In this episode of The Build Up Podcast, Lee Fuller — a bricklayer of 21 years turned marketer and founder of Level Up Media (Trade Accelerator) — explains why almost everything tradespeople are being sold about lead generation has it backwards. He tells the story of building Thames Valley Brickwork from a standing start to £3 million of enquiries in year one on organic LinkedIn alone, with no paid ads, and how an accidental detour through film school and content-led marketing turned into a full-blown agency almost by accident. What sets Lee apart is his starting point: he’s a tradesman who learned marketing, not a marketer trying to learn construction — and he argues that difference is the whole game.

Lee makes the case that leads come at the very end of the process, not the start — and that turning the taps on before a business has its messaging, positioning and sales process sorted is the fastest way to lose money and torch a reputation. He’s blunt about the two things trades get wrong (starting with talking about themselves — "no one cares until they care"), why every marketing campaign needs a villain, and why you should phone the clients who nearly bought and didn’t. Along the way he covers speed to lead and video sales letters, the fixed money mindset that has owners scoffing at a £12 CRM while chasing another £600k in revenue, and a contractor who fixed his messaging, added a few systems and walked into a seven-figure exit. It’s a refreshing, no-nonsense counter to the "get you leads" agencies flooding every tradesperson’s feed — and a reminder that the real work is knowing what you’re actually trying to build.

Follow Lee Fuller / Level Up Media:

LinkedIn (Lee Fuller): https://www.linkedin.com/in/lee-fuller-3013aa188/

Instagram (Level Up Media): https://www.instagram.com/tradeacceleratorltd

Stay connected with dissident creative agency:

https://linktr.ee/dissidentagency

Subscribe now and don’t miss future episodes of The Build Up Podcast!

Tradesmen at that market.

I'm not a marketer that's trying to learn construction.

There is a massive, massive difference.

I want some fucking leads.

What are you going to tell me?

You got the wrong guy.

No, guys.

That's my motto.

No one cares into, like, leads and content at the end.

That's the end of the process.

Welcome back to the build up.

I'm Dan, the creative director at dissident.

And today I'm joined by Lee Fuller, who is from Level Up

media.

Lee's, an ex bricklayer, built up his business to a really decent

size and has turned his hand into marketing.

But from all the things that he learned, marketing that business.

What I love about Lee's kind of approach is he is a

genuine tradie.

He's come from that industry.

He understands the problems that tradespeople have in not only like generating

business, but also still trying to do the work that needs to

day to day.

What's really cool about Lee is he's kind of like the antidote

for those kind of I can get UX leads per month type

agencies.

Lee's approach isn't about generating tons and tons of leads.

His focus is on making sure that his clients have proper positioning,

tone of voice, and all of the sort of sales processes in

hand for we start to generate leads.

So that's a really interesting approach that I'm not actually seeing a

lot of, with all of the ads coming up for tradespeople about

generating these and stuff.

So that's really, really cool.

Really interesting episode.

Check it out.

Thank you, my brother.

We've both come in rocking the car today.

Thank you so much for traveling and being on the podcast.

Can you tell us a little bit about level of media, how

that started?

I'm really interested in kind of your transition from Tradesperson to kind

of what you do now.

Yeah, yeah.

Of course.

So bricklayer for 21 years, straight out of school, 16 straight and

sort of a trial mind.

And I set up Thames Valley brickwork when I was probably 24.

Okay.

But not really properly, you know what I mean?

I gave it a go and I was doing everything.

So I was doing extensions, garden walls, new builds, so forth and

so on.

We had some luxury builds on the guy, but I was running

around like a lunatic and I made myself quite poorly, actually.

Oh, really?

And I just was paying the wages.

One Friday I was about 27, maybe.

And I was fortunate.

I've had enough.

I was drinking at the time.

I'm recovery now, but I was drinking at the time, and I

was hiring lads from the pub, and it was chaos, and.

And I just decided one day that I was done, and I

wanted to film documentaries and go around the world, and, and I

had never picked a camera up in my life.

And I went to film school, Ealing Studios, and done cinematography, and

then started shooting music videos and promos and all that stuff.

And the opportunity presented itself again to set up the brickwork company

or to build one house.

Actually, it was and I thought I'd do it, I'll do it

and I've done it and I fortunately what what would happen if

I led with content?

Yes.

And it was before that I definitely didn't do the filmmaking to

do the content.

It just it just presented itself and we were content led and

we started YouTube and done, done quite well on there.

And I was able to jockey myself into a position where I

had to pick it up, luxury work locally.

And then yeah, from there really we so from a dead start

using one platform and one message, we were able to get about

£3 million worth inquiries in year one from from working for somebody

else.

Right.

From a dead start.

Just using LinkedIn.

No paid ads.

No nothing.

Just just LinkedIn in the correct messaging and positioning.

And then I had some heavy family stuff go on with my

little one.

And I, a friend of mine, still a client, came to me

and said, can you do for me online what you've done for

yourself?

I thought maybe, maybe.

Let's see.

And I'd done it, and it went to the moon, and I'd

done it again.

And we rinsed and repeated it.

And the agency was born.

Obviously the landscape has changed a lot since then.

And it was we're a fully fledged agency now and make a

lot of money for a lot of people.

I was just giving it a go, you know what I mean?

I understood the fundamentals of marketing content and messaging and positioning, and

I coupled all that together, and and the rest is history, as

they.

Say, accidental agency.

One.

Hundred percent.

I actually try to not set this business up like my ex-partner

now, but we started it together.

She was like, she started agency and I was like, no, I

have no interest in that at all.

But I love helping people and we can touch on my recovery

if you want.

But I love helping people.

And I saw that what we were doing for people was really

helping.

No one knew.

You know, tradesmen don't, as a rule, understand the digital landscape and

how to get in front of their dream clients.

And we were able to really quickly position trade businesses as the

preferred contractor in their area.

Yeah, and it just grew legs and I love it.

Now.

Do you feel like you've got like a, like a unique perspective?

Because I put a post out the other day that was something,

something on the lines of like, I feel like at the moment,

tradespeople are getting inundated as all other businesses have been inundated with

the can you take on more work?

Can you handle 2020 qualified leads per per week and blah blah

blah.

And there's like there's like it's like a load of marketers have

basically just been able to rinse and repeat the same message over

and over and over again.

But a lot of them, you can tell I'm just like, you

make your tradesperson like, and I feel like I feel like that's

going to make a difference because as you said, tradespeople, depending on

the trade, they're, they're really not like well suited

to doing their own marketing.

It's a very specific business that doesn't allow for a lot of

office time.

It doesn't allow you.

You're cracking on all the time, right?

Do you feel like your background has given you a unique perspective,

not just on the industry, but how to have a bit of

empathy for the guys that are actually doing the work?

100%.

Everyone that comes to me has been ripped off.

I got ripped off.

Which is why part of the reason that we do what we

do, right?

Okay.

Construction is a different animal.

It has its own language, its own tone.

And if you haven't operated in that world, it is next to

impossible to speak that language correctly.

And it is the reason that marketing agencies, they see a gap

in the market because of what you just described there, that tradesmen

aren't necessarily up to speed online and they step into it.

Now where we're very different is I'm a tradesman at marketing.

I'm not a marketer that's trying to learn construction.

There is a massive, massive difference.

I live and breathe.

I know, I know the game inside out on how businesses do

business.

You know, B2B do business and also know how to tradesman do

business.

And actually one of our first clients was a was a was

a public company brand that came to me because they couldn't sell

to tradesmen.

Yeah.

They.

Sorry.

They can't have a tradesman, but they wanted to increase their sales.

And when you, when you are a corporate business, sell into the

boots on the ground.

You need to be able to understand the language.

So as a dyslexic, you know, alcoholic, they came to me and

said, can you can you sell sell more products for us?

And I said, yeah, absolutely.

So I, you know, I'm dyslexic, right?

But I get paid to, to speak construction.

Yes.

Because because it's a different it's a different beast.

And unless you from it you can't do it.

You got to understand your market right.

If you're going to sell to them you have to understand their

market, your market.

As the so when you first, you know, we go back to

those that first that mate that you had the you gave great

success to as that formula changed much since then or was it

one of those things where or not?

This is the fundamentals.

And we and we sort of stick with this.

So the fundamentals are the same.

Yeah.

So positioning a message in are the same because his ICP is

currently the same unless he decides to pivot or change.

Ideal.

Ideal client knows but the landscape of marketing has changed because of

A's come in and you know linked in was his A platform.

It still is, to be fair.

But it's moving towards pay to play.

It's trying to be meta.

It's making a bit of a hash of it at the moment.

It's not.

It's not LinkedIn payloads aren't great at the moment.

Expensive aren't they?

We got in with him at the right time.

Yes, the timing is important.

And look, we built I built this agency using LinkedIn posting for

my clients three times a week organically and scaling them.

Right.

That model doesn't exist anymore.

It needs to be coupled with outbound.

We got in at the right time.

We built his network out correctly with his with his ideal clients,

and he's still getting success and he's still worth the money.

He's still making a lot of money off the back of what

we do for him.

I actually don't offer that service anymore.

Okay.

I've discontinued that organic LinkedIn package, because what we do now as

a business is if you're doing, say, half £1 million and you'll

be to see, we'll run your dad's for you.

If you have a team, say your B2B and you know you

want builders, developers, all that stuff will come in and we'll train

your in-house team.

Yes, because it's just not cost effective to pay an agency X

amount of money as a retainer to get the result.

It just takes so long to get organic results.

Now, organic marketing is really, really difficult.

And it's.

Tough even for someone with a profile, with a profile and a

presence.

So the model that the service that we provide him doesn't exist

for me anymore.

Some people still do it.

I'm all about results.

I'm not interested in, you know, just just social media management, as

it were.

Like, you know, for me, it's about campaigns and and and return.

Oh.

I yeah, I mean, social organic social is one of those kind

of like tough sells.

It's like, you know, for the most part it's obviously it's important

for for big brands, organic is still important because it's especially if

you built a big following, there's still a there's a need for

that kind of well positioned, well branded strategic communication.

But it's not going to move the needle for sales.

And B2B is kind of okay in some respects.

Oh, like B2B to see like if you like, you know, if

you're selling if you're marketing to the end user, but then the

end user is going to a distributor, which is typically our model.

Organic works really well because it's like brand awareness.

But when you're a trades business that's like you need to get

work.

It's it's become it's a little bit it's a little bit tricky.

It didn't used to be like I say, I built I built

Thames Valley brickwork in a year and I got those numbers off

of three posts a week.

Organically, right.

Organic.

LinkedIn was a powerhouse, and it still is to a certain extent.

I think there's a space in that market for someone else to

come in and take the B2B.

I don't think LinkedIn's got long.

If it carries on worse going off and someone else will come

into that space and do it better than they are.

But it's it is still important, I do say to people, because

80% of audience aren't ready to buy just yet, right?

They're looking they're browsing.

You know, they might have some a project that's going through plans,

right?

They might.

They're not they're not ready.

So uploading organic content is important now if you'll be to see.

So if you're on meta so you say to homeowners for example

you still need to be doing organic content as well.

Right.

But you can almost bypass it to a certain extent because you

can run ads.

You can get in front of the right people straight away with

the right message in, and get them into your ecosystem with lead

generators and all that stuff.

With B2B, if you're new, if you're a new company or you're

a young business or you're just starting your marketing journey, you haven't

really got that many options because because LinkedIn is where you need

to be.

So I still say to people, it is still really important to

market on LinkedIn if you'll be to be.

Yeah.

But like I say, we now train in-house teams to do it.

It's just not cost effective to pay an agency to do it.

Yeah.

And if you're a one man band or whatever, you know, you're

just starting up.

I'd still and I'm big on I'm big as well on like

maximum return on time.

We're all busy, you know what I mean?

So maybe get your partner up to speed on it or, you

know, just just do three posts a week and then a bit

of outbound when you get time.

But there's loads and loads of things you can do, but it's

just organic is a slog whichever way you look at it.

And it didn't used to be, which meant I had to pivot

my business completely.

Yeah, because we were an organic market agency and it worked really

well and we had millions in revenue.

But that model is dead.

You've, you've it's like you said, it's paid to play now is

100%.

And you're right with brands as well.

Absolutely are.

We work with a couple and and it's really important.

Brand awareness is important.

They need to be people's faces.

Absolutely.

For me you just get much quicker returns on paid advertising.

You've got to it's got to be part of your model.

I was speaking there's a there's a brand who I won't name,

who?

I know the marketing manager doesn't believe in paid social.

And I'm like, what do you mean you don't believe in it?

It's not a religion.

It's a it's a it's a thing that needs to happen.

They happen to be one of the biggest brands in their particular

fields, so.

But that won't be the same forever.

Yeah.

That's that's got a shelf life.

Yeah.

And I've seen that.

I've literally seen that happen.

It's that sort of mindset that and again, I don't know them

and it's not my place.

We'll talk about..

Yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah.

It looks like.

That has got a shelf life because everyone is moving towards paid

advertising and it works.

And what I will say is if you're running paid ads, whether

you're a brand or you're a contractor.

It is also the fastest way to lose money.

Yes.

If you haven't now dry CP in your messaging and your sales

process and we can we can touch on that.

But it is a powerhouse.

But there's no two ways about it and works.

I want to go straight into like what?

What are you seeing tradespeople doing that's wrong?

What's what's what.

Like if you could if you could nail down what's, what's the

stuff that that you wish you could change straight away that you

see most commonly in their in their marketing, their social media, whatever.

What would.

It be.

There's two the main ones talking about themselves, okay.

Talking about themselves.

No one cares.

Yeah.

No one cares.

If that's my motto.

No one cares.

No one cares until they care.

If you didn't think I could add value with marketing, it wouldn't

be say, right?

And if I didn't even vice versa or whatever that looks like.

And I buy things because they solve a problem for me.

That's it.

You know, and I used the Costa coffee analogy all the time.

Like, you know, we went to Starbucks earlier, actually got coffee on

the way here.

If I walked into Starbucks and said, can I get a latte

and whatever, whatever.

My daughter drinks.

And they said, yeah, but you know that our CEO lives in

LA and our beans are farmed in Colombia.

I'd be like.

No.

I've gotta be somewhere.

Can I have my coffee, please.

And solve my problem?

Yeah.

And that's what's happening with with everyone.

And it's social media.

It's catch 22.

Right.

Because what happens is young businesses start and they go online and

they see influencers talking about themselves and all that stuff.

And there's a big difference between personal brand and business marketing.

Right.

And what they do is they then jump onto TikTok and they

jump onto Instagram and Facebook when they're selling to businesses.

And then what they do is they talk about themselves and we've

built or not I but our business built 45 websites last year,

and everyone that we reviewed when they came to us said, we

are, we are.

This is what we do.

We're a fifth generation building, I didn't ask.

No one cares.

Yeah.

How can you solve my problem?

And it's like, what are you doing?

How does it make my life easier?

And that's the key.

How does it make my life easier?

Stop talking about yourself.

It's not about you.

It's not about you.

You are a vehicle to get your client from where they are

to where they want to be.

And if you can't articulate that very, very quickly and easily, you'll

lose them.

Any friction you put in away, any any confusion you confuse, you

lose any confusion that you put in a way, they will just

go and do somebody else and I'll say, I'll just just to

caveat that people do not buy the best service.

No they don't.

They buy the one that's articulated the most clear, the clearest.

So if your competitor is not an icy all the time.

That's one reason that bad tradesmen get work is because they articulate

what they do very clearly and how they sold their clients problem

very clearly.

If you're talking about yourself, it's like going on a date and

sitting there.

Talk about themselves for an hour.

Yeah, stop Talking About Yourself is the first and fourth for brands

as well.

The brands do it as well.

Everyone.

Everybody does it in construction.

So that is the quickest thing that you can do to move

the needle.

It's it's so easy though.

It's so like when.

You, you say that I'm not so sure.

What I mean is like, it's so easy.

Like, it's just a natural thing because you're if you're if you're

in the business, you go, I know exactly what we do.

And I feel like everyone needs to know what we do.

And it's like, it's it's such a simple thing to be able

to just go like, oh, we do this and we do that.

And, you know, Tom does this over here and I know and

it's and it's just a simple way.

It's like you go, well it's quite hard to sort of backwards

like deconstruct that into like, what does that do for the person

that we can do this for.

And how does that work.

And one of the things that.

One of the things that I, that I see a lot in

like LinkedIn and stuff, LinkedIn, my jam, that's my favorite platform, even

though everyone.

Hates it, was mine for a long time.

Yeah, I still love it.

I saw it because it's it's such a good.

I think it's still good.

I think it's personal is amazing.

I think anything that's actually like a branded page that it's tossed.

Yeah.

But it's that kind of thing of like, you know, you see

the, the thing that's helping, helping X business do X and you

just see that constantly on that.

I know that sounds rubbish as well.

So he's trying to find that balance of being like differentiating different

differentiating, but also still solving the problem for your customer and stuff.

Really, really tricky.

That's the messaging right?

Message.

That's what messaging so important as well.

Right.

So Rs is construction marketing and sales actually works because that is

what we do.

And that's how we solve your problem.

Right?

If you put in plumber from Essex.

Oh sweet.

Yeah.

There's about 3 million other options to choose from.

Right.

So messaging is so so so important.

And until you've got that nailed and I agree with what you

said as well, it's like standing inside a bottle not being able

to see the label.

Yeah.

When you're a business and you're in the day to day and

you're, you know, so busy with the day to day, like it's

really hard to understand and show him and compassion for your ideal

client.

Yeah.

But until you do that, you won't scale is that's we've got

the data on it so you won't do it.

So I, I'm a trades personally and I want I need

to grow my business.

I want to grow my business.

And I come to you and I say Lee I want some

fucking leads.

What are you going to tell me?

You're the wrong guy?

Because that's what's happening, right?

We're seeing we're seeing loads and loads of trades, businesses being like,

I want leads, I want leads.

We're seeing marketing gurus saying, I can get you leads and stuff

like that.

You have a sort of contradictory approach to kind of to, to

what needs to happen before leads.

If even if leads are important at all, work.

Like leads at the end of the process, content and leads at

the end of the process.

Right?

And this is the bit that people really struggle to get their

head around.

You know, if you if you came to me, I mean, everyone

does.

They always come to me and say, I want leads, can you

get me leads in?

The first thing I asked them is, what does your business look

like?

Right.

Because what happens is companies start and then they get a bit

busier and they get a bit busier, and the company owner becomes

a bottleneck every time they get around a half £1 million mark

and the company owner is running around like a lunatic doing everything,

dealing with clients are sending invoices, you know, whatever.

Haven't got the processing systems in place.

And they, they, they're they're stressed is what they are.

Yes.

Now what happens is if I turn on because what we do

works.

If I turn on your paid advertising and I'll fill your pipeline

up, what's that going to do?

Yeah, that's going to send you over the edge.

And I've had it three times now where client.

This was early on in our, in our journey.

But we felt their pipelines up.

And let's stop using my service because they haven't got the sales

process in place.

They haven't got to.

They take the right team members in the right positions to then

speed to lead to, to close the deals.

And what ends up happening is it's actually detrimental.

Yeah, because they end up looking stupid.

They end up getting a bad reputation for not serving, not not

not responding to the clients quick enough.

It's detrimental.

So I won't run advertising for anyone until you've got the correct

systems and processes in place to handle the leads, because I can

get you leads.

That's a fact.

I've got a date.

I can prove that I can get you leads, but this leads

into a problem.

It's never the problem.

It's always message messaging, positioning.

And it is nine times out of ten the sales process.

Because yeah.

Let's let's because the positioning is my jam.

I love positioning for brands specifically.

So I'm interested to hear about what that looks like for for

tradespeople.

You'd think it'd be the same problems, but it probably isn't a

like why is that important.

Like what are we looking at there and what can what can

tradespeople potentially start looking to improve with.

Because everyone's talking about themselves.

I mean that's straight away the problem, right.

But the way that you speak to so I work with a

lot of companies that that do both B2B and B2C.

Now, the way that you speak to a commercial director, and this

is why we're different to everybody else, is because I understand how

commercial directors QTS is all of that stuff.

Right.

But the way that you speak to a quantity surveyor, it's different

to the way you speak to Mr. and Mrs. Jones that want

solar install on their own.

Right.

So it's a different conversation.

And the reason is because they have different problems.

Okay.

It's for example, if you're selling to a builder and a developer

that is building houses to sell, he cares about his profit margin,

right?

He's got to get his houses on the market.

He's got to recoup all of his money.

He's probably got development finance, which is hanging over him, which is

why he needs done so quickly.

There's so many moving parts to that scenario.

Whereas Mr. and Mrs. Jones, they've got a young family, right.

If they haven't worked on their home, they might have to move

out for a little while, incur extra rent, just like it's it's

totally different.

You are talking to completely different languages.

So when you try and throw a blanket over it, you land

with nobody.

Yes.

And especially when you're like we do X, it's like, well I

didn't ask.

I've got, I want an extension built of solar panels put on

whatever that might be.

I've got, I've got a newborn baby I got, I got through

school runs with a five year old.

My husband's at work in London.

I didn't ask what you were about.

How are you going to get my house to where I want

it to be as simple and as easy as possible, and I

mean, that is fundamental level.

That is it.

It's different.

It's just talking different languages.

So when you when you can differentiate your personas, then you can

start to dissect, okay, how do we show up and how do

we talk to these people.

And then it goes into where do we talk to these people

and in what manner.

And then you start looking at advertising.

But yeah.

Yeah.

First of all, you got to figure out like, you know, who

you're talking to.

And I guess the thing that I've always been fascinated about positioning

is like what you look like, if you look like a small

business, it's like they can like they can barely sort of hang

on to.

And you do lots of little small gigs and stuff, and then

you and then you're sort of trying to get huge commercial projects.

It sounds on the surface, it sounds like that's not going to

be the right fit.

Right?

Whereas if you imagine if you look like a big outfit, you

got like slick looking professionals that have got like real you can

tell they've got real industry knowledge and experience.

You're more like, I imagine you're more likely to to get those

bigger commercial jobs potentially.

So with this is such an interesting point, actually.

I get a lot of people come to me saying, I want

big commercial projects, right?

And I'll look at their marketing collateral and it looks like they're

just they've just started.

Everything's in the wrong frame size, everything.

Like the website talks about themselves, it's lumpy and made it pretty

cost nothing.

I and it's like, what are you trying to do?

And we spoke about this before we started this podcast.

Like, what are you trying to build?

Yes, because that dictates what you do next.

Yeah.

So if you're, you know, if you are trying to get big

commercial, I mean with Thames Valley brickwork as an example, like we

only ever got, I got up to 15 blokes and I stopped,

went to film school and when I restarted it only had two

games.

We only got two, eight, eight guys.

But every time I spoke to somebody about the business, they were

like, oh my God, I thought you were huge.

And we weren't at all.

But I showed up in a way online, which made me look

good.

So my website, no matter where you landed on Thames Valley brickwork,

whether it was the reviews on Google, whether it was the website,

whether it was my social media, my LinkedIn, it looked it looked

the nuts, and it spoke about my client and my client's problems.

So it didn't matter where you went, they'd resonate.

You know what I mean?

And they're such quick wins for small companies.

It's like, sort your brand and sort your messaging out, you know,

get a website.

If it was me, I'd be spending money as a new contract

or a young contractor, getting a slick website and paying money for

photography for that website.

The websites that we've built that have professional photos on them look

brilliant, and it moves the needle.

So there's little things you can do.

But yeah, it's how do you how do your ideal clients see

you?

What do they see?

Where do they see you.

And then what do they see when they get there?

So important.

If you're a tradesperson that is somewhere in the middle, because there's

this kind of thing where, like, I don't want to turn down

domestic, I don't want to turn down commercial.

I like the small jobs, but I also like the bigger jobs

and stuff.

I think we've all been there in in business where it's like,

I don't want to alienate myself from any type of work in

that.

And therefore you kind of it's that classic thing of like marketing

to everyone, right?

Which is not a great place to be.

And what would you say to those guys that are kind of

like, well, I still want to do this and I still want

to do that.

Would you say still focus in on one area and show up

for those people and that will trickle down to them anyway and

stuff I had.

Not as a marketing strategy wouldn't.

I think that is a real thing.

So as you, you know, as we say, for example, we built

yeah, off the back of that I got extensions and they knew

someone who knew somebody.

Right.

I think you can do all of it.

I spoke to people.

You can do whatever you want, you know, but you've just got

to be very, very particular, like a sniper, and work out who

you're talking to on what platform.

So as a rule, and it's not it's not this isn't like

gospel, right?

Yeah.

But as a rule, if you want commercial you'll be on LinkedIn.

Yeah.

And as a rule, if you want B2C homeowners you'll be on

on meta.

So shop differently for both platforms.

What it will mean is you just have two campaigns.

You just have your B2B campaign, your B2C campaign, and some of

them cross over and I'll do it.

I'll do an exercise with clients actually, where we get a whiteboard

and put a line down the middle, and we do B2B on

one side, B2C on the other side, and we write down all

of the problems and get the team to brainstorm and all the

problems that they both suffer with.

Whatever those crossovers, I draw a line and that content will relate

on both.

On both platforms.

Yes.

Because it's, you know, it's it's the same problems, but ultimately you're

just going to have to do two week.

We do what's called a marketing map.

It's the first thing that we do with anybody we team up

with, and we'll sit down for an hour.

I've got an AI bot now that does it.

But ordinarily we'd sit down for an hour and we'd just go

into everything about your ICP and then obviously off the back of

that, you can then start to look at platforms and stuff, but

you can do it.

You've just got to be you just got to differentiate them because

you can't throw a blanket over it unless you unless you've done

that exercise where you're talking about the things they both struggle with.

So unreliable tradesmen would be one of those things you could talk

about on both platforms.

Yeah, because homeowners struggle with that and so do builders, developers, commercial

managers and stuff.

It's quite a good tactic to sort of be be to, to

show up as the antidote for the thing that other people have

experienced this as a negative.

Right.

100%.

Yeah, I was we were talking about this just just off air,

but I've just been reading Stand the Fuck Out by Louis.

I can't remember his last name now.

French marketer.

Really, really cool book.

And he sort of, like, touches on this kind of thing of

like your, your communication and the differentiation can be around the kind

of rebelling against X, but it doesn't.

It can just be a concept.

It doesn't have to be like, we do stuff that's not the

same as this brand, because that brand's shit, like, that's kind of

not a great place to be in marketing.

It's not nice to be calling people out, but calling out a

process or a, you know, something like that.

You're not hurting anybody by saying, I'm the antidote to cowboy builders

because the cowboy builders are going to go, hey, stop!

Stop talking about us.

You know.

You need a villain.

Yeah, you need a villain.

Every marketing campaign needs a villain, needs a bad guy.

My, I'm very, very clear on mine.

If you look at my social media, I talk about all the

time.

Right?

You know, my villain is market agencies.

That kind of a barn door in construction.

And I'll talk about them, and I use them and and the

reason for that is people don't.

People move away from paying more than they move towards pleasure.

So, you know, I will try homeowners if you, as an example,

will move away from getting ripped off more than they'll move towards.

I need that extension to it as an example.

Right.

So if we can incorporate that in our market and what it

does is it encourages them to take action.

Yes.

You know, and that is a real strategy that we hang on,

hang on.

It works.

It absolutely works.

You know that talk about the villain, talk about the bad guy

talk.

And the beautiful thing with trade businesses as well.

Your potential clients will offer you that information because people are talking

about themselves.

Right.

So when you're in front of a client and you're talking to

them about the project potential project that you might do on your

pricing, say to them, like, what experience have you had with with

other people that do what I do?

And they all tell you that's content?

Yes, that is, I will be leading with that stuff.

I love I love the idea because, you know, people think about

research.

Research is kind of like a scary concept for like especially brands,

but a lot of businesses because I'm just like, how the hell

am I going to go do research?

Like like I'm.

And so everyone runs on gut instinct at the time.

But it's quite interesting because you can just kind of you've got

a good customer.

You go, you ask them like a couple of really simple questions.

What are the bad experiences that you had that have stopped you

from working with a company like us, but aren't us?

What was the thing that made us stand out as being a

good choice for this particular thing?

And it's those two questions over like ten different customers can give

you a lot of insight, right?

So we've got a part of a sales process that we do.

We've got we utilize AI.

Now obviously it's you know not to every sales call I do

is recorded.

And I asked that question at the top of every call.

Yeah.

No.

What's your experience like.

What prompted you to call me once you and I've got, we've

got another bot that we use for our content that writes our

scripts.

And I just feed it.

I feed it that because then everything that we create is based

around issues and the problems that potential client is having.

Right.

So there's lots of ways you can do it, and there's lots

of ways that can can save you time as well.

Now, especially with AI and chat bots and stuff.

But ultimately just speak to your clients, you're existing clients, the ones

that you have.

Just ask them.

An interesting one that came up in this, in this book, send

the fuck out as well, was speak to the people who nearly

bought from you but didn't.

And I think that's that's quite a hard pill to swallow.

It's like and a lot of the time I imagine if you,

if you actually speak to them directly, there'll be two kind about

like the reasons why they didn't work with you.

But I think that's really a real fascinating insight into like, is

there something specifically that, you know, nothing wrong with?

You carry on with whoever you're picking.

Is there something specific that you understood about my business that meant

we weren't the right fit for this?

Because because I can, I can I can work on that for

the future.

And I think.

That is what.

To do.

So what that does is that that challenges people's egos.

Yes.

And you go is one of the main reasons that businesses don't

scale.

I've had it all the time.

That's part of ways with customers because of it.

We've got a process where I've got another, another Chloe that works

for us and she actually.

Another Chloe.

Chloe one and Chloe two.

Jesus.

She, she, like, I get her to cool, cool clients that don't

buy.

I'm like, yes, exactly what you said.

Let's get let's get feedback.

How am I supposed to move this thing forward if I keep

making the same mistake?

Right.

And tradesmen and trade business owners aren't they're not trained salesmen.

Right.

So, you know, they will be falling short in certain areas.

And without that data, you can't move forward as a business.

So that feedback is so important.

So but it it challenges, you know, no one wants to know

what they do badly.

Did I know but you.

Got hurt.

Yeah.

But as a I think there's a there's a big distinction between

entrepreneurs, business owners and people that run small companies.

Right.

And you know, and everything in between all of that stuff.

Right.

But if you want to scale, if you want to hit big

numbers, that stuff is absolutely key.

Because if if there's a if there's a chink in your armor,

if there's something that you're doing wrong, you put the best sales

process in the world in place, can't you?

If you're falling short and I've got I've got someone at the

minute actually has experienced that.

There's a there's a disconnect somewhere.

And we're working really hard to work out where that disconnect is

and then fix the problem.

Love that.

It's I think we've talked about positioning and I love that concept

positioning.

Something I'm really geeky about.

Sales process is something that I'm not particularly geeky about.

But you mentioned at the top, and that's a huge part of

the sort of like how to actually generate more business and stuff.

Can you talk us through what that looks like for you and

how you kind of how you how you work with your customers

to figure that stuff?

Yeah, for sure.

And it's changed massively because I kept getting the same problem.

So because people come to us and ask for leads, and we

were primarily a lead generating company that, you know, there was something

that we'd done messaging and position was one of them.

But I noticed that we we'd fill the pipelines up and they

just weren't selling.

Yeah.

And then I was I had a real internal conflict because I'm

like, well, if I'm getting them the leads and delivering the marketing,

that's why I'm sort of messaging, positioning, getting them the leads, and

I'm doing the closing.

I might as well just run the business.

Yeah.

So I've had lots of conversation with lots of different people and

about about this, that issue.

And we're just about to roll out, if we're basically going to

become the leading sort of sales and marketing trainer in construction alongside

our done for you service, and we're going to go into businesses

and implement our systems and give their staff training on how to

close so we can take them from lead to close right away

through the whole process.

But ultimately that speed to leads really important.

You get a lead, come in.

You know you need to be back in touch with that same

day.

Yeah, we've got a bot that we're in the process of setting

up.

It's been proven I know someone else that uses it.

It's a great, great bit of software.

And actually, if someone sends an inquiry for your advertising in the

evening or over the weekend or whatever, it'll get them booked into

your diary straight away.

Love that.

And then we've got vessels that go out as well.

So if you book into our diary, you'll get a VSL that

tells you exactly what we do and how we do it, and

how we can help you with we've proven results.

And again, if I don't watch X amount of the video, I

cancel the call because I don't want to waste anybody's time.

Right.

There's no point, that's all jumping on calls if it's not a

good fit.

Right.

So that pre-qualification piece is really, really important.

Again, we're all busy.

How do we get maximum return on time.

And it's stuff that you can do to to help that.

Yeah.

Vessels are one of them.

What would be a video.

So it's a video that they'll get in the simplest of terms,

it's a video sales letter.

Okay.

But effectively what will happen is they'll it'll be on an automation.

And when you book into my calendar, it will trigger it.

Okay.

And they'll get it straight into the seller.

Please watch this.

You know, we'll cancel the call.

If not.

And we've got some software that tracks how much of the video

has been watched.

So if they've only watched ten minutes out of a 20 minute

video, it's like, listen, it's the right time, but come back when

it is.

Oh, we want to be getting on calls with people that that

serious.

Right.

And there's other there's other things you can do.

There's lots of other things you can do.

And we mentioned it already.

But because 80% of the audience aren't ready to buy just yet,

they're window shopping.

They know something's up, projects coming up, they know that they're going

to want to do this at some point.

It might be raising finance, raising funds.

We want to be getting people into our ecosystem so we can

nurture them and sell to them and and whatever, whatever that looks

like further down the line.

Right.

Or one of the ways to do that is by lead generators.

So, you know, you can run paid advertising, talking about B2C now,

but you can run paid advertising, for example, for our business, it

was when we were doing a lot of websites.

It was get a free website and social media review within 24

hours.

Okay, so we'd send that back.

Now if someone's submitting that details, we get their details.

We get the phone number, their email address and a business name.

If they're submitting details for a website review, they probably need a

new website.

Yes, right.

Makes sense.

If you've got a rough cost calculator on your website and your

main contractor and someone's filled that in and they've given you all

that, you know, their address, their number, their email, at some point

they're probably gonna want an extension building.

Yes.

Right.

So it's not there's so much money on the table with potential

clients that aren't ready to buy.

And then what you do is you put on the nurture sequence

and then.

So for example, if someone doesn't buy with us, what happens is

they'll get an automated email, just testimonial after testimonial videos.

It's like, oh, these guys are legit.

So when I am ready to buy, I'm coming back.

Yes.

You know what I mean?

It's it's.

Social proof.

And all that.

Yeah, for sure, but it's all subjective depending on what you sell,

depending on who ICP is your ideal client.

But this and we live in its 2026 automations, you know, video

content, there's a lot of ways to gain trust before you get

on a sales call.

It's it's like kind of concept of I think I think there's

perhaps a misconception, but perhaps it's somewhat true.

I think it's somewhat true for everybody that tradespeople aren't super tech

savvy, and they're not nerds often for the stuff that we like

to do, but also some of them are.

And the ones that want to scale typically are right.

If you're passionate about trying to grow a business and stuff, you're

looking to grow in a business, I think, and I imagine they're

a good client for you.

But you know, this, this we're in the age now of like,

you can do a lot of your admin individually and not have

to really put a lot of you don't have to build a

huge team around you to get the results that you need to

have someone in the office like 24 over seven responding to stuff.

You can kind of do that on your own time.

And tradespeople especially are really used to doing everything on the fly

anyway.

You know, it's kind of like a quick phone call here or

there to catch up.

But if you can automate stuff, which means that you're getting back

to your customers, that there's a process in place and you know

that you've got something to do.

One of the one of the worst kind of feedback, pieces of

feedback for from around tradespeople, it's a general sort of thing is

like communication.

Bad communication is like prevalent in the trades because there's no systems

in place.

Right.

And then like you say, like if you're not getting back to

your to your leads, you've got no leads.

It's like, I love construction, but it's ten years beyond every other

industry.

It really is.

Like even when I talk about CRM systems, people's head fall off.

They're just like, I don't even know what that is.

This doesn't know what that is.

It's a it's a management system where everything lives.

Okay.

So your leads come into there.

You can do all your email and you can phone from there

with all of our phone calls from there as well.

And everything's captured just by doing that.

You don't have to put a post-it notes on your kitchen table,

right?

It's all in one place, and you can sort your automations out

from there as well.

And I mean the possibilities of an absolutely endless all of data's

tracks, which is really, really important.

But trying to explain what that is and why people need it

fall short.

Yes, because they are, especially with young businesses, you know, people that

are just starting up.

And I love what you said there as well about the entrepreneur

side of things and people that are trying to build successful companies.

We're seeing that and we're actually seeing that a lot of people

are now coming to us with some of this stuff in place.

Yeah, because the the younger entrepreneurs that are coming through, I'm 38,

right.

But there's a lot of lads coming through a lot 24, 25,

26 they've grown up on social media.

They understand the benefits of processes and systems.

Now what I say to people that are maybe my generation or,

you know, around, around my sort of age, is that one of

the quickest things you can do is higher, whether it be your

partner or a family member or whatever that looks like, or even

just a VA like, you know, you can get a reasonably priced

VA and get them up to speed, because what they can do,

once you've got the processes and systems in

place, they can manage a CRM system, they can make sure all

the invoicing is done and they can manage your social media organically.

If you're if you're running organic social media and you're not doing

paid advertising, that is one of the quickest wins is pay a

VA, get them training.

And that's one of the things we provide, get them training and

get them up to speed.

And they will just cover off all of it.

And you can just carry on with what you're doing.

And as you grow, you've got the processes, systems in place with

your CRM system, automations, all of that stuff.

It becomes much easier then you can bring somebody in full time

or part time or whatever that looks.

Like, and that's the start of scaling, right?

And then eventually you can kind of if you want to, you

can separate yourself from the work.

Yeah.

There's businesses will never, ever, ever scale.

And I've got the data for it.

Whilst they don't have the processes and systems in place, forget leads.

If you are a business owner and you are doing everything, you

don't even need to look at Leeds.

No, it's so far away.

I'll say so far away.

It's like 4 to 6 weeks away if you nail it.

But you need to be getting your processes systems in place to

buy back your time, to then allow you to do what you're

good at, which might be going out and winning work, going out

and get in front of the clients, all that sort of stuff.

Do shoot days, go and do podcasts or whatever that looks like,

you know?

But that stuff is impossible if you don't have the processing systems

in place.

That's CRM argument is massive.

Like I was speaking to, one of our clients is a company

called Powered Now who do project management for tradespeople.

Really cool app, lovely people.

And one of the, one of the sort of things that they

struggle with is like, oh, it's like, you know, 12.50 pounds a

month.

I've got to pay that.

Like, Jesus Christ, we pay for hundred pounds a month for our

CRM, minimum.

And that's like and then we've also got project management to the

side of that.

And I used Pipedrive, which is another kind of CRM.

And there's all these different things.

And we're only like seven people.

And I'm like, but it's so important for our business and I'm

like 12 pounds 50ft or whatever.

And I'm sure there are more expensive ones, but they'll scoff at

that.

And I'm like, it's crucial.

And these are the people that often, that when you're like,

their, their idea of a CRM is leaving like WhatsApp messages unread

so you can check them later.

That's about as far as they're adding goes.

And I'm like, I've been there.

You touched on something so important.

And it is probably one of I'd say it's one of the

messaging in position.

It's one of the biggest issues that I see and it's mindset.

It's a it's a fixed mindset around money.

I had it, I had it myself.

This is a real a real thing has been a real thing

for me in the past.

To scale a business, you need to invest.

Yep.

Like if you're if you're we've had a lot of brands in

the same mindset actually when I've come to us and was like,

don't lose us a single client, we've got a shoestring budget, but

I want X like that.

They don't live in the same street.

You know, if you if you want to scale a company, you've

got to invest in the right places.

Which is why I'm big on making sure you put the money

in the right places rather than just, you know, chucking the wall

open.

Something sticks.

Right?

But, it's that that mindset thing is a real, real, real problem.

And you tend to see the ones that the ones that stay

stuck are the ones that can't look past that.

And they scoff at £12 and they start, well, if you're trying

to get and I always I always lead sales conversations with it.

But have you got a revenue number.

Oh yeah.

Well I'm at 400 K and I want to hit £1 million

in the next 12 months.

I'm like so doable.

That's so doable.

But it's a process and systems.

Yeah.

Right.

You're going to have to look at your content.

You're going to have to look at where we're putting our paid

advertising.

There's an investment that goes with that.

You're not adding 600 grand in revenue if you're scared to spend

£12 on an app.

All right.

So you've got to it goes back to the conversation at start.

What do you want and what are you trying to build.

You know what I mean.

Like that dictates what you do next with all of it.

Yeah.

You know.

I imagine if you if there was a way of framing this

to, to a tradesperson like, okay, you want to go from 400

grand to 1.5 million in the next 12 months, do you think

you can cope with that amount and work with the systems that

you have in place now?

I imagine the answer would be no, right?

And surely, surely you wouldn't be so delusional to be like, yeah,

yeah, like same team, same crew, same process.

A lot of them don't know what one and a half mill

looks like.

Yeah.

So a lot of them don't have a reference point, so they'll

be running around like lunatics.

I just need zeros.

I just need work.

I just need work.

And when you break it down and be like, okay, that this

is what that looks like, if you want that, oh, okay, I'll

come back when I've got some money to invest.

So it's like, but then that's why the vessels are so important

because it's like, let's sift out the, you know, again, the people

that don't actually want to scale, they just want zeros and want

to be seen to be doing well.

We can't work with those guys.

There's an ego problem there.

Just what I mean.

So, you know, for us it's really important that we work with

company owners that get it the C Division.

No.

Okay.

To get from here to there I need to do X and

then they execute.

And this the mindset is really really important.

It's the it's one of the it's I'd say it's the biggest

thing that holds people back.

It was I was with some guys the other day and really

really great business really great guys.

They're doing incredibly well.

But I was surprised that they didn't have a project management system

in that of anything.

And these guys are pushing £1 million or maybe just over.

Let's assume let's assume that there are £1 million revenue.

Quid revenue is very different for an agency than it is to

a to construction businesses, because sometimes revenue is revenue.

Right.

Like and margins and stuff.

But we're not a million in revenue.

And it's a, it's a it's a nice round number that I'm

working towards because a million revenue typically looks

like about ten people.

And one one, one 1.5 million is about ten people in the

agency.

A real good mix of different creatives and crafts.

And it's achievable as a founder led agency.

So that's my goal.

I know, I know that I don't really want to go much

further than that because you have to really scale up.

Then I'm not prepared to do that.

But that might lead to an agency that kind of runs itself

so I can go off and do another thing.

Another thing I have have some fun.

So that's kind of my goal.

So these guys are like hitting £1 million and they're like, oh

yeah, they're just we just used like maybe like Excel spreadsheets and

stuff like that.

And I'm like, that's fucking nuts.

Like the amount of like processes and like systems and

software that we have in place just to make the, the work

work.

And we've only got like ten clients, you know, it's mental.

They'll push that as far as I can get it.

I don't see them and I won't be able to scout and

listen.

What I will say is if you don't want to scale and

you're happy as a as a small business doing it, you're like,

fair play, dear.

It goes back to what?

What do you want?

Every single time.

Now that's a really clear vision of what you've just said there.

I've got something similar.

Right.

I want to sell my youngest daughter's eight when she's 16.

Before she 16 want the agency sold and money in the bank.

And I've got other, other plans.

Right.

Got some other, other bits and pieces around that as well.

But like for me right now, just to put it into contact

with one else, like for me, I want to travel the world,

travel Europe while my kids are young.

Right now I have ten days a month from Child Tree.

So actually, what does that look like?

Because for me to scale up to a meal now probably can't

do that just yet.

That's probably a couple of years away.

So for me it's actually 40 K.

Recurring is a good number for me.

I know my margins.

That allows me to live the exact life that I want.

I want a life of a venture.

I want a life of travel.

I want to be going on expeditions and all that stuff.

Right?

So and creating content and all that stuff for myself.

So that dictates what I do next.

Yes.

Right.

That dictates do I.

And again that's one of the reasons won't be to say, but

do I get in bed with all of the brands.

You know, do I build a, you know, a great business like

this or at the moment, do I continue to work freelance, not

freelance?

Sorry.

On the road like not doing freelance, but do I continue to

work like I am?

Get a bigger van, you know, because I live on the road

full time and explore as many places as I can with my

kids and on my own.

Yeah, get as many experiences as I can and then 3 or

4 years time scale.

And so yeah, that's that makes total sense to me because I've

spent a lot of time working on myself and recovery and all

that stuff to know that's what that's what makes me happy.

Now that's different to you, right?

You've got a different goal to that, and that's cool.

And every business owner listening to this will have a different goal

and outlook.

But what I see is I see this all the time and

it ruffles people further when I talk about it.

Because of social media, people go, right, yeah, I just want to

hit a meal.

Actually, I saw someone, I want to hit five mil and I'm

like, why?

Yeah, why?

What are your margins and what are you trying to build?

Because I've chased that when I had to build a company, it

was all about like what I look like from the outside looking

in and all of that stuff.

What do I I'm a personal level.

When you do that exercise, I cannot tell you distressed it it

removes.

Yeah.

Because I'm like, okay, if that's the number that I need, let's

work back from now.

Okay.

Well that's so doable in the next 12 months, right?

Problem solved.

Yeah.

I can now go and enjoy my life while running a business

is really helping other people and live the life that I desire.

Talk to me about.

We're going to be ready to wrap this up.

This has been super, super valuable.

Talk to me about a case study.

Like like your your best maybe doesn't have to be the best

a a really, really good scenario where you've worked with a customer

and everything's fallen into place and kind of what that looked like.

And can you talk very briefly about what that structure was?

Yeah, we use a really simple, simple one.

We've got loads of them.

Use a simple one.

So a contractor came to me was doing about a mill, about

a million turnover.

Same problems.

Right?

I was doing everything.

It was chaos.

Everything was written on post-it notes, all of that stuff.

He's just taken a seven figure exit.

We changed his messaging and positioning and implemented a few processing systems.

And that was it.

That's it seems like like it sounds stupid because it's so simple.

This stuff isn't difficult.

It's just clarity and putting the right people in the right places.

But I'll say he could not believe it, and he didn't even

know that he could sell his company.

That was a conversation we had together.

He was, I'll get it valued.

And he got the number.

They came back with a number that he wanted.

And we, you know, we had we had a couple of mil

revenue first over a over probably 16, 17 months.

And then he took the exit, exited last week.

That's the first one.

But we've got loads we got loads of those case studies, you

know, just just by sorting the messaging and positioning you will increase

your revenue.

That is a fact on the right platform.

That's really, really cool.

Aside from messaging and positioning, let's say we've got a tradesperson that's

looking to not quite ready to, to to to go down that

level.

First.

Are there some initial early steps that they can do that are

also going to be a benefit to them?

Like almost like many steps like if let's say let's assume that

they're not quite ready to like let's say pick up the phone,

speak to you, speak to you guys messaging and positioning.

They can probably look into that.

Are there any other things that you think this is also, you

know, it's and this is a nice to have and and it

will move the needle somewhat.

Yeah absolutely.

So you're going to want to just so bear in mind most

people don't place an order from seeing you once.

Right?

Okay.

So social media is how can I say it?

Social media is like where they might find you.

They might stumble across you on social media, but they're going to

go to your website.

Yes.

Okay.

It takes I think I think the date is like it takes

like eight touch points now for them to place an order.

I'm sure it used to be less than that.

For sure is.

And there's stuff that you can do as well.

You can put up Microsoft clarity on your website and see, you

can check all the data on Microsoft Clarity and Google Analytics for.

But without going into all of that stuff, you just need to

make sure that wherever they find you, you look the part and

you are saying the right thing.

Yeah, okay, so if you sell to homeowners, you need to be

talking about their problems wherever your marketing collateral is.

Okay?

Website is super important if you're trying to win work for homeowners

and you haven't got a decent website, forget.

Yeah.

Forget it.

AI is change the game.

I always got everyone distrusting.

So you need to gain their trust as much as you possibly

can.

And having a slick website for me is such a quick win.

It's such a quick win.

If they land there and the visuals look good and the messaging

is correct.

It's it's such a quick win and then you can replicate that

over your social media.

Yes.

If you haven't got a budget and actually for a new business

actually not really to reach out to us again, it goes back

to that return on time.

Yes.

Because obviously it's fine, like when you're a young business, which is

why you need to nail your ideal client, because it might be

that you just have one message on one platform and that's it.

And LinkedIn is great if you'll be to be LinkedIn's great because

it's actually not a creative platform.

That's your penalize creativity.

My creative rules don't do anything on that.

But like talking heads do.

Well, like like founder lead stuff, testimonial stuff, day to day stuff

does quite well on there.

But you can do that 3 or 4 posts a week and

a bit of outbound and really, really scary company.

Do you know what?

I think that's something that I was speaking to again yesterday.

I was speaking to one of my friends that works in construction,

and he was like I mentioned, LinkedIn.

And he goes, do you think I need to be on this

platform?

I was like, yeah, like, like I think I get LinkedIn, get

slapped on a lot, especially if you're looking domestic stuff, maybe not

so much.

I think it's still relevant.

But if you look into that big commercial projects and stuff, and

if you know that your target market is X type of person

in X type of business, you can search for them and find

them and then connect with them and build that network which which

I don't think you can't really do that.

I know the social.

It's so important.

I see tradesmen all the time starting their businesses, and they'll start

an Instagram and Facebook and TikTok.

Yep.

And what happens is they end up driving all over the country

because they can't be specific about that area.

LinkedIn.

I can go and get in front of whatever, whoever you want

to work for straight away in your area.

So over time you can position yourself as a go to in

your area.

We had an influencer doing he's got 2 million followers, was driving

all over the country for work.

It came to me I got 750g of contracts in two weeks

on LinkedIn on his doorstep.

Love that.

Yeah, because you can be you can be specific with who you

talk to and how you talk to them.

You know, you can go and get in front of commercial managers

now, literally now, you know, and you sales navigator as well.

And it's like you can take it to the moon.

He was he was he looked at me because I know that

was it.

I was we were talking about a brand that I wanted to

work with.

And he mentioned the marketing manager there, and I didn't know who

that person was.

So I just did a quick search on LinkedIn.

I was like, oh, yeah, I can see that.

He's like, he's the.

And there's also another person.

He's like, well, have you found him?

And I was like, yeah, yeah, it's just it's really easy.

You just go to the brand and type in the brand and

you can find the people.

And he was like, I did not know you could do that.

Like, how have you not been on LinkedIn before?

It's amazing.

It's such a good platform.

Again for.

The whole business.

Giving LinkedIn coaching.

Yeah, when I stopped, when I left the company, I put it

up.

I'll do some LinkedIn coaching.

I was charging like £350 for 90 minutes.

I was doing like 4 or 5 a week and then it,

it built from there because then obviously content came into play and

all that stuff.

But it's still I mean, there's not really any other B2B, there's

not really any other option.

Now there is an argument to say that you can run ads

on Instagram, on meta for B2B stuff as well, because these are

people and they do scroll right.

But I find that they do business on LinkedIn more.

So yeah, I think I think you can build I'm not great

at a personal brand at all.

I'm working on it, but also a business development type stuff.

Again, like it's as and when it's more it's more of a

priority for me than anybody else.

But you can really, again, really build systems on LinkedIn for stuff

like that.

It's just about like you can isolate very specific people.

But, yeah, there's always been that kind of thing of like, should

we really be focusing any kind of a paid strategy on LinkedIn?

But I feel like LinkedIn is a very personal platform.

I think.

I think it's like person to person.

I think brand to person is less.

Yeah, yeah.

But you know, even even in the brands, it's still people placing

orders.

Yeah.

You know what I mean.

And that's the beauty of it.

If you nail do some research, who do you want to work

with?

What are they posting?

What do they struggle with.

And then create content on that.

And then when they post their next post, reach out, drop them

a message.

I might love you last post.

Most people and I will just touch on as quickly if you

got time.

What most people do.

If you look at the funnel, I don't know.

We'll touch on the funnel.

So you've got top of funnel is so to click right.