My guest today is Elle Williamson of The Ecommerce Assistant. Elle helps people build and grow their online businesses with the power of Shopify + Klaviyo to sell more online. Ella has made it her mission to teach everything she knows about ecommerce to founder-led businesses looking to thrive online.

Elle joins me to explain the Shopify 2.0 update, which has not received much publicity, and outlines what these new updates mean, and the additional features now available. 

Elle also shares a lot of great advice about how to personalise and elevate your Ecommerce website, and much of this advice will translate to whatever platform you are selling on.

Whether you are thinking of setting up an ecommerce website or looking for ways you can boost the performance of your current platform, there are lots and lots of tips here to take away and try. 

Listen in to hear Elle share:

• An introduction to herself and her business (01:24)
• What Shopify is (03:03)
• The advantages and plus points of Shopify (04:06)
• How Shopify compares with Amazon (05:39)
• What the Shopify 2:0 update is (07:01)
• The changes that Shopify have made, including reducing the need to rely on apps (08:05)
• How to get the updates (11:43)
• How much time to schedule for updating your Shopify to 2:0 (14:31)
• How to update your theme (17:44)
• What a theme is, and what to look for and consider when choosing a theme (19:05)
• How to demo and test a theme before purchasing (24:01)
• How much you expect to pay if you choose a paid theme (25:03)
• Tips for how to personalise a free theme, and make it stand out (29:00)
• Recommended best practises for your Shopify website (34:41)
• Examples of brands that have great Shopify websites (44:09)
• Ways to elevate your website with Shopify 2:0 (48:38)
• Her number one piece of advice for having a great Ecommerce website (53:04)

USEFUL RESOURCES:

The Ecommerce Assistant Website

The Ecommerce Assistant Instagram

Elle Williamson Linked In

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Welcome to the Bring Your Product Idea to Life podcast.

This is the podcast for you if you're getting started selling

products, or if you'd like to create your own product to sell.

I'm Vicki Weinberg, product creation coach and Amazon expert.

Every week I share friendly, practical advice as well as inspirational

stories from small businesses.

Lets get started.

So today on the podcast, I'm speaking to

Elle, the e-commerce assistant.

So Elle helps people build and grow their online businesses with the

power of Shopify to sell more online.

She's made it her mission to teach everything she knows

about e-commerce to founder led businesses looking to thrive online.

So I invited Elle specifically to talk about the Shopify 2.0 update, which

is something you may or may not have heard about, um, but we actually ended

up covering so much more than that in this chat, which I think is great.

So we spoke a lot about Shopify in general, Shopify websites, best

practice, the kind of things to include and I actually think a

lot of the advice Elle shares will translate whichever platform you're on.

So whether Shopify is a platform you're selling on or even thinking about.

I do still think this episode is well worth a listen, because as I say, a

lot of the advice she gives is pretty generic and will work anywhere.

But of course we do talk a lot about Shopify as well.

Um, personally I would say if you haven't created an e-commerce site

yet and you are looking to, Shopify is the one that I have experienced

of and personally I found it great.

And that was even before all of these additional features that are

talking, that we've talked about today.

So I definitely think it's worth taking a look.

Um, but anyway, I would now love to introduce you to Elle and as always,

if you have any questions about anything we cover in this episode,

do get in touch with one of us.

So, hi Elle.

Thank you so much for being here.

Thank you for having me, Vicki.

You're so welcome.

So can we start with you?

Please give an introduction to yourself, your business, um,

what you do and who you help.

Yeah, so I'm Elle.

I run the e-commerce assistant.

So I help small, um, and growing businesses who are selling online

predominantly with Shopify and Klaviyo.

But I've got an all round e-commerce, uh, experience.

So I've worked with different platforms, different businesses within

businesses, um, and now obviously alongside, um, small businesses.

And I do that with various different services.

But the big thing for me is all about teaching and training small businesses,

so that, and founders particularly so that they can do things themselves.

So a lot of my work is now one-to-one training or courses that I'm working on to

just give them that power back to be able to go, oh, I, I actually do understand

this because there's, there's a lot to learn obviously with the online world.

Yeah, so mainly small businesses, uh, mainly working with founders and

their teams and yeah, it's great.

I love doing it.

I love to help be that person that can come in and help and make that difference.

Even with small, you know, small things can actually make a big difference.

And I just, yeah, I love to do.

That's brilliant.

Thank you.

So we've got you on here today to talk about Shopify, which

I'm super excited to talk about.

I used Shopify years ago, but I know that it's changed since then.

So let's start off.

This is going to be a really basic question.

If anyone who hasn't heard of Shopify, tell us what Shopify is in a nutshell.

Okay.

So it's a platform for selling online in a nutshell.

Um, but having your own website, obviously there's lots of ways we

can sell online with marketplaces.

Um, obviously you're an Amazon expert, so there's all these different

options, but Shopify is the way to get your own website bill, I guess.

And I think what's so great about it, because you'll probably, if

you are just starting out, you've seen lots of different options.

Kind of create your own website and start selling a product online.

The thing with Shopify is that it's really easy to do.

It's really built for like doing it yourself.

Um, it also has that capacity to grow.

There are huge businesses using Shopify, don't get me wrong, and it

will grow with you, but it's like.

It's that starting point that is accessible to anyone.

Like, excuse me.

It obviously is a learning curve, but you can build your own website with it

and start selling like straight away, which is amazing for, you know, all the

small businesses out there right now.

Thank you.

And that's actually the exact reason that I chose Shopify all those years ago, was

from looking around and reading reviews.

It just seemed like the easiest one to do myself because I had no money,

no experience of that kind of thing.

Shopify just looked super, and it was, I mean, even things like setting

up payment providers and stuff.

Yeah.

I was quite shocked at how, not shocked is the right or maybe the wrong word.

So pleasantly surprised at how easy it was.

Absolutely.

And I think it is that accessible.

It's not easy.

Like obviously we're going to go through things that, um,

you, you don't necessarily know.

It's not easy as in like, oh, it's just going to start selling.

But just that access point I think is really easy.

There's sometimes some downsides to that, but if it's not, I find that

most people, you know, if I'm, if they just start, they log on for the first

time, they're, oh, they are pleasantly surprised by all of it that, oh, it is

kind of, it's quite simply laid out.

It's quite obvious what you need to do.

Like you said, linking up payments and things like that, that can cause us some

stress when we are, you know, running, trying to start or run a small business.

They do make those things really easy for you to do.

There's lots of support.

It's really well known.

You can go and look at other people's Shopify websites, obviously, like

it's just that it's, it's really accessible to people and most people

don't, don't need to then re-platform.

It will literally grow with you that, you know, if your aim is to grow

to like a multinational business, it will, it will do that for you.

Which is what's so amazing I think about it.

Yeah, that is really impressive.

And I agree with you that it's so easy.

When I say easy, I think easy on the setup side.

I mean, as you say, getting traffic to your website is a

completely different thing.

But when, so now I work a lot with Amazon and I can tell you if you

look at the Amazon platform versus the Shopify platform, it's so much

more difficult and you just think.

Absolutely.

Like Amazon, why could they have not done it like Shopify,

which is just so, yeah, user friendly.

I agree.

I've had some experience on Amazon myself and yeah, it's so different.

It's so, it's like they don't want people to sell on it in a way, whereas I feel

like obviously they do, but I feel like Shopify do, they want to help you and

they do want to help small business.

Okay.

They're a huge company.

Obviously there's profit that to be made, but I do feel like they want to help those

small startup businesses succeed online.

I feel like that's, that's one of their goals.

Obviously, they've also got other goals.

So they're, they, they're trying to make it easy.

However, obviously if you don't know where things are and you, you know,

you are, you are looking out for the first time, that's where I think you

can get tripped up, which is why I love to do the, the training and help

people like just break down those barriers that they, they do have.

Yeah, that's great.

And we'll talk about that a bit, a bit, little bit later actually.

It's like how to actually even get started on Shopify.

Because I'm sure there are some basics that you need to have in place,

but, so you've convinced us all that Shopify is a great place to sell.

I really want to talk about Shopify 2.0 because I'm not to date with.

Yeah.

Anything.

Well, um, and I've heard of Shopify 2.0, but I don't know much about it.

So could you start by just telling us what is Shopify 2.0?

What?

Yeah, what is it?

Yeah.

Firstly, I don't think Shopify have done a very good job of

explaining this to their merchants.

And I've said this to a few clients like it, there is stuff out there

and if you Google it, you'll see lots of different articles and

you'll see things from Shopify.

But I don't think they've broken it down in a really clear way.

Um, and also sold the benefits, because obviously that's what we want to know.

We want to know what it is, but we also want to know the benefits.

I've had to think about how I can most simply explain this.

So Shopify 2.0, you're still on Shopify.

There's no change.

You're not re-platforming.

It's not another website.

But what it basically is, is the operating system.

So just like Apple do updates to the operating system and you

have to update your phone and you leave it for a while, it updates.

It's kind of similar to that in that it's not going to dramatically

change the, the, the logging into Shopify, the dashboard's the same,

your products are in the same place.

All that is the same.

But the, the theme where the design of the website and the functionality of

the website is in your theme, that's had like the biggest changes that

Shopify kind of have ever made to that operating system within the theme.

So they've made things easier, they've made things look better,

they've given you more functionality.

They've basically given you the ability to create a website

yourself using a theme still.

So using that like basic structure, you're not having to custom,

you know, custom make a site.

Um, but you are able to have all these features now that allow you to kind

of make it look more custom made.

So I'm, I'll run through quickly just some of the things that includes, because I

think that makes it more clear for people.

So on your homepage, if you're currently using Shopify, you've got your sections

and you're dragging and dropping them.

You probably remember this Vicki, um, but until Shopify 2.0, your product pages and

your collection pages and your your about page, for example, they didn't have that.

You just had a page and you were using perhaps a page builders to do that.

Well, Shopify 2.0 now has sections.

They call it sections everywhere.

There's now those blocks on every page, so suddenly you've got the ability to really

customize, especially something like your product page, like really add in all

these different bits of content that you probably are seeing on the bigger website.

So that's like one of the biggest things.

Other things are, um, there's now something called meta fields, which

is how we create customized content on things like the product pages.

So that if you need to put in, show a different weight for every single

product, you can actually show that on your product page without using apps,

without having to custom code or, or do some funny little work around, which

is kind of what people have been doing.

Um, the themes are faster, the themes, the app integrations are easier.

They're just a little toggle on most of them now.

Um, It's just this amazing, like if you start using Shopify now, if

we've got people listening that have just started, they've, that they've

had all that kind of to begin with.

But the people that are perhaps, um, have a website that's, you know, 2,

3, 4, 5 years old and, and older, th this will feel quite new to them.

And, and, and it really is incredible to be able to make such

a, uh, kind of unique website.

But still with those, those themes that Shopify, um, have available.

That's really good.

Thank you.

So it's, I guess it's about, yeah, changing in a really simplified way

about giving you more options for how to.

Yeah, for how your website looks, because I do remember, yeah.

Um, like I said, it's been years since I've used Shopify, but one thing I

remember is I had to download lots of apps for different bits and pieces.

So if I wanted reviews, Showing on a product or even like a star rating.

I had to get an app to add in.

I think it was, I had some products with different variations.

Yeah, and I'm almost certain I needed to download an app.

I do remember there was quite a lot of, yeah, can I do this?

Let's go on Google, let's find out what app I need.

So I don't.

There will still be apps you need like reviews.

You, you still need an app for reviews because obviously

that's like another service.

You can use the Shopify app, but it's not very good.

So there, there's still some things that I will say, yep, you

need this app, this app, this app.

However, you're right in picking up on that, that when I've seen, uh,

people update with Shopify too, but I, where I've helped them do that

or I've done it myself for people.

There's a lot of things.

Yes.

That are now included that make your apps redundant and obviously

reducing down those apps could, could be reducing your costs.

It should speed your website up because all the apps are slowing it down.

So I have seen that.

Yes.

The another benefit is potentially the reduction on relying on apps or just

having that feature there rather than, like you say, you're having to take

that time to go, oh, you know, jump on Google and find something that does it.

It's kind of more intuitive, I would say.

There's more available natively within the themes.

That does sound really good.

And I'm really surprised actually that Shopify haven't

been talking more about this.

I know.

So how does it work?

I mean, um, is it something you have to update yourself or, or overnight?

Did everyone just just have this?

No, that's the problem I guess, Vicki, that

overnight they haven't just had it.

And I guess that's where, uh, maybe there's been a lack of, um, communication.

So no, you do have to do something.

So if you are on a paid theme already, if you've got a paid theme that you

are totally happy with, let's say.

Um, you just need to update your theme to the latest version.

Now, people should be doing that anyway, but I find again, that's something

that perhaps isn't being done that regularly because of time constraints.

The other problem is when you update your theme.

At the moment, but this is changing, when you update your theme at the

moment from an old theme to the latest version, to gain these features,

you are basically being given that blank theme that you might remember.

It's just like a, you've got to add in your fonts, your colors, all the, all

the customization that you've already got, you are kind of rebuilding,

um, which is a good and a bad thing.

I guess the bad side is that it's not just a click of a button.

If only.

That would be amazing.

The good thing is it's a good opportunity to actually go what's

working on my site and what's not, and what features have I always

wanted and I've not been able to get.

And what's oth what are other brands doing now?

Because the, the way that websites look now, even from 3, 4, 5 years ago,

they've just come on so far and a lot of websites I see look really out of date.

Um.

There's a lot more features now.

There's a lot.

There's better ways of doing things.

We all shop on mobile so much more so actually, even though yes, you've

got to kind of put in that work, I guess, and, and get the latest

update from your theme provider and then re sort of design your theme.

It's a really good opportunity just to actually go, well what, what works?

And, and maybe I do need to make some changes.

If you are on a free theme, you can update to a new free theme.

So, um, a lot of people are on debut theme on Shopify that's not available anymore.

So that's now a vintage theme.

And what that means is there's no, they're not going to make updates on it.

There's not going to be eventually any support for it.

So it's really, really important.

If you are on debut, have a look now and I really, really would recommend

you updating, even if it's just to the free versions, if you're not

ready to invest in a pay theme.

Um, although I would say have a look because the pay themes are so, so good.

Um, but debut is like redundant if you like.

Um, so that's worth doing.

Um, so the only cost I guess is like your time.

And if you are going to invest in a new paid theme.

So yeah, it's not easy, but it's, if you can take that time to do

it, I, it's so, so, so beneficial.

That's really helpful.

Thank you.

Now, I you have a few follow up questions, if that's okay?

Yeah.

So first of all is, so how, well, where should

I, what one should I ask first?

I guess first I'm going to ask is how much work do you think?

So let's say that you are on Shopify now.

Maybe you've got a paid theme, so you're going to update it

to get Spotify, Shopify's done.

Shopify 2.0.

Yeah, yeah.

Um, how much work is it to go in and update, as in

what is the basic, you can do.

What I'm, what I'm basically get trying to get here.

Is it an hour?

Is it half a day?

Is it, uh,

I would say.

More than that?

I would say if you're just copying like, like for

like, if you're just like that, I just want to get onto the new.

I just wan to have the new theme, like available if you

like, and, and, and onsite.

I, it is going to be more like days, I would say.

Maybe just a day if you're doing like, for like, but if you're going to

actually then use the features, which obviously is what we want people to do.

I want people to, um, you know, add in meta fields and have lovely tabs

on their product page and all this, all this lovely stuff you can do.

That's going to take a bit more time.

And I guess that's in the, the way to kind of speed that up

is, I guess with the planning.

So going, what do I want, what do other websites do?

What do I like when I shop?

How, how is my content currently laid out?

And how would it be?

But, you know, how would it look better?

The real, the the time is going to be on the product pages for sure.

That's, that's where I'm spending the most time on clients' websites.

So if people are doing it themselves, the homepage is going to be fairly similar.

Collection pages may be a bit of time, but it's really going to be the

product pages that take the most time.

So I would say it's a couple of days at least.

And obviously we've probably got lots of time for business owners

listening, so I guess it's just planning that out of when can you

kind of set that time aside to do it.

Uh, but it's not learning a whole new website platform or anything.

It should feel fairly familiar to you.

There'll just be a few new things that maybe trip you up.

Okay.

No, that's helpful.

Thank you.

And I, I think presumably as well, and we'll talk a little bit later about

best practices for websites and your tips on, you know, how to use these

new features to really elevate them.

But I'm assuming as well that you could, you know, if you are time poor, you

could just go and update the new theme, keep it as it is, and then over time,

yeah, spend an hour here and there just.

Absolutely.

Updating.

You could just like move over.

And I think especially if people are on an old theme, like debut, like I

said, there's a few others, uh, that I can't think off the top of my head,

but debut is so commonly used because it's that one that you get when you,

what you used to get when you just opened a Shopify store, it was the

one that was there for you, free.

So a lot of people just start building on that, which is fine.

Um, it's fairly basic, but, that, where there's that one

is now like a vintage theme.

I would say that you probably need to spend a little bit of time trying

to, uh, move to a, a new theme and yet, but yeah, you're right.

If you, if your time, if you have the time just to go, right, I'm going to

update, I'm going to make it like for like copy, sort of copy across all

those, uh, settings, uh, colours, fonts, you know, all that side of things.

Then yeah, say, well now I'm going to spend x amount of time a week working

on the product pages and enhancing that.

That's definitely where I would start.

Um, that, that would work too.

But it's just like, I guess breaking down.

It is a bigger task than.

I do get people that say, is it just the click of a button?

And honestly, I wish it was, uh, it's not.

But um, once you've updated.

You.

So where I've got clients already on Shopify 2.0, if there's then a new

theme version because your themes will be getting updates all the time where

the developers are fixing things, improving things, adding functionality.

You now get like a little notification to say, oh, your themes, you

know, there's an update to 8.00.

And now once you've got 2.0, the theme does kind of copy everything in it.

So you've kind of, it's much, much, much easier to then continually update.

So yeah, once you've done the, the, the main up upgrade, Shopify 2.0

themes, it does get easier to keep on top of those updates for sure.

That's really helpful.

Thank you.

Because it sounds like if I've, unless I've got this wrong, when

you update, you still do have to manually copy things over.

So it's not going to all translate for you.

Only the things within your theme.

So your products aren't affected.

You know, where you've set those all up, your collections, your

customer, all that stuff that sits outside of the theme or Shopify.

People who use Shopify will know what I mean, you know, on your dashboard.

Everything that's outside the theme, your pages, that's not being

affected, your s e o, you know, it's just that what's within the theme.

So it is just a case of yeah, maybe copying over your color, your hex code

and your font and, and the, and the sections that you currently have on

your homepage and, and, and picking the right images and, and things.

So it takes a bit of time for sure.

Thank you.

,And I've also realized that we've said theme so many times so far,

shall we, if it's okay, really quickly explain what a theme is.

I think anyone using Shopify will obviously be, yeah, be okay with this.

But for someone who perhaps is considering using Shopify, um, could you just

explain really simply what the theme is?

So the theme is just the, the template you are using.

So Shopify is, um, you can have a custom site built, but the huge majority of

people, small businesses especially, are using a theme, which is a template

design, if you like, of your site.

So it's got things set up for you, but then there's loads and

loads of settings that you change.

So it's a drag and drop editor, but you drag and drop the things you'd like to

show and then you've all the settings where you can obviously customize.

So it's your branding, your colours, your fonts and, and lots more other things.

But it's given you that, I guess that framework and that

template to, to work upon.

Um, which is why, again, going back to the start, that's why it's

great for people just starting out for small businesses, for people

without website design experience.

It gives you that framework to build.

That's brilliant.

Thank you.

And from what I remember, it was the main differences between themes were

maybe where the, the way the menu worked or how big the homepage picture was.

Um, yeah, it was more of a style thing, wasn't it?

Yeah, there is definitely, I mean,

there's so many themes.

This is something that people often say to me, what theme do I pick?

You know, there's like 90 something, if I remember rightly, in the

shop by theme store, which is where I would suggest you look.

Um, some being free and some being paid.

Yes, there'll definitely be that like look and feel that you kind of are drawn to.

There's also fu the, the features and the functionality

that I think people often miss.

So some themes, this is just one tiny example.

Some themes will have a, when you add to cart, they'll show, um, you need to

spend X amount to get your free delivery.

You know, when you've got a 50 pound free delivery spend.

Some themes have that, some themes don't.

So it's actually like, yes, look at the design and the look and feel.

And the blocks and the sections and, and if it, if you resonate with that

and you like that, but also it's really important to just have that like list

of, I guess, features you'd like?

Um, most themes are similar.

Now there's some amazing themes out there, but it's just in, if you really need

something, some sort of functionality, e-commerce functionality, it's worth

just making sure the theme, yeah, looks beautiful, but does it kind of do the job?

Because some look really nice and they're kind of, they do lack on the

functionality, so it, it, that can trip you up as well a little bit.

Um, but yeah, all they are all great on the Shopify theme store.

There.

There's some really great themes.

That's where if people are having a look now, that's where I would go.

Amazing.

Thank you.

And I'm not going to ask you to pick out a favorite theme because I know

that'll be different for everyone.

But what might be useful actually is, are there any features that you would

say, make sure your theme has this or are there, are there any, um, I don't

know, any key things where you're, where you say if you're starting

from scratch and you're looking for a theme check that it does these things.

That's such a tricky question.

You're right.

It does depend on the brand.

I've definitely got themes I work with more.

I don't work with some.

Some people work with the same theme across all sites, which is fine.

That's their choice.

But I have, obviously I could never, no one could ever learn to use all like

the features of every single theme.

So I guess most people like me probably have a select few that

they will sort of look at for a client and see, does that work?

In terms of features I look for.

I think it's, it's really hard because sometimes you've got, you might

like the look that you've kind of got to demo it to see what options

you've got because sometimes it's that they don't have the option to

give you, like on your navigation, you just said that as an example.

Your navigation menu, like has it got the option to have a left hand logo and

the, and then the menu in the middle and or has it got the option to have the

logo central and the menu B below it?

Like some themes have give you lots of options to do that.

So you can kind of make it fit with your brand and what you are after.

And then other themes don't have that option.

And then you are, you think, oh, I really want to have that left

justified logo, which is so common now, and your theme doesn't allow

it, or it doesn't look quite right.

So it's, it's kind of little things like that that I've come across

where I might talk to someone and say, oh, you should do this.

Like, like we've just said, the logo.

And they're like, oh, well I can't do that on my theme.

So I don't think there's like a key, I think it's making sure it's got

enough sales features is a big one, and by that I mean ways to enhance,

going back to product pages, ways to enhance your product page with,

here's the free delivery threshold.

And these, our products are made of organic cotton and like all these sales

points that you kind of need to make sure, um, are throughout the site.

Some themes do that better.

Um, but it's a really, it's a really tricky one to

pinpoint exact, um, features.

They are all really good now.

A lot of them have come on a long way, especially with Shopify 2.0.

Um.

So, yeah, sorry.

That's not the best answer.

No, it was a really good answer.

Thank you.

And I picked up on there that you're talking about demoing.

Can you demo a theme before you go ahead and purchase it?

So let's say you're going to look, you're looking at a page one.

Yeah.

So, um, you can build the whole theme pretty much so you can generally,

what I always say to do is demo.

Find the ones you like the look and feel of, then demo them.

So yeah, you just literally click demo.

It'll upload it to your, your theme, uh, list on Shopify.

And you can, like I say, play around with those setting things.

Go and see what the navigation looks like.

See what blocks you've got on the homepage.

Um, you can literally kind of build the whole theme.

Design it, add your colours, add in your content.

The, there's a few things you can't do.

You can't access the code until you buy it.

If you need to make any changes to that.

And you can't access the language, which is where you change

things like add to cart button.

You change it to add to bag, or add to basket.

But the look and feel, you can really make a good go of just with the demo,

um, and be, and it means you can be really sure that it's the right one for

you, which I think is really important.

So, yeah, def definitely demo something.

Don't demo too many because it could be really overwhelming, but I, two or

three probably would be a good idea.

That's so helpful.

Thank you.

And also coming back to the themes and when you mentioned free themes and

paid themes, and I know, I know you won't be, give those give us a sec,

but as a ballpark, what kind of cost are you looking at for a paid theme?

Um, uh, about 300, $350.

But it's, it's just once you just pay once.

Oh, okay.

So it's not a monthly thing.

Oh, that's really helpful.

So it's actually in the grand scheme of things where you're

paying for Shopify monthly, you know you want to sell on your website, 300, $350

ish one off, and then you get updates.

You can keep updating it as the developers add more features.

You've got the theme support from them as well.

I think it's, I think it's worth, even if budgets are tight, just seeing

if you can stretch to it because most people eventually move anyway

to a paid theme because they realize I can't do this on a free theme.

That's the difference with the free themes.

They have less functionality and the design features are aren't as good.

So, um, I think it's really reasonable.

Yeah, that's, that's better than I was expecting because

I thought you were going to say it's, I don't know, $15 a month

forever or something like that.

No, just one off.

That's really good.

Okay.

So, and it sounds like a free theme is okay if you don't want to

pay for a paid run, first of all.

So it would get you started.

Yeah.

But it sounds like what you're saying though is if you can invest

in a paid theme, it's probably good.

Because otherwise, I guess if a year down the line you're like, okay,

I want to update to a paid one.

Yeah.

It sounds like there's going to be a bit of work involved in that.

Exactly.

You're going to like rebuild the design of the site.

So, um.

If you can invest at the start, you don't have to.

The free themes.

There is some great ones now, because you've got this ability to add all

these sections in on all the pages.

They're definitely better than they were.

Um, and they can, they can look.

I find that the free themes.

I mean, I can tell that someone's theme normally just going on someone's

website, but that's because obviously I look at themes all the time.

I find that the free themes do look, just look a bit more basic.

They don't look as professional.

Um, they're harder to, even if you add in your branding, they kind of still look

like a, like a template and what we want, we want to be able to use templates and

themes that are templates, but we want the end goal, the website, to look like

almost professionally designed, don't we?

That's that's the, that's the dream D I Y website.

So the free themes.

I just think it's much harder to get to that end goal of like,

it looking very professional.

That makes sense.

And I know what you mean actually.

I obviously look at a lot of people's websites as well, and I can definitely

tell when a website is using a free theme from, whether it's Shopify or

somewhere, somewhere else, you, there is a different look about it and it's

fine and it's absolutely functional.

Um, but you are right.

I, you know, you can go on some websites and if it wasn't for that tiny little

Shopify logo in the bottom corner, wherever it is, you wouldn't actually.

Exactly.

And I realize it wasn't custom.

It means that a lot, and you've probably seen this

as well, then it means that, uh, a lot of websites look the same.

So if, and that's what we, you don't really want to look

like someone else's website.

Uh, I just think it's harder to like get your.

Unless you've got a very strong brand, but that's normally not the case when

you're starting out or you are small.

So it just means a lot of websites are looking exactly the same and,

and yeah, we don't want that.

We want our websites to be us, don't we, our brand and really,

really shine, uh, through.

And I just think the, yeah, some of those free ones, it's just

like carbon copies of each other.

I think it's possibly because they give very little

options to yeah, show your brand.

So I look at quite a lot where they have a logo at the top.

But other than that, once you start scrolling, it's, it's

very similar to other websites.

So maybe a, a products page where you're scrolling through a grid of products.

Yeah, yeah.

But it's the text and everything is very, um, generic.

Yeah.

Which I, there's nothing wrong with that, but by the way, but I, I think you're

right that it's harder to kind of, I've definitely been on websites before, and

then if you'd asked me half an hour later what the site was or what the brand was

called, I'd really be racking my brains.

Yeah, because I'd just be trying to think back to that little logo.

Yeah.

The top or whatever it was.

And I think that's where sometimes where we said

at the very beginning, Shopify's easy, Shopify's accessible.

That's where I think sometimes that's a negative because the theme, let's say

you've got the free theme and it's there for you and you just pop in your logo.

Like you said, you pop in those basic bits of information, but

you don't really do much else.

And sometimes there is features there that you can change, but you don't.

It's almost like you just use the basic template that you are given and you

are not then being prompted because no one's telling you to do more.

It's maybe it's almost too easy sometimes and too accessible.

So it can just be like a reminder to go to give your website that

like brand, that life to it, whether that's with copy, images, branding,

content, you know it and just.

Sometimes if, even if you're not told to change something, just go and make

sure you've, you know, had a look at it.

Like the font.

I see lots of websites with the theme font, if you know what I

mean, like the font that comes with the theme and I'm like, why

haven't you changed it to your font?

Like, that's such an easy change.

So yeah, just having.

I always tell people just to look, even though there's tons and tons and tons of

settings, just have a look through them.

And if you understand them and you, you feel comfortable, like

just think about how you can change those things to be more you.

It's got to be you.

That website's got to show your brand.

Thank you.

And font, um, you said then was a great example.

What other, like handful of things, if you wanted to give people,

make this really actionable?

What are the handful of things you would say as well as font?

Yeah.

People could go and change in their settings today just

to help personalize their site a bit.

Font I've been seeing a lot recently, I'm not sure why.

So font definitely go look at the font.

Um, but, and make sure it's, if you don't have a brand font maybe, or your

brand font is, um, not available, you want to use a font that's available

within Shopify, that's easy to read.

That's, that's a Sans Sara font.

So just no floris to it.

Really easy to read and big enough, a lot of websites, their

font is not big enough to read.

Um, you're looking at 17 point, at least to see, to be able to read it.

It seems huge, but it is, it's what we need.

So having a look at that.

Um, colours, definitely colours as well.

Um, and this is probably where some of the free themes, there's less to sort of

change, like you, like you picked up on.

So change what you can, but make sure if you've only got one brand colour,

you, you do need more than one, because otherwise there's not going

to be that differentiation between like your buttons and a background

or a, or a block that you design.

So, um, have a think about that.

Um, what else would I change?

Things like the navigation, how that layout is, um, and your menu making

that like, don't just leave the menu as Shopify give you this really horrible

example menu where it's got like catalogue and about or something on the top.

And obviously that's not a shop menu.

We want a nice, uh, easy to follow menu with what you sell along the

top, um, and your footer menu as well.

I, I, I always see footers, footers are just haven't really been thought about

and your footer is quite important.

A lot of people will go there for that, um, extra bit of information.

Um, what else would I just have a look at in the settings?

Things like your social media, um, links.

Just make sure you've popped them in so that you're showing that on site to make

sure that, you know, you are, you are showing that you are a brand on social

media and you've got this following and, um, sometimes that's missed.

Um, and link into your email newsletter, definitely, like a

lot of people, I think just forget to kind of personalize that bit.

It's got that generic text in.

It's just like, sign up for news.

Just giving that a bit of personality, telling people what

they're going to get from you.

Um, little things like that and little things make a big difference for sure.

That's brilliant.

Thank you.

I'm sure people will be frantically writing all those down.

Those are really, these are really useful.

And I'm with you when, when you said social media, that popped into my head.

Because I've seen a few sites like where you click on the Instagram button

and there's just, it goes nowhere.

Yeah.

Um, or it goes to like the website builders Instagram, sometimes like

Shopify or, or Woo, whoever you're with might put in their social

and then you think, oh gosh, yeah.

Just checking all those, those links.

Checking links is a really good one.

But I think.

That language is quite key as well, that.

That you picked up on as well.

Like it, that generic language that's just there, like Shopify

use something called featured collections as one of their headings.

And that doesn't mean anything to anyone.

Um, it's just what Shopify call it.

So it's like just looking, when you are using those blocks, just say, looking,

okay, well what does it, what's the words and what would I say about, you know,

this featured collection, for example.

Um, that can make a real difference.

I actually found collections really tricky to get my

head around when I started on Shopify.

I think it it, and I think it is because of, and I think it

is because of the language.

Yeah, because it's, it's, it's obviously, it, it's clear now to

me what, what a collection is.

Um, but I think the language around it made it seem like something more,

not as straightforward as it was.

Yeah, and obviously it's just a, it's just a category, I

don't know why they call it collections.

There are some funny things and funny quirks on Shopify for sure, where

it's like some weird terminology that doesn't really make sense to you,

and I think that's why it's so key.

So I look at those bits that they've kind of popped in because

it is a templated website builder.

You've got to go and look, well, how, what are they calling this?

And even add to cart, like I picked up on earlier, like, that's very

American to say, add to cart.

We generally are, you know, English websites generally say add to bag,

add to basket, um, and I just, little, little things like that to

the language that can make a real big difference for your website.

That's so helpful.

Thank you.

So while we're getting all this great advice from you, let's keep, keep going.

So we're getting some fantastic tips here.

Um, so what other best practices would you say there are for Shopify websites?

How can we make sure that the customers coming to our sites having a really

great user experience, whether that's, I mean, we, you covered so much already,

and I know, but is there anything else that you think we should have or do to

just, to just make our websites like you know, pleasant and easy to buy from.

Yeah, I think that's, I think having just that in

the back of your mind when you are, uh, building it or rebuilding it.

Is just so key.

So like always thinking what does the customer want?

It's really hard to do sometimes because you're thinking about you

getting your brand across your products and you know them so well.

But actually it's just always thinking the other way of what does

a customer want and need to see.

I think the biggest thing I see is that, um, messaging needs to be repeated.

So what I mean by that is if you've, most people have a headline above

their logo on the on most pages, so that normally says free delivery over

50 pounds or something like that.

Some sort of key message across the site, or it might be a promotion

you're currently running or last mother's day orders are next week.

That sometimes that message is so important, whether it's a seasonal

promotion or the free delivery, but it's literally just once.

It's just in that headline.

And I think we have, we often think, oh, I can't keep repeating myself.

I can't keep saying, you know, I've got this promotion on cards,

therefore for three or whatever.

But actually, we as consumers, we, we don't see everything going on, do we?

We are not, like, we cannot possibly take in all that content that

you've got on your homepage, your collection page, or product page.

So I think yes, thinking about what does that customer want to see, but

also remembering that they might land straight on your product page.

So something you've mentioned on your homepage, some amazing promotion

or something about you as a brand that's a really key, um, like the

prop proposition statement about you and what makes you different.

Well, they might not have entered on the homepage.

I might have entered on a product page.

So I think it's about having that, uh, brand explanation and who you

are across the whole site, but also remembering you're selling things.

Any sales message, anything, whether it's free delivery, whether it's a promotion,

whether it's that everything comes gift wrap, whether it's that everything's,

um, or your eco-friendly messaging, like all these things that we see on other

sites, like get that across and get it across absolutely everywhere, especially

if it's something that is directly going to help, like an average order value.

Um, like if you run a promotion and you want people to buy that, actually,

if you need people to start buying two products rather than one, you're

trying to up that average order value.

You know, what are you doing?

Where are you mentioning that?

Is it mentioned on the cart?

Is it mentioned on the checkout?

And I, I mean, that's so much easier said than to, but I think if you

just keep that in your mind, um, that you will never say it too much.

Never think like you're overdoing it because we just don't all see everything.

We're only seeing like tiny little snapshots, and we're spending such little

amount of time on each page that you need to repeat those really key message.

That's so helpful.

Thank you.

And I completely agree because especially if you're coming to a

website for, say Google shopping.

Yeah.

Let's say often it will take you directly to the product page.

Yeah.

And then sometimes you have to then go to find the about page

or the delivery policy or whatever it is.

Yes.

To find the information you want.

And I'll be honest, that's it.

Like a, something that I find a bit annoying if I find something, but there's

something I want to know whether it's delivery costs or, or anything really.

Yeah.

And you have to go trolling the site, whereas, and I

think it's a bit of a barrier because more than once you get, I've ended

up getting distracted and I've just.

Yeah.

Less forgotten.

Forgotten.

Yeah.

Yeah.

You know, haven't checked out or whatever.

Whereas I think if everything's on your product page, yeah, I can totally see

how that's really helpful because you want to make it as easy as possible

for people to buy from you, don't you?

And what you really don't want is them to have to go from your

product page somewhere else.

Yeah.

Um, because you've kind of lost their attention a little bit.

Y yeah.

You don't want them to leave the product page for one.

Like, we don't want to be sending them elsewhere.

And also we want to help them so sometimes I think there's this mindset

of, oh, I don't want to sell too much.

I don't want to become salesy.

I don't want to be pushy.

It's like, no, you are helping like, like you've just said, oh, I need to

know if I'm gonna get this by X date.

I need to know how much delivery costs.

I need to know the weight because it's going aboard.

I need to know the length of the necklace because you know, all these little things.

Everybody kind of shops in a different way.

So we need, someone will just see the picture and click out to cart.

They'll always be that customer and they're amazing.

But there's also lots and lots of other customers that need to see

the reviews that need to see the dimensions that need to like learn more.

Um, or, or just learn about your, want to learn about your

brand and know that you are.

There's also that trust element isn't there?

That know that you are a genuine person selling things.

There's a lot of, uh, mistrust still on the internet, so yeah, definitely.

It's kind of like information overload, but honestly, I don't think you

can ever do too much information.

I agree.

I think that you want, I mean, one, one of my, the things I really dislike when I'm

shopping myself is if I go to a products page and there's two lines of text.

Yeah.

And one picture, because I'm like, no.

Well, no.

Because I would much rather buy from the person who gives me all

the stuff that I need to, and that's, that works everywhere.

You know?

That applies on Amazon, Etsy.

People's websites, um.

That is just, uh, e-commerce.

Yeah, I think some big brands can get away with that.

I will say that if you are, you know, looking at other websites and that

includes big brands, which you should definitely use for inspiration, you

might go, well, they don't have to talk about, you know, John Lewis doesn't

have to say who John Lewis is, but it's like, yeah, but they're John Lewis.

They don't have to do that part.

So you will potentially see some larger.

Maybe not one image.

They'll usually have more images because they've got more budget

for that, but with like less copy.

But like they, they might not have to sell it as hard, but yeah.

I think if it, most people now there is a, there's all that detail, there's

that like sales pitch, there's detail, there's images, there's customer

reviews, there's about the brand, there's, there's a lot of stuff.

And that's just your product page.

I mean, there's obviously the rest of the site, but um information.

Yeah, give them the information they need.

And I think you're right.

How some brands can do it differently.

And I think it, also some products.

So for example, I think with clothing, yeah, you don't necessarily need

two paragraphs of a description.

You might want to know the, the dimensions and the fabric and maybe washing.

You.

You need to know what you need to know.

Yeah.

But you don't need a, two paragraphs about this will agree with this type

of shoes or whatever necessarily.

No.

No, but you'd need like a size guide, wouldn't you?

Like you all want to know.

And the thing at the minute I'm seeing with clothing is I, when I see the it cut

images, whether it's photo shoot images or they're using user-generated image content

that customers have sent in, I just want to know what size that person's wearing.

Because that I can then I'm, I really struggle with like the

size guide that's just dimensions.

Like I can't contextualize that.

But if they say the model is five seven, which I am, and wearing a

size 12, I'm like, oh, okay, well she looks, I feel like that will fit me.

Um, so that those, it's, it is a.

There's these generic things that everyone can do.

We've covered delivery is obviously one of them, but then, yeah, it definitely

depends on what you sell, the, the content that will really help and just thinking

of it as help rather than selling.

I think that helps reframe it and reframe what you're doing on, on your website.

Yeah, you're absolutely right.

And that was funnily enough the exact example I was going to give, I can't

remember what website it is, where they often have the same dress say and they'll

have a few different ladies wearing it.

Yeah.

And they'll say Rachel is five foot seven and the size 12.

Yeah.

Tina is five foot and uh, size 16.

And I think it's just so helpful.

So helpful.

And I know that that's not possible for

everyone because that's a lot.

But I think even if you just have one model and you say, this is how

tall they are, because that, for me, it's, I'm five seven as well,

and I know that's not super tall.

No.

But things are short on us, right?

Yeah.

So yeah, we're getting.

I think, yeah, exactly.

And it just helps.

It, it means you're thinking of your customer.

Again, it's putting yourself in your customer's mind of

like, what do I want to know?

What will make me buy this?

Um, some people it will be the fabric content.

Some people, it's obviously, fit is hugely usually with any clothing.

But, um, those details can make such a difference.

And it's interesting that you've noticed it too, because.

Yeah, I think people after listening will go on clothing sites now

and see that happening a lot.

And I think it's all, and it's all good, isn't it?

And there's definitely seems to be, I don't know if this is a, I don't

know if trend is the right, right word, but I don't know whether you are

seeing this out, but I'm definitely seeing more information appearing.

Yeah.

On product pages in general.

Definitely.

Absolutely.

I think it's because, well, like we've just been talking, I think Shopify, for

example, have made that a lot easier to do with Shopify too, like tabs

are now so easy to build and making sure the right, right information.

You don't have to have generic information in your tabs.

You can have product specific information.

Um, it a trend.

It's not a trend in that it's going to go, but it is definitely a trend.

Um, it's the way websites are going, uh, product-based websites because

it's breaking down those big long bits of copy that we used to see

into that manageable, manageable like chunks and also means that if you

want to see something as a customer, you can go and look straight away.

You can go straight to the fit guide.

If you are a repeat customer and you know what size you are, you

don't need to see that, but you might want to see like other things.

So it is, yeah, it's definitely, you will, everyone will go and see it a lot

more now, now that we've spoke about it.

And this question has only just occurred to me.

So it might be that you, you have to think about it or you say,

actually, I can't think of anyone.

But are there any websites that you would say are really good examples

of how to do product pages well?

Whether it's big brands, small brands, and I'm sorry because I've

literally just sprung that on you, but I'm just thinking it might be good.

I've got a list.

I've got a list, don't worry.

Because I, because I'm currently like building a a course, I've been

doing all this research of like giving people inspiration because

I feel like, even though it's all out there on the internet, right?

There's all these websites, small or big, like you say, uh, I think we forget just

to go and look at them and like, not copy.

It's not about copying, it's about taking inspiration and seeing what's working.

So, um, an example I use all the time is Beauty Pie.

Um, their product pages are so good.

They're so, they obviously need, they're selling beauty online.

Like that's one of the hardest things to sell.

You can't smell it, try it.

You know, you can't even return it.

That.

So they are, they have to provide so much information about their products.

Um, that's one I would look at.

And another product page example.

Ooh.

I like, there's a clothing brand called Passenger that I shop with.

Um.

They're like an eco, um, organic cotton sort of brand.

They have really lovely product pages and they do the fit thing,

they do the model with the fit.

And that really helps me.

Um, and I just think they've got a nice layout, but they keep it very on brand.

So there's two examples for you.

That's brilliant.

Thank you.

And as soon as we're done here, that's where I will be going.

Go shopping.

I, yeah, I, I love to see examples of things

done really, really well.

And as you say, it's not about copying, it's just seeing, I think

it's more about features, isn't it?

Yes.

What features have they got or what kind of

information they are sharing?

Because I do know, you know, from my own experience that when you set up,

particularly your first e-commerce web, website is like that bla is

that blank page thing, isn't it?

Yeah.

It's like what do I need to put on my product pages?

I don't know what.

And it, and it's not going to do, even though we've

talked about the theme, there is a template and it's kind of got

the bare bones there for you.

The product page specifically isn't going to have everything you need there.

That's not going to be there.

That's going to be, you are going to have to look what things you can add, what, um,

sales points they call them on Shopify.

So like the spit guide, like the um, reviews, things like that.

And then also the section.

So you are going to have to actually actively do that.

So you are going to get a bit of blank page.

Yeah.

I don't know what to do.

But, but what I found with Shopify 2.0 is that if you see something on a

big website, so there's two big brands I've kind of given you as examples for.

There's a lot of stuff you can now do yourself on Shopify that

you'll have seen on a big website.

And I think that's just, that's the key thing that you, it is doable now.

That's really good.

Thank you.

So I guess if you're listening and you're thinking, oh I don't know where to start.

Have a look at these big brands.

The ones.

Yeah.

That Elle suggested are a good starting point and

then just almost list out like what you'd want on your site.

And it sounds like with Shopify 2.0 at least, it should all be doable.

Pretty much yeah.

Even if it's a bit of tweaking.

Because I do know from Shopify there is sometimes there is the odd app

you need or you might need to tweak.

Yeah, of course.

Something.

But in it sounds like it's all doable one way or another.

Yeah.

I mean, people come to me and say, oh, can we do this?

And it's u the answer is usually yes, we can do anything.

It's just, yeah, like you say, finding that way.

Is it, is it within the theme?

Do you need a paid theme?

Do you need an app?

Do you need a, a custom de development?

Do you need code?

There's always a way we're just going to, what I tend to do is find the

easiest, cheapest way that somebody can then maintain it themselves as well.

So it's got to be easy for you to like update if it's an app.

It's got to be easy for you to use.

Um, there's always a way to do things.

So I think take, going onto those sites, taking that inspiration,

seeing what fits with your brand, what do you need, what are the other

clothing brands doing right now?

Um, or the other beauty brands.

Whatever you sell, um, is a really beneficial exercise.

Thank you.

And I, I think you're right and I, we haven't even touched on the fact

that you can do pretty much anything with on Shopify with code, but I

think we will leave that there.

Just, just know that you can, but I think for 99% of us, that probably

it's, I don't think might be needed.

Yeah.

Abso, I agree.

I don't, I.

I think people think they need code because we hear about code, websites code,

but Shopify is built to may kind of not.

You don't really need to do that, but you can.

If there's something you need to, um, hard code in, you will be able to do that.

You probably want to get a professional to do that, but, um, most apps and themes

are doing a lot of the work for you now.

That's great.

Thank you.

And then let's, um, few more questions before we finish up.

What, uh, what would be good to know is especially if you have Shopify probably

2.0, what are some things you can do to sort of elevate your websites?

We've spoken about a lot about some of the basic things, but what are things we could

do, and let's say that we're on Shopify and you know, lovely site, all on brand.

Are there anything, is there anything additional we can do

now to just bring it up a level?

I think, um, I'm going to focus on the product

pages again because that's gem.

That and collection pages, normally people's home pages are fairly decent,

like you said, if they're at that level of like, they've kind of applied their brand

and they've got that good look and feel.

I think it's then like enhancing things.

So where you might have, uh, four to five lovely product images,

which are a mix of photo, uh, studio based shots, like blank product

shots and then, uh, lifestyle shots.

That's when you might go, I.

I need people wearing clothes or using, um, the, the products.

So I think like it's looking at things like that where you can go, oh, I've done

this well, but how can I make it better?

So images is a big one because most sites I see don't have images of,

they have lots of professional images.

Perhaps they're at that stage, but they don't have the sort of user

generated content, the real life image.

And they can be so beneficial.

Um, because seeing any product in real life really, really helps.

Um, and things like reviews as well.

Okay.

Most, if we're talking about most sites that I've got to that level of, um, good,

a good website, it's still worth looking at reviews and how you're using them on

the product page and how easy they are for people to see how they're curated,

whether they've got images supplied.

Um, what else would I do to elevate.

Ooh, that's a tricky one.

Um, it would be things like looking at the content.

What I find is even if a website has, is doing really well, they're, you know,

they've, they've got a beautiful website.

They're selling really well.

What it is, normally the case is that the content still isn't

screaming their brand, to be honest.

They might have a really great product that is selling really well and they've

got this engaged community to sell to.

But often they're kind of forgetting that some people will hit the site as a total

newbie and they're not really getting across all the benefits of the brands.

Um, the things they do that are great, the things about them that are great and I,

I guess that's just because we don't like to sort of sing about ourselves so much.

So.

Usually adding in, you know, founder stories.

A lot of my clients don't talk about themselves.

It's not that they don't want to necessarily, it's kind of

like they don't think they need to, but, and you don't need to.

But having that like connect human connection.

And I think that's the same with, you know, having those

images from customers and things.

It's ha it's bringing that human connection onto the site.

Um, And of course you've always got to think about like,

because great customer service.

I'm big advocate for great customer service.

And that does start on something like your product page.

Like what information are you giving them, and then what service are you

providing if they need help before they order, like with sizing, um, or

help with a, if you sell gifts, like do, are you providing like a gift?

Um, like a service to help them pick the right gift and have the gift sent

to someone, gift notes, all this stuff.

So I think it's like those little things that customer service side

can make a huge difference as well.

That's really helpful.

Thank you.

And I hadn't thought about that, that the customer service kind of starts

before someone even buys from you.

Definitely.

That's really, and I guess it even starts just by having a, a lot of

the information people need, well, all the information people need on the page, even.

I guess that's also a really good starting point because that probably even

reduces some of that customer service.

Absolutely.

Like it's almost like.

The, if you look on sites now, you'll find that like they have

less FAQ pages than they used to.

So N F AQ page used to be like a bit of a must.

I find that less and less sites have them now because they're kind

of giving you all that, or access to all that on like a product page.

And there'll be things in the footer of course, as well, because that's

where we provide that information.

But even just building that trust on your website is kind of a,

it's not like a tangible thing.

I, you know, it's a really hard one to pin down what that is specifically.

Um, that's that along with the customer service and being that friendly, you

know, a person available to help, that's difficult to do, but that can

really, that's that elevation, I think.

That's really helpful.

Thank you.

So I have one final question before we finish Elle.

I think we could talk about this for a long time actually.

Yeah.

My final question is, what is your number one piece of advice having

a great e-commerce web e-commerce website?

One piece of, oh my goodness.

This is the thing I really just, I really struggle with because I'm

like, I just want to say everything.

Uh, one piece of advice.

I think it's, um, I think it's applying your brand and you to it, because I think

that's what I've seen where we are talking about small startup or growing small

businesses that have maybe DIY on Shopify.

I think it's just ensuring that you have applied your brand and you to

that website that it is, it looks less templated and more you and your brand.

It's not just font and colour, obviously we've picked up on

those, but it is more than that.

Um, and obviously looking at it from the customer's perspective and looking

at it with fresh eyes is almost impossible, but really just try and, um,

do that or get someone else to do it.

If you can't, if you're like, I just, I've gone blind to it.

Get someone, you know, just to look at it and give you that feedback.

Don't, like, don't, don't be upset by it because our website is not static.

You have to continually work on it.

You cannot just build a website and leave it unfortunately.

It's got to have those continual updates and optimizations.

So.

To get that feedback if you can, or feedback from customers, whoever

you've got, and then, and then apply those changes and, and yeah, bringing

that brand out, I think super.

That's my one thing.

That was like three things.

Oh, that was really helpful.

Thank you.

I, I think that was a hard question because it sounds

like there's not just one.

No.

Thing you need to do.

I think that's the point.

It's not one thing.

Do this and you've got a successful, you know, e-commerce website.

Obviously the product matters.

You know, we, we've not even talked about that because that's

not what I generally deal in.

But, um, it's, so I think if I just think of the website, it's so many little things

all added up that create this experience.

But I think also thinking like that does make it more manageable,

hopefully for people so that they can say, well, I'm going to.

I haven't got reviews yet.

I'm just going to focus on, I'm going to add reviews.

I'm going to start asking for reviews.

That's one thing done.

And then move to the next because you just can't tackle the

whole thing at once sometimes.

That's so helpful.

Thank you so much, Elle.

That's okay.

Thank you so much for listening right

to the end of this episode.

Do remember that you can get the full back catalogue and lots of free resources

on my website, vicki weinberg.com.

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