You're being taught to fear. Christian parenting is difficult enough--but are we doing something to make it even more overwhelming and anxiety-producing?

It was a delight to get to know the lovely Erin Loechner more through this conversation, and we pray it blesses you! Erin has chosen a life of intentionality and prioritizes people over technology. You'll certainly be inspired and challenged by her perspective!

We also take a moment to honor a life of conviction as we grieve the passing of Charlie Kirk.

Did you miss part 1 of our conversation? Listen here.

Find out more about our BRAND NEW videos for COUPLES!!!

Learn more about the Online Entrusted with a Child's Heart Class for Moms: Email stephanie@ewach.com.

Erin's Books:

Chasing Slow

The Opt-Out Family

They're the joyful agains our children.

2

Shout on the swings, the exhausting

agains of cooking and laundry and

3

the difficult agains of discipline.

4

So much of what we do

as mothers is on repeat.

5

So what if we woke up with clarity,

knowing which agains we were called to.

6

And went to bed believing we are

faithful in what matters most.

7

We believe God's word is

the key to untangle from the

8

confusion and overwhelm we feel.

9

Let's look up together to embrace a

motherhood full of freedom and joy.

10

Welcome to the Again podcast, brought

to you by Entrusted Ministries.

11

I'm your host, Stephanie Cock.

12

Before we get to part two of my interview

with the amazing Aaron Lochner, I want

13

to take a moment to honor another life

of conviction, the life of Charlie Kirk.

14

If you're familiar with Charlie

and his passion and hope for the

15

future of of America, then you

know, he relentlessly lived a life.

16

Consistent with biblical and personal

convictions, you don't need to agree

17

with everything that he stood for

politically, to acknowledge that he

18

was our brother in Christ, and that

he was willing to engage in a kind

19

way that elevated logic and reason

to a generation desperate for truth.

20

I realized that I'm about to air an

interview with someone warning about

21

the dangers of social media, but from my

perspective, Charlie Kirk, represented the

22

best of what the internet has to offer.

23

For many, he was a faithful source of

reason and hope, and a guide navigating

24

controversial and challenging days.

25

I don't have many public figures that

I look up to and respect, but Charlie

26

Kirk was someone I hoped that my boys

would be like someday, that all of

27

this homeschooling would add up, and

that my boys, would become young men

28

that are willing to be strong leaders

taking a stand for Jesus Christ.

29

Again, political beliefs aside,

Charlie was a man that lived with

30

the goal of honoring Jesus Christ.

31

So right now, if you're wrestling with

the pain of this world, and perhaps this

32

has triggered a fear in you that at any

moment we could be taken, our children

33

could be taken, our husbands could be

taken, I want to remind you that we could

34

die living lives of mediocrity or even die

dishonoring Christ, or we can live boldly

35

proclaiming his truth and his glory.

36

Charlie will always have my respect

for his own uncompromising courage.

37

Okay.

38

Now let's get to part two of my interview

with former influencer Erin Lochner.

39

She's the author of Chasing

Slow and the Opt-Out Family.

40

Her heart is for families to be more

engaging than technology, social

41

media, and all of the algorithms.

42

In this interview, we talk about how

we are the first generation to do this.

43

And that's why I am so grateful

for her guidance and her critical

44

thinking in evaluating how

are all of these technological

45

changes affecting me, affecting

my parenting, affecting my family.

46

I,

47

I have no desire to parade personal

convictions on this podcast, but I do want

48

to challenge every believer to evaluate.

49

How can I live a life that

glorifies Jesus Christ?

50

Our little ones are watching and

it's my goal that they'll look back

51

and respect the boundary lines that

I drew for myself and for them.

52

But I'm filling the pole in the tug

just as much as you are, so I'm thankful

53

to have Aaron as another source of

wisdom modeling a road less traveled.

54

Here's part two of that interview,

and next week I'll bring you

55

the conclusion of our chat.

56

. Stephanie: Before we get more into the

Optout family, could you explain for

57

our listeners why you are the perfect

person that got us called to share

58

this message and how your journey went

from HGTV and blogging and all of that

59

Erin: Oh yeah, yeah, of course.

60

I mean, message,

61

I.

62

Stephanie: I.

63

Erin: A social media influencer.

64

I had over a million

followers, so this was my job.

65

Job, you know, I just, that's, and

it, and I didn't set out that way.

66

I was an hgtv.com

67

host when they were kind of piloting

the idea of online influence.

68

So it was before social media.

69

And my husband and I used to live in Los

Angeles, and I was at the time doing a

70

lot of magazine writing and home styling

and photographing, you know, different

71

different d design, you know, gallery

shows and curating and things like that.

72

And so it was kind of knee

deep in the design world.

73

And I had a blog again when

um, for a very long time.

74

And so, we were moving to the Midwest

because my husband's father became ill.

75

We were going to renovate a house, and

this is the short story, the long one

76

is in that first book, but, um, we were

gonna be renovating a house, and so we

77

ended up renovating it for hdv com and

we did a two year, 24 episode show.

78

At the time I remember my editor

kind of saying being a public

79

figure and everything, you're gonna

have to like, let people into how,

80

like the behind the scenes, right?

81

Everybody wants to see like,

what did you have for lunch?

82

And, and what's really happening?

83

And I remember being like, that's

such an odd concept because we're

84

not actually, we're not actually

friends and we're like, that there's

85

no context for the way that we live.

86

And um, and still it was like,

okay, all right, so that sounds fun.

87

And so we would show, you

know, snapshots on Instagram

88

there was kind of a shift from

aspiration to inspiration.

89

We kind of recognized that

there was nothing really

90

beautiful about what was fake.

91

And we really swung hard in the

other direction to like, beauty is

92

in the authenticity and in the real.

93

And, and I think we kind of confused,

you know, I'm saying we collectively,

94

anybody that participated in, in social

media culture at that time, whether they

95

were consuming or creating, I think we

sort of thought, well if we want to be

96

vulnerable, we need to be transparent.

97

And I think we really confuse

those terms quite a bit.

98

At least I did, you know, I just

thought if I am gonna be honest then I

99

should share almost the most of what I.

100

I knew in my heart I wasn't

gonna share my kids' faces.

101

I wasn't gonna share their names.

102

I just was deeply protective over the fact

that they didn't sign up for this life.

103

You know, they weren't formed

adults making a career choice here.

104

And I just really wanted

to honor and respect that.

105

And even as a, a, you know, a

full-time influencer, I just kept them.

106

I could, I found that I could talk

about motherhood without talking about

107

mothering those specific children.

108

And so that's where I lived

for a really long time.

109

And then I recognized as my kids aged

that social media was changing in a way,

110

the algorithm was becoming something

different than what it used to be when

111

we all just shared pictures of our lunch

and, you know, the book catalogs kind of,

112

a lot of the why those changes were made

a lot of how those changes were made.

113

But I knew they had been made.

114

And so I knew, gosh, this social media,

how it exists now is a place I would

115

never encourage my children to go.

116

And I was pretty active in

mentoring my friend's kids.

117

We had kids a little later, and so, all

of our friend group, their kids are in

118

high school and they're getting the latest

Snapchat and everything that's happening.

119

So I kind of took on the role as

a tech mentor for a lot of kids.

120

And so I got, I got a lot of a reality,

you know, a lot of what they're actually

121

dealing with when we, you know, we

can look at the statistics all day

122

long and when we see our neighbors

going through that, it's really hard.

123

And so, so I recognize, you know, here

my kids are little and at some point

124

going to ask me the question, well, mom,

why is it that you're on social media

125

and you don't recommend that we do it?

126

And I've never been the kind of

parent that's like, our rules

127

should be, should be different.

128

I mean, yes, there are laws, you know,

driving, I can't let you drive and but

129

yet I gotta get you to theater rehearsal.

130

And so I think I, this didn't seem

like one of those, this did not seem

131

like it, it was past the point of

this isn't safe for kids and more like

132

this isn't recommended for anyone.

133

And I truly believe that.

134

I just did not believe it was a

place to mess around in the way

135

that the current model and the

way that the algorithm was set up.

136

And after all the research that's been

confirmed, and I'm thrilled that the

137

research is out there, that really, it is

skewed in such a harmful way for mental,

138

physical, every part of our health.

139

So long story short, I

deleted all my accounts.

140

I left social media.

141

I wanted to be able to go first and

model something different for my kids.

142

I wanted that when they were going to

choose their own relationship with social

143

media or their own, relationship with a

phone or a personal device of any kind.

144

I wanted them to be able to point

to people in real life that did it

145

differently and had vibrant social lives

and were still fairly normal people.

146

And so, um, that's kind of

the path that I went down.

147

So again, it was a very lived

message, but we did, my husband and

148

I recognized really early on that we

were going to be saying no to personal

149

devices in our home, but we needed

to also say yes to something better.

150

And so that book, that's

what this book became.

151

What do kids actually need?

152

What do they want when they're

picking up their phone?

153

What are they looking for?

154

Do they even want this life or is it

just the life that's offered to them?

155

And, a lot of those answers are in

the book and, um, and it's hopeful.

156

I think there's a lot of hope

for future for our kids, but we

157

definitely chose to just opt out

completely of personal devices.

158

Stephanie: Definitely.

159

That is so neat that you were

able to model it, that the

160

Lord gave you that wisdom.

161

Even as your children are so

long young and that you were

162

able to offer that to other kids.

163

I read recently 12 ways

Your phone is Changing You.

164

And the line in there that got me the most

is he said, we're the first generation

165

to do this, that we can't call our

mothers or our grandmothers or so many

166

of the women sitting in church with us.

167

We can't say, what did you do when your

kids were in high school or middle school?

168

We really are figuring this

out for ourselves and for

169

our kids at the same time.

170

And the pace of all of the changes

is so radical and so extreme that

171

it feels daunting as a parent.

172

And I'm so thankful because I

would've said, if I could describe

173

you in any way, I would've said,

you are very gracious, and that's

174

just the way that you come across.

175

And so when.

176

Someone so gracious writes a

book with such a clear value of,

177

no, really this isn't worth it.

178

I think that's so encouraging to say,

this is really not a gamble you wanna

179

make with your family, and I appreciate

that you took a stand for us all and

180

that you put the research behind it

181

Erin: Thank you.

182

Stephanie: and the way that you do

challenge the current logic and the

183

current fallacies that we're buying into.

184

There was a section that

was so thought provoking.

185

I mean it all was, but there

is this idea that smartphones

186

teach healthy tech boundaries.

187

But you say, what if they actually don't?

188

And is this a valid, perspective?

189

So if we as a nation wanted to teach

our children better gun control, would

190

we allow them access to their own guns?

191

How about alcohol, cars, sex pills?

192

And you go on and you say, we

don't do this with anything else.

193

When we want to teach our kids budgeting,

we don't hand them their own credit card

194

and tell them not to spend it after 9:00

PM and you just go on and you explain

195

how in so many areas, we don't give our

kids a car to teach them how to drive.

196

Well when they're too young for we don't

give them their own medicine cabinets.

197

And that was so thought provoking

for me because I feel like many

198

parents are saying, I want them

to do it well under my own roof

199

because they're gonna do it anyway.

200

So can you talk to us a

little bit more about.

201

Just how illogical that line of reasoning

really turns out to be in most homes.

202

Erin: Yeah, I mean, I think you hit the

nail on the head on that we're the first

203

generation to be experimenting this

and, and I feel like, we don't, whenever

204

we're making any other decision and we're

looking for the research, right, we would

205

never just sign up willingly to a great

experiment where our kids are the ones

206

that are going to read consequences.

207

I think sometimes we do it

as parents, like, let's.

208

You know, we're adults so we can say

like, well let's try this and see

209

if it works, or, you know, whatever.

210

And I'm not at all saying that

we can, that there is a perfect

211

plan or formula for any of this.

212

But it is very interesting, and

I don't think by accident that we

213

do kind of use these very blanket

they're not excuses, they're reasons.

214

They are reasons.

215

But when we actually unpack them

and play them out, we can see

216

some of the fallacies in them.

217

And those reasons were provided from tech.

218

You know, there's a very top down

kind of dissemination of information

219

that was not, it was not an accident.

220

And a lot of those interviews

are in the book with the, I think

221

it's interesting that, that we,

the consumers of technology.

222

This was the biggest pattern that I

noticed when I talked to, I interviewed

223

over 250 resources in and out of

Silicon Valley and decision makers

224

all the way down to just, families.

225

What are you guys seeing?

226

What are you guys noticing?

227

Every consumer of tech was so quick

to say, you know, this is just

228

a tool, it's neutral, you know,

we can use it for good or bad.

229

And then when I would interview the

creator, the creator of the platform,

230

the, CEOs of these social media

networks, the people actually doing

231

the engineering and the program of

creating them, they were so honest that

232

this is not a neutral thing, right?

233

We are a business, we have a business

model, and that business model is

234

to have you spend as much money

as possible so we can keep going.

235

We want your time, we want your

attention, we want your money, we want

236

your companionship, we want your trust.

237

We want influence.

238

And, and so here we are kind of making

excuses for all of these people that

239

that are saying, don't make excuses.

240

We're in this for the money.

241

And that was so eyeopening to me,

and it was eyeopening that, you

242

know, 77% of parents believe that

smartphones do more hard than

243

good, but 98% of teens have them.

244

And I just wanted to know if that could

change and if if there was a way to

245

make, one of our family mottos is be

more engaging than the algorithm, right?

246

Like, can we as parents, um,

make our homes, places that our

247

kids don't want to escape from?

248

And I'm not saying they're not gonna

go through seasons of pushing back and

249

challenging and pushing boundaries.

250

That's all normal.

251

That's fine.

252

But if our baseline is that.

253

We're not going to escape from each other

into separate places in the household.

254

Could that just be kind of a basic

human boundary that we're setting

255

here, that we are not going that sure

once we decide to incorporate screens,

256

let's share those screens and let's

share what happens on those screens.

257

You know, are there just some

like pillars of tech usage that

258

we can all agree on that don't

involve any sort of screen time?

259

Because I don't think that's an accurate

measure of what's healthy and what's not.

260

It's how much time are you

spending with this unhealthy thing?

261

Could we just maybe look a little bit past

that and get creative with some solutions?

262

So I hope that's what the book did.

263

But it was certainly fun to

challenge in my own house.

264

Stephanie: Yes.

265

Yes.

266

And I, I do think that there are

more beautiful experiences, or

267

watching a, a shared family movie

is different than everyone, like you

268

said, on their own device, having, I.

269

A separate experience.

270

It's not family time, and our culture

is already so busy and pushing

271

us so many different directions.

272

We have to be very diligent to

protect the family time that we have.

273

How do you feel the algorithm affects

mothers, specifically the fear

274

aspects of Instagram and algorithms?

275

Erin: Oh gosh.

276

Well, uh, one of the really

jarring examples, I talk about

277

this in the, there's a tech

writer named Fowler who and, um.

278

You know, he kind of already had, he

had thought what he was signing up

279

for was sort of this beautiful baby

scrapbook of moments where he could

280

share it with his friends and family.

281

Even it was if it was a private account,

and what happened was that the feed

282

just kept sending him all of these

images of deformed babies or really

283

tragic accidents happening in his home

and in the homes of other parents.

284

And it just fed this parental fear

and anxiety that's already there.

285

You know, that's what the,

that's what the algorithm does.

286

It's not in inventing a new fear

or a new desire or a new emotion.

287

It's capitalizing repeatedly, you

know, talk about, again, again, again,

288

there is impact in the repetition

and it's feeding that and empowering

289

it, you know, it's making it larger

and making it grow and, and teaching

290

it to hunger for more, more, more.

291

Of whatever that emotion is.

292

And, you know, if we think that

these programmers don't know

293

how to tap into the human spirit

and psyche, we're so very wrong.

294

You know, they're psychology experts.

295

I think what the, what the

algorithm does is simply takes

296

that, that deep rooted fear of am

I not doing enough for my child?

297

And we, they will know, you know,

um, we can now download our data and

298

access exactly what it's feeding us.

299

And it's so interesting how it starts,

as a very wide variety of generally

300

negative, skewed emotion, right?

301

And then it just gets really

hyper-focused on one thing.

302

You know, it's, it's, I have learned, I'm

a machine and I have learned your thing.

303

What is your thing that is

going to get you on this device

304

and keep you on this device?

305

And for a lot of parents,

it is, it is anxiety.

306

It is this fear that if I am not on

top of the news and the latest research

307

of parenting even something silly as

here's a script, here's a parenting

308

script to talk to your children better.

309

If I can keep that parent falling

asleep with the knowledge that they

310

could have spoken to their child better

that day and didn't, and think that

311

they're armed the next day for something

better, well now I'm the source that

312

they're going to for that better thing,

rather than a more healthy source.

313

That does offer context and it does

offer nuance or I don't know even

314

the word of God that is absolutely

inspired and non-changing and useful

315

for, helpful in correcting and rebuking

and you know, some of the like it's.

316

Algorithm wants to be the source.

317

And yet we have a better

source available to us, and so

318

let's look to source instead.

319

Stephanie: Amen.

320

So well said I think for us,

we've never parented without

321

all of this use of technology.

322

I think we don't realize how much

we're being fed the anxious thoughts

323

and they would be there already, but

you're right, they're being capitalized.

324

And I, you even share an example

about how rare it is for a child

325

to drown, and yet how often we're

seeing that come across our screens.

326

And instead of being irrational,

responsible adult, we are being fed a lie

327

that we have to be hypervigilant and then

we're not even enjoying it with them.

328

And I, I think it is robbing so much

of the joy with all of the sphere.

329

Erin: Yes it is.

330

And, I mean, gosh, it, and it, and

it causes us to really forget the

331

tools we already have at our disposal

because we're not practicing those.

332

We're just constantly in this, um,

state of, of reception, in this

333

state of receiving more and consuming

more information that's new to us.

334

And, you know, I

experienced this firsthand.

335

I don't love going to

the pool with my kids.

336

I'm scared and I was a lifeguard.

337

I was a competitive swimmer my whole life.

338

I know how, I know how to

save children from drowning.

339

And yet you see that and, and you

feel it on this visceral level

340

and you think, gosh, if I just

close my eyes for one second.

341

And, i'm not saying that that's not

a reality for people, but when we're

342

showed that constantly or whatever

that thing is for us it could be,

343

you know, fear of strangers or,

um, any kind of child abduction in

344

the neighborhood will keep you from

letting your kid run the neighborhood.

345

Or, um, gosh, I had a friend who talked

about she was shown all of these accidents

346

that were happening in nature, like

just kids in trees and, that was the

347

thing that her feed had all the time.

348

And so she was scared to have

her kids go out in the forest

349

with her even and explore.

350

And I think, gosh, that's so real.

351

That is so real.

352

It is a scary job to be

responsible for someone else.

353

And we have to continually

remind ourselves that

354

we're, our kids aren't ours.

355

We're, we're here to steward them.

356

Their guts kids, and and, you know, we

take care of them the best that we can.

357

We do.

358

And we don't need to fill our mind with

the worst case scenario at all times.

359

It's not going to make us more vigilant.

360

It's gonna make us more scared.

361

I.

362

Stephanie: Absolutely.

363

And you're right, there is such an

element of control and taking on

364

a layer that the Lord never meant

to put on a mother's shoulders.

365

I wanna make a couple really important

announcements first of all, we have

366

long intended to record videos for

couples, and we did it this summer.

367

We created Entrusted with the

child's heart videos for couples.

368

We, of course, have our video series

for moms Entrusted with the child's

369

heart, and those are in depth

comprehensive videos that are phenomenal,

370

but these couples videos serve as

great recaps to the couples book.

371

And guess what?

372

We feel called to make it

completely free for you right now.

373

To watch these videos, all you need to

do is order the couple's book for $20

374

because we want you to have that to

look back on and to read along with it.

375

and we'll give you access

to those streaming codes so

376

you can watch all 17 videos.

377

We pray that this brings mom and

dads together, even if they're

378

tired and overwhelmed, and that

it brings unity in your home.

379

I'll link to our website

in the show notes.

380

I'd also like to announce

an important opportunity.

381

Perhaps you've been listening to the

podcast and thinking, I would love to take

382

and trusted with the child's heart, but

my church hasn't offered it at a time.

383

I can take it.

384

Or perhaps your church hasn't

been able to offer it yet.

385

We want to minister to you, whether you're

near or far, or we're gonna make a way

386

because we're having another online group.

387

This would consist of you watching the

videos on your own time and then coming

388

together with a group of moms from

across the country in an online format.

389

I'll lead it and we'll discuss how

our homes can be transformed for the

390

glory of God through the principles

Betsy teaches in the videos.

391

We will get real, we'll go deep,

we'll talk practical strategies, and

392

it'll all be centered on scripture.

393

If you're interested in that

option, let's talk details.

394

Email me@stephanieatewok.com.

395

That's S-T-E-P-H-A-N-I e@ewh.com.

396

I'm looking forward to meeting you,

397

we know you're busy, mama.

398

So we are truly grateful you joined us for

this episode of again, if you're looking

399

for more information about building your

home on the foundation of Jesus Christ,

400

head to www dot Entrusted Ministries

dot com to learn more about our study

401

for moms Entrusted with a child's Heart.

402

This scripture saturated study

has blessed families around the

403

world, and we want it for you too.

404

Before you go, I want to pray this

benediction over you from Second

405

Thessalonians one 11 through 12.

406

We're rooting for you to this end.

407

We always pray for you that our God

may make you worthy of his calling

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and fulfill every resolve for good.

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And every work of faith by his power

so that the name of our Lord Jesus

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may be glorified in you and you

and Him according to the grace of

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our God and the Lord Jesus Christ.

412

Amen.

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Until we meet again.