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The Art and Strategy of VIP Upsells in Online Business
Episode 3 • 3rd April 2024 • Cocktails, Coffee, & Conversations • Tracie Patterson
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In this episode of 'Cocktails, Coffee, and Conversations,' host Tracie, alongside guest Sue McLachlan from the Unicorn Advisory, delves into the concept of VIP upsells within the realm of digital products and online business strategies.

They explore whether entrepreneurs need VIP options, the motivations behind offering such upsells, and how they can be more than just a higher price point. The discussion covers different scenarios where VIP offers can be beneficial, addressing them not as exclusive or premium for the sake of higher charges but as tailored solutions for specific client needs.

They emphasize the importance of making VIP offers meaningful by aligning them more closely with what customers truly need rather than just adding more of the same services. Furthermore, the conversation shifts towards understanding one's audience and ensuring any upsell or offer directly addresses their journey and requirements. The notion that 'there is no one-size-fits-all' in business offers is a recurring theme, encouraging entrepreneurs to constantly evaluate and adapt their strategies to best serve their audience while also making conscious decisions that align with their business values and goals.

00:00 Welcome to the Digital Entrepreneur Life: Insights and Introductions

00:58 Diving Deep into VIP Upsells: Strategies and Controversies

01:48 The True Value of VIP Offers: Beyond the Money

07:30 Crafting VIP Offers: Ethical Pricing and Personal Capacity

15:47 Exploring Alternatives to Coaching in VIP Offers

20:26 Exploring VIP Offers and Their Impact

21:27 Understanding Your Audience's Preferences

22:29 The Importance of Pricing and Customer Feedback

23:44 Navigating Business Growth and Audience Evolution

29:37 Creating Distinct and Valuable Offer Tiers

37:15 Final Thoughts on Launching and Learning

A free tool or two from our host and guest:

Got a question or comment?

www.traciepatterson.com/ama

Want Tracie's best trainings or to find out more?

www.traciepatterson.com/connection

Catch Sue on all things Kajabi

https://www.youtube.com/@suemclachlan/videos


Music Credit ColourfulSounds

Podcast Editor Maia McLachlan

Digital Marketing VA Lisa Harmatuk



This podcast uses the following third-party services for analysis:

Chartable - https://chartable.com/privacy

Transcripts

Tracie:

Hello, everyone, Tracie here, your resident business rebel, and you're

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listening to Cocktails, Coffee and

Conversations podcast, the show that

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lets true stories and insider secrets

of digital entrepreneur life unfold.

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Our business world is growing.

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And as an online business coach and

digital product creator, I believe you

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didn't become an entrepreneur to grin

and bear your way through business.

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So I'll be your guide as we drop in

on coaching calls, have intimate sit

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downs with online personalities you love

and discuss ideas, opportunities, and

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strategies circulating our online world.

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So pop in your earbuds, tap follow.

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And join me as I demystify

this thing called business.

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As long as things are a conscious

decision, you're not doing it wrong.

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There is no wrong.

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There's just doing it your way.

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Welcome in everyone.

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Today I am joined by Sue

McLachlan of the Unicorn Advisory.

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If you haven't come across Sue

yet, she's an online business

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strategist and Kajabi expert.

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She loves talking about Kajabi.

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Marketing courses, launching,

and online business.

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And that's what you'll hear in these

special sessions where you get to drop

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in on us having an inside chat about

hot topics in the online business world.

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And today's is about the sometimes

controversial VIP upsell.

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Ever wondered about adding

a VIP upsell to your offer?

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Well, we're going to dive into if

you should, when you should and how

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to, if you choose to, to make sure

it's different from your main offer.

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Let's go beyond the idea of a money

grab and into how these options

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can elevate your offer and impact.

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Let's listen in.

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Should you do it?

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Just because someone told you to do

it, a coach or someone in a program,

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or should you do it because you've

seen someone else doing it and you

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think, Oh, someone else is doing it.

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I should be doing it too.

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Do you need to have some kind of

VIP offer next to your main job?

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Offer.

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And are there situations where

you might need it in situations

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where you don't need it?

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What's what's your, what's your thinking?

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I would say that need is a strong word

and we don't really need any of it.

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Right.

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It's, it's what is it that we're trying

to build and what's going to help us

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kind of like feel relaxed and help the

people to, to the best of our ability.

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Right.

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So like VIPs aren't, um, a money grab.

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You know, that they don't have to just

be like some sort of, Oh, let me make

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this even more expensive for somebody.

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Uh, it's very much a case preached.

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That is so common.

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It's like, Oh, well, you know, you're

leaving money on the table if you

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don't have like a higher price point.

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Right.

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Yeah.

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And I'm also leaving money

on the table at 10 a.

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m.

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on a Saturday.

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And I don't care.

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It's Saturday.

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Leave me alone.

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You know, I'm going to be under my duvet.

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So what, the, the, the, as long as

things are a conscious decision,

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you're not doing it wrong.

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There is no wrong.

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There's just doing it your way.

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And like the, the, Ideal concept and

reason behind a VIP, um, bump, like,

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uh, or upgrade off of whatever somebody

wants to call it is to give people

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a higher touch who needs it, right?

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So like, if you have a group program,

that's going to take care of thousands.

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We don't have thousands of calendar

time one on one, but for 15 people,

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we might be able to fit in an hour

call or we, or sometimes like I

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even have a VIP that is a group call

because it is a low ticket mass.

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Audience.

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Yeah.

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So, you know, for the 10 to 50

people that might take me up

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on it, we all come together.

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But for, you know, 500 or a thousand,

that's not really that realistic, right?

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Uh, you know, it's like, it doesn't

matter what zoom plane you're on.

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We're not going to fit.

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So there's, there's that.

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Aspect of it that just kind of, um,

the people who really feel like they

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need that time from you can still

get a bit of that, even if they are

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in that group environment where they

get to learn from each other as well.

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Yeah.

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And also there's situations like if you

are currently a coach and you're moving

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the other way where you're coaching one

to one and you really love it and you

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enjoy it, but you just maxed out with time

and you're bringing in digital products

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to try and You know, help you not have

to rely on that time for money, but you

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still want to be able to offer that.

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It gives you a way where you can

make the transition and you sort of

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can have this, you know, self study

sort of do it yourself program.

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And then for a select few, you can

offer that, you know, that one on one

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so that, like you said, for the people

that need it, and it's not going to be

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everyone, it actually helps you, you

know, help a bigger spectrum of your

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audience, because some people will

always go for the one on one option.

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Thank you, Ada.

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Have the funds.

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They just don't want to deal with the

hassle of having to go through and

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learn something, or they just really

learn best when working with someone.

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Whereas other people, you know, are like,

Oh, just let me do it in my own time.

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I want to study at midnight.

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I don't want to have to

worry about calls and stuff.

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So it's kind of, you know, a way that you

can help more than one type of person.

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Yeah.

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Cause there's also like

privacy things, right?

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Like depending on what you're coaching

people through or the type of human

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that you work with, they might have a

very generic industry standard need,

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but they don't want to talk about it in

the big group, you know, that they have,

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they have their own issues, their own

reasons, their own situations for why

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they're not willing to like hold their

hand up for a hot seat, you know, with 20

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other people, they, they want that more.

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So, I mean, like VIPs.

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Can can be like one on one and just

a Voxer to write like it doesn't

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have to be a dedicated zoom.

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There's lots of ways to give

people that kind of private time.

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So either.

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Talk through what they think are special

circumstances or just give them that safe

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space to feel like that they can actually

kind of offload, you know, what's going

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on in, in relation to what it is that, you

know, that you two have already agreed to

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work with, you know, like with each other

on, uh, you know, and, and go from there.

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I mean, I have a client that, um,

helps people going through a divorce.

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Okay.

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Well, there might be.

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Some places where you're

okay to talk about it.

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And some humans who are sharing it

all on Instagram stories day by day.

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But for a lot of times it's like,

can I join this group anonymously?

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You know, can I add code names?

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Is there someplace I can ask a

question, but you don't call me

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out whenever you go to answer it?

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You know, there's, there's those

kinds of situations that, you

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know, that naturally occur.

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Oh, it's such a nice way to look at it.

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Like instead of it, cause

none of what you've said.

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Is about the money, like

absolutely none of it.

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It is literally about how you can

create these little containers within

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your, you know, what you're doing to

be able to help people with exactly

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where they're at and what they need.

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And this is why I love

talking to you because it's.

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It's kind of taking the focus off

you as the course creator, coach,

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consultant, and putting the focus

on, well, what do people need?

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Like, how can I help them?

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And, you know, turning it into meeting

their solutions rather than being

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like, how can I make this offer?

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Make me more.

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Money, which is unfortunately the

first place that people turn to when

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you are looking at adding that tier.

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Yeah.

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And, and I will say, you know, especially

with, with what I do, profit is not a

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bad word in my world, you know, and I'm

all about like, yeah, you know, and, and,

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and I'm all about like having, um, a, an,

an ethical cost buildup is what they're

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actually called in the finance world.

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Um, and so it's like making sure

that you have those layers in, um,

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Of not just saying, Oh, they get

access to me, therefore it has to

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be four or five figures, but more

it's like, um, this is the time that

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I would be doing something else.

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This is where I'm, I'm already focusing.

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I need to bring in these

other team members.

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I need to outsource this, you know,

there's all these layers in, and it's,

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and that, that's what we mean when we say

like, it's not just a cash grab, right?

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Like it will be a higher price.

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Um, but that is.

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Yeah.

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Like, but that, that is for that access.

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That is also to cover the other

resources versus whenever people just

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look at it, um, not just as a cash

grab, but also as like a velvet rope.

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Yeah, right.

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You know, like, like they're, they're

using, um, they're trying to make up a

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luxury brand or they, they are trying to

kind of like create a poor tax or, um,

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you know, the segment will say that their

audience in, you know, into other people.

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And there's ways to do that without it

being about judging people's wallets.

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Right.

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Yeah, exactly.

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And it also comes Back to like,

what is your motivation for

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doing it in the first place?

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If your motivation is just about money,

you're going to create a different

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offer than if your motivation is about,

well, what, you know, what do people

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in my audience for this product need

to help them be able to, you know,

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implement it better, um, get support.

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If they need extra support,

like you, that's what I mean.

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Like when you were talking about

everything that you mentioned before, it

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was from the perspective of that client

customer student and what they need

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rather than looking at it from yourself.

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However, you know, It's it does

need to be priced at that place.

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That makes it make sense for you.

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Like for me right now, having come

off, you know, months of burnout

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recovery, like I just can't do calls

the way I used to be able to do calls.

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Like, you know, in the past I could

have done four and five calls in a day.

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Sure.

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I would have been tired, but

now two calls that I knew.

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Yeah.

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Like I am absolutely maxed out.

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And if I then, if I had two calls every

day, like a two call, if I have a two

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call day now, I'm like, All right.

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The rest of the day, I can't do much.

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And so I have to account for

that when I'm thinking about

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the price point of doing that.

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And I also have to account for if I can

really only probably fit, I don't know,

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two or three, maybe four people max

in a week or to work with at one time.

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And for you, that might be different.

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Like you might be like,

you're looking at me going.

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Uh, for people like you might be like,

okay, two is enough for my capacity.

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And, and that is completely individual.

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And some people will be like, well, I

can only work with two people at a time.

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And so you have to price that

accordingly because you have to

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then you've got that limitation.

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And that is also okay.

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If that container is.

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Limited to, you know, two, five,

10 people, whatever the case is.

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And then because of that, it is a

substantial investment because you're

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like, well, it takes a lot out of me

to give to you and to support you.

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And I want to do that, but you know,

I need to be compensated for that.

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Right.

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But I mean, it's, it's the cost of what

you're not doing at that time, right?

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Like how you're not using

your time in your business.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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But that's where it's kind of

that tricky thing where you're

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like, Oh, am I chanting too much?

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And it, and it's a case of, if you

start first from what someone needs

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and that is your starting point and

then you work out, well, what is the

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appropriate price rather than going,

I want to have a five figure offer.

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What would I do?

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Like it's a completely different.

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You know, I don't know what you call

it, mindset framing, like whatever

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the, it, it, it, it's a whole different

feel, you know, it's a feel for you.

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It's a different feel for when your

audience receives as much as they

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want, you know, like, like as much

as of, of the, the content as well

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as like the sales promo stuff, how

much that they'll even be willing to

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accept, you know, at, at that, at that

point too, because it very much has.

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Um, has a different, a

different feel to it.

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And even it's one of those things where

like, even if people can't name what

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it is, they know something is off.

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Yeah.

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Right.

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It's yeah.

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Like I always called it

my spidey sense, you know?

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Yeah.

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It's, it's that same thing

with like, Oh, you know, let

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me not walk down that street.

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Let me go down this street instead.

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It's those kinds of things where it's

like something about this feels off.

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It I'm processing this.

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And it's Thousandth of a second,

you know, so like, there's no

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like conscious dialogue going on.

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It's just, I'm going to keep scrolling

or I'm going to click away or I'm

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going to leave the, you know, the

webinar, the zoom meeting, the whatever.

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Yeah.

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And, and I know that we could have

an entire episode on just pricing.

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Um, but we can also have one.

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Could we have an entire episode on the

emotional aspect of decision making

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because what you just described, that

is someone making a decision based on

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an emotion, which it doesn't matter

if you have a 50, 000 sales page by

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the best copywriter in the entire

world and all the bells and whistles.

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If someone had goes emotion,

none of that matters.

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And that's the real thing.

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And even.

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Even when they're logical decision makers,

there's still the emotion underlie, right?

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Because what, what happens on

a subconscious versus conscious

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level is you're trying to talk

yourself into something or trying

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to talk yourself out of something.

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So when, when you, you fall.

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You know, whenever you like just follow

the logic and you're like, Oh, okay.

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These take the boxes when you're actually

in that container, you're miserable.

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You know, like, like that

none of the videos are right.

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All the things are wrong.

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Oh, you know, why couldn't the

community be here instead of there?

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Like you end up with this kind

of like curmudgeon personality

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and you're like, what's going on?

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I really wanted to do this.

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And it's like, Did you?

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Well, that's what I

just wanted to mention.

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I hope we'll, I hope, hope we'll

try and stay on track with this.

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Cause we can have a, we can have

a lot of discussions about all the

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different things, but you were just

saying about how you can end up in that

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place where you're like, Oh, like as

a, you know, as the person and, and

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maybe that's because you're offering

some sort of coaching container as

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an upsell, but you don't really want

to, but you're doing it because.

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Someone on the interwebs said

you should like, you know, is it

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something like, do you always need

to have that extra tea with an

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offer or can you just have an offer?

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And he's the offer like in your opinion.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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I mean, it works the same whether

you're the seller or the buyer.

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Yeah.

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It's that thing of like, like, um,

you never do write your promo emails.

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You never get that stupid real made.

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You never do these things because

it's like, okay, I had this plan.

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I had this template, I had this,

whatever, and I'm going to do it.

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And I just don't do it.

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And then the self shame, the guilt, the

whatever, the what, what's wrong with me?

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Um, why is everybody else doing this?

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And I'm not, and it's like,

There's nothing wrong with you.

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It's just a massive sign that

that's not the right one for you.

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And that can be right now.

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It can just be, I don't want to add

this to this offer, but it might be

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the right strategy for another offer.

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Right.

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We don't have to cookie

cutter every single offer.

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We don't have to always have

a VIP date or never have it.

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We're Goldilocks, right?

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We get to have that sweet middle point.

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Because it's our business,

we get to decide and we get

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to decide every single time.

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We get to choose what

everything looks like.

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And also it could be that you think

you've got to add some sort of one on

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one as your VIP to you, because again,

that's what you see other people doing.

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But it's also good to think about you

as a As a person, like, do you even

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want to have any, because there is no

shame and no any shade or whatever,

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and not ever offering anything.

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One on one like your VIP team

might just come with, you know,

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additional bonuses and resources.

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If you decide to offer it, it doesn't

always need to be about coaching.

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And I, and I have found that a lot of,

you know, things when it leads into

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that is really leaning towards coaching.

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Um, and yeah, it can,

there's other options.

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What, um, have you seen that?

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Um, you know, isn't coaching,

but is a way to sort of have that

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elevated, more supportive way.

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Um, yeah.

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And you can kind of think about it.

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You know, like a bundle at that point.

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Right.

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So I've, I've done them

personally, as well as like

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seeing them done with my clients.

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Um, so like one, I said that

one option was a group call.

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So that is still a coaching element,

but it is, you know, like, um,

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um, everybody there together.

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And what I do for mine, not that

anybody else has to do this, but is

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I then promise them that they, they

will have like a laser coaching time,

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you know, if they come on it, right.

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So it's still a group,

but I will stay there.

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And it may be in time

to, yeah, yeah, yeah.

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In time to talk to everybody.

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Right.

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Um, the other option is like a VIP.

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You also get, um, you know, the, this

other course that I have, um, you get

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access to, you know, to the group Voxer

channel, you get access to basically

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it, it's a way to, um, Have access,

not just to more material, right?

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Cause we're not students,

we're business owners.

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Yeah.

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And, and it, but it's a way to get

access to a different community as well.

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Yeah.

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Right.

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You know, um, so it's not just

like a bunch of people that may

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or may not be in like a student

Facebook group or something, but

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it's a dedicated group where it's

like, they can share their wins.

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They can share their questions.

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They can learn from each other.

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And have kind of that taste of like a

peer mastermind situation where, you know,

351

:

where they're going off of each other.

352

:

And then I'm also there to

facilitate as much as I am or am not.

353

:

Right.

354

:

I think that I've seen is, um, where

you have a self study program and you

355

:

sell it as self study on, on evergreen.

356

:

And then you maybe like once

or twice a year offer a live.

357

:

Version of that where you actually

have that implementation focus, and

358

:

maybe you go through it as a group

for like four weeks or six weeks.

359

:

And it's kind of turning that

evergreen product into a cohort,

360

:

but not everyone wants to do that.

361

:

So it's an additional price point for

that kind of guided version of the course.

362

:

So it's not that the course is different.

363

:

It's just that instead of someone

just going off on their own, they get

364

:

to have that experience of doing it

with a group of other people, which

365

:

is, you know, always motivating.

366

:

And for some people it's what they need.

367

:

Others are just like.

368

:

Just leave me to my own devices.

369

:

I want to go through everything

on triple speed and get it

370

:

done by the end of the week.

371

:

And you know, for those people that do

want that implementation and they do want

372

:

that, Hey, let's get this done by the end

of the week, it can help give motivation.

373

:

And that's a way of

differentiating between two offers.

374

:

And yeah.

375

:

And the one that I was thinking

of was duh for my quiz program.

376

:

Oh, um, my, my VIP option there is

not actually more access to Yeah.

377

:

Yeah.

378

:

Yeah.

379

:

It's, it's not more access to me.

380

:

It's access to tech experts.

381

:

Yeah.

382

:

Nice.

383

:

Right.

384

:

Because, I mean, And instead of charging

more for the entire program and bringing

385

:

those people in for everybody, it's a

way to say, you know, I have my team.

386

:

I have my designer or I

have this under control.

387

:

I don't need that part

versus I've tried on my own.

388

:

Can one of you do it?

389

:

Right.

390

:

And so it's bringing in the platform

people, it's bringing the designer

391

:

and it's bringing in a VA group where,

so like whichever aspect of that you

392

:

need, you pay one bundle price with

the actual group program, um, which

393

:

of course has payment options as well.

394

:

But then that way it's like a

holistic pricing to get whatever

395

:

part of that, that they need.

396

:

So it's.

397

:

I mean, you could kind of think of it

like coaching, but it's not for me.

398

:

It's from the people who know what

they're talking about in that area

399

:

coming in to help and to supplement.

400

:

And you've already vetted those people

and it saves the job of someone having

401

:

to then go and recruit and find,

which is a whole thing in itself.

402

:

Yes.

403

:

So like I have a tech person.

404

:

To sometimes to find the tech person

takes more work than the actual tech.

405

:

And so if you were finding the right one.

406

:

Yeah, exactly.

407

:

And so if you can say, Hey, I can shortcut

your time by saying, here's this person.

408

:

They'll help you implement.

409

:

That's a really great incentive.

410

:

And it's not on you then as the, you

know, as the, as the business owner

411

:

to provide more resources, which

you may not have the capacity for.

412

:

And that's a nice way to sort of

add value without it necessarily

413

:

being you adding more of you.

414

:

Yeah.

415

:

Yeah.

416

:

And in, in my example, I was laughing

because, uh, it's not a capacity thing.

417

:

It's a knowledge thing.

418

:

. . Like, because you call on your tech.

419

:

I've never touched tech expert.

420

:

Yeah, exactly.

421

:

Yeah.

422

:

Yeah.

423

:

I was, I was like, it's you

for Kajabi, I have someone that

424

:

does WordPress and Squarespace.

425

:

Like it's the same human that does both.

426

:

Yeah.

427

:

Um, you know, and then like the canvas

side and then the VA people to tick the

428

:

boxes and put it in because they're, and

they're not just, um, you know, 'cause

429

:

VA isn't a job title, it's an industry.

430

:

Right?

431

:

And, and so it's a case of it's

someone who actually knows how to

432

:

use the quiz program, actually knows

how to use, you know, whatever your

433

:

email provider is actually knows how

to use whatever your website provider

434

:

is to plug all those pieces in.

435

:

So it's, it's a lot quicker.

436

:

And because I get to come to them and

say, Hey, can you do this for my people?

437

:

Then I get to create a bundle price

that again, if someone was doing that

438

:

on their own, Who knows what kind

of rates they would have, what kind

439

:

of trial and error there would be.

440

:

They would feel like they were writing,

you know, um, like, like, uh, doing

441

:

four invoices instead of just paying

one, you know, all that kind of stuff.

442

:

So that is another like real

life example of a VIP offer.

443

:

That's not coaching, not for me.

444

:

And a lot of people for a lot of people,

they value their time really strongly.

445

:

And they will always go for that.

446

:

You'll have this, you know,

percentage of your audience.

447

:

Even if you're, it doesn't matter what

niche you're in, there will always

448

:

be some small part of your audience

that will just immediately be like, Oh

449

:

yeah, I want someone to do it for me.

450

:

Or like, I just want the quickest path.

451

:

And if the, the path, this, you

know, VOP path is going to get me

452

:

there quicker or get me there better

or help me more than they'll just

453

:

be like, Oh, I'll just take that.

454

:

Option.

455

:

And it's, you know, easy.

456

:

And sometimes as well, I think we can

forget as a business owners, if we

457

:

aren't the type of person to do that

because we are quite self-sufficient.

458

:

It's easy to forget that other people

in our audience don't think like us.

459

:

Um, and I come across, you know, a

probably more so for me in my audience

460

:

because there's a lot of people that

are newer and, you know, uh, perhaps a

461

:

bit stretched for resources and going,

oh, I've had to pay for this course

462

:

and that course and this software.

463

:

And they're trying to, and this software.

464

:

And software.

465

:

Yeah.

466

:

And they're trying to

keep costs under control.

467

:

So the VIP option isn't

always the natural choice.

468

:

And especially if you, as the,

as the creator, like for you,

469

:

you might be in that situation.

470

:

So your mindset, it's, it's

just one of those things.

471

:

I think it's really important with

pricing in general is not to base your

472

:

pricing decisions on what you as a person

think and actually get the feedback.

473

:

From your audience and your

customers about what they think,

474

:

because often it's so different.

475

:

And, um, you know, we can go into a

whole nother thing, all about pricing.

476

:

I'm sure we will have many chats

about pricing, but I just thought,

477

:

just, you know, just remember that

if you are considering, especially

478

:

if you're doing something, you're

like, Oh, that seems so expensive.

479

:

It's okay.

480

:

If it seems expensive for you, because

you are not your ideal customer, your

481

:

ideal customer is, you know, someone

potentially in your audience who values.

482

:

Time, perhaps over money and speed and

execution and ease of implementation.

483

:

So like you just said, they don't

have to go and do four enforcers

484

:

and find four freelancers and,

and go through the hassle.

485

:

They might be like, I avoid hassle

and I pay for that privilege.

486

:

Whereas you might be like, I, I.

487

:

Can handle the hassle

because I'm on a budget.

488

:

So, yeah.

489

:

Yeah.

490

:

And it's that classic trade

off with business, right?

491

:

It's, it's always, um, uh, like

your two most viable resources

492

:

is your money and your time.

493

:

Yeah, exactly.

494

:

Sometimes you have more of

one than the other, right?

495

:

So we just kind of play to

whatever advantage that we have.

496

:

And so for, for all of you listening

to us, um, ask yourself, are,

497

:

are the people that you're going

after, is it different people?

498

:

For each of your different offers,

or is it the same human that's

499

:

at a different time each time?

500

:

Right.

501

:

Because I can tell you

that I am at a point now.

502

:

I am so tired of learning things.

503

:

I just want somebody else to do it.

504

:

Whereas in the beginning, it wasn't

just like a question of, do I have

505

:

more time or do I have more money?

506

:

Which one do I want to leverage?

507

:

Which one do I want to use?

508

:

It was also a case of,

Oh, this is interesting.

509

:

I want to learn what this is.

510

:

Yeah.

511

:

You know, or this is my area of expertise,

but here's a whole other like, you know,

512

:

lane that I haven't experienced yet.

513

:

So I need to learn it in order to

help when I am coaching other people.

514

:

And now I'm like, I don't, I

don't, I don't need to learn

515

:

the 15, 000 depths of Canva.

516

:

It doesn't excite me.

517

:

Other people absolutely love it.

518

:

Great.

519

:

Yeah.

520

:

I, I go down such, such long, long rabbit

holes or rabbit warrens, I think of, of

521

:

things where it's like trying to find one

stupid picture and I look up and it's been

522

:

45 minutes and there there's that case

of like, oh, okay, I can use this one,

523

:

but, but I'm, there may be another one.

524

:

Let me keep scrolling.

525

:

There may.

526

:

I mean, this scroll bar has to end, right?

527

:

I'm so far down.

528

:

I mean, I have to almost be to the end.

529

:

Right.

530

:

Okay.

531

:

Yeah.

532

:

Hour and 15 minutes later.

533

:

I still haven't picked the stupid picture.

534

:

To, to do that for you makes sense.

535

:

For you.

536

:

Yeah.

537

:

In the beginning, you might've

been like, Oh no, I really want

538

:

to learn how to, how to do this.

539

:

And that's where it's, you know,

I'll go back to what you were talking

540

:

about right in the beginning when

you were sort of thinking about,

541

:

well, what is my client need?

542

:

Like what does the person who this offer

for, like what do they need and not make

543

:

it about you and, and what you think is

appropriate, like really look at them

544

:

and how your offer can support them.

545

:

I love what you said about like,

well, what place are they at?

546

:

On their, on their journey.

547

:

And, and do you have almost like with the

one offer, like two different parts of

548

:

your audience, like you've got that part

of your audience that's, you know, like,

549

:

Oh no, you know, learn this and dig in.

550

:

And then you've got part of your

audience that's like, well, I want to

551

:

learn this, but I also just want to

shortcut this whole process and get

552

:

it done as quickly as, as possible.

553

:

But that's still learning the same thing.

554

:

Like with your quizzes program, for

example, like you've got people who

555

:

want to learn a quiz and then you've got

people who want to learn it, but they

556

:

also just want to get their thing done.

557

:

Like, Now.

558

:

Yeah.

559

:

Yeah.

560

:

And, and it's also a case of like, like

looking for those of you who've been in

561

:

business for, you know, like at least

a year or I've done at least like a

562

:

couple of, you know, launches and, and

offers have gone out into the world.

563

:

Then, um, are you noticing that you

are getting like a new crop of people

564

:

each time, because someone may graduate

from your services and it's time for

565

:

them to move on to somewhere else.

566

:

Or are you noticing that even if that

was what you had intended, you having

567

:

these like loyal group of people that

are hanging out with you almost for every

568

:

single offer and you're not expecting it.

569

:

Right.

570

:

So it can be that, that, that

place where it's like, Oh, hang on.

571

:

Are they, I thought I was just helping

the people at the beginning, but now

572

:

these people who already went through my

beginning are still with me and they're

573

:

still buying stuff, you know, so they're,

they're at that, that different evolution.

574

:

They need that different layer of,

um, you know, of support and, and, uh,

575

:

different kind of, I mean, we change

as business owners and we kind of will

576

:

evolve our own offers and kind of move

away with things or add other things.

577

:

But we, we often have, um, uh, at least

a little subset of people that are very

578

:

loyal and they're coming with us too.

579

:

And that, that's a great

opportunity for you to say, Okay.

580

:

Then do I want to provide something

for them or do I want to like bless and

581

:

release and let them graduate on and refer

them to the other things because I want to

582

:

stay in, you know, at this certain stage.

583

:

Right.

584

:

And your VIP bumps can help with that.

585

:

Like it, you know, you can, you can help

then make sure that those people feel

586

:

ready to move on somewhere else, or you

can keep a core offer and experiment

587

:

with what that next level offer

would, would look like for the that,

588

:

that are still hanging out with you.

589

:

Yeah.

590

:

And because sometimes that next level,

like what you're making a VIP option

591

:

is actually its whole own thing.

592

:

And it doesn't necessarily need

to be an option for this offer.

593

:

It can be like a

graduation, like you said.

594

:

So it can be like, do you, do you need

to have that even on there or do you just

595

:

need to have that as a standalone thing?

596

:

That's completely separate its

own sales page, its own, you know.

597

:

Yeah.

598

:

And the answer can be yes to both, right?

599

:

Yeah.

600

:

Cause like you could use that, that

VIP option to test, to experiment, to

601

:

try out a new offer without it needing

to stand on its own, just to see if

602

:

you're seeing like, like, you know, that

your humans kind of, kind of, um, self

603

:

separate and pick where they want to be.

604

:

And one of my, my favorite ways

is if you're like, Oh, I really

605

:

want to make this a bonus.

606

:

I really want to make this a VIP.

607

:

I really want to do this and it

doesn't actually have any direct link.

608

:

Put it in the FAQs and make your question

of, is this going to help me with.

609

:

insert what this other option is actually

going to help people with and then tell

610

:

them say no actually this program is for

blah blah blah if you're looking for help

611

:

with blah blah blah then click here and

then they can go and they can see that

612

:

other one so you aren't um overwhelming

people you're not offer stacking for

613

:

no reason you know and you're keeping

things kind of like clean and you know

614

:

And still directing, you know, your, your

humans to where they want to go so they

615

:

can still self select and choose and not

feel like they have to take this offer

616

:

and hopefully it will do what they want.

617

:

Yeah.

618

:

Yeah.

619

:

My gosh, we could talk about this for

hours, but because we're talking about

620

:

having those like tears, the last thing

that I want to cover off is how do

621

:

you make the tears different enough?

622

:

Because I've had a lot of experiences

where, um, Where I've seen where

623

:

you have program a and then option,

you know, option a and option B and.

624

:

And it being that they're not different

enough so people can get confused,

625

:

especially if your original offer,

like, and I see this, um, quite often

626

:

with membership programs where the

initial membership comes with some

627

:

kind of, um, coaching or support.

628

:

And then the, the second offer just

comes with more coaching and support.

629

:

And.

630

:

You know, just wondering

your thoughts around it.

631

:

Cause I can, I find it sometimes a

little bit confusing, both if I'm

632

:

deciding to join a membership program

going, well, do I even need that one?

633

:

Am I going to get that

in the, in the first one?

634

:

Like, what is the benefit to me?

635

:

And, um, yeah, I think it's

something that you can get stuck on.

636

:

And I think also it comes from

that same place of like, Oh,

637

:

well, so and so coach said.

638

:

I should have a high ticket

or a high tier offer.

639

:

And then you're creating it to meet

your need for a high tier rather

640

:

than from the customer's perspective.

641

:

But what's your thoughts around that, you

know, that situation where it's kind of a

642

:

slightly better version of the same thing.

643

:

And you actually, um, said it

in the words that you used.

644

:

You said, what's in it for me?

645

:

Where's the benefit?

646

:

And this is a case where even in

your pricing card as the customer,

647

:

you mean like, like the what for me?

648

:

Yeah.

649

:

Like, like, you know, e even in

the pricing card, even whenever you

650

:

are, you know, listing with your

little plus signs or your check

651

:

marks or whatever you wanna use.

652

:

Yeah.

653

:

You know?

654

:

And, and that is classically

listing features.

655

:

Yeah.

656

:

The part above has to be a

description of who needs it.

657

:

So you're calling out the

characteristics of who's right for

658

:

this versus who's right for that.

659

:

Yeah.

660

:

Right.

661

:

And this is also your place

to set up expectations.

662

:

So if we go back to that example of

like these loyal people that you thought

663

:

would have already moved on and yet here

they are year three, then it's like,

664

:

if you're someone who's already three

plus years into business and you're

665

:

really wanting a higher level focus

of blah, blah, blah, choose this one.

666

:

If you're someone who feels like

you have, um, you know, private

667

:

circumstances or situations, or you

need to move faster than what the

668

:

program schedule is, choose this one.

669

:

Yeah.

670

:

So, you know, I mean, like you were

straight up calling out, um, who is it

671

:

right for, but by your criteria as the

creator, because that's who you want to

672

:

serve in this group versus that group.

673

:

But also, so they're like, Oh, okay.

674

:

I clearly see this.

675

:

This is a membership.

676

:

It has group coaching.

677

:

I don't feel like I need the one

on one private once a month or the

678

:

Voxer access or the whatever else,

um, because all of these things fit

679

:

me, or I really want this membership.

680

:

I'm glad that we have full access to

stuff instead of things being dripped out,

681

:

but I'm not fully sure where to start.

682

:

Start or I'm trying to

launch this promo right now.

683

:

So I need extra help, but

then I want to work on this

684

:

other thing in the background.

685

:

Great.

686

:

Here's an SOS Voxer access for you.

687

:

Well, it on, on like the, um, a

separate episode for pricing, something

688

:

that I keep not saying, because I'm

like, it's going to be a whole other

689

:

episode is like, what bonuses do I add?

690

:

You know, why do I do this?

691

:

Why do I do that?

692

:

So it, whenever you're thinking about

a VIP offer, It's also a case of like

693

:

the bundle example I gave earlier,

is it something that's going to help

694

:

somebody achieve the original promise

then tick the box and make that a

695

:

bonus, make that an extra thing that

they're going to get because it's going

696

:

to elevate, um, what you already told

them that they're going to get right

697

:

in setting up those expectations versus

thinking, um, Oh, I could give them.

698

:

You know, a group call in a month

and access to an evergreen product

699

:

that I already have as a VIP.

700

:

And it's like, okay, one, do those relate?

701

:

How does it help them get that original

promise that you put all the way at

702

:

the top of the page, the whole thing

that you've been saying on socials

703

:

and in all of your lives and every

other mechanisms that you're using.

704

:

Um, and if it doesn't hit that, then.

705

:

Put it down in FAQ and let them decide

which one do they need, um, or decide,

706

:

okay, no, this needs to be in the program.

707

:

It needs to be a bonus.

708

:

It's not a part of the core content,

but it's something they need or

709

:

it doesn't have a place at all.

710

:

And I need to save this for

a separate promo, right?

711

:

Like you were saying earlier.

712

:

Yeah.

713

:

And I think it's such a good exercise

to go through with what you're saying.

714

:

Like.

715

:

Think for yourself.

716

:

Like if you had to just write it

down, if someone asked you, if they

717

:

got on a, on a call and they were

like, well, this is my situation.

718

:

Is it right for me?

719

:

Like, can you answer someone?

720

:

Can, if someone said to you,

which option should I choose?

721

:

Can you go, Oh, you're in this situation.

722

:

You should choose that.

723

:

Or you're in that situation.

724

:

You should choose that.

725

:

So actually really thinking

about it from that.

726

:

Who is this rightful with your own offer?

727

:

Like thinking, well,

who is that version for?

728

:

And who is that version for?

729

:

And then literally calling that out,

it's going to enable if you can't do it.

730

:

Then there is absolutely no way in

hell your potential customer client

731

:

student is going to be able to do it.

732

:

So it's a, it's a nice exercise to go

through to see, am I being clear enough?

733

:

Yeah.

734

:

And it is a flag for yourself to

realize that you haven't fully

735

:

fleshed out your offer yet.

736

:

Exactly, right, which is okay.

737

:

You can be in the middle

of or like in prelaunch.

738

:

Hopefully you're not all the way to

promo time, but you know, like, like

739

:

you can be in prelaunch and you're,

you're trying to, you know, make sure

740

:

your page is all done and trying to

get all the final details going and

741

:

then be like, Oh, I'm not really sure.

742

:

Okay, great.

743

:

Go back to what you wrote or someone

wrote for you on the page and see

744

:

who are you already calling out?

745

:

What expectations are you already setting?

746

:

And have you put all of the materials,

all of the things, all of the time in

747

:

place to tick those boxes before you

ever worry about adding anything else?

748

:

Yeah, exactly.

749

:

Exactly.

750

:

Yeah.

751

:

That's what helps people

feel like you can add later.

752

:

Like you don't have to

do it right off the bat.

753

:

It can be like, Oh, well this

launch, I'm going to keep it simple.

754

:

And then next launch, I'm going to see

like, especially if it's a new program,

755

:

like, where are people getting stuck?

756

:

Like, what am I getting people going?

757

:

Oh, I wish you did that.

758

:

And you might decide to put that

in the original offer, or you might

759

:

be like, Oh, that is the perfect

thing that I could have is that

760

:

accelerated or enhanced, you know,

761

:

It's like the, the, keep it simple.

762

:

If you can't like be super clear

about it, then just leave it off

763

:

and, you know, bring it in later.

764

:

You can offer it as, you know,

a separate program and upsell.

765

:

There's so many different ways that you

can sell something else down the track.

766

:

Like don't put something in just

because you think you should.

767

:

Yeah, you know, like you can

straight up gift it and be like,

768

:

Hey, I've been hearing from a

lot of you that this is going on.

769

:

I think this is going to help.

770

:

So I'm going to go ahead and you know,

everybody's going to get access to

771

:

this and I'm going to do a special

live in our group, you know, community

772

:

and let you know how this fits in.

773

:

Yeah.

774

:

You know, like there, there's lots

of different ways that you can do it.

775

:

And then in the next launch, it can be

something that you're, you know, that

776

:

you're charging for that year or whatever.

777

:

But, um, and that, that leads to

yet another, we'll save it for a

778

:

different episode of, of talking

about surveying your people, when to

779

:

do it, what to ask, how to ask it.

780

:

It is, it's beyond satisfaction

and it's beyond just testimonials.

781

:

You can do both at the same time.

782

:

And, and that's all I'll say about that.

783

:

Yeah.

784

:

I know.

785

:

And then I'm like, Oh, that's opening

up a whole nother, um, Episode about,

786

:

um, doing things because you think

it's like being so worried about

787

:

setting up the perfect offer or the

right offer or doing something wrong.

788

:

There is no right or wrong.

789

:

There is an offer.

790

:

You see how that lands and then

you tweak, adjust, keep the

791

:

same, whatever for the next time.

792

:

And that comes back to surveying.

793

:

So just, you know, if you're

stressing out about it, just.

794

:

Pick, pick a lane, stick in that lane.

795

:

And then next time you

can pick a different lane.

796

:

There is no, you know, you were

going to have more than one

797

:

launch, more than one product, more

than one offer in your business.

798

:

So don't be so fixated on getting it

right and getting it perfect that you

799

:

don't put anything out there like.

800

:

Just do it.

801

:

And then you can do it again and again

and again and again, like, and yeah,

802

:

I know that especially if you haven't

launched before, you feel like this first

803

:

launch or the first product that you

put out there, like if you don't get it

804

:

right, your entire business and future

success, everybody's going to hate you.

805

:

And yeah.

806

:

Yeah.

807

:

Yeah.

808

:

And, and that, that is what, that

is, well, and that, that is just

809

:

a fear and a doom spiral, right?

810

:

Because the more open, the more human

you are with people, like, you know,

811

:

afterwards you can say like, send the

email to all the people that didn't buy

812

:

and be like, you know, thanks so much for

sticking with me through this promo time.

813

:

It was actually a bit of a back and

forth between do people need this?

814

:

Do they not?

815

:

If you have a strong opinion,

please hit reply and let me know.

816

:

Otherwise know that I am always thinking

about how I can make this better.

817

:

And I appreciate you just

being in my community.

818

:

Yeah.

819

:

And, you know, and that's just sending

them an email saying, thanks for being

820

:

there, but also showing it's like, you

are actually wondering what do they need,

821

:

which is a cue for them to give you more.

822

:

Right.

823

:

Uh, you know, and, and, uh, above

all, like the greatest litmus test for

824

:

all of this is just to remember that

everything is a suggestion, even what

825

:

the two of us are saying right now, it

is all a suggestion for you to take on.

826

:

And.

827

:

You know, I, I really, I understand.

828

:

Yeah.

829

:

You know, and, and I understand and I

feel that there's a lot of pressure,

830

:

you know, with what we're doing.

831

:

And so we feel like every single

dollar, every single, you know, um,

832

:

piece of, of option, every single

person that comes on our email list

833

:

that may end up hating us, you know,

all these kinds of, of, um, real, yeah.

834

:

Like it makes everything

feel like it's do or die.

835

:

And we can promise you after

all of our years of combined and

836

:

individual experience that it's not.

837

:

And if you treat people like

humans, they will forgive.

838

:

They will forget.

839

:

They will move on.

840

:

Some people will love you forever.

841

:

And never buy from you or not need

to consume your content because they

842

:

already know you in an other way, right?

843

:

So it, whenever you're feeling

all of that kind of pressure of,

844

:

I have to do what this guru says,

because I have to pay my mortgage

845

:

and I have to get these things done.

846

:

And this, and if this doesn't look

right, my business is going to fail.

847

:

Um, that, that is that, that

fear part coming in and that's a

848

:

time when you got to step back.

849

:

You got to go to whatever network you

have, you know, your, your family,

850

:

your partner, your friends, yourself

in a tree, you know, hug a tree.

851

:

It does a lot of good.

852

:

You know, it's like what, whatever, um,

is in there to kind of, uh, Separate

853

:

that and realize that, yeah, your

money may be, may be tight right now.

854

:

It may be a case of you feel embarrassed

or you feel shame of what someone's

855

:

going to think about how well you did

or didn't do, or whether you're going

856

:

to get to put out a, a successful

launch post in some group or whatever.

857

:

But.

858

:

Your health, your mindset, your, you

know, like all of that safety parts for

859

:

you matters more and the rest will work

itself out like we don't have to put.

860

:

You know, our, our newborn babies,

you know, college money on our very

861

:

first offer that we put out there.

862

:

Right.

863

:

And, and that, that can be very

difficult to separate yourself from,

864

:

but the sooner that you start to do

that, The, the less bumpy your entire

865

:

entrepreneurial journey will be.

866

:

So that was a little PSA, Sue.

867

:

Sorry.

868

:

I had to make sure to get

that in for everybody.

869

:

I will.

870

:

And it, one of the easiest ways to

get out of that spiral is to, to take

871

:

the focus off your needs and what you

want and put it onto your audience.

872

:

Like what does my audience need

and how can I help them with it?

873

:

Rather than going, Oh, it's like.

874

:

Like doomsday and, and, you

know, like, that's what you said

875

:

right back in the beginning, like

when you were even crafting the

876

:

offer, like, what do they need?

877

:

How will this help?

878

:

And yeah, that, that makes you then get

the focus off of that, that you stuff

879

:

and in the most important place, which

is with your customers and, and what

880

:

they need so that you can create things

to, to support them that also support

881

:

you too, which is the whole beautiful.

882

:

Thank you for joining me here in

cocktails, coffee, and conversations.

883

:

Be sure to check out the show notes

for all the links mentioned today.

884

:

And while you're there, I'd love

for you to rate and review the show.

885

:

And if you have a topic or question you

want me to answer, I want to hear it.

886

:

Head to Tracie Patterson.

887

:

com slash AMA and ask me

anything about business.

888

:

If I don't know it, I'll bring it

up with one of my guests until next

889

:

week, be well and have some fun.

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