Transcripts
Well, here we are another Kelly and Leigh Ann episode. And we always spend a little time before recording talking about what, would be valuable, what would be worth someone's time listening to and coming into the holiday season. Some of you may know that I launched the sanctuary season community experience inside of the healing alchemy membership. And it's all about we're coming into a season that I think for so many of us is typically.
It can be as anxiety inducing and depleting as it is uplifting. And in fact, for many, that scale is quite imbalanced. It's far more depleting than it is nourishing. And so I wanted to create that little two week experience within the membership to kind of help us go, does it have to be that way? Or is there more within my power than I've previously thought?
to make this season more aligned, authentic, and nourishing than it has been in years past. And so we're going to talk more, you know, for those who are in the membership, you can work through those two weeks. There's something to do every single day. It's still live. It'll be live probably through mid December, and then I'm going to close it out and it'll be gone for the year until next holiday season. Cause we'll be moving into a different group experience come January, but we're also going to talk about it more in depth here of
holidays and this idea of soul care versus self care. And how do we, you know, how do we find our inner power and our inner alignment? And then how does that translate into external changes we might need this holiday season? So where should I start, Kelly?
Kelly (:Beautiful. I know it's, I know we could really go in so many directions, but I feel like we should probably just take a little minute to talk about the differences between soul care and self care in your mind and maybe come to some definitions we can use for the rest of the conversation.
Leigh Ann Lindsey (:Yeah, it's funny because I just started seeing this happening with myself first and foremost, and then with clients too, where this list of things that used to be super calming and uplifting has now become just another thing on the to-do list. I have to sauna, I have to do my walk, I have to take my supplements, I have to go to bed early and...
They're far less emotionally nourishing than they might have been when we first brought those in. And I think that's not to dismiss that those things might still be really important. And your body might really need some of those things, right? Especially for a lot of my cancer and chronic illness patients. We do have to do those things and they might not be the most emotionally soul fulfilling, uplifting things we've ever done. And yet it is still loving to the self.
Kelly (:Yeah.
Leigh Ann Lindsey (:to do these things. But I think what I'm seeing start to happen is we have this checklist of things we're doing and they're all things maybe for many of us just for the body and not for the emotions, not for the spirit, not for the soul, not for the psyche. Or if we are doing some things that might be emotionally supportive like meditation or vagus nerve practices, there's still a little bit in that realm of like
I have to do this or I should do this, this isn't necessarily the thing that just feels so good for me. And so to your point, like what's the definition, soul care versus self care? I don't know that there is an explicit definition, but I think a part of the distinguishing factor that's come down to it for me is a lot of what I have found goes in my soul care bucket is almost inherently unproductive.
Kelly (:I'm
Kelly (:Yeah.
Leigh Ann Lindsey (:It's not the, I'm going to do the five minute meditation so I can say I did it and then move on with my life. Even my morning walks that used to be so soul nourishing started to become the shoulds. Well, I should do this. And that's not to say that I can't rework my morning walks so that they become a soulful nourishing thing again. But as soon as I start to go, well, I...
Kelly (:Yeah.
Leigh Ann Lindsey (:I should do this walk, but I'm kinda busy today, so I'm gonna do a 30 minute instead of an hour, and I'm gonna kinda rush through it. We've lost all of it.
Kelly (:Right, right. Might as well stay home at that point. Right. Yeah.
Leigh Ann Lindsey (:And like, did I still get benefits from moving my body and getting sunshine? Totally. Did I get the soul nourishment? Not necessarily. And so a part of it has just been like, it's almost inherently unproductive, which I think makes, makes that one of the biggest reasons why it's those things that get put on the back.
Kelly (:Yeah, I'm joking about staying home because like that's how it feels. You start to feel like, well, if I can't really do all the things and I'm not going to do it at all and it's not showing, it's not doing the thing that I needed to do and I'm not able to get all the benefits out of it. So why bother except, you know, the, the practice of tending to our soul yearnings is
a practice, can feel a little bit uncomfortable, but it also at some point takes, it's like a tight muscle. Like the more you kind of lean into it and continue a stretch into that, that tightness, the more the muscle just then gives away and the benefits really flow in. And sometimes when we're just checking boxes and we're, you know, we're just like rushing it through a season of life, which, you know, the holidays inherently are kind of.
that for a lot of us. I think we don't give ourselves a lot of time to really let the muscles of our inner worlds kind of, you know, like loosen and flow in the ways that we kind of need to be giving them, especially in times when things are kind of hectic and chaotic and have a lot of expectations surrounding them.
Leigh Ann Lindsey (:Yeah, completely. And I think it's that other distinction is how many of the things on my self care list quote unquote are just for my body. And again, it's not that we need to do less of those, although, and we'll probably get into this more. do think sometimes we're keeping things on that list that are no longer aligned for us and we need to refresh the list every now and then, but it's, oh, I've got a list of 10 things on my self care.
Kelly (:Mm-hmm.
Leigh Ann Lindsey (:All 10 of those are for the physical body. Okay, awesome. Keep the 10. What is one thing my soul, my spirit is yearning for? And for me, for me lately, it's been a lot of journaling. But I got like this huge like 11 by 16 sketchbook that's become my new journal. And I got this little like Polaroid photo printer that prints these kind of two by four or whatever, two by three pictures.
And it's been giving myself like an hour of journal time and it's not even journaling to, here's what I have to say or do or write down. It's just, let me just move through this so lazily. I've been recording my dreams a lot more, you know, printing out images from the week that I'm like, Ooh, this was such a beautiful moment this week. Let me print out that image and paste it in my journal. And so it's just, but the point of that being is
Kelly (:Yeah.
Kelly (:Yeah
Leigh Ann Lindsey (:I could still go, well, I should be journaling and I need to write these things down. I need to reflect on these things. And I've taken away any kind of goal. There is no goal to be achieved here. There's no, here's what I should write down. Here's how many pages I should write. Here's what I should be reflecting on. Here's how long I should be in this. It's just what would feel so lovely to sit in and.
Kelly (:Mm.
Kelly (:Right.
Leigh Ann Lindsey (:And late and some days I write half a page, but it's like so lovely to give myself space to just kind of sit there and go through pictures and find one. want to print out and paste it in, write a little reflection on it. so, but that idea of like, as soon as we add some kind of goal or destination point, I think sometimes we've lost it a little bit where it's like, maybe what my soul is yearning for is to color. And our adult brains go, my, for real.
Kelly (:Right.
Thank
Kelly (:Yeah.
Kelly (:You
Leigh Ann Lindsey (:No, I need to sauna. can't And I think part of the point I'm trying to make is those things that seem inherently unproductive might be just as healing as the sauna, as the supplements, as the whatever.
Kelly (:Yeah.
Kelly (:Yeah, I was just gonna say, feel like I need to know, like we need to talk a little bit more about the why behind it too, because I feel for myself, even the holidays aren't even in full swing, but I feel like I've really lost track of my own practices that support me, and because life is just getting steadily more busy and commitments keep popping up.
And I have this sense of like, don't even have time for my self care, my physical self care hardly anymore. So there is no way you are going to get me to like sit down and lazily dream about whatever is coming up for me. like I just get there. Like I'm like, are you freaking kidding me? There's like a laundry list of a thousand things that need done. And I'm sure a lot of people resonate with, with that feeling. probably even more so if you have kids or extended family coming into town or whatnot. So.
Leigh Ann Lindsey (:you
Leigh Ann Lindsey (:Hehehehe
Kelly (:So I'm just curious if you could expand on, you know, like what is the purpose of doing this practice for us, especially during seasons like this.
Leigh Ann Lindsey (:Yeah, I mean, it's kind of in the word, it's soul care. Am I caring for my soul? But if I'm not caring for my soul, that's a huge area of misalignment. Like if we almost think of this as supplements, right? Like I'm supplementing with magnesium because I'm deficient in it. If I become deficient in magnesium, I start to have symptoms. Soul care is like, if my soul becomes malnourished, I start to have symptoms.
Kelly (:Right.
Kelly (:Okay.
Leigh Ann Lindsey (:And that could look like anxiety, that could look like depression, that could look like lethargy, overwhelm. And it's very unglamorous. In some ways, like it's simple. And sometimes we want the fix to be something huge. And that's not to say that, you know, anxiety, depression, all these things don't have multiple contributing factors. But I think maybe the point I'm making is...
Kelly (:Right.
Leigh Ann Lindsey (:A big stone that you're leaving unturned is, I tending my soul? Am I doing anything that nourishes my soul? And if I'm not, that might be why I'm still stuck in blank despite doing all of these other things for my body.
Kelly (:Right.
Kelly (:Great.
Yeah, yeah, I totally resonate with that. I also think that there's a part of me saying if I go sit down with my soul and give it like 30 minutes of real time or set aside some time out of my day to reconnect, it's almost like I'm walking up to the gates of some beautiful park where I'm gonna go meet my soul and we're gonna, you know, have a moment together and there's like a guard at the gate saying, how dare you, you.
Like this will be so unproductive. And like, I just don't think you understand. Like I'm going to stand right here by this gate and shout intrusive thoughts at you the entire time. Being like, you could be doing this or you should be doing that, or this is lazy. Or why do you feel like you need to do this? Because everybody else is walking around you and the world and they're not tending their soul. So like, how do you kind of get behind or beyond like maybe that?
Leigh Ann Lindsey (:Yeah
Kelly (:the truly intrusive thoughts of like, don't need to be doing this, you shouldn't be doing this. That I think kind of floods people when they sit down to really be quiet. If it's not a practice or it's not a muscle they've strengthened when you first sit down, I think it can be very like disorienting. Like I'm doing something wrong, I should not be doing this.
Leigh Ann Lindsey (:Yeah.
Leigh Ann Lindsey (:Yeah, I mean what I hear in that is an inner conflict between two parts. There's one part, maybe your sole part that's like, doing this thing for me will be nourishing and make me feel safer and more restored and energetic and whatever it is. And then there's this other part that's like, no, no, no, no, actually the way to peace is finishing all these things on the checklist. They're both only trying to protect you.
Kelly (:Mm.
Kelly (:Mm-hmm.
Kelly (:Mm-hmm.
Leigh Ann Lindsey (:They're both trying to get you more peace, more safety, more calm, more joy, but they have different ideas of what's going to get us there. And so I think so often we have this inner part that's like, no, no, no, I will feel peace and calm and joy when the to-do list is done. And we don't want to dismiss that outright. I think there are elements of that. I'm, I'm right in that boat with you. I have a podcast, I have a PhD, I have a full client load. Like I have a membership now.
Kelly (:Yeah. Yeah.
Leigh Ann Lindsey (:I'm with you. get so that part with that narrative has been winning a lot lately. And if I look at the track record, okay, is it working? Is rushing to get the whole to-do list done working? Is it bringing me more peace, more calm, more clarity? Hmm, no.
Now there's, there's like a minimum viable product. There are some minimum things that like, if I don't do, I will have more anxiety. And when I do them, I have less anxiety. And the reality is whether you're a business owner or not a mom, there will always be another thing on the to-do list. So at some point we need to, what I, you know, in the question, I think the short answer to what you're asking is we need to reckon with that part that has this limiting narrative of either.
Kelly (:Okay. Sure.
Leigh Ann Lindsey (:When I finish the to-do list, that's what will give me the calm I'm looking for, or I'm not allowed to rest until the to-do list is done. We need to wrestle, not wrestle, but like reckon with those belief systems from that part and go, Hey, I know I see you. You're still, you're still trying to get me joy, calm, peace. And that might not be the only way to get it. In fact, maybe if we have 30 minutes, an hour.
I'm making up random numbers, but 30 minutes of this soul care. And then, you know, I'm more intentional with my time the rest of the day. Maybe I'll still get as much done and I'll, I'll be getting this other nourishment on the other side here. But I think the essence of it is that part has a narrative of what needs to happen to feel peace.
Kelly (:Right. And it's probably the narrative we live in most of the time, right? Like the piece we give ourselves is like, well, I looked at Instagram at like little puppy videos at the end of the day and that was nice. And I laughed a little bit and then I went to bed and you feel like, well, that was a nice thing that I had. But yeah, I think like maybe we are sort of tricking ourselves into thinking that we're doing things.
Leigh Ann Lindsey (:Yeah.
Kelly (:and we are doing things, but sometimes I think we just keep doing things and then we just get into like a cycle of doing things, right? Even on the self-care side. And it starts to feel really uncomfortable when we stop doing things. And I think that's where the intrusive thoughts can start to really come into play. Like, no, no, no, you can't sit here.
Leigh Ann Lindsey (:Yeah.
Kelly (:and just tend to your soul quietly or let your mind wander or just sit here and breathe and see what happens because you do things and that's what we're all doing. So if you're not doing that, then something is wrong. And I think that can send off a lot of alarm signals for people that make it difficult to get into the mindset of like, okay, we're slowing down and we're actually going to tend to our inner world.
Leigh Ann Lindsey (:Yeah, and it's, there's so much nuance here, as you know, I try to bring to everything. It's not, I get it. You you have kids, you're like, actually, even if I wanted to color, like sitting down and my kids are around me and it's not relaxing, it's not stressful, right? We're not saying force it. In fact, what we're saying is like, even just identifying a few things that might be deeply soul nourishing.
Kelly (:Yeah.
Leigh Ann Lindsey (:Is a starting point and maybe you don't work any of those in until six months from now. Even just identifying those can be really powerful, but this is why the whole first week, and this is speaking to something you were saying. So we get to that point of like such peak capacity and such almost like momentum in the routine that when you ask yourself, what would be soul nourishing? You're like, I have no effing idea.
Kelly (:Yeah.
Kelly (:Yeah.
Kelly (:Mm-hmm.
Leigh Ann Lindsey (:And so that's why the whole first week of the sanctuary season is just going back into relationship with the self and almost like meeting that self again and being like, Hey girl, I see you. Let me look at your typical days. Let me dialogue with you about what doesn't feel right or where there's the most stress or tension or this or that. Like that's actually where we have to start.
Kelly (:Right. Right.
Kelly (:Yeah.
Leigh Ann Lindsey (:Because when we've been out of dialogue with ourself in that really intentional way, and in some ways we expect that inner self to just be suddenly super communicative with us. Sometimes we have to like reestablish the relationship and the trust and the safety before that inner part is like, you're actually listening. okay. Well, sure. Like let's talk then.
Kelly (:Yeah.
Kelly (:Yeah, I think people almost forget or assume like I don't really have a soul thing going on for me because they've never established that relation, you know what I mean? The relationship with their inner world. So they kind of just assume like, that may be for some, but it's not for me. I don't have that situation going on like an inner world. No, I'm good. But like to your point.
Leigh Ann Lindsey (:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Kelly (:there are definitely signs, you know, there's always symptoms of the disconnect. And sometimes never are they more apparent than during a really hectic season, like the one that we're heading into. So I think that's a really interesting point for sure.
Leigh Ann Lindsey (:Yeah. And that's not to say that you go back into relationship with yourself. I guide you how to do that in the sanctuary season, but it's not to say that we don't do that. And maybe some of what comes out of that is actually the soul being like, I'd really love a sauna. So that's awesome. It's not to say that there can't be some things that don't also affect the body, but for me, like the essence of how I answer that question is less of, there's no shoulds involved. It's just what
Kelly (:Mm-hmm.
Leigh Ann Lindsey (:would feel so good when I close my eyes and daydream. What would feel so good? And one day it might be baking. It might be like, my God, when I picture that and, not like rushed baking because I wanted to make this and it's like, you know what actually like setting aside four hours on a weekend.
Kelly (:Mm.
Kelly (:Yeah.
Leigh Ann Lindsey (:being able to go to the grocery store at a nice slow pace and then come back and set everything up and put music on. my God, that sounds so fun and so uplifting and so nourishing that that feels so good in my body when I imagine that. Awesome.
Kelly (:Yeah. Yeah.
Kelly (:Yeah, I love that so much because I think that brings me back to almost the topic of happiness that I've been considering quite a bit lately. Because I guess I was listening to a podcast recently, I actually wrote down the quote earlier, so I could we could talk about it. But the quote from the host was joy has to be found today, not tomorrow. If you can't be happy with a coffee, won't be happy with the yacht.
And I think it just reminds me so much of like how we choose to build joy, not just happiness. I know sometimes we think of happiness as kind of fleeting, but those two things need to be found on a random Tuesday in your week.
because if you can't find it on a random Tuesday, chances are that joy and happiness and those things that are byproducts of being deeply connected on both the soul care and the self care side, they're gonna be much harder to find in the longterm if you're constantly chasing like a moving target of what it means to find fulfillment and joy and purpose and all the rest of the things that I think.
human beings are wired to want out of life. And a way to really do that is what you're saying. It's melding the two. It's making sure that while we prioritize self-care, we're also prioritizing the tending of the soul and really connecting the two as much as possible.
Leigh Ann Lindsey (:Yeah. And again, like it really can look like so many things. It might look like, you know, getting, going to church or doing something spiritual or having a conversation with a friend. But the essence of it is like, if I could give you one question, it's can I go into my mind's eye and start daydreaming and just go, what feels so good to that end?
Kelly (:Mm.
Kelly (:Yeah.
Kelly (:Mm.
Leigh Ann Lindsey (:you might come up with a couple things and you're like, well, yeah, it would feel good to do four hours of baking, but I can't.
because my schedule is blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. So then we want to workshop that from two sides. Okay. Maybe I can't immediately work that in. Is there a way I could prioritize that in future? Is this a sign that there are some things I need to remove from my schedule or my responsibility list? And, or if I can't have it in that exact way that I daydreamed it, is there still a way that I could work that in?
Kelly (:Yeah.
Kelly (:Yeah.
Leigh Ann Lindsey (:a little bit that would still be nourishing. But this is where I think everyone's own discernment and like nuance needs to come in. Cause the reality is like, as soon as I go, well, my soul wants to bake. So I'm going to force it and like squeeze it into this one hour. Like again, we've lost the plot.
Kelly (:Thanks
Right, right. Yeah, the purpose is having the joyful moment. The purpose is like bringing some of those deeper truths about who you are up out into your actual life. Because what is the point otherwise if you can't have moments that really light you up or at least bring you calm and peace on the daily? Like, what are we doing? I mean, this is your life. So it's that important.
Leigh Ann Lindsey (:Yeah.
Leigh Ann Lindsey (:Yeah.
Totally, totally. And to your point with that quote about joy, part of the soul care might be allowing ourselves to actually receive some of the goodness that's already here, right? My kids are playing in the living room. I am frantically doing laundry. Do I actually have to do laundry right now? Or can I set a timer for 10 minutes and for 10 minutes just watch them play? Maybe even get down there and play with them.
Kelly (:Yeah.
Kelly (:Yeah.
Kelly (:Yeah.
Kelly (:Yeah.
Leigh Ann Lindsey (:and receive that. it's guys, so much nuance. I know I'm throwing out timelines like four hours. It doesn't have to be that, right? It doesn't have to be that. But to that end, I'll often, trust me, I go into the inner dialogue all the time and my inner self wants a lot of things I can't get for right now. But it's not then to go into this.
Kelly (:Yeah.
Kelly (:Right, yeah, yeah.
Leigh Ann Lindsey (:Ugh, you're either like, A, you're just so needy. Of course you want that. I can't give that to you. Or B, woe is me. I can't get that. So I guess I just have to sit in this sadness and misalignment. It's, I hear that these are some things that would be super nourishing for you. And I'm going to be honest, I can't get those for you right now, but I'm not going to dismiss it. I'm going to do everything within my power to bring that in as soon as I can.
Kelly (:Bye.
Kelly (:Mm-hmm.
Leigh Ann Lindsey (:And that's my commitment to you in herself that I'm not just going to go, well, no, sorry, I'm too busy. It doesn't matter. It can't happen. It's I hear you and I'm going to give your words a ton of weight. And even if I can't immediately make it happen, they hold weight and I'm going to see what's within my power to make that happen for you at some point.
Kelly (:Right.
Kelly (:Yes, yeah.
Kelly (:Right.
Kelly (:Right, because you don't always want to be telling your inner self like, well, I can't give you total peace, but I can get you a coffee. You want to be, to work through these things and to work as much as you can towards that bringing your life into alignment. But I think there's still value in being someone who can say, I had a really nice walk outside today. I saw the sun first thing. I noticed the leaves. I felt the sun on my skin and that really like,
I don't know, just like brought me home to myself. Whatever the case may be, I think there are moments for all of us in our day to day, which are our inner world speaking to us or asking for something moment to moment. if we're not in that dialogue, as you were mentioning, if we're not paying attention to what, or even if we don't have the time and the space, like, I don't want to say like, if we're not paying attention, like you're doing something wrong, we're all doing our best, you know, we're all doing our best. But,
Leigh Ann Lindsey (:No, totally. 100%.
Kelly (:it can get very difficult to notice the things in front of you that are good or the progress you're making or even what the inner voice is calling out for. can be very difficult to slow down long enough to do that.
Leigh Ann Lindsey (:Yeah. I mean, this year I feel like in so many ways I haven't practiced what I preach, which is like, I've probably worked seven days a week for this entire year, not with clients on the weekend, but with my PhD, with launching this membership. And there were probably like three to four months where I was working eight to eight every day in some capacity. And, and on the one hand, the nuance of this is
Kelly (:Great.
Leigh Ann Lindsey (:I'm so proud because there's a past me who wouldn't have been able to lean into that grit. Who would have self sabotaged and go, I know I need to do this, but I'm not going to. So I'm proud of myself for that. And at some point I have to go, and now we need to rein it in a little bit because this isn't sustainable and in herself, like I'm going to make those changes and set those boundaries before you start sending, you know, before you start screaming at me. You know,
Kelly (:Yeah.
Kelly (:Mm.
Kelly (:Right.
Kelly (:Right.
Kelly (:Right, right.
Leigh Ann Lindsey (:So it's just so much, but to that end, like when I was in the peak of those days, would let my soul care looked like I'd be on my morning walk. I'm sprinting through it, which I don't like to do. want to meander. I'm so stressed. head is it's 7 a.m. and my head is already at all the things I have to do for that day. I'm so stressed and I'll get to the part of my walk that overlooks the harbor and I will literally set a timer for two minutes and I will tell myself for two minutes.
Kelly (:Yeah.
Leigh Ann Lindsey (:I'm gonna look out of this harbor, see how many sounds I can hear, the seals, the birds, the water, and just intentionally choose to only focus on that for two minutes.
Kelly (:Yeah.
Leigh Ann Lindsey (:And it is quite nourishing. And then I might've gone right back into whatever it was, but that's the point I'm making is sometimes it's these bigger things. And at the end of the day, we gotta work with what we have and how can we bring that in? But it's the both and. It's ideally, if there are bigger changes and boundaries and shifts that need to be made, I'm working towards those. And as I'm in the midst of what currently is, what...
Kelly (:Yeah.
Leigh Ann Lindsey (:can I bring in no matter how small?
Kelly (:Okay, so shifting gears a little bit to the holidays, how do you feel like listeners can start to bring some of this into this season? What's maybe some of the mindset or I don't know, just little hacks or little ideas for how people who might feel especially overstimulated or overwhelmed or anxious around family gatherings and what's ahead over the next several weeks. What are your thoughts on that?
Leigh Ann Lindsey (:Yeah.
Leigh Ann Lindsey (:Yeah, well, so in the sanctuary season, week one was all about just going back into relationship with ourself so that we could get clearer answers and insight into what would be so nourishing, what is misaligned for me, how do I want this to look differently? And then week two, it was getting more specifically into, hmm, so historically, how does this season look for me?
What are the parts of it that are the most depleting or misaligned or inauthentic? And then moving into, I had a lot of tapping meditations around a fear of making change, a fear of setting boundaries. What am I afraid will happen if I try to change things this year? So to the point we're already making, it's a both and in that when we do that attunement of what is really so depleting for me.
Kelly (:Yeah.
Leigh Ann Lindsey (:There's going to be some things that come up on that list that you're like, you know what? I can pretty easily make that change. And then for all of us, there's probably going to be some things that you're like, I am so afraid of what people will say if I do or don't do this thing. If I don't go to the family gathering, if I don't invite this person. and so we want to, we want to try to workshop it from both sides, but to that end.
Kelly (:great.
Kelly (:Right.
Right.
Leigh Ann Lindsey (:The starting point has to be, and this is kind of what I guide us through, historically what's misaligned, what doesn't fit. Let's daydream, what would my ideal holiday look like? We need to have both of those compare and contrast. Once we have those, we need to move into, okay, if I were to make some of those changes this year, what am I afraid would happen?
We have to witness and acknowledge those fears consciously and unconsciously. And let's see what comes up. I'm afraid my family will judge me. I'm afraid my friend will think I'm selfish. I'm afraid, whatever the fears are, we have to start there. And then we can go into dialogue with those fears. How many of those are true versus how many of those are past truths that actually don't apply to the people in my life anymore.
Kelly (:Right.
Leigh Ann Lindsey (:But we're probably going to have some that land in both. We're probably going to have some fears that surface that we're like, you know what? I did grow up in a family that was super judgmental, maybe even narcissistic. And if I tried to make changes, I got really shamed and put down. But the reality is like my friend circle now is not like that. And when I really think about making some of these changes, they might be bummed, but I know they're actually at the end of the day, going to honor them and love me anyways.
And on the flip side, we might go, no, some of those path past truths are still present truths with some people. And then that changes how we workshop it. It's, I know I'm going to get blamed and shamed if I try to do this. So what's within my power here and what's going to be that balance of like protective and honoring.
Kelly (:Great.
Kelly (:Right.
Leigh Ann Lindsey (:Because we could talk about this from two sides, right? We could just say, no, just set the boundary. Don't do it. That's the best thing for you. But the reality is, if it does cause a massive storm, that might not be the most loving thing.
Kelly (:Yeah.
Kelly (:Yeah, I was just gonna say like, the holidays might not be the time to like tell your family you've had a big issue with them your whole life. Like, you know, like confront some friend for like something that happened in the past. you know, those are conversations for January and they definitely need to be had. You know, for sure, realign your life and then go straight into having some, you know, some boundaries but.
Leigh Ann Lindsey (:Yeah.
Leigh Ann Lindsey (:After you do the Realign Your Life workshop with us.
Kelly (:Yes, the holidays may not be the time and you may need to find, you know, kind of a middle ground.
Leigh Ann Lindsey (:Yeah, this is why the both and the both and is where can I really take some things off my plate, say no to some things and it's no, I'm just not doing that this year. And then when you get to those things that you're like, I really don't want to do that, but it's too late. It's too late to make those changes or, honestly, like
The ripple effect of setting that boundary is going to be such an explosion. I don't want to face that right now. It's going to be too much. Okay. If I still need to do the thing, what is within my power to make that even a little bit better? For example, if there's just a big family gathering that you really don't feel like you can get out of. That's okay. We're still going to go. Maybe the commitment is, but you know, what's within my power to do about this is I don't have to talk to that person. I'm allowed to excuse myself from conversations.
Kelly (:Right.
Leigh Ann Lindsey (:In fact, I'm actually gonna have a little bit of a game plan of, and if that person walks up, I'm gonna go help with dishes or whatever. Or I'm gonna have like, you know, if I need to get out of something, it's I go to the bathroom and I do a five minute Vegas nerve exercise or a tapping meditation. So it's like, if I still have to do the thing, can I re-vision a little bit of how that can look? What other resources can I bring in?
Kelly (:Right.
Kelly (:Yeah. Right.
Leigh Ann Lindsey (:that could make that a little bit more palatable or aligned.
Kelly (:Right, right. Yeah, I think sometimes it's just like telling your friends, like I'm going in, think of me, you know, knowing that you have people to talk through with it this season and being honest about it, I think is a great place to start. Sometimes it's just being really truthful with some safe people. Like, I'm not looking forward to this. I'm concerned, I'm worried. Sometimes just vocalizing.
Leigh Ann Lindsey (:Mm-hmm.
Kelly (:our thoughts and anxieties has a real diminishing effect on how like visceral and important they feel.
Or like you said, maybe it's, you know, setting kind of your own mental boundary. Like you don't need to tell everybody that you're gonna leave before the heavy drinking starts, but you're just gonna make an excuse and go home. And that's okay. You know, you don't have to like validate for yourself every reason you're choosing to make a different decision or for others, right? You can just decide and feel good about that.
Leigh Ann Lindsey (:Yeah.
totally.
Leigh Ann Lindsey (:Yes, yeah, completely. I'm gonna be at the party, looking forward to seeing you there. And I also have a prior commitment at seven, so I'm gonna have to leave then. And maybe you don't have a prior commitment, but we're gonna say we do so we can get out of there. it's.
Kelly (:Yep, yep, simple as that. Yeah, yeah. The commitment is with you and yourself on the sofa. Yeah, exactly.
Leigh Ann Lindsey (:with me and myself and my soul. I actually have a couple friends I need to hang out with and it's me, myself and I.
Kelly (:Yeah, we are going be very busy. Yeah.
Leigh Ann Lindsey (:So it's, it's how can I, because here's the essence of what we're trying to get at. What we don't realize is we have these unconscious narratives of here's all the things I don't love that are going to be miserable and terrible. And there's nothing I can do about it. And that lack of autonomy is what is so. Entrapping and I think harmful to our mind, body and spirit. And so to be able to take a little power back.
Kelly (:Mm.
Leigh Ann Lindsey (:and go, actually, that's not true. I might not have total power to change every aspect of it, but I do have a lot more power than I think to make some changes, bring in some resources, whatever it might be.
Kelly (:Yeah.
Leigh Ann Lindsey (:And you'd be surprised how, you know, how much that does for your inner self. But to that end, it can also be things like, there's going to be a ton of events I have to go to. And so you know what? We're going to hire a maid for the month of December. What the heck? So that I don't have to do laundry. I don't need to do all of that on top of cleaning the house. Or maybe it's, you know what? This year, the kids are a bit older.
Kelly (:man.
Kelly (:Yep. Yep.
Leigh Ann Lindsey (:I think they're allowed to have some more responsibilities of helping with dishes, cleaning up toys, whatever it is. So it's like, in some ways we're talking about big things. Let's also bring it down to what's within my power. And it could be really small things that make big differences.
Kelly (:Mm-hmm.
Kelly (:Right.
Kelly (:Yeah. Yeah.
How else would you advise people to decide what to say no perhaps around at the holidays? Where to set boundaries? Because I think sometimes it can feel like, I don't know, it's all overwhelming and I don't know what to do first. I don't know where I should set a boundary. I don't know which thing.
will cause like a big blow up, like if I set a boundary here, maybe something will happen, but maybe not, and I don't know, and like how would you advise people to kind of prioritize setting some limits or just nourishing themselves through maybe taking different actions?
Leigh Ann Lindsey (:Yeah. I mean, I really do think where you're going to get the most clarity has to start with going back into relationship with myself again. To that end, I think there's probably two ways we could workshop this. It's we can categorize things as here's the list of the things that are the things I hate the most, the things that are the most depleting.
But the reality is some of those things might be things that you don't feel like you're able to get out of. then it's okay. How can we workshop that in a different way rather than it's just off the table? But I mean, in some ways that might be a place to start, right? It's like, let's break it down into two lists. What are the things that are just absolutely the most misaligned and depleting? Let's write those out. List two is what are things that are misaligned and the easiest to change?
Kelly (:Right.
Leigh Ann Lindsey (:And this is where I think our own critical thinking has to come in and go, could I work with a little bit of both of these? If I feel like I'm in enough of a resourced place, maybe I do feel like I can go address some of those bigger things. If I'm not, let's start with the little misalignments that are the easiest to change.
You're having a white elephant gift exchange. That is so exciting. I can't wait to be there. To be honest, I'm too tapped out to bring a gift. I still want to be at the party, but I'm not going to participate in that part.
Kelly (:Yeah, yeah, why do we never think we can do that? I don't know why, just like change the rules a little bit. don't know, because I think sometimes we feel like if I don't show up all the way, meeting everyone's perceived expectations, although no one is thinking about us, then I just can't do it. Then I'm just like crumbling and falling apart rather than reframing it like.
Leigh Ann Lindsey (:Yeah. Completely.
Kelly (:my friends or acquaintances or coworkers want me to be there as much as I want to be there and they, you I want everyone to be there. So it's more important that my presence is felt and that's what I actually have to offer. So I'm going to trust that that's actually just right.
Leigh Ann Lindsey (:Yeah, and honoring it from a couple levels, which is
The people who I think love you well want you to feel nourished. So we're not phrasing this as, my God, your white elephant gift exchange is such a burden to me, but I'm gonna go anyways. Right, it might be, hey best friend, I'm so excited. I just wanna let you know in advance, I am so at capacity this year.
Kelly (:Yeah.
Leigh Ann Lindsey (:I feel myself kind of on that tipping point. So I'm trying to do a few things differently. So I'm not, you know, I don't cross that line. And so I'm so excited to be at your party. Thank you so much for inviting me. And here's one little change I need to make because thinking about getting a gift is just a little too far out of my capacity right now. I think what we need to honor for the people in our life is we've trained them.
And so if we've trained people to expect us to always go above and beyond, it might be a little shocking. It might be a little prickly to the people, even the ones who love us well. And so even honoring that and maybe even we vocalize that in some of our conversations of like, look, I know I typically bring like a really amazing dish to the Christmas potluck.
I'm gonna be totally honest, I am so at capacity this time. Are you gonna be okay if I go buy a really great cake?
if I go buy some fresh baked bread. And I just want to acknowledge that I know you're used to me showing up in a different way. So this might be hard or uncomfortable for you if I don't do things the same as I have every year. And I just want to let you know, like, there's no less love for you. I'm still super excited, but this year I just need to do things a little bit differently to honor my capacity.
Kelly (:Right.
Kelly (:And you're making me think of something else as well. It may be strange for people if you don't have that sort of relationship with them where you vocalize things that way in that style of authenticity or in that ability to be kind of vulnerable and just say like, I'm actually totally cooked this year already. That may feel really foreign and really scary to do for yourself. If you've trained people to see you a certain way as someone who does not experience that. And it may be really difficult to
yourself to even hear yourself saying those words and for someone else to receive them. But I have such a hard time imagining hearing that and looking at someone with anything other than of course, of course.
Leigh Ann Lindsey (:Right, right, right. If someone came to you and said that, would you be like, no, you still need to bake your famous cupcakes.
Kelly (:No, no. In fact, you'd unlocked like a new level of friendship or connection because I would think, man, this is like not our norm and are we going there? That's amazing. Like perhaps that is like the bigger gift sometimes is to
is to allow people to know us as we really are moment to moment, you know, not always like after the fact when we've cleaned everything up and we're like, well, I was totally losing it three weeks ago, but I'm fine now and I'm telling you about it, but to really allow people to see us in the cracking, in the challenge and to let that be okay and to be received.
Leigh Ann Lindsey (:Yeah. Yeah. My family this year, there's, there's a good number of us who go and stay at my parents, sometimes like 16 people, all staying in one home. And we all kind of reflected like, you know what, mainly my mom, right? Like, year didn't feel so good. People weren't cleaning up after themselves. People weren't doing their own dishes. They weren't putting things away. Only like two people were really the ones responsible for meals.
Kelly (:That's a crew.
Leigh Ann Lindsey (:that felt really misaligned, that felt super depleting. We still wanna have everyone over, because there's so much goodness in that, and can we revision what that looks like? So this year we had a whole signup sheet, and every day people are assigned clean up duty and cooking duty. And each day you're assigned something different, and everyone was so on board with that. Because we all want everyone to feel
Kelly (:Amazing.
Leigh Ann Lindsey (:nourished and uplifted and not like, my God, I'm not looking forward to this because it's so exhausting. And I want to honor like, that's not how a lot of families approach it, which is where we go back to, it's not necessarily about changing them. It's what can I do differently of like saying yes or no to whatever. But to that end, think, you know, last couple things to close on is
Kelly (:Sure.
Kelly (:Yeah. Yeah.
Leigh Ann Lindsey (:There's a way to say things that are less aggressive and allow it to be received in a way that it's going to be as, what's the word I'm looking for? Like palatable, palatable and maybe like effective. So, you know, if we're coming in hot and we're like, you just, take advantage of me every year and that's it. I'm setting a boundary this year and you can't do it. Look.
Kelly (:right?
Kelly (:Well, it'll benefit you, right? if you, yeah. Rice, yeah.
Kelly (:Yeah.
Leigh Ann Lindsey (:Don't get me wrong, there might be a time and a place to say that depending on how intense the people are and how much you're being taken advantage of. But for the people who really do have the best intentions, we, you we don't need to come in aggressively like that. But this is why I think it, it could be very disarming to even name and acknowledge verbally that this might be difficult for them. I'm showing up differently this year.
And I just want to validate you that like that might be really jarring for you because I've never done this before. And so I get it. And to be honest, like I'm not going to be able to come to your Christmas party that year. I, I want to honor that you might be really bummed and disappointed. And I actually, I'm sorry about that. And you are still so important to me, but this year I am so at capacity. I'm going to have to pass on that.
Kelly (:Yeah, yeah. Oh, these are such amazing examples and ideas. really feel like this is gonna impact a lot of people, because I think we all have things every year that we're like, come January, I'm never doing that again next year. Next year's the limit. I'm for sure not doing it. Definitely no. And next year rolls around and you're like, yes I am. You so like you have to start somewhere and this could be that.
Leigh Ann Lindsey (:Yeah. Yeah!
Leigh Ann Lindsey (:Yeah. And you might start with the list of like, here's the misaligned things that are the easiest to change this year. But to that end, it's like, we do, we have to start somewhere. And I think what I want to bring us back to is the essence of this is that narrative of here's all the things that suck about the holidays and there's nothing I can do about it. And I really want to challenge you to go, is that true? Or.
Kelly (:Yeah, yeah, beautiful.
Kelly (:Yeah.
Kelly (:Mm.
Leigh Ann Lindsey (:Do I have more power than I think to make some changes big and small? And maybe this year they're just small and then next year I build on it. But that, that totally powerless narrative that we might have. Let's see if we could expand that a little bit this year.
Kelly (:Great. Great.
Kelly (:Yeah, beautiful. I love it.
Leigh Ann Lindsey (:Thank you. That was great. I always, you know, I always get so nervous about these conversations. Like, do I really have anything valuable to share with people? And then we get into it and you pull so much, you pull so much out of me and you add so much yourself. And then at the end, I'm like, Ooh, that was good.
Kelly (:Yes, that was a great conversation.
Kelly (:Yeah, well, I mean, this is a tricky topic. think plenty of people have plenty of thoughts on it and everybody will be grateful for yours. So thank you.
Leigh Ann Lindsey (:I'm so glad. Thank you.
