Sotheby's Geneva jewelry specialist and director Marie-Cécile Cisamolo shares her passion for Retro jewelry, putting the style in its political and economical context, as well as explaining why it's a good time to buy the era's iconic pieces at auction.

Jewelry Connoisseur Podcast – Episode 2 – Season 2

Welcome to the Jewelry Connoisseur podcast. And now your host, Sonia Esther Soltani.

Welcome to the Jewelry Connoisseur podcast. It’s the podcast for people in the jewelry industry that want to learn more and it's also for jewelry lovers, who just want to expand their knowledge. Here we talk about everything that has to do with vintage and antique jewelry. I am your host, Sonia Esther Soltani, I am the editor of Rapaport. I edit a monthly magazine for the trade that covers everything from mining to retail. I'm also editing an online publication called Jewelry Connoisseur, like this podcast, where you can learn about estate jewelry, contemporary design and gemstones, and I'm curating an Instagram account, Rapaport Jewelry Pro, in which we try to educate as much as possible our listeners who are all enthusiastic about jewelry.

I love to learn about jewelry. I love to have exciting guests who tell me more. And I hope that by the end of this episode, you’ll also feel you've discovered something new about the fascinating world of jewelry.

Today my guest is Marie-Cécile Cisamolo, who is a specialist and director of jewelry at Sotheby's Geneva. Marie-Cécile started her career at Christie's in London, working at Christie's Geneva until last year November, and today Marie-Cécile is going to share her passion for Retro jewelry. The most iconic pieces, what is so interesting in terms of political and economical contexts and also what you should have in your collection and will tell us why it's a good time to buy at auction.

________________________________________

Sonia: Good morning Marie-Cécile, who is joining us from Geneva. How are you today?

Marie-Cécile: Good morning. I'm great. Thank you. Thank you so much for having me.

Sonia: So I know you are a specialist in Retro jewelry and you love Retro jewelry. Since you've been like exposed to so many beautiful jewels of all periods. What's so special about Retro for you?

Sonia: Will invite you for another podcast on the 70s jewels, if you want. But back to the Retro. So how did it start and when did it start, the whole period, like you said, especially with this political context?

Sonia: And what were the main influences? Why did the jewelers wanted to move from the Art Deco that was dominating the scene until then?.

Sonia: I think what you like in the period is, that founding really interesting, is the inventiveness and the innovations, that is really the shortage of goods and materials has actually helped people flourish in different styles.

Marie-Cécile: Exactly. That's what's so exciting about it. That's what I love, is that it's so simple to go to a shop in the 30s or the 20s and get a long nice bracelet full of diamonds because they had the stock, and people have the money to pay for it as well. But when creators of jewelry in the forties during the war wanted to do something extraordinary where it just didn't say it was a 15 carat diamond. They had to go and play with the gold. And we see so many inventions at that time as it's often then the case when people struggle, they get inventive, that's survival, you know, in a way. So tubogas starts, which comes from tube au gas, which mean gas tube, which was the way the gas was transported at the time. So you see tubogas, and it gives this all flexibility and awesomeness to the jewels. And you see also the gold becomes flattered, you know, it becomes reeded, it's used as pompoms. It's all about the material. What do they have in their hand? A little bit of pink gold, basically yellow gold mixed with copper. And they created, you know, magic with it. And then for fun, they added some stones where they could put their hands on. And there again, is a big change because, where do we get off stones? You know, we get the stones from Colombia, from Sri Lanka, from all those far away countries. Well, during the war, the boats are not really used for that. So what do we do? We use synthetic stone because that's what we have. And again, you see here the madness that big, important brand that would have never be seen, probably using synthetic stones 10 years earlier, use big, you know, synthetic stones in their high jewelry, which was what was called high jewelry at the time, which is not high jewelry of the 30s, but in high jewelry, you know pieces. And so that's the first thing you're taught as a cataloguer or specialist is that when you have a jewel from the 40s, just double check because there's a high chance all the stones are going to be synthetic. So that's the way I learned about that, and I thought. Well, that's outrageous of first. You know, why would you put synthetic sapphire on a nice Cartier bracelet? Well, then you look into it and you actually make sense.

Sonia: That gemologist in you could calm down if once you know, combined with the historian.

Marie-Cécile: Yeah, exactly. I'm not. OK, that's fine. I'll take that. But this little pieces of, you know, we talked about the pink gold, how pink gold now is so sexy or was at least until a couple of years ago, and pink gold cost more money when you want a Cartier Love bangle in yellow gold, it's more expensive in pink gold and you think about it. Actually, it's less valuable intrinsically because it's yellow gold mixed with something else. But then you go back to the 40s and you understand and you see synthetic stone and you think about the context. And again, you understand. And it's just that historian in me loves it so much.

Sonia: What were the stones there were the most replicated as synthetics during that time?

Marie-Cécile: For sure the four big ones. Diamonds were still used, but in very small, you know, very little small diamonds. Usually they're real. And then sapphire emeralds and rubies. If you see any cocktail watch or cocktail ring from the 40s, 80 percent chance is they're synthetic. Doesn't make them less appealing.

Sonia: No, of course, because the design, it is still there. But were all the other stones that may are considered semi-precious that were also used during that time when they were moving from the big three.

Marie-Cécile: So we see appearing . And if I'm completely honest, semi-precious stone also appeared preponderant or very intensely in another period that I'm in love with, which is Art Nouveau. That's again, another conversation. But you would have very rarely seen big art deco jewels set with a lot of diamond and a topaz in the middle or an amethyst on an aquamarine. We all think about that one example, which is the famous Cartier aquamarine tiara that was wearing at the end of the 30s and suddenly they were everywhere brooches with nice topaz, nice aquamarines, nice tourmalines, pop up everywhere. And another reason that appeals to me is that not only again the resourcefulness of the jewels is to want to create something but don't have the big three or don’t want to use synthetic and go to semi-precious. But also, what were they trying to represent by using so many colors? Well, happiness. A little bit of a light spirit in the middle of all this darkness in society and you see spray of flowers coming up and you see little round shapes instead of the straight geometrical lines of the Art Deco period. Suddenly, everything is more soft. You're looking for lightness, a soft touch in the middle of the madness, and that's what appeals to me as well.

Sonia: And a little bit of softness in this horrible time. And how about the big houses you mentioned Cartier, but were they really big during the Retro period?

Marie-Cécile: Well, surprisingly no. And there's a few houses that come to my mind when I think about the Retro period, and one of the first is Boucheron, as we know, is a long established house of Place Vendome in Paris, the first one to get there. But when you think about Art Deco, you don't see many Boucheron pieces, but suddenly in the Retro period they explode. They create designs that are just to die for, especially as I was talking earlier about pompoms. So they have the whole long bracelet with a belt kind of designed as well. They pop up was this and there's, I think I send you the example there's a Boucheron bangles set with sapphire with curved line that just made me want to die when I saw it. And there's a great story about that because I saw it that I was wow, I love it, it's in the auction and I called one of my clients who still has it in her collection and I said: "Look, you need to get this. This is one of the most important pieces of Retro jewelry that I've ever seen. And it's up for grabs at auction". And she wasn't that into Retro at the time, but luckily we managed to get it for the low estimate, which is amazing. And it's still in her collection and I think I hope she values it. So that's nice. So Boucheron is a big house, Van Cleef & Arpels, you can't get around Van Cleef & Arpels. The Ludo bracelet is literally an example of what Retro is. It is yellow gold, most of the time. It is serti étoilé, so star setting I suppose, which is a way of making diamonds look bigger. So you empty the gold star shape and then you put the weenie diamond in the middle. But it looks bigger and it's also created as a belt. You wear it as a belt of your arm, so it's literally a Retro one-one and people go crazy for them because they are so easy to wear. So Van Cleef & Arpels is big. Another house that disappears later, just after the Retro in the 50s is Mauboussin, Trabert & Hoeffer and Mauboussin. It created the most amazing Retro jewels. And of course, I said Cartier was not too big on it. But there's one creation that it kind of rocked and defined the Retro period that I suppose we have to talk about is the bird. ________________________________________

The Jewelry Connoisseur Podcast will be back after this break.

The Jewelry Connoisseur podcast is brought to you by Rapaport Jewelry Auctions. Rapaport Jewelry Auctions offers centralized monthly auction markets that provide sellers with liquidity for their jewelry at fair market value prices and give buyers an opportunity to purchase estate jewelry at competitive market prices. Rapoport's auctions consist of unique estate, vintage and design jewelry, expertly curated and incredibly priced. With auctions held each month they're always excellent buying and selling opportunities. Visit us at jewelryauctions.rapaport.com and register to participate in our upcoming auctions.

________________________________________

Sonia: So tell us about this bird because we go back to retro and politics.

Sonia: But what a symbol.

Marie-Cécile: Yeah.

Sonia: Absolutely. And I was wondering because you mentioned this client of yours and these Boucheron bracelet earlier and prices at auction. How does Retro jewelry do at auction?

Marie Cecile: ]So that's one of the saddest thing is, this fact about this period is that no one loves it, just as I do, you know, and lots of people are fan of Retro jewels. But a few years ago, I created a section of Retro jewels in the Magnificent Jewels auction in Geneva, and the top lot of that section was a Boucheron bangle that I spoke about and the rest was smaller pieces. Mix of pink and yellow gold, not signed by the big houses because there's not many and it just crashed. No one wants it. I just I don't get it. I'm the only one buying Retro jewelry, so I just love it. I have a few pieces myself that I buy in local auction house. Luckily, I suppose it allows me to buy them. Otherwise I couldn't.

Sonia: So actually, that's a good investment. If you're a dealer, today is the right time to buy Retro jewelry and then, you know, it will become more popular after this podcast, I'm sure already.

Marie Cecile: Why don't people see it? I don't get it, it's amazing, but it's funny because you have literally two. You have the High Retro Jewelry, and then you have the normal Retro jewelry, that people used to wear every day at the time. That no one cares about, apart from me and a few other geeks I suppose.

Sonia: I am a bit sad because I love mid-century and Retro jewelry as well. So that would be my go-to period, the big, bold volume, the nice, you know, like he makes a statement, but you can actually wear it every day as well.

Marie-Cécile: Exactly. Because there's not big stones on it, like big cocktail ring. The nice cocktail wristwatch, it’s just for me, is just amazing. I think nothing dresses more your black dress than a bold yellow gold necklace with no stones on it. So I have a competition in you now. Luckily, we don't live in the same country as we won't fight for the same lot.

Sonia: But tell me about actually what's coming up for auction. Do you have any pieces that you spotted in the next Sotheby's sales, wherever in the world are there in Geneva or in the other places?

Sonia: What was the estimate for this piece, so just I know, but you know, in this parallel life.

Marie-Cécile: I think it's about 30 to 50. I have to double check. The auction is coming up, but we're closing the catalog now, so I have my head full of other jewels.

Sonia: And tell me what would be in your ideal jewelry box, your ideal box. Mine has a Belperron, for sure. A few. But what's in yours?

Marie-Cécile: Well in mine is that Hawaii bracelet I told you about, for many reasons, and I have to say that Boucheron bangle is there as well. But if it was my dream jewelry box, I'd have to because I wear one on each wrist and it's such a statement. But you know what's amazing about my job? Is that I see and I fall in love with jewels every six months, and so those two stuck in my mind. Have a few others even, you know, just stones because they're just old and chipped and have a little black inclusion under the table. But I just love those because they're, you know, they can't replicate that. You can have a 3 carat D flawless and you have an old G slightly brownish with a black inclusion. There's only one if you like it, it's yours. And that's the uniqueness of it. So this season, those two, after speaking with you and that diamond that we'll talk about when you come to Geneva, hopefully to see it and what what's going to be in my jewelry box next season, I don't know. I'm looking forward to finding out what we gather for the sales and have there. Also, I have to put it, there is my wedding bands and my engagement ring because otherwise my husband would kill me.

Sonia: Beautiful. What is, do you think the Retro jewel that is so timeless that people would really, really need to know about?

Marie-Cécile: Another one that speaks to me, is the Passe-partout set by Van Cleef & Arpels, again. represents all of Retro, it's a typical chain. It can be worn as a belt, as a brooch, as a necklace, as a bracelet. And then you have, on top of it, a watch, cocktail watch: made with yellow sapphire and Blue Sapphire again yellow sapphires before the Retro period, not too sexy. The blue sapphires are usually very light, so again, not too sexy before the retro period. And it's just it's just everything.

Sonia: Is so nice. You really made us dream with all these beautiful pieces you described. I don't know if you listen to this podcast and haven't fallen in love with Retro I don't know what we need to do.

Marie-Cécile: And if you want to join the Retro geek clubs, just contact me. I talk about it all day. [5.3s]

Sonia: Fantastic, I want to be in. Thank you so much Marie-Cécile are really it was so enjoyable, and I hope our listeners have learned more about this period, which I personally find fascinating and that you have highlighted in such an eloquent way for us. Thank you so much. [14.3s]

Marie-Cécile: Oh, thank you. It was lovely and it just drew me back to a really nice pieces, and I'm looking forward to speaking about the 70s with you soon.

Sonia: Great. You're on.

________________________________________

Thanks for having joined on this latest episode of the Rapaport Jewelry Connoisseur podcast, you can find us on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, Google and YouTube, and if you like this podcast, leave us some little stars, subscribe to make sure that you don't miss any episode and you have more information as well on jewelryconnoisseur.net about this episode and many, many other subjects on estate and vintage jewelry.