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Art Crawl: Revolutionising infant engagement with art at the Clyfford Still Museum
Episode 14123rd January 2025 • The Art Engager • Claire Bown
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In this episode host Claire Bown talks with Nicole Cromartie, Director of Learning and Engagement, and Paris Baker, Family, Early Childhood and Community Engagement Manager at the Clyfford Still Museum in Denver.

Inspired by Nicole's experience with her baby niece 13 years ago, the Clyfford Still Museum has pioneered innovative ways to engage infants with art, including their groundbreaking 2022 exhibition 'Clyfford Still Art and the Young Mind' and Art Crawl, a monthly programme for infants and caregivers to explore art together through multi-sensory experiences.

Listen in as Nicole and Paris share insights about their Reggio Emilia-inspired approach, the impact on families and caregivers, and how the program is now expanding beyond museum walls into community spaces. Learn about their successful strategies for creating welcoming environments for the youngest visitors, from professional development across departments to thoughtful program design.

If you're interested in early childhood engagement in museums, creating inclusive spaces for young families, or exploring innovative approaches to art education, this episode offers valuable insights and practical recommendations for implementing similar programs.

Want to learn more? Visit clyffordstillmuseum.org or email learning@clyffordstillmuseum.org

The Art Engager is written and presented by Claire Bown. Editing is by Matt Jacobs and Claire Bown. Music by Richard Bown. Support the show on Patreon.

Episode Links

Instagram: @still_museum

Email: learning@clyffordstillmuseum.org

CSM's website and Art Crawl's page

AAM article 

Here are some of the videos that we referenced in our conversation

Art Crawl video

Art Crawl "Know Before You Go" video 

Infant Curation video

New York Times article featuring Art Crawl 

https://www.linkedin.com/in/nicole-cromartie-31b19024/

https://www.linkedin.com/in/paris-baker-74b71620a/

Links

The Art Engager: Reimagining Guided Experiences in Museums‘ is now available worldwide through your favourite online platforms and retailers. Buy it here on Amazon.com: https://tinyurl.com/buytheartengager

The Art Engager book websitehttps://www.theartengager.com/

Support the show with a simple monthly subscription on Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/c/TheArtEngager

Transcripts

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Hello and welcome to a new episode of The Art Engager and

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our very first episode of 2025.

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Happy New Year.

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Today I'm chatting with Nicole Cromartie and Paris Baker from the

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Clyfford Still Museum in Denver.

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Nicole and Paris are exploring how infants experience and

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engage with art in museum spaces.

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But before I chat, if you haven't already, do check out our last episode, episode

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140, 140, where Nikki McIntosh shares how museums can better support children

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who struggle with school attendance.

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And if questioning techniques interest you, episode 136 and 137 explore key

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concepts from my book, The Art Engager.

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Perfect companions to today's conversation about early childhood engagement.

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Speaking of which, if you're enjoying the book, I'd love your support.

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Please consider leaving a review on Amazon or Goodreads or sharing a

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photo of your copy on social media.

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And don't forget to tag me.

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I love to see The Art Engager out and about in the world.

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Now, let me introduce today's guests.

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Nicole Cromertie is the Director of Learning and Engagement at the Clyfford

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Still Museum in Denver, Colorado.

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Nicole's journey into infant engagement began 13 years ago when she took her

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baby niece to an art museum and was amazed to see her making eye contact with

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portraits and squealing at sculptures.

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That experience sparked her interest in understanding how

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young minds engage with art.

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Her 2021 book, Evaluating Early Learning, Planning for Our Youngest Visitors,

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has become a valuable resource for museum professionals, and Nicole will

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be continuing this research as a Getty Museum guest scholar this spring.

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Joining Nicole is Paris Baker, the Family, Early Childhood and Community Engagement

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Manager at the Clyfford Still Museum.

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Paris brings a Reggio Emilia inspired approach to her work,

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viewing children as valuable contributors to their own learning.

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Her recent article in the American Alliance of Museums blog, Art Crawl,

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Designing a Museum Program for Infants, shares insights from their innovative

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work with their youngest visitors.

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So in this episode we'll be hearing about their 2022 exhibition 'Clyfford Still Art

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and the Young Mind', where infants help select artworks for the gallery spaces.

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This led to Art Crawl, a regular program where infants and caregivers explore

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art together through multi sensory experiences in the museum galleries.

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We explore their Reggio Emilia inspired approach, the impact on families and

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caregivers, and how other museums are now adopting this groundbreaking work.

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Nicole and Paris's enthusiasm for art crawl is infectious.

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You'll be amazed by what babies can teach us about art and inspired

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to create welcoming spaces for our youngest visitors, whatever

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type of museum you work in.

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Enjoy.

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So, hello, Nicole and Paris, welcome to the Art Engager Podcast.

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Thank you so much for having us.

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We're really excited to chat with you today.

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So could you both introduce yourselves and tell us about your roles at the museum?

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Who'd like to go first?

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I could start.

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I have served as the Director of Learning and Engagement at CSM for about six years.

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And so I oversee our entire department and we oversee all kinds of different

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initiatives and activities in the museum, including interpretation,

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public programs, school programs, community engagement, family and early

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childhood evaluation, all the fun things in museum practice, in my opinion.

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And I conceptualized our art crawl program during the development of an

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exhibition that we co curated with young children, including infants.

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So we'll get on to that in a moment.

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And Paris, would you like to introduce yourself?

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Absolutely.

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My name is Paris Baker.

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I am the Family Early Childhood and Community Engagement Manager at the

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Clyfford Still Museum which means I directly manage the Art Crawl

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program and its facilitation at our museum and its expansion into the

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community is a huge focus of my work.

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Brilliant.

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So welcome to you both.

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I'm delighted you could be here.

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Perhaps for our listeners worldwide who might not be familiar with your

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museum, could you tell us a little bit about the Clyfford Still Museum?

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Absolutely.

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It's always exciting to share about this really special place.

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Clyfford Still, if you aren't familiar is considered one of the most

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important painters of the 20th century.

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He was among the first generation of abstract expressionist artists.

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And had a really particular vision for his career and his work.

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So in his will, he entrusted 93 percent of everything he ever created to

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an American city who was willing to establish a museum dedicated exclusively

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to the care and display of his art.

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In 2004, Clyfford Still's widow, Patricia, chose Denver, Colorado, which is where

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we're based, to receive the collection, and the museum opened in November of 2011.

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So we're still a relatively young museum.

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Throughout our first decade, we were really dedicated to reintroducing

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the world to Clyfford Still's art, which had not been on display or

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exhibition since his death in 1980.

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But now We're really embarking on our second decade with CSM really focusing

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on becoming really accessible and inclusive community centric resource.

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Fantastic.

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What a brilliant story to start us with.

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So I've invited you here today to talk about your work with

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a very specific audience.

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Infants from birth to 14 months.

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So what made you want to work with this particular age group?

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Oh my gosh.

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Do you want the long story or the short story, Claire?

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Where should we start?

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Yes, it's true.

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I, myself, I had sort of a personal and professional awakening to the capabilities

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of infants and their interest in art when my niece was born about 13 years ago now.

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I took her to the art museum that I grew up going to in Jacksonville,

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Florida, and I was blown away by her response to the paintings.

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She was making eye contact with the portraits.

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She was squealing at three dimensional sculptures.

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I mean, she was having an experience.

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And at that moment, I knew I wanted to spend the rest of my career understanding

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what was going on inside of her head as a part of that experience.

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So Ever since that day, I have been really focused on really understanding

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how our young minds work what are the aesthetic preferences of very young

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children, including infants, and what really are the ways that we can Bring

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them into the museum, not only as, you know, more passive audience members,

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but really active contributors to help us better understand not only

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their needs, but also our collection.

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So, I understand Art Crawl grew out of an exhibition, and it was quite a

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groundbreaking exhibition, wasn't it?

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So, from what I've read, you had pre verbal infants curating

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part of the gallery space.

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Could you tell us about 'Clyfford Still Art and the Young Mind'?

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Absolutely.

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So this initiative really kicked off in 2019 when I started at the museum and we

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started exploring opportunities to engage young children and talked about a lot

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of different ways that we could do that.

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We could involve young children in our practices and we ended up, I proposed

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that we do an exhibition that would be co curated with very young children.

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And the way that we think about young children in the United States

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mostly is birth to age eight.

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And I felt like it was such a great opportunity to take a look at our

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collection and Clyfford Stills art.

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and have them choose the works that were going on view, provide their

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perspectives for the wall text and the audio guides, really center their

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perspectives in the gallery space.

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There is a little bit of research around aesthetic preference in very

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young children, but the opportunity to understand the aesthetic

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preferences of children in our own community with our own collection

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was just an incredible opportunity.

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So we worked with over, 100 children and across the Front Range, which is

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sort of our urban region around Denver to select all of the artwork for

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the show and provide interpretation.

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We focused one full gallery of this exhibition on with infants.

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So basically my collaborator and I, Bailey Placzek, pulled about 20 of

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Clyfford Still's most high contrast painting, which is a thing that I think

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is pretty familiar to a lot of people, that babies prefer high contrast images

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like bright black, white and red.

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And we worked with them remotely because it was during the pandemic.

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So just like we're in Zoom right now, we were working with our co curator infants

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in their schools and their teachers would present small reproductions of these

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high contrast works by Clyfford Still.

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And then we saw the children's reaction.

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We logged them And those were the works that went on view.

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And it was just an incredibly powerful experience, because, you

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know, like I said, based on what we know about aesthetic preference,

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we had a feeling they might be interested in what we were presenting.

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But it was so much more than that.

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I mean, they were squealing, their eyes lit up, they were grabbing for them.

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They were having a real aesthetic experience.

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They were really excited about these reproductions.

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So, I was just like, how can we not have this be more central to the

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work that we're doing in learning and engagement at the museum?

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It's a real missed opportunity.

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And at the same time, this was during the pandemic.

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We were hearing from a lot of caregivers with young children about

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the isolation they were experiencing, the loss of community that so many

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people experienced across the globe.

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And that really was kind of the formation of the Art Crawl program to really build

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on the research that we'd done with our co curators during the exhibition and

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also in response to what we were hearing from grown ups in our community as well.

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And there's a fantastic video, isn't there, I watched it this afternoon,

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you can watch the infants, choosing, selecting these artworks and you can

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see their excitement as you describe there when they're either grabbing an

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artwork out of the caregiver's hand or they're verbally stating their preference

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for it or pointing at something.

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And it's super exciting to see.

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It's also quite Fascinating to see given what you say about, infants, expressing

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an aesthetic preference for something.

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Was there any skepticism around this exhibition before you started?

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Oh, absolutely.

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And I think it's societal, right?

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It's how we think about the capacities of infants.

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We have a long way to go for people to understand just how incredible infants

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are and what they're capable of.

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So, yes, we had skepticism internally and externally.

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We did a lot of work with professional development to learn

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a little bit more about infants and their caregivers, young families.

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There was a lot of skepticism.

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And the other part was, Oh, this is so cute.

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Both of those perspectives are really, really tough for us.

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But one of the most powerful things, actually, was the

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video that you just described.

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when we shared our research videos, our time with our co curators with both

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internal and external stakeholders, we saw the light bulb go off almost

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every time of just like, 'Oh yes, they, they actually are making choices'.

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Like the act of actually seeing that documentation was so powerful.

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So I think that actually was.

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One of the most important tools during the development to get people on board.

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So much so that we included it in the high contrast gallery because

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we still had people going in there saying, infants curated this.

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So you were actually able to see the infants making choices in that

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space, which was really incredible.

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And so we launched the Art Crawl program in March of 2022 when we opened

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the exhibition in response to what we'd been seeing with the infants and

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the needs expressed by caregivers.

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I mean, also our staff, there was just such a sense of joy and that work

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during what was a really hard time for everyone working with the infants

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and seeing their eyes light up and the kinds of expressions and responses

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that they had to the paintings.

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It's a reminder of the power of art.

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It's a reminder of how we can experience art in this really joyful, open way.

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So I think it was an easy sell to the learning and engagement team

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to start working with infants and caregivers and the Art Crawl program,

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really intentionally inviting them into the museum every month for

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new experiences with the artwork.

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Yeah, so could you walk us through what happens in a typical session?

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I understand you start in your making space room and then

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you move into the gallery.

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So perhaps you could tell us and the listeners what you do.

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Yes, absolutely.

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So like you mentioned, we begin in our hands on creative art making

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studio called The Making Space.

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It's located directly off of our galleries.

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And we really begin in that space for community building.

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We take that time to, to gather, to settle in together.

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We like to say that we operate on baby time because we understand what it

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might take for someone to get themselves and their infant, not only to our

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museum, but also just to our program.

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And so we really hold that first beginning open time just with some flexibility

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to really honor people and their experiences in getting to Art Crawl.

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We also take that time, our educators get to share what people

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can expect with their time with us what our theme is for the day.

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Usually we see a lot of socialization during this time too, so caregivers

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and infants alike regardless of if you came with someone or you know

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anything about the program we just like to take that time to really connect

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and allow people to feel comfortable.

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So that's kind of how we open the program.

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Then, like you said, we go into the galleries.

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There are always two gallery stops and in both of those we introduce a lot

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of Multisensory materials for infants to explore, we encourage caregivers

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to introduce new vocabulary around the art to their infant that are

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always kind of connected to this theme that we have and then we really let.

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That time be a time for caregivers to practice the skills that we've,

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we've offered or the vocabulary that we've introduced we encourage them

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to really let it be child led so that they are noticing what their infant is

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noticing while they're in the galleries.

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But really that time is for.

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being immersed in this beautiful collection of art together

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and talking about it and experiencing it all as a group.

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So that is kind of what Art Crawl looks like in its structure.

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And you mentioned you have themes there, and my eye was caught by a couple of

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your themes My favorite, Guardian of the Galleries, I thought, excellent title.

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how did you develop these different ideas for the workshops?

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Yeah Artcrawl has always centered collaboration not only in its

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facilitation, but also in its development.

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So a lot of our themes were written collaboratively with other departments at

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our museum or with our community partners.

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So like you mentioned, Guardians of the Galleries was written in

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collaboration with our collections team.

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It really focuses on the exploration of conservation practices at the

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museum and allows for infants to explore cause and effect.

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Similarly, our collections team also contributed to the development of one

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called the ABCs of Curating that focuses on that aesthetic preference, like Nicole

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mentioned before, that we see in infants.

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So those are some of our themes that we've developed with our

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kind of internal departments.

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And then we've also collaborated with some external community partners.

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For example, Denver Public Libraries, their early learning

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team collaborated with us.

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on the creation of a theme called art and reading.

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And it really discusses the connections between engaging with art and

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supporting early literacy development.

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So a lot of our themes are are created alongside people.

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Brilliant.

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And I, I understand that the the sessions are influenced by Reggio Emilia.

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Could you explain a little bit about what Reggio Emilia is and

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how this shapes what you do.

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Yes, absolutely.

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This is my favorite thing to talk about.

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The Reggio Emilia approach is really foundational to all of our programming

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at the Clyfford Still Museum.

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It impacts the ways in which we view children, and educators, and caregivers.

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It impacts the materials that we choose, and the environmental setups that we

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bring into our galleries and also our language that we use with children.

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It influences so many different aspects of our work, but I would

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say that most importantly the Reggio Emilia approach influences our

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image of the child at the museum.

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So we believe that children are valuable contributors to their own learning and

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to our community and the museum broadly.

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And we get to value the many ways that children engage and learn

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and we then get the opportunity to learn from and alongside them.

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And so that strong image of the child really allows for our programming

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to be informed by the experiences and the learning that we see

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constantly happening in our galleries.

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And so would you say this program is centered around the infant or

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around the infant and the caregiver?

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Is there a balance between the two?

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Yes, absolutely.

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I mean, It's a great question because Art Crawl was designed for infants

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and for the caregivers and so that balance is really important for us to

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find, and we, so we try to encourage caregivers to really lean into their

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child's curiosity and to notice what they're noticing throughout the program

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and this honors infants experiences in our galleries and also allows for

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caregivers to see and engage with the artwork through the eyes of the child

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and we really see that that awareness leads to a really deep and meaningful

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way of being together in the galleries.

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And so both experiences and perspectives are so important to Art Crawl.

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And we really try to honor both sides of that through the ways that we teach and

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the environments that we set up and even the timing structure of our programming,

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all of it is really intentional and all of it has both of those components

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in mind, the caregiver and the infant.

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And for those caregivers particularly those who may be a little apprehensive

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about bringing their infant to a museum environment, or who have not

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participated in a program like this before, how do you set them up so that

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when they walk through the door they're feeling confident and comfortable?

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That's a great question.

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We actually have heard through our longitudinal study that we've been doing,

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that people have experienced some of those hesitations and those anxieties

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because it can be an intimidating thing to do something with your infant.

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And for many people, this is their first experience doing something with their

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infant whether or not that's just at a museum or out in public in general.

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And so we really see that.

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That it takes a lot, or it can take a lot for people to get to us, and so

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we have created a video called 'Know Before You Go' that's available on

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our website that just really talks through a lot of the logistics that

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you might you might need to know.

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Before showing up, it's where to park.

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It's how to get to our space.

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It's what to bring.

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It lets you know that you can breast or bottle feed

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anywhere on our gallery floors.

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All of the things that you might have questions about, we try

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to address through that video.

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So that people can come in with a Just a little bit more of an understanding

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of what they might experience.

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And then we also take that time, like I mentioned, in the making space to really

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set up and foreshadow what the experience will be like inside of the program.

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And just let them know what the structure will be like.

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So people have an idea of what will be happening.

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And we also take that time to really reassure people that we're here for the

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full human experience in our galleries.

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we don't mind the crying, we don't mind the laughter, we don't mind the noise.

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We want it all we see a lot of value in all of that human expression.

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So we try to really just reassure people that, that we're here for all of it.

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We're ready for all of it and, and we want them with us.

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I think that's really wonderful.

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So that when people do turn up, they're feeling relaxed and happy.

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And do you get people who come back regularly?

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Do you have regulars or do you find it's kind of one off or how does it work?

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We definitely see a mix of both.

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We, we do have a lot of families that return though month after month,

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which is really exciting because our educators then get to build

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these relationships with people.

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We see, we see a lot of infants growing over the time that they spend with us.

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And we also see some of the caregivers get to know each other in the context of

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this program, which is really special.

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So we see all of the above, but we we love when we really get to

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build relationships with people.

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Absolutely.

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And mentioned there about evaluating, so things that have come out

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from your follow up research.

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So can you tell me a little bit about the impact this program has had so far?

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Yeah, it's been really incredible to hear from the caregivers who

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experience Art Crawl in the museum.

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through our longitudinal evaluation with trainer evaluation.

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Trainer evaluation has been doing individual interviews with caregivers

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who participated in the program to better understand their perspectives,

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their experiences, their emotions that they have experiencing the program

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and also what they see as the impact.

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What is the drive to go to an infant program at a museum space?

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So we really have gained a deeper understanding and insight of caregivers

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needs, emotional experiences, and all of that information has already had a direct

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impact on how we run the program, how we're talking to our museum educators.

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So.

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It's, it's been an incredible process.

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I think one of the big things that stood out to all of us was the real

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emotional responses that caregivers shared so generously and so openly with

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our evaluators about what it takes to get to a museum with their young infant.

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As Paris sort of alluded to, there are some people, a lot of people, have never

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been to a museum with their infant.

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Some have never been to a museum at all.

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And it is the Art Crawl program, intentional invitation that led

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them to this program and attending this program at the museum, which

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is just really incredible to hear.

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Essentially, all of our caregivers are incredibly brave and willing to take

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risks, to have a really meaningful experience with their very young child,

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even if they're afraid of having a blowout, afraid of, you know, messing

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up the nap time because they have, they live an hour away from the museum.

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I mean, all of these different conditions were really surprising to us and to

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really get an understanding of what a need there is for more infant programming

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in our community and, and others.

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Yeah, and you've clearly put such a lot of thought into how this program

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works for young visitors, and I'm sure people listening would be

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interested to hear what are the key things that they need to consider

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if they're interested in designing programs for this particular audience.

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Yeah, I think that's such a great question because I know both Paris and I are

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really excited about supporting other museums and working with these audiences.

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So thank you for asking that.

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I think that welcoming and accessible environment is huge.

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We do not have a perfect space for families.

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We'd love to have, you know, an infant feeding room.

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There are so many amenities on our dream wish list.

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but it's really making it work and saying, you know, you are welcome here.

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We want you here.

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Here's where you can breast and bottle feed.

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Here's where you can put your stroller.

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We've thought of all of the things that you're thinking about and you're

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worried about and you have questions about and we want to front load all of

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this with that information to put you at ease so you can really have this

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incredible experience with your child.

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Yeah, I would also add just the simplicity in the energy that people are bringing

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to to the museum and to a program.

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So I think that like Nicole mentioned, there's a, an element of addressing the

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logistics for people and really making or offering kind of some comfortability

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and in knowing that and being able to predict what that will be like.

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But it's also a lot About the interactions that they have with people at the museum.

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It's it's walking into the door and interacting with

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our visitor team right away.

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it's the energy and the excitement that the educators bring so much

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of that also really contributes to creating a welcoming environment.

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And like Nicole said, really just directly calling out that we want them there.

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All of that contributes to helping people just ease in and

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feel like they can be with us.

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And what about for making the case across departments in your organization?

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Say it might be educators listening to this, thinking that they may

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have to put a case together to convince other departments within

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the museum that this is, this is a good option for their organization.

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That's also a great question.

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That was something that back in 2019, we started working on and having these

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cross departmental conversations, professional development opportunities

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for better understanding infants and their development, and the connections

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between art and our collection explicitly.

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That was really powerful, I think, Them being able to see some of the

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programming, being able to observe infants, even if it's in a different

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space or, you know, we had this ready to go video to share with people.

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and also There's so much conversation about how museums can remain

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relevant to their communities.

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How can we serve the full diversity of the communities in which museum

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infants and young families are a huge part of that population.

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And so when we're talking about diversity and inclusion, we should also be talking

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about very young Children who have also been excluded from museums for a very

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long time for lots of different reasons.

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So I think that thinking about inclusion and young families is huge.

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Another thing and this will appeal to maybe different folks in your museum,

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but another thing that we've learned through our longitudinal evaluation of

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the Art Crawl program is that some of the, caregivers and families who are not

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necessarily identifying as museum goers or, going to a lot of museums they've

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said they found the museum Through the Art Crawl program, and now they're

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just going to stay here because they know it's welcoming to their family,

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they start to get comfortable with the staff, with the collection, they learn

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to talk about art with their children at this museum, their infant may have

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created their first work of art at the Clyfford Still Museum, which is like just

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this incredible honor to be a part of.

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And so they want to stick with us.

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They said in their evaluation, they're not interested in looking for other museums.

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They really want to stick with us.

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So the idea of capturing this museum visitor at such a young age

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and being a part of their lives is truly, truly an incredible thing.

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And starting at such a young age, I think would appeal to a lot of museums.

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and I can imagine some people listening are thinking about the logistics

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of what happens in the galleries.

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So.

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Again, how do you set yourself up for success in a gallery where you

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may have infants who are moving around who are exploring the space

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in all the ways that infants do?

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How do you set up the space for success?

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We really are intentional in our environmental setups in the

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galleries but we also encourage the many ways that children will

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engage and we expect them to engage.

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We want them to engage in the materials and with the artwork.

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So a lot of it is about the environmental setup and being really intentional

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and in what you're providing people to interact with, but it's also in

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preparing the caregivers and the educators that will be in that space

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to to really honor the ways that people are going to explore the space.

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And what happens when mishaps happen?

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So how do you set it up so that if something does happen with a child,

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how do you cope for the unexpected?

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A lot of work with children seems to be unexpected or can be unexpected.

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And we, first of all, want to, like, reiterate to the caregivers that, that

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we are ready for all of it so that they feel comfortable if something happens and

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they aren't having an anxious reaction.

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But a lot of it is is the way that we react.

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We definitely want to make sure that we're responsive to people before anything else,

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and we want to make sure that they walk away from our experience feeling like they

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had a, a beautiful and a wonderful and an immersive time with this body of work.

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And so the ways in which we respond, I think, are, are huge to recovering

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moments that can be unexpected.

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But we also really are.

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intentional in talking through the lesson setups and the materials.

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We really are ready for as much as you can be for the unexpected, but

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we more than anything are ready to respond to it in a way that is, is

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people- centered and really kind of allows for people to not feel alone.

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That anxiety that can happen with those unexpected moments.

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And does that involve a certain amount of training for the team as well in

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designing and facilitating these programs?

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Absolutely.

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We have a lot of professional development that centers work with children,

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obviously, for our educator team.

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We also have done professional development with our security team, with our visitor

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team, all of the people that interact with and contribute to this program and

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to young children being in our museum.

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Which is our whole staff has kind of experienced this professional

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development around, around what that looks like to interact with and

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support children in the galleries.

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I'm going to move on to talk about I understand you're now taking

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Artcrawl beyond the museum walls.

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So could you tell us a little bit about new developments, things

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are happening with communities?

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Absolutely.

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We are very excited to have the opportunity to take Art Crawl into

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different community locations.

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As Nicole mentioned earlier, Art Crawl was originally founded in response to just

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a lack of arts programming for infants as well as that need for connection and

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community that we heard from caregivers.

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And we saw through our work curating with infants for Clyfford Still Art and the

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Young Mind that they had such valuable insight and that Still's work was really

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just a perfect catalyst for engaging infants in those early arts experiences.

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And so as we entered the second year of our crawl's existence, we Also started to

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hear from other organizations around the Denver area that they were having such a

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difficult time finding programming that was designed specifically for infants and

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also specifically for arts experiences.

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And so We, and we also knew that there was, that there are a certain amount

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of barriers to getting to our museum in general, getting to our programming and so

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in order to address kind of both of those challenges we applied for a grant from

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the Institute Museum and library services to create a mobile version of art crawl.

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In 2023, we were awarded the grant and we've been in the process of developing

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this new iteration of our programming.

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And throughout that process, we've collaborated with.

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Many community partners on the development of the program.

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And we are now offering art crawl at Denver Public

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Library branches once a month.

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And we'll continue to do so.

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We also will continue to evaluate the programming at the museum as well as in

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the community to ensure that we're being.

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Supportive and responsive to everyone that we're engaging with.

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And the goal there is just to make Art Crawl more accessible because we really

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believe that all infants have the right to those beautiful learning experiences.

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I'm going to ask you a few questions to wrap up because we are almost at time.

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But if you could look back over the last few years, what's

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been the most rewarding part of developing and running this program?

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I think one of the most rewarding parts of this experience has really been

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getting to see the joy from infants and caregivers and educators and everyone

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that is involved in this program.

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We hear a lot of responses about a lot of emotions that people experience.

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In, in getting ready for the, their experience at the museum and in coming

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to us and being present in our galleries, there are a lot of emotions that come

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up but the overwhelming one that we hear about is, is just a sense of joy and

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of wonder and getting to share a really special experience with your infant.

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And so hearing those responses As an advocate for really young children

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and for people being in our space and getting to contribute to our

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museum culture and community, that is a really beautiful thing to hear.

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And so that has been one of my most rewarding experiences.

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Thanks, Paris.

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Nicole, do you have anything to add?

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I

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love that.

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Yes, everything that Paris said.

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And I think for me I never envisioned this program going

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outside of the museum's walls.

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We've also now started to license the program.

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We've had interest from museums across the country and actually worldwide now

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about actually facilitating Art Crawl and bringing Art Crawl to their museums.

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And so, in addition to the work that Paris has been doing with Art Crawl and our

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community, we also now have a licensing program where museums anywhere can bring

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The joy of art crawl to their museums.

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We recently just did some work with the Montgomery Museum of Fine Arts in Alabama.

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They now have their own Art Crawl program with support of me in Paris and CSM.

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So that's been incredible thing to see how this is spreading and

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how people are seeing the need for this and infants rights to arts

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experiences and museum spaces.

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So yeah, that's been an incredibly rewarding thing to see.

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How wonderful.

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So if people want to find out more about the program or get in touch

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with you, What's the best place to go?

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theclyffordstillmuseum.Org website.

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We have a page dedicated to the Art Crawl program.

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Some of the videos we referenced are on there.

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And you can always reach out to learning at Clyffordstillmuseum.

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org with any direct questions about the program, about licensing, advice,

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around bringing infants into your space.

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Hopefully you can tell this is me and Paris's favorite thing to talk about.

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So very happy to get in touch with other educators from around the world.

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Brilliant.

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So thank you so much for sharing the story of Art Crawl today.

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Thank you, Nicole and Paris for being on the podcast.

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Thank you so much

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for having us.

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Yeah, this was a lot of fun.

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So a huge thank you to Nicole and Paris for sharing their insights with us today.

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Be sure to check out the show notes for more information about Artcrawl and

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their work at the Clyfford Still Museum.

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If you've enjoyed this episode, or if any episode in our back catalogue

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has resonated with you, please consider supporting the Art Engager.

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You can now join us on Patreon with a simple monthly subscription

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to help keep this content coming.

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Thank you to all our new supporters.

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Your generosity makes a difference.

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Finally, don't forget to visit my website to learn more about the Art Engager book,

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available now wherever books are sold.

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That's it for our first episode of 2025.

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Thank you so much for joining us.

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See you next time.

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Bye.

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