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Becoming the lender of tomorrow with TMC President, Melissa Langdale
Episode 98th January 2024 • Batting 1,000 with Dale Vermillion • Dale Vermillion
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In the final episode of Season 2 of Batting 1,000, Dale Vermillion chats with Melissa Langdale, the new President of The Mortgage Collaborative (TMC). With over 20 years in the mortgage industry, Melissa brings a wealth of knowledge and experience. She discusses the key challenges faced by lenders in 2023 and the strategies they are employing to overcome them. Melissa also shares insights into what 2024 holds for the mortgage industry and highlights the importance of leveraging technology and building strong relationships.

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In This Episode

About The Mortgage Collaborative (starts at 3 mins)

Melissa shares about TMC's collaborative approach and the benefits it offers to its members.

Key challenges of 2023 (starts at 6 mins)

Dale and Melissa discuss the rising costs of origination, operational capacity, and growing market share.

Solutions for reducing origination costs (starts at 10 mins)

Dale and Melissa discuss strategies for reducing origination costs, improving operational efficiency, and leveraging technology.

Looking ahead to 2024 (starts at 24 mins)

Dale and Melissa discuss their predictions for the mortgage market in 2024 and the opportunities they anticipate.

The impact of mortgage technology and AI (starts at 32 mins)

Dale and Melissa explore the role of AI in the mortgage industry and its potential impact.

The centrality of servant leadership (starts at 42 mins)

Dale and Melissa discuss the key traits of great leaders and the significance of maintaining strong relationships in the industry.

Melissa’s 2024 outlook (starts at 50 mins)

Melissa's final thoughts on what lenders should focus on to thrive in the coming year.

Resources

Become a TMC Member

Attend a TMC Event

Schedule a call with Dale's Team

Soundbites

  • "Success happens with relationships and local markets that you serve."
  • "You need a balance of high touch and high tech."
  • "Leverage technology to scale your business without the swings of headcount."

About Melissa Langdale

Melissa Langdale is the President of The Mortgage Collaborative (TMC), bringing over 20 years of experience in the mortgage industry. She focuses on engaging with lender members and preferred partners, overseeing TMC's daily operations, financial management, events, team processes, and strategy. Melissa's extensive background spans business operations, sales, recruiting, marketing, capital markets, servicing, quality control, compliance, and risk management.

Connect with Melissa Langdale

LinkedIn → Melissa Langdale

Website → The Mortgage Collaborative

About Dale Vermillion

Having trained over 1,000,000 lending professionals and worked with over 600 organizations, Dale Vermillion has compiled the best practices of the nation’s top producers into a practical and proven system. Dale is a 3x HousingWire Vanguard, a member of the 2022 Global Mortgage 100, and the proud author of "Navigating the Mortgage Maze."

Connect with Dale

LinkedIn → Dale Vermillion

Facebook → Dale Vermillion Official

Twitter → @dalevermillion

Website → dalevermillion.com

Email → listen@dalevermillion.com

About Batting 1,000

Batting 1,000 with Dale Vermillion is a production of Mortgage Champions, a VCI company. Produced and edited by Jake Vermillion. Music by Envato Elements. Copyright 2024 © Vermillion Consulting, Inc., All Rights Reserved.

Transcripts

Dale Vermillion:

All right.

Dale Vermillion:

Hello everybody.

Dale Vermillion:

And welcome back to another edition of batting a thousand.

Dale Vermillion:

Um, this is our last edition for season two.

Dale Vermillion:

We've had some incredible guests and today is no different.

Dale Vermillion:

As you know, we interviewed the heavy hitters in the mortgage industry.

Dale Vermillion:

Uh, and today I've got an incredible guest.

Dale Vermillion:

Uh, Melissa Langdale is with us and Melissa is the president, the new

Dale Vermillion:

president, congratulations, by the way, Melissa, that's exciting news.

Dale Vermillion:

Uh, uh, the mortgage collaborative sometimes referred to as TMC.

Dale Vermillion:

If you don't know who the mortgage collaborative.

Dale Vermillion:

because they've been around for a long, long time.

Dale Vermillion:

I'll let her explain that to you, but just to give you a little bit

Dale Vermillion:

of credentials on Melissa, she'd been in the business over 20 years.

Dale Vermillion:

She has been in all kinds of different capacities and roles within the

Dale Vermillion:

mortgage arena from area manager to RVP, to being a, uh, basically

Dale Vermillion:

running the VP of operations for a very large lender in the country.

Dale Vermillion:

And she's got a lot of knowledge on.

Dale Vermillion:

What it takes to succeed in this marketplace and the challenges

Dale Vermillion:

that lenders faced in 2023 and the opportunities in 2024.

Dale Vermillion:

And that's exactly what we're going to talk about today.

Dale Vermillion:

So Melissa, welcome.

Dale Vermillion:

It is so good to have you.

Dale Vermillion:

Thank you

Melissa Langdale:

so much for having me.

Melissa Langdale:

I'm excited.

Dale Vermillion:

It's absolutely my honor to have you here.

Dale Vermillion:

And, um, let's begin, let's just begin by talking a little bit

Dale Vermillion:

about the Mortgage Collaborative.

Dale Vermillion:

And.

Dale Vermillion:

Uh, you know, what you guys do, what you stand for and, uh, help people

Dale Vermillion:

understand a little bit about, uh, the cause that you guys have and what

Dale Vermillion:

you're doing to change the mortgage industry on a, on a regular basis.

Melissa Langdale:

Yeah, I would love to talk about that.

Melissa Langdale:

I actually joined the Mortgage Collaborative as a lender as I was

Melissa Langdale:

building out a mortgage company for a community bank in North Carolina.

Melissa Langdale:

Um, and what, what kind of blew me away and what really got me

Melissa Langdale:

hooked was, uh, I walked into my first conference and I showed up

Melissa Langdale:

for this thing called a collab lab.

Melissa Langdale:

And if y'all don't know what this is, I'm going to tell you what it is.

Melissa Langdale:

It's really, really cool.

Melissa Langdale:

Everybody signs NDAs.

Melissa Langdale:

It's an executive kind of round table where you walk into the

Melissa Langdale:

room and you share everything and anything about your business.

Melissa Langdale:

It really helps executives across the country be able to bounce ideas off of

Melissa Langdale:

others that have either, um, you know, tried new things or, uh, maybe, um, you

Melissa Langdale:

know, looking to, to reinvent either workflow or, or kind of, um, looking

Melissa Langdale:

to optimize their balance sheet, you know, a million things, everything

Melissa Langdale:

and anything about their business.

Melissa Langdale:

They, they share it with each other to help each other to grow and.

Melissa Langdale:

That's one of the things that makes TMC so unique is that, um, we create

Melissa Langdale:

these experiences and, and these, uh, opportunities for executives across the

Melissa Langdale:

country to really get together and to help each other, uh, to grow their businesses.

Melissa Langdale:

And that's why we're called the collaborative, even though we are a

Melissa Langdale:

mortgage cooperative, um, you know, we're very intentional about saying that we're

Melissa Langdale:

a collaborative just for that reason.

Melissa Langdale:

It's.

Melissa Langdale:

It's our members, the information that they share, the, the network,

Melissa Langdale:

the relationships that they build, uh, that really makes us

Dale Vermillion:

unique.

Dale Vermillion:

That's awesome.

Dale Vermillion:

And we talked, uh, beforehand, I've got a couple of really dear friends and

Dale Vermillion:

longtime clients, Owen Lee, um, and Alison Johnson, who both served on your board.

Dale Vermillion:

Incredible people.

Dale Vermillion:

They can't speak highly enough about, uh, TMC.

Dale Vermillion:

And, uh, I love the, the, the Christmas setup.

Dale Vermillion:

You've got, you guys, uh, just went through the, the 12 days of TMC.

Dale Vermillion:

Talk about that a little bit.

Dale Vermillion:

'cause you do that every year.

Dale Vermillion:

It's a really cool event.

Dale Vermillion:

Talk about that and how people can benefit from that.

Melissa Langdale:

Yep, I don't have my Christmas tree up in January when this is

Melissa Langdale:

going to be here, so I'm not quite that crazy just for everybody that's here.

Melissa Langdale:

We do basically three conferences a year.

Melissa Langdale:

We do two in person conferences, and then we do one virtual conference,

Melissa Langdale:

which we call the 12 Days.

Melissa Langdale:

Um, we're also not crazy.

Melissa Langdale:

It's not 12 full days of conference material.

Melissa Langdale:

It's just a few hours in the afternoon.

Melissa Langdale:

We, we have a keynote and then we have breakout sessions to

Melissa Langdale:

help people to collaborate.

Melissa Langdale:

In fact, this year we're doing something really unique.

Melissa Langdale:

We're doing a, our, our first ever solution sprint.

Melissa Langdale:

Um, and we're tackling some of the industries.

Melissa Langdale:

Biggest challenges, um, like for right now, um, you know, increasing day one

Melissa Langdale:

certainty and aim utilization without increasing costs as most, you know,

Melissa Langdale:

kind of mortgage executives across the country, uh, are, are realizing right

Melissa Langdale:

now, the cost of credit reports across the verification services, all those

Melissa Langdale:

things are just continuing to add up.

Melissa Langdale:

And so we're, we're tackling that, um, as a network and in

Melissa Langdale:

a very fun, competitive way.

Melissa Langdale:

Uh, we're going to talk about how to, how to open up inventory in the market.

Melissa Langdale:

that we serve.

Melissa Langdale:

And then the last one is around creating operational efficient

Melissa Langdale:

efficiencies to be able to really keep our team at highest and best use.

Melissa Langdale:

And there's a ton of technology out there that's, that's helping to facilitate that.

Melissa Langdale:

But so those are the things our solutions front is, is tackling, but

Melissa Langdale:

we have, you know, this is a unique conference in the sense that we have

Melissa Langdale:

everybody from a loan officer and a processor on the call all the way to.

Melissa Langdale:

C-suite executives.

Melissa Langdale:

And so, uh, we really have a variety of content to make sure that, that they

Melissa Langdale:

all kind of get something out of it.

Melissa Langdale:

And it's a fun way for, um, you know, our, our entire network

Melissa Langdale:

and, and their employees to get involved, um, in, in something.

Melissa Langdale:

So it's, it's a lot of fun.

Melissa Langdale:

In fact, this is our biggest 12 days ever.

Melissa Langdale:

We have about 3,500 people registered Wow.

Melissa Langdale:

For lots and lots of fun.

Melissa Langdale:

Wow.

Melissa Langdale:

Fun excitement going on around it.

Melissa Langdale:

That is awesome.

Melissa Langdale:

This is not up in January.

Dale Vermillion:

Well, and I saw that you had, uh, your keynote was

Dale Vermillion:

my dear friend, Brittany Hodak.

Dale Vermillion:

Yes.

Dale Vermillion:

Well, I love Brittany.

Dale Vermillion:

She's awesome.

Melissa Langdale:

Gosh, she's just amazing.

Melissa Langdale:

I love her story.

Melissa Langdale:

Um, she's just, she's this.

Melissa Langdale:

Brilliant mix of, of, um, you know, customer experience, uh, you know,

Melissa Langdale:

uh, brilliance and, um, and this kind of fun, uh, fun personality.

Melissa Langdale:

So she, she balances those two things really well, which is.

Melissa Langdale:

Now,

Dale Vermillion:

if we could just get her to be a little more enthusiastic, we'd

Dale Vermillion:

probably be, you know, she has a fireplug.

Dale Vermillion:

I love, love, love, love chatting with her.

Dale Vermillion:

All right, well, let's, let's dive right in.

Dale Vermillion:

Um, you mentioned some really key things a moment ago where I want to kind of

Dale Vermillion:

focus and channel this conversation.

Dale Vermillion:

You know, we, we, we just are finishing up 2023.

Dale Vermillion:

Uh, it's been a very rough year for the mortgage industry.

Dale Vermillion:

Uh, Uh, been a very rough year for a lot of lenders and originators.

Dale Vermillion:

Although I will tell you very honestly, you know, we, we work at mortgage

Dale Vermillion:

champions with 27 different lenders across the country, and some of them

Dale Vermillion:

are having their best year in 2023.

Dale Vermillion:

They've ever had, uh, most of them are only about 30 percent off of

Dale Vermillion:

2021 numbers, which is kind of crazy.

Dale Vermillion:

Um, and, and, and that just proves the point that there's plenty of opportunity

Dale Vermillion:

when you do it right now, 2024 is coming.

Dale Vermillion:

Everything's trending in the right direction.

Dale Vermillion:

Rates are headed down, the Fed's pulling back, inflation's improving, inventory's

Dale Vermillion:

getting better, house starts are way up.

Dale Vermillion:

So we're seeing, you know, more and more and more new construction happening.

Dale Vermillion:

Uh, we're seeing more of a buyer's market versus a seller's market.

Dale Vermillion:

All of these things point to a really great 2024.

Dale Vermillion:

And then I think a stellar 2025 and 2026.

Dale Vermillion:

So you are in the trenches talking to lenders.

Dale Vermillion:

Every day about their challenges.

Dale Vermillion:

Let's begin by talking about what were the biggest challenges that you saw in 2023?

Dale Vermillion:

Give me three of them.

Dale Vermillion:

And then what, what are those solutions?

Dale Vermillion:

What are the things that your members are doing to overcome those?

Melissa Langdale:

That's a fantastic question.

Melissa Langdale:

Okay, three biggest challenges for 2023.

Melissa Langdale:

Um, I'll, I'll chunk it down to rising cost of origination, um, operational

Melissa Langdale:

capacity and kind of, you know, ensuring that companies are kind of maintaining

Melissa Langdale:

that based on volume and that, you know, Really is, um, based on, you

Melissa Langdale:

know, their profitability right there.

Melissa Langdale:

They're kind of, uh, adjusting, uh, capacity needs based on volume

Melissa Langdale:

and that affects their bottom line.

Melissa Langdale:

So, um, and then the last would be.

Melissa Langdale:

You know, growing growing market share.

Melissa Langdale:

There's, um, you know, there's a lot of opportunities, I think, for for lenders.

Melissa Langdale:

You mentioned that you've got a ton of of your customers that are growing in this

Melissa Langdale:

marketplace, and there's just I think there's a lot of opportunities for for

Melissa Langdale:

lenders that are innovating that are that are looking at new ways of doing things,

Melissa Langdale:

both from, you know, an operational workflow technology perspective, but also

Melissa Langdale:

their sales model, how they're how they're helping their loan uh, at the same time.

Melissa Langdale:

So, uh, cost of origination, uh, working on their, their bottom line

Melissa Langdale:

and operational capacity as a result.

Melissa Langdale:

And then, um, you know, looking at growing market share.

Dale Vermillion:

So let's begin with that first one.

Dale Vermillion:

Let's begin with the cost of origination and improving, uh, the way that you've

Dale Vermillion:

got your system set up, you know, uh, I've had a lot of conversations

Dale Vermillion:

with a lot of executives and high level people about this very topic.

Dale Vermillion:

When you really break it down, there's really, to me, there's only three ways

Dale Vermillion:

that you improve cost of origination.

Dale Vermillion:

One is cut costs.

Dale Vermillion:

That's your expense reductions.

Dale Vermillion:

Well, just about everybody's done that one.

Dale Vermillion:

Um, we've seen major layoffs, we've seen a lot of cutback on things,

Dale Vermillion:

and sometimes people are cutting the wrong things and sometimes

Dale Vermillion:

they're cutting the right things.

Dale Vermillion:

I think the second is commissions.

Dale Vermillion:

You've got to reduce commissions.

Dale Vermillion:

That's a conversation I want to have with you to hear what

Dale Vermillion:

you've heard from lenders.

Dale Vermillion:

I had Garth Graham on this year.

Dale Vermillion:

We talked a lot about this beginning of the year that, you know, based on

Dale Vermillion:

where projections of production has been and is going, there has to be

Dale Vermillion:

a case in point that at some point we got to pull back on commissions

Dale Vermillion:

in order to create profitability.

Dale Vermillion:

Cause we're.

Dale Vermillion:

Last time I looked, it's over 11, 000 to originate a loan in the mortgage industry.

Dale Vermillion:

That is just not, you know, as the old saying goes, that dog don't hunt.

Dale Vermillion:

We got to make sure we understand that.

Dale Vermillion:

And then the last thing, and this is the one that we focus on the most with our,

Dale Vermillion:

our lenders is conversion is improving that conversion rate by improving sales

Dale Vermillion:

process, improving operational processes.

Dale Vermillion:

So let's walk through those for just a minute.

Dale Vermillion:

And let's begin with that first piece of a cost expenditures.

Dale Vermillion:

What are some of the great things that you have seen lenders do to

Dale Vermillion:

create cost cutting that has really helped their business to succeed?

Dale Vermillion:

That maybe is a little bit out of the box.

Melissa Langdale:

We've seen people rethink workflow altogether.

Melissa Langdale:

Um, right.

Melissa Langdale:

You know, that, that kind of traditional LOA processor model, for example, um,

Melissa Langdale:

we've seen a lot of people looking at kind of, adjusting that to fit their,

Melissa Langdale:

their existing workflow as technology continues to evolve and, and systems,

Melissa Langdale:

um, continue to provide efficiencies.

Melissa Langdale:

um, there, there are things like that, that, that lenders can do

Melissa Langdale:

to try to help, uh, create some, um, you know, some efficiency in

Melissa Langdale:

their, in their overall process.

Melissa Langdale:

In, you know, some of that even affects.

Melissa Langdale:

A better customer experience by having kind of one point of

Melissa Langdale:

contact throughout the process.

Melissa Langdale:

Um, so there are things like that, that, that, um, individuals

Melissa Langdale:

are looking at doing today.

Melissa Langdale:

You know, there's, you hit a lot of really important points of, you know,

Melissa Langdale:

there's, there's kind of workflow design.

Melissa Langdale:

Um, there's, you know, technology stack, there's LO compensation, all

Melissa Langdale:

those things go into, um, go into, you know, the cost of origination, uh, over

Melissa Langdale:

the last several years, um, technology has, has not quite evolved as much as

Melissa Langdale:

customer expectations have evolved.

Melissa Langdale:

Right.

Melissa Langdale:

Especially in COVID, right.

Melissa Langdale:

We, You know, Amazon completely blew up and they were doing fantastic, but

Melissa Langdale:

now, you know, everybody's like, I can just order something and have it

Melissa Langdale:

delivered to me in two hours on my phone.

Melissa Langdale:

You know, why in the world does it still take 30 days to get

Melissa Langdale:

through the mortgage process?

Melissa Langdale:

And so we, a lot of our lenders are rethinking their overall process

Melissa Langdale:

to try to shorten that time.

Melissa Langdale:

You know, significantly, um, to just better meet customer expectations and

Melissa Langdale:

they're looking for technology to help them to do that, um, in, in an efficient

Melissa Langdale:

way, I will tell you that the challenges you, you end up and I know you know, this,

Melissa Langdale:

a lot of your, your listeners know this.

Melissa Langdale:

You end up with your core kind of loan origination system platform, and then

Melissa Langdale:

you're like, Oh, well, our customers need this and we need, you know, we need

Melissa Langdale:

this extra thing on top of it to help it to be a little bit more efficient.

Melissa Langdale:

And so you end up with kind of almost band aiding, um, you know, your,

Melissa Langdale:

your kind of core platform to meet customer expectations, to kind of help.

Melissa Langdale:

Um, you know, provide efficiencies in your, in your workflow too.

Melissa Langdale:

And so that, that definitely drives up the cost of origination

Melissa Langdale:

to go back to our earlier point.

Melissa Langdale:

And so everybody's thinking about things like that.

Melissa Langdale:

How do we rethink workflow?

Melissa Langdale:

How do we rethink kind of customer experience?

Melissa Langdale:

Help give our loan officers tools and and how do we do it in an efficient way

Melissa Langdale:

from a technology stack perspective?

Dale Vermillion:

And so what does a lender need to do?

Dale Vermillion:

What is the process and what are some of the best practices to

Dale Vermillion:

create a better structure than that?

Dale Vermillion:

You were a VP of operations, you know this inside and out You know, I've

Dale Vermillion:

said to every client I've ever worked with as I consult C level executives

Dale Vermillion:

and mid level managers Look, your biggest cost within the operational

Dale Vermillion:

capacity is duplicative efforts.

Dale Vermillion:

Anytime you got duplication, you're paying twice for the same thing.

Dale Vermillion:

And you gotta, you gotta get rid of that.

Dale Vermillion:

You got to understand where your duplication happens.

Dale Vermillion:

You've got to create more uniformity in your application system.

Dale Vermillion:

That's where things like online applications are very, very beneficial

Dale Vermillion:

because they create a uniform process.

Dale Vermillion:

We don't have, as I always call it, the napkin application that, you know, a

Dale Vermillion:

lot of retail loan officers are, are.

Dale Vermillion:

Guilty of, you know, here's a name and a number.

Dale Vermillion:

They want a loan.

Dale Vermillion:

Here you go.

Dale Vermillion:

And you mentioned something I think that's really important earlier, and

Dale Vermillion:

that's the LOA processor relationship.

Dale Vermillion:

I can't tell you how many times I've sat down with clients and I've said,

Dale Vermillion:

show me the job description for an LOA and show me the job description, your

Dale Vermillion:

processor, and I look at them and go.

Dale Vermillion:

It's the same job.

Dale Vermillion:

It's just a little different that they're taking a little

Dale Vermillion:

more application information.

Dale Vermillion:

Why don't you merge that into one position and put a little bit more emphasis

Dale Vermillion:

on the originations team to get more documentation upfront so that there's less

Dale Vermillion:

of that they have to do on the backend.

Dale Vermillion:

So give me some thoughts on that, because I know this is a

Dale Vermillion:

great area of expertise for you.

Melissa Langdale:

Yeah, well that whole processor, LOA,

Melissa Langdale:

you hit the nail on the head.

Melissa Langdale:

The, but the, the reason that they're separated in a lot of

Melissa Langdale:

cases is verifications, right?

Melissa Langdale:

They, they want kind of this, you know, significant separation between

Melissa Langdale:

sales and operations and Right.

Melissa Langdale:

You know, it, our industry has had a ton of fraud over the

Melissa Langdale:

years and this, you know, helps companies to kind of mitigate that.

Melissa Langdale:

But as our, as our, um, industry continues to evolve and technology

Melissa Langdale:

continues to evolve that whole direct to data connection with,

Melissa Langdale:

you know, verification platforms really reduces a lot of that risk.

Melissa Langdale:

And so it's important to rethink, okay, we, do we actually need these kind of

Melissa Langdale:

check the checker, um, layers in our process that really slow down the process,

Melissa Langdale:

add extra costs from both it, you know.

Melissa Langdale:

Um, uh, an employee standpoint, you know, you're, you're having to have all

Melissa Langdale:

this, this extra, you know, head count in order to just get a loan from ABC.

Melissa Langdale:

Um, and so, you know, it, it, it's those type of things that lenders

Melissa Langdale:

are, are rethinking and, and you hit the nail on the head that, that

Melissa Langdale:

particular role, that, that LOA processor has traditionally been the.

Melissa Langdale:

The easiest thing, I guess, for people to see that that is really

Melissa Langdale:

a check the checker, um, moment.

Melissa Langdale:

And so a lot of lenders are just rethinking what that looks like,

Melissa Langdale:

uh, in the future now that they've got kind of a lot of direct to

Melissa Langdale:

data connections with verification platforms, even though those are.

Melissa Langdale:

Those are, uh, very costly right now.

Dale Vermillion:

Yep, no question about it.

Dale Vermillion:

So, talk a little bit about, you mentioned earlier something really

Dale Vermillion:

important, and that is the whole day one certainty and the costs

Dale Vermillion:

that are going up on credit reports, title reports, I mean, you name it.

Dale Vermillion:

It's everything is going north instead of going south.

Dale Vermillion:

And you said you guys had, uh, you know, a collaborative of people that were talking

Dale Vermillion:

about that, of lenders and executives.

Dale Vermillion:

Tell, tell our audience.

Dale Vermillion:

You know, what, what came out of that?

Dale Vermillion:

What were some of the solutions and ideas that came out of that?

Dale Vermillion:

Because that would be pure gold to the listeners.

Melissa Langdale:

Yeah, I, we're still in the midst of it.

Melissa Langdale:

So it's a, um, we, uh, our, our, our presentations will be December 15th.

Melissa Langdale:

Um, and I know this, this is going to air after that, but we'll have a

Melissa Langdale:

press release that goes through all of the solutions that were presented.

Melissa Langdale:

Um, and just to make sure that the, the industry is aware of.

Melissa Langdale:

of some things that people can do on a regular basis to help.

Melissa Langdale:

Um, that particularly is, is, I think has been a challenge for our industry

Melissa Langdale:

and has a lot of, uh, potential opportunities for improvements over time.

Melissa Langdale:

For, for example, today, Day One Certainty and AIM both utilize this kind of direct

Melissa Langdale:

to data connection that in a lot of cases requires the customer to log in to.

Melissa Langdale:

To some platform.

Melissa Langdale:

And so anytime this kind of layer of, um, you know, password, you know,

Melissa Langdale:

customers having to share their password with their lenders in the process,

Melissa Langdale:

they automatically get this, you know, kind of pause of, okay, well, how

Melissa Langdale:

much of my data are you gathering?

Melissa Langdale:

How often are you going to pull it?

Melissa Langdale:

Like, do I need to change my password after this?

Melissa Langdale:

Is this really safe for me to do in other words?

Melissa Langdale:

And so, you know, what's been, I think what's been holding back, you

Melissa Langdale:

know, uncertainty in AIM utilization is, is really the, the customer being

Melissa Langdale:

comfortable and confident in sharing their, their data throughout the process.

Melissa Langdale:

So I think there's, there's going to be continued opportunities for us to

Melissa Langdale:

find better systems for customers to be more comfortable, uh, with sharing,

Melissa Langdale:

sharing their information or lenders getting it directly, um, you know,

Melissa Langdale:

from sources without necessarily needing that, that customer layer.

Melissa Langdale:

And it could.

Melissa Langdale:

You know, reduce fraud for the industry as a whole too, right?

Melissa Langdale:

If, if lenders are going direct to data, direct to IRS, direct to payroll,

Melissa Langdale:

direct to, you know, all of those things, you, you naturally reduce the

Melissa Langdale:

risk of a customer, um, leveraging generative AI to create a pay, uh, you

Melissa Langdale:

know, a pay stub or a W 2 or, you know, all of those sorts of things that,

Melissa Langdale:

that are in our space right now and, and lenders are having to deal with.

Dale Vermillion:

It's a little mind boggling, isn't it?

Melissa Langdale:

You know, those layers have been in our space for, for so.

Melissa Langdale:

So long and less generative AI, you know, can, can help, uh, with creation of some

Melissa Langdale:

of those things, but frankly whiteout and, um, a typewriter could have helped

Melissa Langdale:

with those things back in the day too.

Melissa Langdale:

So those lenders will always be in our industry.

Dale Vermillion:

So you, you talk to lenders all over the place and you've

Dale Vermillion:

seen the same thing that I've seen.

Dale Vermillion:

You've seen the lenders who are doing very well in this market.

Dale Vermillion:

Okay.

Dale Vermillion:

And they're kind of like, well, I don't get what the problem is.

Dale Vermillion:

You see the lenders that are just freaking out and they

Dale Vermillion:

really don't know where to go.

Dale Vermillion:

Okay.

Dale Vermillion:

Here's my question for you.

Dale Vermillion:

The ones on this hand, the ones that are really doing well.

Dale Vermillion:

Okay, tell me what you're seeing in them that is making them successful and from

Dale Vermillion:

any vantage point, from mindset, how they think about the industry and the

Dale Vermillion:

business methodology, what they're doing to make differences, give us a little

Dale Vermillion:

bit of insight on what you're hearing from those top producing lenders are some

Dale Vermillion:

strategies and some things that they are implementing that is making a difference.

Melissa Langdale:

Some of this probably won't be rocket science to

Melissa Langdale:

you, but we, um, you know, a lot of our lenders that are growing right now

Melissa Langdale:

are doing it with really experienced purchase focused loan officers.

Melissa Langdale:

Right.

Melissa Langdale:

And, and we've talked about that as an industry for years, but

Melissa Langdale:

that is the, that is the kind of.

Melissa Langdale:

Um, the foundation that that a lot of mortgage successful

Melissa Langdale:

mortgage companies live on it.

Melissa Langdale:

And that's where, you know, we've seen our lenders continue to grow

Melissa Langdale:

is that they're, they're really focused on hiring some of the best.

Melissa Langdale:

They have a fantastic recruiting program.

Melissa Langdale:

They have a fantastic marketing platform.

Melissa Langdale:

To be able to support those loan officers and they have reasonable expectations

Melissa Langdale:

from a compensation perspective.

Melissa Langdale:

Most of the loan officers that are out there today recognize that they,

Melissa Langdale:

there's a balance of being competitive in the marketplace with kind of,

Melissa Langdale:

you know, compensation models.

Melissa Langdale:

Um, At lenders and they want the lender to be reasonable.

Melissa Langdale:

I, I don't think anybody's, you know, coming out of the gate these

Melissa Langdale:

days and saying, Hey, I want to make 200 pips on a, on a loan and

Melissa Langdale:

be priced out of the marketplace.

Melissa Langdale:

Right.

Melissa Langdale:

So, you know, I think most everybody right now, as long as compensation is

Melissa Langdale:

reasonable, um, in the marketplace.

Melissa Langdale:

They're going to be fine, but they're really looking for tools.

Melissa Langdale:

They're looking for tools to be successful.

Melissa Langdale:

They're looking for a fantastic operation team behind them that they,

Melissa Langdale:

they can call on at any given moment to give answers, give updates, move the

Melissa Langdale:

process through really, really quickly.

Melissa Langdale:

Um, so again, I don't think any of that's rocket science.

Melissa Langdale:

Those are things that, you know, top producing retail and officers

Melissa Langdale:

across the country have been doing for years and years and years.

Dale Vermillion:

Well, and you're right, it's not rocket science, but

Dale Vermillion:

you said a couple of very important things there that I want to unpack now.

Dale Vermillion:

So, you started by saying, very experienced, purchase loan officers, okay?

Dale Vermillion:

And the thing that I pick up in that, and I talk about this all the time, in

Dale Vermillion:

fact, I just did a speaking engagement, um, both at AIM, uh, FUSE, and, uh,

Dale Vermillion:

the month of November and then did something again at the Lenny Tree Summit.

Dale Vermillion:

And I talked about this on both places, specialization.

Dale Vermillion:

It's so important today.

Dale Vermillion:

You know, the, the companies that I see that do well, they

Dale Vermillion:

don't have a loan officer that handles purchase, refi, HELOC.

Dale Vermillion:

All of it, you know, it's the jack of all trades, master of none.

Dale Vermillion:

Um, and that's not what referral partners want.

Dale Vermillion:

They want experts.

Dale Vermillion:

They want specialists.

Dale Vermillion:

So the fact that, that companies that are doing well have purchased specialists,

Dale Vermillion:

they also have refi specialists that are experienced in that product.

Dale Vermillion:

They're not crossing over.

Dale Vermillion:

They're, they're focusing on doing it right.

Dale Vermillion:

How much is that playing a role in them being successful?

Dale Vermillion:

You think?

Melissa Langdale:

I mean, I think you hit the nail on the head.

Melissa Langdale:

I mean, obviously, everybody in the marketplace today is looking at is looking

Melissa Langdale:

at purchase business with the kind of rare exception of maybe a cash out refi,

Melissa Langdale:

um, or, you know, an equity line, like you mentioned, but the majority of the

Melissa Langdale:

market, obviously, today is purchase.

Melissa Langdale:

And so, you know, Referral partners, realtors, um, you know, in some

Melissa Langdale:

cases, financial planners, divorce attorneys, those sort of things are

Melissa Langdale:

all looking for individuals that can help them to ensure that their

Melissa Langdale:

customers are well taken care of.

Melissa Langdale:

And it really does take somebody that's in that space all the time

Melissa Langdale:

to understand all the layers that goes into the purchase cycle.

Melissa Langdale:

Um, you know, all the, the layers that the realtor has to deal with

Melissa Langdale:

all the layers that, you know, if they're going through a divorce, for

Melissa Langdale:

example, that they have to deal with.

Melissa Langdale:

And it takes somebody to understand that whole process.

Melissa Langdale:

Um, you got to be in it every day to understand it.

Melissa Langdale:

So I totally agree with you that the, the, you know, focusing in on, on one

Melissa Langdale:

particular area can be really, really helpful and is really driving a lot of.

Melissa Langdale:

Uh, you know, top producing loan officers across the country to continue to be

Dale Vermillion:

successful, right?

Dale Vermillion:

And I think it's important we define what experience is because, you know,

Dale Vermillion:

if, if a lot of times when we think about the experience, for example,

Dale Vermillion:

purchase specialist, a lot of those people are close to retirement.

Dale Vermillion:

Now, if you look at the average age of mortgage originators, particularly

Dale Vermillion:

in the distributed retail market, it's close to 60 years old now.

Dale Vermillion:

That many of them are and they've made a lot of money in years.

Dale Vermillion:

They don't necessarily have to work.

Dale Vermillion:

So you got to find the people that are still hungry.

Dale Vermillion:

So got that fire in the belly, you know, no matter what their age is, they've got

Dale Vermillion:

a, they've got a runway ahead of them still that they're going after, because if

Dale Vermillion:

you're getting them in the twilight of a career, they might not, even though they

Dale Vermillion:

may have been very successful in the past.

Dale Vermillion:

It doesn't mean they're going to be very successful in the future.

Dale Vermillion:

You need somebody in this market.

Dale Vermillion:

Who's very driven because it's a market where, you know, the realtor's business

Dale Vermillion:

is much slower than it used to be.

Dale Vermillion:

You have to have a much bigger network than ever before.

Dale Vermillion:

The, these are all essentials to, to this process.

Dale Vermillion:

So when we talk experience, experience might only be five to 10 years.

Dale Vermillion:

It's five to 10 years of high production where they've done

Dale Vermillion:

it again and again and again.

Dale Vermillion:

And they're proven entity.

Dale Vermillion:

And I think you said the most important thing there, because I get this question

Dale Vermillion:

a lot from leaders about recruiting.

Dale Vermillion:

Okay.

Dale Vermillion:

When you're recruiting, who are you looking for?

Dale Vermillion:

We have, you know, I hear a lot from leaders.

Dale Vermillion:

Well, you know, I get guys who want big signing bonuses or I get gals who want

Dale Vermillion:

to come in and you know, they, they, they want this high basis point percentage.

Dale Vermillion:

I don't see that very much in my conversations.

Dale Vermillion:

What I hear a lot is, I want the tools.

Dale Vermillion:

I want the technology.

Dale Vermillion:

I want the marketing support.

Dale Vermillion:

Uh, I want the education.

Dale Vermillion:

I want a great ops department that backs me up.

Dale Vermillion:

These are the things that seem to matter more.

Dale Vermillion:

Would you agree with that statement?

Melissa Langdale:

100 percent agree.

Melissa Langdale:

And I, I want to go back to one thing that you said to you, you mentioned all of

Melissa Langdale:

the, All of the things that loan officers have to do today to be successful.

Melissa Langdale:

Um, you know, in this cycle, particularly not unlike, although it is a little

Melissa Langdale:

different, um, not unlike 2008, 2009, loan officers are having to do more in

Melissa Langdale:

order to get the same amount of business.

Melissa Langdale:

And, and I have seen, you know, that, um, kind of.

Melissa Langdale:

Either younger generation or, um, kind of, you mentioned like five to 10 years

Melissa Langdale:

of, of experience, those that have enough experience that they're knowledgeable,

Melissa Langdale:

they're driven, they're willing to pivot and do, you know, try new things.

Melissa Langdale:

And they're the, the hustlers, you know, in this case, you know, for, for lack of

Melissa Langdale:

a better word, those are, it may not even be that they're working 90 hours a week.

Melissa Langdale:

Right.

Melissa Langdale:

They're, they're just.

Melissa Langdale:

They're leveraging technology to do more with less.

Melissa Langdale:

They're, they're, um, creating great marketing platforms.

Melissa Langdale:

They're, um, in systems.

Melissa Langdale:

They're creating teams behind them that can keep that, that kind of

Melissa Langdale:

wheel churning so that they're constantly at highest and best use.

Melissa Langdale:

And so, um, the companies that figure out how to support those loan officers.

Melissa Langdale:

It's going to be a lot of fun to watch them grow.

Dale Vermillion:

Yeah, it will.

Dale Vermillion:

So let me ask you a question.

Dale Vermillion:

Then let's talk about a different perspective on personnel.

Dale Vermillion:

Um, you know, I started in the business, I've been 40 years doing this gig.

Dale Vermillion:

I started in 1983 years, I managed all the way up to running a national

Dale Vermillion:

mortgage company with 900 loan officers and 2, 300 employees.

Dale Vermillion:

So had a little experience before I got into training consulting on Dealing

Dale Vermillion:

with salespeople and operations people.

Dale Vermillion:

And interestingly enough, my philosophy of hiring was the same for all 12 years.

Dale Vermillion:

If you had one day mortgage experience, I wouldn't hire you.

Dale Vermillion:

I only hired people off the street.

Dale Vermillion:

I only hired people that were go getters, hustlers, that wanted

Dale Vermillion:

to learn, that wanted to grow.

Dale Vermillion:

And in those days you could do that very effectively.

Dale Vermillion:

Okay, now fast forward 2023 2024.

Dale Vermillion:

Okay, I hear from a lot of clients, you know what, I don't think that's

Dale Vermillion:

the way you can hire anymore.

Dale Vermillion:

And I, I always push back on that and go, I don't think you can

Dale Vermillion:

hire a hundred percent like that.

Dale Vermillion:

That would be a challenge.

Dale Vermillion:

However, if you have a core of experienced leaders that are in your Originations

Dale Vermillion:

team, and you can bring in people who are hungry with today's technology

Dale Vermillion:

that helps aid a lot of what they do.

Dale Vermillion:

Uh, with today's opportunity to network so much easier than you used to.

Dale Vermillion:

And with their understanding of things like social media and how to communicate

Dale Vermillion:

in different ways, video, video is a huge way to communicate today for today's

Dale Vermillion:

marketplace, because that's what people are used to with all of the, you know,

Dale Vermillion:

the reels that everybody watches and tick tocks, the biggest thing on the planet.

Dale Vermillion:

So do you hear or much from your lenders about.

Dale Vermillion:

Bringing in new people and training them from the ground up because at some

Dale Vermillion:

point you're going to have to do that.

Dale Vermillion:

You can't always hire experienced because then you're just

Dale Vermillion:

cannibalizing your own business.

Dale Vermillion:

Talk to me a little bit about that mindset and that thought.

Melissa Langdale:

You know, that, that's always, it's always a struggle.

Melissa Langdale:

Um, you know, there, there is.

Melissa Langdale:

There is a space for those, those hungry individuals to definitely

Melissa Langdale:

partner with top producers.

Melissa Langdale:

And I have seen some of our lenders doing it.

Melissa Langdale:

In fact, we've had a lot of requests.

Melissa Langdale:

We have a platform called TMCU, um, which is our, um, TMCU university.

Melissa Langdale:

And that, you know, we're, we're building out kind of a mortgage

Melissa Langdale:

essentials products within that.

Melissa Langdale:

because we, we keep hearing, um, from our lenders that they really would

Melissa Langdale:

love to be able to take advantage of that opportunity to bring in new to the

Melissa Langdale:

industry folks for a lot of reasons.

Melissa Langdale:

Um, you know, our, our, the speed of innovation and in our space today is

Melissa Langdale:

really, really fast and having individuals that can come in with a different

Melissa Langdale:

perspective and have different, you know, insights on, you know, like you said, how

Melissa Langdale:

to, how to leverage social media, how to.

Melissa Langdale:

Um, you know, uh, do video and do reels and, um, you know, shift kind of the

Melissa Langdale:

marketing strategy is really important and really valuable to organizations.

Melissa Langdale:

But there has to be kind of a, a way for them to have a baseline

Melissa Langdale:

knowledge build in the process.

Melissa Langdale:

And so partnering them with, you know, with folks, like you said, that are,

Melissa Langdale:

that are experienced leaders that can see the opportunity to grow as a, you know,

Melissa Langdale:

as they bring in this next generation.

Melissa Langdale:

Could be really, really impactful for organization and for that

Melissa Langdale:

leader that's bringing them on.

Dale Vermillion:

That's good.

Dale Vermillion:

Building a partnering mentoring kind of philosophy, having, uh, utilizing

Dale Vermillion:

resources like you guys have, and we have, where you're training, we're

Dale Vermillion:

training loan officers every day from the ground up how to do this.

Dale Vermillion:

And, and I'll tell you something that will kind of shock you.

Dale Vermillion:

Uh, um, and you know, I've worked with over 700 lenders

Dale Vermillion:

in the 27 years I've done this.

Dale Vermillion:

And we're usually working with about 30 in any given year.

Dale Vermillion:

And, um, this year in 2023, The top three clients that I have that have

Dale Vermillion:

made the most money, produce the most business and have the highest units

Dale Vermillion:

and dollars per loan officer are all refinance only, believe it or not.

Dale Vermillion:

And they are all three consumer direct.

Dale Vermillion:

And they all three have gone by the philosophy of we're bringing

Dale Vermillion:

people in off the street.

Dale Vermillion:

We're not hiring experienced people and we're training them from the ground up.

Dale Vermillion:

So there is a case for that that says it can work.

Dale Vermillion:

Um, if you really have specialists who are well trained, but each of them also

Dale Vermillion:

has a mentoring program, just like you're talking about, where they have experienced

Dale Vermillion:

people that have done it, that they can.

Dale Vermillion:

put them side by side.

Dale Vermillion:

They can coach and mentor them.

Dale Vermillion:

Uh, you know, and what they find is that those mentors actually do more

Dale Vermillion:

production, not less because they're kind of showing off in front of the

Dale Vermillion:

rookie is what it comes down to.

Dale Vermillion:

So there is a case for that.

Dale Vermillion:

And I think You know, the, the services you guys provide, uh, and hopefully

Dale Vermillion:

we provide are very valuable in doing that because that's where I think the

Dale Vermillion:

market's going to go in the future and certainly consumer direct, it's easier

Dale Vermillion:

to bring in people off the street than our distributed retail, because you're

Dale Vermillion:

talking about long relationships that have been forged with partners, referral

Dale Vermillion:

partners, that's a little different game.

Dale Vermillion:

Although I will tell you, you know, I love to share the story.

Dale Vermillion:

There's, there's a lady that I trained a year and a half ago at a large

Dale Vermillion:

bank, fresh, fresh off the street, never been in the mortgage business.

Dale Vermillion:

And.

Dale Vermillion:

I trained her on just open houses.

Dale Vermillion:

I said, just go do open houses and, and, and you'll be successful.

Dale Vermillion:

Lo and behold, in, uh, the, I think it was August or September of

Dale Vermillion:

this year, it was her 11th month.

Dale Vermillion:

And she had 4.

Dale Vermillion:

6 million in production in her 11th month.

Dale Vermillion:

And I said, how'd you do it?

Dale Vermillion:

She said, I go to six open houses every Saturday and that fuels the

Dale Vermillion:

fire for the entire rest of the week.

Dale Vermillion:

So there is business out there if you go after it and do it.

Dale Vermillion:

All right, let's talk about, um, let's talk about technology

Dale Vermillion:

a little bit more for a minute.

Dale Vermillion:

Um, AI is coming.

Dale Vermillion:

We know that.

Dale Vermillion:

What do you think?

Dale Vermillion:

It's here.

Dale Vermillion:

Yeah, I should say that, but it's coming more and more and

Dale Vermillion:

more to the mortgage industry.

Dale Vermillion:

What do you think the impact is going to be?

Dale Vermillion:

And what do you see as the pluses and minuses of AI?

Melissa Langdale:

Gosh, that's, there's a lot in that.

Melissa Langdale:

So, you know, obviously AI is here.

Melissa Langdale:

There, there's a lot for lenders to think about both from how

Melissa Langdale:

do I, how do I leverage it appropriately, um, in my organization?

Melissa Langdale:

How do I understand really the risk that our organization has?

Melissa Langdale:

Um, and then, you know, how do we.

Melissa Langdale:

How do we continue to innovate at the speed that consumers want and

Melissa Langdale:

leverage that to be able to do that?

Melissa Langdale:

And it's, but, but also not just build a front end engine.

Melissa Langdale:

Um, that's really, really fast.

Melissa Langdale:

How do I leverage it to produce quality loans and to sell them faster?

Melissa Langdale:

Um, and so, you know, there's, there's ways to, to use AI

Melissa Langdale:

for all of those things.

Melissa Langdale:

You know, I, I see it today as, um, there's, there's processes that mortgage

Melissa Langdale:

has built, for example, underwriters, um, you know, you bring in a brand

Melissa Langdale:

new underwriter, what do you do?

Melissa Langdale:

Uh, you, you put them through a QC process, of course, you don't tell

Melissa Langdale:

them they can underwrite, you know, FHA loans with no guidance, um, there's

Melissa Langdale:

things like that, that, that lenders are really starting to think through,

Melissa Langdale:

how do I leverage AI in a way that.

Melissa Langdale:

Um, that keeps my team at highest and best use, but also allows me to keep a pulse

Melissa Langdale:

on, on, um, what's working and what might not be working from an AI perspective.

Melissa Langdale:

Not a lot of lenders are considering kind of decisioning, um, through, through AI.

Melissa Langdale:

They're, they're mostly considering how do I create kind of operational efficiency

Melissa Langdale:

scenario desks, for example, for their, their underwriters or their loan officers.

Melissa Langdale:

Um, there are some technology providers that, that are in our network that

Melissa Langdale:

are looking at ways to either create, um, transparency in the process with

Melissa Langdale:

consumers as they're going through a mortgage, um, with, with kind of task

Melissa Langdale:

creation and, um, document review, uh, faster and, and things like that,

Melissa Langdale:

that, um, Um, you know, it's fantastic.

Melissa Langdale:

They're improving customer experience, but they're not really

Melissa Langdale:

relying on it for decisioning.

Melissa Langdale:

They have kind of human and loop processes or QC processes where

Melissa Langdale:

they're kind of testing the systems.

Melissa Langdale:

I think the probably our regulators, our GSEs, um, are a little nervous

Melissa Langdale:

about AI because there are so many things that it is capable of.

Melissa Langdale:

Especially as it learns more and more and more over time.

Melissa Langdale:

And really, you know, there's, there probably will be eventually expectations

Melissa Langdale:

of lenders that they're going to be kind of held accountable for the decisions

Melissa Langdale:

that they're allowing systems to, uh, to have, but we'll, we'll see where it goes.

Melissa Langdale:

Um, you know, they're, they're held accountable today

Melissa Langdale:

to underwriter decisions.

Melissa Langdale:

Right.

Melissa Langdale:

Um, and so, uh, you know, I, I think there's.

Melissa Langdale:

There's going to be a lot that's evolving.

Melissa Langdale:

It is evolving really, really, really fast.

Melissa Langdale:

That we're, we spend a lot of time talking about it with our lenders.

Melissa Langdale:

In fact, I created a, um, a group that is an innovation focused

Melissa Langdale:

working group, uh, that spends a lot of time talking about AI.

Melissa Langdale:

It's called SparkLab.

Melissa Langdale:

Um, and, uh, you know, just.

Melissa Langdale:

Helping everybody to understand the difference between kind of basic

Melissa Langdale:

business roles that you build in your, your system that, that creates kind of

Melissa Langdale:

a little bit of operational efficiency to, you know, AI and then generative AI

Melissa Langdale:

that really needs kind of large language models that you're using for, for some

Melissa Langdale:

level of maybe income calculations or, you know, but it's not like full

Melissa Langdale:

decisioning, but it, but it has the ability of, of digesting information and

Melissa Langdale:

providing significant data to the process.

Dale Vermillion:

Okay, good.

Dale Vermillion:

It's interesting because I've got a very good friend of mine.

Dale Vermillion:

I've known for 25 years.

Dale Vermillion:

He has been the head of, uh, some very large lenders, technology departments.

Dale Vermillion:

He is just a whiz when it comes to all the technology.

Dale Vermillion:

And we had a conversation about AI and I learned something from him that I never

Dale Vermillion:

knew that there's different about him.

Dale Vermillion:

Places, I guess you can get AI from and what their company does, he's, he's

Dale Vermillion:

now running, running his own company.

Dale Vermillion:

What they do is they go in and they'll take questions and they'll put them

Dale Vermillion:

in and they'll match the four and.

Dale Vermillion:

A lot of them are incorrect, not even close to correct.

Dale Vermillion:

And then one is closer and then one's the actual number that you'll get.

Dale Vermillion:

And, and they're constantly screening through to get the right

Dale Vermillion:

and best answer all the time.

Dale Vermillion:

So, you know, there's a lot of efficiencies that we gained by AI, but

Dale Vermillion:

lenders will have to be really careful.

Dale Vermillion:

Cause I know this was the number one conversation that I heard at the

Dale Vermillion:

Lenny Tree summit when I was speaking at that, you know, that, that's it.

Dale Vermillion:

That was a tech.

Dale Vermillion:

a tech conference for all intents and purposes.

Dale Vermillion:

And AI was the rage of the conversation.

Dale Vermillion:

And some people were really excited and some people were scared to death.

Dale Vermillion:

And, you know, it was such a wide scope that I saw.

Dale Vermillion:

Yep.

Dale Vermillion:

It's

Melissa Langdale:

you hit the nail on the head.

Melissa Langdale:

It really is, um, data in, like, you've got to have a big enough

Melissa Langdale:

language model and a really good system for helping AI to learn.

Melissa Langdale:

Yep.

Melissa Langdale:

Um, and, and I think that's where the, the.

Melissa Langdale:

You know, evolution needs to continue to go in the mortgage space is that

Melissa Langdale:

we have to be able to ensure that these platforms are learning the

Melissa Langdale:

right way for a lot of reasons.

Melissa Langdale:

You don't want, um, you know, a part of the process to unintentionally

Melissa Langdale:

discourage a customer to, to not move forward because, um, you know,

Melissa Langdale:

they don't have the full picture or they're making the wrong decision or,

Melissa Langdale:

you know, whatever the case, there's.

Melissa Langdale:

there's like fair lending implications in some of this too.

Melissa Langdale:

And so, um, yes, you, you have to be able to understand the data that's going in.

Melissa Langdale:

You have to have a good test process, um, you know, to ensure that it's learning

Melissa Langdale:

the way that you, you want it to learn.

Melissa Langdale:

So

Dale Vermillion:

2024 for a minute.

Dale Vermillion:

Um, uh, what do you see from the mortgage collaborative?

Dale Vermillion:

What, what do you see and kind of, you know, what is your, um,

Dale Vermillion:

What is your outlook for 2024?

Dale Vermillion:

Give us the good, the bad and the ugly.

Melissa Langdale:

Well, if we all had a crystal ball.

Dale Vermillion:

Good point.

Dale Vermillion:

That's a good start.

Melissa Langdale:

You know, I'll just preface that, right?

Melissa Langdale:

Hopes and dreams and wishes and unicorns and rainbows.

Melissa Langdale:

I think that, um, you know, Look, our, our industry has been challenged

Melissa Langdale:

over the last couple of years.

Melissa Langdale:

I think challenges, um, are, are actually kind of cool because they

Melissa Langdale:

allow for, um, lenders and, and our industry to kind of rethink things.

Melissa Langdale:

And, um, you know, I, I think they've spent a lot of time rethinking things

Melissa Langdale:

and those that have really built a good, solid foundation of, of, you

Melissa Langdale:

know, innovation as well as support, um, are, are going to be really.

Melissa Langdale:

Poised in 2024 is that market starts to shift and I think that

Melissa Langdale:

it will, um, you know, that, that they're going to be able to take

Melissa Langdale:

some market share when that happens.

Melissa Langdale:

Um, so it'll be, it'll be interesting.

Melissa Langdale:

I mean, you know, look at the end of the day, there's a significant

Melissa Langdale:

portion of the, um, of homeowners across the country that have interest

Melissa Langdale:

rates that, uh, even if rates go down to, you know, 6 percent won't be.

Melissa Langdale:

percent won't be refinanceable.

Melissa Langdale:

Um, and so, you know, I, I don't think we're going to see a giant

Melissa Langdale:

surge of refinance opportunities.

Melissa Langdale:

I could be wrong.

Melissa Langdale:

Um, I, I, you know, hope for our industry that I am, but I think

Melissa Langdale:

there's going to be a really solid purchase market in the coming year.

Melissa Langdale:

I think you're going to see inventory, you know, open up some of these,

Melissa Langdale:

um, Um, Some of the builders that, that you've mentioned have kind

Melissa Langdale:

of increased starts are going to start to hit the market in 2024.

Melissa Langdale:

And so this, I think all of those things coming together is

Melissa Langdale:

going to make for a good year.

Dale Vermillion:

Yeah.

Dale Vermillion:

I mean, in the month of December or month of November, the statistics on new home

Dale Vermillion:

starts was annualized million new homes.

Dale Vermillion:

That's a lot of new inventory.

Dale Vermillion:

When you consider where we're.

Dale Vermillion:

Our numbers are at right now, so that should lag into 2024.

Dale Vermillion:

We've still got some supply chain issues and other things that we're

Dale Vermillion:

dealing with, but you know, overall, I think that's going to be good.

Dale Vermillion:

And look from a refinance perspective, if we do get down in the low

Dale Vermillion:

sixes, high fives, I mean, we've, we've made a fair amount of loans.

Dale Vermillion:

I mean, 325, 000 approximate loans will close in 2023.

Dale Vermillion:

Um, and an average probably of 7.

Dale Vermillion:

25 percent coupon.

Dale Vermillion:

If you average them all out, you get down to six there, there's some

Dale Vermillion:

opportunities, especially when you include in the fact that the average

Dale Vermillion:

credit cardage straight is up to 27.

Dale Vermillion:

8 percent right now.

Dale Vermillion:

That's the average.

Dale Vermillion:

That's not, that's crazy.

Dale Vermillion:

That's, that means we got 35 percent credit cards out there,

Dale Vermillion:

you know, home equity lines are 13, 14 percent a lot of times.

Dale Vermillion:

So when you start looking at all those blended rates and putting all that debt

Dale Vermillion:

together and consumer debt is by far the highest it's ever been in us history.

Dale Vermillion:

While at the same time, equity is the highest has ever been in us history.

Dale Vermillion:

So there's opportunities there, I think for 2024, but, uh, I'm with you.

Dale Vermillion:

I think that, I think we're going to see much better trending, Uh, from what

Dale Vermillion:

we saw this year, we, we had some major things that happened this year that

Dale Vermillion:

we thought we were going to see that.

Dale Vermillion:

And then we had the debt ceiling problem.

Dale Vermillion:

And then we had the downgrade from Fitch, you know, just, it seemed

Dale Vermillion:

like one thing after another hit 2024 is an election year.

Dale Vermillion:

That's always a good thing.

Dale Vermillion:

Good things happen in election years, generally for the mortgage industry.

Dale Vermillion:

Melissa Langdale: Historically, you're right.

Dale Vermillion:

There, there is generally a lowering of interest rates in an election year.

Dale Vermillion:

So we can all, we can all

Dale Vermillion:

look forward to that.

Dale Vermillion:

Let's hope that really happens because we don't, yeah, I don't want to hear any

Dale Vermillion:

more reports in 2024 of hawkish comments.

Dale Vermillion:

I'm so tired of that phrase, hawkish comments.

Dale Vermillion:

I've seen that so many times.

Dale Vermillion:

All right.

Dale Vermillion:

So give us, um, to kind of wrap this up, uh, from your perspective.

Dale Vermillion:

Two or three things that you think are critical for lenders to really be

Dale Vermillion:

doing in the coming year and really be focusing on to improve their businesses.

Dale Vermillion:

Um, uh, straight, straight from, from your book, from your playbook, this

Dale Vermillion:

is some Melissa wisdom for everybody to, to have no pressure at all.

Dale Vermillion:

We, we know, we know you, we know you've got the experience and the,

Dale Vermillion:

and the wisdom to share with that.

Dale Vermillion:

So give lenders an idea of what you think should be happening in 2024.

Melissa Langdale:

You know, I, I think, um, the, with the market looking to shift,

Melissa Langdale:

um, you know, in the coming year, I think it's going to be really, really important

Melissa Langdale:

for leaders to understand what their teams really need in order to navigate

Melissa Langdale:

something like that, um, especially when staffing levels have been low and have

Melissa Langdale:

had to be, you know, lowered over the last, you know, couple of years, right?

Melissa Langdale:

Um, it's going to be important for the, You know, leaders to step up and realize

Melissa Langdale:

that their teams are going to need different things in a growing market.

Melissa Langdale:

Uh, it's also going to be important to, to not, um, to, to manage kind

Melissa Langdale:

of expectations as the market, uh, shifts and, and try to leverage

Melissa Langdale:

technology as much as they can to.

Melissa Langdale:

scale businesses, um, with, without necessarily having the swings of, of

Melissa Langdale:

headcount, um, that our, our industry has seen over the years and needed to

Melissa Langdale:

have seen, uh, to keep loans moving.

Melissa Langdale:

Um, so leverage technology, be fantastic leaders.

Melissa Langdale:

Um, and you know, I think continue to build relationships in the markets

Melissa Langdale:

that they serve at the end of the day, you and I know we've been in

Melissa Langdale:

this industry long enough that.

Melissa Langdale:

you know, success happens with relationships and local markets

Melissa Langdale:

that you serve, put you in front of the right customers that are really

Melissa Langdale:

ready, willing, and able to buy.

Melissa Langdale:

Um, and so, yeah, build relationships, be great leaders and, uh, try to scale

Melissa Langdale:

as much as possible with technology.

Dale Vermillion:

Okay.

Dale Vermillion:

So let me ask you two final questions then on that.

Dale Vermillion:

Let's talk about being a great leader.

Dale Vermillion:

Define that.

Dale Vermillion:

For me, but from, from your perspective, you meet leaders all the time.

Dale Vermillion:

You see the great ones.

Dale Vermillion:

What are the characteristics that you see in them that somebody can

Dale Vermillion:

say, man, I need more of that.

Melissa Langdale:

Yeah.

Melissa Langdale:

Gosh, that's such a good question.

Melissa Langdale:

Uh, everybody defines leadership a little bit different.

Melissa Langdale:

I, um, am a, a servant leader kind of mentality at the end of the day is

Melissa Langdale:

about kind of bringing vision, being the compass for your, your team that they

Melissa Langdale:

need, kind of showing them the direction the company has to go and helping them

Melissa Langdale:

and guiding them along the way to, to keep moving in the right direction.

Melissa Langdale:

And I think as long as you're You know, you're, you're one step ahead of

Melissa Langdale:

where your, your company wants to go.

Melissa Langdale:

And you've got this really fantastic vision.

Melissa Langdale:

You're a great communicator along it.

Melissa Langdale:

And you, you are understanding and caring of the people around you.

Melissa Langdale:

Um, I don't know that that to me is a great leader.

Dale Vermillion:

I love what you just said there.

Dale Vermillion:

That was pure gold.

Dale Vermillion:

When you said be a compass for your organization.

Dale Vermillion:

I think, I think the mortgage collaborator should get a t shirt.

Dale Vermillion:

That says that I think that's a great, great, because it's, that's

Dale Vermillion:

a great visual right there is you got to be the North star as a leader

Dale Vermillion:

and couldn't agree with you more.

Dale Vermillion:

If you're not a servant leader, you're not a leader in my book, period.

Dale Vermillion:

Because if you're not serving your people, then they think you're in it for yourself.

Dale Vermillion:

And the moment they think that they're not going to follow you anywhere.

Dale Vermillion:

And I loved how you talked about the power of the importance of communication

Dale Vermillion:

to have a vision communicated effectively and make sure you're keeping that

Dale Vermillion:

really positive mindset going forward.

Dale Vermillion:

Because the thing that I see the most common in the best leaders

Dale Vermillion:

is you just can't get them down.

Dale Vermillion:

I mean, it doesn't matter what the market does.

Dale Vermillion:

They understand, you know, what it's, it's what I call the pivoting concept.

Dale Vermillion:

Okay.

Dale Vermillion:

So that's a problem.

Dale Vermillion:

Nothing we can do to change it.

Dale Vermillion:

Let's solve it.

Dale Vermillion:

Let's now take that problem.

Dale Vermillion:

Let's turn it into something good.

Dale Vermillion:

Let's work through this and not look backwards.

Dale Vermillion:

They're always looking out the front window.

Dale Vermillion:

They're not looking in the rear view mirror.

Melissa Langdale:

That's right.

Melissa Langdale:

And I, I think you just hit the nail on the head that kind of perfecting the art

Melissa Langdale:

of the pivot, um, can, can absolutely help leaders, you know, be that compass, right?

Melissa Langdale:

Um, maybe the, the direction needs to, to move a little bit, but you

Melissa Langdale:

Uh, just recognizing the fact that, you know, the same things you did

Melissa Langdale:

yesterday and changing work won't be the things that are necessary

Melissa Langdale:

needed for your team in the future.

Melissa Langdale:

And so,

Dale Vermillion:

uh, I love it.

Dale Vermillion:

It's good.

Dale Vermillion:

And then let's talk, the last thing is about relationship.

Dale Vermillion:

You talked about that too.

Dale Vermillion:

And, you know, this is something that, that I talk about.

Dale Vermillion:

All the time, you know, I, I've been a partner with ICE, uh, mortgage technology

Dale Vermillion:

and that whole group for a long time.

Dale Vermillion:

And I've spoke at their conferences year after year.

Dale Vermillion:

I'm speaking again, uh, this year in 2024.

Dale Vermillion:

Um, and what I've really focused those speeches around is high tech, high

Dale Vermillion:

touch, you know, technology's critical.

Dale Vermillion:

You, you gotta have it.

Dale Vermillion:

You've got to be up to date on it.

Dale Vermillion:

You got to use it for efficiencies, but what you can't use it for.

Dale Vermillion:

is building relationship and loyalty.

Dale Vermillion:

You need people to do that.

Dale Vermillion:

You need conversations with your customers, conversations with

Dale Vermillion:

your partners that are value based conversations where you really build

Dale Vermillion:

deep relationships, really understand their needs, understand their

Dale Vermillion:

goals, understand their challenges, and then solve those things.

Dale Vermillion:

Give me a little bit more of your thought process on the power and importance of

Dale Vermillion:

relationship in today's marketplace.

Dale Vermillion:

Because a lot of people think, Oh no, Just build a great technology and go to town.

Dale Vermillion:

But we've seen a lot of fintech companies fail miserably where their

Dale Vermillion:

whole mindset was all tech for the consumer, no personal relationship.

Dale Vermillion:

And what I'm seeing is my top clients, it's all personal relationship.

Melissa Langdale:

You know, I think there's a balance of it.

Melissa Langdale:

I'll kind of play devil's advocate a little bit.

Melissa Langdale:

Yeah, I do.

Melissa Langdale:

I think there's a balance and you hit the nail on the head, but what

Melissa Langdale:

you were talking about at your ICE conference is the balance of

Melissa Langdale:

kind of high touch and high tech.

Melissa Langdale:

Um, there, there, there are places for technology to allow customers

Melissa Langdale:

to have transparency in the process.

Melissa Langdale:

To be able to self serve as they have the knowledge and skill

Melissa Langdale:

set and ability to self serve.

Melissa Langdale:

And, um, and also have a high touch person that's coming along

Melissa Langdale:

beside them and helping them to get through one of the biggest financial

Melissa Langdale:

decisions that they're having to make in their lifetime, especially if

Melissa Langdale:

they're doing it for the first time.

Melissa Langdale:

Right.

Melissa Langdale:

And so there is that, that balance, I think of.

Melissa Langdale:

Allowing them to self serve where they can and being that resource, um, to

Melissa Langdale:

help them to think broader beyond.

Melissa Langdale:

I just need an interest rate.

Melissa Langdale:

You know, um, you know, I had one of my, my loan officers, you know,

Melissa Langdale:

years and years and years ago, and he would have, you know, this is like

Melissa Langdale:

an age old question where customers call and they say, Hey, what, what,

Melissa Langdale:

you know, what's your interest rate, what's your 30 year fixed rate today?

Melissa Langdale:

And he would always answer it with, well, What rate do you need?

Melissa Langdale:

I, I have all of the rates and it was such a brilliant way to just.

Melissa Langdale:

Just, just flip the conversation and say, what's really important to you.

Melissa Langdale:

And I think as long as loan officers are taking that approach and being

Melissa Langdale:

really, um, consultative to customers as well as their real estate partners

Melissa Langdale:

and referral partners, the key is, is you gotta have both sides.

Melissa Langdale:

You can be fantastic on the customer side, but if you're not building

Melissa Langdale:

relationships with your realtors, your builders, your financial planners,

Melissa Langdale:

your divorce attorneys, those, Those people that are continually, um, you

Melissa Langdale:

know, providing you with referrals.

Melissa Langdale:

You're, you're going to miss the boat.

Melissa Langdale:

Cause somebody else is going to do it.

Melissa Langdale:

That's right.

Dale Vermillion:

That's right.

Dale Vermillion:

Yeah.

Dale Vermillion:

And just, just to clarify, in case I didn't make that clear, I am a huge fan of

Dale Vermillion:

technology and, and you have to have both.

Dale Vermillion:

You're absolutely right.

Dale Vermillion:

Couldn't agree with it more.

Dale Vermillion:

But, but as I look at today's marketplace, it feels to me like

Dale Vermillion:

you could survive better with.

Dale Vermillion:

lesser tech and higher relationship than you would with higher

Dale Vermillion:

tech and lesser relationship.

Dale Vermillion:

A hundred percent.

Dale Vermillion:

Yeah.

Dale Vermillion:

And, and, and you said something earlier that was important.

Dale Vermillion:

You said, you know, you got to know those customers that want to self serve.

Dale Vermillion:

And, and what I see in the industry a lot, and, you know, this year

Dale Vermillion:

alone, I probably listened over.

Dale Vermillion:

400 sales calls with my clients.

Dale Vermillion:

Because part of what I do, I'll train their loan.

Dale Vermillion:

We'll train their loan officers.

Dale Vermillion:

We'll train their leaders.

Dale Vermillion:

We train their ops team.

Dale Vermillion:

We work with the entire company to build a uniform selling system,

Dale Vermillion:

operation system, and leadership system.

Dale Vermillion:

It's all built around that servant leader mindset and serving your customers.

Dale Vermillion:

Well, but then what we'll do is we'll do shopper calls on the

Dale Vermillion:

backend to make sure they're doing the things that we want them to do.

Dale Vermillion:

And we've listened to call after call, after call, after call,

Dale Vermillion:

where the borrower was sent a link.

Dale Vermillion:

But the borrower actually never asked for the link.

Dale Vermillion:

They didn't really want to be self serve.

Dale Vermillion:

What the loan originator said was, well, I could take an application or I can

Dale Vermillion:

send you this link, which is much easier.

Dale Vermillion:

And the borrower was like, well, okay.

Dale Vermillion:

And then I look at studies that tell me again and again, and again, about 30

Dale Vermillion:

percent want to do the link and about 70 percent want to talk to a human being.

Dale Vermillion:

And I think that's where we're missing the boat in the industry a lot.

Melissa Langdale:

Yep.

Melissa Langdale:

I a hundred percent agree.

Melissa Langdale:

In, in fact, I, I.

Melissa Langdale:

Um, there's, there's a lot of ways that loan officers can do that.

Melissa Langdale:

And I think you hit the nail on the head that, but they got to ask the question.

Melissa Langdale:

Uh, they got to ask, like, what, what's important to you?

Melissa Langdale:

Yes.

Melissa Langdale:

Uh, what's important for you to, for, for us to have a 15 minute conversation

Melissa Langdale:

and walk through this, or are you strapped for time and you can do this

Melissa Langdale:

on your own and we'll, we'll sync after you fill out all your information.

Melissa Langdale:

But I also think there's another layer where we really can leverage technology.

Melissa Langdale:

To help our customers to know that we actually know them, you know, the, the,

Melissa Langdale:

um, at the end of the day, like there, there's a lot of industries that, um, that

Melissa Langdale:

keep customers for a really long time.

Melissa Langdale:

Mortgage has not been quite as successful.

Melissa Langdale:

And for a lot of reasons, really it's, you know, there's a giant

Melissa Langdale:

period of time between their last purchase and the one that they're

Melissa Langdale:

doing, you know, the next time.

Melissa Langdale:

But, but I do think there is an opportunity for, uh, for For lenders

Melissa Langdale:

to continue to think about how do I, how do I keep a lifetime customer?

Melissa Langdale:

Um, and there's, there's ways to leverage technology to pre populate applications

Melissa Langdale:

for them so that all they have to do is kind of go in and, and, you know, just

Melissa Langdale:

check and make sure that the information has not changed since the last time

Melissa Langdale:

that, that you did a loan for them.

Melissa Langdale:

Making that process, there's, there's barriers of going through the application

Melissa Langdale:

process as easy as possible, whether they're doing it online or you're, you're

Melissa Langdale:

doing it on the phone, um, breaking down those can, can make a big difference.

Dale Vermillion:

Well, that's a great way to end the, the, the interview

Dale Vermillion:

because that was gold right there.

Dale Vermillion:

You're absolutely right.

Dale Vermillion:

I mean, the reason we as an industry have not.

Dale Vermillion:

done a great job at retaining our customers because we don't stay in

Dale Vermillion:

contact after the sale, after the close, I, this is, this is probably

Dale Vermillion:

one of the things that I harp on the most with loan officers is look,

Dale Vermillion:

you're not going after one transaction.

Dale Vermillion:

You're going after a lifetime relationship if you're doing it right.

Dale Vermillion:

And all of those experienced loan officers we talked about earlier that

Dale Vermillion:

have had, you know, incredible careers.

Dale Vermillion:

That's what they did.

Dale Vermillion:

Um, you know, I just recently, uh, for our clients, we do a monthly

Dale Vermillion:

video every month on sales, right?

Dale Vermillion:

Bring a market update.

Dale Vermillion:

And then we talk about things that we think are important in the market.

Dale Vermillion:

And I did an interview with a, a realtor who did over 500 sales in 2022.

Dale Vermillion:

Uh, that's a big time realtor and he actually worked with one of the loan

Dale Vermillion:

officers that I trained and he said, you know, interesting fact, that loan officer

Dale Vermillion:

has stayed in touch when we've worked together for 10 years now and we sat down

Dale Vermillion:

a couple of months ago and we looked at a loan that we closed and we went down the

Dale Vermillion:

family tree and it turned out that that loan was the 51st loan originated from

Dale Vermillion:

the first person that this loan officer had gotten a loan from with that realtor.

Dale Vermillion:

Um, 51 loans because she stayed in touch month after month, year after year.

Dale Vermillion:

She said, I'm going to be your loan officer for life.

Dale Vermillion:

And she meant it.

Dale Vermillion:

And you know, today loan officers think they're too busy for that,

Dale Vermillion:

but technology can prompt them and guide them so that look, here it is.

Dale Vermillion:

It's right in front of you.

Dale Vermillion:

Just make a phone call.

Dale Vermillion:

No matter what you say, Hey, how you doing?

Dale Vermillion:

How's things going?

Dale Vermillion:

That's good enough.

Dale Vermillion:

Just keep it in touch.

Dale Vermillion:

We'll make a big difference in that longevity.

Melissa Langdale:

Yeah, absolutely.

Melissa Langdale:

And I love, yeah, the phone call, just, just, hi, how you doing?

Melissa Langdale:

How's your family?

Melissa Langdale:

How are your kids?

Melissa Langdale:

What's, you know, are the same things that are important to you?

Melissa Langdale:

You know, when we first talked important to you today, um, yeah, all

Melissa Langdale:

of those things make a huge difference.

Melissa Langdale:

Yeah.

Melissa Langdale:

How'd

Dale Vermillion:

the home improvements go?

Dale Vermillion:

Did you put the addition on?

Dale Vermillion:

Simple question.

Dale Vermillion:

You'll talk for 30 minutes with them about that.

Dale Vermillion:

And next thing you know, you're saying, you know what, I'm thinking

Dale Vermillion:

about, I need more money to do this.

Dale Vermillion:

And here we go.

Dale Vermillion:

You're right back into it again.

Dale Vermillion:

Awesome.

Dale Vermillion:

All right.

Dale Vermillion:

So let's, let's close out with, um, how do people reach out

Dale Vermillion:

to the Mortgage Collaborative?

Dale Vermillion:

Tell us a little bit about, uh, membership, what that

Dale Vermillion:

entails and provides.

Dale Vermillion:

I'm a, I'm a huge fan of what you guys do.

Dale Vermillion:

I certainly, anybody that's watching this, if you're not part of TMC, I

Dale Vermillion:

recommend you become part of TMC.

Dale Vermillion:

Talk to our audience about how they can do that and what do they get when they're

Dale Vermillion:

part of the Mortgage Collaborative.

Dale Vermillion:

Wow.

Dale Vermillion:

Thank

Melissa Langdale:

you so much for that.

Melissa Langdale:

Um, by the way, they can always reach out.

Melissa Langdale:

They can, they can, uh, we have, we have links on our website,

Melissa Langdale:

the mortgage collaborative.

Melissa Langdale:

com, um, that they can, they can reach out on.

Melissa Langdale:

They can always email me directly too.

Melissa Langdale:

And, and, um, I'll provide your, my LinkedIn profile and they

Melissa Langdale:

can reach out that way too.

Melissa Langdale:

So lots of different ways to get in touch with us.

Melissa Langdale:

Um, membership is really simple for our, our lenders across the country.

Melissa Langdale:

Um, you have one membership for your entire organization, um, have access

Melissa Langdale:

to, you know, two in person conferences, one virtual, like we talked about, but a

Melissa Langdale:

plethora of events throughout the year.

Melissa Langdale:

And I say plethora, um, and it probably doesn't even do it justice.

Melissa Langdale:

Every single week, we have four to five events that we put on for our members.

Melissa Langdale:

Every week we have working groups, lab labs, we have TMC connect sessions.

Melissa Langdale:

We do, you know, the rundown, um, with Rob Christman every Friday and last weekend

Melissa Langdale:

mortgage day, so you can keep in touch on, on, you know, the top news, um, Articles

Melissa Langdale:

that are happening throughout the week.

Melissa Langdale:

Like there's, there's a plethora of information that we provide

Melissa Langdale:

to our members on a daily basis.

Melissa Langdale:

Um, and then, you know, those in person conferences and the virtual

Melissa Langdale:

conference where we put people into groups and help them to.

Melissa Langdale:

To help each other to grow, uh, is, is really pretty special.

Melissa Langdale:

Um, and you know, outside of that, we, we actually have started just, just recently,

Melissa Langdale:

um, an advocacy committee where we're building really strong relationships

Melissa Langdale:

with agencies and regulators.

Melissa Langdale:

So that as you know, guideline change as, as policy changes, that

Melissa Langdale:

we can be a voice for our lenders.

Melissa Langdale:

Uh, as those sort of things happen and we can put them at the table with

Melissa Langdale:

the decision makers that are, that are changing policy, that are changing

Melissa Langdale:

guidelines and help them to understand regulators and agencies to understand,

Melissa Langdale:

um, what that means actually to consumers.

Melissa Langdale:

Cause a lot of our lenders, they're.

Melissa Langdale:

boots on the ground with customers every single day.

Melissa Langdale:

Um, and it's really important for our regulators and agencies to, to

Melissa Langdale:

have a good sense of what, what their policy changes mean for new customers.

Melissa Langdale:

Um, so all those things are in membership.

Melissa Langdale:

I could talk about it forever.

Melissa Langdale:

I know you want to wrap things up.

Melissa Langdale:

Uh, so just reach out, uh, on LinkedIn, our website.

Melissa Langdale:

We would love to chat with anybody.

Melissa Langdale:

Awesome.

Dale Vermillion:

Well, Melissa, you've been a delight.

Dale Vermillion:

Thank you so much for, for being on batting a thousand, uh, great,

Dale Vermillion:

great, um, advice and wisdom.

Dale Vermillion:

We really appreciate that.

Dale Vermillion:

I want to wish you a very Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year.

Dale Vermillion:

Uh, and, uh, look forward to, uh, to working with you again, hopefully in 2024.

Melissa Langdale:

That sounds fantastic.

Melissa Langdale:

Thank you so much for having me.

Melissa Langdale:

This was a pleasure and an

Dale Vermillion:

honor.

Dale Vermillion:

You're welcome.

Dale Vermillion:

God bless.

Dale Vermillion:

And we'll see you soon.

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