Content note

This episode includes a brief mention of suicide.

***

Arthritis in dogs is far more common than many people realise, and it does not just affect older dogs.

In this episode of The Yappy Hour, Nathan is joined by Hannah Capon, founder of Canine Arthritis Management (CAM), to talk about the early signs of arthritis in dogs, how pain can affect behaviour, and what dog guardians can do to help their dogs live more comfortable lives.

They explore why arthritis is often missed, why dogs are not necessarily “hiding” pain, and how subtle changes in movement, mood, posture, or behaviour can all be important clues. Hannah also explains why weight, flooring, lifestyle, and exercise choices matter so much for managing joint pain and supporting long-term well-being.

This is an important conversation for anyone living with a dog who seems to be slowing down, moving differently, or showing changes that do not quite feel right.

In this episode, you’ll learn:

✅ Why arthritis is not just an old dog condition

✅ How young dogs can develop arthritis too

✅ The subtle early signs of pain many guardians miss

✅ How pain can influence behaviour, anxiety, and reactivity

✅ Why weight management matters so much

✅ Simple changes at home that can make a big difference

✅ How to approach exercise and movement safely

✅ Why early support can improve a dog’s quality of life

Key takeaway

Dogs with arthritis can still live happy, active, fulfilling lives, but early recognition and the right support matter.

Links and resources

Canine Arthritis Management (CAM)

The Pain Vet

Looking for a qualified professional to support your dog?

Explore trusted, ethical pet businesses on Yappily:

👉 https://yappily.co.uk

The Yappy Hour With Nathan Dunleavy:

Just before we start, I want to

2

give a quick, gentle content note.

3

In this episode, we

briefly mention suicide.

4

If that feels like something that

might be difficult for you today,

5

please feel free to pause, skip, or

come back to it when you're ready.

6

And I am in Christmas PJ's

in March, but who cares?

7

Let's get on with the show.

8

hello everyone and welcome back to

the Yappy Hour, powered by Yappily.

9

I'm your host, Nathan Dunleavy, and

today we're talking about something that

10

affects a huge number of dogs, often

quietly and often earlier than most

11

people realize, and that is arthritis.

12

Many guardians think arthritis

is simply a problem for older

13

dogs, but the reality is,

14

it can begin much earlier and the

signs can sometimes be subtle.

15

Joining me today is Hannah Capon, founder

of Canine Arthritis Management, also

16

known as CAM hannah is a veterinary

professional who has dedicated

17

her work to helping guardians.

18

And professionals better

understand, identify, and support

19

dogs living with arthritis.

20

We are going to explore what arthritis

actually is, how to spot the early

21

signs, and most importantly, what

guardians can do to help their

22

dogs live comfortable, happy lives.

23

If you share your life with a

dog, especially a dog who seems

24

to be slowing down, this is a

conversation you don't want to miss.

25

So grab a cup of tea, settle in.

26

And let's get started.

27

Hannah Capon, welcome to the

Yappy Hour, powered by Yappily.

28

How are you doing?

29

Hannah Capon: Very good.

30

I'm in the snow.

31

I'm up in north of Toronto

by about two, three hours.

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Just having a little

bit of a pain excursion

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The Yappy Hour With Nathan Dunleavy:

Yeah, we were talking off air.

34

Canada's on my list.

35

My, I had an uncle lived in

Vancouver, but, and I want to do

36

the Rocky Martine, free Banff.

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It looks amazing.

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Hannah Capon: that's.

39

That's lovely.

40

But yeah, Canada's a big place and

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The Yappy Hour With Nathan Dunleavy: It.

42

Hannah Capon: very lucky to Yeah,

well I've got, I've got friends from

43

all over the world that are really

fascinated in chronic pain and they've

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got like a huge passion for it.

45

So I'm on a little bit of a painter.

46

I'm trying to see if Netflix would like me

to just do a little documentary about it.

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I think that'd be really important.

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I, I think they, of viewers.

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I'm joking, but if anybody from

Netflix is listening and they think,

50

what a fantastic idea, get in touch.

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The Yappy Hour With Nathan Dunleavy:

Yeah, we're we're plug, we'll plug that

52

a bit and we'll put all your links so

they can get, get in touch with you.

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Han Hannah, for anyone meeting you for

the first time, could you tell us a little

54

bit about yourself and what you do please?

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Hannah Capon: So I'm a vet.

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I am a proud first opinion practitioner.

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I've been qualified now for 24 years.

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I've worked around the place.

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I am a bit of a rolling stone, so I've

worked in big practices, small practices.

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I've done emergency work,

I've done so charge.

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I got interested in chronic pain and

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that it just didn't stack up in practice.

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We were very good at some areas of

veterinary medicine, but we seem

64

to be really neglectful in others.

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it felt very contradictory to be

performing preventative medicine.

66

So fleas, worms, vaccines,

tering, all this.

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we seemed to be not able to really do much

for chronic pain, specifically arthritis.

68

So I got a little bit intrigued and did a.

69

Of further studying, not just

through veterinary boards, but also

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through the allied professionals.

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And I think that's made me a really

strong believer about that team approach.

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'cause I've learned some of the

things that have changed my life

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most from people that aren't vets.

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The Yappy Hour With Nathan Dunleavy: Mm.

75

Hannah Capon: So I did a lot of further

studying and then decided to set up

76

something called Canine Arthritis

Management, which, the aims to provide.

77

Not just education and teaching and

UpToDate current advice, but also empathy

78

and support like psychosocial support

to involved in the chronic pain sector.

79

Be you a vet, be you an allied

professional, be you a caregiver, my

80

ambitions with it is to create a kind

of peripatetic service that supports

81

vets around the world, knowing that

they just don't have the time in

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clinic to offer all that is needed to

actually really create good care plans.

83

The Yappy Hour With Nathan Dunleavy: Yeah.

84

Fascinating.

85

I love that.

86

And when you say Allo professionals,

just so our viewers and listeners, that's

87

like your dog trainers, behaviorists,

and other sort of people you mean?

88

Hannah Capon: so.

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When you, when you think about it.

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So, there's about 24,000

practicing vets in the uk

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The Yappy Hour With Nathan Dunleavy: Wow.

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Hannah Capon: when you look at how

many other professionals that are

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involved and networked with us, as you

say, behaviorist, physiotherapists,

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hydrotherapist, massage therapists,

dog trainers, pet sitters, kennel

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owners, pet shop owners, guys swamp us.

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The Yappy Hour With Nathan Dunleavy: Yeah.

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Hannah Capon: a hundred old.

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And I think we forget how important you

are in that kind of whole ecosystem about

99

that caregiver and that dog, or that cat

or that donkey, that horse, whatever.

100

And so I'm a really strong believer

that the allied professionals need to

101

have more floor space, more air space.

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The Yappy Hour With Nathan Dunleavy:

And I'd love, it's a, a collaborative

103

approach, isn't it, as well, and if you

are all on the same page, it's what's

104

gonna be better for the animal I.

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Hannah Capon: Yeah.

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And that's, and that's the, the ambition.

107

I think sadly humans have

personalities and they have their

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own agendas and they have their own

experiences and future ambitions.

109

So working in a team can actually

really challenging, but I think

110

that's what we should be trying to do.

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The Yappy Hour With Nathan Dunleavy:

Definitely.

112

Was there anything that kind of

sparked your passion for canine

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arthritis and pain management?

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Hannah.

115

Hannah Capon: Having that moment

where you realized you'd seen

116

thousands and thousands of animals

suffering and you had just not really

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connected how they were suffering.

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I think I.

119

Arthritis was the, the spark for me.

120

And it is very frequent that you see

an animal come in and they look stiff.

121

I like, I, I hate that word.

122

Oh, he's really stiff.

123

I'm like, well, that probably

means that he's painful.

124

And of these.

125

Patients haven't actually had attention

to that concern for months, if not years.

126

Oh, he's just getting old.

127

He's just getting stiff.

128

And then when you think about that

lived experience for that animal in

129

our world and they can't do anything

to change it, they're living in our.

130

they're being handled in our way.

131

They're doing the tasks that

we ask them to do, all the

132

whilst living with discomfort.

133

It just, it just triggered me and

I thought, right, supposedly really

134

care about our companion angles.

135

We supposedly have their best interest at

heart, but we seem to be really failing

136

to listen to them and their needs.

137

So that's what triggered it.

138

And then it just, it snowballed.

139

It's gone outta control

if we're really honest.

140

The Yappy Hour With Nathan Dunleavy:

I love it because like people I speak

141

to, like I've had a, a physio with

my dog and she knows all about you.

142

So the message is, spreading and everyone

you speak to knows about a cab and can.

143

So,

144

Hannah Capon: english job that

just can't shut up about it.

145

Yes, that's me.

146

The Yappy Hour With Nathan Dunleavy:

is the best way.

147

Was there a particular like dog or

moment that then led to the creation

148

of CAM in Canine arthritis management?

149

Hannah Capon: Holly, my dog certainly was

a flagship and a very lived experience.

150

But actually no, it was a person.

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I, this is gonna trigger a few

people, so apologies if anybody has

152

problems with the topic of suicide.

153

was working with a vet nurse.

154

There was me Dion, the vet nurse, and

my mate Nikki, and we, we were a trio.

155

We had such a laugh at work, but Dion

had a condition that left her with

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Dysesthesia, which means that her.

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Her somatosensory system.

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So her, her sensations from her skin were

being misinterpreted by her brain as pain,

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so touch, temperature, anything like that.

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She often felt that her skin was on fire.

161

The worst place is be her face,

her chest, her forearms, and worked

162

with her for a good year and a half,

and then found she, she committed,

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she took her own life, so she

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The Yappy Hour With Nathan Dunleavy: Oh

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Hannah Capon: suicide.

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The Yappy Hour With Nathan Dunleavy: my.

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Oh my goodness.

168

Hannah Capon: she had

stolen tel from work.

169

But the real crux of the story is that

she stole it six months before she did

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it because we could trace batch numbers.

171

So for me, it was quite a profound

moment to know that the person that I,

172

I loved Bits worked with, we had such a

good time at work the back of her mind.

173

She was always suffering.

174

And I think that's why I feel a huge.

175

A huge care towards that.

176

Our animals are having lived experiences

that we could never really understand,

177

but depression, anxiety, fear,

but they're in a home and they're

178

getting fed and they go for walks.

179

So people go, oh, they're having a great

time, but are they, so yes, that was,

180

that was the real spark for me was,

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The Yappy Hour With Nathan Dunleavy: Oh

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Hannah Capon: God.

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The Yappy Hour With Nathan Dunleavy: wow.

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Hannah Capon: Yeah.

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The Yappy Hour With Nathan Dunleavy:

What a journey and a, a legacy

186

that she's left as well,

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Hannah Capon: yeah.

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Yeah.

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And I learned a lot from her

'cause she'd come to work and

190

she wouldn't demonstrate pain.

191

And so you, you were hearing that she'd

spent the evening, semi naked in a dark

192

room, unable to drink or eat because

her face felt like it was burning.

193

So if she moved her cheeks,

it felt like it was burning.

194

She couldn't purse her lips together

because it felt like it was burning.

195

The Yappy Hour With Nathan Dunleavy:

Oh my.

196

Hannah Capon: come to work and

work and she'd do an anesthetics

197

when she had, handle, do animals.

198

And I was, but that's because

the brain is where pain is.

199

And distraction and pleasure and all

of these other things that the brain

200

was processing whilst at work would

actually eliminate the, the impact of

201

pain, that overwhelming experience.

202

But when she was on her own and left her

own thoughts, that's when her pain worse.

203

And I think my complete lack of

understanding about pain when

204

I was with her and then she

took her life and I was like.

205

don't know enough about this.

206

So, yeah, that's one of like

the major, major triggers.

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The Yappy Hour With Nathan Dunleavy: Gosh.

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Oh, bless.

209

I, I didn't.

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Hannah Capon: that.

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The Yappy Hour With Nathan Dunleavy:

I didn't add.

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Yeah.

213

It's not often.

214

I'm lost for words, but, wow.

215

Gosh, what a, that's, yeah.

216

I'm just what I like.

217

Hannah Capon: You realize what,

what a responsibility we have.

218

The Yappy Hour With Nathan Dunleavy: Yeah.

219

Yeah.

220

Hannah Capon: our that we need to, we

need to tune into their experience.

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The Yappy Hour With Nathan Dunleavy: Mm.

222

Hannah Capon: And I think, also

sad as the story is, it gave

223

me so much hope that there's so

many more things that we can do.

224

At that point, my understanding of

pain was give them a nonsteroidal,

225

see them again in three weeks

and look where it's driven me.

226

So, yeah, it was, it

was a horrendous time.

227

But also it's definitely

carved a new direction.

228

The Yappy Hour With Nathan Dunleavy:

Yeah, that's, that's inspirational.

229

And what a journey you've

been on to where you are now.

230

Would you say that, what was the biggest

gap you noticed in how arthritis was being

231

misunderstood and mismanaged and stuff?

232

Hannah Capon: I think the biggest gap

is people not seeing the, the signs, the

233

early signs, but they're not really early.

234

When you get it, you get it and you go.

235

That's late.

236

But the change in gait, the

change in behavior, these sorts

237

of things are very visible.

238

People say dogs hide pain.

239

I, I'm not a big believer of that.

240

I think I think we are not very

good at actually picking up on it.

241

have been domesticated

for 33,000 years, come on.

242

Are they still gonna be hiding

pain or could we argue that?

243

Actually, suggest that we are not very

good at picking up on it before we

244

assume that they're hiding it from us.

245

But I think that's a

big, a big knowledge gap.

246

I think that was a big awareness gap.

247

There's still massive problems

with diagnosis because the hu

248

our current approach is finding a

pathology that explains the pain.

249

But we definitely know in the human sector

there's a lot of primary pain conditions

250

where there's no pathology to explain it.

251

So there isn't arthritis.

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There isn't a vertebral anomaly.

253

There isn't a splenic tumor,

but people experience pain.

254

I think we've got a huge.

255

Un unpacking to do there, and

that's a huge growth sector.

256

Then management, we have got quite a

cool toolbox to manage chronic pain.

257

It's still very, what

we'd call biomedical.

258

So it's very much about drugs and

tools and interventions, whereas we

259

know from the human management of

pain, it's very much about lifestyle.

260

It's very much about your emotional state.

261

It's very much about being active.

262

So there's a, there's

a lot still to be done.

263

But the growth in the sector is huge.

264

It's a lot, a lot of interest in it

now, whereas there wasn't 15 years ago.

265

The Yappy Hour With Nathan Dunleavy: Wow.

266

Brilliant.

267

Let's start then with the basics, Hannah.

268

What.

269

What exactly is arthritis?

270

Hannah Capon: Okay, so arthritis

is a localized inflammatory

271

condition of the joints, and there's

different forms of arthritis.

272

So you can have immune mediated,

you can have septic, and

273

you can have osteoarthritis.

274

They're like the three biggies.

275

What we are gonna be talking

about is osteoarthritis.

276

So it's a localized inflammatory

degenerative condition.

277

it's extremely prevalent, so it's

very prevalent in all species.

278

They've even.

279

I've got evidence of

arthritis in the dinosaurs.

280

It's a disease that affects what's called

articulating joints and moving joints.

281

We tend to concentrate on the ones

that are cartilage laden joints.

282

So we're talking about our

knees, our hips our wrists, our

283

elbows, shoulders, et cetera.

284

And it's a disease that is

really associated with pain.

285

'cause if you didn't actually have

the pain of arthritis, it wouldn't

286

be so much of a problem the pain.

287

You get restricted range of

motion of the joints, so it

288

changes the way that you function.

289

but it's really the pain of arthritis,

which is the big clinical sign.

290

The Yappy Hour With Nathan Dunleavy: Okay.

291

Why is it much more

common in dogs than men?

292

Guardians actually realize,

293

Hannah Capon: So there's a

number of reasons that we believe

294

one goes back to awareness.

295

I think there hasn't been

the awareness that is now.

296

Very prevalent.

297

We've got behaviorists

that are saying check.

298

It's not pain until, before we assume

299

The Yappy Hour With Nathan Dunleavy: yeah.

300

Yeah.

301

Hannah Capon: we've got really

big strides in awareness of

302

how dogs and cats express pain.

303

But we've also got in dogs

specifically our choice of breeds.

304

We've got.

305

A really big social drive towards

breeds that don't necessarily

306

have great innate health.

307

they are predisposed to conditions

that lead to early onset arthritis,

308

hip dysplasia, elbow dysplasia,

patella relaxation, osteo

309

osis, angular limb deformities.

310

of these are.

311

Genetically influenced.

312

So they do get, tend to be passed

down in lines and through breeds.

313

Certain breeds are more common

and therefore our social choices

314

are affecting prevalence.

315

So there's a lot of breeds.

316

Oh, and obesity.

317

We've got, got a horrendous

obesity epidemic.

318

About 51% of the canine

population are obese,

319

The Yappy Hour With Nathan Dunleavy:

Oh my.

320

Hannah Capon: and that's a huge

driver of joint related issues.

321

The Yappy Hour With Nathan Dunleavy: Mm.

322

I just wanted to pick up on something

'cause I've always sort of like,

323

I dunno in my train, but led to

believe that a dog does mask pain.

324

But did you say that they, they're

not very good at hiding pain.

325

It's the fact that we miss the subtle

signs and we are not listening to them.

326

Is that what you said?

327

Hannah Capon: So let's take it,

let's take out whether they're

328

good or bad as it, let's just

look at it from the human angle.

329

We've had them domesticated.

330

years.

331

So evolutionary wise, why would

they want to hide pain from us that

332

just plant that little bit of seed?

333

it is not to their advantage to

hide pain from us, their caregivers.

334

The Yappy Hour With Nathan Dunleavy: Hmm.

335

Hannah Capon: I think that.

336

what I know now, is actually really quite

obvious when you take onboard posture

337

change, physical change capability,

and gait changes and behavior changes.

338

So for me, I feel it's more likely that

we are not very good at detecting it.

339

I think it's not that they're

hiding it, I think that they're

340

just getting on with it.

341

Which is a very different thing.

342

Hiding is a conscious decision

of I must not give you any hint

343

that I'm in pain because that

will put me at a disadvantage.

344

and getting on with it is, I don't

believe I've got a choice, so I'm

345

just gonna carry on navigating

living to the best of my ability.

346

So I don't like the word.

347

Hide.

348

I don't really like the word cope because

cope's got a positive intuition to it.

349

It's got, oh, he coped

really well with that.

350

Cope is actually positive and negative,

but in the human language we tend

351

to use it in a positive manner.

352

So I tend to use the word of tolerate

of dogs tolerate pain they don't know

353

that there's an alternative and they're

just trying to get on with living.

354

The Yappy Hour With Nathan Dunleavy: mm

355

Hannah Capon: Um.

356

The Yappy Hour With Nathan Dunleavy:

Yeah, I love that.

357

Hannah Capon: It's my opinion

and I'm gonna stick with it.

358

The Yappy Hour With Nathan Dunleavy:

I think my mind's buzzing.

359

Now this is probably gonna be

dependent on the breed, but is there

360

an age that arthritis can be begin

to develop in our canine companions?

361

Hannah Capon: Yeah, so has been always

attached to a wear and tear condition.

362

So it

363

It's generally been linked to aging.

364

And.

365

That really shows in the figures.

366

So we know that around about 50% of dogs

aren't detected to have OA until they're

367

around about eight to 10 years old.

368

So.

369

It has got that connotation.

370

'cause that's what we see in humans.

371

Arthritis is much more wear and tear

related, but in dogs, because the leading

372

driver is developmental joint disease.

373

So these are joints that

aren't a perfect fit.

374

Arthritis is actually a

disease of the young dog.

375

So this is going to be

dogs that are developing.

376

So arthritis, you can be seeing

it as young as 3, 4, 5 months old.

377

It's not an old dog disease.

378

I.

379

The Yappy Hour With Nathan Dunleavy:

Oh, it's, it's always just been like, I

380

guess like compared to, to older dogs.

381

Like, do you know what I mean?

382

But like it, I'm just thinking

from a human perspective.

383

Like my great nan had it really

bad and now my Nan's got it.

384

But then I know someone that's

in his thirties that's got it.

385

So yeah, it's not, it's

not necessarily older dogs.

386

So older people.

387

Hannah Capon: No, no, not at all.

388

And they did a study over at

NC State, which is a university

389

over in North Carolina.

390

And it was a very simple study.

391

All studies are expensive, so you

got, remember this any study of

392

this caliber is gonna have cost

hundreds of thousands of dollars.

393

But it was very simple in that

they had, the veterinary school

394

used their primary care clinic,

which was attached to the hospital.

395

And they invited people of dogs

that were aged between eight

396

months and four years old come for

free physical health assessment.

397

So all they needed to do was be to be

between eight months and four years

398

old, they got 123 volunteered, they

would get a three physical assessment,

399

including an orthopedic exam,

followed by x-rays of every joint.

400

So when you think about X-raying

two views of every joint, that's

401

a hell of a lot of x-rays per dog.

402

So we're talking about wrist, elbows,

shoulder, hips, stifles hawks, two

403

views of each times that by 123.

404

So that's why it was still

quite an expensive study

405

The Yappy Hour With Nathan Dunleavy: Mm.

406

Hannah Capon: and what

they wanted to look at is.

407

What percentage of those dogs

actually had radiographic signs of

408

early onset arthritis and how many

of them also had pain associated?

409

'cause you can have radiographic signs

of arthritis and no pain, and you can

410

have pain with no radiographic signs.

411

And what they found is that of that

cohort and 40% already had radiographic

412

signs in at least one joint.

413

So eight months to boys old.

414

And 24% of them had pain associated

with a radiographically affected joint.

415

So yeah, it's it's a much bigger

problem than people realize.

416

Mm-hmm.

417

The Yappy Hour With Nathan Dunleavy:

I am one of the staffies that I walk.

418

He's been diagnosed with it in his elbows

but he's gone to like a OA specialist.

419

That specialist there.

420

And they said that he had to lose

weight first before they would

421

look to, to do treatment and stuff.

422

'cause he was a big old bulky boy.

423

Hannah Capon: Yeah.

424

And this is the thing is that there's

so much that we can do about it, and

425

then probably the, the, the biggest, the

biggest thing that we can do keeping our

426

dogs lean from puppyhood throughout life

427

The Yappy Hour With Nathan Dunleavy: Mm.

428

Hannah Capon: It's it's very socially

awkward because like you've just

429

done, don't take offense, but

you're like, oh, he was just choppy.

430

And there's the little smile and you make

light of it, but actually you're killing

431

The Yappy Hour With Nathan Dunleavy:

I and I.

432

Hannah Capon: And, and of us, and this

is what I mean, this interdisciplinary

433

team, it doesn't matter if you're a

pet poner or a vet or a dog walker.

434

It's not funny anymore.

435

The Yappy Hour With Nathan Dunleavy: Mm.

436

Hannah Capon: not funny.

437

And if we all work together to say, your

dog's carrying a bit too much weight.

438

The taboo goes and it's not socially

awkward and people don't get

439

defensive and start assuming you're

fat shaming because we know that the

440

health concerns that come from being

overweight, I'm, it's not just joints.

441

We're talking about their other

physical health, immune health,

442

cardiovascular health, endocrine health.

443

Psycho health.

444

We know that dogs that carry weight

have a more pessimistic outlook on life.

445

know, it's, it's, and it's really weird

we've got so much data, but we are

446

not making any headways getting worse.

447

getting worse.

448

And then you walk into a pet shop, or

all the pet shop owners that listen

449

to your podcast are now gonna hate me.

450

But I'm, I, I'm, I'm not bothered

because it needs to be said.

451

You go into a pet shop.

452

And it's just nothing but treats and

high fats and inappropriate and what?

453

What are we doing?

454

Come on guys.

455

You know what you should be doing is

going in and immediately being hit

456

with a body condition score shot of

where are you at and how can we help

457

you get to where you need to be?

458

sausages and all of their

stuff drives me mad.

459

Drives me mad.

460

'cause we say that we love them.

461

The Yappy Hour With Nathan Dunleavy: But

462

Hannah Capon: are making the

biggest hiccup from day one.

463

The Yappy Hour With Nathan Dunleavy:

yeah, 'cause oh, if you'd loved them, you

464

wouldn't give 'em all the crap, would you?

465

And you'd want them to be healthy

'cause it's gonna prolong their life.

466

Hannah Capon: Yeah.

467

Massively.

468

And we've got strong data to support that.

469

are not just talking a couple

of weeks or a couple of months.

470

We are talking two years.

471

The Yappy Hour With Nathan Dunleavy: Yeah.

472

Hannah Capon: know, so they did

a study and they were looking

473

at like about 40,000 dogs.

474

It was a big study and specifically

in Dins, if they were kept at

475

a lean body weight, they lived

like two and a half years, longer

476

The Yappy Hour With Nathan Dunleavy: Wow.

477

And in a dog's life,

that's a long time really.

478

Hannah Capon: time.

479

Like I hope that I'll make it to maybe 80.

480

So, that's like another 20 years.

481

That's crazy, isn't it?

482

The Yappy Hour With Nathan Dunleavy:

Oh right.

483

The early signs that us guardians

then, or those guardians listening

484

or watching might often miss.

485

So are there some subtle signs

that of arthritis that might

486

be overlooked by guardians?

487

Hannah Capon: I think this is where

the behavior world is really taking,

488

taking hold, and this is great.

489

so we've got to start looking at.

490

What are, what are expected kind of

behaviors that you can logically link?

491

And the, the big one is

fear and anxiety, isn't it?

492

If you are experiencing pain,

pain tells you something's wrong.

493

You need to have an emotional response.

494

That's quite a motivating

emotional response.

495

So it's gonna drive you to

do something about your pain.

496

it is gonna have to be a strong emotion.

497

So fear is a very strong emotion.

498

So.

499

Looking at those kind of like

behavioral changes would be

500

a really good place to start.

501

But many, many behaviors, like I'm

learning, I'm learning from my behavior,

502

friends of like resource guarding.

503

I was like, how does that work?

504

How do we explain that?

505

Obviously we've got our reversive

behaviors of don't pick me up like that.

506

Don't touch me like that.

507

Don't ask me to do that.

508

I never really thought about appeasement.

509

Please don't touch me.

510

Oh, what are you doing?

511

Oh, I'll come up to you and see you.

512

Do you tell me what to do,

but don't touch me there.

513

I learned, I learned a lot from

my behavior friends, like, 'cause

514

I'm not trained in that at all.

515

So going back to your point, I

think behavior changes in behavior.

516

We've got some behaviors that are

really strongly associated, the

517

fears, the anxieties, the aversion,

but there are other behaviors that

518

you go, how does that stack up?

519

But something has changed

and it's not right.

520

So what's underpinning, what

medical complaint could be

521

underpinning that change?

522

Postural changes.

523

I think we're all waiting for a limp.

524

waiting for that really over lameness.

525

But it could be that they're

beginning to sit differently.

526

They're beginning to lay differently.

527

They're, they're slower and more

thoughtful in transitioning from a

528

lay to a stand, they're hesitant.

529

So it's not that they can't do the

stairs, they might think before

530

they do the stairs or they might re

reposition before they get on the couch.

531

So there's loads and loads of stuff.

532

The Yappy Hour With Nathan Dunleavy: Hmm.

533

Hannah Capon: we could be using

to identify signs earlier.

534

The Yappy Hour With Nathan Dunleavy: Yeah.

535

And I only realized recently, or learned

recently that if a dog when a dog goes

536

to go for a poo and they squat, if they

move around a lot, that could be a signal

537

or a sign that they could be in pain.

538

If they're not staying in one

spot and they're moving and.

539

Hannah Capon: Yeah.

540

Yeah.

541

So quite often you can't put anything.

542

As it's definitely made.

543

So that could be in a itchy bum hole.

544

It could be that he's got

really stiff stools and he

545

is really struggling to pass.

546

But if you had a dog that always

toileted in one place, but now they

547

were doing what's called the poo poo

train, so they seemed to like trip

548

a bit and move a bit, drop a bit.

549

If they looked like the ears were

back and they, they looked like they

550

were having a difficult time and

you had other things associated.

551

So some physical changes, the way that

they squatted was a different posture.

552

They were very front end leaning.

553

Go, oh, oh, oh, hmm, there's

something going on here.

554

And then we would like to think that

you can go to the vet and get their

555

opinion that you can get a full clinical

assessment and see what's going on.

556

The Yappy Hour With Nathan Dunleavy:

That he referred it to as a PP train.

557

I've not heard of that one before.

558

Hannah Capon: no, the poo train.

559

Oh, yes.

560

The Yappy Hour With Nathan Dunleavy:

So could behavioral

561

changes be linked in pain?

562

So for example, reluctance to

go for a walk, changes in mood

563

or difficulty settling, could

that be related to arthritis?

564

Hannah Capon: Oh yeah,

yeah, for sure, for sure.

565

When I started my journey, and I'm still

very much at the beginning of my learning

566

journey, I hung out and I still have

friends with Gwen Covey Crump, who's a

567

most beautiful soul, and I can remember

listening to her and reading her articles,

568

and she was always pushing this concept

of, if you see an unexpected change.

569

Check if there's

something underpinning it.

570

And that could be a physical change,

that could be a behavior change,

571

that could be a capability change.

572

check now, this is where it gets difficult

because with age comes change anyway.

573

you are always changing,

influenced by the environment.

574

If you move house, you're gonna change.

575

If you go to a new doggy

daycare, you're gonna change.

576

unpicking whether that

change is medically relevant.

577

really difficult and that's why

it's a bit like detective work.

578

You get a little bit of

information from this.

579

You've got the personality change,

you've got some physical change,

580

you've got some capability change.

581

Oh, actually now I've got enough

I need to check whether there's

582

something else underpinning this.

583

So yeah, it's, it's hard.

584

Chronic pain work is very, very difficult.

585

The Yappy Hour With Nathan Dunleavy: Mm.

586

Hannah Capon: lot reliant on

communication and building a

587

good rapport with your client

588

The Yappy Hour With Nathan Dunleavy: Okay.

589

Hannah Capon: that.

590

That information is then how you work

out whether your intervention's working.

591

So spending time working out

what the subtle signs that

592

suggest they're in pain are.

593

Hang on to them because they're what

you're going to use to see whether your

594

choice of intervention is working of.

595

The Yappy Hour With Nathan Dunleavy: Mm.

596

Yeah.

597

Brilliant.

598

Are there any myths around arthritis

that you'd love to clear up?

599

Once and for all?

600

Hannah Capon: Well, we tackled one of

them about it being old dog disease.

601

It's not.

602

So, please, guys, don't just look at

a three-year-old dog and say, well, it

603

can't be anything to do with his joints.

604

the, the floor is open there.

605

Joints need to be considered

in all stages of a dog's life.

606

I don't know the could,

are there any real myths?

607

Well, there's so many.

608

So, like, he'd, he'd, he'd

he'd tell me if it hurts.

609

The Yappy Hour With Nathan Dunleavy:

Oh God.

610

Yeah.

611

Hannah Capon: if, if, if you're, if you're

looking for him to go, hi, oh, oh, oh,

612

oh, I'm not gonna eat my dinner, or I'm

gonna really, they do tell us that it

613

hurts, but we have to go and look for it.

614

I think that's another one.

615

there's a strong push towards using.

616

Non-pharmaceutical early because

they want to save it for later.

617

I think that's a real problem.

618

I think we need to build a greater

rapport all disciplines to say, well,

619

when you've got pain, the most important

thing is to get rid of the pain and

620

let's use whatever means is possible to

reduce that pain as quickly as possible.

621

Be that pharmaceutical, be that surgery,

be that rehab, be that nutrition.

622

There's a.

623

A people go, well, I don't want to

use meds until I really have to.

624

And you're like,

625

The Yappy Hour With Nathan Dunleavy: Yeah.

626

Hannah Capon: whose benefit?

627

The Yappy Hour With Nathan Dunleavy: Mm.

628

Hannah Capon: That's the lived experience.

629

God, there's so many.

630

Nathan, I could be here afternoon.

631

The Yappy Hour With Nathan Dunleavy:

That's fine.

632

Right.

633

Let's move on to the emotional

impact on our lovely doggies.

634

So living with pain can affect

how a dog experiences the world,

635

but how does it then influence

their behavior and wellbeing?

636

Hannah Capon: So let's

think about what pain is.

637

And then I think it unpacks itself.

638

So pain is a emotional and like

physical physiological experience.

639

So it's called the pain phenomenon because

have an emotional interpretation, you

640

have a cognitive interpretation, but

you also have a physical and physical

641

stress response, physiological, physical.

642

So pain is a really.

643

Massive impact on your body and brain.

644

And pain is generally linked

to there being something wrong.

645

pain is a messenger.

646

So pain is actually a good guy

because he's telling you that

647

something's not right and you

need to do something about it.

648

and it's a very loud messenger because.

649

He's trying to tell us something

really is not right and I need

650

you to do something about it.

651

So pain actually keeps you from harm.

652

It helps you protect yourself to heal,

and it means that you learn from it so you

653

don't do whatever endangered you again.

654

So it is a massive evolutionary

advantage to have pain.

655

If you don't have pain, you

are likely to not survive.

656

You won't know when something's

not working in your body.

657

You won't know when you've

traumatized yourself.

658

You won't know when you've suddenly

got a septic wound, so therefore

659

you're not likely to survive.

660

So pain is really important,

661

The Yappy Hour With Nathan Dunleavy: Mm.

662

Hannah Capon: but uncontrolled pain, I.

663

Is the problem, isn't it?

664

Pain as an alert signal is really

important, but having pain that is

665

persistent in nature no longer serves

purpose is potentially amplifying.

666

That's a, that's a real problem.

667

when you think about pain being this loud,

loud messenger, we've got to think about

668

what kind of impact is that gonna have?

669

gonna have a great

emotional impact, isn't it?

670

'cause it's really telling

you to do something and

671

that's going to lead to being.

672

Quite wound up quite highly aroused,

quite vulnerable, but anxious, but

673

stressed and fearful defensive.

674

So all of those kind of

emotional states make sense.

675

When you think about what pain is

imagine living in those emotional

676

states, always being defensive, always

feeling vulnerable, always being fearful.

677

That's not a person that I wanna

be, and I've, I've tried it.

678

I did a social experiment on myself.

679

I sat in a car.

680

A couple of my friends had been

diagnosed with anxiety, and I

681

was like, what's this about then?

682

So I decided to drive for 20 minutes

and imagine the worst case scenario

683

as I was driving down a motorway,

oh, that car's gonna hit me.

684

Oh God, I think it's gonna suddenly break.

685

Oh, because something's

gonna run out in front of me.

686

And I was like.

687

I don't wanna live like this.

688

This is horrendous.

689

And therefore, I think I have a quite,

quite a good way of making myself

690

feel what it must be like to live with

pain, always being alert, aroused,

691

vulnerable, defensive, fearful.

692

So that's like the emotional impact

that can come with living with pain.

693

The Yappy Hour With Nathan Dunleavy:

Yeah, so you mentioned like anxiety.

694

So would you say that chronic pain can

contribute to anxiety and then reactivity?

695

I.

696

Hannah Capon: behavior friends and

my clinical behavior friends would be

697

able to talk about the, the pathways

and, the, the limbic system and the

698

amygdala and all, bring Daniel shore in

699

The Yappy Hour With Nathan Dunleavy: Oh

700

Hannah Capon: be able to fill the

701

The Yappy Hour With Nathan Dunleavy:

yeah, he is been on.

702

Yeah.

703

Yeah.

704

Hannah Capon: yeah.

705

I can't do that.

706

I, I, I look at it and I

go try and remember it.

707

I can't remember it, but yes,

they're, they're highly associated.

708

The Yappy Hour With Nathan Dunleavy: Yeah.

709

Dan's been on and I expect that

we had Jess HIEs on the other day.

710

I, he, he knew Wow.

711

Was as well.

712

Hannah Capon: friend.

713

Yeah, was of at first.

714

I was absolutely terrified, but

we're quite good friends now.

715

The Yappy Hour With Nathan Dunleavy:

I know she said she loves you.

716

Yeah.

717

Brilliant.

718

I love it.

719

Right, so why is understanding

pain so important for behavior

720

professionals as well as guardians?

721

Hannah Capon: Because pain

is a really good indicator

722

that there's something wrong.

723

So that's our opportunity to identify

these cases and then be able to make

724

their life a life worth living, also by.

725

Modulating their emotions and their

experiences, we can influence their pain.

726

So we know, for example, let

me give you a good example.

727

am driving to work and it is raining

and my car breaks down, and as

728

I walk into work, I stub my toe.

729

My pain experience is

probably gonna be quite.

730

But if I'm driving to work, the

sun's down, I've got a really great,

731

ruthless car, whatever they're called.

732

I stop off and I get a lottery

ticket and I win 250,000 and

733

I walk in and I stub my toe.

734

Probably gonna be that bothered.

735

our pain experience is very much affected

by our emotional state at that time.

736

The Yappy Hour With Nathan Dunleavy: Mm.

737

Hannah Capon: if we can work on

improving the emotional state,

738

we can influence the pain.

739

So they're really highly interconnected.

740

The Yappy Hour With Nathan Dunleavy: Yeah.

741

Brilliant.

742

Love that.

743

So, supporting these lovely dogs

with arthritis, if it's been

744

identified that they've got it.

745

Where should guardians begin?

746

Hannah Capon: So this

is really, it is tricky.

747

In an ideal world, we would like the

following flow diagram to happen.

748

So the caregiver, the guardian,

that there's something wrong.

749

Then they take that information in

a very, very easily interpretable

750

manner to the vet who's got 15

minutes back-to-back consults.

751

Really busy practice,

and they go, all right.

752

So you've noticed that your dog's changed.

753

They've become quite

aversive to being handled.

754

You've seen that they've

got quite an arched back.

755

You've seen them lame a

couple of times, right?

756

I hear what you're saying.

757

I'm going to go and have a look.

758

So first part of the

journey doesn't always work.

759

you've got to have a practitioner

that, dare I say, has got.

760

The capacity at that time to pick up

on what can be a bit more subtle, then

761

what would be ideal is that we pursue

a diagnosis to the best of our ability.

762

So if there was a suspicion that there

was, say, painful hips, it would be lovely

763

to take the next step of doing a sedation,

x-rays, confirmed findings, et cetera.

764

And then from there, it'd be lovely

for the vet to say this is what's

765

called a multimodal approach.

766

So your dog needs to trim down.

767

Here's an anti-inflammatory.

768

Here's Omega-3 supplement.

769

I'd like you to see my colleague who's

a physiotherapist for some, functional

770

work to try and improve resilience.

771

Functional capacity.

772

Brilliant.

773

We're all connected.

774

We're all gonna keep working together.

775

Your reversive behavior that you've been

seeing, popping and seeing my behavior

776

friend, they'll give you some tips of how

we can actually make sure that that dog.

777

Extinguishes those associations and

starts with a more positive mindset.

778

That's what we'd love to happen.

779

Unfortunately doesn't, and there's

many, many stumbling blocks.

780

Quite often a caregiver will come

to the vet and go, something wrong.

781

You like, okay, It's

just something not right.

782

You're like, okay, where do I start?

783

The Yappy Hour With Nathan Dunleavy:

Or they say they're just lame.

784

The lame gets thrown around, doesn't it?

785

Hannah Capon: Yeah.

786

Lateness gets thrown around a lot

and, I think what I'm trying to get

787

across is please collect data, right?

788

Because say you went in and said,

my dog's intermittently lame,

789

but when you walk in, that dog's

not lame at all and he's bright.

790

It's a button because he's highly

aroused that vet's going right.

791

Ideally.

792

We should do x-rays, but that's

gonna be about six, 700 quid.

793

And ideally, I should put this

dog on an anti-inflammatory that's

794

gonna be 80 to 120 pounds a month,

it could cause a bit of diarrhea.

795

They're not convinced

that their dog's in pain.

796

I can't see that their dog's in pain.

797

I don't wanna do that because I'm gonna

destabilize my relationship with that

798

ve uh, with that caregiver if they

don't really believe there's a problem

799

and that dog then gets a little bit

diarrhea and they've paid 150 quid to

800

get that, they're not gonna like me.

801

So that's just one mini scenario of

many things that are happening in

802

Yvette's brain in the context of that

15 minute small room of experience.

803

So go with good information.

804

The Yappy Hour With Nathan Dunleavy:

Definitely.

805

Are there any simple changes that

guardians can make at home to help

806

their dog feel more comfortable?

807

Hannah Capon: Yeah, I'm, I'm

known for more rugs, less drugs.

808

I'm, I'm just, when you see it,

809

The Yappy Hour With Nathan Dunleavy:

more bugs, less drugs, less.

810

Hannah Capon: drugs.

811

Yeah.

812

It started years ago when I was doing

my mobile service and I was going to

813

people's houses and their dogs were

physically debilitated and I was thinking.

814

They can't walk across that

floor, can't you see that?

815

Their ears go back, they tense

up, they stiff, they don't

816

want to go there, they slip.

817

And I was like, this is crazy.

818

Why aren't, why aren't we seeing this?

819

I've, it first started off for

dogs that were debilitated,

820

but now I'm across the board.

821

Even if they haven't got musculoskeletal

health problems, they're spending

822

95% of their life in a house.

823

With slippery floors and they run to the

front door and the postman and they slide.

824

If they run into the kitchen

for fin time, they slide.

825

I'm thinking, how many soft tissue

injuries are we seeing that are actually

826

occurring in the home environment?

827

So for me, just have a really

big thing about flooring.

828

They're not designed for pets.

829

They're designed for

us to keep them clean.

830

It's not in the animal's interest.

831

They prefer carpet.

832

The Yappy Hour With Nathan Dunleavy: Yeah.

833

Yeah.

834

Nice.

835

Comfy carpet or rug.

836

Hannah Capon: Yeah, they just want grip.

837

They want traction.

838

The Yappy Hour With Nathan Dunleavy: Yeah.

839

Yeah.

840

You wouldn't wanna walk across

the hard floor all the time.

841

Would you maybe say, why should they?

842

Hannah Capon: feet aren't designed.

843

They, they're designed for

external terrain, so the pads

844

aren't offering any grip.

845

They, they become hyper

keratinized and shiny.

846

The claws can't engage with a hard floor.

847

The Yappy Hour With Nathan Dunleavy: Hmm.

848

Hannah Capon: got breeds that have

lots and lots of fur between the

849

pads that quite often overly the pad.

850

So you actually really look at

dogs', feet, they're not like cats.

851

Cats have a little bit more of stick.

852

The pads are different.

853

Dogs aren't designed to engage with the

terrain in the house that we put them on.

854

The Yappy Hour With Nathan Dunleavy: Hmm.

855

Yeah.

856

Well, and just obviously like from

our perspective, we, we, it's probably

857

like a cosmetic thing, isn't it?

858

But we need to be setting

them up for success, so.

859

Hannah Capon: Yeah, exactly.

860

The Yappy Hour With Nathan Dunleavy: More

bugs exercise, movement and lifestyle.

861

So many gardens worry about exercise

and dogs with arthritis, but how

862

should movement be approached?

863

Tanana.

864

Hannah Capon: So we know that mobility

is absolutely essential for life.

865

So all of our physiological

systems rely on movement.

866

Our cardiovascular, our lymphatic

system, our gastrointestinal system,

867

we are designed to move and many

of the health concerns that we

868

have for even psychological are

related to sedentary behaviors.

869

So we know movement is really,

really important, and movement in

870

ill health is equally important.

871

It just has to be

modulated to our capacity.

872

So with these dogs that have arthritis,

and bear in mind, you can have very

873

mildly affected and they're still.

874

Flyball you can have them

very, very severely affected

875

and they can hardly stand.

876

So arthritis is a big spectrum, but we're

keeping them moving to the best of our

877

ability is really, really important.

878

the way that I tend to advise clients.

879

bit different and sometimes it's a bit

too much for people, but I'm a strong

880

believer that I give my clients the

tools to make the right decisions.

881

I talk about being proactive,

reactive, and reflective.

882

Little and often is a bit too vague

'cause people don't know what that means.

883

But

884

The Yappy Hour With Nathan Dunleavy: Okay.

885

Hannah Capon: I mean by the PRR means.

886

Look at your dog and think about what

can they safely do So proactively

887

think about what would be the

right exercise, the right duration,

888

frequency, terrain activity.

889

Are they in a good

position to do that safely?

890

Then when you are doing your

exercise, you might have got it wrong.

891

They might be having a bad day.

892

So look at what they're saying to you.

893

So if they're slowing down, if

their tail drops, if their ears go

894

back, if they start lagging behind.

895

That's time to go home.

896

know, you are risking

making them more painful.

897

Their tissues are fatiguing.

898

And then be reflective when you're

at home, go, oh, do you know what?

899

Today we did only 20 minutes.

900

Normally we do 30.

901

Okay.

902

For the next few days

we're gonna stick to 20.

903

Let's see if we perks up out of this.

904

So we need to put away our phones.

905

need to.

906

Walk our dogs and be with our dogs.

907

That's why we do it, isn't it?

908

That's why we have dogs is

to have their companionship.

909

The Yappy Hour With Nathan Dunleavy: Yeah.

910

Hannah Capon: we need to be thinking,

what, what are we gonna do today?

911

How are you coping with today?

912

Did you enjoy today?

913

The Yappy Hour With Nathan Dunleavy: Mm.

914

Hannah Capon: that information

to carve out that that

915

exercise plan that suits them.

916

The Yappy Hour With Nathan Dunleavy:

Brilliant.

917

Yeah.

918

And is there any types of activity,

exercise that are helpful?

919

So I'm assuming like physio, Hydra.

920

Hannah Capon: Yeah,

they're definitely helpful.

921

But I do also know that

we're in an economic crisis.

922

Many people have pets and can't

afford those type of interventions.

923

mean that you still can't do

amazing stuff with your dogs.

924

So we are looking at low impacts.

925

Less torsional forces.

926

So what we mean by that

is think of a joint.

927

If you're coming down from a, a

high up there and bang, that's

928

effectively what's happening in that

joint and that's gonna aggravate it.

929

Or twisting, that's gonna

really aggravate the joint.

930

you've gotta think about all the

tissues around the joint as well.

931

So joint doesn't sit on its own.

932

It's got the joint capsule, it's

got ligaments, it's got muscles

933

that bridge over the joint.

934

All of them are gonna be affected by

these high impact, high torsional forces.

935

So trying to veer away from that

kind of activity and doing more, uh.

936

More kind of kind movements and

pushing on functional movements.

937

So bending, stretching,

different terrain, what we call

938

different proprioceptive input.

939

So different challenges but

are safe looking at trying

940

to improve on the resilience.

941

So the amount that they can do.

942

So I would be steering

clear of ball throwing,

943

The Yappy Hour With Nathan Dunleavy: Yeah.

944

Hannah Capon: a ball loving dog,

I would take the ball 'cause it

945

gives 'em pleasure and I'd hide it.

946

And ask them to go find it.

947

The Yappy Hour With Nathan Dunleavy: Mm,

948

Hannah Capon: that sort of thing.

949

The Yappy Hour With Nathan Dunleavy:

ball fair?

950

Is there a bit of a

contentious issue, aren't they?

951

Hannah Capon: I have had hate now

because I'm outlandish enough to

952

say that I think it's inappropriate.

953

For me, it's no different to

putting heroin for sale for kids.

954

We know that dogs have an

extremely compulsive type.

955

Demeanor.

956

I've got a border collie.

957

She would run to death to chase balls.

958

She would just has no off switch.

959

If you get a ball out, I'd

lose her, her eyes just go

960

The Yappy Hour With Nathan Dunleavy:

So just takes over him.

961

Hannah Capon: Just gone.

962

And I don't think we realize

how powerful that is.

963

Now.

964

There's many people that

use it very successfully,

965

sporting and for working dogs.

966

And I'm not saying you don't if that,

if that's your thing, but be mindful

967

that in when they're like that,

they're gonna push past physical.

968

Capacity.

969

And if they're not physically capable

of doing that kind of activity, they,

970

they could push themselves over.

971

And I, I've, I've got a

problem with it with young dogs

972

got a problem with old dogs

973

I don't think people

realize what a weapon it is.

974

It's not, it's not a bad thing

if you know what you are doing,

975

The Yappy Hour With Nathan Dunleavy: Yeah.

976

Hannah Capon: I don't think

that it's marketed with people

977

realizing how damaging they can be.

978

The Yappy Hour With Nathan Dunleavy:

And it's that repetitive repetitiveness

979

isn't it, as well, and that and that

impact it can have on like the joints.

980

Hannah Capon: Oh yeah.

981

also the fact that humans are getting

lazier and we're going to the park and

982

we're getting out the pool chucker,

and we don't wanna do the activity.

983

We don't even wanna bend down anymore.

984

The Yappy Hour With Nathan Dunleavy: Well,

985

Hannah Capon: want to use a

blue chucker to pick it up at

986

The Yappy Hour With Nathan Dunleavy:

what you s.

987

Hannah Capon: we're gonna,

988

The Yappy Hour With Nathan Dunleavy:

See is they've just sat

989

there and it's on repeat.

990

Sat there on a, on a chair,

and there's this bull friend.

991

The dog's just going

bloody nuts back and forth.

992

Hannah Capon: Yeah, and I, I

feel bad 'cause there's gonna be

993

people that are, are gonna be.

994

Triggered by that.

995

But just before getting defensive,

before lashing back, just

996

taking time to think about it.

997

I used to throw bulls,

used to throw bulls all the

998

The Yappy Hour With Nathan Dunleavy: Yeah.

999

Hannah Capon: until I really thought

about it and thought, crikey.

00:48:58,677 --> 00:49:02,457

And I, I contributed to my dog,

Holly, the flagship of Cam.

00:49:03,717 --> 00:49:04,557

to her ill health.

00:49:05,367 --> 00:49:05,997

I didn't know better.

00:49:06,867 --> 00:49:09,537

But when you think about it, you're

like, God, it makes a lot of sense.

00:49:09,987 --> 00:49:13,767

And that one person said to me years

ago, you have a dog to be your companion.

00:49:13,767 --> 00:49:16,107

Why would you keep making

it run far away from you?

00:49:16,527 --> 00:49:18,597

And I was like, that's

a pretty good point.

00:49:20,997 --> 00:49:23,307

The Yappy Hour With Nathan Dunleavy:

Is there anything other than bull froze

00:49:23,307 --> 00:49:24,957

that guardians should avoid at all?

00:49:28,197 --> 00:49:28,857

Hannah Capon: Difficult.

00:49:28,887 --> 00:49:31,587

It's really difficult 'cause it,

it really is on the guardian and

00:49:31,587 --> 00:49:34,407

what you're doing with the dog and

whether you're doing it safely.

00:49:34,457 --> 00:49:41,537

I think, I think biggest thing is

take time think about what you're

00:49:41,537 --> 00:49:45,707

doing and does it make sense for

your dog and your dog's capacity?

00:49:47,477 --> 00:49:48,317

'cause anything.

00:49:48,962 --> 00:49:54,242

Being done inappropriately and repetitive

repetitively could be, could be harmful.

00:49:54,992 --> 00:49:56,012

But let's go back to weights.

00:49:56,012 --> 00:49:57,512

Let's just make this one about weights.

00:49:57,902 --> 00:50:01,322

Seriously, guys, you put your

hands in for those treats.

00:50:01,322 --> 00:50:02,192

Look at your dog.

00:50:02,192 --> 00:50:03,092

Look at the waistline.

00:50:03,092 --> 00:50:04,322

Have they got a rib cage?

00:50:04,622 --> 00:50:05,882

Do they need it?

00:50:06,512 --> 00:50:08,822

Oh, you doing it for them or

you doing it for yourself?

00:50:10,742 --> 00:50:12,092

The Yappy Hour With Nathan Dunleavy:

Definitely Hannah.

00:50:12,092 --> 00:50:13,862

We've literally sailed

through this episode.

00:50:13,982 --> 00:50:14,702

It's been amazing.

00:50:14,702 --> 00:50:17,942

So we're gonna spend the next

five minutes just wrapping up with

00:50:17,942 --> 00:50:19,592

some final questions and thoughts.

00:50:19,592 --> 00:50:21,257

So Cam and how can.

00:50:21,842 --> 00:50:26,942

On these dog guardians, can you tell

us more about the work that Cam does to

00:50:26,942 --> 00:50:29,552

support both guardians and professionals?

00:50:31,222 --> 00:50:32,992

Hannah Capon: Yeah, so

Cam didn't have a plan.

00:50:32,992 --> 00:50:36,982

Cam was Hannah, just angry and

00:50:36,982 --> 00:50:43,342

been trying to shape it into per

support service for the last, what?

00:50:43,642 --> 00:50:45,412

God, it's 11 years, 12 years now.

00:50:45,772 --> 00:50:47,122

13 years even worse.

00:50:48,592 --> 00:50:51,862

so Cam is designed to support caregivers.

00:50:53,037 --> 00:50:55,977

The canine professional world and

the veterinary professional world

00:50:55,977 --> 00:51:00,087

because chronic pain is way more

complex than we give it credit.

00:51:00,417 --> 00:51:02,937

It is not a pill and

see you in three months.

00:51:03,177 --> 00:51:07,197

It is not just hydrotherapy,

it's not just weight loss.

00:51:07,257 --> 00:51:12,092

Chronic pain management is complex and

I wanted to create a place where people.

00:51:13,012 --> 00:51:17,962

Could lap up that information in a

really empathetic, practical manner.

00:51:18,382 --> 00:51:22,102

So I'm hoping that we've now got a

website, which we are rebuilding.

00:51:22,102 --> 00:51:26,572

We're rebuilding, we are rebuilding you

could go to and get what you need or

00:51:26,572 --> 00:51:27,922

you could at least start your journey.

00:51:28,342 --> 00:51:32,722

So, I would love caregivers to go look,

I would love canine and veterinary

00:51:32,722 --> 00:51:34,552

professionals to use the resource.

00:51:34,752 --> 00:51:39,042

Resources and encourage their clients

to go to the, to their website.

00:51:39,822 --> 00:51:44,142

We have a member zone, so we can

actually really put more into it now,

00:51:44,142 --> 00:51:46,722

and we are financially independent.

00:51:46,752 --> 00:51:51,522

So what I say is not affected

by drug company sponsoring me.

00:51:51,892 --> 00:51:55,012

So that's really important to

us that we remain independent.

00:51:55,012 --> 00:51:56,422

So therefore we do need an income.

00:51:56,422 --> 00:52:02,302

So it's 35 pounds for the year to

join cam, which is half the cost

00:52:02,302 --> 00:52:04,132

of seeing a vet for 15 minutes.

00:52:04,512 --> 00:52:04,802

The Yappy Hour With Nathan Dunleavy: Yeah.

00:52:05,932 --> 00:52:09,472

Hannah Capon: and we do lots and lots

of, I I, professor Alex German in

00:52:09,472 --> 00:52:11,062

the member zone only two nights ago.

00:52:11,062 --> 00:52:15,322

He's world class speaker about

obesity management with all of these

00:52:15,322 --> 00:52:18,457

really high-end speakers that you're

not gonna have access to elsewhere.

00:52:19,232 --> 00:52:21,302

And it's for a mere 35

pounds for the year.

00:52:22,142 --> 00:52:23,702

we do lots of conferences.

00:52:23,702 --> 00:52:28,142

So we've got the Chronic Pain symposium

coming up in April, the 24th to 26th.

00:52:28,892 --> 00:52:32,402

is truly interdisciplinary, so

it's for canine professionals

00:52:32,432 --> 00:52:34,682

and veterinary professionals

so that we can learn together.

00:52:35,492 --> 00:52:35,882

do that.

00:52:35,882 --> 00:52:37,742

We do lots of conferences.

00:52:37,862 --> 00:52:40,592

We do practice trainings, we

do rehab clinic trainings.

00:52:40,592 --> 00:52:44,492

We've got courses in our

education center for vets, nurses.

00:52:44,917 --> 00:52:46,687

Canine professionals and caregivers.

00:52:47,137 --> 00:52:50,197

So if you want to go and learn more

and it, maybe you're a dog walker and

00:52:50,197 --> 00:52:53,077

you're like, I need to learn more,

please go and do cam advocate level two.

00:52:53,467 --> 00:52:56,017

You might be a vet nurse that's

got quite a good understanding,

00:52:56,017 --> 00:52:57,277

but you want more Go do cam.

00:52:57,277 --> 00:52:58,267

Veterinary practitioner.

00:52:58,267 --> 00:52:59,587

There's lots and lots out there.

00:53:00,367 --> 00:53:02,077

got shop cam, online shop.

00:53:02,257 --> 00:53:05,602

But my, my little passion project

at the moment is the pain va.

00:53:06,722 --> 00:53:12,812

So it's a subsidiary of Cam because over

the last 13 years, I've had so many people

00:53:12,812 --> 00:53:18,572

approach me for advice, and I've been very

constrained because I'm not their vet.

00:53:19,352 --> 00:53:22,602

there's a rule, you are

under your vet's care.

00:53:23,862 --> 00:53:27,012

having got loads of messages and

emails and having done it first.

00:53:27,387 --> 00:53:28,077

13 years.

00:53:28,077 --> 00:53:33,477

I approached the Royal Vet College

and said, can I set up a service

00:53:33,477 --> 00:53:39,417

where I could be a per pathetic to

that person's vet that I could do

00:53:39,417 --> 00:53:41,727

a lot of the legwork for that vet.

00:53:42,157 --> 00:53:44,497

But the vet retains charge of the case.

00:53:44,497 --> 00:53:47,047

So they'll do the x-rays,

they'll sell the drugs, they'll

00:53:47,052 --> 00:53:48,397

all sell the prescription food.

00:53:49,567 --> 00:53:53,107

we've been working me James Hunt,

Katie Smithers and Evie Tubman.

00:53:53,167 --> 00:53:54,337

It's called the Pain Vet.

00:53:54,337 --> 00:53:55,507

It's the pain vet.co

00:53:55,512 --> 00:53:55,862

at uk.

00:53:56,602 --> 00:54:01,402

And it's a way that if you've got a case

that needs more time, you've got a case

00:54:01,402 --> 00:54:02,572

that you can't get to the bottom of.

00:54:03,052 --> 00:54:06,232

You've got a case where the vets doesn't

think it's pain, but you think it is.

00:54:06,622 --> 00:54:11,752

There's so many reasons to use

the service the way it works is

00:54:12,502 --> 00:54:15,862

you book an appointment, you can

see Evie for 10 minutes for free.

00:54:15,862 --> 00:54:17,062

She's our a nurse.

00:54:17,062 --> 00:54:17,572

She's amazing.

00:54:17,572 --> 00:54:18,892

She does the discovery calls.

00:54:19,657 --> 00:54:22,177

Or you can see Katie, James,

or me, and we all have our

00:54:22,177 --> 00:54:23,797

passion in, in pain management.

00:54:24,577 --> 00:54:27,997

You send in photos and videos, you fill

in a questionnaire quite extensive.

00:54:27,997 --> 00:54:31,927

You finish finish in a pain questionnaire,

we get your veterinary history.

00:54:32,377 --> 00:54:33,457

We go through all of that.

00:54:33,457 --> 00:54:36,667

Takes probably about two hours

to go through all of your info.

00:54:37,147 --> 00:54:41,167

And then we have an hour online with

you talking about your case, coming up

00:54:41,167 --> 00:54:44,767

with a management plan, and we create

a report that goes to you and your vet.

00:54:45,217 --> 00:54:46,267

So we really.

00:54:46,672 --> 00:54:48,472

Set you up for success.

00:54:48,562 --> 00:54:51,622

And that's been something that I've

been working on for a while and I think

00:54:51,622 --> 00:54:53,662

people are quite cautious about it.

00:54:53,662 --> 00:54:55,882

They're not really sure how it works.

00:54:56,692 --> 00:55:00,772

The amount of inquiries and the amount

of movement on Holly's army or community

00:55:00,772 --> 00:55:05,122

group, or how much movement there's on

CAM or social media, I know it's needed.

00:55:05,512 --> 00:55:08,782

It's just trying to get people

to change their social habits.

00:55:09,082 --> 00:55:11,842

Most people just go, oh, well I'll

just go and see my vet, but then

00:55:11,842 --> 00:55:14,242

they'll come back online, go, my vet

didn't do anything to help me out,

00:55:14,292 --> 00:55:14,582

The Yappy Hour With Nathan Dunleavy: yeah.

00:55:14,697 --> 00:55:18,432

Hannah Capon: There's another

way, but yeah, I'm hoping that I'm

00:55:18,642 --> 00:55:23,442

working towards creating a project

that really supports my profession.

00:55:23,927 --> 00:55:24,147

The Yappy Hour With Nathan Dunleavy: Mm

00:55:24,732 --> 00:55:26,952

Hannah Capon: it continues

to grow the chronic pain.

00:55:28,362 --> 00:55:29,112

Sector.

00:55:29,202 --> 00:55:30,762

'cause I'm learning loads and I

00:55:30,847 --> 00:55:31,067

The Yappy Hour With Nathan Dunleavy: mm

00:55:31,392 --> 00:55:31,572

Hannah Capon: it.

00:55:32,532 --> 00:55:36,882

I feel that we're hopefully bridging a

gap for dog trainers and behaviorists

00:55:36,882 --> 00:55:40,272

that have cases that they think

have pain involved, but the vet

00:55:40,272 --> 00:55:41,922

and them not really maybe gelling.

00:55:42,612 --> 00:55:43,302

The Yappy Hour With Nathan Dunleavy:

Tricky, isn't it?

00:55:43,302 --> 00:55:43,962

Sometimes.

00:55:45,102 --> 00:55:48,672

Hannah Capon: Zach, they, and then for

caregivers that want more than 15 minutes,

00:55:48,772 --> 00:55:50,302

The Yappy Hour With Nathan Dunleavy:

mm, right

00:55:50,317 --> 00:55:50,977

Hannah Capon: so there's lots going on.

00:55:51,622 --> 00:55:51,712

The Yappy Hour With Nathan Dunleavy: now.

00:55:51,712 --> 00:55:52,372

That's amazing.

00:55:52,372 --> 00:55:55,582

So I'll put that link in the show, but

how can people get in touch with you

00:55:55,582 --> 00:55:57,232

or if they wanna know more about Cam?

00:55:58,522 --> 00:56:02,362

Hannah Capon: So if you want to know

more about Cam, go to canine arthritis.co

00:56:02,362 --> 00:56:02,932

uk.

00:56:04,042 --> 00:56:07,222

and you now can be channeled

into being a caregiver

00:56:07,277 --> 00:56:07,437

The Yappy Hour With Nathan Dunleavy: that.

00:56:07,552 --> 00:56:07,612

Hannah Capon: on.

00:56:08,602 --> 00:56:12,742

Yeah, behind the scenes we're

rebuilding the websites again.

00:56:12,742 --> 00:56:15,622

So at the moment, the front end

is perfect, all the resources

00:56:15,622 --> 00:56:20,572

are great, but the actual owner

website, I'm rewriting there again,

00:56:20,932 --> 00:56:22,642

that's gonna be the third time.

00:56:23,302 --> 00:56:24,932

We're rebuilding the member zone as.

00:56:25,062 --> 00:56:27,822

Well, so you can access the members

owned via that website and you can

00:56:27,822 --> 00:56:29,982

access all of our social media or shop.

00:56:29,982 --> 00:56:33,492

You can even donate via that

website if you quite like.

00:56:33,862 --> 00:56:38,772

But that would be where, and if you wanna

get hold of me hello@caninearthritis.co

00:56:38,772 --> 00:56:39,132

at uk.

00:56:40,207 --> 00:56:41,497

The Yappy Hour With Nathan Dunleavy:

I'll put all the bits in the show

00:56:41,497 --> 00:56:45,727

notes, but what me message as we

wrap up, would you love every dog

00:56:45,727 --> 00:56:47,972

guardian to take away about arthritis?

00:56:47,972 --> 00:56:48,252

Hannah.

00:56:49,897 --> 00:56:52,567

Hannah Capon: Please attend to it early.

00:56:53,182 --> 00:56:59,242

I think the thing that breaks my heart

is that dogs are so bloody lovely.

00:57:00,022 --> 00:57:04,342

They put up with so much, and I

see the cases they come in and

00:57:04,342 --> 00:57:05,872

they're really quite debilitated.

00:57:06,292 --> 00:57:09,592

And you think to yourself, you've

been living with pain for a few years

00:57:09,592 --> 00:57:12,502

now and you've been picked up and

put in the back of the car and you've

00:57:12,502 --> 00:57:14,362

been walked and you've overdone it.

00:57:14,362 --> 00:57:18,622

And all of these times that haven't

recognized that you are really saw.

00:57:18,622 --> 00:57:20,892

And I don't know, have you,

have you ever, you ever got

00:57:20,892 --> 00:57:22,212

delayed onset muscle soreness?

00:57:22,212 --> 00:57:25,513

Have you ever been to the gym and you've

overdone it and you're like, oh my God,

00:57:25,932 --> 00:57:27,672

The Yappy Hour With Nathan Dunleavy: I

haven't been to the gym for a long time.

00:57:29,357 --> 00:57:29,597

I do.

00:57:29,772 --> 00:57:30,192

I do.

00:57:30,552 --> 00:57:31,962

I've done yoga in my time.

00:57:32,142 --> 00:57:32,892

I love yoga.

00:57:33,133 --> 00:57:36,133

Hannah Capon: Have you ever done it where

two days later you can't move, you're

00:57:36,252 --> 00:57:36,402

The Yappy Hour With Nathan Dunleavy: Yeah.

00:57:36,942 --> 00:57:37,182

Yeah.

00:57:37,182 --> 00:57:37,542

Yeah.

00:57:38,533 --> 00:57:40,962

Hannah Capon: and how would

it make you feel to think that

00:57:40,962 --> 00:57:45,493

your dog was going through that

indefinitely and no one heard them?

00:57:45,712 --> 00:57:46,062

The Yappy Hour With Nathan Dunleavy:

Awful.

00:57:46,863 --> 00:57:47,343

Absolutely awful.

00:57:47,908 --> 00:57:50,502

I'd wanna advocate for

them, make it all better.

00:57:51,673 --> 00:57:52,573

Hannah Capon: Exactly.

00:57:52,933 --> 00:57:56,383

So please, caregivers, if you're

in fear of going to the vet, you're

00:57:56,383 --> 00:57:57,493

in fear of what they're saying.

00:57:57,493 --> 00:58:00,433

You're in fear of bills, you

are in fear of medication.

00:58:00,433 --> 00:58:03,853

Whatever it is, you are in fear

of your dog's, not your dog's

00:58:03,942 --> 00:58:08,232

living the experience, and it's

your duty of care to go and get

00:58:08,232 --> 00:58:09,228

them the attention that they need.

00:58:10,407 --> 00:58:10,977

The Yappy Hour With Nathan Dunleavy:

Love that.

00:58:11,008 --> 00:58:15,417

Thank you so much, Hannah Capon,

thank you so much for joining me on

00:58:15,417 --> 00:58:17,357

The Yappy Hour, powered by Yappily.

00:58:17,907 --> 00:58:20,127

I've absolutely loved

chatting with you today.

00:58:20,817 --> 00:58:21,778

Hannah Capon: Thank you for having me.

00:58:22,122 --> 00:58:22,982

The Yappy Hour With Nathan Dunleavy:

You are most welcome.

00:58:28,332 --> 00:58:31,812

Before we finish, here are a

few key takeaways from today's

00:58:31,812 --> 00:58:33,372

conversation with Hannah.

00:58:34,122 --> 00:58:39,072

Number one, arthritis is extremely

common in dogs and can begin