Embark on a riveting journey into the world of prespawn smallmouth bass with host Marvin Cash as he sits down with Brendan Ruch on The Articulate Fly. Brendan opens up about his evolution from a young angler casting soft plastics to the founder of Ruch Angling. With a deep dive into the tactics that make spring smallmouth fishing exhilarating, he shares invaluable insights into the art of fly retrieval, the allure of the Leggy Boi and the importance of timing and technique in presenting streamers.

As the conversation flows, Brendan reflects on the mentors who've shaped his journey, from the TCO Fly Shop team to the innovative minds in Michigan. He reveals how gear fishing has honed his fly fishing skills, particularly in crafting and presenting predator flies that mimic wounded prey. Listeners will gain a unique perspective on the challenges and triumphs of guiding, the subtleties of smallmouth behavior and the thrill of witnessing savage topwater strikes.

Whether you're a novice casting your first streamer or an experienced angler seeking to refine your craft, this episode is a treasure trove of knowledge, humor and passion for the sport. So, grab your favorite fly rod, tune in and let Brendan's expertise and stories fuel your next fishing adventure.

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Helpful Episode Chapters

0:00 Introduction

7:22 Fishing with Gear vs. Fly

13:28 Individual Fish Personalities in Summer

15:38 Tips for Pre-Spawn Smallmouth Fishing

30:10 Fly Tying Influences

36:14 Fly Casting Challenges

42:35 Selling Fly Patterns

44:06 Guide Season Overview

Intro: Hey folks, it's Marvin Cash, the host of the Articulate Fly.

Intro: On this episode, I'm joined by Pennsylvania young gun, Brendan Roosh.

Intro: We talk pre-spawn smallmouth, tying predator flies, and his newly launched guide

Intro: company, Roosh Angling.

Intro: I think you're really going to enjoy this one, but before we get to interview,

Intro: just a couple of housekeeping items.

Intro: If you like the podcast, please tell a friend and please subscribe and leave

Intro: us a rating and reviewing the podcatcher of your choice. It really helps us out.

Intro: And we're excited to partner with our friends at Jesse Brown's to bring the

Intro: Chocolate Factory to Charlotte on May 4th.

Intro: Blaine will be teaching private tying classes, discussing predator and prey,

Intro: and sharing his favorite rod, reel, and line combos.

Intro: Check out the link in the show notes for more details.

Intro: Now, on to the interview.

Marvin: Well, Brendan, welcome to the Articulate Fly.

Brendan: Thanks for having me. Excited to be here. year yeah.

Marvin: I'm really looking forward to our conversation and we have a tradition on the

Marvin: articulate fly we like to ask all of our guests to share their earliest fishing memory.

Brendan: Uh there are so many memories i was trying to think about this earlier today

Brendan: um but basically just being on a reservoir with my dad throwing texas rigged

Brendan: soft plastics at lily pads heads,

Brendan: catching large mouth bass.

Brendan: My favorite memory from that era would be catching a very, very large fish on

Brendan: a top water frog and being heartbroken that he wouldn't let me keep it.

Brendan: Which, you know, today I totally understand why and I respect that decision.

Brendan: But man, I was pretty, pretty annoyed in the moment.

Marvin: Yeah. So before we go down the fly path, you know, what's your favorite color

Marvin: worm and what's your favorite color lizard?

Brendan: Hey, uh, for the worm, I think we were fishing a lot of, uh,

Brendan: I was grabbing the black and purple power worm.

Brendan: Then the lizard, I believe was pumpkin seed with a chartreuse tail.

Marvin: Yeah. Well, there you go. And so that's a really great segue into,

Marvin: you know, when did you start fly fishing?

Brendan: Uh, fly fishing came pretty late to me because no one in my family fly fish.

Brendan: So, uh, I had a pretty good foundation fishing for large mouth and some trout

Brendan: fishing, but But I started fly fishing senior year of high school.

Brendan: And it's only because I was getting outfished by fly fishermen on a trout stream in northeast VA.

Brendan: So it was out of necessity.

Marvin: Yeah, so the power bait and the spinners weren't getting it done?

Brendan: Yeah, those little jerk baits just weren't getting it done like those pheasant tails were.

Marvin: And so, of course, it's obviously been kind of downhill from there.

Marvin: So kind of who are some folks that have mentored you on your fly fishing journey?

Marvin: What have they taught you?

Brendan: There are a lot of people. Pretty much all of them are tied in with TCO one way or another.

Brendan: But John Parisi, Lenny Gliwa of TCO Bryn Mawr, that's where I got my start of

Brendan: my obsession in fly fishing.

Brendan: I got a job there like 2016.

Brendan: So they really got me dialed in on the trout stuff. We traveled a lot together

Brendan: in the state, but, you know, driving a few hours here and there on kind of like suicide run day trips.

Brendan: And then when it came to bass, it was it was Jake Golok kind of showed me the

Brendan: light that I could I could do what I loved, you know, as a kid, but with a fly.

Marvin: Yeah, that's pretty cool. And so when did you, you know, I imagine you probably

Marvin: kind of started out at TCO as a shop rat, right?

Marvin: Oh, yeah. And then, so when did you get the guide bug?

Brendan: Jake started to get busy enough to hire another guide.

Brendan: And it was right around maybe like my second year of employment there.

Brendan: There, he, we started kind of like float or he, he floated the idea past me

Brendan: and, uh, I bought a raft, started fishing, like you're floating every chance

Brendan: I could with, you know, guys from the shop, uh, from all four stores really.

Brendan: And, um, yeah, I mean, he, he brought me on and just kind of let me loose once he felt comfortable.

Marvin: Yeah. It's pretty interesting. We've had him on the podcast probably about the

Marvin: time, I guess his small mouth, you know, fly book came out and,

Marvin: you know, was interesting kind of how he was able to really kind of scale relentless yeah.

Brendan: It's there are so many uh you know guides under the relentless umbrella it's

Brendan: uh it's very very impressive and i had a great time working for those guys.

Marvin: Yeah it's interesting too because i guess uh naguski is under that umbrella

Marvin: too he's been on and uh as a matter of fact i think i met him when i met you

Marvin: at the probably the last fly tying symposium before covid right oh.

Brendan: Right yeah yeah.

Marvin: Um the It was a good time. Yeah, it wasn't. Absolutely, it was a good time and a simpler time.

Marvin: And, you know, so obviously I imagine Jake was influential. But,

Marvin: you know, who are some of the other folks that have kind of mentored you on

Marvin: your guide journey? And what do they teach you?

Brendan: So there are a lot of guides that work with TCO.

Brendan: And there was one in particular named Sam Galt that, I mean,

Brendan: he's been guiding for Trout in the state college area for years.

Brendan: And I was very nervous accepting money to take people fishing,

Brendan: especially like, you know, the first year.

Brendan: Um, and he, he kind of calmed me down and, uh, you know, he just, he told me,

Brendan: what, what the people expect, which I think is just to go out,

Brendan: have a good time, uh, and hopefully take something away from the day.

Brendan: You know, if it's not fish, it's going to be new tactics or,

Brendan: you know, some bad jokes or something.

Marvin: I like your jokes, actually.

Brendan: Sometimes they're pretty rough.

Marvin: It's okay. That's why this is a family show and we took some questions out.

Marvin: But anybody else that's kind of helped either steer you from a technical perspective

Marvin: or, you know, kind of what you were talking about earlier, kind of that kind

Marvin: of people skill, that expectation part of guiding?

Brendan: Um yeah i mean from the technical aspects like fishing

Brendan: with jake uh you know on the waters that we

Brendan: we got it on or we got on still um that

Brendan: was critical uh and then i traveled out

Brendan: to michigan with jake back in 2018 to fish

Brendan: with mike schultz justin kerbanek and james hughes and i don't think i've looked

Brendan: at smallmouth fishing the same since that trip i learned a ton of tactics from

Brendan: you Got a little piece of the pie put together from three of those guys.

Brendan: And yeah, I mean, the swim fly game out there and the way they use those flies

Brendan: to basically imitate lures that I was familiar with growing up.

Brendan: Yeah, I mean, it's an invaluable skill to have on the water.

Marvin: Yeah, you know, it's interesting because, I mean, I've kind of noticed that,

Marvin: you know, however you want to kind of brand them, the most successful people

Marvin: in our sport are, let's just say ambidextrous, right? They fish gear and they fish fly.

Marvin: And, you know, it's amazing because I know, you know, Blaine certainly does that.

Marvin: George Daniel does that. And I think that insight about fish behavior and how

Marvin: to catch them on gear and on bait, you know, really can make you a killer,

Marvin: you know, fly fishing angler.

Brendan: Yeah, I think specifically for presentations that require like a proper retrieve

Brendan: and you're fishing a fly as opposed to drifting.

Brendan: So like dry fly fishing, then fishing, maybe not learning a ton from gear fishing.

Brendan: But when you're working a lure or retrieving a fly...

Brendan: You know what's successful on the lure and over time you learn what's successful

Brendan: on the fly by fish input but um you're able to emulate lures like pretty successfully

Brendan: other than maybe like true bottom bouncing just because you're going to get

Brendan: hung up a lot more with a fly.

Marvin: Yeah it's interesting too because i mean you know we were

Marvin: both up in uh up in michigan for bob in the hood and

Marvin: i had never i'd been around mike but i hadn't kind of been in his shop and kind

Marvin: of seen the vibe there and i got to tell you that is an amazing operation that

Marvin: he's got with some incredibly um you know knowledgeable faithful and really

Marvin: just kind of great guys in the shop in terms of fishing gear and not gear.

Brendan: Yeah i was talking to

Brendan: someone about this recently um but they were like yeah man like the guys at

Brendan: mike's shop are always like super helpful and super knowledgeable and like he's

Brendan: been lucky enough to find guys that are sick for fishing like they're obsessed

Brendan: with it and some shops you know

Brendan: you have guys that are very personable but maybe not the techiest guys,

Brendan: um but yeah i mean they they've got a guy that does every kind of fishing you

Brendan: know available in the midwest and uh they're they're all pretty darn good at it yeah.

Marvin: Or you could walk into a fly shop in Montana in like middle of late September

Marvin: and basically have people super burned out.

Brendan: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Marvin: I've walked into that buzzsaw before, you know, so you've, I mean,

Marvin: yeah, it's just, they don't even care about fishing at that point anymore.

Marvin: Right. The, but, you know, so tell me a little bit about, you know,

Marvin: kind of as you've kind of worked on your guide chops, you know,

Marvin: what do you think is the secret to being a good guide, Brendan?

Brendan: I think it's being malleable and

Brendan: trying to be, you know, what the client wants you to be in that moment.

Brendan: I mean, especially when you're dealing with people that you've never met before,

Brendan: or maybe you've only chatted with on the phone briefly.

Brendan: Like from a personal standpoint like you know it's essentially,

Brendan: you know you're in customer service from the customer side and the fishing is separate in my opinion,

Brendan: same kind of thing with the shop like you can be a great shop guy but maybe

Brendan: defer questions to other people when it gets too technical,

Brendan: if you can be good at both I think that's what makes a great guide,

Brendan: Got it.

Marvin: And do you have a type of angler that you really, really like?

Marvin: I know you like, you know, you like to fish with everybody.

Marvin: But I mean, is there a particular type of angler that you like to get in your

Marvin: boat that you're like, this is going to be an exceptionally special day?

Marvin: Like, you know, I know some people like to teach. Some people like teaching kids.

Marvin: You know, is there anything like that that, you know, really gets you stoked for a day out?

Brendan: Uh, besides someone that is like down to learn and hunt big fish.

Brendan: I mean, like if, if I have a father son trip, that is going to be the best possible day.

Brendan: Like it just, it reminds me of, you know, being a kid fishing with my dad and

Brendan: fishing my grandfather and, uh, being a part of someone else's memories,

Brendan: you know, it's pretty special.

Marvin: Yeah. That's super cool. And so what do you think? I always ask guides this

Marvin: question too, you know, what do you think is the biggest misconception people

Marvin: have about the life of a fishing guide? Yeah.

Brendan: I think it varies for a lot of people, but, uh, you know, if you're,

Brendan: you're single, single income, you know, it can be kind of a little challenging in the off season.

Brendan: Um, especially if you're, you know, if you're not going to like,

Brendan: I'm lucky enough where I can muskie fish in the off season.

Brendan: I'm going to be doing some, some guiding here this coming year.

Brendan: But, uh, yeah, I think finding something to occupy your time in the off season,

Brendan: whether it be, you know, a side job or a different hobby, it's pretty important.

Brendan: And they don't go stir crazy.

Marvin: Yeah, and so it's kind of funny, and we talked about this a little bit at the

Marvin: beginning of the interview, you know.

Marvin: I mean, you know, people, I think, when they think about, like,

Marvin: central PA, they think probably trout first and not smallmouth,

Marvin: and, you know, you predominantly guide for smallmouth.

Marvin: You know, what kind of attracted you to them over trout?

Brendan: It's all about retrieving flies and fooling fish and watching them come in and

Brendan: just, like, If a fish is coming in kind of lazy and making it convert into an

Brendan: eat, that's really, really cool.

Brendan: Smallmouth provide chances for savage eats in the springtime.

Brendan: But you can get some sick eats in the summertime, subsurface too.

Brendan: But then in the summer, you can fish poppers aggressively.

Brendan: Watch them crush a popper or a whopper plopper if you're savvy.

Brendan: Savvy, but they'll also sip... The biggest fish in the river is going to sip

Brendan: a cork bug or a foam like Mr. Wiggly or something.

Brendan: For me, it's all about,

Brendan: being able to actively retrieve the fly and you're just a huge part of why that fish is eating.

Marvin: Yeah it's interesting i mean the uh kind of the summer bug thing i mean it's

Marvin: insanely frustrating to watch those guys skate for like six or eight feet behind

Marvin: a popper um and uh you twitch it and then they disappear which is kind of a bummer right yeah.

Brendan: Yeah and you could twitch it and have the fish do a 180 after it turns around

Brendan: or you could have a you you know, a fish spook off of it.

Brendan: I think that's kind of the cool thing about, about summer is like each fish

Brendan: shows its individual personality when you're bug fishing.

Marvin: Yeah. It's, it's interesting. Cause you know, kind of where I grew up kind of

Marvin: fishing the James and the Maury and places like that.

Marvin: It's, um, that heat is just so brutal, you know, and I have people kind of,

Marvin: you know, up in the mountains or maybe up where you are, they tell me that it's

Marvin: not as humid and hot, but you know, I always say, you know, So in July and August,

Marvin: you're not in the shade and the fish are.

Brendan: Yeah, exactly.

Marvin: And it makes, you know, 95 degrees and high humidity makes for a pretty grim

Marvin: outing. But yeah, it's good stuff.

Marvin: And, you know, it's interesting, too, because we were talking before we started

Marvin: recording, Brendan, about kind of the regional differences in smallmouth fisheries.

Marvin: Like I know, you know, the timber creates a certain element,

Marvin: you know, in Michigan, for example.

Marvin: You know, their seasonal differences, you know, based on how far north or south

Marvin: you are and kind of how big your water is,

Marvin: you know, how do you, you know, what do you see, I guess, in Pennsylvania that

Marvin: makes your smallmouth fisheries different than, say, Michigan and other places in the country?

Brendan: I think the lack of dams in the South Central PA region, like wood moves around a lot.

Brendan: We have a ton of ledges on every body of water I fish, some more than others, depending on the float.

Brendan: But you have bottom structure that's going to hold fish from bank to bank.

Brendan: Like some people go out there and pound the banks. you

Brendan: can go out there you can fish left bank middle

Brendan: sometimes you know the other bank's going to be good too but um

Brendan: the fish are going to be very spread out because there

Brendan: is structure almost everywhere in a

Brendan: lot of places they're on a lot of floats um so yeah learning learning those

Brendan: leggy sections during low water seasons is is crucial um because then you can

Brendan: hit those spots when you know the water's high and green and still be productive

Brendan: when they're not on the banks or per se yeah.

Marvin: Got it and you know it's interesting too because i think we're kind of really

Marvin: kind of in the thick of pre-spawn smallmouth fishing here kind of in the mid-atlantic

Marvin: and i was kind of curious if you could uh if i could pry a couple tips for you

Marvin: to share with our listeners about how to be successful during this time of the year on the water.

Brendan: Yeah, I think the most common mistake I see this time of year from people coming

Brendan: on the boat, and it could be friends, fellow industry guys, the fly has to kick, maybe kick twice,

Brendan: and then pause long enough for those fish to want to move out of their lie and eat it.

Brendan: We haven't really hit over 52-degree water temps yet.

Brendan: Um so like fishing has got to be slow right now and when i have a guy that can

Brendan: really dial in like rod tip movements or even like an aggressive upstream mend into his presentation,

Brendan: usually that's when i we're gonna have the most success that day got.

Marvin: It so it's almost uh you know the fish are kind of sluggish and so you kind

Marvin: of have to kind of bonk them on the nose a little bit and kind of um piss them

Marvin: off to get them to eat i guess.

Brendan: Yeah i mean it's it's

Brendan: kind of just like imitating a wounded fish it's gonna kick side to side and

Brendan: then right now we're fishing a lot of like circus peanuts um personally i'm

Brendan: fishing if i'm going out right now i'm fishing a leggy boy every time because

Brendan: i think that's kind of filled the circus peanut um role in my fly arsenal,

Brendan: but you're able to fish that fly as fast as you want or as slow as you want.

Brendan: And if you add enough legs to offset the weight in the fly, that thing's going

Brendan: to glide, hover, and then start to drop real slow.

Brendan: But it's always going to stay where you want it to stay as long as you give it slack or tension.

Marvin: Got it. I was getting ready to say. So really the attraction for that fly is

Marvin: really the ability to kind of hang it or suspend it.

Brendan: Yeah yeah yeah definitely like an unweighted changer and a sinking line isn't

Brendan: going to get you the same results that you can get with an intermediate line and a weighted fly that,

Brendan: it's weighted but there's so much drag from

Brendan: the legs and the brush head and you know if you tie the the body pretty dense

Brendan: with the feathers like you can make that fly hang there and that's when they're

Brendan: going to swim through at this time of year like they they don't want to see

Brendan: that thing diving to the bottom uh or being stripped you know perpendicular

Brendan: from the bank or something like that got.

Marvin: It and for people that i guess aren't familiar with the leggy boy i guess kind

Marvin: of the i guess the way i kind of think about it is it's kind of like a feather

Marvin: changer with a bunch of legs on it.

Brendan: Yeah totally yeah um so i i fish them with like a pretty long stiff marabou tail tail.

Brendan: Um, so if I can find marabou feathers, like maybe like the, you know,

Brendan: short stubby ones, um, still like uniform and good quality, but they have a

Brendan: little bit thicker, um, like vein or stem.

Brendan: Um, so I'll tie four of those in and that allows the tail to whip a little bit

Brendan: more like rooster tail, but still swim and undulate on those long pauses.

Marvin: Yeah. It's almost like you want the mirror boo that you don't want for kind of willy boogers yeah.

Brendan: Yeah like i don't want it to be too sparse otherwise you don't really get as

Brendan: much of a kick if you're hard stripping it.

Marvin: And so for you and in pre-spawn you know when do you expect to kind of to see

Marvin: see the bass kind of you know move from pre-spawn to spawn it kind of what's

Marvin: the water temperature that you

Marvin: kind of set like you know we got to leave them alone for a little while

Marvin: and go chase trout or go do something else uh.

Brendan: Usually it's right around like april 15th here um and you know like as you become

Brendan: more familiar with the body of water you know where the beds are going to be

Brendan: so you know you can row over there and say oh yep there are two beds and then

Brendan: you know go on about your way like fishing the middle of the river or fishing current seams,

Brendan: but uh yeah i'm i'm anti messing with bed fish at this point like not necessary

Brendan: you're still going to find fish that are either post-spawn or pre-spawn while their fish are on beds.

Marvin: Yeah i think it's a tough thing too particularly kind of like where i grew up

Marvin: and fished in central virginia we've had you know probably most years out of

Marvin: the last probably eight to ten we've had these scouring floods during the spawn

Marvin: um yeah and so kind of whatever you can do to leave them alone so that there

Marvin: are a few more in the river, I think is a good idea.

Brendan: Yeah, for sure. And, you know, if you're bed fishing, I feel like what you're

Brendan: doing is testing your, your accuracy at that point.

Brendan: Cause if something falls on the bed, like the fish is going to move it,

Brendan: you know, it is what they do. They're like programmed to do that.

Marvin: Yeah. It's kind of interesting. I don't know. Did you, uh, did you go see the

Marvin: F3T movies and there was one about them and then they were basically fishing

Marvin: for peacock bass on beds?

Brendan: Uh, I did not see them this year.

Marvin: Yeah, it was kind of interesting. I was like, that's kind of weird.

Marvin: I mean, you know, something that most fly anglers generally won't do,

Marvin: but I guess to each his own. I don't have a movie though, so.

Marvin: Not yet. Not yet. Well, it's coming, folks. And so, you know,

Marvin: the interesting thing is you've kind of gone out on your own,

Marvin: you've got Roosh Angling, and so I'm always curious too to kind of,

Marvin: you know, you've had time to kind of build, you know, kind of what you like

Marvin: your daily program to be.

Marvin: Why don't you let us know a little bit about kind of what a day on the water

Marvin: is like with Brendan Roosh?

Brendan: Um so we're gonna meet at the ramp put the boat in do a shuttle and uh i think

Brendan: one of the most important questions i ask for some people is uh do you want

Brendan: to listen to music on the boat,

Brendan: and uh if you say yes it's probably going to be a pretty fun day but uh yeah i mean i we're just

Brendan: locked in fishing hard with

Brendan: many breaks for laughter um fist bumps but

Brendan: yeah i mean it really depends on person to person but a lot of people at this

Brendan: point are you know they've been in the boat with me before um so we're kind

Brendan: of dialing in the program for that day um tactics wise and i'm joking around

Brendan: and having fun in between yeah.

Marvin: And so you know you've piqued my curiosity on the the music side so you know

Marvin: what are your three favorite boat playlists.

Brendan: Haha uh,

Brendan: Anyone that knows me knows I have to say, like, Doja Cat and Dua Lipa.

Brendan: But my guys I had today, we had a great experience last year fishing the DMX pretty much all day.

Brendan: You know, what these fishes want, that's a good one.

Brendan: But, yeah, I mean, you know, if someone requests music, we're obviously going to listen to that.

Brendan: But usually kind of upbeat, pop, or, like, future, for instance.

Brendan: Get some, you know, some hard vibes on the boat.

Brendan: Usually pretty confidence inspiring yeah.

Marvin: So you're not doing yacht rock like steely dan or anything like that.

Brendan: I've been known to play some yacht rock depending on the crowd.

Marvin: And do you generally do you prefer for people to fish your gear um or do you

Marvin: like them to bring their own or do you not care.

Brendan: I'll i'll give you a list uh and you

Brendan: know if you don't have an intermediate line you have let's say

Brendan: like a 25 foot sinking line type

Brendan: six then yeah you're fishing myself but you know

Brendan: if you have a an eight weight with an intermediate line and

Brendan: we're totally in good shape you can you can fish your

Brendan: gear I'll build you a leader yeah no preference for me but I do have you know

Brendan: a whole fleet of Loomis rods right now we're fishing the NX plus swim flies

Brendan: and it's a pretty good experience yeah.

Marvin: And so do you generally fish an intermediate or do you also like to fish a floater.

Brendan: I don't do a ton of floating line fishing in the springtime.

Brendan: Obviously, in the summertime, topwater fishing, yeah, definitely.

Brendan: But if we're on one of the bigger rivers in the spring, a sink tip,

Brendan: like type 3 or type 6, can be really useful.

Brendan: Because then you can kind of play a neutrally buoyant fly, almost like a leggy

Brendan: buoy, where you're letting that short tip dig when it has slack.

Brendan: And then you're working that column. And then, uh, you can either introduce

Brendan: tension or introduce slack, just like you would to the fly on a leggy boy.

Marvin: Uh, got it. And so I guess maybe your water's bigger. Cause I know some guys

Marvin: like to fish like floaters when they're fishing crayfish and things.

Marvin: Cause I like to get that up and down action. Right.

Marvin: Um, but it sounds like you're doing the same thing with deep in deeper water,

Marvin: uh, with sink tips, right?

Brendan: Yeah. With the same tip thing, that's, you know, spring flows on the bigger

Brendan: river, like Susquehanna, Juniata.

Brendan: A um it allows you to get

Brendan: that hard kick and you know almost

Brendan: glide out of those neutrally buoyant flies um like

Brendan: a brush head deceiver from alex lapkus is a big one i'm a fan of um but yeah

Brendan: so it allows you to get that kick pause and before the lines start dragging

Brendan: it down you can get a real nice like you know two count hang before it starts to get tension again got.

Marvin: It and you know know, it's interesting, you know, you know, I met you kind of

Marvin: through tying. So I was kind of curious, you know, when did you get interested in being a fly tire?

Brendan: Uh when i first started at tco i for some

Brendan: reason i didn't think i would tie flies i was like oh i thought

Brendan: i could just buy him i'll buy him um and then

Brendan: of course you know a couple months into working there uh my buddy uh

Brendan: casey the giovanni was like come on man you gotta tie flies like you can't work

Brendan: here and not tie um so he set up a vice and uh i think we tied a squirmy wormy

Brendan: that day um actually i tied an f fly with john parisi before that the brimmar shot,

Brendan: um i think it's called a fly it's like some sort of like tent wing dry fly maybe cdc,

Brendan: but uh yeah so i got i got uh i got into time shortly after working at tco and

Brendan: once i started streamer fishing is when i i just became obsessed with it i don't

Brendan: know how much money i've spent on streamer fly tying but i know i never want

Brendan: to see that number well yeah i.

Marvin: Was with you guys in michigan and it was kind of funny watching you and braden

Marvin: and austin talk about how much money you had in your baskets.

Brendan: Oh my god yeah schultz outfitters is like uh you know it's a place you don't

Brendan: want to be if you have loose loose morals when it comes to spending money Yeah.

Marvin: It's kind of like the world's largest cannabis shop, except it's for a predator fly tying material.

Brendan: Oh, yeah, for sure.

Marvin: Yeah.

Brendan: He's got everything you could ever want.

Marvin: So what do you tie on today?

Brendan: Um, I tie on a Renzetti presentation 2000 with the game changer jaws that Blaine designed.

Brendan: And I've been tying on that for like three years.

Marvin: Yeah. It's interesting. I've got two travelers here on my desk.

Marvin: I used to have one for the office and one for the house and now the office is at the house.

Marvin: So I have two of them. So, um, yeah, it's interesting. I mean,

Marvin: I, I love them. They're indestructible.

Marvin: Um, and now the next time I go tie on them, I'll probably break something.

Marvin: But, yeah, it's interesting, too, on the predator-fly thing because,

Marvin: you know, I kind of look at kind of the evolution, and it's kind of almost like

Marvin: the way that space is developed,

Marvin: it's almost kind of an old-school way where people had to go back and figure

Marvin: out stuff, kind of like, you know, previous generations had to figure stuff

Marvin: out because you couldn't just go watch a YouTube video.

Marvin: I mean, now you can for some stuff. But, you know, all of the,

Marvin: you know, design and thought process and problem solving to me,

Marvin: you know, in that space has been very, very old school.

Brendan: Yeah, I mean, they're basically starting from ground zero.

Brendan: I mean, they had hooks and shanks, but the shanks weren't what they are today, obviously.

Brendan: I think like, you know, the circus peanut, uh, I wasn't around fishing back

Brendan: then, but, uh, I mean, it's obviously made a huge impact.

Brendan: So that would be Russ Madden circus peanut, um, super versatile fly and,

Brendan: you know, getting the two hook platform going definitely changed everything.

Marvin: Yeah. It's interesting, you know, like talking to Blaine about him,

Marvin: like literally in his garage, cutting shanks with bolt cutters.

Marvin: Right. Now we just go and there are multiple companies and you just buy what you want.

Brendan: Yeah. You're pretty fortunate.

Marvin: Yeah. As opposed to basically drinking beer in the garage with a vice and a

Marvin: pair of bolt cutters every Sunday afternoon.

Brendan: Yeah. I mean, I was very lucky because the Schultz Outfitters YouTube was just

Brendan: kind of, I guess, getting started when I started tying these flies.

Brendan: Um so like you know the first feather game changer video i must have watched

Brendan: that while i was tying like 200 times like each shank like all right are these proportions right,

Brendan: um i definitely am a perfectionist when it comes to fly tying so i'll i'll spend

Brendan: way too much time on a fly just because i know if i don't like the way it looks i'm never gonna fish it,

Brendan: But yeah, YouTube and looking at Instagram photos for Density and Taper was

Brendan: definitely a very big influence on me.

Brendan: So that would be the Schultz Outfitters account and then obviously Blaine Chocolates account.

Marvin: Yeah. And so if you're a perfectionist tying flies, does that make it more likely

Marvin: that you'll scream at clients that lose flies on the first cast?

Brendan: We don't lose flies.

Marvin: Are you a scuba diver? or do you have like fins and a mask and you're like,

Marvin: you know, diving down, pulling them off of logs and rocks?

Brendan: No, I've been known to sacrifice a rod tip for a fly.

Brendan: But yeah, I mean, we get, we get them.

Marvin: Yeah. That's an interesting use of the lifetime warranty, but you got to do

Marvin: what you got to do, right?

Brendan: Yeah, for sure.

Marvin: So you mentioned Blaine and you mentioned the guys at Schultz's,

Marvin: you know, who are some other tires that have influenced you in your,

Marvin: your development as a predator fly tire?

Brendan: Um we're going back to michigan and it's going to be russ madden and alex lapis for sure,

Brendan: the lapis brush head deceiver i think that

Brendan: video dropped like three years ago and it was very interesting to me because

Brendan: it was basically like taking elements from maybe like the swing and d platform

Brendan: and applying it to a much easier fly to tie and cast,

Brendan: maybe not easier to tie but it's going to be a shorter time at the vice and

Brendan: it ended up proving to be really crucial in the guide program because someone that can't cast,

Brendan: 30 hen saddle feathers wrapped on a bunch of shanks they can cast this fly that's,

Brendan: bucktail, craft fur two shlopped feathers and two rooster saddle feathers for the tail Got it.

Marvin: And what about Russ's designs? What kind of caught you there?

Brendan: Um the circus peanut being like tied in the round like a changer like i i started tying peanuts,

Brendan: right around the time i started tying feather changers so

Brendan: like both of them kind of blended together as i

Brendan: was tying them because it was similar um i guess

Brendan: tactics and the way you tie them um or

Brendan: methods similar methods but uh yeah the

Brendan: peanut early on in my like pre-spawn

Brendan: fishing was crucial because you're you're getting those flies down right

Brendan: away off the bank or off the structure and depending

Brendan: on how you know you can put lead eyes tongues and

Brendan: beads you can put bead chain eyes but you can tweak

Brendan: that fly to match the conditions you have and i think that was really cool to

Brendan: like from a not a design perspective but just tying what you need to match the

Brendan: current conditions it's important and eventually you know i'm in year seven

Brendan: i think Like, I have all those flies still.

Brendan: And, uh, it's like you have a whole arsenal of different weighted flies to basically

Brendan: accomplish any task that you run into.

Marvin: Yeah. It's funny you say that while you were saying that it made me think about

Marvin: like my bonefish box, right.

Marvin: With the different, uh, eye weights, right. And you have them arranged and that's

Marvin: like the whole, the whole nine yards, right. One feet, two feet, three feet of water.

Brendan: Yeah.

Marvin: And so who, in addition, you know, to Russ, has kind of influenced you as you've

Marvin: kind of developed on the tying front?

Brendan: Um, so I, I did, uh, I spent a couple of summers on Jake's couch and we would,

Brendan: uh, you know, if we had the energy, um, we would stay up tying flies and,

Brendan: you know, going through our boxes and stuff.

Brendan: Um, we tied a lot of, uh, of changers. I still owe him some craft fair changers,

Brendan: but for a while I was paying rent and craft fair changers.

Brendan: But he was he was tying mallard flanks or mallard changers at the time which

Brendan: is something that i don't even have the patience for but uh yeah i mean jake's

Brendan: roamer um super effective,

Brendan: and uh i never got the hang of using laser dub but uh yeah i mean time with

Brendan: jake was always was always a good time and always learned something and.

Marvin: Do you have a favorite flavor of changer ice cream?

Brendan: Ooh.

Brendan: Favorite to fish would be a craft bird changer just because you can make it

Brendan: do a bunch of different things.

Brendan: I think craft bird is a really cool material, the way it interacts with water.

Brendan: But I would say, like, if we're speaking strictly changers, it would be like

Brendan: a brushhead feather changer with a moth tail.

Brendan: Maybe a 316 tungsten bead.

Marvin: Yeah, it's because you like the kick, right? Yeah.

Brendan: Yeah. Yeah. The tail absorbs water. I don't think I have any feather changers

Brendan: in my box that aren't a mock tail, honestly.

Marvin: Yeah. Interesting. And so, you know, kind of as you've evolved,

Marvin: I mean, are there any, you know, kind of patterns or techniques that you're known for?

Brendan: Um i've never i've never designed a fly but i would say if someone knows me

Brendan: through fly tying they know that i'm tying blaine's flies joltus flies and um russ and and lapkus,

Brendan: they're the the big four that uh you know i'm tying at shows or if you're at

Brendan: a show you'll see my box it's it's going to be mostly flies from those guys or variations of yeah.

Marvin: And you've told me that you you know you're kind of tying flies to solve problems

Marvin: which is what guides do right you know what are kind of the core you know fishing

Marvin: problems or presentations that you're looking for for smallmouth that you like to tie around.

Brendan: Well a problem that i run into often is uh,

Brendan: you know if someone can't do the rod tip movements that i mentioned earlier

Brendan: to to move their fly especially in a spot where i want to get more than one

Brendan: cast like i'm I'm slowing the boat down slower than the current.

Brendan: Tying a fly that's basically the leggy boy has solved those problems for me,

Brendan: but tying a fly that's able to stay down while they're stripping and still kick under tension.

Brendan: So someone might not be able to do the right Kelly Gallop jerk strip,

Brendan: but if they can get that fly to at least kick, kick, and then maybe stop with

Brendan: like more of a trout emend,

Brendan: then that's still going to be effective.

Marvin: Got it. You know, any other, you know, situations, either kind of specific triggers

Marvin: you like for smallmouth or other kind of, we'll just say, angler assist issues?

Brendan: Um, the angler assist aspect of like just casting these flies, um,

Brendan: you know, a lot of people that come out and it's their first time casting streamers,

Brendan: like they're not going to be able to cast a game changer off the bat.

Brendan: So single hook flies, uh, like the roamer, um, or articulated flies like that.

Brendan: Alex Lafkus brush head receiver, like those flies are crucial because they're

Brendan: easy to get them to kick, especially the Lafkus fly.

Brendan: Um, just because that little brush

Brendan: head pushes water like a Buford and the backend is kind of whips around.

Brendan: Um, so it's very simple to get that fly to kick, but it's also easy to have

Brendan: someone deliver it where they want to deliver it.

Brendan: Cause if they can't get the fly there, then, you know, why do you even have a game changer on?

Marvin: Yeah. Then you have to listen to Steely Dan, right?

Brendan: Yeah, or maybe the Smiths, because we'll be a little sad.

Marvin: Yeah, you could kill yourself if you listen to that stuff too long.

Marvin: So what is it that you see with the changers that people have problems with?

Marvin: Do they generally false cast too much and they dry the fly out and it becomes

Marvin: air resistant? Or is it just the entire thing of not having,

Marvin: you know, not having really practiced fishing, you know, casting big streamers before?

Brendan: Um, yeah, I think it's a combination of a lot of things. The number one thing

Brendan: is probably that I tie a pretty dense fly for the most part.

Brendan: So like, you know, if you get, if you buy a fly from the chocolate factory,

Brendan: will it be easier to cast than a fly that's in my box? Probably.

Brendan: Um, and I'm tying them dense just to get the most action out of them that you

Brendan: possibly can just to divert that water.

Marvin: So, I mean, if you're tying them dense, that seems, that would tell me, right.

Marvin: That probably most anglers you know they're going to hold a lot more water right

Marvin: and so yeah they basically have it's almost like a you know like a rock spinning

Marvin: around at the tip of the rod if they're not really smooth it's really kind of

Marvin: hard to kind of get a good forecast and a back cast right yeah.

Brendan: I mean most people especially you know coming from or living in an area where,

Brendan: trout is a predominant fly game species um you know most people are at most

Brendan: used to casting an an indicator.

Brendan: So teaching someone timing is very important, uh, especially,

Brendan: you know, their first time casting streamers, like, you know,

Brendan: turn your head, watch it, watch your back cast. Like that's crucial.

Brendan: Um, but yeah, I think, you know, some people don't have, uh,

Brendan: you know, maybe they're not locking their, their arm up in the right way to,

Brendan: uh, to stop that rod when that fly pulls back on them or something.

Brendan: But, uh, there, there are a lot of little issues we can work out on the boat,

Brendan: but for some people, uh, you know, very, a very small percentage of people like

Brendan: just don't, they don't get the change or they get the lab display.

Marvin: Yeah. It's interesting. Cause it sounds like, you know, when you solve those

Marvin: problems, it'll also make your musky casting life a whole lot easier. Right.

Brendan: Yeah it definitely like correlates to musky fishing for sure and it gets amplified

Brendan: once the flies get bigger obviously yeah.

Marvin: And then i'd imagine too is it kind of warms up and maybe you're trying to cover

Marvin: more water you know it's just it's like musky fishing like there is a huge difference

Marvin: between casting 75 and 60 feet right.

Brendan: Yeah and there's also a

Brendan: huge difference like most of the time when

Brendan: you're setting up on a spot uh you know if

Brendan: you cast right on what you're trying to fish like where you think

Brendan: the fish is none of the flies that we're fishing are

Brendan: really going to catch that fish so you're kind

Brendan: of like casting maybe like slightly beyond with the

Brendan: intention of coming across that spot or if you're fishing wood maybe you can

Brendan: if it's submerged wood you can cast past the wood do like a nice like uh reach

Brendan: cast or just kind of like raise your rod tip and reposition your line upstream

Brendan: um to get that fly where you want it but the line is already

Brendan: kind of sinking under that under that slack yeah.

Marvin: Yeah it's interesting and you know the other the other thing i always like to

Marvin: ask tires is i bet you've got some crazy goofball tool uh that no one people

Marvin: that tie with you know about right or people that watch on your instagram live

Marvin: know about but you probably can't live without it and you know when you tell

Marvin: people about they're gonna be like damn i should tie with that too.

Brendan: Um back when

Brendan: i was uh just started the gco i think i stole a comb from my my parents closet

Brendan: and that comb has traveled to every fly show with me and that's uh that's for

Brendan: like brushing out like craft or um crustaceans brush heads and things like that before i trim them got.

Marvin: It and uh is it like a like a comb made out of bone or something so it doesn't

Marvin: hold static electricity or is it just a good old-fashioned comb that you stole?

Brendan: Good old fashioned comb. It's

Brendan: about maybe six inches long. One side's a little finer than the other.

Marvin: Got it. And I know that, uh, I, I occasionally see your patterns for sale at Schultz Outfitters.

Marvin: I mean, are there other places where people can see your patterns and, uh, and, and buy them?

Brendan: Uh as of right now you can only see him on the boat i

Brendan: uh i got i'm working for one of my clients in the off season so the uh the tying

Brendan: orders are closed um you know unless you really want one but uh yeah it was

Brendan: very i was very fortunate to be able to you know have flies in shelter shop

Brendan: that was that was really cool um but uh yeah the selling flies is it's it's

Brendan: also getting tougher just due to the shortage of materials and the realm that

Brendan: i'm in like hen saddles were nearly impossible to find yeah.

Marvin: Got it and also too i mean it's just it's it is insanely time consuming and

Marvin: there's all kinds of stuff that people that that buy flies don't understand

Marvin: like federal excise tax and all that kind of nutty stuff that you know makes it.

Brendan: A little.

Marvin: Bit less fun than it should be. So I guess maybe, you know, kind of watch maybe,

Marvin: you know, Schultz Outfitters and see if like maybe for Bob in the Hood,

Marvin: maybe you tie some flies or something like that.

Marvin: But otherwise, they need to come fish with you and make you listen to Steely

Marvin: Dan and the Smiths until you cough up a fly.

Brendan: Yeah, I mean, you know, if you catch a 20-inch fish and you ask for a fly,

Brendan: you're probably going to get that fly.

Marvin: Got it.

Brendan: Kind of like as a little trophy.

Marvin: Yeah, there you go. 100%. I've got a few of those. As a matter of fact,

Marvin: I've got a circus peanut and a hat from Montana.

Marvin: Oh, nice. Yeah, yeah, for sure.

Marvin: And so before I let you go, Brendan, is there anything else you'd like to share with our listeners?

Brendan: Um, yeah, you can find more at, uh, at Brendan Roosh on Instagram.

Brendan: Um, website's not up and running yet, but it will be rooshangling.com.

Brendan: But, uh, yeah, I'm very happy to be on here.

Brendan: Um, I feel very fortunate to be in the position I'm in right now,

Brendan: uh, working for myself, lots of good friends across the industry.

Brendan: And, um, yeah, I'm just looking forward to see what the future holds.

Marvin: Yeah, for sure. And you also have been known to do some Instagram live tying

Marvin: stuff too on your Instagram channel, right?

Brendan: Uh yeah yeah so i recently have been doing lives tying with the log jam fishing

Brendan: company good friends over at log jam and uh that's been like tuesday nights

Brendan: at 8 30 uh but they'll they'll post whenever we do a live that that might change at some point got.

Marvin: It and so you know your small mouth guiding up in central pa kind of what does

Marvin: your season look like and you know when do you head to Virginia to do the muskie fishing?

Brendan: So my season in Pennsylvania usually starts mid-March.

Brendan: I was down in Virginia from mid-March this year, so I got back the last week of March.

Brendan: And the whole springtime flows, pre-spawn, post-spawn fishing,

Brendan: will go from then until about sometimes the first week of June if we have good water.

Brendan: And around that time, we'll switch over to more summer tactics.

Brendan: Go to go to some bigger water fishing ledges

Brendan: things like that on uh you know the juniata or the susquehanna and from then

Brendan: you know we move into top water season and you know fishing crayfish weighted

Brendan: flies uh that runs until the fall and um,

Brendan: It seems really far away right now, but we'll be there in a heartbeat.

Marvin: Yeah, and then I guess probably a couple weeks before Thanksgiving,

Marvin: you'll head to Virginia and guide that season out until you start all over again, right?

Brendan: Yeah. I'm not sure if I'll be working full-time down there for those guys,

Brendan: but I'll be down there on an as-needed basis, especially for group trips.

Marvin: Yeah.

Brendan: But yeah, I also do work with Virginia Trophy guides, That's the Josh Lafferty

Brendan: and Captain Austin Conrad, along with Brady Braden Miller.

Marvin: Yeah, Skippy Bridges.

Brendan: Yeah.

Marvin: Well, that's awesome. And so, you know, you want to let folks know,

Marvin: you know, your preferred way.

Marvin: You know, obviously we've got the handle for your website and Instagram,

Marvin: but, you know, what's the best way for folks to get in touch with you if they

Marvin: want to get on your guide calendar this year?

Brendan: Um my phone number you know give me a call or shoot me a text would be number

Brendan: one for sure um and then email it's going to be bruce angling at gmail.com r-u-c-h is bruce.

Marvin: Gotcha and i will drop your cell phone number in the show notes so everybody

Marvin: can get to that uh right from the episode great thank you awesome well listen

Marvin: uh brendan it's been fun having you on and uh look Look forward to seeing you

Marvin: on the water at a show soon.

Brendan: Yeah, you'll have to come up.

Marvin: Absolutely.

Brendan: Thanks for having me.

Marvin: You bet. Take care.

Brendan: Yeah, take care.

Intro: Well, folks, I hope you enjoyed that as much as we enjoyed bringing it to you.

Intro: Don't forget to check out the link in the show notes for The Chocolate Factory

Intro: in Charlotte on May 4th. Tight lines, everybody.