You don't need a bigger following. You need one real conversation with the right person.

That's the uncomfortable truth new coaches avoid, because it's easier to post another Instagram Reel than to sit across from someone and ask what they're actually struggling with. Adam sits down with Candy Motzek, a coach for coaches who left a high-pressure corporate leadership role (and a severe burnout that once made her forget her own phone number) to build a business helping professionals and senior leaders become coaches without quitting their identity in the process.

Candy's story doesn't start with a business plan. It starts on a cruise ship headed toward Cape Horn, terrified of waters she'd built up in her head as dangerous, only to sail through them flat calm and sunny. That single moment cracked open a bigger question: how many other things had she talked herself out of before ever testing whether the fear was real? Two weeks later she was in her first coach training.

What makes this conversation useful isn't the origin story, though. It's what Candy does with new coaches once they've made the leap. She doesn't send them straight to social media. She has them run a research project or survey with the exact people they want as clients, which does two things at once: it hands the new coach language and authority they didn't have to invent, and it puts them in direct conversation with future clients before they've built anything to sell.

What you'll learn:

• Why the fear you're avoiding is usually bigger in your head than in reality, and how to test it instead of managing around it
• How to build authority as a brand new coach using research conversations and surveys instead of a following
• Why one-on-one clients are the right starting point before group programs or masterminds
• The real math behind coaching pricing, and why your old salary has nothing to do with what you should charge
• Why "coach goes first" isn't a slogan, it's the actual reason coaches need coaches
• How to reconnect with what you loved before titles and responsibility buried it

Candy's clearest reframe: most new coaches think they need permission or visibility before anyone will pay them. What actually signs clients is a real, curious conversation with someone who already trusts you, which means the exposure-first approach most new coaches default to is solving the wrong problem entirely.

Notable quote:

"If you believe that people should pay you to be a coach, then you should be investing in your own coaching too." — Candy Motzek

Guest bio:

Candy Motzek is a coach for coaches who helps professionals and senior leaders build coaching businesses without abandoning their existing expertise. She hosts the podcast She Coaches Coaches and previously spent years in corporate leadership as an engineer before a severe burnout redirected her path.

Resources mentioned:

• She Coaches Coaches podcast (Candy Motzek's show)
• Candy's free 8-part mini training: candysfreegift.com
• ILC community: ilovecoachingco.com
• Instagram: @ilovecoachingco / @adamrroach / @thejesswebber
• YouTube: youtube.com/@ilovecoachingco

Timestamps:

[00:00] Intro, welcoming Candy

[00:39] Candy's origin story: corporate leadership to coaching

[02:53] The burnout that made her forget her own phone number

[06:02] The Antarctica cruise and the fear that wasn't real

[08:07] Coaching professionals and senior leaders through the "real job" stigma

[12:44] Finding purpose: "coming home to who you are"

[15:10] Building authority through research conversations and surveys

[17:17] How to reconnect with what lights you up

[19:36] Why one-on-one comes before group coaching

[23:18] Pricing: business owner math vs. employee wage

[26:49] Why coaches need coaches

[29:17] Where to find Candy: She Coaches Coaches + free gift

Join the community:

Ready to build a coaching business you're proud of? The ILC community is where coaches go to stop guessing and start growing. ilovecoachingco.com/discover

Candy, I am so excited to have you on the I Love Coaching podcast.

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I've been looking forward to this because you and I had a great conversation on your

podcast.

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And now it's my turn to return the favor.

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Welcome to the I Love Coaching Podcast Show.

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thanks so much for having me.

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And I love the title.

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And yes, we both love coaching.

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So great to be here.

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do.

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So let's dive right into it.

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I want you to share with the listeners who you are, where you are.

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We always start off with the question, you were born and then what happened.

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So you can tell us, you can take us back as far as you want to.

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It can be yesterday or you can be all the way from childhood.

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You are leading here.

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Yeah.

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So my name is Candy Motzek, and I am a coach for coaches.

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And this is really fun speaking to a peer, somebody who else who just loves coaching,

wants coaches to be successful.

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And that's my thing too.

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my story.

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I thought of being a coach.

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I was a leader in corporate for years and years.

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we did great work.

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It was a great team, fabulous company.

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And

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And then I realized that I was really out of alignment.

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And that showed up in a very severe case of burnout.

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to the point that I couldn't remember my phone number.

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And I'm an engineer originally by trade, so that's kind of a thing.

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that burnout led to some really interesting things, and most notably what happened is I

was on a cruise ship and we were going to Antarctica, and I was freaked out.

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Like I was like, the weather's gonna be terrible.

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It's gonna be huge waves, it's gonna be really dangerous.

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And it came time for the circumnavigating, like going past Cape Horn, you know, some of

the most dangerous waters in the world.

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And the day came about, it was sunny, it was 70 degrees, and it was flat calm.

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And we went, and I'm sipping coffee on the deck.

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doing this what is normally a momentous journey.

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And I realized I'd been thinking of being a coach and I'd been so scared about what was

going to happen.

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And all of that anticipation didn't matter.

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Just like I was so scared to be in those waters.

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And it was flat calm and sunny, sipping coffee on the deck, not even wearing a jacket.

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So it just shows you how often we get in our own way of the dreams that we have.

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And so that's that was how I started.

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It was like, wait a minute, that's not necessarily true.

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And so I don't have to decide to be afraid first.

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I can decide to be courageous and curious and see what happens and then get to do amazing

things.

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Hmm, I love that story.

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I I want to go back to this this heavy, I mean that's heavy, burnout.

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That you were so burned out, that you were so in this space of dunzoism, we'll call it,

that you forgot your own phone number.

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I mean what what

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Tell us about that experience because here's what we know.

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We as coaches, we know that there are people right now in that exact same space that are

considering doing something else and won't, and they'll they'll they will stay there in

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that space of I can't even remember my number, but I'm too afraid to go jump the fence.

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Tell us about that time.

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Yeah.

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And I think for so many people, burnout specifically, creeps up on us, right?

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It's like it's just a little bit by a little bit and a little bit, and you think you're

under control, and then you realize, wait a minute, I'm having a tough time here.

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Then all of a sudden you're holding on by your fingernails, and then you're holding on by

one fingernail, and then it's gone.

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But because we don't have a great perspective.

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on who we are or what we're doing.

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And we're so busy um keeping up, especially, you know, in my situation in corporate,

really, you know, high high stress environment, lots of stuff going on, lots of changes

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and um initiatives happening that I was leading.

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You forget who you are.

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And so this this thing of when you forget who you are, it is really easy to lose your way.

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And that for me is

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one of the drivers that I see with the people that I speak to who've experienced burnout

this I I kind of I lost myself.

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I forgot who I was.

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I put things on, you know, on the in the forefront.

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I made things at a priority that didn't really matter to me, didn't really support me or

my family or my relationships or my mission in life.

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And so we sort of, when we forget, we get to know that we can also remember.

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And I think that's really important that we can remember who we are and that it doesn't

take much to remember, right?

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Like our deepest self wants to be known.

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And so it's there at a moment's notice.

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And I just hope that that kind of is uh provides a little bit of hope for somebody who

might be struggling as well.

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It doesn't have to be a difficult journey to find that, you know, who you are again.

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Mm, that's really impactful.

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I like that language, perspective on our own identity.

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And it's not even the word identity there that is the key word, it's perspective, right?

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We really pay attention to that perspective.

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So, so take us through that with you.

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Um, this perspective, right?

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You're you're in this corporate world, and and this perspective hits you, right?

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And this perspective hits you not only from the fact that you can't remember your phone

number, but now you're going on this cruise.

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And the cruise is going to go through a very highly volatile, we'll say area that could be

life or death, right?

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It could be.

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And then we're this in our head here.

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And you get through it smooth sailing, pun intended.

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What perspective did that bring to the identity of Candy at that moment in time to say,

I'm gonna go see this coach space.

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I'm gonna go, I'm gonna go jump into it.

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Yeah.

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So it was the identity shift and the perspective shift was really how many other things

have I been too scared to try?

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And you know, it's not that I I was leading a mediocre life or an unfulfilled life.

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I was taking chances, but not the risks that really mattered to me, not the risks that

made me a fuller human being.

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So it's this.

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realizing how much I had scared myself and then wondering, well, gosh, then what's

possible?

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What what could be possible?

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Now, because so many of my um peers and my direct reports had said, Candy, you should be a

coach.

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And I kept hearing them and hearing them and hearing them.

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And so that's when I started to get curious and I really looked into it.

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And truthfully within um returning from that cruise,

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It was within two weeks that I attended my first coach training.

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There was one spot available in the training that I took.

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I took it and that's it.

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Like it just once the pieces came together, that perspective, then the stars really

aligned.

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That's good.

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I I love the introspective there of the question.

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What else have I been saying no to that I've actually missed so much more?

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Because there's so many listeners right now that are asking themselves that exact same

question because it was prompted by you.

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That's so good.

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How many other things are you missing because you are afraid?

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Mm.

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So good.

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Okay, well.

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Let's fast forward to now.

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And I'm so glad you had those moments.

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I'm so glad that you stepped into that two-week training and jumped into it and said, Oh,

I like this space a lot.

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You coach.

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Who do you coach?

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What do you coach?

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What's what's your what's your what's your process?

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Tell tell us everything about your coaching world because I'm so excited to hear all of

it.

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So um I coach professionals and senior leaders who want to be coaches.

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I help them get started, I help them build their business, sign clients, do all the

things.

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And the reason that it's that group of people, coaching is a wonderful industry, but

professionals and senior leaders coming into it, they're often feeling like, I really want

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to do this thing, but it's a little bit flaky.

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And so that

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perceived maybe I'm going to lose some of my expertise, the respect of my peers.

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My family might say, you're going to what?

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And so it's a tender time for them.

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And I've been there.

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And so it's a great group.

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And that's who I with.

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That's good.

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That's that's I I love that, um

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You know, I had when when I when I got out of college and played professional tennis and

had a college degree, and my first job was that of and someone answering the phones at a

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tennis club.

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And I'll never forget, my stepfather said, Hey, you can either stay there and never ask

for money, or you can come home and get a real job, right?

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And that's what I'm hearing you say right there is these these professionals and senior

leaders are stepping into a space that

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They don't believe is a quote unquote maybe real job, right?

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So how do you help them through that?

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Let's just go with that, their perspective, right?

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Because they're leaving what I like to call a container that is coming into now a space

where they are and their payoff is the value.

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How do you help that mindset step into that new identity space, which could be their

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True identity all along.

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Exactly.

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And we don't start by saying, hey, you should quit your fancy job, fancy title, and become

a coach full-time.

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Some of them want to, some of them, they're not ready for that yet.

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But coaching is often that really it's part of their purpose.

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They feel really drawn to having these conversations with people and helping people see

themselves in a new way.

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And so there is that draw.

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And so

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First I help them get in touch with that why is this meaningful to you?

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Like why do you want to do it?

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And to remind themselves that doing coaching is them saying yes to themselves, right?

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They've often been saying no to themselves.

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No, not until I get that VP role.

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No, not until I retire.

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You know, who knows what it is.

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But they get to say yes to themselves.

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I also remind them that they are multifaceted people.

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They get to be the physician and a coach.

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They get to be the engineer and a coach.

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They get to be the VP and the coach.

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They're not just one or the other.

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They're much more than that title.

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So that's the a little bit of the mindset shift for them.

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The other thing is the approach that I help them use is creating their own authority.

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And we do that either through a survey.

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On a topic that is deeply interesting to both them and their dream clients, or a research

conversations.

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So doing a series of interviews where they're talking to people who will be like their

dream clients and getting into really great conversations with them.

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So the fun thing about these either doing a survey, research project, whatever format they

decide to do, is that

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They're talking to the people that they would love to work with.

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They're really hearing their voice.

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They're hearing their challenges.

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And so when they gather that data together and create something with it, it's not just

them.

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They're saying, listen, I asked these questions and this is what you told me.

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And that really shifts their perspective.

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They really feel empowered then.

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Because now it's not just their opinion, right?

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It's their they've they've

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Gone and gathered these this information.

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It's pretty fun.

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Yeah, that's good.

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I want to go back to the the word use two words there that I absolutely actually three

words, but I want to dive into the word purpose.

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Right?

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So so you you help them identify this this purpose that they feel drawn to.

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What do you think, just from your experience with the coaches that you lead, what do you

think creates that, right?

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The the this this sense of purpose.

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That they're drawn to.

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And because they're coming from successful spaces, right?

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They're they're usually coming from successful spaces that maybe they've established

burnout or something, but they do feel that they're being drawn to something else.

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And then you help them establish that purpose, right?

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What what do you experience with them in that space of establishing and identifying that?

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Yeah, for them it's a feeling of coming home, coming home to who they are.

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Remembering that there is something about these deeper conversations and supporting people

and being of service that is deeply satisfying.

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And so yes, they're successful in their life.

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They've got the job, they've got the vacation home, they've got the car, you know, the

kids go to good schools, all of that stuff.

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And but that's an outer container, right?

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Like all that stuff is outside of you.

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And so who are you at your core?

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What really matters to you?

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And when you start to have allowed that into your life, nothing's gonna hold you back.

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Because now you've you're lit from within, right?

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Yeah, that's good.

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Gosh, that's so good.

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Okay, now let's go to the word authority, right?

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You use the word authority, you help these individuals who are multifaceted identify this

authority, right?

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That this, and you do it through uh research and conversations and and and surveys.

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When they find that, with the coaches that you coach, when they find that authority.

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Right.

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And I love some of your language here.

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Coming home, their service providers.

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Coming home is is that core about them.

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When they find this authority, and may maybe they've been, maybe they've had bosses

themselves for some times, right?

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What do you experience then when they when they feel this authority and they feel that

they these people will listen to them and actually pay them for their for their solutions?

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What do you experience with those coaches?

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So what I experience is a big smile.

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I'm like, yes, this is great.

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I'm so happy to see you doing your thing.

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What they experience is a funny word.

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I would say it's almost they relax.

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Because now they're not fighting, they're not proving, they're not defending, they're not

justifying.

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They get to just be.

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And you know, and we know that it's not what you do, but.

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Who you're being that draws that to you.

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And so when they can be relaxed, and yes, I'll use the word confident, but it's a

different kind of confidence.

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It's not a confident because you've achieved X, Y, Z.

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It's a self assured.

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You know, they can feel settled and self assured.

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And so for them, if you feel relaxed and you feel self assured, then inviting people to be

your clients, having those conversations, it's easy.

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Right?

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You're talking about stuff that's interesting that you know with people that you love.

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How could you fail?

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Right.

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Gosh, that is so good.

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okay, so good stuff.

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So let's let's pause there for a second.

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Cause that's all such good stuff.

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And I want to talk to the audience.

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If we're if we're listening, if if an audience member right now, because I I mean your

your language with the coming home, I mean, when they identify that purpose and that

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attaches to coming home, golly, Candy that is so good.

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What would you say to an audience member right now if they are saying, I want to come

home?

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I want to come home.

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What would you suggest that they go do if they're not in your world?

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Um, and they they just want to experience the clarity there of their purpose, finding that

purpose, coming home.

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So what I suggest is that coming home is natural, that it's not hard, that it is something

that is innate within you.

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It's just like, do you want to drink a glass of nice water?

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Yeah, of course.

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Coming home is sort of as difficult as that, assuming you have nice water in your life.

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And it's about getting a little bit quiet.

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I usually suggest people sort of

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Disenage from a lot of their electronics and get outside in nature and move their body,

whether it be a walk, whether it be a run, spend time outside, especially in the greenery,

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and allow yourself to get a little bit bored.

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Bored is good sometimes.

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And then remember the things that you love to do.

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You know, it's easy to say, what did you love to do as a kid?

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But it's not necessarily the exact thing that you love to do, but why did you like it?

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What was fun about it?

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You know, like I used to write as a kid, but it was like child writing, right?

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You know, copying words and stuff.

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But it was this idea about communicating and thinking about thoughts and, you know,

getting a perspective on things.

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And so it's like, what is the activity?

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And then why, what's the underneath thing about that?

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The other thing that I suggest is for people to go and have some darn fun, get creative,

do something different that takes you out of your zone.

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I have what my husband now says is like this growing shelf full of pottery.

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I started doing pots on the wheels, you know, like throwing ceramics on the wheel.

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And I'm terrible, but it's super fun.

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So you do those things and you remember to not take yourself so seriously.

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And guess what?

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Pretty soon you're gonna find those hot tracks.

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So good.

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Gosh, that is so good.

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Such good language here.

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Okay, so let's let's move on now.

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Okay, so they they've they've found themselves, right?

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They they've come home, they understand their purpose, they are understand their

authority, they are now relaxed, they're self-assured.

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And now they have to go find a client or two.

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Or or or that approach, right?

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But they still have their

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what I call a survivor job, right?

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So they still have this Yeah.

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Day job, survivor job.

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Yeah.

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Um what do you say to those coaches?

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It's like 'cause some of them will I mean you've experienced it probably too as I do when

we coach coaches, like, okay, I've got all my clarity here.

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I know my my I know the purpose and I know what I can go help people do.

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And we go right to people who don't know us.

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Right?

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We go right to the social media world.

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We go

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We go where we think we have to have quote unquote exposure, right?

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And that's it, I know it probably drives you crazy because it definitely drives me crazy.

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But what do you say to this person now?

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Right?

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You're coaching this coach, they've got clarity, they understand their authority, they're

relaxed, they've gone out and played, they've thrown some clay.

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And what do we do?

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What do we go do now, coach?

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Well, how do I go get a client?

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Well, most of them have already got clients by that point.

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And that is because when they were doing that research project, it was something they were

very interested in, talking to the kind of people that they love to work with.

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And so they're in curious mode.

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And then maybe they heard, oh, I'm having issues with burnout or my relationship or

whatever.

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And they've asked the question and they just said, Well, would you like to have a

conversation?

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I could possibly help you with that.

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And because the vibe that you're in is already curious and coach-like and focused on that

person, many of those people will say, Yeah, I'd love to have a conversation.

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Then when they're ready, they can come and be a client.

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You know, you have that conversation.

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So for the most part, I've found that they've already signed clients by that point.

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And I agree about this.

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visibility, you know, getting exposure thing, you know.

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People won't sign you as with you as a client or a coach just because they saw you in

passing on the Instagram feed.

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It's only when they feel connected to you.

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You've maybe had a conversation or something that really feels like a conversation that

they start to consider it.

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So

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Yeah, yeah, love that.

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Do you have let me go through maybe some some tactical questions here?

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Do you have a preference when a coach comes into your world for them to say, hey, I want

to coach one-on-one or I want to coach in a group or I want to do um more masses approach?

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Do you have preferences there?

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What what's your thoughts around either one of those?

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Yeah, and so my thoughts are most of the people that I'm working with, they are new.

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It's easier to sign private clients than it is to fill a group, um, to build a mastermind

or to do some other sort of larger scale enterprise.

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I suggest that they go with one-on-one to get started.

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And many of them want to do other things, but let's start there.

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You know, get you coaching, get you making some money, start to get, you know, a a bit of

a fill calendar on you under you before you start expanding.

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I think those other methods are fabulous and many people are really well geared to do

those.

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But when you're starting, start with the thing that's easy.

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Yeah, yeah.

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Yeah.

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Well I I love that because I I agree with that too.

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Not only is it easy, though those people are probably right underneath your nose.

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Right?

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They're they're right underneath your nose and they already look at you as an authority

and they're actually waiting for you to say, Hey, I will help you, and then they will

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raise their hand, right?

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It's that's that's that's a that's what we experience.

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Yeah, love that.

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Now I want to go into pricing, right?

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Because here's here's what I've experienced, and I don't know if you've experienced this

because I haven't asked you yet, but I experience when coaches come in, they think of

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pricing and they think, Well, I've been coached before, and I'm gonna follow that type of

pricing model.

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Or they'll say, My last container, well, I got a salary of that, I work that many hours.

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If I take those numbers divided by that's my hourly wage.

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And so if I'm gonna coach Candy, then I'm going to take, well, my hourly wage and maybe

add a few extra dollars so I can say I'm making more money.

341

What is your thought and or strategy or just just just coaching methodology around

pricing?

342

So there's no world where your salary and bonuses as an employee are going to match what

you need to charge or what you want to charge as a business owner.

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As a business owner, you've got overhead, you've got costs, you've got coach training,

you've got assistance, you've got all those other things that you do.

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And you need to keep that the lights on in your business.

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So oftentimes the, you know, if you broke it down to the hourly rate, it would be

significantly more that you need to charge than if you are an hourly employee.

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That being said, for me as a newer, when somebody's a newer coach, I suggest don't charge

a ton.

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Like just start working with your first five clients, really help them get value, really

give them a great experience.

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That's just your foundation.

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Don't rush ahead to try and you know make seven figures.

350

Like let's just start with the basics first.

351

There was one other question that you asked me, Adam.

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Just a sec.

353

What was it?

354

Hmm.

355

Oh.

356

It was to do with how how do you decide to charge, right?

357

What's the value?

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And you know, so I think that when you're thinking about what to charge, you want to look

at the result of working with you.

359

Say you're a career coach and you're gonna help that person take that next promotion.

360

You know, what's the difference in the salary that they're going to make over the next 10

or 20 years?

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And what does that give them?

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Now start looking at what you're thinking of charging in relationship to the benefit.

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Like what's the ROI on working with you?

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And so a couple different things to think about.

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Business owner, ROI, and what's your tolerance as a new coach starting out?

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So good.

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You know, you know what I love about that?

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And I love the simplistic approach that you gave there.

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It's when we look at who we are attempting to coach, you and I, we are coaching coaches.

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Coaches need coaches, you all.

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I'm gonna say that again because what Candy just gave as coaching advice, someone coming

out of a senior leadership role may feel, and and I don't know any of this next sentence

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to be true from your world.

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I can only take it from my world, they may have what we call egos, right?

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And these egos may cloud the vision of what they should be charging.

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And what I've experienced, and maybe you have too, is they actually undercharge.

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And they undercharge, and because they don't have guidance or leadership around themselves

as a coach to coach them.

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So I want to talk about that for a second.

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Because I've heard many times, wait a minute, you coach coaches?

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Why would a coach need a coach?

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What is your theory andor belief around that?

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Because I mean, if we're coaches, why do coaches need coaches?

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Well, first, if you want to be a coach, you want to always be growing and improving.

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We're always going to have blind spots that we can't see.

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We're always because we're growing, we're coming up against more blind spots.

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So coaching helps with that.

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And second, is it's a matter of integrity.

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If you believe that people should pay you to be a coach, then you should be investing in

your own coaching too.

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It's like

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If a physician says, Well, I don't need a doctor, you'd be like, What are you talking

about?

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Don't you have you know, a GP and maybe you've got a couple of specialists too?

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If you don't believe in medicine, how can you be a physician?

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Right.

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So it's the same I it's the same idea, right?

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So we talk about integrity and we also, you know, there's this saying, coach goes first.

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We need to keep growing because we want to.

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And because we can and because it also shows our clients that we're doing the thing too,

we're growing too, we're taking the uncomfortable risks.

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That's really, really good.

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Yeah.

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And at the end of the day, I mean, if you're not growing, you're we know which way you're

going.

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And and and here's the thing that I have experienced too.

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We every once in a while, we will teach coaches to be what we call chapters ahead, right?

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So it is, hey, if you're coaching in this specific space, great.

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You need to be a few chapters ahead anyway.

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And if your clients know that they are out.

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Performing you in a specific vertical, you won't have any more clients, right?

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And so it is one of those things where I believe, and just like you said, the integrity

space is if you're not growing as a coach, you're you're you're gonna get well.

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I'm just gonna put it this way from my own perspective, you're going to lose business,

right?

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If you're not growing yourselves, you will, you will lose business.

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I mean, heck.

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Candy, I'm I have no doubt you have coaches in your world.

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I have four coaches in my world and I feel naked if I don't have a coach in my world.

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Yeah.

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Mm-hmm.

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Very, very, very true.

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Very true.

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Okay, so let's do this.

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I want people who are listening right now to come find you.

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I want them to come follow.

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I want them to engage with you.

420

What is the best way that they can do that so they can continue to learn from you?

421

They can engage in your ecosystem and get coached up by you if they choose to.

422

Awesome, and thank you for asking.

423

The easiest way is to come and listen to my podcast.

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Just like Adam has this fabulous show here, you can just go on any player and you'll find

my podcast.

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It's called She Coaches Coaches.

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That's the easiest way to come into my world.

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And I do offer a free gift for people as well.

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I have an eight-part mini training that you can take to start your coaching business, get

started, start your first program, start meeting your first people.

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And you can find that at candysfreegift.com, always available for anyone.

430

Love it.

431

Love it.

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Love it.

433

Love it.

434

I love the name.

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She coaches coaches and candy's free gift.

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Love it.

437

Love it.

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Love it.

439

Well, Candy, thank you for jumping on the I Love Coaching podcast.

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And thank you again for having me on your show.

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And I have no doubt that our listeners got a lot of great advice here.

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I know I did.

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I have a whole page of notes here.

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And I'm so glad that our paths have crossed here.

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I have a new friend in the coaching business.

446

thank you, Adam.

447

And I'm so glad we had a chance to meet and I appreciate you inviting me to be on your

show.

448

Yes, absolutely.

449

Okay, so for all of our listeners, go find Candy, go get her free guide and engage with

her.

450

She's a very valuable asset in our coaching space.

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And I was so excited to have her on the show today for all of you.

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Candy, thank you.

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And all of our listeners, thank you.

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See you next time.

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See ya bye.