Jared Gahm’s journey from a struggling fighter to the owner of Pedigo Submission Fighting in Bloomington is nothing short of inspiring. In this episode, we delve into the trials and tribulations he faced while pursuing his dreams, including risking everything to open a 9,000 sq. ft. gym during the chaos of COVID. Jared shares candid stories about the many sacrifices he made—leaving his comfort zone, investing all his savings, and even dealing with skepticism from those around him. He emphasizes the importance of surrounding yourself with positive influences and the undeniable impact of a supportive community in the world of fighting. Tune in as we explore how Jared's resilience and unwavering passion for coaching have shaped his path and the lives of his students.

Takeaways:

• Jared's journey from a struggling fighter to a successful gym owner exemplifies resilience and dedication to his dreams.
• He emphasizes the importance of surrounding oneself with supportive individuals to achieve personal and professional growth.
• The evolution of his gym during challenging times shows that hard work and risk-taking can lead to fulfilling dreams.
• Jared believes that a coach's primary role is to provide support and encouragement, fostering a positive environment for growth.
• He highlights the necessity of adapting coaching styles to meet the unique needs of each athlete for effective training.
• Jared's story illustrates that pursuing one's passion, despite obstacles, can lead to a rewarding and impactful career.

Companies mentioned in this episode:

• UFC
• WBC
• Eastern Illinois University
• Gold's Gym
• Bellator
• Strike Force
• PSF Bloomington

Fighting can be taboo and looked at, it's a negative thing.

You know, angry people do it, man.

A lot of my students are a lot less angrier after fighting.

There was one time he was fighting for a belt and he got knocked out and that was, that was so hard for me.

That's where Matt Hughes, who was a UFC champion, Chase Beebe, who was a WBC champion, Clayton French, who was a king of the cage champ, all trained at Eastern.

In a small little wrestling, like owning an MMA gym, that's not really normal, you know, teaching people how to fight, that risk.

He has a tolerance.

I said about earlier, I was just okay with, hey, I'm interested, I'm going to do this and you can't tell me different.

Hello and welcome to the Evolving Potential podcast.

This is Todd Smith and we're episode number 33 today.

I'm here with Jared Game.

Jared is a former professional fighter in MMA while also competing in boxing, jiu jitsu, bodybuilding, CrossFit and strongman.

His teammates have been UFC, Bellator and Strike Force fighters.

Jared has a master's degree in exercise science and has been a personal trainer for 23 years.

He's considered one of the top trainers in Chicago.

Now Jared is the owner of PSF Bloomington.

He's wearing the shirt.

There you can see a 9,000 square foot gym that he built during COVID and he's been able to maintain with zero debt after needing to borrow mats to open it.

Originally his passion was always in coaching and now he spends all his time building fighters, teams, tournaments, and his gym.

So thank you for being here, Jared.

Thank you very much for having me.

I'm excited about this.

Absolutely.

So, so I'm curious, first and foremost, with all your experience, what do you feel like separates a good fighter from a great fighter?

Well, a lot of that.

And this, this comes from, I'm going to be the first to say I, I was never a great fighter.

I was above average.

And that's about where I put my skill level.

But the, the fighters who truly are great, the world champions, the elite of the elite, there's a lot of genetics.

And this is the exercise science.

Some, some people just, you know, have that lucky skill set for athleticism.

But on top of that, it's also the grind.

How much are you, you know, doing the extra work, how much extra practices are you staying after?

Are you studying?

So it is a skill set that you have of genetics, and then after that it's, what do you do with it?

So you, you can be talented but if you don't put in that extra work, it doesn't go anywhere but on the couch.

Yeah, understood.

And so if you see a fighter with, if you saw a fighter with like really high potential come in, what would be some of the signs that you'd be looking for of, of worry?

Like what would you be telling them to avoid so they really can maintain and get to that highest point of potential?

So this is going to sound cheap and corny and it's going to be something that I know people's parents and grandparents and coaches said it's all about the people you hang out with.

Because I, I've seen some amazing.

And I'll be the first admit too.

I, I definitely have hang out with the wrong group of people at, at points in my life and nothing good got accomplished.

So I, I've seen athletes come in and I'm gonna give a perfect example is a student that just got third at Pans last year.

His nickname's Gremlin because he's about 5:1 and he's, he's a ball of energy.

But I'll, I'll be the first one to tell you that, and he will too, that when we first met, he has all the potential in the world.

He is such an amazing grappler.

I, I didn't show him something one time and then that night he's using and submitting guys.

It's, he's very skilled, but.

And I tell him, I was like, stop hanging out with your hood rats.

Stop hanging out with your old hood rat friends.

Once he moved to Bloomington, and I literally think three weeks after meeting him, I had him moved into one of my friend's homes and got him a job literally right next door to the gym doing heating and ac.

After he got away from all the BS and the people he used to be with, he got really focused with the gym and Pans is my opinion, top five top three hardest tournaments in the world.

He went there this year and he got third place.

Wow.

And so that's one of those.

Yeah, it's just, it's the environment that you're in.

If you're in a good environment, you can accomplish great things.

And even my, my coach, Tommy and Heath Pedigo, they will be the first to tell you that too, that they have guys come into their gyms once they cut out all the BS and all their, you know, hoodlum, hood rat shit and focus on the gym, focus on good people, you see the evolution.

And that isn't just the gym.

That's Also too, the personal life gets better, their relationship with their family and significant others, all that gets better when you're hanging around the right folks that have the same core values.

Now you talk to Michael Jordan, he only hung out with a couple select people, you know, so it's the same concept just in you and then the rest kind of just works itself out.

I definitely knew about that when I was at a younger age because I'd say high school and college, I just, I was always focused into like the meathead weightlifting.

Like I always was in the gym and that's when I was around good people.

Now, did I have spouts where I spent too much time at the bars?

I was hanging out with the, the cool people.

Absolutely.

That didn't get me anywhere.

And there also was a time in my life when I was about 23 that breakfast was a cup of coffee and two ciggies.

And it, and like I said, I, I, me going through that year of hanging out with wrong people, drinking a case of beer four nights a week.

I got a DUI and nobody's fault but my own.

Like, I definitely messed up.

But then what I did is I completely changed and I moved to Champaign, started working at Gold's Gym for Dan and got into fighting and I changed my environment, changed the people I was with, I was like, I'm not going to bars, I'm not going out with certain people, you know what they are, really just went to a different town, just started over.

And it was scary, but that was the best thing for me was me screwing up, getting a DUI and then moving and restarting over.

And it started with a healthy gym environment.

I found a healthy grappling and MMA gym started there.

And then after that that snowballed to going to Eastern and getting, you know, finished on my education, meeting Tommy, which kind of eventually led me to psf, you know, about 15 years later.

So I just always say, you know, Tommy Butler, who's from Mattoon, he's the one person in my life that definitely like met him.

I was my mid-20s, he took me in, taught me, taught me fighting, cornered me, became good friends till this day.

And if it wasn't for having.

Tommy's one of those people I'd need in my life.

I never realized it and how much he's helped me and the success I've gotten, all from a good coach that believed in me.

He didn't owe me.

So this is a guy that you met after long answer, but no, it's perfect.

That's perfect.

This is a guy that you met after you moved?

Yeah, it was my first move out of, you know, town to kind of reset was in Champaign, Illinois, or University of Illinois is.

And then from there I went to Eastern Illinois.

It's about 45 minutes south.

And they had a very good kinesiology program.

Chase Beatty, who was a WEC champion, Clayton French, who was a king of the cage champ, all trained at Eastern in a small little wrestling room and got to train with them.

It was really cool to see the elite of elite and a small town while finishing up your education.

You.

You got to be exposed to that because back in the day, it was hard to find it and just found a small hick town with a bunch of tough hillbillies from Illinois.

It's like, all right, I fit right in with you boys.

Wow.

What was the process like for you?

To.

What process?

Move.

To get through that, that move into, you know, to feel.

Be okay with the fear that you were dealing with, I guess, because a lot of people that get stuck in some sort of rut, like they get a dui, they're not just going to go and move cities.

Like, what did you deal with that?

Was it an easy move for you, or is that just like a, holy shit, I can't believe I'm doing this.

And what got you through that?

So this is what I did because I'm.

I'm one of those people, and like I said, I was 23, but I definitely am a type of person that if I know something's bad or if I don't like you, I just cut you off.

That's.

That's it.

So I knew I needed to reset.

So when I moved the next week, I changed my phone number and I only told a few people.

At that time, I didn't have any social media, so you couldn't find me.

And I just didn't tell.

Tell people.

I just said, hey.

I knew I was doing this up, and I just kind of stopped going out and just moved.

So nobody really knew.

And then I came back in town, you know, every once in a while and I'd see people and they'd be like, hey, what?

Where are you at?

I was like, oh, I'm in Champaign now.

I'm doing this.

Like, when'd you do that?

I was like, after my dui and.

And it was probably three quarters of the people were good for you.

You did the right thing.

And then the couple of people are like, man, why'd you leave us?

You forget where you came from.

They're all either got another DUI or in jail.

So that's the evolution of.

I knew I need to change.

And the people that stayed doing the same, their evolution was different than mine.

So people, people do know right from wrong.

I don't give me any of that bs, you know right from wrong.

It's, are you okay with the right or wrong?

Are you okay with standing up to the norm?

An MMA gym that.

That's not really normal, you know, teaching people how to fight.

She has a photography studio within the gym, which I've.

I've never seen that at all.

But it's a really cool feature for us.

You know, our life isn't normal, but we love it.

We have students that this.

So it's one of those things where everybody is normal.

Doesn't make you happy, then do what makes you happy.

And what, what I'm doing.

I can't see myself ever doing anything different.

I love coaching.

I love being in the gym.

I love just being around the gym environment.

I'm happy, I'm centered.

So that's one of those things of, I know this makes me happy.

It's not what everybody else does, but hey, that's cool.

I'm doing what's best for me and nobody's got to change my mind at this point in my life.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So other than being around just good general people, when you did that move, what were some of the things you felt like you learned that started to really change?

Maybe the coaching that you now do.

Yeah, the.

I will say the big, the biggest change, because it is scary moving and starting over.

I've done it probably six or seven times, but I'm going to say this is doing that, putting yourself in that scenario, scary.

But how much you grow of, okay, I don't have anybody here.

I don't got friends, family.

I'm starting over.

Where do I go for groceries?

That's like, where do I make friends?

What I do for entertainment?

Who are the people I should be hanging out with?

You got about six months of figuring that stuff out, but then you're like, okay, I don't need the comfort of what I'm used to.

I can do this and then you do it a second time.

It's still scary, but it's familiar.

So I do think if, if you're okay with putting yourself out there, move to a different town, see what it's like.

Like, I.

That's one of the beauties of this world, is it's okay to move.

I. I'm not have Any interest in moving to another country?

But I, I love to go travel and visit other countries, but the, the moving to another country, that one, that's a whole nother animal that I'm not going to touch.

But moving to a different city within your country, within the United States, easy to do, but it's scary as just, are you okay with putting yourself in that scenario?

And my, my risk tolerance, I've learned, is exceptionally higher than the average.

But that's just what makes me me.

Yeah.

So if you had a student who potentially could not leave their environment, like lives at home, maybe the, there's a tough situation going on at home.

Do you have any sort of mental reset that would not include a changing environment, would maybe include changing that internal environment.

So yes and no.

And that's a kind of a case by case scenario because that's what's the support at home.

Does he have a supportive family?

Does he have supportive significant other or are they very unsupportive?

So that's where if they're at home, you know, and I'm gonna, I'm gonna use my fiance Sabina as a perfect example.

Like I definitely would not be here or have what I have if it wasn't for her.

But also too, she has let me know, hey, you need, I need this out of you.

And I've said to her, honey, this is what I need out of you.

And, and that's, it's a give and take of that support of.

Honey, are you willing to support me with this?

Yes, I'm willing to support her, but she needs to tell me what I need.

Now, I know people that they don't have supportive spouses, they don't have supportive significant others, kids, parents, you know what, whatever.

Well then are you okay with living with that negative beatdown or is it better for you to separate them?

And I know that's hard.

Some people can't separate family.

Some people don't want to break up their significant other.

Okay, then are you okay with living without support?

I'm kind of one of those of, hey, if you're not going to support me, okay, then I don't need to be around you.

I don't need to hear your BS if it's just going to be negative about what I'm trying to do.

So that's, and I'll say this like, I've totally just left and I've lived in a gym before.

I've totally just, hey, I'm out of here.

I'm cool sleeping on the floor for A while.

I've had.

I've had lots of friends.

They've lived in gyms for a year.

They didn't have an apartment.

They've lived in cars, in the parking lot of gyms.

Just need to get out of their environment.

And, you know, that's one of those things of, what's your risk tolerance?

What do you want to do?

If you're okay with living in a gym, living on a couch, you can do it.

It's just, you know, not many people are willing to do that nowadays.

Yeah, absolutely.

Absolutely.

And so if you or maybe even a fighter that you are coaching has a big fight coming up, you know, again, people being very different.

I totally understand that everyone's motivation style is a little bit different, but what are some of the common things that you see coming up that you have to help fighters get through when they have a fight coming up and it's high pressure?

Yeah.

I'm gonna give you two examples.

I'll give you grappling from pans this past year, and I'm gonna use my student Eli, who I'm very close with.

With him, it was.

He needs the, hey, are you okay?

How's your weight?

You know, giving him the hand on the shoulder, giving him the hugs, and tell him that I love him.

That's.

That's what Eli needs.

And he got second at pants.

It was incredible to see that.

And it was, okay, you're doing.

This is I.

He does very well when I give him the verbal confirmation.

Gremlins like that, too.

And then I got Matt, who also went there.

I just need to make Matt laugh.

If I can make Matt laugh, then he's good to go.

I was like, okay.

He's got that weird little giggle.

All right, Matt's ready to compete.

He's relaxed.

Eli Gremlin, you know, I give them the positive, hey, I got your back.

This is gonna be fun.

Just go out, do what you do, baby.

And I got you.

And then me, I'm part psychopath when I compete, and I don't want anybody to talk to me or touch me.

It's just, hey, just give me a fist bump and get out of my way.

Afterwards, I'll talk your ear up of a Ford.

Don't talk to me.

So that's is finding what the people need.

And then just recently, Gage, he was a college wrestler.

He just won a kickboxing title with Gage.

It was just talking to him, working him through the game plan, and then just giving him that support.

So leave him the hell alone.

A Couple guys, you just need to make him laugh to calm.

But also too with, with the coaching, it's how well do you know your competitors?

How well do you know your.

You know your guys?

Because everybody's different.

And also too, if they win, it's easy.

But what do you do for your guys when they lose?

And that's a whole nother animal of what they need afterwards too, because if you're in this game long enough, you're going to win some, lose some.

That's just how it is.

Just let them know, like, hey, man, you played the game and you did something that nobody else is willing to do.

Like, that's awesome.

So it's.

Those are kind of my case scenarios of giving the support for fighters, grappling, stand up.

And also too, just the kind of different case of what you need to do.

So it's the coaching, you kind of need to be a chameleon.

Need to know, like, what, what guys need.

Did you feel like you had any losses that were like, so bad that kind of shook you to the core?

Jiu jitsu?

No, because Jiu jitsu, it win some, lose some.

My buddy Scott and I call him Sprinkles.

And yes, I did that on purpose.

I don't care.

And again, him and I are like good friends.

This last gym and the one before that, he's.

He's the guy who donated the cage to the gym.

He was in there welding it with me.

We had some long days with nylon sleep and caffeine and, you know, some sugar just to get fuel.

And, you know, I've cornered him through wins.

And there was one time, because not only was my friend hurt, injured, you know, I, I knew that Matt Hughes was right next to me cornering, and we both looked like, oh, our friends hurt, Somebody gets knocked out, and you're cornering because you can't do anything if it's.

They get, if they get submitted, they lose on points.

You know, it's you, you encourage that.

The, the knock.

I'm gonna.

Somebody's knocked out unconscious.

That one does.

That one.

That one does get you.

So Sprinkles, his loss was probably the worst one recently, but then he did come back and he got a really good win.

So he, he came back after it.

That's awesome.

That's awesome.

Yeah.

And how.

What do you think have been a lot of the things that have your.

Developed your coaching style.

So obviously, you know, some of the coaches you've experienced some of the life lessons, but do you think there's any been anything else you would credit your coaching style to?

100.

I'm gonna give you the three people that helped with that.

The first one, I'm gonna give it to Mike Trotter, PT Boss.

And so I, when I found out you could be a personal trainer and you're 14 years old, you couldn't tell me anything different, that that's what's going to do the rest of my life.

So any of the teacher guys, counselor told me it's a bad move.

Screw you guys.

I'm still doing it.

And, and when you go through personal training, they also teach you how to be a trainer.

So I, I've been personal trained for a while, and Mike Trotter definitely taught me a different way of personal training.

It was how to open questions when you started to find out what they need as a trainer.

And then I transfer that really over to my coaching with the boxing and the kickboxing and whatnot.

And then after that, I realized there's, there's two type of coaches that I really work with.

So there's.

There's the emotional coaches right here.

I, I am the coach that practice.

I am up in the air.

I'm screaming, but it's like positive.

I'm giving guys hugs.

I'm giving them fist bumps.

I'm getting people riled up because that, that's just who I am.

I am just the loud, outgoing coach, but it comes from a good place.

And if I could say the emotional coaches that I would compare that people know, I would say Mike Variable and Dan Campbell from the NFL.

Those guys were what I call players coaches.

And that's exactly what it is.

You, you played the same game that these guys did.

I tell you guys, like, listen, I've done boxing, kickboxing, mma, jiu jitsu.

Like I've done any, any of these combat sports.

And one lost.

But I've been there, done that, so I know what you guys are going through.

So that's where I'm at as far as like being the emotional coach and the players coach.

And then the other type of coaching there is that, that stoic coach, which I'm definitely not.

But with the stoic coaches, those are the coaches that can grab a guy with his hands like, hey, come over here and talk to me.

I do have that in me because I do like the one on ones with my guys.

I like them knowing, you know, about me, about, you know, my fiance, Sabina.

I like them know, like, hey, I'm a person too.

I've gone through this so the, the coaching of being, you know, from Mike helped me first with like how do I talk to people, how is it that I figure out their purpose for here and how do I help them effectively?

And then as far as my style of coaching, it's definitely more of the players coach, the emotional, outgoing.

But then I also do have, because I also do have a minor in sports psychology.

So with that is talking to them and finding out what we're looking for.

That's the behind the scenes that, you know, I'm not going to share those conversations, you know, that I have with people through text or anything, but there is that.

And you, you just gotta be around the gym long enough to know me that when that stuff happens, it's around you guys just don't really see it because that's not the kind of stuff I show out for social media to see.

Yeah, makes sense, makes sense.

And so other than just fighting, I know that, that martial arts in general have a character building traits to them.

And so do you feel like that's something that your gym has this culture of really like, you know, embodying a certain type of being as a fighter, you know, what does it mean to be a fighter and the discipline it requires and how do you keep them from not fighting on the streets?

Well, a couple things and that's a very, very good question, Todd.

I really do like that.

So the character building, it actually starts probably the first day that they get there.

And my, I've been on other teams and other affiliates.

I've also talked to other guys who wrestled high school and college.

I know my other teams I've been on, I had maybe like three or four guys I trained with that said that were like around my weight and belt level.

You didn't really go outside that.

And then once I joined psf, my first practice I think was I went every single person in the damn room.

It didn't matter, age, height, weight.

And I was like, okay, this is different.

And now looking back I was like, I really didn't know many of those other teammates because I didn't really get that, you know, time to go with them unless I made sure I did.

So at this gym, I don't care at every single person you go with that practices and we, we have over 120 students.

So at some point you've traded sweat with every single one.

And I think that just gains with the confidence because kind of like we said, you know earlier, when you can go to another town and start over, start at a whole another Gym, that's a whole another animal.

Because if you've never done this, you're going to a room that you're not in shape, you're probably going to get beat up.

Welcome to mma.

It's just, are you okay with these guys that are doing this?

So the, the one thing with.

Is when you come in, are you okay with getting beat up because you don't know what you're doing, you don't know how to fight, and then are you okay with meeting a whole bunch of new peoples and strangers?

And the one thing I do too, is I make sure is, you know, you got your leaders.

So it's, hey, go with him.

It's his first day.

Go with him.

His first day.

So they.

They get that introduction and then they learn different people from different environments.

Because we got the college kids, we got the adults, we have kids wrestling.

You have guys who just do stand up.

So there's a lot going on at the gym.

Just like learning at a job, moving to a new town, learning how to make new friends.

Gym has all the characters that you would at any other job.

You know, you got the jokers, you got serious people, you got the people that just got to do their thing and leave so that the first character of the gym is just learning how to get.

Be a part of a team, being a teammate.

Because if you.

If you join the gym and you're like, hey, I want to fight professionally.

Okay, cool.

Let's see you survive a practice.

But if you.

But if people come in and they go, yeah, I just want to learn this.

I want to make some friends, I want to get in shape.

Cool, awesome.

I don't give a.

If you never compete.

If you are a good person and a good teammate, every day you walk in the door, perfect.

I want you here the rest of my life.

Yep, that comes first.

And that's something that's hammered into the people like, hey, if you guys want to fight, awesome, we'll get you there.

It's going to be tough, but, oh, yeah, we'll get you there.

But if you never want to fight and you just want to be just the best teammate, even better.

Competing.

Competing is cool, but that's not what makes.

Makes it.

Yeah.

And I tell people, I'm like, hey, fighting's cool, competing's cool.

But nobody's joining because of those accolades.

They join because of the environment.

So our environment, it's tough, it's very competitive.

But also too, with that whole, you come in the very first day and you don't know how to fight yet.

You're gonna get, you're gonna get tossed around, you're gonna get submitted and then they realize, oh, I didn't know.

Once you learn that skill set and then you go against somebody their very first day, you're like, oh, this is like holding down my little 7 year old nephew that doesn't know what he's doing.

Like that.

When you get to a point, it's like that, yeah.

Some drunk at a bar, it's like, you don't want this and it's not going to be any type of a challenge.

So I, I truly do believe that.

And every single practice you're going to get some kind of a live round for at least 15 to 20 minutes, essentially, that's a fight.

So if you're doing that day in, day out with guys that know what they're doing and they see that challenge, some guy who's had, you know, too many pitchers of beer and isn't even half ass coordinated, it's like, dude, you're, you're good.

Just have another pitcher.

I'm gonna go over here.

So I really think the hard environment that we have these guys because, and I've heard it like, and I tell you guys, like, guys, I worked at bars for 10 years.

If you think I haven't been in my.

I have.

And a lot of it was just, they know what they were doing.

So it was a quick problem that got taken care of.

So I tell them that I don't try to act like I'm better than nothing, but I said a lot of those times is something quick and simple because they didn't know what they were doing.

And they, they've seen that now because I've heard of them going to frat parties or going out to bars and somebody tried to get lippy and I go, well, what'd you do?

And they just said like, he talked.

But I looked up and down.

It was like, dude, it ain't even worth it because I got practice in three days.

It's going to be harder.

So that's really.

I gave him a tough enough room that they see somebody doing that, they're just like, this isn't even going to be worth it.

So that's good.

That that's kind of my, my answer.

That is, I, I haven't had too many scenarios with these guys because practice is hard enough for them.

They realize the average joker just ain't worth it.

That's cool.

Yeah.

There is no challenge in that.

There's no point to it.

Really?

There's no, there's no benefit?

No.

And I.

No.

And I.

A couple of these guys have said this, which I'm totally okay with.

If they had some like, other frat boy or some college guy talking, I said, well, you tell them to come to the gym and sign a waiver and we'll go in the back room.

There's no windows, and you guys just have it out there.

And they, and they.

I've had a few guys that said they've said that to people.

I was like, they're gonna come by and sign the waiver.

Like, no, they didn't want to.

I was like, all right, then you solve the problem.

Yep.

Direct confrontation.

I'd be okay with it too.

Yeah, well, here's the thing.

Because if they fight you in the street or a parking lot, some guy gets cracked, falls, hits his head and cracks his head, my guy's going to jail.

Yeah, this, this is bad enough.

They want to throw down.

All right, we got Friday, open gym, we'll clear the match, but then afterwards the shit's over with.

Never, never has happened, but it's been offered, so.

Yeah.

And I'd rather them.

Hey, this is similar to a competition.

It's maths.

It's a controlled environment.

Those guys want, want a piece of you.

They can.

It's never happened.

So I'm glad that my guys realize, like just that typical bully, you know how to fight, you stand up to them, they say they want to fight.

All right, let's go here.

No, I don't want to do it.

Okay, problem solved.

Yeah.

Have you ever seen.

No, I like it.

I like it a lot.

Have you ever seen guys come in as the typical.

Maybe angry.

They're getting into fighting because they have some sort of anger.

It turned into something more healthy.

You're looking at them.

Yeah.

No, it's just one of those things of, you know, I knew that fighting, athletics, the gym, that was my healthy out outreach.

Like, I'll be the first met that.

That year that I was, you know, drinking and doing stupid.

I didn't have a healthy outlet.

I wasn't training, I wasn't lift.

I wasn't doing anything.

And I, I'm just a self destructive idiot.

Like if I don't have a healthy outlet, I'm self destructive.

And that's a lot of other people.

Gremlin.

I talked about exhibit A. I guarantee if he wasn't at the gym, he would do something stupid and be handcuffed, you know, so he's, he's just One of the many examples.

And honestly, I could probably go on and on about that list.

Another, really, I'll give you a military one, actually.

Kid I've known since he was 14, 15, like he was just a little punk kid, but parents came him in and he was doing football, weightlifting, jiu jitsu.

Like that was all he did.

If he would not have done that, I guarantee that kid would have never graduated high school.

Now he's in the Marine Corps, gunner, doing well, squad leader.

And I was like, dude, the best thing.

And he said, he goes, dude, if I didn't have you as a coach to like, tell me how it is and not give a.

That was 16 going against 30 year old men, I probably wouldn't have, you know, been what I am in boot camp.

He goes, you just gave me that tough love.

And he goes, boot camp was easy because of the you did to me.

I was like, all right, man, you're welcome.

Got a big old marine flag at the gym now from him.

Jeez.

So, yeah, that's just one of the many.

And like I said, I know that, man.

A lot of my students are a lot less angrier after practice.

Problem solved.

I'm curious, do you have a certain sort of viewpoint about bringing young men in and making them into more of men?

Like a.

What would you describe as a typical man or a good man and how you might be trying to develop them into that?

That, that's a, that's a loaded question, man.

I don't really want to answer, but in my eyes, it's just.

Do you have a moral code?

Okay, Are you sticking to that moral code?

If what you say to people, what you do, and you can justify it.

Okay, go for it.

I, I'll be the.

I'm gonna say this.

There's some people that, I don't agree with their moral code.

I don't agree with how they treat people.

And those are people that do jiu jitsu and people that don't do jitsu.

So that's just, you know, how I view life is I have a certain moral code and how I view people, friends and family and whatnot.

And if you're aligned with that, all right, cool.

Let's make sure you stick with that.

If you have a certain moral code that just isn't jiving, you're just not going to last in the gym.

So that's kind of how it is.

Is.

That's perfect.

So I'm curious now, what is, what is your origin into fighting?

So very good question.

And it's it's one of those things.

It's very much like something that you hear a lot, like a shitty karate movie.

I. I'm from a small 240 person town, like no gas station, no stoplight.

And I grew up on a farm outside of that, so just middle of nowhere, central Illinois hick.

And when I moved to Bloomington, and that's where State Farm Insurance, their headquarters is.

So I went from, you know, farm community, everyone knows everybody, to a very heavily populated town with different ethnicities.

So I was a kid that got picked on, Skinny, nerdy kid from the country moving to a city, got picked on.

And, you know, just later in life had that bully and then stood up to him one day, popped him, broke his nose, man.

Just typical bully, stood up, boom, it was over at lunch.

And then later on I started boxing and did football, boxing, track.

And then after that, it was, you know, it was one of those things of.

I didn't even think about it.

I always liked it.

I always liked the Rocky movies.

And during that time, while I was boxing, I had a high school football coach that we had just gotten some brand new weight equipment from the university got donated to us.

And he told me he was a personal trainer at Gold's Gym.

And I didn't understand what that meant.

So when I found, yeah, I, I didn't, I didn't know that you could get a job at a gym or that teaching people how to work.

I was, I. I didn't know that was a thing.

I was 13, 14, just knew I liked to lift weights because that's what Rocky Balboa did.

That's all.

That was my education at that point.

Yeah, 13.

And then after that I just kind of developed into more of, okay, weight training also helps with football.

Weight training helps with this.

Okay, you need to stay in the weight room.

And then I learned that you do certain workouts for certain things.

And then in college, I was so annoying to my professors because the, because there's people that college is like jail.

I'm here to do my time and get out.

Okay.

I was one of those people of get me to the kinesiology, get me to the nutrition classes.

And that's when I learned that the weight room transfers to this.

And then during the time when I found out about UFC fighting, that was slowly.

That was a little bit after my dui.

And again I was like, okay, you need to get back into the weight room.

So Gold, Jim Bloomington started lifting again there and ran into a guy that had done wrestling.

So just Overhand, just over with for him.

It's about the ufc at that time, I knew, like the original skeptical.

So I was like, all right, man, we'll.

We'll do this.

And then I went to his fight and he won.

I was like, oh, this is so cool.

I was like, this is a real thing.

So my dumb ass, two months later signed up for a fight, dropped the guy in 19 seconds.

I just threw an overhand and connected.

And then, yeah, like, I, I didn't know what I was doing.

And then I had another fight and I won.

And then after that, I went, hey, maybe I should take a jiu jitsu class.

Yeah.

Then that's when I moved to Champaign, and then I started working at the Gold's gym there.

I bounced at a bar and then I started actually doing Jiu jitsu and learning.

So it's one of those things where, you know, I, I didn't have a lot of guidance.

You know, I didn't, I didn't have anybody teach me right from wrong.

It was just, hey, you're interested in this, let's go do it.

Hey, put yourself around these people.

Let's just go do it.

So that was kind of a, Kind of a longer explanation, but it was one of those of I was interested in something, I found people and I went and did it.

You know, I was interested in mma.

When I found out that was a thing, I knew there was some people in Champaign, I moved there and there was a gym.

So I found a Gold Gym, a gym to teach me Jiu Jitsu and mma.

And that just followed suit with Eastern, that had a good kinese problem, kidneys program.

And then I found out, okay, they have some in main trade down there.

Okay, I'll figure the rest out.

So, yeah, it's just that, that I'm interested.

I'm gonna do this and you can't tell me different.

It's a theme of my life ever since I've been about 14, is I have something in my head I'm gonna go do, and I'm gonna go do it, and can't tell me different.

I love that.

And where were you planning on at any point becoming a pro?

I mean, I know you kind of mentioned you.

You saw yourself being a better coach than a pro, but was there a point in time where you're like, oh, hell yeah, I want to be a pro.

And you were fighting towards that.

I just, okay, if it happens, cool.

If it doesn't, that's cool too.

And that's, that was also like When I got into jiu jitsu, I was like, hey, this is gonna be fun.

And then I was like, well, if I open a gym or if I make money, that'll be cool, but if I don't, that's cool too.

Like, we'll just figure this out.

And even, like, opening the gym, right, Because I. I opened the gym during COVID lockdown, like, right in the heat of it when everything was closed down.

And I was just like, I got five, six guys in my garage.

Screw this.

Let's.

Let's just open a gym and see what happens.

And now it.

It turned into five and a half years later, I have the largest gym in town and the only one with the combat walls in the cage.

So it turned into, hey, I'm just gonna try something.

No one else is doing it.

Let's see what happens to now.

It's okay.

This is unreal how fast this grew in five and a half years.

So, geez, that's kind of like anything else.

If you have that interest in it.

Surround yourself with people that believe in you and just go for it, man.

Geez.

So you had, like.

If you said you had like five or six people training in your garage already.

Yeah.

So this is what happened.

I was with the team, and so I stepped away from.

Once I got my masters, I stepped away from fighting.

I. I didn't do, like, besides like, personal training.

I would teach people some basic jiu jitsu or some boxing, but I didn't.

I didn't compete.

I didn't go to a gym or nothing for seven years.

And that's when I did strong man bodybuilding, CrossFit, like, trying to scratch that itch with something competitive and athletic.

But I always watched the ufc.

I was like, oh, that's cool.

And I used to train with that guy, and now he's still fighting, you know, like, I still half ass followed it.

But then after a while, I was like, let me just try.

Let me just try practice, see if the old man still got it.

And first practice, like, oh, yeah, I'm back.

So I was with a team for about two years, and during that time, that coach was going through divorce, he was having some addiction problems, and I have a standard for myself.

I also have a standard of my coach.

And when you ain't fitting the bill, I'm gonna do something else.

So circle back to Tommy Butler.

He was part of Heath Pedigo.

And this is right before COVID and he had talked to me about him, and I was kind of like, all right, I never heard of him.

But I, you know, I love and respect anything Tommy says.

So I went down right when co was starting.

I went down for a practice, and there's no other way to say it anyway, but Tommy just worked me, and he had me against really good guys, and I had to run outside and puke.

And that had never happened at the gym I was at, and I hadn't felt like that in a long time.

Came back in, you know, Tommy put his hand on my shoulders.

Hey, man, how you feeling, buddy?

I was like, dude, this sucked.

And he goes, yeah, well, since you were a And went outside, puke, you're back down.

And I was like, calling me out like, no, went back down.

I had to go outside and puke again.

She just came back and just went, I got it.

I'm back down.

And that was that.

That's how Tommy got me, is he knew how to work me, and he knew he would hook me.

And afterwards, we went out to dinner, and I was like, okay, Tommy, what.

What the just happened?

What's going on?

Like, what is this?

I need this in my life.

And that was the moment that Tom.

Tommy definitely just had me convinced of.

I need to be a part of this PSF team.

And he was an hour and a half drive.

So it turned into me not going to my team once a week, driving an hour, half, getting the beat out of me for two hours, driving an hour and a half.

And I was smiling island ear to ear the whole time.

Like, I loved every minute.

20 Minutes to my team.

I guess I'll go.

Like, I wasn't excited.

So then it turned to me driving twice a week, an hour and a half, loving every minute.

And I just saw my.

My skill evolving because of that healthy environment.

A hard, nitty gritty environment.

So then Tommy said.

I was like, hey, Tommy.

And I got five, six guys.

And I was teaching whatever Tommy taught me.

I went back and taught my guys, like, I didn't hold back.

That's this exactly he's doing.

This is what we're doing.

And, like, we haven't done this before.

I was like, that's why the works get going.

Like, so they all loved it.

And they.

Yes.

And then we got a couple more.

So I think at that time, we had about 10 guys cycling in and out of my garage.

And they said, hey, when all this Covid happens and what's done, they go, can we just train with you and do this?

We don't want to do what our old coach is doing.

I was like, all right, way to put the pressure on me, boys.

So I had a conversation with Tommy, and he said, if you want this, you need to have a blessing from Heath and you need to go down to Mount Vernon.

So I was like, all right, this is where we go for it.

So.

So I talked to Heath, and I went down and stayed, I think, three or four days.

I think.

I think it was four.

And that's when they had the.

The laundromat.

So it was small room, one bathroom, one door.

And I have never had the beat out of me like that in a long time.

And the guys, actually, they.

They all went after me because they were like this 30 year old old man, you know, we're gonna get him.

First practice, it was rough, and then my accommodations.

What I was.

I had two pillows and a blanket and the wrestling mat, and I.

And I just used.

After the practice, I stripped down to my underwear in the front.

Water bottle to rinse off.

I soaked up two water bottles to rinse off, and it was water from the sink.

And then I sold the guys.

Hey, guys, I'm gonna go get something to eat.

Do you guys want anything?

Because they had like five or six guys living in the gym.

Like, that was their home.

I was like, you guys want anything?

We'll go grab something to eat.

And they were just like, yeah, we'll, We'll.

We'll see you later.

Just very standoffish, just you, new guy.

And I was like, okay.

Like, I. I kind of knew what was going on, but I didn't.

I came back, and those guys like, oh, you.

You came back?

I was like, yeah.

I asked if y' all want food.

Like, I was gonna spring for it.

So I just sat in the corner, read, read my book, went to sleep.

Next morning, hey, you guys want some coffee or anything?

Oh, yeah, we'll see when you get back.

So I went panera breakfast.

Coffee.

Came.

Oh, you came back.

I. I didn't understand.

We're getting to that part.

Practice looked on me, shower.

You guys want anything?

I knew what was coming.

Came back.

Oh, you came back.

Yep, I came back.

Practice, eat.

So this happened two days in a row, just every scenario repeated.

So third day, guys, I'm gonna go get something to eat.

And before you guys know I'm coming back, I will be back.

And then after that practice, then they said, hey, we're.

We're gonna go out to Jerome's place.

You want to take a shower, have dinner with us?

I was like, oh, okay.

So they had the bonfire.

Yeah, I Showered.

Alejandro came up.

He's like, oh, Tommy's guy's still here.

Like, all right.

What the going on?

Why do you guys keep saying this?

Like, I didn't understand.

They said, like, well, we've had about 10 guys come and say they want to join, and after one, two days, they say they're gonna go get something to eat, make a phone call, and they leave.

They don't come back.

They go, you're the only person that's came back consistently.

I went, oh, I see.

You were trying to get me out and I wouldn't.

And they said, like, kind of.

We just.

This is how we train.

And people don't like it.

It's like, dude, I love it.

And if I.

If I would have known about this place after grad school, I would have just moved in the gym.

Like it.

I loved every minute of it.

So the next day, I finally met Heath and them.

And this.

This is the truth.

I. I went against one of their top dogs.

Collided.

Heads, head started bleeding.

So I'm there, you know, bandage on my head, and Heath went up to me and I. I knew the test.

I knew what was coming.

He was like, you know, you okay?

You want to quit?

And I was like, dude, it's all good, baby.

I was ugly before I even came here.

Let's just stop.

And I'm back in.

And I did.

I just once, once said, yeah, I'm not pretty.

I don't care.

So once, once it's stopped, I went back out and I got my ass handed to me.

But I never.

I never quit.

And I met Keith and we talked and I said, hey, meet a couple guys from Bloomington.

We.

We want to start our own thing.

Can you give us some kind of guidance?

And, you know, Tommy Voucher, man, he goes, well, I tell you what, if you ever come back here, we'll talk.

And then he just walked off on me.

So my cocky ass went, I'll be back next Sunday.

And that's a three and a half hour drive.

I drove back home.

Yeah, I drove back home the next weekend.

I brought Maddox and another guy and Max, student number one.

And he goes, oh, you came back.

I was like, yes, sir, I promise you I would.

And then did the practice.

And then he goes, hey, why don't you set my office?

I was like, where's the office?

He goes, oh, it's.

The mat's in the corner.

All right, here we go.

And, you know, we.

We had very short talk.

Like, it really wasn't a long talk.

But he goes, I've seen you here.

You never quit.

You talked to Tommy, and he gave me some guidance, and then he said, let me know what you need help with.

Go open a gym.

And I really believe that was kind of a test of, are you actually going to do this?

Are you actually going to develop this?

And yeah.

And it turned into I was renting space from a guy who had like a big, big CrossFit style.

And three nights a week we would get our mats, put them down, run class, clean them, flip them, fold them, put them away.

And.

Yeah.

And it was during COVID lockdown, and I had.

I had people call the city on me, try to get me closed down.

Just didn't work.

And there's a couple times where it took.

It took an hour to put all the mats down.

And then cleaning, putting away, hour and a half.

And there was a couple times that not a single damn person showed up.

So I put them all down by myself.

No one showed up.

And this is.

I said, this is what you do.

I folded it, lifted it up, said, this is all going to be worth it one day.

I put it away, flipped it, lifted.

It's all going to be worth it Every.

Every step, every time.

And I had every reason to quit during that time, during COVID no one showing up.

But I was like, no, man, that's.

That.

That's part of this story.

Keep going.

And then our match.

That I spent all the money of the savings, every single dime I had into these mats or black rollout mats.

Had them two, three months.

And then I was trying to be a good guy and help out a local wrestling coach.

They ruined the mats because how they rolled them up the wrong way.

Ruined every single mat that I owned.

And I was completely broke at that time.

Yeah.

And I didn't even get a thank.

Sorry.

Not a hey, what can I do to make this right?

No, he just blocked.

Everything goes well.

I thought we did the wrong.

It's like, well, you didn't block me.

So this day, not even an apology.

So Maddox, student number one, and he's always gonna be near and dear to my heart.

He let us run the gym out of his basement for about three months.

So I had about 10 to 15 guys occasionally parked in his front lawn, walk down the basement.

We had the ruined mats, just duct tape the out of them, make them work.

And I was running a gym out of a student's basement for free and got the cops called on us a couple times as we explained what was going on.

And.

And it was just.

And I.

And during that time I had a broke elbow too.

So I can't tell you how many times I came home in my driveway, just cried and I even texted Heath to quit.

Like, I had it sent, like ready to go.

And I literally was like, okay, you go home and you sleep.

And if that's the truth, in the morning you send it.

So it is wrote out about why I was quitting, what was going on in my life.

Went to bed and it was three times for sure.

Maybe four.

We'll, we'll just say three.

Next morning I was like, dude, you, you're.

You don't want that on you.

You don't want that to be part of your life story that you quit on this.

You suck it up.

And ended up getting a 660 square foot gym.

So about three, about six small circles, a creepy hallway.

I swear to God, it's a creepy hallway that we all changed in.

And a bathroom.

And we made it work for about a year and a half, outgrew the place.

And then we moved into a 2,000 square foot gym.

And that was third shift.

Doing security at a hospital, making it work.

And we grew into that 2,000 square foot place.

Same thing.

Dumped all my savings I had and it like recouped.

Dumped it all.

Like, I think, I think I had 70 bucks to my name for about five, six days.

Like, that one was scary.

And then.

Yeah, and then I was like, I'll never outgrow this place.

This is my max.

Like, this is the biggest gym in town.

You know, we're done in four months.

We were running out of room.

I was like, what the hell's going on?

Like, I didn't know what was happening.

And then during that time, Sabine and I were starting to get very, very serious.

And she ended up moving in with me.

And I can truly say, if it wasn't for her having the right woman in my life to help me.

Like, and she does all the memberships.

She got into photography and now she's a pro photographer, does amazing work and all the support.

Like the guys come in and they'll give her a hug before they even touch me.

Like, now I want to say I, Sabina first, I'm like, thanks.

But I mean, it's because there's some of these guys that they don't have parents.

And I am not the soft ass coach.

There's guys that have had bad days and just gone Sabina's office, just talk to her the whole time.

And they leave.

They're like, hey, I didn't practice, I just need to talk to somebody like Sabina.

And I was like, yeah, man, I gotta do the same thing when I'm all done with you guys.

So.

Having her has.

Having her has been such an amazing blessing.

I. I will always say if it wasn't for my woman, I. I wouldn't have what I have with the gym.

She.

She was the missing link that we needed.

And then we were going to move from our 2, 000 square foot gym into a 4, 000 square foot gym.

And for six months, they never put in a toilet.

They wouldn't get the building permits.

And we had planned like, I had planned three times to like get this st. We couldn't grow and we ran out of room.

So finally they said to me, you know something, apparently this isn't working out for you.

Like, feel free to look somewhere else.

And I am the wrong person to give that green light to.

So I, I dropped.

I drove around crying for about 10 minutes in my car.

Like, ugly girl got broke up with on prom night.

Crying.

Like it was, it was.

I go live one for.

But then again, I was kind of the same thing, you know, when I was crying in my driveway, I was like, dude, you're.

You're not going out like this.

So drove around and 20 minutes later, I found the gym we're at now.

And it's a 9,000.

So going from 2,000 to 9,000.

A whole.

Another animal, brother.

But I.

It was a beautiful location.

The parking lot was unreal.

So I called the guy and he goes, yeah, it's available.

When do you want to see it?

I go, how fast can you get your ass here?

And I said, I'm waiting.

And he said, 20.

He said 15 minutes.

And 20 minutes later I was in there looking around at the place and what we.

I couldn't believe the size of it, the availability, and the part that was extremely like, this was meant to be.

All of our mats fit in there because I had the mats for my 2,000 square foot gym, but I also purchased mats for a 4,000 square foot gym.

So the plan was sell the two, four moved in.

That gym's like, well, I guess we have to keep all the mats.

So what, what we ended up doing is our.

Our 9, 000 square foot gym.

And it was originally an Aldi.

It was the original oldie in my town to give people references.

It used to be a grocery store.

Yeah.

So when you think about that, you're like, oh, that's big.

So our 2,000 square foot gym.

The entire back storage is that gym.

The exact mats, the cage.

But the only difference is it's.

I think it's like 27 or 28,000.

So we have a weight room now, hanging bags and a changing room in the back room.

And then our front room is over 5,000.

So I have two full wrestling mats in the front room.

The Craig Jones combat walls.

And my.

And my fiance has a beautiful photography studio in their office.

So her business, a photography studio and office is her own space.

We have two full wrestling mats with CGI walls.

I have a small little office that I could care less.

And then we have an MMA gym in the back.

So there's two gyms and Sabina's photography business.

And then upstairs there's a half kitchen and two bathrooms.

So it was.

Yeah.

And this all happened in five and a half years.

Like, it was one of those of.

Okay, dude, you've never taken a business class.

Accounting, marketing.

How's this growing?

It's just kind of.

It's been a cool process, but also one of those of.

You know, I remember just hearing stories of people with gyms or people's business doing stuff like this.

I'm like, yeah, this is part of your story now, bud.

Like, now you just have to figure all that.

All that stuff out.

All the intangibles of running a gym and being a business owner.

Yeah, that was okay, man.

You're in it now.

Let's go do this.

So the.

All the coaching that I did that all worked, and now I'm taking that coaching into running the gym and now having other coaches do the same thing.

So have a youth wrestling program now that's growing freakishly fast.

We got 30 kids in it, and it.

It just started this week.

Yeah.

And I.

And the coaches that we have kind of like, we talked about their morals, their characters are amazing.

We have a kid who was a D1 wrestler and ranked 18th in the nation.

We have an NAI wrestler and he's a head coach, Zach.

And then he also was a wrestling coach at a high school and he's a PE teacher.

Amazing.

With kids, coaches, both of them.

And then we have Danny, who is also a local junior high wrestling coach.

He's the other coach.

So you got three amazing guys.

And I. I never wrestled, but there is such a need for a wrestling program in this town.

I said, okay.

I talked to the coaches, we all got on the same page, said, you guys run it, I support it.

And we have a very good youth wrestling program that's starting and Gaining momentum.

We have an MMA team, we have a grappling team.

And then my amazing fiance has her, her own business in the gym.

Like, it's, it's just wild some days to think about that.

Geez.

So, so what do you feel like you can attribute the success to?

If you say you haven't, you know, done any sales, marketing, business stuff, how have you seen now maybe in hindsight that you were really doing things right?

This is what I did is I, I will always be the first to admit that I do not know know everything.

I'm not the best coach, not the best gym owner.

But what I do is I have a lot of connections to other gym owners and other business owners and other coaches.

And I just never went into this thinking I knew anything.

I went into this and I would call coach gym owners that I respected.

And I said, hey, can I buy you lunch?

Hey, can I steal an hour phone call for you?

Hey, can I lean on you with some questions?

There's some guys that don't talk to me at all.

There's others that I literally have sent that they just blocked me because they thought it was a competition.

But there's a lot of guys that, hey, yeah, dude, you're always a good dude.

You're.

I want to see you be successful.

Those are the guys I reach out to.

Those are guys if I have my freak out moments because, oh, I've had them, buddy.

Hey, what, what's going on right now?

Like, what's going, they're like, oh, you're in this stage.

Yeah, you're gonna be fine.

This is what's going on.

So any of the guys who are way ahead of me in the gym world, reach out and talk to them, ask them for help and guidance and you're gonna, you're gonna get the guys that aren't going to help you or they're just not going to give you good advice.

They just talk about themselves.

Hey, that, that's fine, man.

There's other guys that are an open book and they want to help you.

You just know who to look out for.

And I, I have no problem.

Whenever I travel, like my fiance go on vacation, I'll stop at other gyms and if I can't train, I at least, hey, can you give me a tour and just learn from other gyms?

And you know, I've learned from CrossFit gyms, I've learned from weightlifting gyms.

I've learned from a lot.

It's been a lot of fun.

So it's just, you Know, knowing that it's okay to ask other people.

And men, hey, I don't know.

I'm a rookie business owner.

Yeah.

It's just.

This is one of those things.

Yeah.

Yeah.

That's actually how I started this podcast.

I started reaching out to people in the sports psychology world and trying to figure out, like, hey, you know, what are you teaching people?

How are you running your coaching sessions and what are you charging?

And just all of a sudden, I'm like, having these deeper conversations, and I'm like, oh, man, this would actually, if I recorded these, these would make a great podcast.

Yeah.

I've always.

People being honest, saying, just.

Just from a place of passion, not from a place of, like, you know, I'm wanting to take from you.

You know, I'm wanting to pick your brain.

It's like, hey, I'm really passionate about this thing.

I've got a big goal.

Just wondering if there's any sort of nuggets you could pass my way, you know, that would help me.

Yeah.

My journey.

Oh, yeah.

My favorite question to ask is, what was your biggest up?

And I. I say, I, I not saying this because I want to throw shade at you or I want to put you down.

Whatever your big screw up was, I just want to know so I don't make it.

And anybody I've asked that to, whether it was a coach, a gym owner, or anything, they go, that's a really good question.

Here's one.

And some guys are like, I got two or three for you.

And.

And like I said, there's some.

I'm just like, that was just dumb on your part.

And other ones, I'm like, huh?

I was actually considering doing that.

And they go, no, no, no, do this.

So just being blunt, saying, hey, this is my biggest up.

It's.

It was.

It's a good question to ask.

And I even tell guys too, like, so the guys that are getting ready to compete, I tell them, I was like, hey, you want to know what my biggest up was?

My first jiu Jitsu competition.

And they're like, what?

And I go, about 30 minutes before we parked, I asked how to score points, because I didn't know.

Yeah, no, I. I signed up for a jiu jitsu class.

And then he told me the price.

I had to work about another month to kind of switch my schedule around a little bit.

And then two months later, there's a double elimination tournament in.

In Indiana.

It's called.

It's called the Hoosier Open.

I actually, I actually still have the Shirt.

Double elimination with 02, baby.

Didn't know what the.

I was doing.

Yeah.

But I. I tell.

I tell my students that, like, you know my buddy Dan Hornbuckle, who fought for the Bellator belt, like, he fought Ben Askren.

We were both white belts on the way to that tournament.

You know, he won it.

He was already seasoned.

How do we score points?

Like, what.

What do we do?

So I tell the guys, like, guys, even your own coach, his first Jitsu tournament, didn't know what the hell he was doing and lost them both.

Like, so this gym, man, there.

There's a lot I don't know, but trust me, boy, I'm gonna call somebody.

I'm gonna figure it out.

And again, that's just that.

That risk tolerance I have.

Hey, I'm struggling with this, man.

Can you help me out?

Can you give me some pointers, some nuggets?

And just a lot of people are too afraid of admitting they don't know something or they're wrong.

I tell Billy, guys, most of this, I'm winging it.

I'm just seeing what kind of shit will stick against the wall when I throw it.

Hookup is so far from this gym.

Gym experience.

You've had.

The wrestling coach.

Here's.

I would say, with brain staff on now.

Here's why.

And like I said, this is part of me learning is when I first became a personal trainer, I was.

Oh, I'm a personal trainer, so I know everything about personal training.

23 Years later, I still am learning stuff from personal training.

So when I wanted to grow my gym.

Oh, you know how to wrestle?

Do you know how to coach wrestling?

Yeah, of course I do.

Okay, you're the wrestling coach.

I never saw him teach.

I don't know how he teaches.

How does he treat people?

Does he even fit in with this gym?

And I. I've done that with striking coaches, you know, also is.

They said they know how to.

I watch them strike.

I watch them wrestle.

Oh, yeah, they know.

Oh, yeah, you're the coach now.

So in our.

In our gym, there very much is a culture.

There's a way that we do things.

So now, this has been my rule.

Now, somebody comes in, they say they want to be a coach.

Cool.

You have to be a teammate for at least four to six months first, because if you don't fit in with the team and if these students don't like you, then you're not gonna last.

Because end of the day, all of my students.

And this is.

This is another thing how I always took This.

I did this even with personal training, because I've seen this.

Personal trainers and coaches, they think they're hot.

And it's a privilege for other people to train with them.

No, every single one of my students, they are my boss.

At any point, they can fire me and go somewhere else.

So that's how I look at that Is, hey, there is.

I'm the coach and I'm the leader.

But also too, we keep.

We keep it so that the majority of the gym, it's a culture.

We all do the same thing.

We all support each other.

If I'm doing something stupid or shitty, I've been called out before.

My.

One of my really good friends, Brendan, if I'm doing things not right, Brendan, there's a couple guys that call me out.

Brendan's one of them.

He's gonna be glad I pointed that out.

But then there's also two that the coaches.

I've called them out because, like, hey, man, do we do that?

Are you supposed to be doing that right now?

Like, what would you.

Would I be doing that?

They're all right.

Not gonna last.

So the guys have been around.

They're okay to come into coaching.

But the one thing I would recommend to anybody, if.

If you're a new gym owner or new business, somebody claims they know how to do it.

I understand that 30 and 90 day thing now.

I really do.

So I do that with people that want to, hey, I want to coach.

I want to do this.

Be a teammate first.

Make sure you fit in, make sure you know how things.

Because the coach, they'll be like, well, why aren't they interested in what I'm.

What I'm showing?

Well, you want to.

Why?

Because they're paying for what they want.

They don't give a.

What you like.

Yeah.

So that fine line with bringing coaches in, make sure that the coaches fit the gym environment.

And also too, they.

That you can work with them.

Because I. I got some buddies who are coaches, and I know they're a good coach, but I wouldn't want to work with them.

And that's okay.

Like, hey, man, you're a good guy.

You're a good coach at your gym.

But how I run things at my gym, we.

We just wouldn't jive.

And that.

That's okay.

That's part of figuring, figuring out and just being a business owner.

That's perfect.

What do you feel like you're working on now or working through to either maintain the gym?

I mean, I would say grow the gym, but I don't even think you need to grow anymore.

So what are you.

What are you working on now to maximize what you have there at the gym?

Yeah, so you're right.

I don't.

I don't need to grow the gym.

We got enough space.

Like, spaces is no longer the.

The issue for me.

It's.

It's growing the wrestling program.

And before the 2,000 square foot gym, we only had Jiu Jitsu two days a week.

Striking two days a week, and then open gym Friday.

Now what I'm doing is five days a week grappling in the front, five days a week, stand up in the back.

So now, now what it is is just filling out those classes more.

And yeah, I think they're staying up in the back and jitsu in the back same time.

So I tell people when they walk in the door, I'm like, hey, do you want to punch people in the face or do you want to roll around and choke people?

Because it's both going on at the same time.

You just decide which one you want to do that day.

And also to.

The weight room's big enough that some guys like, hey, I don't want to do any.

I just want to lift weights and hang out.

Cool.

Get your ass in the back.

So it's just one of those.

It's a multifunctional gym.

It's just more and more getting the advertising out and getting the word out of where we're at and what we're doing.

Because we were in a hidden kind of industrial place, and now we're at a shopping center right in the middle of town.

So it's also the move letting people know.

And that's just.

It's gonna take time, but it's that boring.

Every day, talking to people every day, getting your name out every day, sending emails.

You know, it's.

It's the business side that I'm.

I'm hustling and running and, you know, pros and cons.

Yeah, yeah.

They say that entrepreneurship is the biggest personal development journey.

So how do you feel like that's affecting you right now?

What is the thing that you're working through personally to become a better business owner?

I'd say this is for me, for the business owner.

And I really do like that question because it's.

It's definitely evolved because I think first starting out, out that 660 square foot gym that we moved in from when we were homeless and Max's basement, the.

The first step is how do you run a gym?

You know, how do you do automatic payments.

And that, that's another thing.

I would recommend anybody do the gym right away, do automatic payment.

Because trying to collect cash from people, once you hit about 30, 40 students, you're like, no more cash.

It's, you know, trying to collect from 30.

Like, try not to say, I got like 120, 130 students.

I couldn't imagine trying to get cash from 100 students, remembering what they pay at that one day.

Like, oh, that ain't.

That ain't happening, baby.

So the, the first, the first gym is, hey, can you run a gym?

Do you know how to get an ein number?

Do you know how to do your taxes?

Set up utilities?

And I'll be the first admit I still know how to set up utilities.

That was Sabina.

I don't.

I don't know how to do those at all.

Because that was, you know that that gym was almost the same size as my home.

So figuring that one out.

Yeah, figuring out, like, okay, you own a business, you work full time, and you have this, like, what.

How do you figure all this out?

So that was when I really started to reach out to other gym owners going to visit gyms, you know, figuring that out.

And I, I even flew all the way out to North Carolina for five days.

There was Avery Richards, my boy, he's a.

He owns a PSF out in North Carolina.

And my buddy Brendan, he was there for his job, and it was the same town.

So I slept on a couch for five days, and I was at that gym every day.

Avery, how do you run a gym?

What do you do?

How does this work?

And he, he has a 5,000 square foot gym.

And like I said, I was moving to that 4,000.

So I was like, okay, I need to learn.

I need to visually see it, I need to touch it.

How do you do this?

I learned so much from that.

Five days out there, brought it back, and then honestly, that was kind of one of those, like, okay, you can do this, but it.

You have to make it work because of the risk reward factor.

And then when it came available, the 9,000, I was like, okay, this is where you really sack up.

And I'm going to say the biggest struggle for this 9,000 square foot gym.

And you're.

This is the first time I've gone public with saying this, so you hope you feel privileged.

So they gave, they gave me an amount that you have to have with your first last month and some type of deposit.

And I was like, okay, I can clear out my cash in my safe.

I can clear out the savings in my two different bank accounts.