Episode Summary:

Join Harry Duran, host of Vertical Farming Podcast, as he welcomes to the show Simon Deacon, founder and CEO of Light Science Technologies, an organization that provides integrated solutions for the Controlled Environment Agriculture (CEA) market. A dynamic and forward-looking entrepreneur, Simon has founded and grown businesses in Lighting, Electronics and Display manufacture markets. Today, Harry and Simon discuss the intricate and exciting work Simon is doing to disrupt the vertical farming industry. Simon talks in depth about his lighting products, the research his company does and the future of his company, including sensor technology and Artificial Intelligence (AI). Simon speaks to how Light Science Technologies differentiates themselves from their competitors, the impact supply chain issues have had on his business and how they are approaching customer relations through a lens of partnership. 

Episodes Sponsor:

Freight Farms – https://www.freightfarms.com/ 

Global Vertical Farming Show – https://verticalfarmingshow.com/ 

Cultivatd – https://cultivatd.com/

What We Covered:

03:41 – Harry welcomes to the show Simon Deacon, who joins the show to discuss his roots growing up in Derby, his entrepreneurial spirit and what inspired him to launch Light Science Technologies 

09:55 – Milestone moments in lighting technology 

12:54 – Simon recalls some of the projects he worked on during his time at UK Circuits and Electronics Solutions 

18:07 – Defining what it means to truly be ‘organic’ 

20:33 – The inspiration to launch Light Science and growing more for less 

27:03 – Why sustainability is so vital now more than ever 

30:49 – How Light Science is differentiating themselves from their competitors 

34:30 – Supply chain issues 

37:31 – What’s next for Light Science 

40:32 – A tough question Simon had to ask himself recently 

45:50 – Harry thanks Simon for joining the show and let’s listeners know where they can learn more about Light Science Technologies and connect with Simon 

Tweetable Quotes:

“People talk about recipe of light to grow plants, which is obviously extremely important because there’s lots of different species of plants around. But generally there’s about a thousand that we might consume as humans to eat.” (15:39) (Simon) 

“I think we’re more conscious now of what we’re eating, where it comes from and how far it’s travelled to get to your plate. I think we abandoned quite some time ago that idea of being happy just to go to the supermarket and buy the produce without knowing where it comes from.” (18:48) (Simon) 

“One of our lines is, ‘Grow more for less.’ And that’s what we’re trying to do: grow more for less locally using our technology.” (23:14) (Simon) 

“When we talk to our customers and the general public, the most important thing to them is food security. And then the second thing is sustainability. So, where is it coming from, how far has it travelled, has it been in an aircraft and why has it been in an aircraft to get to us. So, we thought that we would make a range of products to suit 2021.” (29:20) (Simon) 

“A lot of our competitors were selling the lighting product. Others are just doing lab work. Others are just doing sensory work. We’ve got all of those, under one roof, where we manufacture our product, we design our own product, but we create that long-term partnership with you. We’re there for the next twenty, thirty, forty years of being in that partnership with you. And that’s what really makes us stand out from all our competitors is the uniqueness of our products and being reusable and recyclable.” (33:51) (Simon) 

“The sensor technology comes out in the first half of next year where we started to use that AI data, which really, I think, is the key to our growing success.” (40:02) (Simon) 

Links Mentioned:

Simon’s LinkedIn – https://www.linkedin.com/in/simon-deacon-6a7b3440/ 

Light Science Technologies’ Website – https://lightsciencetech.com/ 

Sponsor Info:

Cultivatd Website – https://cultivatd.com/

Cultivatd Instagram – https://www.instagram.com/cultivatdco/

Cultivatd’s Twitter – https://twitter.com/cultivatd 

Cultivatd’s Facebook – https://www.facebook.com/cultivatd/

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Mentioned in this episode:

2025 Precision Ag Report by iGrowNews

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that's spelled C-U-L-T-I-V-A-T-D.com,

or click the link in the show notes. A lot of our competitors, you

know, are selling a lighting product. Others are just doing lab work.

Others are just doing sensory work. We've got all of those under one

roof where we manufacture our product, we design our own product,

and we create that long-term partnership with you. We're there for the

next 20, 30, 40 years. Welcome to

the Vertical

Welcome to the Vertical Farming Podcast, weekly conversations with fascinating

CEOs, founders, and agtech visionaries. Join

us every week as we dive deep into the world of vertical farming

with your host, Harry Duran. Vertical Farming

Podcast, Season 4. Welcome back. If this is your first time listening, you're

in the right place. This is the show where we interview fascinating CEOs and founders

of the leading vertical farming companies from around the world. I'm your host, Harry Duran.

In case you missed last week's episode, we had a really, really good

conversation with Matt Ryan. He's the CEO at Soli Organic, formerly

known as Shenandoah Growers. It's a name inspired by their start in Virginia's

Shenandoah Valley. Soli grows exceptional organic produce

at an affordable price nationwide. And we dove deep into Matt's incredible business

background from working at Disney and Starbucks to eventually pursuing the exciting

opportunity at Soli Organic. If you haven't listened to it, I highly recommend you check

it out. This week, another fascinating conversation. This time it's with Simon

Deacon. He's the founder and CEO of Light Science Technologies. It's a company

that's passionate about delivering lighting science and research-proven plant monitoring

solutions that helps growers grow more with less. A

dynamic and forward-looking entrepreneur, Simon has founded and grown businesses in the LED

space. And in this episode, we discuss the intricate and exciting work Simon is

doing to disrupt the vertical farming industry. He talks in depth about his lighting

experience, the research Light Science Technologies does,

and how the future includes exciting developments in sensor technology

and AI. Simon speaks to how Light Science Technologies

differentiates themselves from their competitors, the impact supply chain issues have

had on his business, and how they're approaching customer relations through the lens of

win-win partnerships. Quick reminder, if you are enjoying this

episode or past episodes, I'd love it if you leave a rating and a review

at ratethispodcast.com. /vfp.

Regular listeners will no doubt realize that there was a whole

slew of reviews that got read out on last week's episode. There was some

catching up that I needed to do. So make sure if you want yours read

out, then go to ratethispodcast.com/vfp.

Given the growing popularity of the show, sponsorship slots are

getting confirmed for season 5. If you have an interest or your company

has an interest in sponsoring the show, feel free to send me an email at

[email protected]. Okay, let's get

into this conversation with Simon. So Simon Deacon, CEO of

Light Science Technologies, thank you for joining me on the Vertical Farming Podcast.

Thank you, Harry. It's good to be in. So where are you dialing in

from? I'm dialing in from the UK. We're

based in Derbyshire in the UK. I say dialing

in 'cause I grew up in the '80s and I just realized I don't know

how many people actually have a copper line still going to

their— Not so many these days.

Not so many. It's all new technology. Do you still

remember your home phone number growing up? I do. Yes.

Yes. I still, I still remember it. And I still remember the old

ringtones used to, you used to put your finger into the number and you had

to actually dial it around. And it used to be very slow.

And you would have to get a really, really long cord if you wanted to

speak, if you wanted to take it to another room. Oh gosh,

yeah. Normally you'd go to the phone, you wouldn't take it anywhere.

You'd have to go to the corner of the room where the phone used to

be situated. So yeah, the days have changed

drastically, hopefully for the better. Yeah, that's true.

I'm curious what, for folks that have never visited, what

life is like growing up in Derby. Derbyshire is really nice. We're

just on the edge of the Peak District, which is lots of

countryside. So lots of mountains, lots of cycle,

bicycle tracks running, lots of sort of reservoirs in the

area to go kayaking, which is really

nice. So lots of countryside, but then in Derby itself,

there's big industrial. So Rolls-Royce, you would've heard of for

aero engines. Also Toyota

manufacture cars here. And also we've got

Bombardier who make the railway trains

around the world. Okay. very global companies as well as JCB,

digger manufacturer. So yeah, global companies in Derby as

well. So it's a good place to be based and a central

point in England as well. And is that where you studied as well, university?

Yeah. So I grew up in Derbyshire and I did some

studying down in Warminster in Wiltshire and then moved

back up to Derbyshire and went to Derby as well as Nottingham.

college, so that's where I did my education. And then I

started my business life very young, age of

19, nearly 30 years ago now. I

started my career and started in

lighting, which was where I am still today, but obviously

the technology has grown tremendously over those 30

years from sort of fluorescent tubes and

lamps chokes and starters to

electronic ballasts, and now to what we know and see in our homes,

LEDs. So technology's really moved on and moved forward and

very energy efficient. Do you remember the first dollar you earned?

Yeah, in the days gone by,

one of the lights that we were manufacturing and selling was to

show if notes, if you've got cash, dollars, pounds,

to see if the notes were real or fake. Okay. And you would put it

under what we call a blue-black light. And that was a fluorescent, small

fluorescent tube in a device which you would put the note

under. And if the paper was incorrect, it showed up if it was

fake or real. And I used to manufacture those and then

sell them in bulk around the country to different

retailers and outfits. And that's how my

first dollar was made. Do you have any exciting stories of working

with law enforcement to track down or break up

criminal rings? No, we didn't get involved in the

criminal part of it. I did end up with an awful lot of forged notes,

which you'd have to take to the station because when the retailer found

out that they'd got all these notes which they couldn't cash in, they

ended up passing them to the person who was selling them the detecting device.

And of course, I didn't want them. So you'd either take them down to the

local station or hand them into a bank who would destroy them. Do you

recall when the early fascination, appreciation,

interest in lighting started for you? I think it was at that point

because when I was buying components back in the '90s,

in the early '90s, where I was acquiring and purchasing

the components, the company who I was acquiring them

from was making low voltage for

motorhomes, lighting for motorhomes. And what we have over here is

caravans, et cetera, but also was making

230, 110-volt fittings. And so the

fascination came really at that early stage. And

technology moves at a pace, and seeing the technology

move and expand made that we could move into

different areas. We got heavily involved in

point-of-sale lighting over the years, commercial lighting. Big

factories and offices and malls and shopping malls.

So our expansion happened very quickly as technology

grew, and especially when the energy efficiency came through into

electronics, electronic manufacture of ballasts and

drivers. And then obviously the gains started really coming in

again with LEDs once the price point came

down and they would go globally. So we would produce

products to go global. But there wasn't a country that we didn't

put our lighting into, if it be from China to America,

it was worldwide. And that was exciting. It was exciting

to do the large projects that we did, if it was for

Xbox, Microsoft at the time, or

Nivea, you know, some of the brands that you might have heard of.

So very exciting and fulfilling

really, you know, when you've got these big brands that you're doing. and you're

building a team to deliver a project of scale, it takes

an awful lot of work and commitment. Building that team around you to

deliver those projects was really exciting. I think it's interesting to

see the history. Again, growing up in the '80s, you

think of all the innovations that have been made in the field of lighting.

Probably one of the biggest ones is LEDs, but for someone

who's been well-versed and steeped in lighting for so long,

are there sort of milestone moments in lighting technology

that you can recall? Yeah, I think definitely the, you know, as I

mentioned, that to run a fluorescent tube, you would

have a wound choke, which was copper

being wound round, which creates a choke. And that's what would

run your— the electricity would go through to run your

fluorescent tube, spark up the gas within the fluorescent tube.

And that's really quite old technology. You're burning this, this

gas in a tube to move on to the more

efficient way of running from a fluorescent tube to an

LED being so small. The diode used to be so

small, and, and today they're very difficult to see, but

produces so much light. Quite

fascinating how much an LED

produces and how much light and micromoles it produces.

And then obviously you can put different lenses on it to cover all sorts. But

I think that's where we see the color changing on the outside of buildings,

where we see internally lights that you can't see anymore. They're

hidden within furniture, but they light up a room still.

And I think that's what, you know, has really shown the

difference when you haven't got something clunky stuck to a ceiling

or the outside of a building, it's now concealed. And I

think that's the biggest change we've seen and more widely

available because obviously you can now run LEDs off battery.

So where they haven't had electricity around the world and been using

candles, they can use an LED powered off a battery and then they

can recharge the battery on solar during the day. So I think it's

more accessible. Light's become more accessible around the world. Yeah, that's a good

point. I'm noticing it firsthand. We recently upgraded our

TV. It's a 50-inch TV and I was very surprised at how light it

was and the colors on it. And then the other thing

that's been fun to play with is we received as a gift an LED light

bulb that connects to Wi-Fi. So my partner is

constantly dimming and increasing the light with her phone.

So those 2 things have been top of mind regarding lighting. It's been

really fascinating to see. Yeah. So you've got devices which are

talking to each other, which I think is pretty much everywhere now.

You can, you know, your washing machine, you can control by your phone or your

TV or your lights outside. So I think everything's becoming more

accessible and more exciting to use. Where you used to just switch on a

light and it used to come on and that was the color of it, you

can now change the color to the mood. Or if you're having a

party or you're dining or you're having breakfast, you can change the mood within the

room. And so, yeah, lighting's a big thing and that's really how it's moved

into agriculture as well. to grow plants in

the controlled environment of agriculture has really changed everything

in that space. So prior to Light Science, you

said you were the chairman at UK Circuits and Electronics.

Were you just— I'm interested in the timing. First question is, what's some

of the, the projects you were working on there that stand out?

And also, as you were— is that around the time that you're also becoming aware

of what's happening in this controlled Yeah. So

Light Science Technology Holdings has 2 companies

within it. We've got the Light Science Technology Company, which

is in providing technology into

controlled environments, um, to growing plants,

if it be in glasshouses, vertical farms,

polytunnels, or containers. We cover the whole

enclosed environment with our technology. But UK

Circuits is also within our own holding company in the group,

and that manufactures all

electronics. So we manufacture up their lighting products,

sensor products, and that company's been going over

24 years. Okay. So it's a well-established company,

and that's based up in Manchester in England and employs

over 60 staff up there. And it's growing. So

we're in all sorts of segments. So we do ECUs for cars, so

car electronics, which is obviously really important now as we

go more into electric cars going

forward. But also sensor technology has come

out of there. We've done a lot of sensor

technology for oil and gas industry. And we've

also manufactured an awful lot of lights for lighting companies.

throughout Europe. And out of that, we did,

about 3 years ago now, we did our first vertical farm and

produced a bespoke light for that vertical

farm. And that's really what we saw the

initial thoughts of actually producing technology and

using our 24 years of experience in other

fields, but putting it into this new market, which is is

growing at over sort of £20 billion over

up to 2025. So it's a huge market to be

involved in. And that's how Light Science Technology

came about out of UK Circuits about

3 years ago, using the technology and experience of that team

and building the team up within Light Science Technology to then go

into that market and create a product range of

technology from lighting products. So we have over

44 different types of lighting that

we use, but also we use sensor technology

products to create a— so we can get the

recipe. People talk about a recipe of light to grow plants,

which is obviously extremely important because there's lots of different

species of plants around. There's over 3,000

different species of plants, but generally there's about

1,000 that we might consume. as humans to

eat. So it's creating the right recipe of light for the different

species of plant, which we do. But more importantly, it's,

that's just one element to make sure that you can increase your

yields. And to increase your yields, you need to control the

environment that you're growing in. And if that is in vertical

farming, or if it's in a glasshouse, or it's in a

container or polytunnel environment, you've got to be able to

control that environment. To make sure that you are getting the

best yield out of what you are growing. And so we

provide the technology, the sensor technology going

into that environment, which then pulls

back the big data, all the techno, all the data going back to our lab.

We've got a lab with scientists in who can recreate

your environment wherever you are in the world so that we can

then look at your environment. And see what needs changing.

And then we feed that data back. Now, some of our clients have got scientists

already within their companies and in growing

environments, but others don't. They don't have that technology and don't

have the know-how. They're doing it in a very old-fashioned way.

And so providing the data back to them with parameters, how much

nutrient they might need, how much water, and this cuts down the

wastage. And what we find with growers is that they've been

doing things the same way for a long time, but

they're still, you know, going out, testing the soil. What's the soil

like? Going back, getting that data. This is live streaming data.

So this is bringing all the data to them. So that might be

CO2 levels, it might be nutrients,

it might be how much heat is in the building, it

might be how much light there is in the building. It might be about disease

of crop. Is the crop getting diseased? And we can detect that as well.

And so we bring all these elements together to create the

recipe of that enclosed environment with the

light, with the sensors, and it's streamed back to the lab or

to them directly so that then they can control the environment

themselves to increase the yields. You mentioned disease, and I

think, you know, the more I've learned about the the

industry and, and all the benefits. I, I think one of the things that's touted

occasionally is organically grown and free

from pesticides. And I think there's probably what you're, what you're

outlining here is that there, there are different challenges that come up when you begin

to grow in a controlled environment. So I'm wondering if you could speak to that

a little bit. Yeah. So different parts of the world

have different status for organic. Um, we're

finding, um, parts of the world organic status is being

given to vertical farms. Over in Europe, it's not

as yet. I think it will, we'll get there. But it's all

about, we, well, I think we're more conscious now of what we're

eating, where it comes from, you know, how far has

it traveled to your plate? And I think we've

abandoned quite some time ago

that we've been quite happy just to go to the supermarket, the mall,

and buy our produce. and having no idea where it comes from.

And I think now we're conscious to see, well, how, where's it come from?

The biggest thing that I've noticed in agriculture is

the taste in food. If you grow it locally,

um, then the taste of the food, the produce is much

better than if it traveled or it's had some

preservative put on it so that it lasts longer. Um,

you know, how much stuff travels via aircraft or by

ship or by transport to get to your plate.

What we're trying to do is provide the technology so people can grow all year

round. And all our weather systems around the world are different.

And we're seeing weather change because of climate as well. Seasons change.

But how can we get so that you're controlling the weather from the

point of view of your enclosed environment? So you're growing all year round

rather than buying in or in the off-season. You have

the off-seasons where you've still got to fulfill your contracts. How do you

fulfill those contracts? Well, you can fulfill them with

not actually importing, which is obviously creating a

lot of CO2, but growing locally and all year round.

And what we're looking at is producing where people are growing 3 or 4

yields a year, is increasing them up to 15

to 18 yields a year by growing all year round. And that's the

difference. Wow. What did you see that was different

in the world of vertical farming that

resulted in a different company with Light Science? And as you

were beginning to learn about vertical farming itself, controlled environment

agriculture, what were some of the sort of things that were

new that you had not known of previously in this industry and starting to

learn as you were becoming more and more involved in it? I think in

vertical farms, As you get more involved within

them, you know, they, they're a big investment to

put a vertical farm in from new with a big

infrastructure. You obviously a big building in because obviously you're

doing vertical. It's all about the tiers, how many tiers of farming

that you've got so that you can grow in a smaller

space. And what you're looking at is

100,000 square feet. of

factory space with the right eaves height

will be the difference of 400-odd acres of land.

So you're reducing the amount of land that you require,

so you can do it in a smaller footprint. But

the investment in technology infrastructure

at the beginning is quite an investment to do.

So what we find is that the lead times And

being involved in these projects to delivery can

be a number of years. So in vertical farms,

in the new environment, they take a long time to

establish. As the historical polytunnels,

glasshouses, which are also doing vertical farm, you

can do a vertical farm within an old

infrastructure, is much quicker. And that's

because the infrastructure's there. They haven't got to go out and find the land. They've

already got it. They've generally got the building that it's going to

go into because they're already growing in that environment, but they're making

it in layers. So we find that different. So that's a

learning curve. But I think the biggest thing is the education, is

educating the historical growers, farmers

in what they've done in the past to what they now need to do in

the future using technology. We've all adapted to, you know, having

mobile phones, the different apps that we get on our mobile phones and the

technology being there. And it's the same. It's rather than

having to go to the soil to test what's happening to your

plants, you can be, you know, sitting on a

beach if you really want to be, knowing where your

crop is at, and then you can have it more automated. And if you do

that, you can grow more. And what we try in one of our

straplines is grow more for less. And that's what we're trying to do.

So grow more for less locally using our technology.

As you started to develop relationships with vertical farms,

did you find that it was more helpful to be involved early on in the

process or where there were opportunities for retrofitting?

I'm curious about the different stages where companies are at and where they

get the most benefit from partnering with Flight Science. I think the

earlier that we are in with the project, the more that we can

support and partner with the customer. It's really

important that if you're in at the beginning, there's no

wasted time. You can bring your team in with their

experts and work together as a team and with all their

experience. So there's no time wasted.

You can imagine if you've done 10, 20, 30

vertical farms in your time, you bring all that

experience with you, and that's what the team do. And so we

have plant scientists who know how to grow

different types of crop. And it does start at that. What are you trying to

grow? How are you going to grow it? Is the really

first important part, because then you can

establish what the sort of infrastructure that you need inside your

building. We don't get involved in the infrastructure of the

outside of the building, the shell of the building. But internally,

that's the part we get involved in, in providing that technology.

And so earlier the better is the answer there.

And secondly, where we come into is

the, you know, there's retrofits, energy. We all know

energy is increasing, and I think it will continue to do so.

And obviously there's companies using lights to grow plants, but

with LED products and technology's moved on from when

LEDs I first did my first project with LEDs

late '90s. They're changing so

rapidly that the energy consumption, you don't even

need as many LEDs anymore. So using LEDs, you

bring down the consumption of energy that you need,

and so the electricity supply that you need, so the cost is reduced.

So replacement of current lighting

to LEDs, or even if they've got LED technology now,

it's much better than it was. And so people are finding they're saving 30,

40% on their energy bills if they change those out. And

so that's what we've been helping them do. And we've got a great product

which partners and is very environmentally friendly. Our

lighting product is not only 90% recyclable,

but also our unique selling point is That

it's reusable. So you buy our light,

when it comes to the end of its life, you don't just throw it away

and it gets recycled. You keep the body of the

product and we change the innards. So as we

mentioned, UK Circuits, we've got our own electronics company,

so we can build our own electronics and pick and place

the LEDs on the board. And we can slide the new

electronics, the new technology, into the existing body of the product,

which I think is really important that we start reusing what we've

got, and especially in this particular type of environment.

And that tends to save the customer 30% the

next time they come to replace the lines,

which really is a no-brainer for the customer.

And it keeps us from a supplying point of view, a

long-term partnership. with our customers. We're there for the

long term. We're not there to sell them one product and move on. We want

to create a partnership for the long term. Can you talk a little bit to

that? Because it's such an important topic nowadays, this idea of

sustainability. And I'm sure it's also, you know,

for some companies, the dirty— or in the industry, the dirty little secret

of the fact that some of these components probably do get thrown out

and purchased And you mentioned, obviously, you

have the advantage of being connected with a

rich history in UK circuits. So I'm wondering if you could speak a

little bit as to why this was an important decision for

Light Science to be conscious of impact of

these materials to the planet. I think we've

become, you know, certain generations have become a

throwaway society. Which is

disappointing really. I think it's been too easy for us to

acquire, purchase items, if they be

electronic items or clothing or whatever

it might be. And then we've decided that we'll

discard it. So the cost of acquiring

clothing or electrical goods keep

reducing. And so then we don't see them as a a

10-year item. And we see them, well, next year we might

upgrade to the next item, the better item. And I

think marketing has taken us that way. There is

always the next iPhone. There's always the next Xbox,

the next PlayStation. There's always something better coming out.

We've got to ask ourselves, why can't we be upgrading the

software on the hardware that we buy? like we do with our

computers on some of these devices rather than

throwing away the electronics that you've bought, the hardware that

you've bought every year to get the upgrade. So

with our lighting and, you know, in agriculture itself

produces about 30% of the world's

emissions, which is worrying. And so we

have to change, you know, in England, we've just up in Scotland, we

just had COP26. And we've had the world's leaders

at COP26, and we have to change the way we're

doing things and how we're growing our plants and how

we're delivering our food around, around the world. And so when we

talk to our customers and we talk to the general

public, the most important thing to them is food security.

So that's the first topic is food security. And then the second thing

is sustainability of it all.

So where is it coming from? How far has it traveled?

Has it been in an aircraft and why has it been in an aircraft to

get to us? So we thought that we would make a range of

products to suit

2021 and going

forward, have a range of products that we've got sustainability

within them from day one. So we've produced a range

of products and been very careful about how we design our products

so that they can all be reused and upgraded. So with our

sensor technology, to get upgrades, you know,

you've only got to apply them through software rather than changing the

hardware. And then when they do come to the end of life, as I mentioned,

with the lighting, we keep the body of the product and change the units. But

with our sensor technology, we will have them back and we will recycle those.

so that they can be used again. I think everything needs

to be— we should all be thinking that way now. I know around the world

in different countries that is starting to happen. I think that's

really important. The next generation need

to be driving, as well as we, the older generation, need to be

driving that cause if we want to stop our planet heating up.

Yeah, very excellent point. You may have touched on this, again

related to UK circuits, but How do you

identify what's some of the distinguishing characteristics of what

you provide at Light Science that may be different from then what some of the

competitors are doing? I think a big difference between our

competitors, we, there's a lot of large

organizations leading the lighting

part of producing lighting in agriculture and

providing a recipe of light. And they're

traditional lighting manufacturers who've come into the market,

who've seen an opportunity in a market, in a growing market.

But they're selling a brown box, as we would call it,

selling a product into the industry. They want to sell you as many

products as possible to you, and then they want to walk away

and they go to the next customer. That's not a

relationship or a partnership that They're not thinking about

being green or environmentally friendly. Our

part we play is we don't just provide you with the

hardware, we provide you with a relationship permanently

because we want to look at replacing the light, the

sensor when it comes to the end of its life, if it be in 5

years, 10 years' time. And so we're looking at long-term

contracts, creating that partnership. So we're not going anywhere.

We're there to stay. We're warrantying our products for

5 years or more on some of the things. And so

creating that long-term partnership, providing the

hardware, but everybody goes, how can you prove it?

Well, we have our own scientific labs where we've got our own

scientists with our own grow rooms, and we can

actually prove And you can trial this before you

buy. So you can come along and you, you might have a new

seed that you want to try or a new nutrient you want to try,

or you might have a new lighting product, which is somebody else's and it might

not be ours. But you can go and try it and compare our

lighting product or our sensor product within our

lab and try your new nutrient and you can test it before you put

it in your own environment. And so we have that capability, and a lot

of our competitors don't have the scientists and the

lab to be able to do that. But also

what we do with all our technology, we're bringing it together. So you've

got big data, AI coming out of this. So

the lights and the sensors and the whole environment and the lab are

all talking to each other. And then on your handheld device, you're

providing that information back. so that they know how much

water, or if there's too much sunlight because the plant is just about

to flower, which they don't want to happen. So you are suddenly

having been in control of what's going to happen

before it happens. And that's what AI is about. It's

about starting to predict what's going to happen in the future.

And so a lot of our competitors, you know, we're selling

a lighting product, they've got Others are just doing lab work.

Others are just doing sensory work. We've got all of those in one,

under one roof where we manufacture our product, we design our

product, but we create that long-term

partnership with you. We're there for the next 20, 30, 40

years of being in that partnership with you.

And that's what really makes us stand out from all our

competitors and the uniqueness of our products and being

reusable and recyclable. That's a very important distinction. Thank you for

pointing that out. I'm wondering, as I think about

some of the issues that companies have experienced firsthand,

whether they were ready or not with supply chain, you know, having just as, as

we come out or go back into the pandemic, I'm

not sure where we're at at this point. It's hard to keep up.

We're just about to be back in, I think. So how

has that been for you when you think about that? Because I imagine there are

a lot of components that go into the technology that you create.

And if you could speak to that or any other of the barriers you faced.

Yeah, so in the electronic side of UK Circuits, there's definitely

been component shortages around the world. So you're

finding that stock levels are increasing within our own company

to support our customers' requirements. We even sold

components back to China in recent months, which

is unusual. We're normally buying from around the world to

to produce our own products. So we have seen a shift.

We do see a shift in more manufacturing in our own country

rather than importing. And that might be down

to how difficult it is now to import goods, and

tariffs have increased, and transport has increased

in price over the COVID period. So I think we've all seen

increases in prices, if it be when you go and

buy in the shops or components, raw components you might

buy for your products. So we've definitely seen that happen.

So you have to be, I think with our experience and our

designs, you have to look at designing the product and

designing that component out and using a different component which is

available to put into your product. And I think you have to

be quick thinking on your feet and work that out. Lead times on

some components can be now over a year. And so

designing, yeah, designing that particular

component out and designing a new one in is really what

the company's been very clever about doing. From a Light Science

Technologies point of view, what we try and do

is make our products out of 11 core

materials, and then we stock those materials. And what we

can then do is make up the units of different sizes

in-house. Because we manufacture in-house rather than

subcontracting out, we have more control.

So we've brought more materials in, which makes our range of

products out of those 11 core materials. We

can then build the products that our clients are looking for,

which I think has been really important and being quite clever in how we go

about designing our products and first place, um,

with sustainability with it as well. Yeah, that definitely sounds like

a very smart approach to limit it. If you know that you have

those 11 materials, then obviously behooves you to make sure you have

ample supply of those on hand. So that's a really, really

smart approach. So talk a little bit about the future, what you have planned,

what's on the roadmap, to the extent that you can share what the next year

looks like for like Well, we went public

on the London Stock Exchange in October,

and with the funds that we raised by going public,

we are expanding further into Europe.

But also, we're now doing quotes for growers and farmers and

investors around the world. We're doing one actually

in America at the moment. And so we've had quite a lot of

demand, even though we're not pushing our product over there.

We're finding that there's a bigger demand for our product range

and our products. And so we're starting to get that audience

more globally. And so we're using money that we've

gained from listing on the stock exchange

to grow our product range, to further our

technologies in AI and big data, which we

see as the future. But we've also behind

the scenes producing a system for

traditional farming from the point of view of

glasshouses and polytunnels to make their environment

easier to grow in more all year round, and which has been quite

difficult in the past, and being more automated.

What we find is, especially in Europe, there's been a big labor

shortage. And so be able to be more automated

by using certain technologies and

equipment where you can seed

your ground, you can plow your

ground, you can actually harvest your ground using

certain types of equipment rather than people picking

or using tractors to go up and down in the fields. What we're finding is

your grape gaining more space because tractor tires

going up and down, you can't grow in those tractor tires. So if you

could take away the tractor, but you still can do the same

job of harvesting, plowing, and seeding your

ground, you gain up to over 20% of your

ground back from those tractor tires being lost. And

so in that side of things, we're finding, you know, a

big demand for that. coming forward. So that's new

technology which is coming out, and you'll hear a bit more about that in the

second half of next year. But also,

the sensor technology comes out in the first half of next year,

where we're starting to use that AI data, which is

really, I think, is the key to our growing success.

Sounds very exciting. And I'm sure as most of As

these developments actually start to come online,

people can probably learn more on the website, I would imagine. Absolutely.

Yeah. Please go to our website and have a look at Light Science Technologies.

And a couple of questions as we wrap up. What's a tough

question you've had to ask yourself lately? Tough

question recently. It's a good question in itself.

I think some of the tough questions coming out is

How do we make the company more sustainable?

We're very conscious because of

COP26 being held in the UK, we're very

conscious of that. So how can we make the company more

sustainable, more environmentally friendly? How can we

grow globally and do that efficiently? Those are

the tough questions. And employment is difficult as

well. And making sure that you are employing the right

individuals and they're available. We've got now people

working for us who've come from all over the world, from

Brazil to Brunei. We've got all sorts

of people now coming globally to come and work

for us and making sure that all of those cultures

fit into our business and that we are a rounded

business. So I think that's really ethically, it's really important that

we're around a business if we're going to grow into

this global company and be part of

what's going on in the world in this key

marketplace is that we can do

that with the right individuals coming from around the world to create

our company. Yeah. That's an interesting outcome

of the pandemic is companies were forced to

rethink what the importance of having people on-site

and then pushing to the limits of what's capable and what you're possible of

doing remotely. I was hearing of like remote

tours and remote walkthroughs and people were getting more and more

creative. And now to your point, opening it

up and seeing that you do have that flexibility of a remote workforce,

while that is a benefit, it's an interesting point you brought up. You're also

Because you're global, introducing new cultures into your environment, and that becomes its own

set of challenges, which I'm sure has been interesting. Yeah. And I think it's,

it's, you know, technology and using video conferencing as much

as it was, you know, been around for some time without being—

it's right, educating ourselves. We've been forced to educate ourselves

into using it. And that's been a good thing. And that's the same in agriculture,

using the technology that we're providing. It's education.

And it's good for traditional farmers as well as it is to the new

vertical farmers. You know, don't get left

behind, join it now. You know, it's important for us all to

embrace technology and to use it where it's fit to

do so. Speaking of not getting left behind, I'm curious, what's

something you've changed your mind about recently? What have I changed my mind about

recently? I think moving more

into— I didn't know if I was going to— in our

country, we are moving away from fossil-driven

cars, fueled cars into electric

cars. And I wondered when I would

go into acquiring an electric car and when

that might be. And I think I've changed my mind that it'll be

earlier than I probably thought it might be.

I think we all get a bit set in our ways and get used to

things and you have to try something new. So I think

really that's been one of the things that is pushing

me to move into acquiring an electric

car rather than a fossil fuel car. Yeah.

Years ago, probably 10 to 15 maybe, I

tested out the Nissan Leaf and then I, for a while, I've had a

Toyota Prius Hybrid, but they're interesting to drive and I

don't have it anymore. But it is, it's almost like we're, because of

some of the car companies mandating that they will be

out of gas vehicles, I think it's, to

your point, behooves us all to start to realize what

we do enjoy. My partner loves the feel of a stick

shift, so her car is actually a manual. So I think

it'll almost be a collector's item at some point, a gas vehicle. I think it

will be a big piece of art, won't it, on our driveways or wherever we

decide to put them. But I think that's another thing which is changing and

we have to embrace. As long as the infrastructure's there, I think we're in

this transition period globally where the infrastructure has got

to be there and the mileage. You'll be able to

do the kilometers or the miles are available to do

under one charge rather than having to constantly to keep

charging a vehicle and the charging just becomes quicker. Yeah,

you start to see some of these highways being built with the

charging strips in them, which is fascinating technology in and of itself.

Yeah, we haven't got that over here yet, but I have seen that on the

internet and I'll be looking forward to seeing where that goes. But

that's really different and exciting. I don't know if

they'd be able to pull it off on somewhere like the

Autobahn.

No, it'd be interesting to see if they can do the speedings and then be

able to charge for both at the same time. Yeah, yeah. Well, Simon, I

appreciate you taking the time to join me on this conversation. We had

a couple of challenges technology-wise which we

were able to work out, so I appreciate you being flexible with that and for

sharing your story and, uh, the interesting work you're doing at Light

Science. What I think is fascinating is how you've been able to take all this

experience from UK circuits and now apply it to what you're doing at

Light Science in a way that does, you know, really seem to give you a

competitive edge in terms of what you're doing and how you differentiate

yourself from your competitors. And also, it's very admirable to see what you're

doing on the sustainability front because it's something I think that needs to be talked

about more. So on all fronts, uh, thank you for your

time. Thank you, Harry, for inviting me. It's been a joy to

talk to you. and experience and go through our experience as we

grow. We're very excited about, about the future and moving

forward. And it's a great market to be in. And we're

thrilled to be part of it. And so for more information, we'll have all the

links mentioned in the show notes. And the website is

lightsciencetech.com. Anywhere else to direct folks?

No, that's the place to go. lightsciencetech.com

is the place to go. Okay. Thanks again for your time, Simon. Thanks, Harry. Thank

you. Bye-bye. So thanks to Simon for sharing his story.

As always, full show notes are available at verticalfarmingpodcast.com.

We're also looking to update the site with PDF transcriptions of

these conversations as well. So again, if you have any questions, I'm

always available at [email protected]. We've got some great

plans in store for season 5, including growing our

community. And restarting our newsletter as well.

Special thanks to our season 4 platinum sponsor, Cultivated. If you're looking

into a vertical farm and don't know where to start or which technology would suit

your needs, reach out to them today. Best of all, their service is free because

they work on behalf of their partners. Learn more at cultivated.com, and

that's spelled C-U-L-T-I-V-A-T-E-D.com.

Just leave out that last E. And an additional note of congratulations

to the team. for completing their $3

million Series A round. Nice job, guys.

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And yes, we will be sure to read those out on future episodes.

Headstrong into the end of the new year as we realize that

people are looking for content to listen to over the

holidays. So that's why we're staying consistent with our

production. Next week, we have a great conversation with Scott Bryson

of Orbital Forum. Hope you're enjoying the holidays with your family. I'm

grateful to each and every one of you for listening in every week and for

sharing the podcast with your friends and neighbors and

other folks. In the vertical farming space. Until we meet again, here's to your

health. Thanks for listening. To read the full show notes for

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