What make's McFleshman's english porter special? Continuing our Taplist series, Gary grills Bobby and Allison about the origins and recipe for White Horse.

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--

TIMELINE

00:00 Holday Break Announcement

00:44 Welcome!

02:54 The Tadcaster Trip

05:53 The Art of Beer Labels

09:07 Porter vs Stout

11:26 A Complex Recipe

14:02 The History of Porters

14:54 Open Fermentation and Yeast

15:46 Water Chemistry

16:42 ABVs

18:10 Second Chance Porter

20:51 White Horse Experiments

25:07 The Art of Cask Ales

26:07 Smoked Beers

27:28 We Got a Real Horse??

28:20 Support us on Patreon!

--

CREDITS

Hosts:

Bobby Fleshman - https://www.mcfleshmans.com/

Allison Fleshman -https://www.instagram.com/mcfleshmans/

Joel Hermansen

Gary Ardnt - https://everything-everywhere.com/everything-everywhere-daily-podcast/

Music by Sarah Lynn Huss - https://www.facebook.com/kevin.huss.52/

Recorded & Produced by David Kalsow - https://davidkalsow.com/

Brought to you by McFleshman's Brewing Co

Merry Christmas.

Happy New Year everyone.

A quick announcement,

we're gonna take a little holiday break the next two weeks, so next week we're gonna pull something out from behind the Patreon curtain for you, and then the following Monday, January 5th, we are doing a Patreon exclusive live stream.

So if you support us at any tier, you can watch our live stream recapping 2025, doing an off the shelf beer blind taste test, and looking forward to 2026.

we will come back into the main feed on January 12th with the Godfather of Craft Brewing.

I'll let you take a guess who that is.

Enjoy this episode of the Taplist series Exploring a White Horse English porter.

Hello everyone, and welcome to another episode of Respecting the Beer.

My name is Gary Arndt and with me on this episode, our Brewing magazine's 2026 Power couple of the year.

Bobby, that is the official name.

We've establish

that your birth name.

Hey, at least we're not talking about my middle name.

That's true.

Allison will

do that.

How many do you have?

It's just one, but there're two names together.

I think we've talked about this before.

Lyndale is his middle name.

Mm-hmm.

There's a, there's a street in town.

There's, yeah.

Like that.

So that's okay.

Bobby Dale?

Yep.

Get back in

here.

Allison, middle name unknown.

Michelle.

Oh, technically Michelle McCoy.

Dr. Michelle?

Yeah, McCoy.

Hold it.

Michelle is your first name?

No, so Allison, Michelle McCoy, Fleshman.

Oh.

And because I can't have two last names 'cause Oklahoma didn't understand that I wanted, I didn't wanna hyphenate it.

They're like, well you can't have two last names.

They just

allowed you to vote like five years before.

Oh, you just moved away.

So

I was,

do what rich people always did historically.

Which was George Walker Bush Walker is the, the, the family name from his mother's side.

Yeah.

And that's what they would always do, right?

Is just use it as a middle name, but then go by that.

Yeah, that's

true.

So it's, so I wanted to keep the McCoy, um, but Oklahoma wouldn't let me put it as like two last names that wasn't hyphenated.

So I was like, cool.

So I'm just gonna add it to my middle name.

So I have two middle names now.

Michelle McCoy.

Hey.

Go

to, why do I think there's a Michelle McCoy who's like a celebrity?

Um, because I am one and that's cool.

I don't know.

You ever hear the story behind Harry s Truman?

Sure, there's a few.

There have

been many.

You know what his middle name is?

Hmm.

S Hmm.

He didn't have a middle name, so he is like, well, it would sound a lot better if I had something.

So he just picked the initial s It's, it's s, that's all it is.

Harry s Truman.

Nice.

Nice.

Yes.

Stands for S.

That's lovely.

So speaking of lovely, what beer are we talking about today?

We are going to jump on the White horse.

The white horse.

Yeah.

This is the night for that.

So.

This is, uh, I'd say one of your better known cask beers, uh, that you have.

So why don't, why don't you describe, how would you describe Whitehorse?

Well, you wanna tell just a two minute recap of the trip to Tadcaster?

Yes.

We went to Tadcaster England.

We, um, Bobby was there for a. Uh oh.

The mop meeting, the magneto mop spheres of the outer planets meeting in London.

And we rent, yes,

there's a gold plated or brass plated op mop op.

Yeah.

That we share.

That they pass around.

Yeah.

Um, anyway, so we drive up to Leeds, we grab a car and we move over to, uh, Tadcaster, teeny tiny town.

We, salmon Smith Brewing Company is.

We walk in and they're like, what are you doing here?

And we're like, we're here for the tour.

And they're like, we don't do that.

Go to the pub.

And so, so we just went and hung out at the pub the whole time.

Um, and it was the Whitehorse and Angel.

Pub and the public in there knew we were not from around there.

And he basically schooled us on what casks really are and anything we ordered, he just shook his head no.

And he was like, you'll have this instead in the most glorious English accent.

Um, and we had the Tady porter was there.

Um, which

was really one of my foundational beers.

Oh my.

It was like an

elixir.

It was amazing.

Pretty much

anything that, that Sam Smith made then, or now,

but the cask, it was a warm, English cozy pub.

Um, the casks were just, I think there was five of them, or six.

I can't remember.

Um, but each one of 'em was just as glorious and smooth and creamy as possible.

Yeah.

This is the, the location that had the Shire horses, you know, that that was, that's how they delivered beer.

And they were like, right.

The, the Shire horses were just right where we were sitting.

Yeah.

Um, not in the pub, but in the little courtyard area.

They were incognito, they were at a booth.

Um, and so in this, um, we'll just jump to the label 'cause we're talking about it.

Um.

So we named the, the beer, the White Horse.

And there she has a little sister.

Um, the White Horse Porter has a lighter version, which is the British mild or the English mild.

Um, and that one's named, uh, mild Angel after the pub, which was the white horse in Angel.

Um, and then the logo on the beer is a picture of a white horse.

Go figure.

Um, but that is the, um, painting that's hanging in the White Horse.

And Alex Schultz contacted the, uh, pub there and said, Hey, we're making a beer kind of in the honor of the White Horse and Angel, would you mind if we had the picture of that and put it on our logo?

And they said, sure.

And so that's what the White Horse is.

That's actually the painting that's in the pub there.

It's a

really great label.

It's beautiful.

I mean, it's, it's the painting.

But yeah,

strangely enough.

A lot of your best labels are not necessarily your bestselling beers.

Yeah.

I think your worst label is 5 47.

Oh, that's funny.

Oh, that's interesting.

I think that was meant I'm here defending the artist or trying to tell.

It's meant to be kind of inspired by one of the, when you take a, you press these, these art.

Works on paper.

What are they, what's it called?

You know what I'm talking about?

Where you think wood blocks and you

woodblock prints

maybe?

Sorry.

You mean

like flower pressings?

Yeah.

Can you, what would you des would, how do you describe 5 47 label

as a Fillmore poster?

Is it,

yeah.

Kind of

like, it could be more psychedelic if you wanted to go that route.

Yeah, that's what I think.

But I think your best, um, label for a can is Yorkshire Round.

Oh, that's fun.

I,

I think that's the best one by far.

That is your colleague, right?

That did the artwork on it?

No, that's, uh, no, Tony Conrad did the, uh, Doba.

Doba.

Okay.

Uh, no.

Christian, um, oh God.

Christian, I'm so sorry.

I forgot your last name.

Um, he does the, um, uh, FSM.

Yeah.

Uh, um, fuck.

Social media, right?

That one.

Yeah.

Well, I'm trying to think of what it's called.

Well, anyway, that there's a magazine amount.

That label was very, very abstract.

That's,

that's really cool that you noticed that.

Um,

what 5 47 reminds me of, if you've never seen the movie Fantasia 2000.

Oh my God, that's funny.

Which you should.

With Jade, uh, there's different segments and there's one where I think it's the, I think it's Stravinsky's.

The Rite of Spring?

No, it's the

fireworks.

It's the, it's the finale to, um, but anyways, there's a scene from that and there's like a wooden mph and that's what that

is so

funny.

It reminds me of, well,

that, that artist, um, Chad Brady.

Uh, did so many murals and he did our, uh, David Bowie mural.

He, there's actually Chad Brady Day in Appleton 'cause he is done so many murals.

Um, and, uh, yeah, that's the, he's the one that did our 5 4 7 label.

But anyway, white Horse back to that.

Um, this is the

character from I

now looking at a picture of a, oh, she looks like the She Hulk.

That's cool.

Firebird Suite by Stravinsky.

2000. But

this is, this is the, the character in the animated thing.

Cool.

Which reminds me of the 5 47 logo.

I like that.

That's nice.

Anyways, there we go.

But you don't like the 5, 4, 7 logo.

No, but I'm saying it reminds me of this not,

ah, I see San

Francisco.

That's fair.

Yeah.

I don't give philmore strongly from it either.

But What do you think of the White Horse since we're speaking about White Horse?

Oh, I mean, it's a white horse.

Well, it's hard to go from now.

I'm in the head space of 5

47.

Uh, I think the white horse label's a good one too.

Yeah, it's very classic.

It's,

I also appreciate that it's the, the way that they would name pubs in England.

It's the white horse.

It, there's a pic, there's a big sign, and it's the white horse.

It's a, it's usually

an adjective and an animal.

Yeah.

The queen's arms, well, black crow the,

yeah,

whatever.

I thought of another one the other day.

Anyway, so here we go.

Um.

Porters.

I was, as you guys were talking, I was thinking, how do we frame what a porter English porter really is?

What's the difference?

Because we just did the episode on public house pint.

Our stout, what's the difference between a stout and a porter?

Yeah, so that's, I was going there.

So I, I, I think that malt technology of the time really created porters and brewing technology at the time, because in England you didn't have a, you didn't have microbiology 400 years ago.

You didn't have.

A sense about, you know, what was contaminated because they, every beer goes sour after a given amount of time in, in England, 300 years ago, let's say.

'cause no one has a sense about sanitation like we do today.

So they drink it fast or.

They can blend it new stuff with old stuff, and if it's a little tart, it, it blends away.

And that's sort of where Porters, uh, became their own.

And the color and the flavor of a porter would've been, uh, darker because the technology of kiln, the malts would have imbued these, these darker colors and flavors.

Smoke.

Smoke was every beer back then because everything's direct kiln by wood fire.

Um.

So that's kind of like the beginning of Porter's.

And there was, there was uh, push through modernization to make malts lighter in color, less intense, more drinkable.

And that's where you get your pale malts and you get pale ls coming from England, your bitters and your IPAs.

And then on the other extreme, somebody in Ireland created this machine called.

Black patent and black patent, uh, or sorry, the black, it was a roaster that created the black patent malt from, and that's where your Irish Stout came from.

So I think in a lot of ways that your porter kind of stands in the middle of those two directions and, and then English porter, it.

It has this nice little coffee ness to it that comes from the roasting process.

It gives those malts the same flavors like it does with actual coffee.

Uh, my favorite malt probably of all time is Thomas Faucet Pale Chocolate Malt.

I'll go back and grab a handful now and bring it out here maybe in a minute.

And you guys will taste something that's not accurate.

It's just delicious.

It's just, uh, if, if a sort of a baker's chocolate and a and a malt had a baby, this is what would come out.

It's so delicious.

Um.

It's in this beer.

It's one of the signature malts in this beer.

And, and then we also put a little sweetness in there from a English, what are called a crystal malt, which is different than like a caramel malt in the United States.

And if I haven't described this before, caramel malts are a technology by which you can actually hydrate the kernel, the barley kernel, um, while it's going through its germination process.

And, and you can heat it up such that it encases the water.

And you're, and think of it as a teeny tiny little mash tone.

And inside that kernel, it's converting those sugars, those starches into sugars, and then you ramp up the temperature quickly before it cools down.

You can actually crystallize those sugars into tiny little candies and you'll break your teeth if you try to chew these things, but you grind them up and you throw 'em into the mash and it dissolves back into the solution and it gives you this sweetness and this flavor you can't get in any other way.

And we've gone on that.

Even the Czechs and the Germans have have simulated in the United and.

Here in the United States we've done the same, but the English have really done a great job with these.

So all that's kind of thrown in.

I look at the recipe of this thing and I'm like, God, did a home brewer come up with that?

Yes,

and he did.

And it's, it's stupid.

There's so many malts in this particular recipe and I don't know which one I should mess with, if any.

So I don't really touch it.

It's got an annoying amount of hops and.

Or sorry, malts.

And, and to stage it up is, is just nerve wracking.

'cause you can, you can mess it up if you're not paying attention.

Uh, I put two different flavors of chocolate malt in here.

Um, two different caramel malts.

I put some wheat malt in here.

What's that?

I'm just shaking my head no, because now I'm got Gary sitting next to me and I'm thinking about running a business and I'm like, wait a minute, is this smart for us to do all this fancy stuff?

I know.

And then, and then, you know, I'm blaring at you right now.

And, and then, and then one of the most It is if you let people know you are doing it.

Hey, we're doing all this craziness for White Horse.

We're crazy stuff.

And then Brown Malt.

Brown Malt is another signature read, which is why we are doing these episodes.

Yes, that's so

fair.

Brown Malt is a signature malt in this too.

Uh, it, it, it linger, it, it borders on, I don't wanna say accurate, but it, but it definitely, it tends in that direction and you're, you're.

Trying to tease out some chocolate notes, some, some baker's chocolate, some coffee.

None of this is supposed to be sweet, although it definitely has a pleasant sweetness to it that blends right into those other flavors.

And then the base malt is a Golden Promise by Thomas Faucet, which is a very sweet, uh, it's Scottish, uh, malt malt company.

Fun fact.

Do you know

where Porter got its name?

Ooh.

Where?

I do know, but I wanna hear your answer.

'cause May, it was popular with Porters.

The people that carried luggage.

Yeah, that's fair.

And it, was it popular?

Did they serve it on the, did did they also serve as bartend?

Bartend was on the train?

No, it was a, um, it was the waste product for the train.

It was, well, that's what I was saying earlier.

So you have the

sourness of these older beers.

You blend with new ones.

Um, you create, they call three, there were three threads and you could blend like new, medium and old together to get the right darkness and sweetness.

This came out before trains, so couldn't have been porters for trains.

It had to have been Oh, yeah, yeah.

Okay.

Either people doing it for coaches or Yeah, for ships or something like that.

That's cool.

Um, but,

and that's where it came from.

So it's a very democratic beer at, I would think at the end of the day.

Did you

put Whitehorse, did the open fermentor?

Oh, all of our English beers go.

I should, I was gonna say that.

Yeah.

So the open fermentation tank we've talked about maybe, uh, many times we've, we've converted it to simulate how beers were fermented in England back in the day and today.

And that is to reduce stress on the yeast and to promote these, these lightly fruity notes.

Um.

Our yeast.

I talked about Augustine.

For our laggers, for our English ales, it's all about Timothy Taylor.

Timothy Taylor is related to the Green King and the Sam Smith Brewing Companies, and I think it makes if, as far as Swiss Army knives go, it's, it's a, whatever it, it's the broadest, it has the utility in so many different ways with the English beers.

So we do the, the Timothy Taylor on all these.

I Water.

Water?

Ooh,

that's a good question.

Well, fortunately you, you do pretty well with when you have dark beers at driving that pH down, which is another important factor in brewing.

And, uh, I didn't mention that previously when we were talking about the, our pilsner.

It's very light.

Well, you need a little assistance bringing that down.

Uh, if you're, if you're doing a light beer, you're gonna want to bring in.

Either some calcium or magnesium, which will drive your pH down, but you're not one, you don't wanna do that when you're making a pilsner.

One way you'll do that with a pilsner is you can use a German acidified malt, and then you ask yourself, well, how in the hell do the Germans do that with the rein heitz boat?

Well, guess what?

You can add water to malt and let the bacteria that sit on that malt acidify it over a given amount of time, and then you can dry that and use that as an ingredient to drop the pH.

I'm

raising my hand 'cause I have a question.

Yeah.

What's the a BV of our hilde?

Um, we try to keep that one below five.

That's traditional.

So it's like four point,

I think it's 4 7 4

8, 4 point.

And that's, that's a function of the, the, the residual sugar.

The final.

That's amazing.

' Allison Fleshman: cause isn't the White horse 4.4.

Or 4.5 I think it is.

Yeah.

Yeah.

That's amazing because one of the things that, I'm just changing the subject, not that I don't love your deep dive into all the fancy things.

Malt.

Yeah.

Peach.

Um, but I stopped paying attention as I was looking at my phone.

Um, but a lot of folks will tell us that, um, I don't like heavy beers or dark beers because they're just too high enough alcohol.

Oh, I don don't take their sip with their eyes first.

Sip with their eyes.

It's, yeah.

And the hilde, um.

And that we just did an episode on is very crisp and light.

She dances on the tongue water and she's considered

light in the spectrum of beers, right?

Yeah, but

she's higher alcohol.

Mm-hmm.

Than our heavy porter, which is not at all heavy.

It's very creamy, but it's also 4.6.

Another fun fact,

when they first started using, uh, hydrometers in the late 18th century, guess what the A VV was of porters at the time in London.

I'm gonna guess three and a half because I don't think they fermented well.

6.60, okay.

Yeah, so that was one of the, actually the first measurements they made was on that and it went down, I guess, in the Napoleonic era.

Okay.

That's cool.

Oh yeah.

Gotta ration it out.

Oh yeah.

I'm, now, I'm thinking about an old World Porter recipe, how you get to six, because they didn't ferment very well.

Wait a minute.

Wasn't really high.

Wasn't

the second chance Porter.

Second chance is.

Uh, she's related to this beer.

Is she?

Yeah.

Okay,

so you're good guy.

Oh, no, no, no.

Second

chance is a, is a would be bourbon age.

We've never done it.

Robust Porter.

I want to do this Double Mash and then Age It and Bourbon Barrel.

We're

talk.

We need to tell our listeners what we're talking about.

You

should you back up 20 steps.

Yes.

So the second chance Porter, what was the style?

Was it a robust porter?

I never made Second chance.

So it would've been not

here in,

I never like, or four times.

It was never made at at all.

In, in the real world.

It was, we won nationals with it.

Was that with Second Chance?

Yes.

Hang

on.

I don't remember.

Hang on.

We're having a marriage conversation right now.

No, that was a would be, you have

so many Goddamn awards, you don't even know what you

win.

Oh my God.

We won Silver in the National mca, the Home Brewer something, something Master competition

and something, yeah.

Yeah.

And the fun thing is like the medal is legit.

Big.

It's like, oh yeah,

it's, it's bigger than anything we've got.

It's just across

and it's thick and it's like silver.

I also

got that giant stein for that cider from, I won all of Texas

that's in the, that's downstairs in the tap room when he won the best cider in all of Texas.

Um, but no, the, the silver medal was um, that was our first surprised.

It was like a spur or something.

National win.

Yeah.

Um, God, that must have been 2010 time ago, maybe 2009.

Um, but that was Second Chance Porter, which was a, I wanna say it was a robust porter, but it was like it was

an American porter.

Okay.

Yeah.

And it's coming back to me now.

Yeah.

So that's a hoppy.

But this is one caramel where I told Bobby, he was like, what kind of beer do you want me to brew?

And I was like, I want you to brew a beer that has, like when you take a bite of vanilla ice cream.

And, but it's got drizzled hot chocolate on or hot syrup, chocolate syrup on top of it.

You smell the chocolate, but then you take the bite with the spoon and you get the cold feeling on your tongue.

That's the vanilla.

I want that contrast if I'm smelling the chocolate, but tasting the vanilla simultaneously and he made this beer.

Oh, so good.

Um, and we need a second chance after your dog.

We'll dig

that one up.

Yeah.

That recipe's buried somewhere.

I forgot about that.

Anyway.

In any

case, we talked about double, double strength on this beer and aging it in Bourbon Barrel, but that

thing was like eight or 9%.

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Also, by the way, oh, great segue.

We'll get back to the water question, but Whitehorse, we just put Whitehorse last year, maybe beginning of this year, we put it into uh, a cask with all 5 47 hops.

We were just fucking around and what came out was kind of mind blowing unanimously.

People were, were telling us this, this is the best black IPA, 'cause we were kind of like flying it under that name that you could ever have made.

'cause a black IPA is gonna look dark, it won't be.

Like Stout Roasty, and it should have these great, what we call Cascadian notes, these West coast, uh, hop notes.

And man, was it so good that we are releasing the other one or another one next week.

So we're gonna keep going.

Wait, what are we doing?

The, the West Coast, we're calling it hoppy horse.

We'll have to work on that name, but it's, I gave so many notes.

Well these are, they don't go anywhere 'cause we suck at marketing.

But, well,

well you, what is

the name of

this beer?

We don't have a good name yet, so.

Well, and we're Hoppy Horse is where we're, yeah.

Well, and this is, uh, I was gonna say, we um, we have fun with the White Horse is such a good base beer to add stuff to

like pumpkin a

Yes.

So the white horse mixed with our autumn spice.

Um, or, or, or our pumpkin nail or the, or the actual pumpkin nail, which we haven't done a pumpkin nail in a very long time because we keep doing autumn spice.

Um, we call it the iBod crane.

Um, just

iBod

or just iBod.

Um.

And it's a good mix.

It's half and half.

Mm-hmm.

But then

little whipped cream on top, very Rhine Heights could whip brew.

So the beer that

you're coming out with is a,

it's a West coast, you call it.

You really could call it a black IPA.

Everyone would.

But it's,

is it a porter just aged in an IPA barrel?

Yeah, it's, it's, it's a porter aged on the same hops that we would age 5 47 in.

No, with the hops.

Yeah.

Blew our minds.

Could you just

say dry hopped porter?

That's what it is.

It's a dry hop porter, but that's kind of pedestrian.

So, and at the end of the day, we didn't think we were gonna call it a black ip, but that's what we had in our glass.

So this is called hoppy horse.

It was

that good

because mint chocolate pony.

Is delicious.

And this is when we add chocolate mint oht chocolate girl

scout cookie one.

Yes.

Yes.

We add the

thin mint, well, not thin mints, but we add, we

simulate that.

Yeah.

We simulate

mint and chocolate in the white horse.

That's a good one.

Chocolate.

We, we won a beer

competition with that one once.

Did we?

Uh, one of the fan favorites at, in Green Bay.

Yeah.

Anyway, water.

I had not forgotten that.

So.

That's how we do the pilsner.

We, we put acid malt in that's produced in the German way.

This one doesn't need that because there's an liquidity.

Uh, there's a, there's a certain pH dropping potential with these dark malts that we use in this.

Otherwise, you're just looking for a balance of sulfates and chlorides.

So you can't just drop calcium into your beer.

You have to attach it to, by way of, Allison knows better than anyone their an ion, uh, whether that be chloride or sulfate.

And I'm not listening to you.

I'm sorry.

What?

Anyway, so, and each of those are flavor.

They, the fl they, they, they, they tilt the flavor.

So we drop a little bit of, of calcium chloride and calcium sulfate into this beer to get our calcium levels up, but we put 'em in an even quantity so that we don't tilt the flavor.

You know what's funny is I'm a chemist and I can speak chemistry, but I don't never understand what Bobby's telling me about.

Different salts that he's adding to do different flavor things.

That's, that's a, that's on you.

I,

yeah.

I

don't get it.

Well, the, I'm sorry.

High level is, uh, chloride gives you more mal impression and sulfate gives you more hoppy impression.

That's fair.

So in a

beer like this, I don't want to go extreme either one way or the other.

This is not like a Bach where it's a malt bomb and it's not like an IP where it's a hot bomb.

So that's really Gary, to your question about hop or, or, uh, water treatment, we're gonna drop both of those in at varying levels.

Alright, EV even levels.

So we talked about water, we talked about the malts, where you're getting 'em from.

Talked about how you picked the name of the beer.

Um, talk about how we used too many malts because a home brewer designed it and it's, it's a pain in the ass to brew day job.

I think one of the important things to talk about though, with the white horse, um.

Is, and Gary, you said this at the beginning about how it's one of the most prominent cask ails that we do, um, and the Cask Ale is.

I mean, one, it's a spectacle to see it poured.

Um,

Jeremy just got married this year.

Jeremy Deville.

Yeah.

And we brought one across the alley to his ceremony Uhhuh.

And he tapped it himself?

He did,

yeah.

It's a big deal.

Um, and I think that there's, there's a ceremonial part of the cask ails, um, that have the.

Um, kind of cascade and the, the, the beautiful bubbles and the creaminess and all that.

Um, but nitro beers, so Nitrogenated beers are really trying to simulate the cask.

Um, and I think the porter is this really great historical example of what beers tasted like, you know, 200 years ago.

Um, they really, yeah, like I was saying,

I think they went lighter and darker from it.

Yeah.

They really celebrate like what a beer should feel like when you're drinking one.

And it makes you, it screams that we should be making a smoked porter because I think that's what they would've tasted like

amazingly enough.

I'm so against this idea.

I don't like smoked beers.

No, I

think we definitely need to, to do this.

I've been asked to make smoked beers by that certain contingent.

That community, we've done it a few times and they disappear really quick.

Uh, smoked beers have a lane, and boy, that's a vocal minority.

Oh.

Gary's control.

How,

what makes a smoke?

Beer?

A smoke beer.

The the malt is, has been, uh, smoked.

I mean, so you, you, you either indirectly or, but usually in modern times it's gonna be indirect.

And those times it would've been more direct.

The advent of coke and.

Not the drug, but the advent of Coke, the eating source and uh, indirect heating has changed malting and flavor profile beer forever.

This is like our, um, conversation with the, um, oh goodness, what was his name?

I'm looking to David, the historian,

uh,

on

hows Yes.

Scotland doctor.

Um, we're playing charades.

Lewis Howes.

Yes, I think, yes.

No, it's not Anton.

Anton.

Oh yeah.

Yes.

I follow him on Twitter.

Anyway.

Alright, I think we've kind of,

uh, any, any last words on the White Horse?

Only that it's inspiring us to get a tiny horse, which I have a lead on.

I want to have our own little horse.

We're horse.

We're gonna deliver beer on College Avenue.

Oh my God.

Oh yeah.

No.

Our farmer has a horse that sits idle six days a week.

It also could be a unicorn for birthday parties.

Stop it.

That's an add-on.

This is not

okay.

Is it white?

Uh, it is.

Actually, now that you mention it,

although I would really like to have a brown Horse,

wizard of Oz for this other beer that you don't have a name for, horse of a different color.

There it

is.

There it is.

No hoppy horse.

Just call it what it is.

This is where we are terrible at it.

We make the product, we kick it out the door, and we hope for the best.

Alright, that's gonna conclude this episode of Respecting the Beer.

The producer of Respecting the Beer is David Kalsow and without David, this show would not exist.

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