad.

You know, I would say if it works for you.

And you know, I've worked with quite a few people now and for.

And it's really interesting.

You're really drawn to the polarities.

Some people love the projection, others just really want to play with the parts.

And it's like, yeah, just follow your curiosity, go with what you're drawn to, if you're drawn to any of this.

It's my experience and experience of others that I've worked with is that it can be transformational for your coaching.

And I've got a whole series of beautiful Testimonials on a YouTube channel.

So if people are interested to know the long term impact for different coaches, there's some wonderful reflections there where people are saying, just more compassionate for myself, more compassion for the clients.

And interestingly as well, they report more compassion for the people that clients are bringing into the session.

You know, whereas sometimes we might judge that person's boss or horrible partner, whatever.

You know, people are saying that compassion extends throughout the whole system in a sense, greater sense of ease, presence, risk taking, both within the coaching relationship and in our businesses.

And you know, the lovely thing, the thing I love to hear is that you can only go as far with somebody as you've gone yourself.

And so people have reported back.

Doing this work just changes something in that way that we communicate in so many beautiful, unspoken, unconscious ways all the time.

Clients just know they can go there with you.

That's another rich, deep bonus of integrating this into your work.

Yeah, I love that.

So reminds me, before we go of your four Ps and your presence, your fifth P as well.

We have projection polarities, parts and patterns, all in service of deepening the presence that we bring to our coaching relationships.

Ah, love it.

Thank you so much, Teresa.

This was an amazing call and I cannot wait for people to listen to it.

So how can we go deeper with you?

Did you mention you do supervision?

I know you've got a retreat coming up.

How can we learn more about you and your work?

Yeah, so I am running two more retreats this year that immersive over a weekend for coaches with cces attached.

My intention for those retreats is that you have an experience of the work so that you can take it away and do it for yourself, by yourself.

And then I'm also offering supervision with shadow in mind so that becomes available for people who've worked with me on the retreats.

So that's a pathway through.

I just love talking about this stuff, as you can probably tell.

So I yammer on about it over on LinkedIn.

So if people are interested in following my journey and insights, you can always follow me on LinkedIn too.

Love it.

And what are the dates of your retreats?

I hadn't realized when I set them, but it's the spring equinox, which is the 21st of March, and that one's going to be in Oxfordshire and then I'm going up north.

My autumn one is on the 17th of October and that is up in Northumberland and both of them beautiful.

Oh, I would so love to be there.

I've already booked two retreats in March and June.

Maybe I can squeeze in an October one.

Yeah, I would love to learn more about your work.

I cannot wait.

I mean, I'm already following you on LinkedIn but I'm paying even closer attention now and I will also check out your YouTube channel too, so thank you so much.

You'll find Theresa at Teresa Wilson on LinkedIn.

Any other website or anything you want to leave?

Yeah, I think it's Theresa Wilson Coaching on LinkedIn and my website is Theresa WilsonCoaching.com wonderful.

Thank you so, so much, Theresa.

I loved it.

Thank you for my own mini coaching session here and such a joy.

Thanks for having me, dear.

Thank you so much for listening to this episode of Women in the Coaching Arena.

I have a mass of free resources on my website.

JoannaLottCoaching.com that's Joanna with an A and Lott with two Ts.

JoannaLottCoaching dot com and I'll also put links in the show notes below.

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