Post-Natal Depression

I’m with guest, Samantha Amakihe, about Postnatal depression and her experience soon after the birth of her child. We discuss what led to it and what helped the situation turn around. 

Questions include:

• Leading up to the birth of your child how were you feeling?
• After the birth of your child when did you realise that something wasn’t right?
• What were your symptoms of post natal depression?
• What support (if any) did you have?
• How did your friends and family try to you with post natal depression?
• How did you get through the depression?
• How long did the post-natal depression last?
• What advice would you give to someone who is struggling to overcome postnatal depression?
• What advice would you give to a spouse/partner/good friend of someone who is experiencing postnatal depression?
• Any advice to a newly expectant mother? 
• Bible verses to meditate on and help spiritual wellbeing.

Marylayo's spiritual wellbeing tip: Meditate on the bible scriptures: John 10:10 and 2 Corinthians 12.9.

Take a moment to delve into what may be 'beyond the smile' - listen in to the conversation.

Guest details: Samantha is a Christian, a wife and mother of two beautiful children.

Connect with MaryLayo:

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For help in dealing with mental health related matters, please seek specialist advice and support if needed.

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Marylayo: Host.

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Marylayo: Welcome to Marylayo Talks, a

podcast that discusses mental health and

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spiritual.

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Wellbeing, before we jump in, there may be

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episodes that are particularly sensitive for

some listeners and if that applies, then I

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hope you'll be able to join me whenever you

feel ready and able.

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Marylayo: Host.

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Marylayo: Today's episode is on postnatal

depression and I'm with guest Samantha Amaki

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he.

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Samantha opens up about her experience of

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being a first time mum not feeling right soon

after the birth of her son and what helped to

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make things shift positively.

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Let's join in the conversation.

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Marylayo: Samantha, you describe yourself as a

wife and mother of two beautiful children and

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I just love that because that's so you.

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You're very positive, very encouraging.

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And I think it's going to be interesting

because when I think of postnatal depression

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and you in terms of your personality, your

character, they don't mix.

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So it's going to be an interesting discussion.

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In your own words, what would you say is

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postnatal depression?

I think people can guess and put two and two

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together, but yeah, just enlighten us.

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Samantha: Well, firstly, thank you so much for

asking me to do this.

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I really appreciate it.

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I never really thought I'm sure I'll expand it

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more, but I remember my mom saying that you

too will be able to tell your story about this

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season.

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When I experience happened and when she was

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saying it, in the midst of it, you're like,

whatever, mummy, I don't even want to hear

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that.

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But to think almost eleven years on to even

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talk now is so powerful.

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But my definition I would say is you have a

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baby.

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And somehow I don't know why the set of

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depression can come over you or can come over

some mums.

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I felt it was very unexpected, something I

never ever thought would happen.

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And it's just this low, really dark period

that just was like a wave.

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I didn't see it happening and it just lingered

and it was a really upsetting time.

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Very, very upset.

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Marylayo: Was this when you had your first

child or your second child?

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First child.

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Samantha: So my beautiful boy, Benjamin, this

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Son was two weeks overdue and it's a long,

long time.

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He's a real mummy boy, so he wanted to stay in

a bit long.

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So you're just anticipating the birth and

what, labor and everything.

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And then finally, oh my gosh, he's here.

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And it's just a euphoria of like you've got

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your baby now so many years ago.

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But I do remember those feelings of just

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giving birth and having your baby and just

looking at your baby, this baby is mine, I'm

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responsible for this baby.

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And that was it.

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It was just literally, okay, just try and

figure out breastfeeding, so on and all of

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that followed.

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Marylayo: So leading up to the birth of your

son, it sounds quite like your experience and

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your feelings were quite normal about the

labor, the birth and having a baby your first.

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Samantha: I was getting impatient because late

July and I always remember my friend saying,

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because my friend and I, we were pregnant at

the same time.

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And I think she gave birth a few weeks

beforehand.

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And she just said, Just be careful of the baby

blue.

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And that just threw me.

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I was like, what are you talking about?

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When you give birth, you never know.

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You can feel a bit blue, a bit down.

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Marylayo: Do you know what made her say that?

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Samantha: No. And that was really random that

she just came out and said that.

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And I'm thinking now, thinking back, maybe she

had gone through something similar but didn't

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really go into detail.

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She was just like, Just be careful, baby.

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No one had.

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Marylayo: And that was that her second

pregnancy?

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Samantha: That was her first pregnancy, yeah.

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So that kind of caught me off guard.

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I didn't expect anybody to say that to me.

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I just brushed off.

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Benjamin came.

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So it was all normal beforehand.

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Marylayo: Sure. So then after the birth of

Benjamin, when did you start feeling that

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something wasn't right?

And what were you feeling that made you think,

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hang on a SEC, this isn't how I should be

feeling?

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Samantha: Yeah, I've been thinking about that

because I remember bringing him home.

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I remember me and Edmund, my husband would

just figure it out, like, he's crying, let's

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feed him.

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He's just in the routine.

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And then I didn't realize how much I love

being outdoors.

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And I felt, okay.

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It's the first couple of days, my mom, she

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came over to help, and I'm thinking, okay, I'm

indoors all day, all night.

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It's summertime, so I was born in August and

I'm indoors.

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I was feeling this kind of claustrophobia kind

of feeling.

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I remember just being in, like, I need to get

out of the house.

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I need to get out of this house and remember

being with my son.

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And the way my mum was with Benjamin was very

different from the way I was.

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My mom was loving and kissing and talking to

him and everything.

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And I was very much feed him.

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Here you go, Mom, I'm done.

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You can take it more mechanical, very

mechanical.

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And she would say, you know, you can talk to

him.

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And I'd be looking at him and thinking, I love

this boy, I love my baby, but I just don't

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feel right.

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And I remember the first week, it was like the

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Saturday after I gave birth.

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That was one of the darkest moments.

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I remember my family came to visit me, and it

feels emotional even just remembering that

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time.

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And I remember holding my son, and I looked at

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Edmund and I just said, I feel like I'm in a

dark hole.

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And I'm thinking.

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I remember just clearly saying that to him.

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I feel like, dark hole.

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And I'm thinking and thinking and thinking.

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And I was freaked out.

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I was absolutely freaked out.

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By that feeling because I kept him thinking,

if I go darker and darker and down further

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down into this hole, I'm going to get into a

very disturbing place.

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And it was like God was saying, it's like you

need to do something, otherwise you're going

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to get into a very dangerous place.

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Marylayo: Even good that you communicated that

to Edmund.

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Samantha: I had to.

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I'm not the type of person who will keep these

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type of things to myself.

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I would always speak up to him as well as my

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sister.

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She knew how I was feeling.

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I was very open about it, very, very open.

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Marylayo: How long did this start place?

How long did it take to come out?

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And was it that conversation, was it you

opening up and sharing that with Edmond that

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changed things?

Would it continue?

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And what was the trigger?

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Samantha: The trigger, I think, was the fact

that I couldn't just get up and go and I even

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say it to new mums, just life is now going to

be very different.

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You can't just get up and go, oh, I'm going to

go out, you have to start planning and things

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so that liberty of not being able to go is

completely taken away.

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I couldn't even talk about that and the whole

change, I didn't realize.

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Sometimes I do struggle with change and this

is a massive change from a couple to now we've

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got a baby and now I can't leave the house as

much as I would want to and it's summertime

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and I just want to be out in fresh air and

I've got now a baby and responsibility.

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So I would say this to Edmond, I would tell my

mum, and I thank God, my mum, she's a retired

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midwife, that she saw the sign in the way I

was acting, the way my mood was, and I clearly

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remember her saying to me, go and lie down.

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And she took Benjamin and she was rain in the

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liver and that was very small, so I could hear

her and I could hear her to help me during

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this period.

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And I just remember just trying to reach out

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to people to say, have you experienced this?

Am I alone in briencing this?

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Is this normal what I'm going through?

And Sabrina, my sister, was trying to connect

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with other mums in church to say, okay, is

this going on?

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Other people, have you other mums experienced

this?

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And it was just some had and some one, I think

she called me and I was so grateful just to

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hear what she's saying, that I didn't feel

like I'm some abnormal woman.

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Because you just want to have somebody who can

understand what you're going through, of

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course, and not feel like a freak or

appreciate your first horn.

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Especially in a typical African culture, you

can be like, no, we quite enjoy this time.

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This is your baby.

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Like, yeah, but I'm struggling as well.

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This is a big deal.

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I'm struggling.

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I don't want to be feeling this way, so I'm

not going to keep this in myself.

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I just need to know if this is other people

felt this as well.

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So it did last probably over a month, probably

a couple of months.

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Yeah.

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But not as intense as what it was when it

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first started off.

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It did, you know, the gradual period, it got

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easier and that darkness.

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Darkness kind of dissaded away, but it wasn't

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immediate.

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It did take some time.

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Marylayo: So when how you've described in

terms of this darkness started fading away, is

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there anything that you can pinpoint to say

that that's when it started to shift, that's

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when things started to change?

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Samantha: Yes, absolutely.

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I believe it was when I was prayerful.

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I was very prayerful in the midst of it.

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Marylayo: Okay.

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Samantha: My mom was extremely supportive.

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Extremely supportive.

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She would come over and stay with me.

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I'd go over to I'd go over to her lathe and

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I'd have a break.

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I believe it's when I realized that I can

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leave the house with my baby.

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When I felt more confident to leave the house

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by myself with Benjamin, because I would be

looking around and I'd be looking for baby

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groups to attend.

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And they would always say things like, oh,

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baby has to be six months plus, oh, my gosh,

are you joking?

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I can wait my baby to be six months old before

I can go to a baby.

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And then all of a sudden I got like a phone

call.

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When you have your baby, you're registered to

so many of the things and they contact.

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They said, we want to come over and see you

and talk to you about what is available.

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I said calm.

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Any visitors?

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I welcome people.

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Like, I love when people would come and visit

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me.

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If I can't go outside and come to me, I will

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welcome you.

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And when they came, it was like there were two

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angels.

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When they said, me, there's a baby group just

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down the road and they take newborn.

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I said, I'm there, I am there.

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And that's all they needed to tell me.

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I said, okay.

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I think I could go that week.

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I said, I'll be dead, Nick.

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And I made sure of it.

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That was the thing I needed to do.

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I needed just get out of the house.

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I needed to be around other people.

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I needed to speak to people and just feel not

even talk about what I was going through, but

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just feel like I'm not in this world because

Edmund would leave home about me and not get

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home till six.

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So it's just like me and the baby, me and the

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baby.

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I'm not used to it.

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It was like this kind of panic attack at times

where it's like, my gosh, I'm at home by

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myself.

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I'm at home by myself with a baby.

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And it was just this.

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I need to get out.

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I need to get out.

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This kind of it was so, so surreal.

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But when I had baby group to go to, oh, gosh,

even if I had to walk out, I would have gone.

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I had to get out and make my way there.

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And that was literally my opening.

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It was like my door out, all.

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Marylayo: That dark, basically, because from

what you were saying, I started to realize

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it's not even just about going out and getting

fresh air.

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It was about going out.

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Going out for a purpose, mixing with people,

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having something in the diary to look forward

to, and just having been around peers who are

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going through exactly the same thing, newborns

and mixing with that.

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Samantha: I mean, I really learned a lot about

myself.

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I didn't realize how much I thrived on being

around other people.

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I've spent many other months and they're like,

oh, no, I was just at home.

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I just loved it.

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Spend me my baby time.

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Yeah.

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And you feel a bit rubbish when.

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Marylayo: They would say that, like, people

are different, aren't they?

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Samantha: Exactly.

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People are so different.

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And I just thought, okay, this is who I am.

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This is what I know what I need.

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And I needed that.

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So that was absolutely fine.

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Yeah.

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Marylayo: So within your second child, your

daughter, did you have any concerns leading up

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to the birth in terms going through that

again?

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Or is it that you felt, you know what, I'm now

more experienced.

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I now know that this is what I need and

therefore this is what I can do.

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Samantha: Exactly that.

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Because I'd made a testimony.

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I remember in church when Benjamin was about

four months off, and so when I was pregnant

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the second time, five years later, people were

like, oh, Samantha be mindful.

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You don't even need to tell me that because

I've been praying already and I know what I

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need to do.

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I knew exactly what I needed to do.

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My daughter, like her brother, was overdue ten

days even that I was prepared for whatever

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would happen.

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And my mom once again came over to help out,

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but I knew what I needed to do.

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And this time around, obviously, my son was in

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primary school, so I had to pick him up.

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That was my outing.

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I knew we had a purpose to leave the house,

and that darkness didn't even exist.

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And I thank the Lord it did not come close to

me because I had learned so much about myself.

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I've been mindful of how I feel.

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If it's sunny outside, I can go out just a

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little bit.

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With the cram, I felt more confident to go out

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a lot more earlier than I did with my son.

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Your newborn a few weeks old, but I thought it

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was a lot different.

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This felt so much more confident, and it was

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never an issue.

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Never an issue.

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Marylayo: You've kind of talked about how you

learned about yourself through that

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experience.

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What tips or advice would you give to

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yourself, to Samantha those years ago?

Do you think you would say something to

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yourself and what would it be?

This could be leading up to or during that

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dark period.

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What would you say to yourself?

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Samantha: I was prayerful.

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I think I would have just trust God, know that

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he would not give you a child and not give you

the strength of it and to take more advantage

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of what your mom was doing.

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Because when you're sleep deprived, that also

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vegs you cool.

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I just had this kind of mission.

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Some people say you're trying to understand my

breastfeeding ball and all of that.

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You feel like you're preparing for a test and

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In the morning.

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My mom would be that I'll go back to bed, I

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need to watch, I need to learn what needs to

be done.

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I don't know why I did that.

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I really don't understand why.

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It was like this panic of my mom's eventually

going to go back to her place and I need to

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know get everything from her before she goes.

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It's like, why was I doing that to myself?

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I even say to if you've got someone helping

you, just give the baby and you go sleep.

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And I was a shock to the system.

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No one told me how sleep deprivation really

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affect you.

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And no one really told me about how your

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hormones can just rage up and down, make your

mood.

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And I think I would have just said, look, go

out for walk.

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Even if you don't go with the baby, you want

to just keep your baby at home, your mum's at

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home, go out for walk, just go walk.

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There's nothing wrong with that.

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I didn't even think about doing that type of

stuff.

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Just to get fresh air, just to be out and

about, go and meet a friend.

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Because I would literally look forward to

going to the doctor.

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I would look forward walking around to the

park because it just meant I could go outside.

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So don't feel guilty about those type of

things.

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You're not bad mom.

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That's what I would tell myself.

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Marylayo: That sounds like good advice that

you could give to someone who's currently

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going through postnatal depression.

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Samantha: Absolutely. My sister and I started

a baby group.

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We had it running for a couple of years and it

was on the premise of we just want months to

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come together and offload and just do what you

want to do, talk, pray, just be there to laugh

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and joke.

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And I've always been very open.

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How you doing?

How things going?

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Are you struggling with anything?

Do you need prayer?

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Do you want us to meet up?

Anything like that?

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Because it was absolute gold when people say

they'd want to come and visit me or if they

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want to meet up with me it was gold.

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And I think it was something I was a bit

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annoyed that I didn't hear much about this

when we were at church, only when I made a

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testimony, and I love our church, but it was

just something that I'd never heard anyone

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talk about before.

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And when I made the testimony had about two,

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three months, four mums come up to me over the

space of months and they were telling me some

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deep, dark things about what they were going

through, things I thought, wow, I was nowhere

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near what they were going through.

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Why not?

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Have we not spoken about this type of stuff?

How can we give these things to ourselves?

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Really messed up kind of things, and thank God

they came out of it.

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Why should it have taken me to give a

testimony?

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Marylayo: But I mean, I can see why.

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Because number one, it's personal.

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Number two, you probably don't even know if

someone out there can help you.

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But some people aren't as open.

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They tend to keep things, or want to, not so

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comfortable sharing what they're going

through.

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With others.

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It sounds more hidden.

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Samantha: It is.

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Exactly.

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And even speak to a health, difficult or

midwife and they come and do their checks.

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You just feel like, I don't want social

services to get involved and I don't want to

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know what's going on.

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So you do keep strong.

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You don't want anyone outside your media

family, should I say, to know what's going on?

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And I remember one mom said she kept it right

from her family for about nine months or six

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months or something.

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Oh, my goodness me, I was so shocked.

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But I can understand why.

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Were you just like, expected as a new mom to

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get on with it?

Baby needs to be changed.

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The way the media portrays it, it's not always

as glamorous as what it looks.

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It doesn't look glamorous.

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Marylayo: It's a blessed experience.

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Samantha: Absolutely.

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Marylayo: Like, one of the things you

mentioned was how you looked forward to visit,

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meeting with friends, which is surprising to

me because when I think of someone who's just

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given birth and with a newborn, I think, oh my

gosh, baby crying, changing nappies, the

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feeds, the house is a mess.

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I would give them as much space as I can

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because I don't think that person would want

me to be there, given that there's so many

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things going on and they're trying to get to

grips with it and they're sleep deprived, so

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why would they need a visitor?

So it's interesting what you're saying.

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Samantha: I do that.

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I even think that I reminded myself that well,

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I remember thinking all the baby does is just

sleep.

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Imagine your baby, you feed your baby, you

change your baby.

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She just sleeps.

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So I can't play with him when he's awake.

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But he said when he's newborn, newborn, he's

just sleeping.

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So I've got time.

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So I was fine.

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I know people were like, oh, give her some

space and give her some time.

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And I know as a new mom, I'm sure some people

would have said that and do say that, but for

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me, I was receiving visitors in the first week

and I did not care.

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I was like, Please come and see me.

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Yeah, I'm here.

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Yes.

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It just felt like the outside world was coming

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into my house.

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Marylayo: I get that, yeah.

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Samantha: I was more than happy to receive

visitors, even when I had my daughter.

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I a couple of weeks, come on board.

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I do not mind.

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I do not mind at all, if you don't mind me

breastfeeding.

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Sit and chat and enjoy.

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Marylayo: One of the things you mentioned was

about how much your mom was a support you

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shared with Edmund.

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Your sister helped calling people.

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I was thinking about how it can be very

difficult if someone's going through a dark

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period.

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How can you help?

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How can you support someone?

How can you lift them?

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How can you be there for them?

And you've kind of touched on this in terms of

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your mum praying and you sharing with Edmonds,

your sister calling, and you've even mentioned

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about how you and your sister, you started

this mums and baby group.

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What advice would you give to, let's just say,

a spouse, a partner, a good friend, a family

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member of someone who's actually experiencing

postnatal depression?

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What would you say to them so that they don't

feel helpless, although they want to help that

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person?

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Samantha: I think just knowing that I can just

talk and be real with my husband, with my mom,

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with my sister, and then being able to sit and

listen and not say anything like, well, you're

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being silly, I just need to let you know

what's going on in my head.

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Just having that, having my husband there,

having my mum there.

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I mean, I get emotional thinking about it

because I think if they tried to silence me, I

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think that would have just made things even

worse.

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And it was very hard because I know my sister

and my husband were like, those are two who

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really, really know me.

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And it was hard for them to see me like that.

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It was very all I needed was just to talk.

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I've been down low and I thank God for my mom

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because she was praying, she was rain.

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I know Edmund was rain.

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My sister, I remember she sent me scriptures,

put them somewhere, scriptures printed out on

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card of encouraging scriptures for me to

declare somewhere for me to read, so that I'm

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constantly filled with the word of God, even

if I wasn't feeling it at that moment, but

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just to keep and declare over myself.

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And I remember her doing that and it just was

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not kind of like, hurry up and get through

this mentality, like, oh, why are you still

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feeling like this?

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Marylayo: Just listen.

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Samantha: And I know for me.

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I love to talk.

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I do love to talk, and all I ask is for people

to listen.

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And with the fact that they could listen to me

was just gold.

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Anybody who's going through that if they've

got someone who they can just be real, not put

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this pretend smile on and pretend that

everything's okay.

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I'm okay, I'm okay.

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When you know deep down you're being really

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rubbish, just talk about it and have someone

to pray with you or just be there at the other

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end of the phone and someone who's actually

been there through it as well.

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So you don't feel like, am I the only person

around me?

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Because it's ascertain early I was literally

looking like I would speak to this person.

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I never went through that brilliance.

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And when I finally found someone, he said,

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yeah, I feel alone in this.

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That makes a big difference.

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Marylayo: You mentioned how when you were

pregnant, a good friend mentioned to you, be

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careful about the or be mindful about the baby

blues.

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If there was any advice that you could give to

someone, particularly a newly expectant

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mother, what would it be like?

What would you say that may help them to be

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more prepared or be helpful, given that they

may not experience postnatal depression?

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But is there anything that you think you could

give to someone that's expectant?

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Samantha: I would say to them, do not push

away support.

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If someone is saying, Can I help you?

Even if you are a couple, it's you and your

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spouse and the child irrespective.

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If someone's saying, okay, let me help you

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out, help you with the baby, or help you with

at least you feel you've got some time to

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yourself or some time with the baby or some

time just to go out.

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But then also it's saying to a new mom, it's

knowing what you know are your strengths and

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what your personality type is.

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I know my personality type now was being

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around people, but I didn't realize how that

would affect me.

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And probably telling them that, look, be

mindful, you might not leave the house, your

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place for a good couple of weeks, but put

things in place where you can potentially feel

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like you're not alone and isolated.

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This mindset of, oh, I don't want to disturb

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this mum, she's going through this.

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I think also because Edmund paternity leave

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was pretty short.

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So you can feel very alone and very isolated.

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You can feel that it's a lot by yourself, but

that's not the case.

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It's just surrounding yourself and as many

people as possible, if you can do so

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brilliant.

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Marylayo: On that note, we've ended with you

being encouraging, which is the Samantha I

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know.

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So thanks for sharing and being so open with

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your experience.

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I'm sure many people are going to really learn

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and be encouraged by that sharing.

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And if you're listening, thank you for joining

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me on Marylayo Talks.

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Hope to see you next time.

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Marylayo: Here's a couple of spiritual

wellness tips that you can meditate on.

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The first is John, chapter ten, verse ten, and

it reads the thief comes only to steal and

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kill and destroy.

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I have come that they may have life and have

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it to the fore.

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The second is two Corinthians, chapter twelve,

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verse nine, which reads each time he said, my

grace is all you need.

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My power works best in weakness.

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Marylayo: Host.

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Marylayo: Thank you for listening.

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Do follow and join me again next time on Mary

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layo Talks Beyond the Smile.