Think your podcast just needs consistent episodes and good guests? Think again. Podcast marketing expert Arielle Nissenblatt reveals why most business podcasts are doomed from the start - and it's not what you think. If you're treating your show like a content factory, churning out episodes without strategy, you're missing the real opportunity. Arielle shares the hidden difference between podcasters who grow and those who stagnate, plus the surprising truth about what podcast success actually looks like for business owners. Spoiler: it's probably not what you're measuring.

What You'll Learn

• Why the standard interview format kills engagement and what to do instead
• The critical mistake that separates growing podcasts from stagnant ones
• How to turn your expertise into derivative content that actually converts
• Why 200 downloads might be better than 5,000 for your business
• The simple practice that transforms amateur hosts into podcast pros
• How to stay responsive to your audience without drowning in feedback

Resources

Guest Links:

• Arielle's LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/arielle-nissenblatt-90348356/
• Arielle's Website: https://www.ariellenissenblatt.com/
• EarBuds Podcast Recommendations: https://newsletter.earbuds.audio/
• Trailer Park Podcast: https://trailerparkpodcast.crd.co/
• Feedback with Earbuds Podcast: https://earbuds.buzzsprout.com/

Episode Specific Resources:

• The Daily Zeitgeist - Daily news with comedy
• Up First (NPR) - Daily news podcast
• The Daily (New York Times) - Major daily news show
• Today Explained - Afternoon news podcast
• TBoy Daily (The Best One Yet Daily) - Business news
• The Puzzler - Daily puzzle/game show
• The Five Daily Trivia Questions - Trivia podcast
• Savage Love - Relationships advice by Dan Savage
• Good Hang by Amy Poehler - Celebrity interview show
• We're Doing The Wiz (Radiotopia Presents) - Current series Arielle's listening to
• Liberty Lost (Wondery) - Recent discovery, hosted by TJ Raphael
• The Ancients - History podcast
• Secretly Incredibly Fascinating - Educational show about "boring" topics
• Fresh Air with Terry Gross - Classic interview show mentioned as example

Podjunction Ecosystem:

• https://podjunction.com/
• Sadaf's LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sadafbeynon/

People that stall in their podcast growth are people that have set aside a specific

amount of time to work on their show and just wanna record those episodes, get them

edited, and get them out there, and then do nothing with the data that they have.

I would say it's really all about emulating what you see that is

successful and putting yourself in your listener's shoes, which means

probably being a listener yourself.

Hey there.

This is Podjunction podcast, the show where business leaders share

how they use podcasting to grow, connect, and build their brands.

Today I'm talking to Arielle Nissenblatt podcast marketing

powerhouse, community builder and voice behind some of the most exciting

things happening out there in audio.

She's the founder of EarBuds Podcast Collective, host of Trailer Park, and

Feedback with Earbuds and a fierce advocate for podcast discoverability.

Sorry, almost lost my words there.

Ariel.

Welcome to the show.

Thank you for having me.

So cool to hear the way that you, um, have decided that I bring

value to the podcast industry.

I, I love that.

Oh, you're very welcome.

There is no doubt about it.

So, Ariel, I wanted to ask you why podcasting?

So you've built a career around championing podcasts.

How did this journey start for you?

I love listening to podcasts.

Uh, first and foremost, I'm a listener.

I wake up every day and I listen to podcasts.

I, it's the morning here in the US where we're recording, and before I got to

you, I'd already listened to two hours of podcasts and I. Do that because I

genuinely love keeping up with the news, keeping up with my favorite comedians,

keeping up with, I don't know, the latest serialized stories by way of audio.

Mm-hmm.

And I also do that because I wanna know what's out there so that I

can recommend it to other people.

And so that if I'm working with creators, I can tell them what kinds

of shows they maybe should model their productions after or maybe

they should be collaborating with.

So I, I, I do it both because it.

It empowers me.

It invigorates me, but also because it helps me stay on top of

everything that's going on, um, in the world and in my professional,

in my professional, uh, experience.

Um, I first discovered podcasts kind of later in life in the sense that like I

wasn't really listening to public radio growing up or talk radio or anything

like that, so I didn't really have the background of like, let me listen for.

Education or for entertainment, like I knew a lot of people did.

Um, I, I listened to the radio, but when I discovered podcasts, uh, right

after college, um, I was able to.

Tune my brain in, in a way that I was not able to beforehand with writing

or even with video, um, or reading rather, or video for learning purposes.

And it kind of set me on this path to want to relearn everything by

way of ears, by way of my ears, and also to help other people do that.

If that was.

Something that was gonna be helpful to them.

So I, that's what got me started on the, the audio journey and then eventually

led to a number of different jobs.

And overall just being an advocate for creators in the space.

That's great.

Thank you so much for sharing, Ariel.

I'm really intrigued.

So you're use, so you listen to, you've listened to, um, two hours

of podcast this morning already.

So one is for research purposes, one is just because you love it.

How do you figure out which podcasts you wanna research?

Like how, how do you go about that?

What's the process behind that?

so every day I listen to.

The same few daily podcasts that, you know, update every day because

it's about the news or it's about something new that happens every day.

For example, I always listen to a show called The Daily Zeitgeist,

which is just going through the news, but with a comedian.

I always listen to up first from NPR to know.

The top three news stories of the day here in the us, uh, and internationally,

but with a US focused lens.

Um, I always listen to, uh, the daily, uh, actually I lied.

I, I listen to the daily.

Sometimes I listen to the daily based on the, the.

The title, but for years I was a completist.

I listened to every single episode.

Um, I then in the afternoon, I always listened to Today Explained,

which is another news podcast.

Um, and there are a few more daily shows that I listen to, like, um, T Boy

Daily, which is the best one yet daily.

Um, it's about like business news and things like that.

Um.

And I, I, I also, I'm going on for a long time, but this really

is how many podcasts I listen to.

I, I listen to a show called The Puzzler, which is a daily puzzle show.

It's a game show, uh, 15 minutes each day with a guest.

Um, and then there is a show called The Five Daily Trivia Questions,

which I'll listen to for another piece of entertainment here and there.

Um, and then.

So those are my dailies that I kind of just keep up with.

And then there I have my weeklies that I, I keep up with.

So I listen to on the day that they drop or shortly thereafter.

Today on the day we're recording is Tuesday.

So it's a great day for podcast drops.

Um, Savage Love is a show that I've been listening to for like 10 years.

It's a, um.

Dating and relationships advice column.

Um, turned into a podcast by Dan Savage.

Uh, good hang by Amy.

Poer Drops today, Tuesdays, and that's a great show.

I always love finding out who she selects to be on the show.

Um, wow.

Today is Idris Elba.

I just found out, um, I just clicked and found out.

Um, and then, you know, so today's Tuesday, tomorrow's Wednesday, I'll have

those Wednesday drops, uh, and then.

I'm always trying to listen to a series that's out, whether that series was

dropped, uh, all at once, and then I'll maybe listen to it on the weekend or, uh,

it's dropping weekly, in which case I'll listen to it on the day that it drops.

And right now the series that I'm listening to is called

We're Doing The Wiz, um, which is from Radiotopia Presents.

Great show about the high school that Ian and the other co-host went to, um, that.

When they were, when they were in high school in 2006, they did a

presentation of The Wiz, which is, um, the Wizard of Oz. But it was created

from like, uh, the perspective of, um.

The black community, and it was put on Broadway, um, with like very

famous black creators and performers.

And the, the high school that they went to was a predominantly white school.

And it's kind of talking about how, um, I. How confusing this whole thing was.

And in retrospect, was it okay that we did The Wiz and how did we make sure

that we had the right lead for the play?

Anyway, it's kind of like an oral history retelling of them doing The Wiz in 2006.

So that's what I'm listening to now.

Um, so really all over the place people try to ask me like, do

you listen about specific topics?

No, I listen about every topic

I guess you need to for research, right?

So you can recommend and better understand what's happening out there.

So I guess from all of that, what have you seen podcasting do for other creators

or businesses that's often overlooked?

actually do a lot of work with creators, uh, sorry.

I actually do a lot of work with, um, business leaders to make

podcasts and the number one thing that is popping up lately when I'm

having discussions with them about.

You know, what should, we're developing their show, what should their podcast

look and feel like, and what, what kind of strengths should it play on?

Um, is there's a long game of the content that you make beyond just

the release of the weekly episode.

So, um, I work with a lot of people who are, consider themselves thought leaders

or are considered thought leaders or.

Are CEOs or heads of whatever their organization is, and they

are mostly focused on putting content out regularly because they

have been told that they have to.

I think this is like one of the number one things that comes up is like, I know

I should be posting on LinkedIn more.

I know I should be doing this.

I know I should do that, but I don't know what to post.

Um, and so I work with a lot of those people.

To turn their expertise into something that is digestible for folks listening.

And then we can also take that content and make clips out of it and make really

nice, um, two paragraph posts on LinkedIn about it that have a really great question

at the end that makes somebody ponder and ultimately leads back to, uh, people

understanding that you are an expert in this and they are the person that that.

They're gonna think of that you are the person that they're gonna think

of when they need an expert on the topic that you're an expert on.

So I think to answer your original question,

what a podcast can do for a business really is if done right,

a lot more than just a weekly drop of, uh, quote unquote content.

There's.

So much more that can be grouped together beforehand and used to ultimately point

people back to who you are, that you are an expert in this thing, and then keep

that going for a long time if the content is done right and not just, um, falling

under the trap of what a lot of people fall under, which is like, let me just

make a chat show with people that, um.

I talk to, uh, you know, other peers, um, some of my clients, things like that.

It's just not gonna cut it anymore, but we can get a little bit

more creative with it and we can especially get more creative with the

derivative content that comes from it.

Like the clips and the videos and the this and the that.

Yeah.

So how should business leaders be thinking about reframing podcasting?

So it's more than just a weekly episode drop or a content channel.

Yeah.

I mean.

There's a number of things, like, I'll give a few examples that I'll

make up off the top of my head.

So excuse if they're not like, um, perfect examples, but hey, like,

somebody might f fit into this.

Okay?

So say you are a a, a solopreneur, I usually hate that port Manto, but say

you are a solo entrepreneur and um, your.

Business is that you help people when they want to pivot their careers.

You know that you had an experience where you had a big pivot in your career.

You decided one day that you don't wanna do what you were doing for 20

years and now you're doing something else and you kind of figured out a

formula to, to help people, uh, do the same, to to figure out what really

energizes them and then to figure out.

What kind of job that they should go after, or what kind of business

they should start for themselves.

And so you write on LinkedIn or you have a blog, or you do a lot of

one-on-one consultations with people where you talk about these things.

And of course, over time you have built up a lot of.

Expertise on the topic.

A lot of experience, a lot of stories to share.

So the easy thing to do would be, let me have a client on my show, or, you know,

the easiest thing for you to do would be to have a client on your show, um,

to talk to them about their journey, to talk to 'em about their pivot and to.

Ask them about best, best practices, um, and maybe to share afterwards a little

bit of a, uh, you know what, before I worked with them, they were like this.

And after I worked with them, they were like this, because that acts as

a really nice advertising tool for you and for your, um, for your business.

And that could be really, really effective if it's done right, but.

It can be expensive to be really effective if done right, because I

highly recommend adding, you know, narrative flourishes to make sure that

you're recapping in the right places and making sure that you are engaging the

listener throughout the conversation.

There's probably gonna need to be some sound design, things like that,

but simply formatting your show a little bit differently will add an

element of excitement to it that.

You don't even necessarily need these fancy narrative tactics and sound effects

and sound design in order to achieve.

So what I mean by that is like first and foremost, your show needs to have a

bunch of elements that make it up, right?

You need your intro, you need your outro, you need the meat of the show.

Maybe you have a few other segments throughout.

And so I'm a big fan of figuring out what those segments are, naming

those segments, and then over time, figuring out which segments hit.

With your audience.

So for a show like this, with this, um, career counselor, maybe what you do is you

look, maybe you have a segment every week where you look at famous career pivots

and you do two minutes on a famous career pivot from throughout business history.

So maybe you look at, I, I won't be able to, I. Let's say, let's say Andrew

Carnegie, before he got into whatever he got into, was into something else.

So then let's look at that pivot.

Um, and we do two minutes on that, and it's just a really interesting historical

thing that we then use to frame the conversation that we're gonna have.

Um, and then maybe at the end of the show, you do top three

takeaways that your guest submits.

So that means on your, um.

Guest form beforehand, you're gonna say, we're gonna talk about X, Y, and

Z. And at the end, just make sure that you have your, your three takeaways,

because I really like to make sure I give concrete, um, next steps

for the people that are listening.

So already that show without needing to, uh, do too much, other than mixing

together a few different segments is much more interesting than just

like, hi, welcome to the show.

How are you?

How are you?

Your journey is so fascinating.

Tell us about it.

You know, I think it does a little bit more than like, I, I think it,

it drives us to need to pay attention because we never know, um, what

the segment is gonna teach us and.

The other cool thing about that is that you can switch around where

the segments are within the show so that your listener is never like,

okay, next is this, next is this.

You can say, we're, we're trying something different this time

and we're doing this upfront.

And the reason for that is because we found out that a lot of people listen to

this part of the show and then drop off by the end, and we wanna make sure that

you get the, the, the full show's worth.

Mm-hmm.

So in essence, what you're saying is keep it varied enough

to keep your audience engaged.

Yes.

Um, I think very few shows that are straight up.

Hi.

Welcome to the show.

Let me interview you.

You about your life or about this specific time in your life are great and like

a few of them off the top of my head.

Fresh Air with Terry Gross.

She's a great interviewer.

She's been doing it for a really long time and she gets guests that you really want

to hear their story, but not everybody.

Knows how to tell their story in a way that Terry Gross can pull out of you.

And not every interviewer knows how to ask the questions to get those things

done, and therefore, the typical interview formats don't always work for people.

But if you can have these very specific questions that people need to prepare

for a little bit when they become a guest on your show, when they come to

be a guest on your show, I think it makes it a little bit more engaging.

I think it makes it a lot more engaging for the listener.

So, as a host, if you're, if you're helping business leaders understand how

to have a good podcast, how do you, how do you coach them to be a good host?

Well, the first thing I say is that they should be listening to other podcasts.

That's such a big one, and it's hard, and a lot of people who make podcasts don't

necessarily, they're not necessarily huge students of the craft before

they jump into it for themselves and.

I'm not saying you need to listen to five hours of podcasts every day, but

I am saying that you should probably select a few shows that you listen

to that are varied in their tone and their texture also in their topic.

So maybe if you are a, a business owner and you have an ice cream shop

and you wanna make a podcast about ice cream or about like local, uh, business

ownership or something like that, um.

Maybe you listen to another food related podcast, maybe you

listen to another local podcast.

Maybe you listen to, um, another show about entrepreneurship that is huge.

And, um, you know, you just, you, you like it because it fuels your

knowledge of what you do, but also because you eventually might use some

of the tactics that they use to, um.

Interview their guest or to keep the audience engaged.

So I, the first thing I do is recommend keeping up with a few of those shows,

selecting a few of those shows, checking in with them and paying

attention to not just their content that is, that you can hear, but also

how are they naming their episodes?

What do, what does their cover art look like?

Do they have an Instagram associated with their, um.

With their podcast, are they regularly posting on Instagram?

How are they interacting with their fans?

If their fans are leaving comments and ratings and reviews?

Pay attention to all that kind of stuff and, and use that to model

how you wanna make your show.

Um, so that's the first thing.

Mm-hmm.

And I forgot your question, but I can give another example if you ask it again.

Uh, the question was, I can't remember how I asked it actually,

but something along the lines of how do you help or how do you coach the

business leaders to be good hosts?

Yeah.

Yeah.

So that's definitely my number one.

Um, a another thing is

I think you need to get into the practice of being transparent with your listeners

and not being afraid to tell them that you made a mistake on a previous episode.

And what I mean by that is, you know, you can try out a bunch of different segments.

Try them out for 12 episodes at the end of your season, uh, your 12 episode season.

And this is a suggestion because there's no real number that

needs to constitute a season.

You can make that up.

Uh, let's say you decide that your season is 12 episodes.

At the end of your 12 episodes, you're gonna take a three

week break because you wanna.

Prepare for next season.

You wanna record a bunch of episodes.

You wanna look at your, your, uh, hosting, uh, provider's data and see which episodes

did better than the others and make some educated guesses as to why that

one popped off, but that one didn't.

When you come back with your next season, you can say.

You can very transparently say, listeners, I'm back with a new season.

We're trying a few things differently this time because the data showed me that X,

Y, and Z. And that doesn't necessarily mean that you made a mistake, but it does

mean that you are taking this information and you are applying it to the future and

you are making changes based off of that.

And I think what that does for you, first of all is make a better show

for your listeners, but also endears you to them because you're willing

to admit that things could be better.

So I think that's a really big part of it, is knowing that the podcast landscape

allows for you to be extremely flexible and make mistakes, change those things,

and then say that you change those things.

But I also really think it's important to say that you change those things.

'cause if you just try to do a new thing and not tell your listeners

why the new people who are new to your show, they don't care.

They don't know.

But the, but the people who have been listening for a while might be a

little bit like, huh, that's different.

Mm-hmm.

And you can very easily say.

To your existing listeners and to the people who are there for

the first time, you can let them in on this thing that has changed

without alienating one or the other.

There's ways to speak to both crowds at the same time.

Yeah.

And I love what you're saying 'cause it's really about keeping your listeners, your

audience in the forefront of your mind.

So as if they were sitting in front of you, how would you communicate to

them and let them know what's going on.

Um, so there, there's a few ways to do it.

Um, on your show, you can communicate to them.

Uh, it depends what kind of show you have and what kind of infrastructure you have

that allows for you to speak to them.

But I think in many cases, especially in business podcasts, your format.

Is loose enough that you can, at the beginning of the episode, say,

you know, before we get to today's guest, a a few housekeeping notes up

top, you know, and then you can kind of share a little bit from there.

Or maybe you always start with a monologue and that this time the

monologue includes this, this piece.

Maybe you at the end of the show, like to do your business bulletin.

And then at the, in the business bulletin, this can be one of those points.

Uh, you could also.

If you capture email subscribers and send out regular correspondence

via a newsletter or something, you can put that information in there.

You can also ask for feedback in your newsletter.

Same with, um, social media.

Maybe you're in touch with your listeners via Instagram or LinkedIn or Facebook

or TikTok or whatever the situation is.

That's another way to let your listeners know.

Your show notes are another place you, you've got a lot of real

estate where you can blast this message out or these messages out.

To as many people as will listen to them.

Yeah.

No, that's cool.

So what would you say separates those?

Um, sorry, let me backtrack.

So from the people that you have coached what do you think separates

those who grow from grow in their podcasting and those who stall?

People that stall in their podcast growth are people that have set aside

a specific amount of time to work on their show and just wanna record those

episodes, get them edited, and get them out there, and then do nothing with those,

with the, with the data that they have.

So.

It's very tempting to say, okay, I'm gonna spend the next two days in a

studio interviewing as many people as I can, get those things done.

And then for the beginning of each episode, I'm gonna pre-record an intro and

I'm gonna, I'm gonna pre-record an outro and somebody's gonna stitch those things

together and then they're gonna go up.

It's very, very tempting to do that.

And if you know your style, if you've been doing it for a while,

that might be an okay thing to do.

But if you're just at the beginning and you're kind of trying to figure out.

What your style is, what resonates with you?

What, what resonates with your guests and with your audience.

I recommend maybe still spending those two days in the studio recording those

interviews, but then for each of your intros and outros, recording those

afterwards or recording those closer to the time that that episode is gonna drop,

so that you can in real time respond to listeners who are coming in and.

Enjoying your content or not enjoying your content, and you can respond

to them and you can say, uh, we got really great feedback on our first

few episodes, and therefore we decided to switch something up for our third.

Or maybe it means that you're only gonna record a few episodes at the

beginning, and then afterwards you're gonna come back and say, um, you know,

we have a bunch more episodes recorded.

But I actually think I need to call up my, my, um.

My interviewees and ask them this one question that the, the listeners

have been clamoring for each time.

You know, so there's, I think being, uh, making sure that you're flexible in

the post-production process is really important, and that definitely is

something that sets apart the people that grow from the people that stay stagnant.

So, um, if you're, if you are being mechanical in your approach towards

podcasting is what's gonna help, is, is what's gonna make you stall.

But if you're being present and, um.

Responsive to your audience is where, where the growth is gonna come from?

Is that what you're saying?

Yeah, I think responsive is a, is a good way to put it.

And like I said, it's, it's easy to say, especially if you are.

Let's say the personal assistant to the person who's gonna be

recording the podcast, and that person does not have a lot of time.

It's very easy to be like, okay, I can get my boss in the studio for two days and

that's it, and this is what they're gonna record, and they don't really have the

time or energy to put much more into it.

In that case, you, you have to do what you have to do.

And maybe there are some other ways to build in flexibility to it.

Maybe you have them record ahead of time, a few different intros and outros that you

can, that you can put on and, and take off based on, um, feedback that you get from

your listeners eventually down the line.

Um.

But for the most part, if you can find a way to get your very busy boss or

yourself, um, to have a little bit more time in the studio, have a little

bit more time looking at the numbers, looking at the feedback, and responding

to those things, I think the reason that that helps you grow is because

your listeners are being acknowledged and that offers you a little bit more

of a personal experience with them.

And.

This is all with the caveat of your show might not have

5,000 downloads per episode.

It might not have 500 downloads per episode, but 200 downloads per episode

might be enough for your podcast to be a successful podcast, especially

if it's a niche business podcast.

And I think a lot of people also, this is, this is another thing that separates, um.

People that grow from people that don't grow.

You have to figure out what growth means to you.

Is do you need, do you need 5,000 downloads an episode?

Do you need to be growing 5% episode over episode or can you stay the same

but your engagement grows or can you stay the same but you get a new client

this time by way of your podcast?

So I think people that give up quit after five episodes because they don't,

they're not growing episode over episode in the sheer numbers that's gonna

stop you from growing in other ways.

Yeah.

So, um, just thinking about growth a little bit more, what are some underused

or maybe misunderstood podcast growth tactics, whether that's in downloads or in

clients, um, that actually really do work.

There are some quick and easy things that you should do at the start of

making your show, that won't make your show grow per se, but are sort of you.

You gotta check these boxes.

So for example, I. Your show should be everywhere, and that should be a

given because your RSS feed should allow your show to be everywhere.

But.

You should then claim your show on the different podcast

listening apps that are out there.

If you're able to.

A lot of these podcast listening apps, also called Pod catchers, you know,

apple, Spotify, but then also tons of smaller ones like Overcast, good Pods,

pocket Cast, cast box fountain there.

There's so many of them and there's new ones coming up a all the time.

A lot of those apps allow you to go in and verify that the show is yours.

So usually you make a free account on their, their web platform and.

You verify your RSS feed.

So it'll send you an email and then you say, yes, this is mine.

And then you're often able to add some sort of personalization to that page.

So maybe you can put your, uh, you can fill out your bio there, or if

people are commenting on your page, some of these apps allow for comments.

You can then go and.

Respond as you, so that you're interacting with your audience that way.

So I think this is an important thing to do a, because you're interacting

with your audience, um, and also because a lot of these apps allow you

to apply to be featured, but they'll only do that if you have taken the time

to, you know, show that you are also on that app and active on that app.

So, good Pods, for example, allows you to make some lists and those

list lists could be featured.

Um, it, they also have, uh.

Uh, a platform to feature recent episodes, and that's done by

the people behind the app.

And if they see that you're active on the app, they're more

likely to wanna help you out.

Pocket casts, you can't claim your show, but you can join a newsletter that they

send out once a month where they ask for recommendations and you can recommend your

own show and see if that fits into one of their upcoming recommendation lists.

So a lot of this is being active in the community and

then figuring out from there.

How you can tap into these existing resources.

Um, I feel you asked about underutilized ways to grow.

I think utilized is people set up cross promotions, people set up lots of,

um, opportunities to get their show in front of other people, uh, that

are already listening to podcasts.

That's really big, but a lot of people don't really think.

Too deeply about the shows that they are cross-promoting with or think too deeply

about the copy that they're reading or having read on their behalf, and therefore

the conversion is not super strong.

So this is again, where being a student of the craft comes into play.

Where have you heard a really successful cross promo a, a recommendation for

another show that you would love?

What about that recommendation for that show got you to then go check out that

show and how can you write in that style?

Hmm.

That and that, just like, I think if I had to ball up my advice into a, a, a, a nice

little cute ball, I would say it's really all about emulating what you see that is

successful and putting yourself in your listener's shoes, which means probably

be a li being a listener yourself.

I love that it also resonates back to what you were saying at the beginning where

you're doing your research, listening to all these different podcasts every day.

That makes a lot of sense that, you know, as you said, if you're a student of the

craft and you're a lot more in touch with what's happening and what's working.

Yeah, exactly.

Exactly.

I think, um, it's very hard to.

Especially if you don't start out as having podcasts in your regular

media rotation, it's very hard to jump in and make that happen.

Um, and I think if you are somebody who says, I know I need to listen to

our podcasts, but I don't really know how, here's a few things that, uh, have

helped some folks that I work with.

One is go for a walk every day and listen to podcasts.

Um.

Another thing is, you know, instead of listening to music when you do

the dishes, listen to a podcast.

Uh, and this, of course, I'm not saying replace your music habit.

People get, I, I, I, I like, don't really listen to that much music.

So, uh, when I do, it's like I listen to music today as opposed

to, I think everybody else is like, I listen to a podcast today anyway.

Um, another thing you can do that I've recently discovered is I have

like supercharged my listening capabilities because I now, if I, at

the end of the day, whereas a lot of people like sit on their couch and

wanna read a book, I can listen to a podcast while playing, uh, like very

mindless mobile game on my phone.

So the game is not really like what I'm focused on.

The podcast is what I'm focused on, but I'm now able to do that

in bed before I go to sleep.

Whereas in the past, like I couldn't just like.

Listen to a podcast and do nothing because my mind would wander.

But this allows me to do that.

That's awesome.

Arielle, one last question before we wrap up.

So just going back to what you said right at the beginning about

listening to different podcasts, what's a podcast you've discovered

recently that's made you go, wow.

Okay.

Love this question.

Thank you so much for asking.

Um, so I mentioned The Wiz, which is making me go Wow.

Um, but another show that's been around for a while that is making me go, wow.

Is, let's see.

Do you mind if I'm going to my listening

no, go for it.

Okay.

This is a show, um, from Wondery.

So it's a pretty big show and it's doing very well.

And it was recently on, uh, a bo, a billboard at Times Square.

It's called Liberty Lost.

The host is TJ Raphael, who's behind a lot of really amazing

serialized podcasts over the years.

Um, it's about this basically.

The idea that a lot of evangelical teens when they get pregnant, and this is still

happening to this day, instead of having an abortion because they won't have

an abortion, they go to like unmarried teenage mother homes for the duration of

their pregnancy, and then they're often.

Very much encouraged to give their baby up for adoption even if they don't want to.

And it's kind of profiling a few different women now, women who have

gone through this experience and it's just really eyeopening and.

Something that I just, you know, had no idea about before, which is again, one of

the reasons that I love podcasts so much.

It just opens my mind to so many new things.

Um, another one is called The Ancients, which is a history show.

I love history podcast.

I listen to history podcasts all the time, and I just, I love

this show is done really well.

It's an interview show.

I recently listened to an episode, um, on the rise of Nero.

So he really goes into every single topic with really cool experts.

So.

All over the place.

And that both of those, both of those, no Liberty loss is new and the

ancients has been around for a while.

Hmm.

And what, what is it?

Is it the, the content itself?

Is it the titles?

What, like I I is the whole experience?

Yeah, it's different for both of those.

For Liberty Loss, I actually was not gonna listen because I don't know,

I was like, okay, another abortion related story, I can't take it anymore.

There's too many, it's like, it's so easy to skip over a lot of these things,

but I often find that if I've previously been like, yeah, I'm gonna skip over

this, I then listen to it and I'm like, damn, I understand why this did well.

That happened to me with Serial, the podcast that came out in 2014

that like really started the boom of PO of True Crime podcasts.

I really did not listen at first, and then when I did, I was like, damn.

I've been missing out.

Um.

Yeah, so I, I think sometimes it's the storytelling, sometimes it's

the music that keeps you engaged.

Sometimes it's the story itself.

You know, the story is just really, really compelling.

And they got, they found a great story and they're telling it well.

Um, and then sometimes it's like, I, I listen to a lot of shows that are

like one-off, uh, like I show, I listen to a show called Secretly Incredibly

Fascinating, which every episode they choose a different topic that might

seem boring or kind of plain on the.

On the surface and then they dig into it and it's like, here's why AKIs

are secretly incredibly fascinating.

AKIs are, uh, a marsupial animal that I had no idea existed.

And now I think they're fascinating.

So

Amazing.

That's awesome.

Ariel, this has been such fun.

Thank you so much for sharing all that gold

Thank you for having me.

Really, really fun.

You're very welcome.

Before you go though, if people want to follow along with your

work or get in touch, where's the best place for them to do that?

LinkedIn is the best place to do

that.

Uh, Arielle Nisenblatt,

if you search for me.

Um, and also I have a

website, ariellenisenblatt.com.

But LinkedIn is probably the best way to read what I'm writing, see

what I'm posting, and get in touch.

Brilliant, and to everyone tuning in, thanks for being here with us.

You'll find all the

links that Arielle just mentioned

right there in the episode description.

If podcasting is something you've been thinking about or wondering how it could

work for your business, I hope today's conversation's given you some clarity or

maybe even a push to dig a little deeper.

Thanks again for listening, and bye for now.