Shownotes
Dead Air's Mike Pappas joins State of the Second hosts John and Kaylee to clear up what most people get wrong about suppressors, starting with the Hollywood myth that they make a gun whisper-quiet. As Pappas puts it, that sound is "a made up sound effect." He walks through the real tradeoffs of owning a can, the added length, weight, heat, cost, and the wait time, and explains why the benefits still win out: hearing protection, a better shooting experience, and being a more considerate neighbor at the range.
Pappas shares how he got into the industry. He started as an auto mechanic who was always into guns, managed a gun store in Salt Lake, was one of the original people who started SilencerCo where he spent about five years, and then launched Dead Air in 2014 with Eric Rogers, doing their first SHOT Show in 2015. He breaks down the regulatory reality of building suppressors under a manufacturing FFL with an SOT, the Form 2 and Form 3 paperwork, and the $200 stamp. He's candid that some of the rules don't make sense to him, but the company follows them to the letter.
The conversation turns political and cultural. Pappas and the hosts discuss the SHUSH Act and Senator Mike Lee's push to take suppressors off the NFA registry to Title One, what deregulation would mean for the market, and why suppressor hunting is expanding state by state. Kaylee makes the case that gun owner inaction is the real threat, pointing to record-setting comment campaigns against rules like the universal background check rule, the Green Tip ammo ban attempt, and the frame and receiver serialization push. They close on community: events like CanCon, Thunder Beast's open suppressor data gathering, and Red October, and the idea that video games and movies are an on-ramp that gets new people interested in the real thing. Pappas points listeners to deadairarmament.com.
Links
Questions this episode answers
Why don't real suppressors sound like the quiet ones in movies and video games?
Mike Pappas says the near-silent gunshot you hear in Hollywood is a made-up sound effect, and that a real suppressor is not anywhere close to that. A can reduces the report enough to protect hearing and improve the shooting experience, but it does not make a gun whisper-quiet.
How did Mike Pappas get into the silencer business and start Dead Air?
Pappas was an auto mechanic who was always into guns, then managed a gun store in Salt Lake and became one of the original people who started SilencerCo, where he spent about five years. He launched Dead Air in 2014 with Eric Rogers and did the company's first SHOT Show in 2015.
What paperwork and licensing does a company need to manufacture suppressors?
A company builds suppressors under a manufacturing FFL with an SOT, files Form 2 and Form 3 paperwork, and the customer's transfer carries the $200 tax stamp. Pappas admits some of the rules don't make sense to him, but Dead Air follows them to the letter.
What would the SHUSH Act and moving suppressors to Title One mean for the industry?
The SHUSH Act and Senator Mike Lee's push would take suppressors off the National Firearms Act registry and treat them as Title One items, removing the $200 stamp and the long wait. Pappas calls that wait the biggest barrier to entry for any silencer company, so deregulation would open the market.
Why is suppressor hunting becoming legal in more states?
Suppressor hunting is expanding state by state as more legislatures allow it, part of the broader shift toward treating cans as normal gear. Pappas frames suppressor use as being a more considerate, polite neighbor to your fellow shooters.
Why does gun owner inaction matter, and how have ATF comment periods been beaten back?
Host Kaylee argues that gun owner inaction is the real threat to the Second Amendment, and that record-setting comment campaigns beat back rules like the universal background check rule, the Green Tip ammo ban attempt, and the frame and receiver serialization push.
Why are new gun owners fast-tracking straight to suppressors and higher-end gear?
The episode discusses how new gun owners are skipping ahead to suppressors and higher-end gear rather than working up to them slowly. Video games and movies act as an on-ramp that gets new people interested in the real thing.
What do events like CanCon, Thunder Beast, and Red October do for the suppressor community?
Events like CanCon and Red October, along with Thunder Beast's open gathering of suppressor data, let people try cans firsthand and build community around them. Pappas points listeners to deadairarmament.com to learn more about Dead Air.
Chapters
- 00:00 — What deregulation would mean for the market
- 00:29 — Meet Mike Pappas of Dead Air
- 01:16 — From SilencerCo to starting Dead Air
- 03:04 — How Mike got into silencers
- 05:18 — ATF rules, FFL/SOT, and the paperwork
- 07:03 — The SHUSH Act and the wait-time barrier
- 08:11 — Why new owners go straight to suppressors
- 11:32 — Suppressor hunting expanding across states
- 12:48 — Senator Mike Lee and the NFA fight
- 18:21 — Comment periods and gun owner inaction
- 22:51 — Dispelling the Hollywood-quiet myth
- 25:59 — Could firearms be erased from media?
- 31:08 — Thunder Beast and how suppressor data is gathered
- 32:50 — CanCon, range days, and trying it yourself
- 39:46 — Where to find Dead Air
About the guest
Mike Pappas is from Dead Air, a suppressor company he started in 2014 with Eric Rogers; the company did its first SHOT Show in 2015. He was one of the original people who started SilencerCo, where he spent about five years. Before that he made his living as an auto mechanic, was always into guns, and got into the firearms business by managing a gun store in Salt Lake. He is based in Utah and runs a small YouTube channel of his own. Dead Air's website is deadairarmament.com.
Key quotes
"Fighting mistruth is the struggle of mankind." — Mike Pappas
"it's not anywhere close to Hollywood" — Mike Pappas
"The biggest barrier to entry for any silencer company is the wait time." — Mike Pappas
"inaction on our part will always bring the greatest form of destruction to the second amendment." — Kaylee
"Every new rule is a new restriction." — Mike Pappas
"I think it just goes to be more polite and a better neighbor to your fellow men." — Mike Pappas
Transcripts
As a manufacturer of silencer suppressors, if they were to be pulled off of the NFA registry with the title one.
Speaker A:Yeah, to.
Speaker A:To just title one to what the is in Congress now is the Shush Act.
Speaker A:You know, what would that mean for you guys as a business?
Speaker B:Well, it would obviously mean our market would open up.
Speaker A:We have Mike Pappas from Dead Air.
Speaker A:Silencer.
Speaker A:Mike, how are you today?
Speaker B:I'm wonderful.
Speaker B:Thanks for having me on.
Speaker B:I can't believe that you couldn't find a quality guest, but I appreciate the opportunity to be here.
Speaker A:We appreciate you being here.
Speaker A:We really do.
Speaker A:Mike, can you give us a little bit of backstory about Dead Air, how the company started, all that other fun jazz for people who may not know?
Speaker C:Sure.
Speaker B:How far back would you like me to go?
Speaker B:One previous silencer company or start at the start of Dead Air?
Speaker A:Wherever you want to go with it.
Speaker A:I think people just love hearing the story about these companies from the.
Speaker A:From the start to the finish.
Speaker B:Okay, I'll go back one.
Speaker B:I'll make it quick.
Speaker B:Hopefully this doesn't bore anybody too bad.
Speaker B:I'm one of the original people that started Silencer Co, which went along wonderfully for, I believe.
Speaker B:I was there for like five years.
Speaker B:And I went home one evening.
Speaker B:We just didn't.
Speaker B:Not like I have any ill will or anything.
Speaker B:I think we just had a core based difference in how to handle money and what to do with money and how to run a business.
Speaker B:Let's say no one's right or wrong, but let's say I'm more right just for the sake of this conversation.
Speaker B:If we can do that.
Speaker B:I told Mrs. Pappas it was Halloween of 13.
Speaker B:I told her I got fired today.
Speaker B:Like, I think I don't work at SilencerCo anymore.
Speaker B:And she was like, there's no way you can't get fired.
Speaker B:You're an owner.
Speaker B:And I'm like, yeah, I thought that too, but I really think I am.
Speaker B:So at any rate, I went along and I ended up while I was at Silent Circle, I met Eric Rogers.
Speaker B:And Eric and I started talking.
Speaker B:He called me about it was probably in December, maybe January after that.
Speaker B:And he asked if I wanted to do another silencer company.
Speaker B:And I was like, I kind of do.
Speaker B:So that's how Dead Air started.
Speaker B:And I believe that was.
Speaker B:We started in 14 and the first shot show we did was in 15, so.
Speaker B:And then we've been, you know, trying to do our thing since then, as it were.
Speaker B:Thankfully, people buy product and let us stay in business.
Speaker A:What made you get into the silencer business to begin with.
Speaker B:Okay, I'm going to go back a little further than I said I would before.
Speaker B:Sorry.
Speaker B:I made my living as an auto mechanic, always super into guns.
Speaker B: And prior to the: Speaker B: were born, there was a ban in: Speaker B:85, However you want to say it, whatever time you want to pick.
Speaker B:After the ban lifted, it started to get some interest in 94 when they banned them.
Speaker B: And after the ban lifted in: Speaker B:But it just so happened to be that my interest and the degree that I kind of got into that say it gave me the advantage of knowing more than the average person.
Speaker B:And then I very easily kind of rolled into get some in Salt Lake and started to manage that store.
Speaker B:I worked there part time for I did every other Saturday for I don't know, two or three years maybe.
Speaker B:And then I started to manage get some and that's when I met Jonathan Schultz and Silent Circle started.
Speaker B:But that was kind of the experience that allowed me get into the gun store because at the time when the whole rest of the world was waking up to oh, these fun guns, I was like gotcha.
Speaker B:Like this is how all this works.
Speaker B:And so pretty magical time for me.
Speaker B:But that's how I got here.
Speaker A:Now being a silencer company, you are held to very strict procedural stuff from the atf.
Speaker B:Yes sir.
Speaker A:Can you walk through what that means to you guys when it comes to making a new silence or making a new product?
Speaker A:Trying to figure out the whole business.
Speaker B:You have a manufacturing FFL with an SOT.
Speaker B: So what you'd slang is: Speaker B:We have a compliance guy and when you manufacture a silencer you fill out a Form 2 non tax paid add to your logbook and then you three that out to distribution or forward out to an individual.
Speaker B:The other way that it's done, general speak, is you form three and that's another no tax paid.
Speaker B:And that can be done as many times.
Speaker B:So you can have something variants manufactured and form three it or you can form three to wholesale or what have you.
Speaker B:So we try to follow.
Speaker B:Not to say I believe that some of the rules, laws don't make a lot of sense to me.
Speaker B:But we still obviously follow them to the letter.
Speaker B:No one wants to go to prison here.
Speaker B:I mean, not again.
Speaker A:So as a manufacturer of silencer suppressors, if they were to be pulled off of the NFA registry with the.
Speaker B:To title one.
Speaker A:Yeah, to just title one to what is in Congress now is the Shush Act.
Speaker A:What would that mean for you guys as a business?
Speaker B:Well, it would obviously mean our market would open up.
Speaker B:The biggest barrier to entry for any silencer company is the wait time.
Speaker B:And I don't think that going through the paperwork, progress or process, excuse me, is as bad, nor is paying the $200 as just the outright agonizing weight of see you next year.
Speaker B:That's a hard thing to do.
Speaker B:In today's email, fast food, drive up window kind of Amazon society that we currently find ourselves in.
Speaker C:One of the things that's interesting to me is as new gun owners join the community, it seems like they are fast tracking to higher quality, better quality.
Speaker C:They want the suppressors, they want to be ready from the beginning.
Speaker C:Where there's not as much of a.
Speaker C:Once you get into the second amendment community, there's not as much of a onboarding process to when you just, you want those products.
Speaker B:Agreed.
Speaker B:And I think that you're spot on.
Speaker B:And I believe the reason for that is there's more information to be had.
Speaker B:You know, if you took away the Internet, you would have to proceed a little bit more cautiously with the firearms that you chose and get them and get to know them and use them and then move along a little bit where I can ask thousands of people now that.
Speaker B:And you didn't have that ability before.
Speaker B:I think that's why they want to skip the learning curve.
Speaker B:I don't blame them.
Speaker B:I like to do that too.
Speaker B:I also run a little YouTube myself, you know, as a consumer.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker C:And I think that a lot of it is, you know, you may go to the range, it's loud and so the first thing you might go is hey, you know, I want to, I want to protect my hearing or I want to make this a little more enjoyable or have a little land and I want to shoot, but I don't want my neighbors calling the cops on me.
Speaker C:And I think that more people are just excited to get a suppressor and I think it's becoming way, way more popular.
Speaker B:Agree.
Speaker B:And I think you've got a few negatives.
Speaker B:Like with anything you've got the Added length, you've got the added weight, the complexity.
Speaker B:It's hot, it's expensive.
Speaker B:The wait time, the whole paperwork thing, like all negative.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:But that is vastly outweighed by the positive benefits of it.
Speaker B:You know, to your point, the overall shooting experience, the damage to your hearing and just the annoyance of the noise and not have to do headphones and earplugs.
Speaker B:And why bug other people?
Speaker B:You know how you would be super thankful if your neighbor shot a lot and then they got some cans and you didn't know they shot a lot?
Speaker B:Like, how wonderful would that be?
Speaker A:Amazing.
Speaker B:I think it just goes to be more polite and a better neighbor to your fellow men.
Speaker B:And they're cool.
Speaker B:Yeah, let's not forget that.
Speaker C:No.
Speaker C:And I think that that's why we're seeing a peak of interest in the hunting community as well.
Speaker C:Because yes, a hunter may traditionally only take one or two shots, maybe some more if they're, you know, sighting in or something.
Speaker C:But, you know, it.
Speaker C:It's not about necessarily the.
Speaker C:The volume that you're shooting as much as it is the enjoyment of that shooting.
Speaker C:And so it's always exciting when we see more states allow suppressors to be used when hunting.
Speaker C:I would love for it to be.
Speaker C:All 50 states allow it, but, you know, it.
Speaker C:That's again, something that we can make progress on.
Speaker C:That's for suppressor freedom, even outside of something like the nfa.
Speaker B:It's getting there though, in the.
Speaker B:I think the amount of states like I would have to look, but I think it's roughly doubled in the last 20 years or so that you could legally hunt with.
Speaker B:I know it's always been that way in Utah.
Speaker B:We've never had a law against it, but I've hunted in Wyoming and specifically not taking cans because it wasn't legal.
Speaker B:And now it's.
Speaker B:You're totally good.
Speaker A:So awesome you brought up Utah.
Speaker A:And I've always wondered this.
Speaker A:Why does Utah seem to be the Mecca for suppressor companies?
Speaker A:There seems to be so many in there.
Speaker A:Is it because of the laws, is just because of the location?
Speaker B:I think it's happenstance.
Speaker B:I don't know that there's any real reason why.
Speaker B:And you're right, it is a kind of a focal point for silencer manufacturing in this country.
Speaker B:Certainly I don't know why so many people do it there.
Speaker B:I just.
Speaker B:I think it just worked out that way.
Speaker C:You know, I do wonder from your perspective, obviously Senator Mike Lee is one of the ones behind getting suppressors out of the nfa.
Speaker C:He's your senator in Utah.
Speaker C:How does that feel from the company's perspective when you have an elected official that's actually working to deregulate your industry and restore a piece of the second.
Speaker B:Amendment, I'd say grateful.
Speaker B:If I had to put it in one word, like, that's magical that people would actually do something that you wanted done.
Speaker B:In government as it sits, most of the time, it's either not affecting you or it's affecting you in some negative manner.
Speaker B:Every new rule is a new restriction.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:That you didn't have before.
Speaker C:Exactly.
Speaker C:I mean, like, thanks, Mikely.
Speaker C:Yeah, I mean, it's exciting for us because elected officials are elected officials.
Speaker C:They're supposed to be representatives.
Speaker C:It's literally in their name.
Speaker C:And yet so oftentimes we find them dictating to us and they're considered the self prescribed leaders when actually they're the ones that should be displaying our interests.
Speaker C:So it's always exciting from my perspective to see when a senator goes, hey, we have all of these suppressor companies in my state and I'm gonna stand up for them.
Speaker C:And I wish more senators and representatives would take the hint.
Speaker B:Agree.
Speaker B:I think I speak with every gun owner and how great would that be?
Speaker B:Let's just be thankful we have a little bit of that going on right now and not, you know, the other way around.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker A:Being the owner of a suppressor company, what you guys got to have a customer service team who's getting bombarded with questions on things and misnomers on being, you know, owning an NFA item like that.
Speaker A:What are some of the top ones?
Speaker B:That's not as bad as you'd think.
Speaker A:Really?
Speaker B:Yeah, I think that subsided greatly in customer service for us is more product central than general speak rules, as it were.
Speaker B:So we don't get a whole ton of questions about gun trusts and things like that.
Speaker B:We do a little bit, but mostly by the time they get to us, it's pretty product oriented.
Speaker A:So we've seen suppressor technology kind of advance a lot over the last decade or so.
Speaker A:What do you think is the next big advancement, if any, to that technology?
Speaker B:Oh, that's a great question.
Speaker B:I could tell you that, but I can't really tell you that.
Speaker B:No, I'm just kidding.
Speaker B:I think the popularity and competition and amount of silencer companies that especially come and go and you see that a lot.
Speaker B:If you walked around the floor, you'll see silencer companies you'd never seen before and you'll never see again.
Speaker B:It's a tough little market segment.
Speaker B:If you choose to participate in that.
Speaker B:And I think just like with anything, the internal combustion engine or whatever modern thing that you choose to pick when there's a lot of competition in that segment, you're going to get a lot of development in that segment.
Speaker B:And I think it's fueled by the passion that the consumer has.
Speaker B:The consumer drives all that.
Speaker B:When there's more demand, more companies will spring up and everyone's trying to do something better than the last guy.
Speaker B:I mean that's what we do as well.
Speaker A:You mentioned demand.
Speaker A:What has that.
Speaker A:I mean you guys come out with almost a new can almost every year or try to.
Speaker A:What has that demand driven to.
Speaker A:It's been like over the last couple decades or last decade or so where people are starting to get into it and learning that it's not as big as of a hurdles as it used to be in their.
Speaker A:In their mind.
Speaker B:Well, like anything you.
Speaker B:And it's really people like yourselves that help on that front of educating and there's several different places where you can get that info.
Speaker B:And it's really not as hard as it would be made out to be.
Speaker B:Look, it's a pain.
Speaker B:You are going to fill this form out, send it in and pay the 200 bucks, go through the wait.
Speaker B:And once that happens, you're like, oh, well, I liked that.
Speaker B:I'd like to do that again maybe a few more times.
Speaker B:So I think that's kind of where people get with that.
Speaker C:One of the things that anytime the government is proposing a new regulation or the ATF is going through a comment period, especially when it is completely redefining your rights away, is they want to make those hurdles incredibly difficult.
Speaker C:They're expecting that we won't comment.
Speaker C:They're expecting that enough people won't care.
Speaker C:And that can be our biggest victory is just our strength and numbers.
Speaker C:It wasn't very long ago that during the Obama administration they wanted to ban Green Tip ammo.
Speaker C:And it was because of an overwhelming response in the ATF comment period that that didn't happen.
Speaker C:In the original.
Speaker C:I think it was the frame and receiver rule.
Speaker C:They were the.
Speaker C:There was a section in there about serializing everything and there was some questions on whether every single layer of a suppressor would have to be serialized and all of those things.
Speaker C:Thankfully, because of the overwhelming amounts of comments and by the way, shout out to GOA members and everyone in that fight because we keep raising the bar on how many comments we're sending.
Speaker C:And this last one on the universal background check rule was the highest we had ever generated through our comment system.
Speaker C:But they are banking on gun owners inaction.
Speaker C:And what they don't, or what we are doing our best to educate on is the fact that inaction on our part will always bring the greatest form of destruction to the second amendment.
Speaker B:Well said.
Speaker B:Inactivity is the enemy here, right?
Speaker B:I mean you have a voice and if you choose to use it, it will help.
Speaker B:It can't hurt.
Speaker C:Yeah, it's the, the old saying, idle hands is the, the devil's playground.
Speaker C:If, if gun owners stay out of the fight, we are letting our biggest adversary win.
Speaker B:Wouldn't agree more.
Speaker A:We just saw that in Illinois.
Speaker A:They wanted everybody to register their, their what they deem assault weapons, which is a terrible term altogether, but they wanted, they got what, 4% of all total guns to be registered.
Speaker A:And it's just showing that people have voice that they're not going to comply to unconstitutional laws.
Speaker C:And even, you know, obviously we're not going to advocate that anyone breaks the law.
Speaker C:No one wants to go to prison.
Speaker C:Like all of those things are true.
Speaker C:But I think what people kind of miss sometimes is those of us that have the capacity and the availability to be active and stay active and listen to things like our podcast or you know, stay informed, to be a GOA member and open emails and respond to them.
Speaker C:How many people were just living their regular lives having no idea that this legislation was even passing?
Speaker B:Say 99% if I had to give a number.
Speaker C:Yeah, because there's so much in everyday life that's happening and let's face it, right now most Americans are trying to put food on the table in an economy that's with out of control inflation.
Speaker C:And it's important that yes, stay active in the fight.
Speaker C:If you can be activated, be activated and spread that message.
Speaker C:But it is so frustrating to think about the people that just don't have the capacity to do that or they don't realize how easy it is to get active, that miss that opportunity and have no idea that their state government or their federal government is trying to turn them into a felon for owning something that is completely legal.
Speaker B:And let's not forget trying to educate your fellow man on an individual basis.
Speaker B:I've seen that help a lot and I've seen a lot of people decide that they don't want to be anti gun anymore.
Speaker A:Well, I think a lot of people are waking up to the disinformation that they're seeing.
Speaker A:I mean just for your product, the amount of people who think everything is Hollywood quiet is because that's what they know and that that's the disinformation just to get out there and teach people that, hey, you know, if you use a full load, you're not going to have the same sound dampening as using subsonic ammo.
Speaker A:And so you know all the other nuances that go into owning a suppressor and making it do what you want it to do.
Speaker B:Fighting mistruth is the struggle of mankind.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:We can never quit doing that.
Speaker B:And you're right, it's not anywhere close to Hollywood.
Speaker B:Quiet.
Speaker B:That's a made up sound effect.
Speaker C:How frustrating is it for you to be in a environment where so much of it is based on that perceived high Hollywood understanding when the Hollywood culture by and large is, I would say, radically anti gun?
Speaker B:Yes, they are.
Speaker B:That's an understatement.
Speaker B:I also get a little befuddled on the same kind of plane.
Speaker B:The whole video game thing, I kind of missed the boat on that.
Speaker B:It was Asteroids and Pac man when I grew up.
Speaker B:I've never done Rainbow 15 or whatever, a box or any of that sort of thing, but you would be shocked at the amount of people that are like, oh, no, I have one of those on this game.
Speaker B:I use that on this game.
Speaker B:It's odd.
Speaker B:I don't know why people put so much emphasis on what the stars think or care.
Speaker A:You brought up video games and that's an interesting topic.
Speaker A:We've talked about it in the past, but never to a company like yours.
Speaker A:Do you think that's bringing in a new generation of gun owner who wants the stuff they have in that game or is it more of just hunting 100%?
Speaker B:I know it is.
Speaker B:I've seen it over and over.
Speaker B:People do get interested in firearms or what you deem those real steel.
Speaker B:Maybe people get interested in the actual firearms through fantasy games, video games, roleplay, whatever.
Speaker B:Sure.
Speaker A:Is that, do we.
Speaker A:Hold on.
Speaker B:Same thing with the movie though, right?
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:I mean, what's the difference?
Speaker B:You see it, you haven't actually touched one and you're like, oh, I kind of want that.
Speaker B:Isn't that the same way that mankind works for marketing, advertising?
Speaker B:Like, look, I showed you a picture and told you about it and then you decide if you want it or not.
Speaker B:I mean, we get that put at us thousands of times a day.
Speaker C:So obviously with our podcast, we talk about culture, we talk about things that are happening in Congress and in the courts with video games and movies and all of these things that play into the culture war.
Speaker C:What do you see as the biggest victory that gun owners can have over the next five, ten years.
Speaker B:Oh, that's a good question.
Speaker B:I think as I think about that a little bit, I would tell you, keeping it the way that it is, or let me put it like this, and you already have a warning for firearms and a warning for smoking and nudity and, you know, on and on.
Speaker B:I think if they took all firearms out of all forms of media, I think that would be pretty crushing.
Speaker B:No one would know.
Speaker B:So I'm not, I'm not saying that anyone's going to add any more firearm content, but man, I would hate to lose what we have now.
Speaker B:How would a new person gain interest in it then if they didn't know anything about it?
Speaker B:That's where they see it.
Speaker A:That's well said.
Speaker A:So a few months back, I'm going to pivot a little bit on this because a few months back there was an event where a bunch of suppressors were put up against each other to get the information and the data to compare.
Speaker A:And I can't remember the name of summit off the top of my head.
Speaker B:Thunder Beast.
Speaker A:Thunder Beast.
Speaker A:Was that.
Speaker B:Yeah, great event.
Speaker B:I was there.
Speaker A:So what did that, an event like that do for, for the suppressor industry?
Speaker B:And I apologize and I don't mean to be long winded and I'm, I'm sorry if it seems that way because I am long winded.
Speaker B:Mrs. Pappas tells me that all the time, but she's a little more blunt with me.
Speaker B:But at any rate, you've got.
Speaker B:It's like a statistic and I can present information to you in a vast amount of ways to make you favor or not, or put importance on different things or not.
Speaker B:So the sound, energy and perception on the human body, you hear this noise, you feel this pressure and then your ear and brain and it translates this, right?
Speaker B:So that you hear a noise, it's like vision or anything, Right.
Speaker B:Hot sauce to me, maybe super hot to you and not that hot to me.
Speaker B:And you know, you could make several comparisons like that.
Speaker B:The Thunder Beast way of gathering data is very simple and it's in raw file.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:So you could a weighted or you could put it through any kind of program you want or from that point present the data.
Speaker B:I don't want to use the term, it's not say, manipulating, but just the way that it's presented.
Speaker B:The Thunderbeast get data gather and dump is to try to help everyone see it in any way that they want to see it.
Speaker B:If that.
Speaker B:Does that make sense?
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:So I think that's a great thing.
Speaker B:And there's a lot of people that present the dad in different ways, and I mean from company to company.
Speaker B:And we present it in different ways than other people do.
Speaker B:For example, you can measure from the muzzle of the firearm over the mic from a specific point.
Speaker B:Now we put a silencer on and then pull it back and use the distal end, the muzzle of the silencer, to that point.
Speaker B:Some people leave the muzzle of the firearm in the same place and then put a can on that, which moves it out over the microphone, and it will give you better numbers.
Speaker B:There's nothing wrong with either way.
Speaker B:It's just two different ways of doing the same thing.
Speaker B:So it's like that.
Speaker B:I like as many avenues of data so that you can consume it in the way that you want.
Speaker B:Pick your person that presents it in the way that you like, and then try to get an understanding of how everything sounds compared to everything else for you.
Speaker A:No, that's great.
Speaker A:And I loved seeing that all the companies got together to get that data and show it and present it.
Speaker B:Not everyone came, but everyone's invited.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:So it's not exclusionary.
Speaker B:I think that's important too.
Speaker C:So staying kind of on the topic of events, I know that as suppressors gain more popularity now, we're starting to see events like CanCon not only have one, but two events.
Speaker C:You have an east and a West.
Speaker C:I know from we exhibit there, there's a lot of new people that kind of come to that event, buy a ticket so that they can test everything out and just see it in person.
Speaker C:Because many people haven't had the opportunity to see that.
Speaker C:How important is it that not only at dedicated range days, but just range days in general, that people use suppressors and kind of make it more a part of the firearm culture?
Speaker B:Well, that's the most important kind of demo that we do that really just lets you tell for yourself.
Speaker B:And I think that, look, I could tell you how to do something or about something.
Speaker B:Let's just say, for example, flight simulator.
Speaker B:You could become very good at a flight simulator.
Speaker B:Would you dare fly with no copilot, no trainer?
Speaker B:I don't think you would.
Speaker B:That is just the no BS way to waze through everything and just see what it is that you like.
Speaker B:What kind of people do you want to do business with?
Speaker B:How does this product fit your needs?
Speaker B:How do you think it sounds?
Speaker B:Back to the hot sauce.
Speaker B:I mean, there's a scale for it.
Speaker B:It's a Scoville scale of how hot something is.
Speaker B:And everything has A number you and I don't see the chart the same way.
Speaker B:So I don't think you can underestimate or under emphasize, I should say, the importance of events like that.
Speaker B:And although obviously Cancon is the largest with the most participation, but you have events all over the country going on constantly.
Speaker B:Like all silencer companies, us included, have in store events and little shoots and sometimes it's just us and a few other companies and sometimes we're not there and it's just a few companies.
Speaker B:You know, it just.
Speaker B:That should be pretty easy to seek out in your area.
Speaker B:If you're in the US somewhere listening to this and would like to go to one of those events.
Speaker B:I get it, you might not want to go to Georgia or Phoenix, Arizona and maybe you can't.
Speaker B:But if you looked around and kind of asked around, you'd find, you'd find that and then you could experience it for yourself.
Speaker A:So our industry is big, but small, as a lot of people like to put.
Speaker A:Sounds like all the suppressor companies.
Speaker A:Do you guys really get along and share data and pass.
Speaker A:It sounds like you guys are very tight knit group that like to kind of travel and together and do events together.
Speaker B:I think by nature that we do.
Speaker B:But like in any crowd you've got all different personality types and I mean you're not gonna get along with all of them.
Speaker B:Why would you.
Speaker B:Like when you were in the third grade, did you make friends with all the other 29 kids in your class?
Speaker B:No.
Speaker B:You made friends with three of them and tolerated 10 and didn't care for the other 20 or something of that nature.
Speaker B:It's the same way with any kind of competing.
Speaker B:I'm sure that some of the bicycle manufacturers don't get along with some of the other bicycle manufacturers, but they all go to these little pedal races, Tour de France and whatnot, you know.
Speaker A:Well, the other thing that you touched on is you touched on Flight Simulator and I found that very interesting and funny because it's like the same idea with video games and guns.
Speaker A:You, you can go do it on a computer screen.
Speaker A:I can fly on Flight Simulator, but nine times out of ten I'm going to wreck it because there's no consequences.
Speaker A:But to go out to and learn how to shoot a firearm and learn all the, the nuances.
Speaker A:I think that's, that's a great comparison.
Speaker B:Well, I say that because you may be very interested in getting a private or commercial pilot's license.
Speaker B:Fixed wing, rotary wing, recip turbine, whatever it may be that interests you.
Speaker B:You pick this and don't tell me you're not going to fly simulated a little bit, because I know you are.
Speaker B:And that's going to be part of.
Speaker B:In some cases, if your aspiration was to hope they restarted the whole space shuttle program and you wanted to be a pilot on that, you're going to get in a space shuttle simulator.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:So I think it's a starting place and I think everything works like that.
Speaker B:You're going to start movies, communication, maybe some video games.
Speaker B:Like you find out about them and you get interest and that's the experience that you have.
Speaker B:And you want to try the real thing.
Speaker B:And if you want to do that with us on a shooting line, we won't let you crash.
Speaker B:That's what we try to do.
Speaker B:Hold it like this.
Speaker B:Don't shoot over there, do this.
Speaker A:And that says a lot about our community and about how welcoming we are to go, hey, if you want to try this, go to.
Speaker A:And I encourage everybody to go to a range, go to one of these events, come hang out with us.
Speaker A:I mean, I've seen you were one of the few that I see constantly at events.
Speaker A:I saw you at Red October.
Speaker A:I've seen you at other events where you're there.
Speaker A:You can actually learn from the man himself on how to shoot these things.
Speaker B:I try to put in the work.
Speaker B:I think it's important to look it's a real thing.
Speaker B:Like, I want to give people that experience.
Speaker B:It's not just something I say because you invited me up to the posh hotel room for this fun little podcast.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:And that's.
Speaker A:Kaylee says it a lot.
Speaker A:It's about.
Speaker A:It's the on ramp to getting into the second amendment and going to events like Cancon and Red October and all these other events to get there and see things that you only have seen in film and games and stuff and get to experience that we are a very welcoming community.
Speaker A:We would like you to join and come and hang out with us and have some fun and eventually you make friends and you learn.
Speaker B:Yeah, dip your toe in if that's what you want to do.
Speaker B:And I just, I think it would be very hard to find some kind of thing that wasn't going on near you.
Speaker B:They just, they go on so often and so much.
Speaker B:I, I mean, there's so many great shoots.
Speaker B:Not the size of Cancon, but there's a lot of great shoots out there to be had.
Speaker A:Well, and that's a.
Speaker A:You made a good point.
Speaker A:You know, you may not know if it's around you or look up.
Speaker A:I encourage other people to go, try to put on an event or, or get a bunch of friends together and do it.
Speaker A:Or see, you know, you may not have a dead air there, but you're going to have, you know, it's friends getting together and doing a shoot.
Speaker B:Oh, man, that's been the most that I've done.
Speaker B:Taking your bros out, letting them see it.
Speaker B:Good times.
Speaker A:Oh, yeah, great times.
Speaker C:I think that's where community is built.
Speaker C:I think that's people who automatically trust you to at least, you know, have some sort of level of knowledge.
Speaker C:It's one of those things where, you know, at least in our area, it's like one person got a thermal and then everyone gets a thermal.
Speaker C:Someone got a suppressor, then everyone gets a suppressor because you go and you shoot and you learn all of these things and then you want to participate and you also want to have better gear than your friends.
Speaker C:And so it just becomes.
Speaker C:It feeds constantly into that.
Speaker C:And that's where our community is built.
Speaker C:I think that's what makes us unique and different, but also it makes us stronger every time that we participate.
Speaker B:Totally agree.
Speaker C:So where can everyone find you?
Speaker C:Social media.
Speaker C:All of the things.
Speaker B:Deadairarmament.com and we have, I believe.
Speaker B:Don't quote me on this, I'm not super social media guy, but if you type in dead air on Instagram or Facebook and it might be, and I should know this and don't hate me, it might be like dead air silencers.
Speaker B:Either try silencers or armament.
Speaker B:We're not hiding it.
Speaker B:It should be pretty easy to find us.
Speaker A:Awesome, Mike, thanks again for taking the time to join us.
Speaker A:We really appreciate it.
Speaker A:This was a great conversation.
Speaker A:I had a blast.
Speaker A:He is a funny, funny guy.
Speaker A:So, guys, thanks for watching and have a great rest of your day.
Speaker B:Thank you.
