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Episode 383 - Birthrights
9th May 2023 • The Iron Fist and the Velvet Glove • The Iron Fist and the Velvet Glove
00:00:00 01:02:04

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In this episode we discuss:

(00:00) 383

(00:44) Intro

(01:43) Coronation Thoughts

(20:55) The Federal Budget

(32:59) Alan Joyce

(40:02) Scomo's New Job

(46:25) Bernie Sanders 100% Tax

(54:45) Average Incomes and Wealth

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Transcripts

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Suburban Eastern Australia.

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An environment that has over time evolved some extraordinarily

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unique groups of Homo Sapians.

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But today we observe a small tribe akin to a group of mere cats that gather together

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a top, a small mound to watch question and discuss the current events of their city,

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their country, and their world at large.

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Let's listen keenly and observe this group fondly known as the

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Iron Fist and the Velvet Glove.

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Yes.

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Here we are, dear listener, sitting at the top of my looking

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around observing the world.

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I'm Trevor a k a, the Iron Fist with me as always.

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Scott, the Velvet Glove calling in from regional Queensland.

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How are you, Scott?

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Good, thanks, Trevor.

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Goodday.

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Joe Goodday listeners.

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How are you all?

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We're all good.

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And Joe, the tech guy, that's back again.

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Good on you, Joe.

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Evening all.

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Mm.

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So dear you listener, what have we got on the agenda?

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Mish mash mishmash of different topics.

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We'll talk about the coronation.

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That was interesting.

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We've got oh, we've got budget tonight.

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We'll talk a bit about that and a little bit about Alan Joyce and Qantas and

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Morrison leaving to join potentially some sort of foreign company as a, as

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a policy expert and no doubt as some sort of, oh, what do they call 'em?

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Lobbyist a few bits and pieces like that.

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So, yeah.

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Scott, Coronation.

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Yes.

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You didn't actually, you watched it, but you No, I watched between watching

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everything else, you know, as I got bored with the other television, that

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sort of stuff, I flicked back over.

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Just have a look at it.

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Yeah.

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You know, I'm sure if I was British, like my friend over in Wales, you know,

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she went down to London to, I don't know, she didn't camp out or anything

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like that, but she rocks was on the side of the street and no, she didn't throw

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rocks at him or anything like that.

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She did go over there and have a look at it, but that was about

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as far as she got, I believe.

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Yeah.

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You know, if I was British, I'd probably have a very different opinion.

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But you've been a Australian, you've been a member of the Republican Yeah.

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Movement for a long time.

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Ever since I've known you, it's one of your key things is

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secularism and the Republic.

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Yeah, it is.

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You know, I was very much a

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Quiet Republican for a long time until Tony Abbot knighted Prince

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Ed principal bill the Greek.

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And that was the straw that broke the camel's back.

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And I thought to myself, fuck you buddy.

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I joined the a m that night and you know, that was it.

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And I was Well, I reckon, I reckon the coronation is, is is

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good for your causes, our cause.

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Cause obviously I'm in favor of a Republican Joe.

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I'm sure you are as well.

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I, I'm waiting for it to hear a good model that is better than what we've got.

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Oh, okay.

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Alright, well get that.

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Well, I think that the, the latest model that has been put forward by

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the Republican movement is a dam site better than what we've currently got.

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And it's a hell of a lot better than what was put up and failed in 1999.

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Yes.

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So this the model where they say, well, you want a republic

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and we'll work out later.

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What, what type of republic in terms of whether we elect the president

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or whether Parliament elect the, the thing is we will, we will elect

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the president, but the nominations are gonna come from Parliament.

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So they, they're gonna come from, there'll be a nomination from each state government

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and the federal government will be able to nominate a presidential nominee.

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Ah.

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Then after that we're gonna vote on it.

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Ahs, the president's, the current gonna do, sorry, what's

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the president do everything.

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The current government General does.

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General does, yeah.

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Okay.

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So political figurehead with the ability to do the royal ascent and

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dissolve parliament and nothing.

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Yes, exactly.

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Okay.

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So it's the official position.

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Is it of the Republican movement at the moment?

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Yes it is.

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Okay, I didn't know that.

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Right.

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Okay.

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Yeah, that's the official position because they actually

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listened to, you know, there was.

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The last president of the Republican movement whose name escapes me, he's a

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journalist and all that sort of thing.

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Can't think what his name is.

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Ah, Fitzsimmons.

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He was, yes, Fitzsimmons.

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He was, he was at a thing one night and he said that, that he said that

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he was approached by a bloke who said that he said that the only way

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you're ever gonna get this across is if you give us the final say on it.

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Hmm.

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And I thought to myself, yep.

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He's hit the nail right on the head there.

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And that's where they went away and they thought about it and that sort of stuff.

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So they have come up with a compromised model where parliament

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will be able to come up with the nominations and then these people

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will be voted on by the public.

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Yeah.

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Well, I reckon the coronation ceremony could been a, a boost for the Republican.

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Absolutely.

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Because it was a joke.

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Mm-hmm.

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You know, and that, that thing where they asked us all to swear allegiance

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to him and all that sort of shit.

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I mean, good lord.

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No.

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Yes.

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I was not gonna swear allegiance to him.

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You know, he should have been swearing allegiance to us, but he didn't.

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Yes, apparently.

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Yeah.

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There was this okay, I was listening to this this guy on Twitter who was a

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broadcaster and sort of friend of Prince Charles who's saying that that that call

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by the archbishop where he was in the days leading up to the coronation, encouraging

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people to stand up and, and verbally announce their allegiance the way he did.

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Yeah.

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That that was probably not what Charles wanted.

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Cuz he said that Charles isn't the sort of guy who wants people paying

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homage to him where they're filthy.

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Yes.

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But that's not his style.

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And actually I've got a bit of a clip here.

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So let me, let me play a little bit of this.

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I won't play the whole thing, but this will give you a bit of a feel for it.

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I can think of nothing that he would find more abhorrent.

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He's never wanted to be revered.

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He's never wanted, so far as I know, to have anyone pay homage to him,

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except in mock terms as a joke.

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He, he wants, I think, to feel that people will share in the event.

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And I don't quite know how this might have happened.

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I, I, I don't know for certain, but it would seem to me that this was a, a,

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an initiative by the archbishop who, as we know is strongly evangelical, who

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thought it would be a good thing to give everyone a chance to pay that homage.

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I thought that was interesting.

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Say when you said it was a friend, I thought Dim will be, because he's been

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interviewed in the past and he was asked what he thought of Charles as a

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possible king and said, look, whilst he's the air of the throne, he can.

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Be a little divisive.

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He can make these grand pronouncements.

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He realizes that when he's a monarchy has to rule for the whole

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kingdom and he will settle down.

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Right.

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So it's interesting that it's dimbleby again.

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Mm-hmm.

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Who he's respected actually in the uk.

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There you go.

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So, so the interesting part about that is he's laying the blame with the

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archbishop who he then described as everyone knows, he is an evangelical.

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So that's the thing that struck me about this ceremony was how religious it was.

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Yeah.

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And and that really, you know, the, the church considered itself

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in charge of this coronation.

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Mm-hmm.

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Because it was a church service ceremony, the whole Yeah.

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Purpose of it.

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So, So yeah, that all makes sense, that probably Charles didn't

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want that sort of thing and this idiot Archbishop mouths off.

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Cause he's in charge of the rock show and trying, you know, the Archbishop

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still have 12 seats in the house Lords.

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Well, there you go.

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Yes.

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Why not?

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I mean, yeah, why not?

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There was a, it was described on Twitter that only the, you know, to

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go outside of the United Kingdom to find parliamentary representatives

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who are also of a religious faith.

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You have to find you have to go to the Repub, Islamic Republic of Iran.

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Mm-hmm.

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You know, so, Brahman in the Hello Brahman in the chat room.

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Hello Anne and John and noisy Andrew and Don who are there.

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And Broman makes the point that I was just about to get to that the coronation

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was actually a religious service as it's about the Monarch being anointed by God.

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And there was an article in the.

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ABC by a guy called Ian Bradley who said that God saved the king, the

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religious significance of the coronation and its symbolism Coronations.

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Point to the sacred nature of the United Kingdom Monarchy Act with religious

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symbolism and imagery, they exude mystery, bind together church and state

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through the person of the monarch, and clearly proclaim the derivation

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of all power and authority from God and the Christian basis on which

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government is exercise and justice.

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Administered Coronations are religious services rather than

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constitutional ceremonies.

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The coronation on the 6th of May does not make Charles the third king that happened

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on the death of his mother, and his reign was formally inaugurated at the session.

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Council held Two days later at his coronation, he'll be anointed,

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consecrated, and blessed as well as crown.

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And when you, you know, the bits I saw of the ceremony, that was certainly the case.

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It was a highly religious ceremony and it was an anointing

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of the monarch by the church.

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Yeah.

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Which was really quite repulsive Of course.

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And and surely would help the Republican cause as people look at it and go, really?

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Yeah, exactly.

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And that is, that is the, that was the overwhelming opinion that

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was coming, particularly from the younger people within the,

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within the Republican movement.

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You could see they were just shaking their head and you know exactly what you said.

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Really.

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It's interesting cuz in the past he's espoused Islam.

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Yeah, I know.

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Ah okay.

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He wants to be the defender of all faiths, not just the Yeah.

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The faith.

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So, so I, I think I can understand that he wouldn't be very happy

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that a single faith word.

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Take over that even though, you know, he is the head of the Anglican church.

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Mm-hmm.

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Yes.

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So, so he's bound by a lot of things like everybody else.

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Some of the stuff I was sort of texting a friend and just sort of

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poo-pooing the whole ceremony there.

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At one stage they kept handing him these relics and trinkets and pieces and pieces.

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It's the holy hand grenade of Antioch.

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Everything, but that's right.

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Oh, no.

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So there's been lots of memes going around on Twitter with a

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holy hand grenade of Antioch.

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Yes.

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And then somebody wandering a, a woman wandering down with a large sword and

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going, women one waving swords around.

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There's no basis of government.

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So there's been lots of Monty Python quotes.

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There has been lots of Monty Python.

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I'm gonna do one in a minute as well.

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Right.

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But things that I, you know, like in a sort of a 10 minute span that I

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was, what maybe it was a bit longer.

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He was handed a sword.

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A plate, some gloves, a cloak, some cuffs, an orb, a ring, and a septa.

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And all these things were seren rosaly handed to him and the

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commentator was giving a bit of a blurb on what each item was, and

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then they were taken away, you know?

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Yeah.

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It was all part of the wackiness of the whole show.

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Really in terms of entertainment, I much preferred the Queen's

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funeral, I have to say.

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That sounds,

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it's one of those I didn't see.

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I'm Greek would've said that.

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Sorry.

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Said.

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I'm sure Phil, the Greek would've made some comment.

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I didn't see the Queen's funeral, cause I just thought to

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myself, I don't really need to.

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You know?

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Yeah.

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You know, she was an exceptional monarch and all that sort of

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stuff, but she's dead now.

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So I just think to myself, it's time for us to move on.

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Mm-hmm.

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You know, you know, she was a very good monarch.

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There's no doubt about that, but it's time for us to move on, you know?

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Yeah.

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I still think it should've gone straight to Will child of Saint Diana.

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Mm-hmm.

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Why, why was the queen such a good monarch?

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Well, because of her successful breeding of, of a wonderful family.

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No, not because of their family or anything like that.

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Her, her family is pretty much nuts.

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Nuts, yes.

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I don't think there's any doubt about that, but she was,

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don't blame her for her kids.

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They were just, yeah, there's that, but she, she did actually

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hold the thing together very well.

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But I just think to myself, it's time for us to move on now.

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You know?

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And I just think to, if you actually really want an opinion,

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I can't really give you one.

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It's just a vibe of the thing.

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I think she, she was, she was very good monarch and that sort of thing, but when

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she, I'll tell you her best comment.

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What's that?

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After the financial crisis in 2008.

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Yeah.

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She, she said to the, to different people, why didn't any of you

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people see this happening?

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Like, isn't, wasn't that somebody's job to see this coming?

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Why didn't any of you economists see this about to happen later?

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Really?

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Yeah.

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So she was sort of, that was her best comment, I think looking at

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the financial crisis and saying, somebody's stuffed up here.

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Somebody should have seen this.

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Something as large as this.

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What were you guys doing?

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Well there's that, and you know, she was certainly right about the

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Icelandic banks and that type of thing.

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Mm.

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You know, Joe, what can you tell me, Joe, about Kelts, Celtic people?

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Kelts they were the original inhabitants of Britain.

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Right.

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And they were pushed out by the angles and saxes who invaded Yep.

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And then by the Normans.

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Yep.

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And so they are effectively the people of Scotland, Ireland, and

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Brittany in France, right, yep.

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And Cornwall.

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Right.

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And a strong affiliation with Ireland, sort of the Irish, or, well, so the, the

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Cals are the British people, some of whom ended up in Ireland, but also Scotland

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and also down into Britain in France.

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Right.

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Is there any particular reason why they would be anti monarchy?

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The Irish would be Yes.

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Yes.

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And Scottish again.

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Right, because they're an English monarch.

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Yes.

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Okay.

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They are, well, that's not exactly true because James, the first of Scotland

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was appointed to become the e, the e English king by Elizabeth I on, she died.

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She died, and yeah, she died.

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She left, she left him the the role, the role of King.

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So did you leave it to him or was he just next in line?

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I don't know about that, but it's one of the things that was very amusing at the

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time because they said that, you know, for centuries it had a, a, an English crown

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presiding over a Scottish parliament.

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Now we've got a Scottish King presiding over an English parliament, so,

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you know, so well anyway, yes, go on at, at a Celtic football match.

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Mm-hmm.

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This is what they had to say about the coronation.

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In case it wasn't absolutely clear, they were singing, you can

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shove your coronation up your ass.

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So with full stadium full of people giving opinion, my used

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the rock rising all over again.

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Mm.

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Brahman.

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Another interesting factoid I discovered about Coronations is that

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among the European monarchies, the UK is the only one that holds such

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a service to crown the Monarch.

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This is because the other European monarchs are not the heads of

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their established churches, eg.

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When Queen Marth of Denmark became queen, she was proclaimed monarch

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by the Danish Prime Minister.

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There was no coronation.

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There we go.

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They missed out on all that royal tourism.

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As a result perhaps.

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Alright.

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And what else did I have here?

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One other thing.

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Oh, just last week of course I was banging on about the book, the book

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review, not so black and white.

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And as you know, dear listener, for me it was all about class.

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That's the thing that we should be concentrating on.

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And and here's a mixed mixing up of coronation and class in one short clip.

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Well, we all are, we are all Britains.

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And I am Your king did.

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No, we had a king.

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I thought we were an autonomous collective.

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You are fooling yourself.

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We're living in a dictatorship of self-perpetuating autocracy.

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And which the working classes, oh, there you go.

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Bringing class into it again, what it's all about.

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If only people would.

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I feel like one of those peasants in the mud just bringing up class.

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Yeah.

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All the time.

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Banging on about it.

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There you go.

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What about class?

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I thought that was very interesting what you're actually

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saying in that book review now.

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I didn't realize that.

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I knew that class was a big issue for Martin Luther King.

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I didn't realize it was such a big issue for Malcolm X.

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Mm-hmm.

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So it's one of those things.

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It's just, I've gotta go back and read more about it.

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Yeah, it was interesting.

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So, yeah, very interesting.

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I think people enjoyed that one.

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Lots of big ideas in that episode.

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Perhaps not so many big ideas in this episode, but as we left our own devices,

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no, we're just bagging the monarchy now.

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Right now.

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Yeah, that's right.

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Let me see, what else do we have here?

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So that was that.

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Ah, just the only other thing is I saw this tweet by solo monk, which

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was We're not interested in an old man who has waited his whole life

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to have a crown put on his head.

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Cause that is his apparent birthright.

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Nor do we wanna swear any sort of allegiance.

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Utter anachronistic anachronistic.

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Have I pronounced?

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Thank you.

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Anachronistic nonsense.

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That is no place in modern Australia.

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Speaking of birthright, anyone wanna talk about the voice?

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I mean, what is birthright?

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But I was, I was watching the Maryam Margolese almost on Australian, and

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she goes and interviews Lydia Thorpe.

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Right?

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She's Professor Sprout from the Harry Potter, English actress, Jewish lesbian

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who became an Australian citizen back in Julie Gillard's Day, right?

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And has decided she's going to do a docu-series driving

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around Australia in a Campa van.

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Finding out what it means to be an Australian and, and talking

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to Lydia Thorpe, and yeah.

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The more I see of that woman, less I am.

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Yes, yes.

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She's, she looks a little unhinged, doesn't she?

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Yes.

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Just, just a birthright is the concept of things being due to a person

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upon or by a fact of their birth or due to the order of their birth.

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These may include rights of citizenship based on the place where the person

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was born or the citizenship of their parents and inheritance rights to

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property owned by parents or others.

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Strict strikes me that lot of the voice argument relies on birthright

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concepts as being legitimate and the very people who would, who poo the

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monarchy for its Promotion of birthright.

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Don't recognize that there's a birthright issue there.

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So do they or do they just poopoo it because it was a colonial system?

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Now all sorts of reasons, but certainly I can see that there's an issue

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there, but I seem to be alone on that.

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Scott, yes.

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Budget tonight as we speak.

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Perhaps the treasurer is making some comment about how the figures are

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adding up for the government's budget.

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Probably back in black, meaning the government will collect more than it

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spends at least this year and probably will not reverse the stage three tax cuts.

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Is, is this all it seems to be.

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Somebody in the chat room, if it turns out that they've actually reversed the,

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the stage three tax cuts, let us know.

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But it seems highly unlikely that that was gonna happen.

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It does seem highly unlikely.

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It's it's very disappointing that they appear to be doing that,

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but it does seem highly unlikely that they're going to reverse it.

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I honestly believe that they would actually, at the very

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least, substantially change them.

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But apparently not, because they must be, they must be

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seeing exactly what we've seen.

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Like, you know, a couple of weeks ago that took my breath away

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where it was all in that one, one.

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Graph, which showed that people under $65,000 a year were gonna go

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backwards and anyone over $120,000 a year was gonna go forward.

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And then people earning $200,000 a year, were gonna go forward by $9,000 a year.

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Yeah.

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You know, that was really crook.

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I mean, we changed parties in this country, but we get

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mostly the same policies.

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But with labor, you get less interest in bedroom activities.

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Mm.

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Shit.

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Shit and shit.

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Light parties aren't they really like this.

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Yeah, I know what you're saying.

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But

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it's true.

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Couldn't I couldn't vote for the greens, you know, because you'd end up with

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a, because they say yes to the voice.

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No, not because they say yes to the voice.

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Because I'm still on the vo.

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I'm still Yes.

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On the voice, but they're just, Lunatics, like, you know, they

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actually, they actually want to do away with coal and gas immediately.

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Now that is crazy, you know, because you just go out to

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Gladstone, that sort of stuff.

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You can see all the, the ships that are lined up, ready to take our coal

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over back to their own countries.

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If they were to do that, then they would darken a significant portion

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of humanity was, was there, was there a policy to close coal mines and no,

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it, it straight away to do away with.

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It was to do away with any new coal and gas mines.

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Well then it's different to what you just said, Scott.

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Okay, fair enough.

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I a that's not okay.

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They're gonna do away with new coal and gas mines.

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Mm.

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Which I think is crazy.

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Didn't they Possibly not, not so much for coal, but for gas, yes.

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I do believe that we should still be, we should still be fracking and grabbing

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that outta the ground and that sort of stuff because it does produce electricity

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at a lower carbon price than slightly.

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Coal is, it's not lunacy though, Scott, that is sort of lunacy because

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when you do the sums, what you can generate from renewables Yeah.

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Is, I agree.

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Quite feasible.

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Renew, renew renewable supply grid is very feasible.

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Yes.

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And I agree wholeheartedly with that.

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I agree that we should be we should be we should be doing everything we can

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with renewables here in this country and that's why I was very pleased that

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we are building the, I think it'll be the second largest pumped hydro dam

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in Australia out here in Queensland.

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What what we need to do is have another government review into

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nuclear power, spend huge amounts of money to private consultancy firm.

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30 years down the track, still be wedded to coal and gas because

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we've actually not done anything.

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Hmm.

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Yeah.

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I believe that's the liberal way, isn't it?

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You can't say the greens were lunatics.

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I they just, cuz they weren't saying let's close every coal

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mine and gasfield tomorrow.

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No, but what they were saying, what they were saying was that

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there shouldn't be any new ones.

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Well, and that's not, that's not lunacy.

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Scott's not, they didn't say was, Hey, regional Australia,

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here's our plan for the future.

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All of these current mining jobs that your towns are reliant on, this is

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what we're gonna replace them with.

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Here's the money we're gonna invest in retraining you.

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Here's all the infrastructure we're gonna build to replace these colon gas mines.

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They might've, I don't know.

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I didn't, they didn't place enough and that was the problem.

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I, I think people were going, well, you're just gonna kill my way of life and you

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haven't offered me anything in return.

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Mm-hmm.

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Which is precisely why Bob Brown's caravan of lunacy up to

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the Carac coal mine was crazy.

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You know, because they went out there and basically spat in their face and

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said, well, you know, you gotta stop digging this stuff outta the ground.

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Yeah.

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That was a basket of deplorables moment.

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Mm-hmm.

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For sure.

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It was.

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I think the greens avoided that in the last election, last federal election.

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Well, they, because that was a, yeah, so that was, and, and now had,

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there have been actual, had, there have been teal independence and that

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sort of stuff running up here, then I don't think they would've picked

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up those three Brisbane seats.

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They would've gone to the Teals.

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Mm-hmm.

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Yeah.

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Anyway, it, you know, this budget, you know, there'll be

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some tinkering at the edges.

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It looks like, you know, there'll be money thrown at people for help

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them with their electricity bills and other bits and pieces and, you

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know, you'll sort of, yeah, we'll, a billion dollars here and a billion

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dollars there, but nothing fundamental.

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We, we'll pay electricity money to the providers.

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Mm-hmm.

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It will carry on making huge profits but we won't actually tax them anymore.

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Yeah.

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And they'll tinker with things like rent assistance rather than,

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rather than actually dealing with the issue of why mm-hmm.

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Property prices are so high and rents are so high, it will be sort

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of throwing a bit of lose change at renters without addressing the issue.

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So, yeah, I, I went back and looked at that report that you remember there

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was the economist who came on, was talking about property development

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that I had, that I interviewed.

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Yeah, I think so.

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Yeah.

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Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

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Prosper Carl.

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Yeah.

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Yes.

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Yep.

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And, and they were talking about Springfield Lakes or Springfield.

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Mm-hmm.

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Which is, you know, a suburb of Western Brisbane out towards zip switch.

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Yep.

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And it's been on the go for 20 years and if it carries on being developed

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at the same rate, it's gonna be another 43 years before they've sold off

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all the land that they have planning permission to, to develop, but they

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have no incentive to, to develop it cuz then the property prices drop.

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Correct.

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You drip feed.

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Yes.

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Rather than, yeah, that was the whole point of his report.

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Yeah.

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So there's all sorts of issues like that where you should use it or lose it.

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If you've received an approval, then do it within a certain period

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of time, otherwise it's gone.

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Let's talk about taxing unoccupied properties.

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Yes.

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So you pay higher rates if your property is unoccupied.

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Yep.

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Yep.

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The other one would be taxing higher if you, if you're renting it on short-term.

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Airbnb rates is pro probably a good idea as well because people are just pulling

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properties, say on the Gold Coast out of what would've been permanent rentals and

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putting it just on the Airbnb system.

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And that's just another reason why there isn't properties around for families or

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anybody to to rent on a permanent basis.

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Cause it's all converted to Airbnb.

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So, different tax rates could do the job, but there'll be nothing adventurous

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or meaningful in the budget like that.

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It'll just be a bit of throwing of loose change to say they've tried to do

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something so they've got a talking point.

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But pretty small beans, I'd say.

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So.

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So in the chat room, Anne said that I reckon they'll take reversing the stage

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three tax cuts to the next election.

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I think you're probably right, Anne.

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So, and John agrees.

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So just a bit more.

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Well, yeah, they, they actually, one would hope they actually go to an

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election after tonight and they actually says, look, we don't like these tasks.

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We've gotta, we've gotta actually, because we went to the last election, agreeing

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with them and that sort of stuff, we've got no choice but to go back to the people

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and we've got to reverse these stage three tax cuts, so we're gonna have an election.

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Mm-hmm.

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They win.

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I think it's a non-core promise.

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Well, I, we can change it's, it was a non-core, it was a non-core promise, so

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I think that they could get rid of it.

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Exactly.

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Yeah.

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It's one of those things that Albanese has tried to paint himself

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as a trustworthy politician.

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Mm.

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So I don't think he's actually going to reverse them right now, but mm-hmm.

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I understand where you're coming from, Anne and John, but going to an election

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promising an increase in income tax.

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Yeah, it's, it's a hell harder.

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It's a hell bit harder to actually promise an increase in income tax than it is to

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walk away from reversing one right now.

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Sorry.

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Trevor, what were you gonna say?

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Well, if they've got any salesmanship, it should be easy.

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It should be easy to say to the majority of Australians.

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Yeah.

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Good point.

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Here's an idea, why don't the town get outta politics?

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Honestly, if you can sell the town, pay their share, we

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are gonna increase their tax.

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Yep.

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And pay for those people who are poorer.

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If, if you are a Labor party person and you are in power and you

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can't, you can't go to an election with that cuz you're too scared.

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Just give in.

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So I think you're right Anne.

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I'll do it then.

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But yeah, so, guy Rundel writing in Crikey talked about the labor rusted

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s and he says the political stakes for labor were high in the lead up

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to 2022, but the existential stakes for the leadership were higher.

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Still loss in 2022 would've made their lives not merely failures, but a bit of

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a cosmic joke goes on to say that they were so shit scared of losing in 2022,

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that they were just prepared to sell their souls on anything just to get power.

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He's probably right cause I think he's right there.

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Yeah.

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They were sh they were thinking if we have to spend another three years

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in opposition and lose this election, Life's not worth living anymore.

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I think he's right.

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I dunno.

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Ru Rupert's gotta die at some stage.

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Yeah.

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So he said, no, no, no.

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Better to wage a sustained double level campaign against your own

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membership, convince them that you are faking a total rightward shift to

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appease prosperous outer bourbon voters and News Corps when you're actually

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making a total rightward shift and your members are the useful idiots.

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So, yeah, that was good.

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It's yeah, tell a membership you're faking and move to the right to please

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the the outer bourbon voters, but you're actually making a right would shift.

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And it's the members who are the useful idiots.

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And he's saying, so this has transpired and the rusted ons of the first order now

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face a choice that is barely a choice.

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Either support the party or Goes on.

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So, yeah, so that was guy run in Crikey and yeah, we'll see

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what happens in the budget now.

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Scott.

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Mm-hmm.

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Alan Joyce.

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Yes.

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So pretty Lee that he's leaving, he is leaving Qantas and Alice have estimated

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dear list now that Qantas will be spending 12.3 billion on upgrading its fleet with

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choice, having not paid for one single new aircraft in his 15 years as c e o.

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Can you believe it?

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He never paid for a new aircraft in 15 years.

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That's bad.

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Yeah, I know.

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And why would you, when you're set up with a remuneration structure, Where you

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just gouged the shit out of a company, maximize profits without concern for

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the long-term viability of the company.

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Just meet short-term KPIs and and that's what he's done.

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Joyce will walk away after 15 years, he will have gathered

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125 million in 15 years.

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That's 10,000 a year.

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So come on.

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It's not that much under just a touch.

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Under 10 million a year?

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Yes, a year.

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Now, you know, that's around about 10% of the 12.3 billion that he

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should have spent upgrading his fleet.

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Why would he do that?

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Why would he?

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Because it's, it's one of those things.

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I remember when I was at university, there was a, there was a simple question

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that was put to us in a management accounting to do you your share price?

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No.

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With the betterment of the company, or do you keep it high so you get better?

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No, just listen.

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The, the exam question was, the chickens come home to roost, discuss.

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Now what you've gotta do with that is you've gotta discuss the

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problems with delaying maintenance and all that type of thing.

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Now, why the chickens come home to roost is if you don't maintain anything, it goes

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down and down and down ends up failing.

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Hmm.

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So that's where they were saying that this sort of short term nonsense

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of remunerating people based on their, on the company profit leads

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to disastrous decisions like this.

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Alan Joints is walking away with $125 million.

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He's got 12.3 billion worth of worth of jets to pay for once he's gone.

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So why was this allowed to happen by the other members of the leadership?

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God, no, the chairman and the, I don't know.

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I don't know.

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Well see.

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What you do in the UK is what you do is you take a monopoly, you run us into

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the ground, and then you turn around to the government and you say, it'd be

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a shame if anything happens to that.

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Mm-hmm.

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And then you get money from the government to bail you out for the

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infrastructure that you didn't invest in.

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Mm-hmm.

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This article that will be in the show notes from Crikey just says

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at the end Joyce brought his fellow directors ever increasing board

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payments while the ages of other employees were systematically slashed.

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So you searched my back and I so would not surprise if the other senior

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executives in the company were very well remunerated during his tenure.

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And it's like, well, The company might be going to shit, but hey,

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with this guy here, my packet, pay packet's gone skyrocketing.

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Selfish motives personal pay packet, overriding good of the company.

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Too bad for the shareholders in the long term.

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Mm-hmm.

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Shareholders in the short term may be okay, but so shortsighted.

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So he was incredibly shortsighted is a replacement of Vanessa Hudson.

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Yeah.

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She's been with the company for 28 years, so she'd hardly be a

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fresh, a breath of fresh air.

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It looks like they've probably replaced her because, well, I'm not gonna say she's

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a clone of Alan Joyce because there's only one Alan Joyce, but, um mm-hmm.

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It wouldn't surprise me if that was what was going through their mind.

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An engineer told Crikey, the 7 87 cabins are atrocious for such

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new aircraft, Judah, Los Angeles facility, still being a basket case.

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The situation with the domestic workhorse 7 37 also continues to

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deteriorate as Qantas awaits replacement planes from Airbus whose orders were

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delayed time and again by management according to people in operations who

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described the fleet as a disaster.

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There we go.

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A friend of mine flew back to England a month ago from Brisbane.

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And he turned up, I dunno, three hours early for his flight, which

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was 10:00 AM they finally said, oh yeah, we were missing a part.

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It, yeah, basically something had broken down cuz it wasn't well maintained.

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By the time they've flown the part in the air crew had been on standby

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for too long and had to go off shift.

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Mm-hmm.

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So they had to pull in an alternate crew.

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They had to pull someone up from Melbourne so they had to fly 'em up on that.

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Yep.

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So they didn't fly into Singapore until that evening, put 'em up in

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a hotel overnight and he didn't, it took him 61 hours to get home.

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He sat.

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Yeah.

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Yep.

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It had such a good reputation.

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Yep.

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And and this, it's not as Qantas, this happens a lot.

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Senior executives, CEOs get paid enormous sums of money way more than

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is justified and do really shitty jobs.

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Yeah, exactly.

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But it just keeps happening and happening.

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And, you know, they passed laws about remuneration packages that were

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supposed to deal with this, where.

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There would be had to be passed at, at shareholder meetings.

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And if it, if it didn't pass the first time, then the, the next time

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positions would be up for a spill at the board or something like that.

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But it was never, it was never enough.

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It was not strong enough.

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And different players, superannuation sort of groups, it's too clubby.

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There's too much major shareholding too much where small groups of

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mates people who know each other are involved in these things.

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So they're prepared to pass these ridiculous remuneration packages.

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So a blight to be solved by somebody pet you, this labor government doesn't do it.

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But we'll see.

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Now apparently, while Scott Rummages in his esky, actually there was a

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good joke there when I mentioned how much I was gonna grab a beer.

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When I mentioned how much Alan Joyce was getting paid, 125 million over 15 years.

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Essential Lloyd Don in the chat room said he won't be able to

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put that in the overhead locker.

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No good one.

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Essential Lord Don.

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Yep.

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And alright, Scott Morrison has been looking for a new job and the word is,

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he might have found one, it's all a bit sort of unnamed sources talking about

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stuff, but it looks like potentially he's got a job with a UK defense company.

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So sometime between now and the end of the year, it seems he'll possibly go.

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To the most obvious candidate being b a e systems, the largest

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defense contractor in Europe, and the seventh largest in the world.

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And it's British aerospace, isn't it?

Speaker:

Mm-hmm.

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There we go.

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So the CEO of Transparency International told Crikey Australia should be

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very concerned that he would get a job with a UK defense company.

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He was the, the heart of setting up orcus and as a result would have

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sensitive information and contacts in the government that will give his

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potential employer a, for any contract.

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And the same group published a report in 2000, that's a long time ago,

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recommending that Australia adopt a, adopt an enforceable minimum, three year

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cooling off or anti revolving door period before a former minister can accept.

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An appointment like this in Canada, the period is five years.

Speaker:

So look, there's a really good article by Jack Waterford in the John Manou blog,

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and what he's saying is that it's shameful and unseemly for ministers, former

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ministers, and former pride ministers to go and work for, say, like Scott Morrison

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here with a UK company that's looking at forming contracts with Australia.

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He, he would've inside knowledge of Australian policy, procedures, people,

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and will help a foreign company get a higher profit margin and a bigger

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contract and protect potentially to the detriment of Australia because

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of his inside knowledge of Australia.

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Would you find if it was an Australian company though, well, At least the

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profits would stay in Australia, but he's really helping a foreign entity

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in its negotiations with Australia.

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And it's incredibly, when you've been well paid with a pension go

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and find another job of some other description, one that doesn't involve

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such a conflict of interest in it.

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So in this article by Jack Waterford, he says, A fellow does have a right

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to make aquit after being in politics.

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But why do so many seem to think that the ideal business to go into is the

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business of influencing former colleagues using the access their former public

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service has given them to those who make decisions and their own close knowledge

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and experience of the practical ways of pulling the levers of executive

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government on behalf of paying clients.

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These clients are usually seeking a favor, a privilege,

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or the exercise of a discretion.

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He goes on about Christopher Pine has been shameless in the way that

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he's gathered Top defense figures from here in abroad into a business

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to lobby Australian government on behalf of defense equipment makers to

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provide consultancy services offering allegedly disinterested defense advice.

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And no doubt, as with all big consultancy companies he'll soon

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have Chinese walls and separate units not speaking to each other.

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He'll have one group advising government about what they need,

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another group lobbying to have it made a high priority matter.

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And another arranging the tender process on behalf of the government.

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Another one, resolving who won the tender.

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And then another one writing independent reports about the efficiency and

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effectiveness of the new operation.

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So, the reason is because the politicians are career politicians.

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Yes.

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They don't have a trade.

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Yes.

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It's not like they're gonna leave politics and go and do something.

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That they did in their formal life.

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Yeah.

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Yes.

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But they're paid enough that they don't have to have a And they can, they're,

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they're not paid enough something that in their, in their retirement they

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are, and then in their, no, no, no.

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They, they're not paid millions.

Speaker:

Mm-hmm.

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They can make a shitload more money doing this.

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Well, I can make more money, that's for sure.

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But Yeah, exactly.

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So they're not paid enough.

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Yeah.

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If they can make more money, they're not paid enough.

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Enough is never enough for these guys.

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That's the problem.

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So, you know, there's plenty of work that they could do that doesn't rely on them.

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Maybe there isn't plenty of work.

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In the case of Scott Morrison, what, you wouldn't even put him in charge

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of a secondhand car yard, would you?

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But no.

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I was an idiot.

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I, I think we'd put him out on a crock farm feeding the Crocs y.

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Yes.

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Short of chickens.

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Ah, it's a good article.

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It goes on basically saying, enough is enough with this.

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It should be, Shameful for these people, but they just go ahead and do it.

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And you know, it annoyed me like when Pine quit, does his biography,

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then he is on seven 30 getting a softball interview from Lee.

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What was her name?

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Sales Lee.

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Sales, yeah.

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Oh, jokey, jokey.

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Christopher Pine, funny guy, blah, blah.

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And meanwhile he's just doing this sort of stuff, so there's no help from

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independent, so-called Independence like abc I saw Christopher Pine

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over in Singapore Airport on my way to Hong Kong recently, right?

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Yeah.

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I said, would you be Mr.

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Pine?

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Would you?

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He said, yes, I am.

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Oh yeah.

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And that was that?

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Yeah.

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He was on his way back to Australia from the west coast of the us.

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He had been over there.

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Presumably something to do with orcas.

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Okay.

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Yeah.

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Was he taller or shorter than you expected, Scott?

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No, he was sitting down at the time, so I couldn't actually

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comment on his, on his height.

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There we go.

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Okay.

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He certainly got a lot grayer than what I remember.

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Mm-hmm.

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But than he inside.

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I, so, yes.

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Yeah.

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So, alright.

Speaker:

One of the main things I had here's a couple of other ideas.

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Bernie Sanders in the US said that the US government should confiscate 100% of money

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that Americans make above 999 million.

Speaker:

In theory, yes.

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But the problem is that's not income tax.

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That's not income, that's, that's assets which are generally shares.

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How do you work out the assets?

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What happens if the stuff you confiscate, the remaining amount drops by 50%?

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Cuz the share prices are wiped out.

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Oops, sorry.

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Put or put it in the government hands.

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Put it in government ownership.

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Oh, you know, these people are, these oligarchs are too powerful.

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We not have people with a thousand million.

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It's too much.

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Well, they, they have as much, much money as a small as any US state.

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Yes.

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It's dangerous.

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It's too, too much power.

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When you've got, are you talking about a wealth tax or are you

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talking about an income tax?

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It wasn't clear actually from this article, but I just like

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the idea of a hundred percent.

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When you say that there's point, if it is an income tax,

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I agree wholeheartedly with him.

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If it's a, if it's a wealth tax, no, I don't.

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I have actually come around to the idea of taxing people based on their wealth.

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Mm, but I don't, I don't agree with a hundred percent of it being

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confiscated above a billion dollars.

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Why not?

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I think if you've got, if you've got a billion dollars or more, that's

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fine, but it goes up so that if you make, if you've got a billion

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dollars this year, that's fine.

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If you've got $1,000,000,002 billion and 1 1 1 0.1 billion, the next year

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you gotta give back, I don't know, 20, 30% of that to the government.

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So you actually have it going up.

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So if you end up going to 1.5 billion, then you gotta give back 40%.

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You go up to 1.6.

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You gotta give back 50% of the 1.5 no of the over the 1 billion mark.

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Why does anyone need a billion dollars though?

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Well, they don't, but you've gotta, you've gotta set something up that actually gives

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into this insane, what's the worst thing?

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This idea that we all have, that we're all gonna be billionaires

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one day because we're not.

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What's the worst thing that could happen if, if after a billion

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dollars people can't make any more?

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What's, what's the worst thing that could happen?

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Nothing's gonna happen.

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So, so hang on.

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Why?

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Why don't we just take anyone who's got over a billion dollars, shoot

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them and take all of their money?

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Well, Because that would be wrong.

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That why uses a whole range of other things.

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Yeah, exactly.

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You know, but Scott, yeah.

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What's, what is the problem?

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Will billionaires suddenly stop working?

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No, they won't.

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They will still, they will still keep working.

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Turn exactly the same.

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Exactly.

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It will.

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And they'll just have one of those less power.

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Yes, I agree.

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So I just think that, I just think there's no downside.

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You should moderate it by saying, instead of having to give up a

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hundred percent of everything over a billion dollars, you've gotta give up.

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You know, if, if you've got 1.1 billion, you've gotta give up 20 million.

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If you've got 1.4 billion, you've gotta give up 40.

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You've gotta give up 30 billion, $30 million, and so on and so forth.

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That, that would be the way I would actually structure a wealth tax.

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What's the current top rate of tax in Australia?

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No, 47% plus plus plus Medicare levy.

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So the ballpark you are giving here is a lower tax rate mm-hmm.

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Than the top marginal rate in Australia at the moment.

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This is for a wealth tax, which is a very different tax than what

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you are talking about income tax.

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I agree with you.

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It should be, but, but given the most, you should actually do it at

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that rate, but given the most with a wealth tax, billionaires can convert

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their income into capital gains.

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So they'll never pay, they'll never really earn income.

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Like a guy like Jeff Bezos really his income would be negligible

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in comparison to a year.

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So why would we consider wealth, you know, different to income for a guy

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like that who's basically just avoids income and it's all capital gain.

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You might have me there.

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I've gotta think about that because cuz his income is negligible.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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I know.

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His income's negligible.

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I agree.

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Base on he's owned in trust.

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He's, he's his private jets are owned in trust.

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Yeah.

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Everything's in trust.

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Yeah, I agree.

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Which is where it's wrong.

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And they've got to actually, they should actually say, look, you are now

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worth this amount of money, therefore you've gotta start handing, handing

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over a significant portion of this to the federal government every year.

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But you know, the beauty of a hundred percent basically says you

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are dangerous and we consider you dangerous and, and not good for public

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policy, not good for our civilization.

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That so much money is actually dangerous.

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And it sends a better signal, I reckon, than saying, oh, your fair share of.

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Tax is X amount.

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When really the argument is at this point you're a dangerous individual.

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Yeah.

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And I'm even, so Bill and Melinda Gates have given up whatever it

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is, half their wealth to the trust.

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Mm-hmm.

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Which is, yeah, it's great.

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It's altruistic.

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But the problem is they set the priorities.

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Yes.

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It, it's not down to the needs of the people, it's, it's whatever

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catches his whim at the time.

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Yeah.

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Which has basically been malaria vaccination and that type of thing.

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Malaria is one of them.

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Yeah.

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And, and, and I'm not saying that's a bad thing, but what I'm saying is it's a bad

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thing, rather than him handing the money over to the W H O and going, all right

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guys, spend this where you need this.

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Yes.

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Good point.

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So anyway, I think I just like that Bernie Sanders has just gone

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for the full hundred percent.

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Yeah, I know.

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And I just think to myself, Bernie's out for a headline more than anything else.

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Right.

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You know?

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Yeah, yeah.

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With a bit of luck, the Greens will take that up for the next election, so Yeah.

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We'll see.

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And, and says get rid of trust laws.

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Yep.

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Well, I agree with it.

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It, it is wrong that you've got a, you know, well my family's got a family

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trust too and you know, it's it's just a tax Dodge for Rich upper class was,

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it was, you know, do you know what the corporate trustee of our family trust is?

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Teco Tax Evading Family Company Prior Limited.

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That's gonna, is that right?

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There's an honesty to that, Scott.

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Yes, there is an honesty to that, and it's just one of those things.

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It's it's one of those things that you just think to yourself, okay, you know,

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I think to myself, you know, my family has had it very good for a very long time.

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It's one of those things I just think to myself, we should

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now actually give that up.

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Yeah.

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Dad had a trust because he was an auditor and you cannot have a limited

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liability company do an audit.

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You have to be personally responsible.

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Mm-hmm.

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Right.

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And so he moved all of his assets into a trust so that exactly he

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was ever sued, which is basically what my old man was doing too.

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He had most of his assets in the trust too.

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Yeah.

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But and, and it's been interesting.

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I did see an article that said effectively limited liability companies have led to

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a lot of dodgy dealings because if you can just dissolve your company and far up

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a new one, you can Phoenix it basically.

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Mm.

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And you're left with no liability.

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It's, it enables you to take bigger risks Yep.

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At the expense of other people.

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Mm.

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True.

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Hey Scott, seeing your family has done so well over the years, here's, here's

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an opportunity to compare yourselves.

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I did actually look at that and that sort of stuff, and I'm slapping

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in the middle of everything.

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I didn't make it.

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I didn't, as, as an individual, I didn't make a hell of alo.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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So this is prepared by the Gratin Institute and it is about how

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much average ordinary Australians earn in different age brackets and

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how much they they own as well.

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So let's go through a few.

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So, now the let's look at workers, for example.

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So as a.

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Cause people can earn income who are not workers.

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Like they might have some retirement income or something like that.

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So, dear listener, in all of this, as we're about to talk about it,

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you've got the, you've got the mean and you've got the medium.

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So, as an average, the mean is where, say for example, income, you would add

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up all the income of all Australians and you were divided by the number

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of Australians to get your mean.

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The other way is to line up all of your Australians from the poorest to

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the riches richest, and walk along the line and stop at the halfway point.

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And what we often see in these statistics is that the mean is a relatively

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high figure compared to the median.

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And the reason for that is the people at the top end have an inordinately.

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High amounts, which skews the mean to the higher level.

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So, so back to these figures just dealing with adults, the average income

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is 58,238, but the median is 40 2027.

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So that's in terms of total income for adults.

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Now that, that includes people who aren't working, for example.

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So amongst workers are full-time working adults.

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So employee earnings, full-time adults, the average is 97,439.

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The median is 84,628.

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So, so that's That's the typical, if you are a full-time adult and you are earning

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124,000, then you're in the top 20%.

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And if you're earning 154,000, you are in the top 10%.

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So, and in this figures, which is in the show notes, it shows it for

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households and other categories.

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And the other one I thought was interesting in these in what they prepared

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here is, is net wealth, how much you own.

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And interesting one for superannuation here, because they've broken

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it up into age-based stuff.

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So, let's go for in superannuation for people in the sort of 41 to 64

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year old age bracket, the the average.

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Is 310,000 in superannuation in a household.

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Actually, I'll do it on individuals, sorry, back to individuals.

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41 to 64 year old.

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The average superannuation amount is 176,000, but the median is only 90,000.

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So, if you are a younger person, the the average is 46,000.

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So this is a 25 to 40 year old.

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The median is only 25,000.

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If you're retired an individual, you're 65 or over.

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The average superannuation is a hundred and is only 171,000,

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and the typical is zero.

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The actual median is zero.

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So, Retired individuals 65 and older line 'em up from the one with the

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lowest superannuation to the one with the highest walk along the line.

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And when you get to the halfway point, that person's got zero.

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That was an interesting figure, that one I thought.

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So lots of people elderly who rely any superannuation.

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Yeah.

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So that's in the show notes.

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And you can see, oh, maybe there was one other there that might have

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been interesting was home equity.

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It's, God, this is the one where you're gonna be doing very

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well home equity households.

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Why are you trying to make me feel bad about my real estate investments?

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Because I love the way that, that Landon called you the slum, lord.

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Was it Landon called you the slum lord of No, I, I called myself the

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slum lord of Central Queensland.

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So, Let's look at middle aged 41 to 64.

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That's you, Scott.

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Yes, I know.

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Mm-hmm.

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And it's actually a bit lower than what I've actually got.

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So anyway, home equity average level is 508 thousand.

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The top 25% of six 50, top 95%, you would have 1.3 in household equity anyway.

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If you're out there, if you're 41 to 64 and you've got household

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equity of 1.3 million, you are on the top 5% when it comes to that.

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So, so basically everybody in Sydney and Melbourne, well, it's equity.

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So how big is the mortgage?

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Because this is, well, yeah, but I mean, if they're 41 to 64 Yeah.

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If they haven't been divorced you're guessing that they bought

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a house in their twenties?

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Mm.

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So the house they bought in their twenties was worth a lot less.

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Yes.

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I'm guessing that they've probably got a million in inequity.

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Probably.

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Yes.

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Yep.

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The problem is if you live in Sydney or Melbourne or Sydney,

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you need the house to live in.

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So having all that money locked up is of no use unless you're gonna sell

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it and move to somewhere cheaper.

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Tree change when you retire.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Hence all the Mexicans.

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Yeah, that's right.

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They're all here.

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Right.

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Hello to James who joined us in the chat room and Andrew and noisy Andrew.

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Good on you.

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That was good.

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We've had some people in the chat room.

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What else have we got?

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I think, guys, that's that's about it.

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Unless you had something that you wanted to add.

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All good?

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No, I don't think so.

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I think we covered most of it off.

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All right.

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Next week.

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Go back now and listen to the budget.

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Okay.

Speaker:

Yeah, next week might be something different cuz I've just gotta do a demo

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for a client, which is sort of an after hours thing and I don't think I'll be

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able to finish it and get back in front of a microphone to do something live.

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But we might be later time, it might be eight 30 rather than seven 30.

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We'll see, look at the Facebook page and see what announcements are made.

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Not sure what I'll do make our minds up as we get closer to that one.

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So yeah.

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Alright, well thank you in the chat room for your comments.

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Very good.

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As always, gentlemen and everybody else out there talk to you next week.

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Bye for now and it's a good night from me and it's a good night from him.

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