Why do people LOVE or HATE Chardonnay? It's the polarizing grape that tends to split the room...

I'm leading 3 generations from ages 21-80 through a blind tasting featuring six different Chardonnays, ranging from $15 to $70 a bottle.

You'll hear why Chardonnay can range from “yuck” to “yum” so easily, and explore the factors that contribute to its diverse flavor profiles. Whether you’re a die-hard fan or a graduate of the school of ABC (Anything But Chardonnay), this episode promises some eye-opening insights and a lot of laughs with my family, as we navigate through the often misunderstood nuances of this often debated wine.

Chardonnays Mentioned in the Episode:

1. Joel Gott 2023 Unoaked
2. Dreaming Tree 2022 California
3. Macon-Village by Louis Jadot 2023
4. Rombauer 2022 Carneros
5. Pride Mountain Vineyards- 2024 Napa
6. Three Sticks 2024 Durell Vineyard

Other Links and Resources:

Purchase our small-lot, sustainably grown, super delicious Sollevato 2023 Grenache and 2022 Sangiovese! Super-versatile wines for your table all year round! (Use the code PODLISTENER for 10% off Nikki and Michael's Sollevato Wines!)

Follow me on Instagram to get the scoop on upcoming episodes and behind the scenes looks!

Enjoy some of MY FAVORITE THINGS from our Sponsors:

Use my VIP Friends and Family Link to sign up for Wine Spies! And use the coupon code NIKKI for $50 off your order of $200 or more!

You NEED some delicious California Olive Oil from our awesome sponsor American Olive Farmer. Use code SipWithNikki for $10 off your order!

Check out Sena Sea's website to get your hands on some beautiful wild-caught Alaskan fish shipped right to your door! Use code sipandsea for 10% off your order and sign up for their email list (great recipes!) and be entered to win a monthly $50 gift card drawing.

Questions, suggestions and guest requests? [email protected]

Okay. Yuck to yum. One to ten.

Rate it.

Six, seven, even.

God, stop talking.

Oh, my God, stop. Gen X, stop.

Because it's not over yet.

No.

Ooh, says the boomer.

I wish.

Hello.

Hello.

It's Nikki Lamberti, winemaker and wine educator here in Sonoma County, California. And if you are a new listener, welcome.

We're so excited to kick off the.

New year with you joining the party. And if you are a regular listener, thank you. I see you.

And as always, I appreciate you, especially as we near our 100th episode coming in just about a month's time. You know, I'd love to hear what you would like for that 100th episode. What are your ideas? What are your burning wine questions?

Are there any guests that you can't believe I haven't had yet? So feel free to send me a quick [email protected] or you can message me at Instagram ickylamberti or on Facebook. Also, Nikki Lamberti.

I was recently back home in New Jersey for the holidays, which I do every year. And you may have heard previous episodes that I've recorded with friends and family when I go back there.

And I have a special wine suitcase that I check on the plane when we travel. So I was packing it up a few days before flying out there. And of course, I've got Solevato, my own wine in there.

But I was asking my mom, Susan, hey, what else do you want to taste? What else do you want me to bring? And she said, can you bring some Chardonnay? She said, I think I like Chardonnay now. And I was like, oh, really?

Well, let's unpack this, Susan. And speaking of unpacking, when I'm traveling back to California and that wine suitcase is empty because we drank it all.

Guess what?

What fits beautifully in that suitcase? Three dozen everything, Jersey bagels that we bring back, vacuum seal and freeze to get us through till the next visit.

They just don't make them like that here in California. You know, Chardonnay is always such a hot topic. People love to hate it.

And I have found that, being in this industry for almost 15 years, that wine drinkers tend to have a very strong opinion one way or the other when it comes to Chardonnay. And they either tend to love it or hate it. There's not a lot of middle ground. There's people that are like, yep, that's all I order.

But more commonly, I have people literally use the word hate and say, I hate Chardonnay. I've even had people say, oh, abc, anything but Chardonnay. Which I think is a little ridiculous.

But it's always interesting to me when I share a Chardonnay with someone and they say, oh, this is actually really good. And I'm like, why? The word actually.

Right?

Which tells me that people's expectations are that it's not gonna be good. And then they tend to be surprised when it is.

So the bottom line is people's perceptions and preferences are all over the board when it comes to this white grape.

So today we're gonna talk about why.

But rather than me get on my Chardonnay soapbox, I thought it would be really fun to gather five of my family members ranging from ages 21 to to 80, and blind paste them on six different bottles of Chardonnay that I've provided. And they're ranging in prices from $15 a bottle to 70. So that's what you're about to hear.

It's myself, my mom Susan, my sister Dana, my nephew Dana's son Aiden, who is a cadet at West Point in New York. And then joining us for the first time on the podcast is Aiden's longtime girlfriend, Lauren, who just completed her master's degree in education.

Congrats to you, Lauren. So you'll hear me guiding this tasting.

We move pretty quickly through six really different wines, but then we talk about why they are so different and answer some of the mystery of why Chardonnay can be so polarizing. So if you have a strong opinion on it one way or the other, this episode is for you.

If you're not sure if you have an opinion one way or the other, listen in. Because I think it's very eye opening to have these five very different types of wine drinkers, right?

You have my mom, who's been drinking wine for 60 years and definitely has had time to form some opinions and biases. And then you have someone like Lauren, who literally, this was her first time ever tasting Chardonnay, and then everything in between.

So it's a lot of fun. We laugh, we learn. And I can't wait for you to listen to our fun 3 generation blind tasting of the winemaker's grape.

Happy New Year, everybody. Happy New Year. Thank you. Happy New Year. Are you ready to taste some Chardonnay?

Hey.

So, mom, you are the inspiration for this episode, because I think a few weeks ago, before I came here to New Jersey, we were on the phone and we were talking about wine or what wine I should bring or something, and you said something about Chardonnay.

I said, I think I like it now.

Yeah.

Because I've had pride. Chardonnay.

You've been saying pride.

Okay, that's pride Chardonnay. And now I'm like, oh, I think I like Chardonnay. That doesn't mean I'll like all of those.

It doesn't. And we're going to taste six different Chardonnays today. Before we go too far, this will help our listeners.

If we can just go around the room and just say your name and your generation, because I think that's what's interesting is we have three Gen categories here. So I'm your host, Nikki, and I am Jen. I am the sister of the host.

Dana, also Gen X. I am the.

Nephew of the host, and I am.

Gen Z. I am the nephew's girlfriend of the host, and I am also Gen Z.

Whoop, whoop.

And I am the mother of the host.

And I am a baby boomer. Yeah, you are.

So we've got three generations here, and we've got people who drink wine very often, people who drink wine less often, people who drink other things besides wine more often. I'm looking at you, Aiden, who drinks more wine than most his age. Oh, definitely around us, you kind of force that.

Yeah, around us, but not out on your own.

No, I'm not going to the bar and getting a glass of Chardonnay, that's for sure.

And a lot of people aren't including. It was a great segue. A lot of people that love wine are like, I hate Chardonnay. I hear it all the time at the winery. I've heard it for 13 years.

Every time I try to pour someone Chardonnay. At Pride, people feel really strongly about it, and they tend to love it or hate it, and there's not a.

Lot of middle ground.

And so I'm going to give you a little bit of the why before we taste, and then we'll taste and then we'll debrief. But the nickname for the Chardonnay grape. So Chardonnay is the name of a grape.

It's a white grape that we make a white wine from, but the nickname for that grape is the winemaker's grape. And we call it that because it's like a blank canvas to start with, but you can really change it. You can really affect it. You can really style it.

It's malleable to the things that you do to it. Therefore, I think more than any other grape that we make wine from, there's the biggest spectrum of the style of what Chardonnay can be.

Even if we just said only high quality Chardonnay. Right. Even within that, they're really, really different, depending on where they grew. When did you pick it? What did you ferment it in?

Did you do a second fermentation? Did you age it in stainless steel or concrete or barrels? Were the barrels from France or the us? Were the barrels new or old?

All of these things that affect wine anyway really affect Chardonnay because the natural characteristics of this grape are just pretty neutral, nice and fresh and some fruity notes, but they're neutral. And then all of those things that I just mentioned really change it.

So that's why there's such a big spectrum and there's a style of Chardonnay out there that's on one end of the spectrum. And there's at least one of those in this lineup today, maybe more. That is the words that we hear, like buttery.

Yeah.

Or we'll call them a butter bomb. Right. And with that style, which there's a lot of, especially in the lower end of the price market.

So if you go in and buy a 10 or $15 Chardonnay, a lot of times it's going to be that.

Because the buttery and the oaky things about them can cover up the shitty grapes and the shitty farming and the low quality, mass produced, whatever. So then you're tasting processes that winemakers have done. You're not even tasting a grape or a place or any of that stuff. Okay.

So I think when a lot of people taste Chardonnay like that, they're like, well, I don't like that, so I must not like Chardonnay. And then we move on and we find Sauvignon Blanc or Pinot Grigio or we move into the reds.

And then we've always said, like, I'm not a Chardonnay person. Not realizing that there's a whole other end of the spectrum of what Chardonnay can be.

So with the six Chardonnays that I pulled today, they are all over this spectrum. And we're going to talk about what the differences are.

Okay, before we do that, does anybody have just a general thought on your perception of Chardonnay? Are you a Chardonnay drinker? Yes or no? Typically, no.

But like, mom, love the Chardonnay from Pride, which is not buttery and oaky and all of those things.

Okay.

That's why.

Yeah.

That.

I feel like that was an eye opener Chardonnay for a lot of you guys. When I started working there and we Started pouring that. Now, when I started working there, you, Aiden and Lauren were not old enough to drink yet.

So you have not been drinking chardonnay as long as we have. But now that you are legally able to do it, what is your impression of Chardonnay?

I don't think I've drink enough to, like, formulate like, a strong opinion about it outside of, like, you know, just at dinner and you're pouring something out, it's like, here, this Chardonnay, and you just pour them out. Okay.

Because now it's kind of at that point, like young drinking career, just trying anything and everything to start developing which ones I like, which ones I don't. So I don't think I have a strong enough opinion about it yet, which.

I actually love, because you're like a sponge and I can sort of mold you. You haven't been jaded by the shitty shards that are out there. Hashtag, shitty shard.

And there's a lot of it where people are just like, oh, abc, anything but Chardonnay. People say that it's so ridiculous. So I like that you're more of a blank canvas, Lauren. Similar or different?

I don't think I've ever had chardonnay before.

Stupid. Oh, my God, I love this so much. Even more exciting. Okay, and Susan, I've had it.

I don't think I've ever ordered it anywhere.

You never drank it?

Years ago. I feel like that was almost the white normal drink.

I don't drink a lot of white wine, so started drinking Pride Chardonnay.

So last tip and then I promise we'll taste. I had you number your page one through six so you can just capture some quick notes.

There's no right or wrong, but one of the things that's helpful is to use the acronym feu F E W. F Is fruit. Is the wine fruity? Yes or no? And if it is, what kind of fruity are you perceiving?

Are you perceiving berries like cherries and strawberries in your glass? Or is it more like citrusy or apples and pears? Right, so just think about fruitiness. E is earth. Are you smelling things that are not fruit?

So spices, leaves, minerality, the ocean, you know, all of those things. Grass, dirt. That's all in the E. Sticks.

Woodiness.

Well, but then wood.

And especially, especially for this situation, tracing Chardonnay, the woodiness or the oakiness of wine is its own category, and that's the W. So W is wood. And that refers to. Does this wine smell like it aged in the Oak barrel. Can you smell oakiness about this wine? So fruit, earth, and wood.

And one of the things that's always helped me with this acronym is in my brain. I think of it like uppercase, lowercase, or like different fonts.

Like, some wines, like that first Pinot Noir that we poured last night was a huge capital, large font, bold face, F. It was like pruny, overripe fruit. And then the E and the W were very small. Right. So you can also think of it like some of the letters are bigger than that. The other.

Okay, so do you have all three in one?

Generally, every wine is going to have some of that, although it might not have any woodiness or oakiness if it didn't age in oak. And I will tell you, some of the wines I'm about to pour for you did age in oak, and some did not.

And there may or may not be a pride in there, so don't look for it. But I guarantee there are wines in here that you don't know.

They are all from California except for one, which is from France, because I just threw that in there because there was something about it that I wanted to highlight. Trick us. Okay, so let's pick up the first wine. Give it a good swirl, give it a good smell.

Say any words that come to mind, and you can jot them down, too. Anything that jumps into mind right now.

Fruit. Yes.

Yeah. What kind of fruit is it? Berries.

Grapefruit.

Grapefruit, Very citrusy.

Fasting citrus.

Lemon. Like lemon zest.

Yeah, a little grass.

Grass. So there's some earthiness. Yeah. But fruit, definitely fruity. Right? We get really.

Any woody?

Yeah. Not getting a lot of oak.

And what oak sometimes smells like in wine is like, either literal, like you're smelling a tree, or it can smell like, baking spices, like clove, vanilla, cinnamon, nutmeg.

Right.

Like the inside of the barrel. This is just smells very light to me. Very light, fruity, citrusy. Maybe some white pepper.

Now, as you taste it, I want you to also think about, does it taste like it smelled? Oh.

Ooh.

Dana's pointing to her cheeks. What is that?

Like, back in the tongue?

Yeah. What is that? What causes that noise that we make? Yes, sister. This wine is definitely a higher acidity that makes us make.

Tastes like a little sweeter, too.

Yeah, A little bit of sweetness on it, I would say. It's not totally dry. Some of the sugar that was in the grape juice was left behind after fermentation stopped. Do we like this wine?

I don't mind it.

I Almost taste a little stronger. Like back of your throat a little bit.

Yeah, it's got a long finish for me. Like, that last sip was probably 20, 30 seconds ago, and it's still hanging out, percolating in my mouth, which I like. Yeah, I like it.

It looks a little lighter in your mouth feel than a typical.

On a scale of yum to yuck, Yum being like 10 out of 10, I like it. I would order a glass of this. I would pay for a bottle of it. One being get the shit out of my glass. Just write it down, rate it for yourself.

One to ten. Ten is high. And then just do your own F, E, W. Simply look. Is it. Is the F uppercase or lowercase? Is the E uppercase or lowercase?

And is the woodiness uppercase or lowercase? That's all cool. You can leave that in your glass as a comparison.

As I pour the second one, I want you to close your eyes as I pour the next one, because I didn't cover them up. See, it's much easier when I do it with Hobie. Love you, Hobes. Love you, Hobs.

He's been on my Instagram, Todd.

He's amazing. For our regular listeners, you all know I'm talking about Dr. Hobie Wedler, our resident sensory expert.

Expert and good friend of the family who was born without sight and is amazing smeller and taster. Okay, wine number two is in your glass. Now, the next thing, just notice the color of the two. Yeah.

What do you notice about wine number two in the glass?

Very yellow.

Yeah.

Now, generally, what darker is going to mean, and this is leading the witness, but a lot of times, Chardonnay or white wine that aged in a barrel gets a little more color from the barrel.

Hint, hint, wink, wink.

But we'll see if that's true. All right, let's give it a smell. Oh. Totally different, right? Go back to your last one and go back to this one. Just smell. Totally different.

Flowers.

Flowers.

Molasses.

Butterscotch.

Butter.

Smoky. Toasted.

Yeah.

What just got bigger on this wine?

Wood.

I also didn't tell you before we started, but these wines range from $15 a bottle on the low end to 70 on the high and everything in between. Talk to me more about wine number two.

I give mostly wood. Like what we're saying spicy.

Oh, it's crazy, cuz when I was saying, oh, Write down fe W. And we're like wood. And you're like, what is this? And then the minute you smell this, you're like, oh, yeah, that totally makes sense. Right? Okay.

Did you guys taste it yet?

Definitely.

Woody, right?

Definitely. Yeah. Like, I get the butteriness, too, that mom was talking.

Mom's favorite movie. Popcorn butter. Yeah.

Yeah, look that after.

Almost like the fake butter stuff, like.

The thing that we put in the house.

Yeah, that's exactly what it tastes like.

Not get that acidity.

No, the acidity, it's softer. We call it baby fat. It's got more baby fat in the mouth and less sharpness and angularity.

This is more towards, like, a Sauvignon Blanc.

The first one. The first one, when you go back to it, totally different the way it tastes.

The first one is, like, harsh on the side of your tongue and near the back of your throat. This is kind of like coats a little bit. Yeah.

Ooh, Good word, Dana. Yeah, I would say wine number two is more round, and wine number one is more linear.

And this is because I'm not gonna tell you the wines yet, but I'm gonna tell you a little bit as we go. The process, which you guys have probably heard me talk about, the secondary fermentation, malolactic fermentation.

That is the difference between these two wines. All wine goes through fermentation. That's how you create alcohol. Right? So the primary fermentation is yeast eating sugar, turning it into alcohol.

That's all wine. But then there's a second fermentation called malolactic that's optional. You can choose if you want to put your wine through it or not.

And a lot of Chardonnays, especially historically, the winemakers have put it through that because it makes it two things. It changes this texture that you guys noticed in the mouth.

It makes it rounder and softer because it's converting the malic acid to lactic acid in the wine. And malic feels sharp. An underripe apple on a tree that's sour is high in malic acid, lactic acid, we think lactose. Right. Rich, creamy.

So you choose to do it to get the softer texture that you're noticing wine to. And when that malolactic fermentation happens, there's a new compound that's created a natural compound called diacetyl.

And diacetyl is what they use to make butter flavoring. Movie popcorn butter. I told you this when we were at the movies last week at the Pump.

Said movie popcorn butter is made from diacetyl so in your second glass, there is diacetyl present.

Because this wine has gone through malolactic fermentation, which is why you notice the softer, rounder texture and the butteriness that wine number one did not have. That's part of the difference between these two wines. Does that make sense?

Yeah.

Cool. Other thoughts on wine number two. And then rate it.

I don't taste much of the wood with this one.

Just personally smell it more than you taste it.

Smell it more than I taste it, but I don't know, like it. It literally tastes like how you have that coating from eating popcorn. Like that butter coating it. I can't tell if I like it or it's like a dessert.

It's like what you would say. Chardonnay.

Yeah.

In your head. This is exactly what comes if someone says, I like or don't. That's why.

Yeah, yeah. It's richer. It's a little butterier. It's a little oakier. Yeah. Susan. Yeah.

I don't know where to put it on the few scales.

For me, the F is there, but very small lowercase, small font. For me, the E is a capital and the W is a capital in a big font. So it's like a Christian fold, like F eat. So what E or T?

Like I got florally when I first smelled it.

I don't taste it, and you might not get any E. It might be.

Might be.

No E in this wine for you. Okay, rate this wine for you. Yum to yuck. One to ten. I should say yuck to yum to be proper, because yuck is the low end and yum is a high one to ten.

Just rate it. Okay. All right, we're moving on. Line them in, in, in, in. Close your eyes. Wine number three is in your new glass. Go ahead, give it a smell.

Give it a taste. Yummy.

Is that what you hate when people.

Say that yummy's fine, yummy's fine. Not bad. Not bad.

Smells more similar to the first one.

Yeah, agree.

Much more fruit.

Good job we don't get as much citrus grass. Yeah, Definitely lighter everything for me. But even the fruitiness is quieter. The earth. It's just a quieter overall smell for me in the glass.

Color's pretty pale, right? Yeah, pretty pale. Yeah. Always helpful, too, if you hold it against your white paper background.

So, yeah, I would say definitely one is more similar to three than two is to three. All right. Give it a taste. Don't forget to make out with it a little bit in your mouth. Move it around, Give it a swish.

Aiden, you're shaking your head.

Personally, I just don't really get much of anything.

Anything? Yeah, it's really neutral, if you ask me.

Fruit, Earth.

What?

I couldn't tell you anything. Yeah, I got like, the alcohol taste, which is like. It's not too subtle. It's not too much, it's not too little. Just tastes like white wine to me.

I agree. It's really subtle. Alcoholic. Yeah, alcoholic. That's the only taste of it.

Well, I don't get any of that.

Interesting, because I will tell you this. Of the three wines we've had today so far, this is the lowest alcohol at 13%. The last one was 14 and the first one was 13. 8.

But not necessarily by percent. It's just.

That's all I get.

There is nothing else that's prominent in there.

Beautifully said.

So the chemistry may tell us it's the lowest alcohol, but because the other things are quieter, you perceive the alcohol because there's less fruitiness, there's less oakiness, there's less earthiness in my mouth.

The acidity, I guess.

Yeah.

It's like, still there.

Alcohol or acidity? Tartness. Salivary glands. Like, more like in the front.

Yeah.

Nothing in the back.

I hardly ever wrote anything.

It's very subtle. It's like, refreshing. I don't hate it, but it's not changing my life. Maybe with some fish or some food, it might be nice.

It's fine when the choices are limited.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Is anyone offended by this one?

Offended?

No.

Is it anybody's favorite so far? No. Okay, give it your rating, 1 to 10. Yuktoyam. And just any couple words just as. Cause when we're going to go back to these in a few minutes.

Just any words about this wine that will just trigger your memory of what it is. She was definitely subtle, right? Like, harder to notice anything about. Yeah.

Yeah.

Isn't this crazy? We've only had three wines. They're all Chardonnay. How different they are already crazy. And I think all the letters are lowercase in this line.

Yeah, all lowercase.

Oh, I love it. I love it.

Okay.

I can't wait to do the unveiling.

The second one smells like a toasted marshmallow.

Yes. Great observation. Do you know where that note comes from? The barrel. You got it, girl.

The marshmallows that you squish in.

Yeah, right.

All right.

Okay.

Eyes closed. Wine number four. Going on the right. It's great sound effects. Yes.

I think Aiden got more than me.

By the Sound by the sound. Yeah. All right. Open and evaluate. Look at the color.

What'd you say, Dan?

Yellow.

Much more yellow.

What does that lead you to? Maybe more Woody Woo.

Oh, that is very different.

Oh, wow.

Smells like more fiery. It's a nail on it. I don't know if that's smoky or wood or what.

But aged barrels, new barrels.

New.

When they.

When.

When you get your wine barrels, especially from France, but American too, when they arrive from the Coopers or the barrel makers, they have toasted or charred the inside over a flame. And I think that is very. This is not from fires. This is not a fire year in California.

That smokiness, which is a great observation, is totally from the barrel. This wine, we can probably guess what's one of the ones aged in oak, not stainless steel or concrete. Okay, did anyone taste it yet?

No.

Let me ask you this. When you smell this, are you excited to taste it? I am not sure because it's a very distinct smell.

It's a lot. Feels like a lot of stuff happening in the glass.

I don't gotta try it, but a.

Little bit of your marshmallow might get in there too.

No, I don't think I like this one.

Why not?

I'm the opposite. I like it.

And this.

This is wine, people. This is chardonnay. I love it. What don't you like, Lauren?

It tastes like lighter fluid.

Te. Oh. Meaning you feel like octane, like heat in your esophagus or just the.

No, it just tastes. It smells like a fire and it tastes like liquid fire.

Okay. No fruitiness, no flowers.

It's like. Tastes like I'm drinking like a stick.

Yeah, it is. It's like it tastes like some kind of candy.

But I don't know, is it a.

Werther's or a butterscotch in the yellow.

Cellophane sweetness in there?

Yeah.

I initially like the taste because it's like that woody burn. Like, I like to drink bourbon, so it kind of reminds me of that. Yeah, I don't love.

Again, like we had it before, the butteriness, like that butter aftertaste that, like, kind of coats your tongue.

It's still there.

It's still there for me.

I don't.

I like the mouth feel of it, but I don't like the taste.

What do you like about the mouthfeel?

It's softer. There's no, like, sharp edges at all.

Girl, you are hired. Yes. And what process creates that softer, rounder, baby fat?

Malolactic?

Yes, the second fermentation.

So this is an example of a wine that has gone fully through that malolactic fermentation, which is why it's very round and rich and creamy in the mouth. And that butteriness. This is also an example of a wine that generally has a high butteriness to it. Mom, what's your face?

I'm with Lauren. I don't really like it.

Okay. And that's okay.

Yeah.

This isn't a taste that I would sit down and swish around in my mouth.

It's gotta be the $15.

It is not. It is the third most expensive one in the lineup. So that is not a product of price. Mom, are you getting movie popcorn butter in here?

No, I get like alcohol. And maybe that he likes it. Cause he likes the bourbon. To me, it's almost like some kind of liquor.

Yeah.

Like a sweet liqueur.

Yeah. It's interesting for me to smell like. I like smelling it. I think just from a wine nerd perspective.

Because especially when I was learning at the Culinary Institute, we did a day of Chardonnay where we had like 40 of these classes. And I will tell you, this particular wine was like the control in the experiment of one end of the spectrum. The buttery oaky.

This wine is known for that. And people that love this, love it. And people that don't. This is what tends to have people move on from Chardonnay.

This is a very textbook example of one end of the Chardonnay spectrum. Yup. To yum. One to ten. We're going to wine number five. Is this interesting?

It is. Yeah.

No wonder people are confused by wine. This is all the same damn grape crazy. Right.

We were talking about with my buddies. Because all of a sudden I'll get away from your trillies, your white claws, your Miller Lights, Bud Lights.

Because that was so like 20 and now you're 21 and 22.

I have never drank alcohol. Put that on the record. But I don't know. Like, we're trying more things and like a thing all my friends say.

Cuz I remember when we did a mock tasting with all my buddies from school.

Uhhuh.

Some of them will look at me. I'm like, I can't tell the difference between most of them. Like they're all just taste like wine. And it's not a bad thing.

They're like, I like the taste of wine, but it's hard to find those in things. So it's cool to see one grave have so many different sides of it.

They.

And it definitely makes it even more impressive when I See videos online of someone doing, like, a blind tasting and naming the grape, the taste, the country, the hillside.

But I specifically picked these wines because I knew they were very different. And I'm obviously. Again, spoiler alert. I'm trying to prove a point. Okay, eyes closed. Wine five go into your glass. You guys are so cute.

All covering your eyes. It's like you don't trust yourself to just close them. Like, you literally have to cover them.

You guys are covering.

So you all have wine number five on the right. Lighter wine, lighter color than wine number four. Okay. I say that every time.

You do. I love it.

She's so easy.

Well, there's so many smells in there. There are so many smells in there. We could do a whole podcast about.

Oh, I got almost, like, Aimenti eucalyptus.

We're gonna put that in which letter? Category? Totally. Fruitiness. Yes. No.

Earthiness.

Fresh herbal.

Yeah.

Green. Green. Green apple. Green apple skin, maybe like seasonings. Seasonings like thyme and rosemary.

Basil.

Do we get any butter? Movie popcorn butter in there?

Not the smell.

Do we get any barrels?

Like a tiny bit nothing.

A little bit tiny.

The last one. No, not at all.

Okay, give it a taste.

It's a lot less round, I guess.

Tart. Yeah. It's a little sour. Is acidity maybe grown somewhere that's a cooler climate.

I don't know if it's leftover from the last one, but a little bit of butteriness and it's a like, almost.

Where you're like, was that just leftover, or is that just subtle in the swine?

Exactly.

I would agree.

The richness, roundness, butteriness, the things that we know from the second fermentation are there, but they're really quiet for me. They're not absent, but they're not in my face. Like the last one. That's just me. But I also know what the wines are. Susan. I don't know.

This one really makes you think, right?

Everybody's, like, a little perplexed.

None of the things are screaming at it. Maybe because it was like, number five. Well, that happens, too, in a tasting. When we do these at Pride, we do, like, 20 at a time.

Now we're spitting, but by the end, the first, you're, like, writing a paragraph, and by the last one, you're like, yum. No, no. This one has a very long finish for me.

Yes.

Lauren, I have to try this.

It's very acidic. I'm not sure I like this one a lot.

Okay.

Little sweet, too.

Sweetness.

It's a little bit sweeter. Sweeter. It's like the side of my tongue more then.

And I know it's like the first one for me sits in the mouth very differently than this one's very similar.

To the first one for me personally, just in the. How it sits in the mouth.

Okay. A little more lean or linear now.

That I've let it sit for a bit. Not much butteriness.

Okay. So Aiden, you would say that this wine number five is most similar to wine number one for you in the flight.

Yeah.

Because I say two and four were very similar with like the woodiness four being a little bit more of that bourbon woodiness, also heavy on the butter. Two is like kind of like the softer version of that. Three, give it a cray.

I'm so proud.

Three.

We all, I think, agreed that there really wasn't much of anything on there. Say one not terrible. Similar to one not bad. I can't, I can't entirely remember though, if it's.

This is more citrusy than the first one because it's four wines ago, so.

Yeah, yeah.

But in terms of like the closest flavor, it's. I remember it's closest one.

Isn't it funny how your brain starts to put them like in that spectrum? Like one is here and two is here and three, I'm glad they're on.

Paper because I would completely forgot the.

Aftertaste of this one is a lot of, like grass for me. Very earthy.

Do you like the quote aftertaste? Is it a nice thing for you? It's okay.

It's like, it's pretty neutral.

Okay. So generally, if it's a pleasing thing, we're going to replace the word aftertaste with finish.

And we're going to say this wine is a very long finish. If it's gross and you're like, ugh, get it out of my mouth, then, yeah, it's an aftertaste.

But if it's just lingering and it's not offending or whatever, we'll be like, yeah, this wine has a pleasing long finish. And I would agree with that on this wine.

That's the first time we've said that.

Is this the first time you're feeling that?

That I feel like we all said, oh, this has a long finish.

And there's a few things that contribute to that.

That is generally a distinction between a really well made, smaller, lot higher quality, good farming, good winemaking, not mass produced is that lingering finish where the cheaper 10, $15 wines are usually like whatever they are. And then when you swallow, it's like, and scene. And there's just not a lot continuing. So in wine, we perceive that lung finish as a positive.

If the winemaker for this wine, who I may or may not know, was here and we said, yeah, everyone liked the lingering finish, that person would probably take that as a compliment.

And what makes that still in your mouth? What makes that long finish?

It's a lot of different things, but mostly it's just that winemaker paying attention to that and then adjusting the process, plus more layers of things going on.

Not rushing through to get it done.

Amen. You said it. All right. Yuck to yum. Scale. Rate it 1 to 10. And we're going to move to our final line. Isn't this fun, you guys? So fun.

Line number six coming to you now. Susan, you just. I didn't. I didn't see it. Well, if your eyes were open, that means you were peeking too much. I don't peep hers.

Stop looking, Lauren.

Y' all are peakers. Do you remember in school when we would play the 7up game when you put your heads down, thumbs up?

Yes.

I love that game.

Tell me. Keep not looking. Did you ever look at people's shoes beyond. Yes, yes, yes.

Our nickname.

Dana. Dana.

Are you trying to say you didn't?

I'm not answering.

I'm just saying if you said you.

Never looked for shoes, you were not using your resources. Is okay.

I wouldn't say cheating. I would just say strategic.

Yes.

Here we go. Color wine number six.

Very light.

Light.

Much lighter.

Very light.

I don't know if it's cuz.

Not smell like a sa.

Bl. What does it smell like?

Very sweet.

Sweet like sugar. Like simple syrup. Like a ripe fruit.

More sugar.

Yes.

Melon.

Look like a honeydew. Like, you can it look like a candle?

Well, I guess I said the wrong answer.

So we're gonna put the f. It's pretty big on this one. The fruitiness.

Watermelon for me.

Watermelon. Yeah. Orange. So this is a lot of Fs, meaning orange. Melon.

Yes.

Okay, what about E. Any of those spices that we've talked about or floral notes or woods? Earth, not wood. We're gonna get to that. But that pepper note. White pepper.

I don't even know what white pepper smells.

I know.

I know. Because.

Okay. Pretty fruity.

We're all pretty fruity. All right.

Yeah.

Maybe a little bit of earthiness.

Maybe might be spice, but I don't know what it is.

I get spicy. I get. I do get the pepper nest, like, all spice.

Well, that's what I'm saying. Not like a nutmeg, all spice cinnamon.

More like a neutral, like a white pepper.

Yeah.

Let's talk texture of this wine. Soft and round, angular and sharp or somewhere in between.

In between.

No one was like, oh, it's so acidic. And no one was like, oh, it's round and fatty kind of in the middle.

Definitely not round and fatty.

Oh, it's yummy.

It is yummy.

In terms of harshness, I'll put it above the last one. In between two and five. Harsh, meaning like on the side of your tongue. Like citrusy. Like, I'd say in between five is. Five is more harsh.

And then two is like the less harsh.

When you. You like this one.

Yeah. Is this the 15 one?

It is not. It is not. No. You want the $70, 121 year old budget, right? Aiden, when you say harsh, is that a negative word for you?

No, no, no, no, no. Harsh is in like, it's more on like the side of your tongue and.

Like, just more intense.

Just more intense.

Linear is more.

Less what you were saying.

Less buttery. Like, like 2 and 4 were like super buttery. So it's kind of. Lauren said with number two, like, it just goes down smooth.

And some of those, you just drink a lot of this one, it sits more. It's like on the side of my tongue. More the back of my. Just all over.

Like our whole mouth is involved in the sip here.

I was gonna say my entire tongue.

Like telling the story. Like, front, middle, back, side.

It's also like.

Yes, it's like the tip.

The tip on top. Like my whole.

Which.

What is on the tip of your tongue?

So the old.

Most of my thoughts on the old.

Dittos that we got in biology that said sweet is on this part of your tongue and salty is on this part. And savory. That has been debunked. It is now believed that you can sense all of those senses on every part of your tongue. So it's not that it's one.

Salty versus sweet.

Sometimes that happens. Think of what it is, though, sits in the glass.

The second time I took a sip, it was more citrusy than melony, but it still. It wasn't very a tart.

It was still new, neutral. So this wine is changing, right? So some of the wines that we've had today, you took a sip and you're like, here's what I think.

And then you took another sip or even the third sip, and you still thought the same thing. Whereas this wine it's like every time you take a sip, you're like, oh, there's something else.

I didn't stop before.

Is that just due to the nature of the wine? Is that due to the temperature of the wine? Is that due with other things?

Great question. It's a little bit of all of it.

The word and wine we call complex complexity, meaning there's layers in the glass, and it's literally unveiling itself to you every time you take a sip. Because the oxygen that's interacting with all the volatile compounds in there, it is like a freaking kaleidoscope in there.

It's not one picture and it's changing.

But did we feel that?

Do you guys know Gen Z and Alkaline? Okay, just checking.

Okay.

Did we feel that with any of.

The others that they were.

We're not quite iPad kids yet, so not quite.

You're like, in between. Susan, that was a great question. Repeat, please. Please repeat your question.

Did we feel that with all the others that they were changing in the glass so much?

No.

No, no.

Right.

So we're really making a big deal about it this time. Cause it's like, nobody even mentioned it.

Which is interesting because this is the sixth wine, and you guys are not like professional tasters that are used to rattle by the end, but you're. I ordered them in a way that I did, and it's not in a price order or anything like that, but there is definitely some complexity.

Right?

Okay. Yuck to yum. One to ten. Rate it. Six, Seven. Aiden.

God. Stop talking.

Oh, my God.

Stop.

Jenna stopped.

Because it's not over yet.

No.

Ooh, says the boomer.

I wish.

Before we do the reveal, final thoughts. Don't tell me your winners or anything. We'll do that in a minute.

But just what are your thoughts on having tasted six different chardonnays in one sitting?

Interesting confusion.

Yeah.

I think it's eye opening. And I felt like I knew that a little bit.

Just because you've been tasting.

Yeah, but it is. No, it's very eye opening, I think, for people who don't say, I hate chardonnay. And we went through that and till we had certain ones.

Was there a wine in the lineup that you liked that? Now that we're done with this, If I was like, hey, you can have a glass of this with our dinner.

Do you feel like you would want to drink one of these? I liked one as, like, we'll have.

A little before dinner.

But I liked six to stay with.

Okay.

I don't know That I could drink a lot of six, though, because there was so much.

But you're not supposed to drink a lot. You're supposed to have a little with your dinner.

Yeah. That is such a mom thing to say. Mom. Mom.

Okay.

Mom. You're not gonna get drunk, Bob.

She's trying to do the.

It's just not working. Okay, on the count of three, say your highest scoring wine. Just say the number. Ready? The number of the wine or the. Just say 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, or 6. Okay.

We're all gonna say them at the same time. Did everyone have a clear winner on their page? A clear high number?

I had twos, but I think I know which one is mine.

Ready? 1, 2, 3, 6.

4.

We had a lot of sixes, and we had a four. Would you say, Lloyd? Six? Yeah.

Really?

Oh. Cause it was the bourbon, that's why.

Come on.

All right.

Come on. Are you ready for the reveal? Yes. Wine number one.

Oh.

Joel got unoaked.

Oh, okay.

Chardonnay from California. It is $20 a bottle.

I feel like that's it.

And this was aged stainless steel, so our W was very small on this one. Right. Because it's aged in stainless steel. Joel got unoaked chardonnay gone. There got.

Oh, no, I'm thinking of.

You're thinking of the burger.

Hamburger place. Because it's the same family. Oh. That. Only the winery could buy that. Anyway, you can buy this anywhere.

I bought this in the liquor store in Matawan last week for 20 bucks. And it's very helpful because they literally put unoaked on the label, which a lot of places don't.

So if you know that you want absence of W or very small W. Joel got an.

If you like, one chardonnay.

That's my second favorite.

That's very drinkable.

That's what I said. Wine number two. Tell me real quick, what were some of the words that you said about wine number two? Woody smell movie, butter soft mouth feeling.

Okay. I give it a round. Five out of ten. Yeah.

Okay.

This is my boyfriend, Dave. Matthew, this is dreaming tree. $15 a bottle.

Two for me.

I won't tell David.

Sorry, David.

I won't tell David.

Sorry, Dave.

Because it was too rich for you.

Yeah, it's like the opposite of what I like. Yeah, I feel like. Very typical Chardonnay.

Very typical Chardonnay. This is from the central coast of California. It's a large production at $15 a bottle.

And when you read the winemaker's notes on it, it says aromas of apple Lemon and a touch of toasted almond. Toasted almond is an oak note, so they're calling it out. Oak notes. That's dreaming. Tree wine number two. Okay. Wine number three.

What was a word or two you said about wine number three? Subtle.

Tastes like nothing.

Yeah. Boring.

Well, the French are not going to be happy with you.

That would be like, a great one that you could just take to someone's house. I gave it. It's not very expensive.

This is great.

I feel like you could bring that.

Anywhere and people would be indifferent. Okay. Or happy with it.

One of those. So I can bring my b. I got you a French bottle of wine.

But I don't feel like it's going to be.

It's not a stand.

But if you don't like Chardonnay, people will like that. Yeah, yeah.

This is Burgundy region. Specifically. Beaune is the village within Burgundy. Within France. So you will also hear this called a white Burgundy. But this is from the Old world.

The same grape planted in France is very different than the same grape planted in California, which you've noticed today, because the climate, the soil, the wine making, all of that. Well, the vines are open.

Older there.

Yes. They have older vines there, but we don't know from this vineyard if they're older vines.

But generally, when we are used to drinking California wines, where it's sunshine in the glass because it's warm and it's uv, when we taste French wines, they tend to be more subtle.

So that was going to be my question. Is that typical of French? Like, more like in the middle?

Yes. Because they tend to be less ripe, lower alcohol. This was the lowest alcohol only of all of them, at 13%.

The name is Mecon Viage Chardonnay by Louis Jadot. What?

Because they drink it every meal, so they need it.

Well, this is.

They do. They do.

From the age of four.

Yeah. So that was your Burgundy right there. The French, then, will tolerate you.

Yes.

Wine number four. Words on wine number four were woody, bourbon, heavy.

Giant W. Yes. Marshmallow.

Okay.

Sweet and sweet.

Wine number four is. Ron Bauer is a wonderful producer in Napa Valley that is known for this style, which is heavily oak. Chardonnay, Your typical Chardonnay.

That's what they do. And people that love it, love it. And they've always done it that way. Yep.

Yeah.

The full malolactic fermentation. So the butteriness, the oakiness, all. All of those things are there. That's what this wine is known for.

This is like the quintessential oaky, buttery, Chardonnay that people tend to love or hate. This is $42 a bottle.

Wow.

And one of the higher alcohols of the wines you've had today at 14.5%.

What did you rate that?

A 1 out of 10.

I give it a 2.

So the point of doing this is now you're identifying which side of the spectrum you like your Chardonnay's to be on.

It's not the Oakley Battery side, but if we had 10 people sitting here, I guarantee there'd be one or two where this was their favorite, because that's just how it works.

Right.

So that one. Was this your favorite, Aiden?

This was my favorite.

Okay.

Interesting.

Yeah, it's just like, more of a bourbon guy myself. So, like, that oaky, woody, smoky bourbon.

Is about the barrel.

And then maybe it might have been the alcohol content in this as well that, like, I like, has that burn that you usually have with bourbon.

Yeah.

So it's probably wine.

Yes. Yes.

See how this is?

Okay, wine number five. You guys ready? Fried Mountain Vineyards. Did it taste familiar to anyone? Since I worked there for 30 years.

I wrote, never had it.

You never had it?

I wrote, yummy.

Yay. Well, that was the whole. Whole thing that.

Thank God, first of all, because your love of Pride Mountain Vineyard Chardonnay is what started this whole tasting. So we just kind of proved that in an unbiased way. Now, it wasn't necessarily your favorite in the tasting. F, E, W, big E, B, W. Yes.

But all of the things. The fruit finish and yummy. The fruit, the earth, and the wood were all balanced and at the same volume was not a big and a lower.

And I cheated and I looked.

Did you?

No.

You wrote yummy. Yes, I love it. It confirmed what you already knew. Other thoughts on the Pride, which is right around $50 a bottle. This is light oak and light.

Second, fermentation. So, Aiden, remember you were saying, like, I don't know if it's from the last wine, but there's a little bit of leftover oak that was from the wine.

This is aged in barrels, but most of them are used.

So it's a wine that was aged in oak, not stainless, not concrete, but it's not oaky because the barrels have been used and used, and all the oakiness went into the previous wines. Yummy. Okay. And then six was a crowd pleaser. And I'm so glad because I brought it with me because you can't buy it here.

This is a producer that I love called Three Sticks in Sonoma. I went tasting there about a month ago and brought this home specifically to share with you guys. This is the most expensive one at $70 a bottle.

But it's also probably, besides the pride, the smallest production.

Right.

Is 20.

Can we buy it here?

No, you have to buy it on their website, which I'll put in the show notes. The description on this is. This is from the Sonoma coast of Chardonnay.

This wine shines with the vibrant character, depth and elegance shaped by volcanic soils and the cooling influence of the Pacific Ocean and the San Pablo Bay. You guys liked that one, didn't you?

I wrote big F. Big F. Yummy.

You wrote yummy for five and six. Yes. You're a Homer. Sonoma Coast. Okay.

What'd they write for that?

What'd you write?

I did a big F, a big E and a low W. You.

Is using the FW acronym helpful in a way to conceptualize wine? Yeah, yeah.

It's a good one.

Final thoughts? Impressions? Takeaways from tasting six different Chardonnays from 15 to $70 a bottle, all from California, except the ringer from Burgundy.

I have one question back to the few.

Yeah.

Can you use few with red wine? Typically. Cuz I feel like I don't really ever get much of the woodiness red wine.

I feel like it's more of like a characteristic from what I've tried associate to white wine. So would you say it's still prominent?

100%? Absolutely.

And now that you know you can't. Unknown.

It's just that the red wines that you're probably exposed to are ones that we are enjoying here as a family and in this house. And a lot of them are not big W in the reds because we don't generally as a family love that.

But red wines, even if they're aged in newer barrels, they tolerate it better. And it's less obvious because the character of red wine is just more intense, that it's hidden a little bit more than it is in white wine.

That makes sense.

Except for Chardonnay, which is the winemaker's grape, which is how we started this conversation. Other final thoughts.

This is fun.

Don't be afraid of Chardonnay. It really can vary.

You go to a restaurant, you look at the wine lists. Yeah. What are quite on the list? What do you pick?

Or what now that you know what you like. If the big F wines were your favorites. When you are ordering in a restaurant, it's not necessarily going to say it on the menu.

Not at all.

But the server or especially if there's a sommelier in the restaurant who are trained on wine, you should tell them, I want a white wine that's very fruity and not very oaky or whatever it is. I like a round, soft mouth feel versus I want something really tart and angular. Just those little bit of words.

If you tell the server or the Somme, they should be able to say.

And I want to spend this and.

Always give them a budget $12 a glass. Because we saw there's a big difference in just these lines from 15 to 70.

And there's Chardonnays that I could have got for today that are two and three hundred dollars a bottle, especially from France. We didn't do that. Was this fun, guys? Should we have some pizza now?

Yes.

Cheers, you guys. Thanks for being good students. Cheers.

Cheers. Well, I certainly did not think that 67 was gonna make it into our Chardonnay wine tasting, but there it was very eye opening.

Right.

It was so interesting to lead them through that. And I hope that you found some tips and pointers and vocabulary and the few acronym that you can use to better identify what you like.

That way you know how to ask for it or shop for it next time you're looking to enjoy some beautiful Chardonnay. I also have to give a disclaimer that there is Chardonnay planted all over the world, not just in California and France.

So as different as they can be from one state like California because of the winemaking, imagine them when you add the differences of climate and soil and weather and all of those things from Australia and Chile and Italy, it's just mind boggling. So have fun with it and explore and let me know what you think, send me a note. Nikkiipwithnikki.

When you try something that you love, if you enjoyed listening to this virtual tasting and you think, oh man, this would be fun to participate in, whether virtually or in person, where I can come to you with the wines for a special occasion.

Also, let me [email protected] in the new year, I'm planning to do some new things, including some group tastings and both virtual and in person. So let me know if you'd like to get on the interest list for those. As promised, I will put the link to all six of these wines in the show notes.

So if you heard something that intrigued you, you can try to get your hands on them. And while I don't make Chardonnay, I do make beautiful Sonoma County Sangiovese and Grenache under my Solavato label.

And if you visit our website Sollevato S O L L E V a t o sollevatoines.com we can ship to most states in the US and be sure to use the discount code podlistener for 10% off your order. As always, I hope you had fun. And whatever you do between now and our next episode, I hope that you sip. Well.

You.

Don't.