EPISODE OVERVIEW

Duration: Approximately 35 minutes

Best For: Trapped entrepreneurs who feel stuck in a role they once loved, knowing something needs to change yet paralysed by fear of making the wrong move

Key Outcome: Listeners will understand why they overestimate the harm of making a bold decision and underestimate their own resilience, giving them the clarity to finally take action

He was a pastor carrying everyone else's burdens. Then his body gave him stress headaches every single day for two years.

THE BOTTOM LINE

You know that feeling. The business you built to serve people has become the thing that owns you. You wake up exhausted, answer emails before sunrise, and tell yourself you cannot possibly step away because everyone depends on you. Eric Robinson lived that exact trap. As a Baptist pastor, he carried the weight of his congregation until his body screamed for him to stop. The thing is, when he finally made the terrifying leap to join the FBI at 32, something remarkable happened. The headaches vanished. Not because the FBI was easier. He spent 15 years on SWAT, investigated terrorists, and witnessed humanity at its worst. They vanished because he stopped being the bottleneck, stopped carrying burdens alone, and discovered what happens when you finally trust yourself to make the bold move you have been putting off. Over 24 years, Eric earned two Attorney General Awards, helped bring justice to torture victims, and stopped a plot to kill a federal judge. His story reveals a truth trapped entrepreneurs desperately need to hear. You are more resilient than you believe, and the decision you keep delaying is costing you more than making the wrong choice ever could.

WHY THIS EPISODE MATTERS TO YOU

The longer you stay trapped in indecision, the more your health, relationships, and freedom slip away. Eric's daily headaches were his body's warning. What is yours?

You will discover why the fear of making the wrong choice is actually more damaging than any mistake you could make. Because wrong choices can be corrected. Paralysis cannot.

Learn how FBI agents handle extreme stress through team support and shared stories, a model you can apply to escape the isolation that comes with running everything yourself.

If you keep delaying the changes you know you need to make, you will still be having this same conversation with yourself a year from now. Only more exhausted.

KEY INSIGHTS YOU CAN IMPLEMENT TODAY

Your body is keeping score. Eric had stress headaches every single day for two years because he carried everyone's problems alone. The moment he made his decision, they stopped. Your physical symptoms are data. What is your body telling you about the trap you are in?

Teams absorb what individuals cannot. In ministry, Eric felt he could not show weakness. In the FBI, agents took care of each other through shared stories and survivor humour. The trapped entrepreneur who insists on handling everything alone is not strong. They are stuck. Find your team.

Vulnerability opens doors that authority cannot. Whether interviewing criminals or working with informants, Eric discovered that authenticity and openness created connection that force never could. The same applies to your team, your clients, and your family. Stop performing. Start connecting.

You overestimate harm and underestimate resilience. This was Eric's parting wisdom and it cuts to the heart of why you remain trapped. You imagine catastrophe if you step back, delegate, or make a bold change. That said, you have survived everything life has thrown at you so far. You are, as Eric says, undefeated.

Movement beats perfection. A legitimately wrong decision still moves you forward. You course correct and rebuild. Paralysis offers no such option. The entrepreneurs who escape the trap are not the ones who make perfect choices. They are the ones who make choices.

GOLDEN QUOTES WORTH REMEMBERING

"I think that human beings overestimate the harm that will be done if they choose wrong. We underestimate our resilience, the ability to snap back if something bad happens to us." - Eric Robinson

"I'm undefeated. I have gotten through all the things. Anything bad has happened, I'm here. Any stupid decision I made, I'm still here. So make those stupid decisions. Because movement is better than no movement." - Eric Robinson

"The FBI doesn't give you anything for stress. What I experienced is that agents take care of each other. We would tell stories recounting harrowing experiences. And then they were survivor stories." - Eric Robinson

"You can keep the human in, elevate the human to be able to do more human, and let the AI do the stuff that it doesn't need to do. Then you can be powerful." - Roy Castleman

"I didn't feel like I could give an image of I'm not perfect, I'm not holding it together. And so much of what you're describing, I think yeah, that was me." - Eric Robinson on the isolation of leadership

QUICK NAVIGATION FOR BUSY LEADERS

00:00 - Introduction: Meet the man who left the pulpit for the FBI

03:15 - The 24 Year Journey: Why Eric never lost his fascination with FBI work

05:40 - From Pastor to Agent: What drove the career change at 32

08:20 - The Headache Revelation: How stress manifests when you carry everyone's burdens

11:45 - Attorney General Award Cases: Justice for torture victims in Chicago

15:30 - Stopping a Terrorist Plot: The judge assassination attempt

20:15 - Different Stressors: Why FBI trauma was easier than pastoral care

23:40 - How Teams Handle Stress: The power of shared stories and survivor humour

27:00 - AI and Human Connection: Why technology cannot replace authentic communication

30:20 - Vulnerability in Leadership: Drawing out truth through openness

33:45 - Writing the Book: Using conversation to unlock buried stories

36:15 - The Resilience Principle: Why you overestimate harm and underestimate your ability to recover

GUEST SPOTLIGHT

Name: Eric Robinson

Bio: Eric Robinson spent 12 years in Christian ministry before making the bold leap to join the FBI at age 32, where he served for 24 years. He investigated drugs, gangs, public corruption, organised crime, crimes against children, financial crimes, and national security. Eric spent 15 years as a SWAT operator and firearms instructor. His upcoming book "Irreverend: From Saving Souls To Chasing Sinners In The FBI" releases in the autumn.

Connect with Eric:

Website: preachertobreacher.com

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/eric-robinson-9220053a4/

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/_eric_robinson/

YOUR NEXT ACTIONS

This Week: Identify the one decision you have been delaying because you fear making the wrong choice. Write down specifically what you think will happen if it goes wrong. Notice how catastrophic your imagination makes it. Then ask yourself what is actually likely.

This Month: Find or create your team. Join an entrepreneurial community, schedule regular conversations with peers who understand your world, or simply start sharing your real challenges with someone who has walked a similar path. Stop carrying everything alone.

This Quarter: Make the bold move. Whether it is delegating a major responsibility, stepping back from day to day operations, or making a significant change you have been putting off, commit to action. Your resilience is greater than your fear.

EPISODE RESOURCES

Book mentioned: "Irreverend: From Saving Souls To Chasing Sinners In The FBI" by Eric Robinson (releasing autumn)

Book mentioned: "Thinking Outside Your Brain" by Roy Castleman (releasing 4th May)

Book mentioned: "Book Magic" by Lucy McGrath

Programme mentioned: The Dance Program by Daniel Priestley

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READY TO ESCAPE THE TRAP?

Take the Freedom Score Quiz: https://scoreapp.atpbos.com/

Discover how trapped you are in your business and get your personalised roadmap to freedom in under 5 minutes.

Book a Free Strategy Session: https://www.atpbos.com/contact

Let's discuss how to build a business that works WITHOUT you.

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CONNECT WITH YOUR HOST, ROY CASTLEMAN

Roy is the founder of All The Power Limited and creator of Elevate360, a business coaching system for entrepreneurs ready to scale without burnout. As a certified Wim Hof Method Instructor and the UK's first certified BOS UP coach, Roy combines AI automation, wellness practices, and business operating systems to help trapped entrepreneurs reclaim their freedom.

Website: www.atpbos.com

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/roycastleman/

YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@allthepowerltd

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Good morning, good afternoon, good evening wherever you are in

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the world today, we're in for something different. We have

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Eric Robinson here with us. Robinson. And Eric is a

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former FBI agent, is that right? That is correct. Three

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months removed from the FBI. When I was accepted

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in the FBI, I remember being two years old and

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I was giddy. I thought, this is amazing. And despite

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tedium and disappointment and frustrations over 24 years, I never

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lost fascination. I really get to do this. This is

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really part of my life. Despite the many downtimes I

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did keep, this sense of this is very remarkable that

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I get to be here. What were you doing? What

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weren't you doing? That's about right. I started in Chicago,

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Illinois. I did narcotics investigations, gangs, public corruption

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and civil rights. Then I moved to the Toledo, Ohio

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office and I worked organized crime, crimes against children, financial

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crimes, and then national security. So I've done most of

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what the FBI covers at some point. What inspired you

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at the ripe old age of 32 to do such

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a change in career? I had started out in Christian

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ministry for a number of years and it seemed like

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the kind of thing that I wanted to do. I

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was driven towards this. I saw the benefits in working

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in ministry and though I didn't know how to handle

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dealing with people's problems, so when they came to me

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with their life issues, I was burdened with it. And

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that resulted in me having stress related headaches every single

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day for two years until I finally realized I can't

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do this anymore and applied for two jobs. But

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how do you go from there? Surely that's out of

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the frying pan into the fire. I have a wife

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that's way out of my league. And so you got

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to take a shot sometimes at the pretty girls. And

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I thought, okay, let me. The FBI would be amazing.

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I don't even remember what brought it to mind to

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say, I think I can do this. But I thought,

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I'll give it a try. And this was in the

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nascent days of the Internet. So I was filling out

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paper, I thought, let me take a try. This could

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be great. And I applied for one other job I

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was overqualified for. They turned me down. And the FBI

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said, hey, let's keep this going. And April of 2002

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is when I came on board. April 2002, when I

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started my first company. Fantastic. Yeah. And what a journey

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that's been. Yeah. So I was chatting with a friend

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who was nearing retirement in the FBI and he was

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remarking on somebody he was interacting with 25 years ago.

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And I was like, Buddy, everything's 25 years ago anymore.

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This large period where that was the previous life. Here's

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the FBI now. Looking back, one of the things that

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I do a lot of is I work with AI,

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come out of the FBI as AI is really coming

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into its own. And I can see so many challenges

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day to day for people because of job and all

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the standard things that people are worried about. And so

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many opportunities for everybody else. Right. For anyone that actually

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dives into it. How do you think going into this

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stage of turmoil that we're going into how society going

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to react based on history? Probably not. Well, like

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any other tool, good people are going to use it

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for good things and bad people are going to use

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it for their own benefits. That's going to open up

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so much more issues that you and I have no

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concept of as we sit here today. The concept of

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AI being used by the FBI was coming into an

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idea of, hey, I wonder what this will be and

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how we might use it. But just talk yet. We've

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had computer systems, we've had sophisticated devices, we've

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had great judicial process and intelligent agents over the years.

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And yet it always comes down to it has to

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be person to person. Even if the Bureau adopts use

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of AI, it's going to have to still be used

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by people, enhancing what they're able to investigate and find

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out. I believe that you can keep the human in,

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elevate the human to be able to do more human,

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and let the AI do the stuff that it doesn't

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need to do. Then you can be powerful. Yeah. And

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you can see how when something comes out and it

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is just artificial intelligence, it's somebody saying, hey, make me

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this, and then walks away. It stands out as this

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tastes saccharine, this feels off, and it's not authentic, as

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opposed to give me something and now I'm going to

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make it mine on top of this. Yeah, for sure.

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And it's an energy piece of building rapport and actually

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feeling what the person is feeling. Even if we're on

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the other side of a zoom call, we can still

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react as humans and. Yeah. What's it, 95% of communication

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is nonverbal, Right? Yeah. Some ridiculous thing. You must have

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some really interesting stories to tell us. So pick an

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interesting story and hit us with it. I was privileged

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enough to work two cases throughout my career that were

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awarded with the Attorney General's Award. One of them, I

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worked in Chicago with my partner Jake, that brought about

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justice for the city because four Years, there was a

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police commander for the Chicago police who had been torturing

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suspects. He and his team had been doing that, and

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that was in the 70s and 80s. And the Chicago

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police just brushed it aside. These guys were getting results.

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The FBI did the same until many years later, we

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were able to get charges upon him for obstruction of

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justice and perjury. That was a case that I would

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say I'm very proud of having been a part of.

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Then there was a later case where my friend Sean

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had indicted three brothers from India, and they had been

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funding Anwar Alaki, the spokesperson for Al Qaeda. That's

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illegal in the United States. You can't fund terrorists. Charges

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were brought on him, and the three were put in

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jail awaiting trial. Meanwhile, Yahya Farooq Muhammad decided

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he would be best served if he could kill his

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judge. And he told another inmate, hey, if I can

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get my judge killed, I think that I can get

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out, and now I can do some actual harm to

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people instead of just giving money. So he tells this

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man, I'm looking to see my judge killed. That guy

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comes to us. And I've had jailhouse informants, and

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they're not the most reliable, and many are just looking

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to have fun. So a lot of them just make

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up stories. Maybe they'll get something out of it. Who

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knows? And I didn't really believe this guy, but Sean

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said, yeah, let's try it out. And it's a complicated

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process to put recording equipment on an inmate, send it

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back in and do it safely. And we sent him

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back in, and he went to the subject and he

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said, hey, you know all that stuff you said about

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killing your judge? Tell me that again. And the guy

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told him again. Now we had the guy who wants

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to kill his judge. From there, we went through the

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process of introducing an undercover that he could call. Meanwhile,

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the informant was just some hillbilly, just some nobody, except

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that he did probably know Hitman in his life. He

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was confiding in him and trusting in him. They worked

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out plans to blow up bridges, create a terrorist training

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camp, and they even had a plan where, if he

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got out, he could go to the Mall of America,

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huge mall, and they would just kill as many people

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as possible. All of these terrible things, along with killing

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his judge. We had the undercover meet with him. They

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had a jail call, and he gave him the code

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word, which was, I'd like to buy some puppies. That

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would be a little unusual for a Muslim man to

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do. That was arranged. And then our subject had his

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wife pay our undercover, $1,000 for the puppies. And then

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the undercover showed him this photo which was the

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face of the judge superimposed onto one of my buddies.

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And so I remind him, when we needed a 7

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year old Lebanese man to look like he was dead,

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clearly he had the body of that, from there went

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forward, added charges, got 26 and a half years on

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a guy who had plans to kill many Americans. So

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going through all of this, you told us previously that

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you were stressed out by people coming to you as

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a pastor and offloading problems. How does seeing the total

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low life of the world not affect you in the

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same way? Yeah, I don't know, but it didn't. They

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were different stressors. One was dealing with people I

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cared about. A woman comes to me, she's on our

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worship team and she says, my, a friend of mine,

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her husband is having a psychic break and he's going

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to leave the family with their four kids and run

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off with a woman he met on the Internet. And

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that bothers me. So I don't just talk to him

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and go, okay, that's solved. Whereas the work I was

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doing with the FBI, they're stressors. And then the body

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says, I'm going to give you what you need to

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deal with it. And now we're done. So it just

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happened to be that these things that I struggled with

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previously did not have the same effect of the weight

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still being there. And I'll tell you, when I got

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accepted in the FBI, when I got that conditional acceptance

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that day, I just didn't have headaches anymore. So I

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don't know the science, but I can tell you that

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was a cue to me that this was the right

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decision. And yeah. Does the FBI give you different

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tools to deal with stress? We as business owners, we

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deal with stress a lot in such a different way

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because it's quite a lonely job, for sure. People think,

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yeah, great, you're the top of the pyramid, but you're

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actually the bottom of the pyramid where it all ends,

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holding up the pyramid. And I don't have anyone to

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talk to because your wife doesn't really want to know.

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You want to keep her safe from the problems. Your

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family doesn't want to know. You can't tell your staff,

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you can't tell your suppliers. That's a lonely and very

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stressful job. So I'm interested if the FBI has any

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secrets in dealing with stress. You described how I felt

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as a pastor. I was the one leading, we had

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a decent sized church, but it was just me and

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I didn't feel like I could talk to people because

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there was only so many people. I didn't feel like

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I could give an image of. I'm not perfect. I'm

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not holding it together. And so much of what you're

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describing, I think, yeah, that was me. In the FBI,

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it's a team. SWAT is a team. Your squad is

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a team. And to directly answer your question, no, the

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FBI doesn't give you anything. We have employee assistance, and

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no one avails themselves of that. We have chaplains and

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people don't engage with that. But what I experienced

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is that agents take care of each other. So we

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would tell stories recounting some of those harrowing experiences. Maybe

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small t trauma, maybe a difficulty or reflecting

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on. We could have been killed. And then they were

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survivor stories of. And yet we're here. Yeah. And guys

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are laughing full time. That's a very powerful point you

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put in there. Yeah. The place where we feel most

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connected as entrepreneurs is when we get into the entrepreneurial

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communities. Yeah. I've got a small community that I run.

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Brings business owners together. And when you go out and

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you meet other business owners that have the same problems,

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that sense of community is so important. Right. And I

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imagine that your stories that you share with each other

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are going to be somewhat similar of telling of risk

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and almost failure, but success or challenges overcome. And

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they don't have to be great ones, but down to

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the last dollar. And then finally we had this. And

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those are survivor stories as well. And just speaking them

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out loud brings it out of what's buried inside. Otherwise.

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Yeah. Being able to actually connect as a human. Some

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people journal, some people talk to a therapist. And for

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us in the FBI, we have similarly experienced people. And

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so we can just say, hey, I don't need to

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update you on what this looks like. You can put

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yourself there because you've been places like that, too. I

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have a ChatGPT or a Claude I can talk to

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if that helps you. The strange thing is. And I

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just slightly. Because it's not. You spoke about journaling and

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I think I'm similar to many entrepreneurs is mildly adhd.

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Maybe not mildly. You're always doing a million things at

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once and my head gets full. Yeah. I don't write

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fast. I don't type fast. So I've always found this

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barrier in being able to get what's in here out.

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Now I can talk. Yeah. And I can just. I

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literally do this exercise if I get too stressed out.

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Okay. I've got this problem. I've Got that problem, I

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got this problem. I'll stop for two minutes. I've got

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this problem, look at that problem, I got this problem

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and I just talk it all out. Yeah, and now

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it's written down somewhere. Yeah. Do you also find that

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along the way in doing that you're now self examining

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too? So not just record keeping of I got to

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get these ideas, but by talking about it, do you

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find that you're also examining purposes and that go along

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with those ideas? I think what happens is because I've

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got a specific protocol and I use, which is 3,

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4, however many times it takes for me to get

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my head here right, I know at the end I'm

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saying to the AI agent, okay, now my goal in

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two weeks time is to get this done of these

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things that I've thrown at you actually take me to

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that goal, which then don't I know there's a resolution

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coming out of it. And the reason I do, two

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minutes, three minutes, stop, let my brain sit because then

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anything that's below the surface comes up. It's like this,

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okay? It's coming out, it's coming out. When it's empty,

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then I know, okay, now I've got capacity to work,

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now I've got capacity to carry on. So it's interesting

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and I think in the same way I know

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we're going on a bit about AI, but communication is

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so important, right? Oh yes, communication is everything. And you

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don't communicate very well, right? I think, yeah, we think

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we do. We will tell our wife or our partner

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or our business partner or we'll tell them exactly what

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we're thinking. But we have all this context in our

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head, right? So we just say it and they'll say,

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yeah, yeah, because they want to keep the report going.

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Yeah. And then they'll leave and come back and they've

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done the totally wrong thing. We didn't understand it. And

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what's really blown my mind is that AI is exactly

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the same, right? I will just go, what it gives

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me back is rubbish. Then I know rubbish is gone

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in has actually helped me communicate way better with everybody

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else around me. And then what I had found in

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ministry and then working in the FBI was I can

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express myself at any period. But then I had to

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not just be the one who has the information, has

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all the answers, that when congregants came to me and

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said, hey, I've got this issue, I don't just go,

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okay, here's some Bible verses and that's it. Those might

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have been the right verses. But I had to be

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open and curious about what they had to say. And

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that same issue came up in the FBI that I'm

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working with informants. They could tell me, hey, this guy

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is saying he's going to do this. I don't just

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take it as that I need to dig in with

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them more, say, that's our starting point. What more can

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I get out of you? And that would be the

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same with victims and criminals, too, that I can't come

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to the criminals saying, I, I know everything. I'm going

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to try to draw them out and take them from

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a position where this is the worst point in their

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life, that I realize this, and I'm going to help

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you through it. And now they owe me. I'm going

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to be their guide through this. Because this might have

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only happened to you once or twice. I've done this

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a thousand times. Let me help you. And now they've

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opened up, and now we've brought it from adversarial to

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more of a conversation that is a familiar position to

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them. And then the mind tricks them to think this

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is normal, this is back and forth. And now I'm

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saying things I shouldn't be saying. And I think there's

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an element of vulnerability that comes into this that we

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don't like to do as humans. Right. And I've learned

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that the more vulnerable I am with people, the more

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honest I am, the more authentic I am in what

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I'm saying and sharing what I believe to be my

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truth, the more they will open up to me and

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share their truth, and then we can meet at a

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much more balanced level. Yes. Applying it to that

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idea, to what I went through. I am pretty sure

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what the truth is because I've spent months investigating, and

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I'm going to posit that as what I see as

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true. But I want you to now tell me what

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your truth is. And so even if I know that

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truth isn't true, I'm going to let you go, because

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that's going to help me understand your mindset. Because if

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you're going to keep sticking to this, and I know

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you're not going to work with me, and it also

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might open up to me. All right, Now I know

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what your defense is, because you keep coming back to

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this one thing, and I might actually learn something, too,

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God forbid that I'm open to what a criminal has

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to say, and now I learn more. You must have

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learned a huge amount about people generally on both of

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these sides of the equation, right? Yeah. And now if

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I'm learning from my mistakes or I'm learning from what

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I did, well, that carries on to, I'm going to

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arrest a guy sometime in the future. And now what

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I failed at here, I need to tweak that and

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try something new for the next guy. So what does

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the future hold for you? You're a young guy. You're

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obviously. Yeah. Am I? You just need to shave all

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the hair off and then you look like me. Exactly.

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Get the gray out. I have written a book about

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the crazy experience of what happens when a Baptist pastor

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leaves the pulpit and joins the FBI. A guy who's

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never handled a gun before ends up joining a SWAT

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team and works on it for 15 years, telling that

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story and preparing for that publication in the fall. And

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then from there, trying to take what I learned through

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all those years. The FBI has given me a lot

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of good training and trying to pass that on to

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others as well. Did the process of writing the book,

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how was that in terms of therapy? It was. I

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have journaled in the past. I'm not a journaler now.

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Here we are, where I'm getting to relive these stories.

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I always had that fascination of, this is great to

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be in the FBI. And then at the end of

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my career and now after. It's wonderful because now I

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get to look back. The idea of being an FBI

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agent is so much seeded to one's identity, and it

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definitely was for me. So I went from being that

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guy to just a guy. But looking back helps. It

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helps in the transition to go. Yeah. I get to

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talk to people like you and tell you, I used

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to be cool. And you're like, yeah, great, you're still

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cool. Yeah. I've literally. My book launches on the 4th

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of May. Okay. And it talks about AI, but as

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a. Thinking outside your brain is the name of it.

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For me, it was about finding my voice. I have

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a hundred stories. I was born in Zimbabwe. I grew

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up in South Africa. I came to the UK with

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£400 in my pocket, own four companies, and I do

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a podcast. There's been a whole host of things. There's.

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But I could never get it out. Yeah. I couldn't

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write properly and I couldn't type properly. Right. But now

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I can talk it out. Right. And I just talked

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it out. And I have all these skills that I

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didn't have before. And it was a very therapeutic process.

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Did you map out how the book should be and

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then add pieces to it, or did you just sit

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down and just Start talking it out. I'm. I'm a

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learner. I love learning. And so on this program called

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the Dance Program, which is Daniel Priestley, and one of

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his things is how to write a book. So they've

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got a course in there for writing books, and there's

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a book called book Magic. Lucy McGrath wrote it. So

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I looked at that. I was like, okay, yeah, we

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need to learn some of this. Yes. And so I

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took Lucy McGrath's book and I put it into my

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AI and said, I want to write a book in

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a format, something like this. So I was like, okay,

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fine. So then I said, oh, I need to do

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that. You need this many of these things and this

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many of these things and this many of these things.

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So then I spoke in my stories into the AI

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to go put them in the databases over there. So

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just put story after story. And I've got 30 or

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40 stories in there. And yeah, I sat down and

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did that in two days. Yeah. Because I just went

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on a time basis then over the time since then,

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I've been adding to it, adjusting. And then I used

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the AI to say, okay, now how do I put

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this all together? How do I structure it? Where does

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it fit in? This is the message I'm trying to

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get across. How do I put that together? So it

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was a really good learning process in what A is

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capable of. I often say I've authored the book, I

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haven't written it. It's my stories, it's my words, it's

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my way of talking. But if I went out to

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a ghostwriter, the ghostwriter would have to sit there, write

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it down, record it. Then they'd have to take away.

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They'd have to massage it. Yeah. Put it into something

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that's consumable by other people. And this is what I've

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used AI for, to be my ghostwriter. It's been an

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interesting experience. That's useful for me. I was thinking, let

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me skeletonize this. Let me put all the parts down,

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because I know otherwise I'm just going to be the

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guy who just sits and types. I sat down and

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I read like you. I'm reading a book on how

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to write a book. I sat down at the computer

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to give structure. While I was sitting there, I thought,

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let me just start with the first chapter. And then

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it just started going because the stories are there. And

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here's a story, and here's a story. And like, oh,

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my gosh, here's another one I'm writing. Remember these on

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the side? So many of these, like when the agents

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sit around and chat and they start saying, I'll remember

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that time we did this. I can take myself out

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of that and look at it and go, you guys

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have any idea how incredible that is? These are just

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simple things where we talk about, oh, yeah, on this

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operation, remember this happened. And most people, most

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regular folks, if they heard that, would probably say, that's

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amazing. I can't believe that. Or, I'm sorry you had

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to experience that. You're like, oh, I'm sorry. I thought

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it was funny. That was our day in life. And

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that's it. You sit around the table with five people

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and you start telling stories, and then it starts flying.

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Except it was just me writing the book. I used

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AI to say, I'm going to tell a story, but

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I want you to ask me questions about what I'm

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missing from the story. So interview me. Yeah. I'd say

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this is what happened. My partner, Laura, she's. I've done

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some crazy things. I jump out of airplanes, go free

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diving, go ice diving. But I'll tell a story. I

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was run over by a drunken driver when I was

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19 and broke my leg in two places. Broke my

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arm, my face. I always used to tell the story

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in a bland way. When I told that to AI,

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it interrogated me. On my instruction, I interrogated, what about

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this? How did you feel here? What happened here? And

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then I could start thinking, okay, this is what's missing

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in the picture. To the point that I wrote the

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first story like this and I read it out and

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I brought myself to tears because I'd never felt it

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like that. Right. You know, you're doing well if you

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can make yourself cry. For sure. So that was there.

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Yeah. I think you have to have that connection with

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your words. Otherwise, they're not your words. Yeah. Look out

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for it on the 4th of May. Yeah. If you

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want to know anything about AI, it's not an AI

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tool book. It's how humanity has to think about the

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power that it can bring us. You released a book,

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and now I see a course in your future where

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you train people. Fifteen years on swat, Firearms instructor, tactical

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instructor. I've had the experience of working with local law

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enforcement, and I have seen how FBI agents get very

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high level of training, whereas the police, who are more

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often in the mix with people, get a lot less.

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And that's a gap that I tried to fill when

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I was an agent to help out and have things

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to pass along. Now, one of my favorite things to

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do when I was training the police was I would

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say, hey guys, guess what I used to do before

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I came in the FBI and if you get it

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right, I'll give you a patch. And only had one

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person get it. Over the years, I've seen in the

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business world there's so many missing elements in how you

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handle yourself. And I can't help thinking that with what

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you've been through, there's probably a cross thread that you

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can actually do something quite useful for business owners that's

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also a thought of providing some direction and security for

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how, from what I've experienced, what are indicators of threats?

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How do we mitigate these threats as well? I was

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talking with a few people from church leadership and security

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of so many things within religious buildings,

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mosques, whatever it might be that they're so focused on.

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Like the pastor's got to focus just on taking care

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of people. And yet there are very soft targets and

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threats can come from the side and threats can come

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from within. And there's no preparation for. Do we think

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ahead of time of what we're going to do if

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there are allegations of some type of impropriety towards this

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member or towards someone in the staff? And then people

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make poor decisions in the heat of those moments. What's

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your from all your years of experience both pastoring and

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FBI, what would be one thought you'd leave my listeners

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with? So I was in my 30s, early 30s, late

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20s when I was pastoring and then struggling with the

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headaches. Part of my process of putting off making a

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change was that I thought this was right. Part of

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it obviously was that I was afraid to make a

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wrong choice, that this seemed. This is a calling, this

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is what I meant to do. How do I choose

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something else? And what if that's wrong? And so

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now, years later, from experience, from having repetitions in making

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poor choices, I think that human beings overestimate the

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harm that will be done if they choose wrong, if

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they go through trauma, if they have something like legitimately

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a poor choice, we will re center and have a

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new life now in a different avenue. And we underestimate

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our resilience, the ability to snap back if something bad

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happens to us, whatever it might be. And from the

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years of seeing what has happened, what I like to

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say is I'm undefeated. I have gotten through all the

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things. Anything bad has happened, I'm here. Any stupid decision

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I made, I'm still here. So make those stupid decisions.

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Because movement is better than no movement, right? Yeah. You

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make the decision. And even if it's wrong. Legitimately, objectively

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wrong. You come back. Well, thank you very much for

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joining me, Eric and I look forward to the book.

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Thanks so much, Roy. Appreciate it.