On this episode of The High Profit Event Show, host Rudy Rodriguez welcomes Vinnie Fisher, founder of Mentor Academy, serial entrepreneur, bestselling author, and seasoned event leader. With over 50 live events under his belt and a track record of building multiple 7- and 8-figure companies, Vinnie brings a level of clarity and wisdom that every event leader needs to hear. As someone who transitioned from practicing law to full-time entrepreneurship in 2007, Vinnie has since dedicated his life to helping others build businesses that are both profitable and purpose-driven. His most recent venture, Mentor Academy, is designed specifically for second-career professionals—typically around age 45—who have the wisdom and expertise but need the structure and systems to thrive as coaches and mentors.

Throughout this insightful conversation, Rudy and Vinnie dive deep into the three major themes that event leaders must master if they want to succeed in today’s environment. First, they discuss The Power of Precision: Dialing in the “Who” Before the “How.” Vinnie explains that one of the biggest mistakes event hosts make is trying to appeal to everyone. Instead, he encourages leaders to define their exact audience—right down to age, experience level, and goals—and then build every part of their event around serving that specific person. Vinnie shares his own experience refining his messaging to speak directly to 45-year-old professionals looking to transition into coaching, which dramatically increased his event conversions and client retention.

Next, they explore the idea of Curation Over Crowds: Why a Smaller, Qualified Room Wins Every Time. Vinnie makes a compelling case that a curated room filled with the right people creates more organic flow, better engagement, and ultimately stronger long-term relationships. In fact, he suggests that the more you curate, the less rigid your agenda needs to be. Rather than worrying about numbers, the focus should be on alignment—on making sure each seat is filled by someone who truly belongs.

Lastly, the conversation turns to Value Over Hype: Ethical Enrollment That Builds Long-Term Clients. Vinnie shares his evolution from using scarcity-based sales tactics to enrolling clients through genuine value. He emphasizes that enrollment should be about helping people see what’s possible for themselves and making a clear decision—yes or no—with integrity. He shares that getting to “no” is just as valuable as getting to “yes,” and that clarity in value leads to both better conversions and deeper relationships with clients.

If you’re an event leader looking to move beyond surface-level tactics and into high-integrity, high-conversion strategies that actually work, this episode is a must-listen. Vinnie’s direct, heartfelt, and value-packed approach will not only inspire you—it’ll challenge you to uplevel every aspect of how you plan, promote, and lead your events.

Want to connect with Vinnie?

Gifts: https://beyondyourshadow.com/gifts/

Website: https://vinniefisher.com/

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/vinniefisher/

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=61570649563687

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/vinniefisher/

Welcome to today's episode. We have a special guest with us, Mr. Vinny Fisher. Welcome, sir.

Hey, Rudy. Thanks. Thanks for having me.

Grateful to have you here, man. I really enjoyed chatting with you in the green room and just getting to know you a bit more. We were introduced by one of our mutual acquaintances, Mr. Kevin Thompson, an awesome human being, and I'm glad we could connect. For our audience here who maybe is hearing your name for the first time, I want to give a couple just quick background points about you to have them answer the question in their minds. Like, why should I listen to this episode and lean in and how is this going to benefit me in my business and my events? First and foremost, Vinny, you've been running events since 2010, internally since 2008, but externally since 2010 and you've done over 50 events between lunch and learned one days, two and a half type day events. You actually just recently started building out your own conference center within your own corporation and that's just events. Let's tell the story a little bit further back. I mean, including in addition to being a husband, a family man, and a businessman, an entrepreneur, and an attorney, a lawyer, practicing a lawyer that you left that practice in 2007, you went on to go pursue entrepreneurship full time. Since 2007, you have founded and grown several multiple seven figure and even eight figure companies and have become the author of several bestselling books, including the book that stood out to me the most, The Best Investment is a Better You, which he will hardly believe and that's why I'm in this industry as well as, yeah, as well as you and also now you are launching, have launched a new program called Mentor Academy, helping professionals who've had a successful skill set and first career take on a second career as a mentor, equipping them with all the skills they need to be able to do that. So very excited to have you on here and to be able to share your tremendous wealth of expertise and experience with us today.

Well, thanks for those kind words and recap and I too would question why we want to listen to anybody. So thanks for throwing out a few words and we'll go from there. And I also love Kevin Thompson as well. So who doesn't love that guy? If you don't love that guy, then I question whether who you are. So it's great.

Yeah, we interviewed Kevin on this podcast as well, several episodes back. So if you guys are wondering who this Kevin guy is, go back, look through the guest list for Kevin Thompson and listen to his interview. A really great guy. So Vinny, you actually jumping right into the throes of this. You have an event coming, I think, 30 days out from tomorrow. You were telling me in the green room.

Oh, that's correct.

So this is perfect. We're like we're in it right now. You can share this from personal experience.

Yeah. You know, it's funny. I do have 30 days out and all the emotions that come out with that, this particular set of emotions, because normally 30 days, really, I'm the most worried about our cadence to anyone who's even kind of responded to us like Honestly, the most activity of filling your seats, if you've run enough events does happen at the end, like in all the anxieties of wondering whether people are going to sign up and how many sign up. We know when our friends say sold out so much farther ahead. I always wonder about like that. I always want to call them and say, OK, really? Tell me the real truth. Because we don't seem to ever be in that situation. I think there's a sense of urgency and why people do that. But that real reality of the last 30 days is a thing and if you're someone who's new to events, I just want to encourage you that all of us, 50 plus events later or your first one, go through this same get to 30 days and then I want to encourage you just to finish well, because the last 30 are probably going to be some of the most beneficial. Believe it or not, they might even be some of your best stay on clients after that.

The first 30 days out from an event is definitely interesting. I also wonder that, too, when I see people's people say, hey, our event's been sold out well in advance. Like, really?

But you know, I get it. I'm trying because I'm a marketer. I want to be careful not to, like, say that that doesn't happen. But I think that's all this urgency, like people want to be in sold out rooms. And so I'm always struggling with this border of back when I was first a marketer telling the truth didn't seem to matter. But as I've moved up value and integrity scales, I always struggle with some of that. But I understand what they're doing. They're creating a sense of urgency.

Most definitely. Yes and I think there's a creative way to go about it, doing a legitimate and authentic way and it takes a lot more work to do it.

Yeah. I mean, if the truth is in the way, anyone can do it. So yeah, it's a little bit harder and for any of our friends who do that, like there's probably some people who do it really well. And I would watch what they do.

Yeah, absolutely. So you're 30 days out from your event right now and one of the top of mind challenges and opportunities that people oftentimes are asking is, OK, how do I fill my event? Here I am 30 days out from now. Curious to hear from you on that. What are you doing right now? What's working for you right now? Maybe some of the things, lessons you've learned, mistakes you've made when it's come to filling your event.

Now, I do want to say this, like if I'm going to do a live event. I want to be careful. Like I could do a virtual event two Fridays from now. I could throw up a page, even something as easy as one of those listing services just to have me sign up. Right. I could do that right away. As a matter of fact, I highly encourage people to do that if they're trying to get new material out there and build up a list. But even though the last 30 days are hard, I would never start alive of that 30 days out. I would have already been doing the work. So. Where I'm at 30 days, I should be at least 30 days into every day, so to speak, talking about this. So I'm working at trying to. Curate more leads or close more leads, but I'm not literally just starting it, that's a different challenge or it should be a different type of event and you're OK with the size. So what am I doing 30 days out? I'm changing our creatives. I'm like, what's working that you've clicked on it, but you haven't committed. So it looks a lot more like swapping out ad copy or paying attention to I'm a big believer that the only thing we should be doing is what and why. What's the problem? Why should someone come to this event? I think too often we get caught up. Because we get confused who the buyer is, we get confused and that people need to know the how very tactical stuff. Nobody needs the how, not at that level for sure, and so I'm always going back and testing our what's and why's and what's working And then they're going to come to peace. Rudy, my final answer is any person more than just you at the event is a successful event.

So I'm somewhere in like wanting more people there and somewhere at peace with if there's some that are signed up, I got to make sure I'm. There for them, as well as a friend of mine says all the time to me, because I stress at this time and he's a poor daddy, which is my wife, Vinny, who's going to be there is who's going to be there, and then I'm like, well, what about the part that I do to attract them? So somewhere in between our book is probably a fair answer.

Yes, and you mentioned checking the how and or the what and the how, what and the why, but the what and the why seems like the problem and the motivation.

I think a lot of people throw up stuff that is trying to broadly go after people and you end up having a problem getting anybody because you're trying to speak to everybody. Yeah, I think the best work we should all do for events is really dial in who we talk to and try not to talk to four or five groups. So, for example, our newest company property, I was going to say, is Mentor Academy. It is designed for the 45 year old who is a second career person who has wisdom or a subject matter expert in something, but they don't have all the elements to have a thriving coaching practice like a lead gen system or a CRM or how to attract customers or an email list or how to write ads or how to actually run the practice. They want to do the work, but they don't have all those things. So we run all of our stuff to the 45 year old second career professional who wants to take their expertise and offer that as coaching to the next generation of leaders. Well, I know specifically who I'm talking to. I'm not trying to grab a 38 year old. I'm not trying to grab a 60 year old. Will a 42 year old and a 55 year old respond? Yes. But I learned this in my health company. If you go back in my bio, I had a health company and we had a product that was a really popular face cream called Pirabella and we had ads. We were trying to go for the 45 plus, really the 50 plus crowd of women for this face cream. I remember this really bright lady, Shirley, super smart. She said, I was having trouble with conversions. She said, you have the wrong pictures on there. You're attracting with that person with the wrong stuff. She said, every woman wants to see a five or 10 year younger version of themself.

As soon as I clicked that I needed to understand who I was talking to, everything changed for me. So one of the problems I see with live events, it's like, we're open, come and it's too broad and you're having a real problem getting people there because you haven't because of the what and the why you haven't dialed in to who you're actually talking to.

The who being who you're speaking to, but what is the problem or solution that they're looking for? Is that correct?

Who kind of gets solved in a I agree with that, by the way, but the what's the problem for a 45 year old that wants to have a professional coaching practice is that they were doing some other job weeks ago and now they suddenly have to do that. Well, how do they get leads? How do they, all that stuff starts to get in the pressure that stops people from the fear of failure, not taking the shot. So I would speak to that. What's the issue? You reinventing yourself in a second career. Why would you want to come to an event about ours? Because we have built a business in a box system to help you with that. The who is all built in that language. I don't have to say 45 year old.

I just say second career professional because guess what a 45 year is usually someone who's has transition issues and they're dealing with that. So your language should speak to who you're talking to. I think a lot of people, their copy, if they're honest with themselves, are trying to put too broad of a sampling out there Then you're not giving permission to the one you really want there, which then also leads to a problem you and I will talk about later, which is why people don't stick around for your other products.

Hmm. Okay. Yeah. I definitely wanted to hear, talk about that for sure. I think that's a big point and I'm glad we're clarifying a little bit here is one of the problems you see is, and you've experienced in the past is not being super clear on who we're speaking to. Just say, Hey, we're open for business, but not clear on who is for it.

Yeah. We'll do it. You know where we do it really? Like you and I are both entrepreneurs. We do it in the entrepreneur leader craft. We'll say we want seven, eight figure business owners. Like somehow that's niched down. That's, we've not communicated at all to anyone other than they've got revenue in their business. It's a really great example of awful market and we all do it. You can probably go on my page and find me doing it. It's like, and so at what my, my private mastermind, I've realized there's a specific type of leader that I want in that group. And if you go on vinnyfisher .com forward slash the foundry, I encourage you not to go there to like, consider joining up, to go there, to see how dialed in I'm speaking to a specific type of leader. I'd say with that specificity is why I get people to hit that questionnaire and with that, you should challenge yourself. Most people like the word ideal customer or avatar, but they don't do the work.

Yeah. That's a sense. That's a lot of work to get that clarity. But once you have that clarity, it seems like that's the hardest part of.

Well, especially when someone has a credit card and they just want to sign up. So, you know, everything's a nail and you're the hammer. So people get a little broader with their messaging thing. Somehow that's going to get them to get more signups and so I remember when we had at the beginning phase of our hosting company, I bought a brand name and I still have it called niche down to scale up. What I learned was the tighter I can get in my message, it's probably more likely an opportunity that I'm going to scale that business. Like the greatest reason mentor Academy is going to grow off is I've dialed into the 45 year old. My friend Don Miller and them at coach builder, not doing anything wrong. Just very broad. It's a broad message. Now he's made it through with his storytelling staff and I want to knock him. And oh, he's done a great job and I'm personally mentored by John Maxwell. He would speak to a little bit older crowd. So I think if you pay attention to the people who are filling their rooms, you're going to see that they speak to somebody, not everybody.

Thanks for that large conversation, long conversation, but honestly, the best work you can do is, and honestly, I have that for you. You could, you'll probably put it in the show notes, but at our parent company, beyondyourshadow.com/gifts. I have a thing called get to one. It's there. Is that the only thing I'm getting from you is your email. But if they want that, this is like an avatar. There's partly an avatar analysis in there that helps you really look at your stuff and eat your own dog food. Are you honestly know who you're talking to and do that work because your. Copy gets better. Your videos get better. You're the, what the stuff you deliver at the event gets better because you know who you're talking to.

Yeah and we're definitely including that here in the show notes. So I would say, if you're listening to that, you just heard that now go down the show notes, click on that and download it right away because there's a guidance or worksheet you can do to get to this outcome, I think that would be.

There's a whole bunch other there too. So if you're excited about free gifts, there's my team through all a bunch of things in there. But what I really, I think the subject we're talking about is really this ideal customer, this avatar and I think that if more people honestly did that work, I think that they would have definitely an improvement of attendance.

Excellent. Thank you and Vinny, you and I were talking in the green room about, Hey, if I do a great job of selecting, qualifying the right person to be in the room, they are already going to be engaged, right? By that I've selected them properly and I agree with that. I actually had that experience in event. I ran a high-level mastermind a few weeks ago in Cabo, but a lot of effort into the curation selection of a handful of people, we were about 15 people at or high, but because I selected like a really excellent people, it was very, I mean, once we got going, things were very smooth, relatively speaking, per event. It's all relative.

But it's funny, like under the concept of unity, if you, what you did there, if you work at intentionally curating who you want in the room, I gotta be honest with you, I've done that many times. I could probably get up in front of that room and just start asking some very broad questions and facilitate more of questions and not even have a lot of presentation style. So we sweat so much as, as, as event leaders that the, what our agenda in the room, the more you curate and tighten who's in the room, the less I suspect you have to have a super tight agenda. I think the more you're broad about it, you probably have to have a tighter agenda.

Yeah, that makes sense and I also personally experienced that last week. I attended an event last week where it was a very loose agenda. I mean, there was an agenda, but there was like one, one thing per day. Well, it was an extremely highly curated group of people and it just kind of naturally just unfolded.

I got a friend of mine, Giovanni, who does that. He curates the amazing room and then he kind of has more of a network and like, let's get the right people connected in the room. And you'd swear, like leaders like to be led. I don't want to show up to a room where someone's like, okay, now what are we doing? So I want some curation to it, but this idea that we have to sweat about presentations in a curated room is kind of not true.

Okay. That's good. Good insight right there. I'd write that one down. Do it, focus more on the curation and less on the content.

It depends, right? So like if I'm doing these like brunch and learns and you know, what some people call lunch and learns or like a real lead gen event to a specific person, but like, it's my thousand dollar get in. It's my hundred dollar. Okay. That's not a necessarily curated room or a highly curated room. So I would say that where I would want to like, we're running one coming up and this is a, basically an event, a brunch and learn to teach someone how to have a brunch and learn, well, I'm going to give them a very specific cadence as to actually what got them in the room. Here's what you would do to do these yourself. Here's the resources. If you want to go do it. Great. If you want to pay for speed and automation, then let us help you. Like that's the cadence. I don't believe really information should be more highly guarded than an email or an access point. But to the point is like that kind of room, less curated, more wanting the resources, make it a complete agenda. Don't make it open because you want to accomplish an objective, but the highly curated one, matter of fact, I would less agenda that room almost every time that my mastermind will have less agenda than would a brunch and learn.

Okay. Good to know. Thank you. Then we, you mentioned earlier, this idea of you get them to, you have them at the event, they're curated, they're at the event, they're engaged, but then it comes time for helping them sign up for, in your case, your mentorship program. I'm curious to hear from you, how you go about doing it. Like, what are your best practices when it comes to helping?

I have to give a shout out to my personal coach, Kevin Nations. He, by the way, as an aside, this is just on a personal side. I just need to say this. If you're like at lead events or you're a coach in any hot, if you're a high level of what you want to do, or you want to be higher level while you do, and you don't have a coach, I might want to encourage you to rethink that thinking because the highest performing people in any category are being coached. And so that's just an aside. I eat my own dog food. I am a coach and I'm coached. So Kevin is a ridiculously good closer to a room. So he's helped me with what are the right cadence points and what, have you done a good job of putting the right people in the room first off? Then we, in one of these, like what we call three-day events, the last day is really a half day. Have we curated such a good job leading to the half day that you have almost really basically either disqualified or pre-closed the room such that when you make the offer, it's either a heck no or heck Yeah, because we're trying not to have maybes in that room. Yeah. Like the worst close rate ever comes from the maybe right. The pathway of mediocrity. So we try not to be there, but we'll take as many no's. A no is equally a blessing as a yes. Hear that again, folks. A no is maybe even more of a blessing than a yes, because you helped clearly identify what you offer and someone said, no, you didn't convey the value and they don't want it, or the value is conveyed and they're not the right fit. That's as if you can get to no, then you are closer to ever to getting to yes. Cause then I would just say you have the wrong person in the room.

Yeah. Yeah. And how specifically have you learned to go about doing that to help get people to clear yes or clear no?

I've learned in the beginning of beginning of my marketing career and I'm probably cause I have like a little bit of a sales bend in any high passion. I would always try to convince somebody or sell someone into something somewhere along the way. I wrote this in my second book, the CEO's mindset, which they also get with those free gifts if they want, but the idea around value proposition. As I started in my story arc, understanding more about value, I switched from a sales proposition culture to avail value proposition culture. So I don't have to do scarcity countdown timers or sign up by this time to get this. I've basically removed discounts from my system because I value sell, not sell first value. Second, it used to be reversed. I'll be real. You can go back far enough in my story and see where it was sales first, value way second. And as I got better at that, I do less scarcity-tastic stuff. As a matter of fact, scarcity tactics would probably be kinder than what I do. Here's how I close. If you actually want to be really good at what you do and you don't have a coach, then you're probably not going to be really good at what you do. Once you just get out of the way and let the one who wants to do that. So I'm a little bit more of a realist in my kindness and encouragement, I'm a challenger. So I tend to probably close off of helping someone see that they have to take risk and invest in themselves. What I used to say before is, Hey, if you sign up by noon, I'll throw in a picture with me. Like just stupid stuff. Not that anyone wants a picture with me, but I'll throw in a picture with Rudy. Cause that's what you really want.

That's a good, that's a good takeaway there and the point of reflection is where's the focus is a focus on communicating value and value proposition, or is it on selling? I don't think they're necessarily separate per se. I think they're two sides of a coin, right? That's right. But it's like, where is the focus? Where's the intention?

I think if you're not, if you're not leaning on value for the back to what, why, right? So what is the issue and why would someone like want to invest their time and their money in whatever your education and solution have to offer? Like, I think if we're not spending time there, like really delivering and offering the value that we're capable of delivering, then I would argue that maybe we're not the right one to do that and our room should be empty.

I know that doesn't sound highly encouraging listeners, but it is because it's giving you the privilege to be that skilled professional, because if that's the only issue, then you can fix that issue. People feel sold, you know, they're gonna, they might buy the first thing from you, but they're probably not going to buy the second thing from you.

How do you keep them continuing to come with you?

I used to be a really good first time customer seller and I'm learning and I have been learning how to keep a customer.

Tell us a bit more about that. I think that's an important little rip there.

I think it's this discussion we've been having around sales proposition versus value proposition. Am I worried about the initial sale or the lifetime value of our relationship? So if I'm worried about the initial sale, then I'll do everything I can to get you to pull out your credit card. If I'm worried about our lifetime value, I'll do everything I can to make sure you don't forget the value we offer. Because that's ultimately an indicator of customer service. If I have to remember how you're valuable, then whoever that was didn't do a great job of conveying value. So that's really the litmus test for lifetime value is, am I regularly conveying value by the whatever it is we provide to you? And if not, then that's probably going to result in churn rate or turnover of customers.

Yeah and that's big, especially with events. People can come to an event, but if they just leave the event without continuing the relationship with you, likely whatever progress you made at the event is going to wane and life's going to get in the way, distractions will happen, et cetera. That way it's so important to deliver that value, the promise of that event initially, and to be selling based off of value to enroll them based on the value.

I totally agree and you brought up a point there. I really appreciate, Kevin Nation's taught me this, but we'll run these two and a half day events and we'll teach them in such a way that we want someone to leave with every bit of the knowledge so you can go do it yourself. We are really only there to help people who want accountability. So John Wooden was a famous coach. You may or may not know who he is. He's a guy that coached college basketball. So I kind of like sitting under his mentoring, but now he was dead. So it's more like his readings and his stuff. John Maxwell turned me onto this, but personally, actually, and he was asked, John Wooden, in an interview once, can you coach anybody? He said, I can coach anybody. I seem to coach driven people better and I've always attached to that. Like I can coach anybody, but like if I, when I speak to the room, I really want the driven people, the ones who really just need me to hold a mirror up in front of their face and to acknowledge and encourage things. And then the, maybe they wouldn't have seen otherwise and a coach is a performance person, right? How can we help bring out of you what's the best in you? Then also like speak into the potential frameworks or lies that you use to support your confirmation bias and so that's ultimately what we do. So my wisdom part is just cause like, I've been down that road before and I know what it might look like going down that road, but that's a third category and so I tend to speak and want those kinds of rooms and those rooms. If I, if the people that are in there, they're going to want more in that, then they'll sign up. If that's too much for them, then the best thing I did is show them that.

There's the idea of trying to please. Everybody is about the worst business idea out there and then let's say I'm a person of faith. I want to be kind and generous and submissive. I want to be all the fruit of the spirit that's are capable. I am being, it doesn't mean everyone should be my customer. So I can be kind to someone who should come to know. I think if we have to uninvite people from a room, then we haven't done a good job of curating the room.

Which brings us back to the original point of the talk is focus on how do you fill your event and you focus on getting clear on the who and the curation of who is at your event and so many of the upstream challenges are addressed by. By going upstream.

I think most people, and I'll be kind to our audience. I think most people are anxious about the butts in the seat because of the cost ratio and I'd say if you can afford to run smaller groups so that you don't put so much pressure on yourself to have to fill the room with people that otherwise shouldn't be there.

So how do you do that? Go use your buddy's conference room. You know, enough people don't go pay for this hotel minimum that puts you in a spot that you have to have 40 people in the room and three people showed up and make yourself miserable. Cause you're going to run an event. You otherwise would never have run because you boxed yourself into a corner and so I would always encourage someone it's okay to have a three person room. As a matter of fact, that's probably better than a 30 person room with the wrong people in it.

Yeah. Better to have three of the right people than 30 of the wrong people.

Yeah and whatever that mixture is in between people want to believe that from us really, but they still want the bigger room. I mean, we're like church. We still want butts in the seats, right? We want a lot of people there and this is always this thing that a friend of mine, Don said the other day on Facebook, if 15 of my friends called me and said, Vinnie, you are awesome. Great job. I'd be like, Oh man, this is a great day. If 15 people respond to my post, I'm like, what am I a loser? We have this real inverse relationship to the amount of responses and I think that example is how we treat events. We don't think about the 15 people. We want it to be honor and 50 and we will compromise a whole bunch in that continuum.

Awesome. Thank you, Vin. I know we're a little bit over on, but we're going to wrap up here in a moment. As we wrapping up, I just want to encourage our audience to, if you haven't already go down to the show notes, grab all the gifts, the links that Vinnie shared with us, including his book, several books and resources, including the guide on how to niche down to your avatar, the one it'll all be included right here in show notes and go check it out right now, click on the links and download those gifts. Vinnie, what, what kind of final words of advice would you give our audience here as they're reflecting on what you shared with us today?

It's funny. My newest book is the fourth book we've written. It's brand new. It's just out here in the last month plus, and it's called Behind Your Shadow Legacy Through Multiplication. I think there's in there, the principle that I want to give you versus just telling you, go get the book is that how do you multiply your influence and this idea of multiplying your influence, I love that people run live events, like the best live event you can run is the next one in front of you. Go do it. You will learn so much more. Don't not do it. Cause you're waiting for 12 people to be there. Like if only three show up, then that's the size of what your room was supposed to be. But I promise you in that like fear matrix of like feeling like you're failing because the room wasn't big enough. You're going to be so much better at the next event, the one after that event than you ever would have been had you waited to skip when I see my friends cancel. Cause they don't have a big enough room. It breaks my heart. Cause they had an opportunity to learn there and they chose fear of it instead of the opportunity to learn from it. And so be a learn from it, not a fear from it person.

Beautiful. Learn from it. Don't fear from it. Awesome. My friend. Well, thank you. It's been a very insightful interview. I really appreciate the opportunity to pick your brain a little bit with all your decades of experience with events and with business at large. Again, if you're listening to this and you are someone who has been a professional, you've had a past career, you have subject matter expertise, and you are curious of how you can run events. Obviously this is why you listen to this podcast, but also if you, for someone or you yourself want to explore a career as a coach or as a mentor, and you're not already doing so, or maybe you are, but you are looking for support or reach out to Vinny as well with his mentor Academy. I think it sounds like a great resource that you've developed for those professionals.

Yeah. Thanks a lot. I really, I appreciate the time today.

You're welcome, my friend. Thank you again. And I'll see you on the other side.