Do It (Extended Mix) - Steve Mac & Nick Reach Up: https://www.traxsource.com/track/12986537/do-it-extended-mix

Nick Halkes Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/nickhalkes/

Nick Reach Up Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/nick_reach_up/

Nick Halkes a pivotal figure in the UK dance music scene, shares his extensive journey through the industry, discussing his collaborations, experiences, and the evolution of his sound. From his early days of DJing alongside Andy Smith to co-founding the influential label XL Recordings and after that Positiva. Nick reflects on the vibrant music culture of the late 80s and 90s. He details his learning curve in the DJing world, emphasizing the importance of hands-on experience and mentorship, which shaped his skills. Nick recalls memorable moments, such as witnessing the birth of acid house and how it influenced his trajectory. He also dives into the significance of iconic venues and parties, like Freedom at Bagley’s, where he played a mix of emerging trance classics, cementing his reputation as a trendsetter.

The conversation also covers his latest release, “Do It,” a collaboration with renowned house producer Steve Mac This track samples the classic ‘Do It to the Music’ by Raw Silk, showcasing Nick's ability to bridge the gap between nostalgia and contemporary dance music. He discusses the creative process behind the track, highlighting the importance of testing new material in a live setting, particularly during his Reach Up Disco Wonderland events. Nick's passion for making exclusive tracks that resonate with audiences shines through, as he emphasizes the joy of creating music that he can share with his fans.

As the episode wraps up, Nick looks to the future, revealing plans for upcoming gigs and festivals. His enthusiasm for collaboration and innovation in music remains strong, as he prepares to explore new projects and continue his journey in the ever-evolving dance music landscape. This discussion not only celebrates his past achievements but also illuminates his forward-thinking approach to creativity, making it a must-listen for fans of electronic music.

Mentioned in this episode:

Reissued classics from Be With Records

Get 10% off at bewithrecords.com using the code ONCEADJ

So something I'd like to do if.

I don't know if you like or not, because it might.

It's a bit.

It's a bit different.

I'm quite bad at doing the intros on the podcasts.

Sure.

So I was kind of going to experiment with a different format, but it is a little bit Alan Partridge.

Okay.

So let's see if it works or not.

So let's give it a go.

If your name's not down, you're not coming in.

Well, fortunately for us, today's guest is.

He's a DJ partner of former guest Andy Smith, one half of Kicks Like a Mule, a founder of two of the UK's most important dance music labels, manager A and R.

He's done all sorts.

So, Nick Hawkes, welcome to Once A dj.

Ah, thank you for inviting me along, man.

It's good to be here.

Yeah, it was.

It was interesting to kind of do some research on you and just be like, wow, there's a lot of stuff here to get into, so.

There is.

I've been in the game a while, man.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So I guess the first place to kind of go from on this is people will have probably listened to the Andy Smith episode, and you and Andy started DJing together, and you kind of.

The first thing that he mentioned that I thought was interesting was the book, the Learning to Mix book.

Oh, right.

Have you got any sort of memories about that and whether it was useful or not?

No, not particularly, because my memories of.

Of essentially embracing DJing are all about watching people DJ and then trial and error myself, really.

So.

So for me, that was very much how I picked up the skills.

I remember seeing.

I don't know whether Andy mentioned this, but I remember when we saw these guys, the crazy psychedelic shack clay, the mobile dudes, they had like a.

Like a telephone, you know, handset thing, like you get from an old phone box.

Did Andy mention this on his podcast?

Right, so that was what they were using to queue up the records.

This sort of like a British Telecom clunky, chunky, big, big handset.

And Andy and I didn't know what queuing up records was at that point.

So we see them with this holding this telephone thing, which obviously they're using as a headphone, and we're like, why is the guy on the phone, like, while he's like, DJing?

And the best thing that we could come up with was maybe it's like a walkie talkie and he's having a conversation with, like, a guy in the van, you Know at the, the back of like the party in the car park going all right, you know, like all of the, the mod, the Northern Soul's going down really well here.

You know, you need to bring some more from the van, you know, to replenish my stocks because I've played like two or three of them and it's going great.

But we.

Oh, we've got a load of heavy metal rockers in here tonight and I've got no heavy metal sevens in the crates.

You got quick, you got emergency.

You gotta get hold of some Black Sabbath sevens and motor.

Bring him in.

Yeah, that's like the.

If the A team were gonna dj.

Yeah.

And then we realized and we chatted to the guys and they said, oh no, we just look, we queue up a record like this.

Oh, okay.

You're finding the start point of the wreck.

Okay, right.

We get it now.

And then like one of those gigs, the DJs, you know, I remember they let.

I don't remember whether I queued one up, but certainly Andy, I know, queued up a Rainbow since you've been gone 7 inch.

So he's like winding his finger back around it and you know, to get it on the start of the record and then back a little bit and then, you know, so it was experiences like that was how we learned.

And then I'm sure when it comes to actually really mixing beat matching records, I mean there was, you know, there was Greg Wilson, I think, who was on the tube, did a thing about sort of what scratching and mixing was.

I think that was something that we, that we would have checked out or otherwise, you know, being at clubs or, you know, as kids and seeing how other people did it.

So I.

That was really my experience of, of how I learned.

Yeah.

Yeah.

It's interesting that you talk about Rainbow and Motorhead because Andy did mention Motorhead quite a few times in most podcasts.

I don't Adam, but I think with.

The two of you, it's like, it's interesting that there is such a breadth of music like between the two of you, there's not much genre wise that you've not covered.

Yes, this is true.

And also something that's going to be nice to get into is looking at how you guys are still doing stuff together over this amount of time.

And it's nice when people have got this chemistry and this balance.

Oh yes.

It's an amazing thing.

And we don't really play on it at all in terms of sort of, you know, kind of concrete marketing.

So.

So when we do our reach up Disco Wonderland stuff.

We don't like, have in headlines 40 years of DJing together or anything like that.

Yeah.

But it is interesting to ponder, like, how many other DJ duos there are in the UK who started out, you know, when they were 13.

Ish.

12.

13.

Started out DJing together and still DJ together, both at the age of 57.

I mean, I think there might not be that many.

Yeah, I imagine there's sort of limited numbers.

Yeah.

So you got to like the mid-80s and you went to London to Goldsmiths, right?

I did.

Went off to university.

Yeah.

Moved up from Portishead to southeast London.

Now I'm kind of like joining dots here and I might not be accurate, but I guess it must have been pretty interesting going from Portishead to London at that time when you were at the start of kind of a musical explosion in acid house.

How is that coming in from the outside?

So I moved up to uni in 86 and then house music kind of was sort of filtering its way through really.

I guess 86, 87, 88.

And then we had 88 and 89 was when, I guess, you know, you could call that more the acid house explosion.

And I was.

Yeah, so.

And I was in the thick of that, though.

I got a job DJing in a beach bar in Play at Embossa.

And the good thing about that was that would finish about midnight, one in the morning.

And so then I'd have the rest of the night to myself, which was good.

So I remember going to Amnesia, which was completely open air in those days, and sitting next to a Greek girl who had a handmade smiley T shirt.

And a whole bunch of people were coming up to her during the course of the evening going, oh, where did you get your T shirt?

She goes, oh, I made it myself.

And they were like, oh, wicked.

You know, this and the other.

And then I got chatting to a guy called Ulysses who ran like the boutique, Bit of amnesia.

And I mentioned to him, I said, hey, there's this thing, you know, like the smiley shirt.

The smiley is kind of like a thing that's taking off in the UK at the moment.

It's sort of being used magazines and one or two club flyers.

And maybe if we put a smiley on a T shirt, that might be an interesting thing.

And he was like, yeah, no, I get it.

I'll tell you what, I'll take you to, like a factory that manufactures t shirts and you know, you can get some pressed up, some T shirts pressed up.

And he said, hey, I'll take the first 25 or so in the boutique and we'll see how they go.

And then so he would, you know, he took those and then they sold well.

And then so through that summer of 88, I would DJ till about 1am Then I'll get on my moped.

I had a rucksack, I put like the T shirts like re stocks of the T shirt in, in in my sort of backpack thing.

And then I'd scoot off to Amnesia or wherever, you know, and then I'd like turn up and then I'd be like, yeah, I've got, here's another 20 for you and fill out like a little note of like receive the cash for the ones that you.

So I'd be doing that sort of thing.

And then you know, obviously the smiley thing, it was a lot bigger when I returned at the end of that summer than it was when I went at the beginning of the summer.

And then of course it became really big as time went by.

But you know, I'm not in any way claiming to have sort of, you know, invented that.

You know, that it was on the shoom flyers and the bombed bass beat.

This record had a smiley face on it with a splat.

Which I actually, that was the thing that I took into the T shirt manufacturing place and said, hey, I just want a smiley like this but without the splatty thing on it, please.

They were like, yeah, sure.

So, yeah, interesting, interesting.

Sort of fun little era.

What did you study at uni?

Communications and sociology.

Okay.

Because I wasn't sure if you're going to say that marketing or something if you kind of.

No, I mean the communication stuff, you know, involved radio, print journalism, tv and I specialized in radio.

So then I had a few interesting things that I did radio wise during my uni years.

So one of them was I helped out at Radio 1, which I procured that slot by going to a TV show where the Peter Powell was presenting it.

DJ called Peter Powell presenting a TV show.

And then after he'd done his TV show thing, I went up to him and said, hey, I'm a student.

I don't know whether you ever need anybody to, you know, help out.

You probably don't, but if you do, you know, I'd very much be, you know, into helping out.

And he said, I'll give you the number, phone number of my producer.

And we do a thing called the Pop Panel.

And maybe he might have an idea, you know, on that.

So then I called up the producer and he went in for, like, a trial thing that went fine.

And then so while I was at uni, actually, I would be appearing on Radio 1 maybe once every three to four Sunday mornings as part of this.

It's like a round table record review thing, you know.

Nice.

And so, yeah, I was in halls of residence and people would be like, hell, Nick, were you on Radio 1 this morning?

I'm like, yeah, yeah.

They're like, what was all that about, man?

So I did that.

And then I also interned at WBLS in New York between my second and third year of uni.

So I got a work permit to work in America generally.

Sort of this scheme for young people, you know, just you can do Camp America, which is like working in those kiddies camps, teaching tennis and all that, or you could have a, you know, kind of more regular work permit.

And I got on the Work America scheme, and then I got a job working in a.

In a cinema as a cinema usher, actually.

And then I blagged my way into wbls, New York's leading sort of black music radio station.

I kind of.

What I did was I called them up and I said, I'm writing an article on New York radio and can I interview the.

The head of the.

The station literally made it up.

I wasn't writing an article, but I thought, maybe that's something that might be interesting.

And then they.

I didn't expect to hear anything back, but they called me back 10 minutes later, said, yeah, sure, you can come in and do the interview tomorrow morning.

I was like, oh, okay, blimey.

Yeah, okay, great.

Put the phone down.

Then I'm like, oh, shit, you know, I've got an interview to do tomorrow and I haven't got any questions or anything.

So I'm like, you know, scanning the dial, listening to.

Just trying to come up with some stuff.

And then I went in the next day, did the interview, kind of hung out at the radio station.

Well, got shown around basically by a very nice lady in the programming area.

And then we were chatting and I explained, yeah, in an ideal world, I'd find an internship or something, blah, blah, blah.

And she said, okay, if you've got a bit of time this afternoon, you know, can you file these records here, call up these record stores, compile a chart?

Yeah, sure, I'll do all of that.

Got to the End of the day.

And I said, oh, wow.

And she said, okay.

That was.

That was great.

I said, well, thank you very much for allowing me to, you know, help out for a couple of hours.

And she said, well, okay, so same time tomorrow then?

And I said, wow.

I mean, if there's another day, you know, that you need me to help out, that's amazing.

She said, no, no, not another day.

You're our new intern if you want to be.

I'm like, oh, my God.

God, really?

She's like, yeah, absolutely.

I'm like, that would be the most amazing thing ever.

So.

So I went in.

I went in in the morning to do this interview, and I came out essentially with, you know, with an internship, which meant that I then went into WPLs, you know, Monday to Friday, helping out, dealing with the record library requests.

I was like, the guy, the kid, you know, who would.

Yeah.

If Marley Marl was in, doing his lunchtime mix, which he would do regularly.

You know, I'm like, hey, do you want me to get any sodas or sandwiches from the deli?

And he's like, yeah, man, you know, get me a.

This, that and the other.

And I'd go and get the sandwiches in.

And was Mr.

Magic there prior to that?

He was magic at kiss.

I think Mr.

Magic was at Kiss.

Frankie Crocker.

Was WB it.

Yes, he was, wasn't he?

Yes, he was.

Was that because he was.

I mean, the station itself so important in terms of the sort of.

Genesis.

Genesis, the.

The.

The growth of hip hop, wasn't it?

Is that what made you target that station?

Yeah, I just thought it would be cool.

Yeah, I thought, that's a cool spot.

Wbls.

Let's ring them up.

Give it.

Have a.

Give it a go.

And of course, you know, you.

You never know where these things may lead to.

I wasn't expecting it to work, but obviously, you know, an experience like that where it did work.

And then I then found myself there every day hanging out, you know, with all of these people.

And, you know, I got to.

Got to know these guys a bit, and I, you know, I went to Marley Marles house where he had his studio at home, very basic gear, and just hung out a bit there when he was making some.

I think he's working on some Roxanne Shantae stuff that day, you know, amazing.

But I guess I found out at a young age that if you can get yourself into sort of somehow get yourself into interesting environments, then interesting things can happen.

And I've been maintaining that sort of philosophy all the way till literally to today.

Like, you know, I was in, just as an example, I was in Manchester on Saturday night and Sunday night at the two Prodigy shows at Warehouse project.

And after the Saturday night show, I got invited to the newly opened club in Manchester that's had a lot of profile because it has a very strict no phone, no filming policy.

You might have seen it on the, you know, it's been on the BBC website, news website, actually had a whole page cage in the Guardian on, on Saturday.

And again, I just thought that feels like the sort of place that I need, I should be going to.

So I rolled down there and absorbed it and you know, like, this is really interesting and kind of have come to the conclusion that this could really grow, I think as a concept certainly in smaller, cooler clubs where, yeah, keep your entrance price low, don't base the proposition on.

We've got this big name and that big name just go, hey, it's going to be a great vibe, the music will be great.

It's a no filming thing.

So get in there and just absorb the moment, enjoy the atmosphere, don't be obsessed with how you look and you know, don't worry that, you know, your friends are going to take a picture of you, blah, blah, blah, blah.

And I've got to say, it was really a good vibe, so.

And I really learned from that.

And so, yeah, man, that's, that's something I've been doing for years and hopefully I'll be doing forever.

Putting myself in interesting environments and yeah.

Hoping that interesting things can happen.

Yeah.

Something else I just wanted to ask is, with the sociology side of your degree, did you, did you kind of manage to weave anything from music into what you were doing in that?

I, I did, I did.

So basically my dissertation, like your big, whatever it was, 10 or 15,000 word study, was called Club Culture, the Mating Game question mark.

And what it did was it compared and contrasted sort of mainstream clubbing, which was more booze orientated, you know, meeting partners of the opposite sex.

Typically in, in that era, you know, mainstream high street proposition where the music was all familiar and wasn't really so central to the proposition with underground culture that wasn't so much about, you know, finding a boyfriend, girlfriend and where the music proposition was less familiar and da da da, da da.

So, yeah, and then I wrote my dissertation on that, to my dad's great surprise, because he, so he was saying, right, so, so you could go out to a nightclub on a Wednesday night, Thursday night or whatever, could you?

And Stay there till four in the morning with music blasting out and everybody dancing around.

And you could legitimately say that that was part of your, your university research, could you?

And I said, yeah, absolutely.

It was like, bloy me.

It's great though, isn't it, any, any time that you can bring the fun into sort of school and things.

Like, I used to always, like, if I, if there was ever an opportunity to work with someone who's got a camcorder and make a video about something.

Yeah, I'd always want to do that instead of writing things.

It's a lot more fun.

So what was the plan after uni then?

Did you have one or.

Yeah, so I started off helping out Simon Goff's company called Secret Promotions.

I did a couple of days a week just stuffing 12 inch records into mailers and I'd met Simon by going to his club, which would have been probably a club called Fool's paradise at Gossips in those days.

And yeah, you know, kind of was.

So that was a first little step into the UK industry, I forgot to say, actually, when I came back from wbls, I also worked as the UK rep for Easy Street Records, the New York dance label.

So I kind of got.

Went to see various record label people in the uk, Tongy, FFRR or Danny D at Cool Tempo etc, and was like, hey, I've got this record that's going to be released in a month's time on Easy Street.

Maybe you want to license it.

And so for my final year of uni, I was getting involved in that and that was good because those meetings all felt like kind of unofficial interviews because then I, the, you know, the people I was seeing would then go, right, so how come you're the UK rep for Easy street whilst you're still at uni?

And I'll go, oh, I was working at WBLS in the summer.

So yeah, it kind of came out of that and they're like, and how come you were working at WBLS in this?

You know.

So, yeah, I'd kind of had that, that experience.

So then I start doing the part time with Simon and then a fellow who worked there full time called Guy left and then of course, you know, they needed a full time employee and I was the kid who was helping out, so I knew how it all worked, you know, whether records, what you needed to do.

So then that became my first full time sort of gig in the uk.

But it, whilst it was a start, of course, as you, as, you know, for years I'd been building up towards it because whilst that was my very first full time gig, I'd been hanging out in Amnesia and Ibiza.

I'd been, you know, the summer before I was at Paradise Garage in New York when I was at BLS and doing all of this stuff.

So I'd had a, you know, quite helping out Radio 1 as I mentioned earlier.

So I'd had quite a lot of suitable experience before like my first full time job happened.

Yeah, I guess this is the thing of just going back to what you were saying about getting yourself into different environments and things like that.

It's all education, isn't it?

Certainly is, mate.

Yeah.

And you know, for anybody who wants to really, you know, achieve anything in a specific area, you, you need to learn about it, you need to hang around.

It's why, you know, there's footage, isn't there, of Alan Shearer as a ball boy for Newcastle, you know, when he was a little kid.

What's, you know, how does Alan Shearer go from being a little kid to being a great professional footballer?

Well, you, you get involved and you hang around at the club and you clean the boots and you get a feel for what the training ground is like and what the, you know, what it's like to be in a, a big stadium when you've got some work responsibilities.

You know, you're not just watching the match, you are, you're also, you know, you're hanging out and you're, you're, you're, you're working in, in that, you know, that, that kind of role.

So I think this is what people should do if they, you know, if people want to DJ, go hang out, watch DJs or if you want to promote rock bands, go to rock gigs and hang out and stand by the mixing desk and learn what's happening there or get there early and see, you know, when people are loading in, what's going on.

If you, you know, or chat to the, to the guest list person on the door and say, how did you get, may I ask how you got this job?

Pick your time.

You know, don't maybe do that if you've got like 50 people waiting behind you.

But at the right time, open up that conversation and some.

It's important stuff, Adam.

So from there then, can you tell me about meeting Richard Russell?

Yeah, so I suppose I went from secret promotions to working for City Beat.

Tim Palmer, Tim Palmer's label.

And Tim ran Groove Records in Soho.

Yeah.

And also had the CP label.

So started working for Tim basically as club promo.

But he had said, hey, if you find any good records that we might like to sign, then bring them in, you know, and if they're good, we'll sign them.

So.

Oh, you know, this is exciting.

That sort of A and R opportunity.

And then one of the.

I had a few things that I tried to sign early and wasn't able to.

Little Louis French Kiss was what I actually thought.

I'd signed that, actually, because I just phoned up the number on the record and said, hello.

And, you know, the.

An.

The person answering said, hi, it's Louis.

I'm like, oh, wow, is that Little Louis?

He's like, yeah.

Huh.

I'm like, great.

Yeah, I'm a record label in the UK and I'd like to sign your record.

He goes, sounds cool.

Okay, good.

Does that sound interesting?

Yeah, man.

Yeah, sounds cool to me.

I'll just give you my lawyer's number and, you know, tidy it all up with him.

Gave me the lawyer's number, put the phone down.

I'm like, wow, have I just signed French Kiss?

It feels like I have.

But then the lawyer had to keep chasing the lawyer for the next three weeks.

And then eventually the lawyer got in contact, said, hey, it's going to be 20, 25 grand at least if you want to sign this record.

And no, we, you know, we weren't in the.

In the business of signing records for 20, 25 grand.

Yeah.

So it didn't happen.

So, you know, I had a bit of that and a couple of other records that I tried to sign.

And then one that I did sign, which became a top 10 hit.

My first top 10, which is a record called Numero Uno by Starlight.

Do you remember that record?

Italian piano house thing?

No.

Okay, so, like, Big, you know, made by the same guys that made Ride on Time, the Black Box lot.

So, yeah, big, big frothy piano.

North Northern Record.

Lot of support from Mike Pickering and all these, you know, guys.

And, yeah, so that went top 10.

And then really off the back of that, Tim and I then started Excel Recordings with a different agenda to the City Beat agenda.

So the CB agenda was, you know, pretty broad.

Some rap, some house, some commercial soul, and generally sort of looking for hit records in a whole load of different, you know, genres.

And then the Excel agenda was different.

So this was not about, like, hey, can we find puppets?

It was more, can we find good, solid underground records that would be popular with the DJs and grow from there.

And then so Excel started, put out a bunch of records, you know, loaded Frankie Bones stuff.

I signed the Prodigy at that point and then Richard.

Richard Russell sort of was sort of helping us out and then he became, you know, sort of full time.

So did you sign the Prodigy before Kicks Like a Mule was Kick, right, okay.

Yeah, man.

Had quite a significant.

Yeah, the Prodigy was signed couple of years before Kicks Like a Meal.

Right?

Yeah.

So how did you discover them?

Liam called the office and said, I'm a DJ with a rap act called Cut To Kill, but I've made some music that isn't right for the.

For the.

For the rap act and I'm wondering if I can come and play it to you.

And fortunately I said, yeah, come, you know, come along and whatever and play me the music.

Fantastic.

Because maybe if I'd said, mate, just stick it in the post, maybe he wouldn't have stuck it in the post and might sign somewhere else.

Quite probably the case.

But I said, yeah, sure, come down.

And then he came down, played me some demos and I thought, yeah, this is good, exciting, dynamic underground music and it's the sort of thing that we should be doing.

So then made an offer a couple of days after the meeting.

It was agreed swiftly and we were up and running.

So it's pretty smooth, really.

But what I didn't perceive at the point of signing was I wasn't thinking, wow, here are big crossover hit records, or here's.

Here's a.

I wasn't thinking, here's an act that are going to sell a lot of albums.

Well, for one reason, because there wasn't an act at that point.

It was Liam making, you know, the music without any live component.

The live aspect happened post signing.

So, you know, it wasn't.

A lot of record labels wouldn't have signed the Prodigy because it just didn't have the components that at that time you would have thought you might have needed to have proper big success.

So, yeah, that was that.

So was it you guys at the label that said you need to kind of work out a way to make this a live act, or was it Liam wanting some kind of.

I just said to Liam, have you got a vision for how you'd like to.

To grow this?

And he said, yeah, I want to have a.

A band.

And I said, oh, great.

Because of.

At that era, it was kind of like more of a bedroom DJ thing.

There wasn't that many kind of live acts that were on the circuit.

And I said, have you got the personnel.

And he said, well, you know, I've got a couple of mates and I've asked them if they fancy, you know, being in a.

You know, us being an act, you know, an artist together, you know.

And he said, yeah, you know, they're up.

They've said they're up for it, but we haven't had any rehearsals or anything.

But I'm sort of hoping that that might work out.

And obviously it did.

Yeah.

Yeah.

It's so nice that you started the label just wanting to focus on the underground.

But, yeah, you know, they've been such a successful group.

Oh, it's amazing, isn't it?

You know, it's incredible.

And where are the other notes on there?

And you had SL2?

Yes, yes.

Matt and John.

Slip.

Matt and Lime.

Great to work with.

Slip.

Matt.

Really, really hard working guy.

Great guy.

Still an incredible dj.

And we had fun, you know, and we worked together getting, you know, getting that whole thing off, off the.

Off the ground.

And there's all sorts of little funny anecdotes there.

I mean, one thing I remember about SL2 was on a Raggedip didn't have a name when we cut the record.

So we're literally mastering it.

The lacquers are in a box and they need to go away to the factory.

I'm like, we've got.

It's got to have a title, lads.

So, you know, we.

We really are at crunch point here.

We need to come up with a title for it.

And there wasn't one.

And we were.

I'm in an ah.

In.

And I.

I remember saying, let's sort of think about this.

It's sort of like, right, maybe the title that can kind of.

I don't know, that can describe the record.

It's sort of like, you know, what is the record?

It's.

It's kind of.

It's on a raggedy type of thing.

And.

And then everybody sort of went like, yeah.

Oh, yeah, that'd be good.

On a raggedy.

Yeah, that's pretty cool, innit?

And so I'm like, great, we've got a name then, have we?

They're like, yeah, we have.

Good.

Okay, you can go off to the factory now.

So, you know, it was making it up as we went along, man.

You know what I mean?

Yeah.

And I suppose in hindsight.

So earlier on Today, I was listening to Terry Turbo's podcast with Jumping Jack Frost.

Oh, yeah.

And they were on about when drum and bass got moody.

Yeah.

Around 96.

It was set.

But what they said that I Found interesting was that it was when they started, when jungle sort of and Drum Bass started sampling more of the reggae artists.

But then thinking about it, like, SL2 and the Prodigy were kind of sampling reggae.

So I guess in a way it was quite ahead of its time, really.

Yeah, definitely.

And obviously, I guess that Those Prodigy and SL2 records that did fuse together reggae and Breakbeat, along with, you know, Lenny Dice, We Are I E.

Reggae, Bassline, Breakbeat and, you know, multiple other records.

Shy Nye or whatever that record was Sampled Shynai on Shut up and Dance.

You know, there was a whole bunch of breakbeat reggae stuff.

And yeah, all of that was the foundations for what went on to be jungle and the foundations for what went on to be drum and bass.

Really.

Yeah.

And just another one that came out on the label, Sweet Harmony.

Yep.

Yeah, Fantastic record.

You know, it was an era where there were a lot of really great records around.

So it wasn't hard to find really great, significant records coming through.

Maybe we wouldn't necessarily have known that some of these records would go on to be complete classics, that in 30 years time would still be getting played and very much appreciated.

But it was a vibrant era and hey, there was a lot of crap around as well.

So it would be wrong to look back at that era and just go, oh, music was amazing, wasn't it, in like 91 and 92.

I mean, there was a lot of amazing music, but there also was a lot of rubbish, you know, white label, break beaty stuff that really wouldn't go on to do anything of big note.

Maybe you could sell, you know, a couple of thousand white labels, of course, which is not bad.

But, yeah, it was a.

It was a great time for music.

And I think I'm very lucky that I was in and around that.

That.

That period, which was so exciting for.

For.

For music and stuff kind of kicking off and sort of, yeah, flying, you know, building to a point where the records could fly into the mainstream pop chart.

Which probably brings us on to the Kicks Like A Mule record, the Bouncer, where, yeah, myself and Rich were right in the thick of the scene and thought maybe we should have a go at making a record as well, because everybody else is.

And let's see what happens.

And so, yeah, we made that record and what we were keen to do was make a record that was underground but identifiable.

So not like an underground record that just a DJ would mix, you know, into and then it would be in.

But it was just a load of break beats and a noise and then on to the next one.

We wanted a record that people could identify and kind of pinpoint and remember.

And then obviously the sample in the record is exactly that.

And then there was something in that era, really, about when you had a record that really was identifiable.

And then it would cause a lot of demand in the record stores.

And then the record stores, if they were getting that much demand, they'd put a sign up, like hand scribble, Please don't ask us, you know, whatever record isn't out until, you know, three weeks time, because every day, oh, have you got this?

You know, everybody was coming in.

And then we started to see when the record was on promo, it was Tribal Base, Rebel MC's label that released the record, not Excel, actually.

And then we started to see those signs pop up in a couple of record stores.

And that was like, yeah, that means, you know, that means that it's got a good chance of.

Of being a, you know, a proper crossover record.

And, yeah, it went to number seven in the national charts and Top of the Pops and all that.

So, again, another fun little era, man.

And so where did the name Kicks Like A Mule come from?

Because it is amazing.

We were just trying to come up with a name that was memorable and that kind of represented the music that we wanted to put out, so that the two sort of linked together.

And I don't remember exactly how we came up with the name, to be honest, but I really don't.

But once we had it, we thought, yeah, that is what we do.

We.

We attempt to put out music that, you know, that is uncompromising and Kicks and all of that.

And so, yeah, we just, yeah, we didn't, you know, kind of put too much attention into it, but we thought, yeah, that sounds all right, we'll go with that.

Yeah, we still managing to DJ through this time, because I know we've talked a lot more about the sort of internships in the day job.

Yes.

So myself and Richard were out DJing as kicks like a Mule on the rave circuit.

And, yeah, it was entertaining and exciting and we.

We'd get to travel around a bit and, you know, we had a different attitude to it than I would have today.

I mean, I remember we got a gig in Newquay or something on a, you know, Thursday night and we just thought, yeah, we'll drive down to Newquay, do the gig and drive home and be back in the office the next day was the sort of thinking, no need for a day off.

You know, we didn't probably didn't think it through fully.

Kind of got back to London about half seven in the morning, you know, having left at probably three in the afternoon the day before, you know, but again, just sort of just doing, just getting stuck in and doing things and, you know, being in the club.

So which was good because you'd hear other records out in the club, so we might be DJing somewhere.

We could try out records that were forthcoming, Excel things or things that we were considering signing.

And then obviously you'd hear maybe another DJ play something and go, oh, that's good.

I think.

Well, you mentioned Jumping Jack Frost earlier, and in his book, his autobiography, he mentions where I believe he played T99 Anastasia, a rave.

And I went over and went, wow, what's that record?

And I think he showed me, oh, T99 Anastasia.

And I'm like, oh, that's great.

And then, yeah, I went away and signed the record and he was like, guys, guys sort of getting stuck in out there.

So, yeah, I loved it and, you know, it was great fun.

You know, it meant that we could host some Excel parties internationally.

Adam.

So, you know, there was, there was some, some gigs in interesting, you know, different places that we, that we did and then, and that was a theme really, that carried through the Positiva era.

So when I left Excel and moved to Positiva, set up a new label for emi, that also carried through.

And there's a whole bunch of label night activity there where I got to DJ all over the world.

So it's, you know, I've been very lucky to have had a long thread of DJing across the years.

Yeah.

So when you'd be going out and sort of testing records, how good was your intuition?

Did you have any odd.

Did you have many where you were convinced they'd be big and they'd smash it and they just really didn't.

I think everybody has some of those.

Yes, there's, there's.

I'm trying to think records that I thought that would smash it and didn't.

I mean, maybe more in the Positiva era than the Excel era.

So there was a record called on the Top of the World by Diva Surprise that are signed to Positiva.

Big money signing, not, not a, not a big hit, though.

Then there's the records that you underestimate, of course, the ones that you think might be sort of top 10 records, but then they go on to be real smashes and you go, wow, you didn't see it being a, you know, that big.

There's artists that have underestimated I mean, I had.

Orbital came to see me in, you know, in the Excel era, actually, before they were Orbital, funnily enough, they were called something like D and S building contractors or something in that era.

And.

But I just didn't hear any music that I thought was good enough to sign.

So I was like, it's cool, but not.

Not hearing anything there.

And then they made chime and I didn't.

You know, I didn't.

I kind of.

Kind of missed chime, I think, somehow.

And so they were off, you know.

But this is all part of it, man.

Yeah, I think an overestimating stuff.

Underestimating stuff.

Getting some calling, some in the middle.

This is all part of the game.

So looking at Positiva, a few of the big ones there got Junior Vasquez, if that's how I pronounce it.

Get your hands off my man.

Yeah, you'll find out the more I say on these things, there'll be.

There'll be things that you'll think, why has he left that out?

Because I don't know that much about sort of house and dance stuff.

Bucketheads.

The bomb, obviously.

Yes.

Did you realize that was going to be as big.

What?

Oh, that was.

That's what I was gonna ask you.

Sorry.

Was there kind of a model that you had that was kind of licensing stuff that was out in America for Europe?

So the Positiva era model was very much built around great records that can have a strong club base and then hopefully curve beyond that club base into something a lot more crossover.

And so my view was really wherever the record comes from, whether it comes from America or Germany or, you know, Scandinavia or whatever, I'm interested in having the best record I can possibly have is the most important thing.

The most important thing is not having it for the world or having it for life of copyright.

It's okay if it's a license deal, it's 10 years and maybe we've only got the UK.

That's fine, as long as that is the killer record, you know, the one that we really want to sign.

Let's get that one.

I'd rather have the record that we really believe in for a smaller territory in a small amount of time than have a record that I'm not so confident in.

But we've got the world and all the rest of it.

And so there was an education process for EMI in that.

Because I was going in and saying, no, we need to sign this record.

And, you know, maybe some of the people at EMI were going, but, like, the territories are very small.

Why.

Why are we doing it for such small territories?

Because we need this record.

We go get this record, you know, so that was.

Yeah, and, and so the, the positivity was great.

There's some amazing records, some of the biggest records actually didn't have that much competition to sign them, which is quite interesting.

So I like to move it by reel to reel.

Didn't have any competition, actually.

Wow.

To sign that.

We were the only people who were up for it.

You know, Buckethead's the bomb that had a couple of labels sniffing around and offering.

But.

But it wasn't too difficult for us to get that, get that signed.

So.

So, you know, it's a vibrant era, but it, you know, it.

But sometimes you could get big records without much competition and then sometimes when a record like BBE 7 days in 1 week came along, there'd be a lot of competition.

We'd have to do a lot of work to figure out how we can sign this.

And I remember, for example, on bbe, the French company that we were dealing with, they said, hey, you can't have vinyl rights.

We need to maintain vinyl rights ourselves.

A lot of UK labels went, what?

Well, we can't sign it if we can't put vinyl out, because we need to put vinyl out to get it into the chart.

So, like, this doesn't make sense.

But in the case of bbe, for example, we were like, okay, is there a way around it?

And the solution we came up with there was, like I said, so if you need to maintain vinyl rights, would it work if we gave you some Positiva artwork and you pressed up 10,000 pieces of vinyl in Positiva range bags and we bought them off you?

He said, yeah, that would work fine.

Great.

And, you know, we've got a solution.

You keep your vinyl rights, we get to have 10,000 positiva bits of vinyl in the record stores to help us have the hit that we need.

And, you know, and of course the record was a smash, but it needed.

It needed sort of thinking and some lateral thinking and some, you know, we didn't get every record that we tried to sign in the Positiva era either, of course.

And some, some, you know, artists just decided they wanted to be somewhere else.

Robert Miles tried to sign Children, but the artist, you know, he wanted to be on Deconstruction, wanted to be on the same label as Sasha, you know, fair enough.

And, and, you know, but yeah, an amazing, amazing era.

And then from a DJ perspective, the, the Positiva Time was great because again, we.

We were able to do parties in.

And club nights in around the uk.

We did stuff in.

I did Japan and Israel and various places around Europe.

Canada did a.

Yeah, you know, we went to Canada, which was pretty interesting.

So DJ'd on kind of like live TV there.

It's like a positiva thing.

And I remember we.

We didn't know much about this TV show.

We thought it was just going out in Canada, but then we got there and I can remember the person who was hosting it was going, blah, blah, blah, you know, and shout out to who, you know, so and so in Panama and so and so in Costa Rica.

I'm like, this is a bit weird.

And I asked that.

Oh, yeah, it gets like a simulcast.

It goes out that gets broadcast on these Latin American TV shows as well.

Like, really?

It's like, yeah, yeah, it's like much music from Canada was, you know, and their dance bit of programming was, you know, so went out on loads in loads of other countries.

So that was like.

That was almost like the first time I.

I'd done something that was like what now would be called, like live streaming or something, or like a live broadcast thing.

And we were DJing, myself and Kev Robinson, and I think Kev was like, yeah, I think I'll leave this one a bit more up to you, Nick, if that's all right.

I'm like, okay.

But, you know, it was one of those ones where you get in the mix, you get it working and then it just goes out a bit and you're like, yeah, into the next record.

I'm not going to hear.

I'm not going to be clanging, clanging away live in front of 15 different countries at the same time.

So, yeah, but, you know, again, all part of the.

All part of the mix.

Yeah.

I was DJing the other night somewhere on one of the Pioneer 900 mixes, and I kept using the echo to go out.

Okay.

But then when I go back into that channel, I'd still have the echo on.

I kept having to turn it off.

I'm like, oh, God, I need to just give up on doing this.

Well, don't give up.

It, you know, clang in a few bits and.

And a few challenges.

That's all part of the game.

But never let that stop you really from DJing, because when it.

So long as you DJ, things won't be perfect.

You will mess up the odd mix, you will bring something in a point that you didn't plan to, or you'll start Queuing something up and the fade is up and it all goes with the territory and it's fine.

It's a human process.

And I think that people see, if they see that you mess something up slightly or.

Me and Andy play vinyl a bunch and sometimes a record jumps or whatever and we, you know, maybe we'll get on the mic and go, we're playing some vinyl.

That's what happens sometimes, and you move on.

And people kind of appreciate the.

The honesty of that.

Something else that came up when I was doing my research was Bagley's in that sort of trance area.

Can you tell me about that?

Yeah, definitely.

So Freedom at Bagley's was an amazing club night.

Big warehouse space in King's Cross.

Three rooms, maybe four even.

And yeah, just rocking, really rocking.

So that.

That era was when we were doing monthly positiva nights there.

There was a.

There was so much amazing music.

So I DJ there and maybe in one set it would be Paul Van Dyke for An Angel, Cafe del Mar Energy 52, of course, maybe, you know, Brain Bug or Veracocha or Guriella.

I mean, all of these big trance records popping off and it was explosively exciting, you know, really great.

Amazing.

People who ran it shout out to Debbie and Colin Ariel, resident her in the.

In the main room.

Yeah, so.

So a really special part of.

Of London clubland history.

Freedom at Bagley is tremendous.

Yeah, it's.

It's strange kind of going down there now.

Now it's Coldrops Yard and kind of reading stories on Facebook and things like that about just what it was.

Um, so mindful that we've not got too much time left.

There's a couple of things I really want to cover, and that's more of the continuation of your production.

But maybe before that, just looking at how things.

We talked about Andy at the start and how you guys did things at the start.

Yeah.

And I'm mindful that, you know, you've got Reach Up Disco Wonderland now.

Did you guys kind of continually sort of DJ together over the years?

No.

So we had a break from hanging out and DJing together.

So it's.

So, yeah, we were kind of on different paths for a while.

And then what happened with the Reach Up Disco Wonderland sort of concept was I was hanging out with Andy and he was DJing in Camden on a Friday night.

And I would just go along to hang out and catch up and have a drink.

And then, you know, because I was there hanging out with him behind the deck, sometimes he'd nip off to the loo.

And I'm like, yeah, I'll stick a few disco records on.

And then that, you know, was actually something we really enjoyed and I enjoyed doing that again.

And he was around and then we thought from that, hey, maybe there is something that we can be doing together.

I'd been a little bit cautious about doing anything that had a retro or old school facing aspect to it.

Just didn't.

Because there was a time in my sort of DJing career, if you like, where I thought, no, I need to be playing new stuff all the time.

Exciting, vibrant new stuff.

But then I kind of loosened up a bit and then, and thought, yeah, it would be good to do some parties with Andy for fun.

And so we did a couple of bits which I think we called 808 from memory.

And then we did.

Then we started to get some Reach up stuff going.

We did a bunch with Chrissy Kibosh together as three of us.

And then that morphed over the years and then it became myself and Andy doing Reach Up Disco Wonderland.

And it's a source of great Joy.

I mean, DJing with my best mate, it's a.

It's a beautiful thing, man.

That's amazing.

So this sometimes happens where we just.

We focus so much on this kind of fertile era when so many things happen in music.

We've not really kind of come covered much of the last sort of 20 years really.

And I think I probably got about 600 questions.

But yeah, mindful that you've got to jump off shortly.

So I think the best thing to sort of get into is talking about sort of production.

Yeah.

Where.

Where else that's gone over the years and your new release that's just come out.

Yeah.

I mean, so I suppose when we talk about music production and, And Reach up, the start of making records for me in this sort of disco y housey space was simply, we've got some Reach up gigs coming out up.

It'd be really nice to have a few things to play that are exclusive to us, to me, so that I'm not just playing the same tracks that everybody else is.

So really, the making of some of the original Nick Reach up remixes and tracks was built out of a desire to make the DJ set more interesting and a bit more original by having music to play that not everybody else had.

And then of course, it's the.

It's the perfect testing ground, isn't it, for new music?

If you've made a disco house record, what better environment is there than testing it out in front of a bunch of people who are bang up for disco and a bit of house music and go, hey, let's see how this record works.

And you know, we play a bunch of classics in both the house and in the disco space.

So any new things that we, that we make, you know, are competing alongside some really well established and fantastic classic records.

You know, we're not, we're not just playing two hours of new underground disco influence stuff.

So.

So, you know, if for a new record to stand out it's, it's got to be, you know, it's got to be pretty decent.

But yeah, doing the, the Reach up club nights has inspired me basically, yes, to make records, to collaborate with other people and to remix records.

So, you know, I've worked with some really good people, Full Intention, Birdie, Barbara Tucker, Dave Smith, Spoon, kind of collaboratively and I'm a big fan of that and I've been lucky enough to remix some, some, some really cool stuff.

And obviously you can't go wrong.

If you've got a great start, point of a track to remix and those original elements are really good, then you're off and running from the get go.

So yeah, Remix Degrees of Motion and Expansions.

Kylie Delacy, Mel C.

Some interesting sort of bits and pieces, some classic repertoire actually Delacy and then a Hot Streak Bodywork.

Both Easy street masters.

So the company that I worked for when I was in my third year of uni, so that was kind of a bit of a nice full circle thing.

And yeah, I've loved that process of, of being involved making music or doing remixes and things and yeah, continue to do so.

And I guess that brings me to a record that is out imminently at the time you're recording, which is called Do It.

That's a record that's a collab between myself and Steve Mack.

It's a Steve Mack, legendary house producer, half of Rhythm Masters and he's been worked with all kinds of people and works with Irving Welch on the, the train spotting sort of theater proposition.

He's involved in all of that.

Yeah, he's done a load of.

Load of great stuff over the years and yeah, and so do it is a record that samples raw silk.

Do it to the music.

So that's a classic record really on West End that I would play sometimes at Reach up shows anyway in its original format and then we tried the record out a few times or I played the record out a few times, Reach up tweaked it around a little bit and yeah, then got the record finished and yeah, it's, you know, there'll be more of that process, I'm sure, making records for the dance floor, improving them, hopefully putting them out and then moving on to, you know, whatever's next.

Well, what we'll do is we'll put the link in the show notes for the record.

Yes, thank you.

So what else is coming up in the future for you then, Nick?

Have you got anything planned in that you're heading into the new year with?

Yeah, so the next bits and pieces for Reach up we've got New Year's Eve, which is at levels in Peckham, which is a sort of converted multi story car park been turned into a great venue.

Myself and Paul Duquesne running the, the Reach up room there for South London Soul Train, which is a wonderful, well established club brand in its own right.

So that's New Year's Eve, January 4th, myself and Andy back at Magic Garden, which is in Battersea.

Our monthly residency for each up there.

And we are now at the time of year where we start booking in festivals for next summer.

So we've got a couple of bits that I'm sure we'll announce across the next maybe month to two months, one of which we just wrapped up a couple of days ago.

So we always, you know, look forward to festival season and hopefully we'll, we'll be back out with a whole bunch of shows there and then there'll be more music coming.

So I've made a track with a guy called Stevie Keys who runs an amazing venue in Thailand that I DJed at earlier this year.

So we've got a collab record coming up.

I've got a couple of other sort of remixy collab y bits that'll, that will roll out through the course of the year as well.

So, yeah, I mean, it's all stuff that I enjoy, the DJing, the making the music, collaborating, etc, on the Reach up side of things.

So yeah, there'll be more of it because I enjoy it and it helps put me into interesting environments where interesting things might happen, which as I mentioned before, is sort of a big theme for me and something that I'm keen to keep doing.

Brilliant.

Well, thanks ever so much for your time today, Nick.

You're welcome.

Thanks for inviting me along, man.

I mean, I do agree with you.

We could, we could chat for hours probably.

But yeah, there's a working day, there's work to be done.

Gotta crack on, man.

That's it.

All right, mate?

Well, yeah, thanks ever so much for your time and all the best.

All right.

Thank you, Adam.

Take care, mate.

And all the best with your.

With your podcast series.

Keep up the good work, mate.