From the Dojo to the Bedside: How Martial Arts is Revolutionizing Dementia Care with Ben Couch - Episode #39

Guest: Ben Couch, Founder of ElumenEd and Eastern Ergonomics

Host: Dr. Michael Passmore, Clinical Associate Professor, Department of Psychiatry, University of British Columbia

Episode Length: ~1 hour

Episode Summary

In this fascinating conversation, martial artist and healthcare educator Ben Couch shares how 40+ years of martial arts training is transforming dementia care and caregiver safety. Ben discusses his innovative Eastern Ergonomics program, which applies ancient martial arts principles—balance, efficiency, breath, and mindful presence—to patient transfers and caregiving. He also opens up about his personal journey after his mother's Alzheimer's diagnosis and how it deepened his understanding of care.

Key Topics Discussed

Ben's Background

1. 40+ years in martial arts (black belts in 8 disciplines, 7th degree in karate)
2. 20+ years as National Director of Training at Watermark Retirement Communities
3. Founded ElumenEd to bring Eastern Ergonomics to healthcare facilities nationwide
4. Personal experience with mother's Alzheimer's diagnosis in 2022

The Problem with Traditional Ergonomics Training

1. Patient transfers have been the #1 cause of healthcare worker injuries for decades
2. Traditional training focuses on "dots" without connecting the transitional movements
3. Annual compliance training often fails to create meaningful change
4. Injuries cost $40,000-$120,000 per nurse to replace

Martial Arts Principles Applied to Caregiving

Mental Preparation:

1. Posture and breathing as foundation for presence and safety
2. Taking a pause before each transfer to be fully present
3. "New heart every day" mindset to avoid autopilot mode
4. Connection between body posture and mental state

Physical Techniques:

1. Moving from center of gravity rather than arm strength
2. "Hands always push" principle (using triceps/lats instead of biceps/deltoids)
3. Triangulation of balance—avoiding weak points in stance
4. Softness, flow, and minimal effort from Tai Chi and Japanese Jujitsu
5. Principle-based rather than position-based training

Communication and Dignity

1. Shifting from doing something "to" someone → "for" someone → "with" someone
2. The person receiving care is the teacher, guiding the caregiver
3. Maintaining presence and listening, even with advanced dementia
4. Treating every transfer as a mutual, collaborative experience

Personal Insights

1. Ben's mother's musical awakening after moving to exceptional memory care
2. The importance of not accepting that "life is over" after an Alzheimer's diagnosis
3. How martial arts practice helped Ben manage depression
4. The parallel between martial arts training and caregiving excellence

Vision for the Future

1. Goal: Remove transfer injuries from the #1 spot for the first time ever
2. Reduce turnover and burnout among caregivers
3. Free up budget resources for meaningful resident programs
4. Challenge healthcare assumptions about what's possible
5. Bring more presence and continuous improvement to all aspects of care

Key Quotes

"Everybody has a plan until you get punched in the face." — Mike Tyson (referenced by Ben about his mother's diagnosis)

"In the beginner's mind, there are endless possibilities. In the expert's mind, there are very few." — Shunryu Suzuki

"You're not ever gonna be good, but you're gonna be better." — Ben on continuous improvement

"The person who we are assisting...is the one who should be teaching us. They teach us their movement and then we respond to that."

"It's not over when you get this diagnosis...do we act that way?"

Resources Mentioned

1. ElumenEd — Ben's company offering Eastern Ergonomics training
2. Eastern Ergonomics — Ben's innovative caregiver training program
3. Book: I Heard There Was a Secret Chord by Daniel Levitin (on music and brain health)

Who Should Listen

1. Nurses, CNAs, and direct care staff
2. Healthcare administrators and risk managers
3. Dementia care professionals
4. Physical therapists and occupational therapists
5. Family caregivers
6. Anyone interested in innovative approaches to healthcare and injury prevention

Connect with Ben Couch

https://easternergonomics.com/

https://www.youtube.com/@elumenEd

Get Ben's free eBook that covers some fundamentals of the Eastern Ergonomics program. You can also book a time to talk about the benefits of bringing Eastern Ergonomics to your facility.

Subscribe & Share

If you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe to the Neurostimulation Podcast and share it with colleagues in healthcare, caregiving, or anyone interested in innovative approaches to dementia care.

Disclaimer: This podcast is for educational purposes only and is not intended as medical advice or a substitute for professional medical guidance.

Welcome to the Neurostimulation Podcast.

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I'm Michael Passmore, clinical associate

professor in the department of Psychiatry

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at the University of British Columbia.

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In Vancouver, Canada, the

Neurostimulation Podcast is all about

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exploring the fascinating world of

neuroscience, clinical neurostimulation,

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interventional mental health, ketamine

assisted psychotherapy, various

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approaches to helping to improve

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to improve health and wellness.

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improve health and wellbeing.

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industry that are helping to develop these

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to improve health and wellbeing.

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This podcast is separate from my clinical

and academic roles, and as part of my

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personal effort to bring neuroscience

education to the general public.

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Okay, so I would like to emphasize

that the information shared in

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this podcast is for educational

purposes only, and it's not intended

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as medical advice or a substitute

for professional medical guidance.

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Today I had a great

discussion with Ben Couch.

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Ben is a coach, a teacher,

an entrepreneur, and he has a

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fascinating story about bringing two

seemingly disparate worlds together.

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That is his experience and passion

in the martial arts with helping

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to provide the best care possible

for individuals who need extra help

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in care facilities, for instance.

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Clients, patients, residents suffering

from various forms of dementia like

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Alzheimer's disease or other types of

conditions that require them to live in

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facilities where they need the extra help

that caregivers are providing for them.

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And so I think you're gonna really

appreciate this conversation because

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Ben brings a real heart for care.

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And innovation to help to improve the

lives of not only the people that are

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being cared for, but also the caregivers

and the entire body of, not only he's

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helping not only improve the lives of

the people being cared for, but also the

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caregivers and the entire institutional.

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Not only the people being cared for,

but the caregivers and the entire

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institutional network, and he's just

got a really positive and innovative

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vision that I think will be really

interesting for you to hear about.

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So please stay tuned.

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Speaker: Welcome back to the

Neurostimulation podcast.

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Today I'm joined by someone who

brings together two worlds that

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rarely speak to each other,

martial arts and modern healthcare.

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Ben Couch is a martial artist, a

healthcare educator, and a dementia

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specialist who has spent more than

40 years studying how the body

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moves and how it gets injured.

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After directing national training

efforts for watermark retirement

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communities for over two decades.

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Ben recognized something that most

healthcare systems were missing.

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Traditional ergonomics training

wasn't protecting caregivers

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or patients nearly enough.

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Drawing on black belts in eight martial

arts disciplines can't believe that,

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including a seventh degree black

belt In karate, Ben developed Eastern

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Ergonomics, a program that applies

martial arts principles like balance,

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efficiency and structure to patient

transfers to enhanced dementia care

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today through his company, ElumenEd

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Hopefully I'm pronouncing that correctly.

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You are.

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ElumenEd and we'll get the spelling

and we'll put all the info on

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Ben's company in the show notes.

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Ben's training nurses, CNAs and

dementia professionals across North

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America helping to reduce injuries,

burnout and apprehension, fear at

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the bedside, while improving dignity

and safety for clients and patients.

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So I'm looking forward

to this conversation.

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It's gonna be a fascinating talk

about movement, caregiving, injury

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prevention, and bringing in what

ancient wisdom can still teach modern

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medicine and approaches to healthcare.

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Ben, welcome to the show.

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Really happy that you're here.

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Ben: Thank you so much.

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Really appreciate it, Mike.

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Mike: Super.

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Yeah.

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Well, maybe you can start by, introducing

yourself, telling us a bit about

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your background, just so that viewers

and listeners can get to know you.

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Ben: so like you said, I've, been doing

martial arts for over 40 years, and

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that was the, the best birthday present

I ever got when I was eight years old.

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I had been begging, and in those

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There wasn't a place on every corner.

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And, my parents finally conceded and,

40 plus years later I'm still going.

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like you said, I've got a

really broad experience.

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after all those years, I've studied a

lot of different arts and I've been very

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lucky in my teachers, even in, even, even

at the, the, the ranks I've gotten, I've,

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I've worked with some really world-class

individuals who have studied the body in

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systems that are hundreds of years old.

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And one of the things that.

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I look at, is when, when we look

at ergonomics and body mechanics,

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this was literally life and death.

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this was something that they studied

with the intensity of knowing that if

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they were wrong, there was no forgiving.

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That in terms of their

own, their own lifespan.

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So that we, we see in the old arts a

really fascinating focus on that, a

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scientific approach to it that, we, we,

we might not expect from, just watching

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the movies about those times, there's a

real, a real need, a very pressing need,

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more so than in a lab or in a study.

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their, their study was their lives.

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So, I've, I've gotten to work as I've

progressed and gotten to meet more people.

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I've gotten to work in older and older

systems that have studied the body in ways

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that just aren't really seen very often.

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and just like a, a

professional athlete, in.

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Power lifting or running or basketball.

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The, the study of the movement on

a very fine level is just something

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that, for whatever reason, I'm

a very technical martial artist.

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I've been interested in how the body

works and how the body moves and how

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the mind moves the body, and how our

inborn instincts, are, are often not

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the, the best movements that we can make.

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the things that we go to

reflexively out of instinct, much

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like fight, flight, or freeze.

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It protects the species, but it

doesn't protect necessarily you,

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it's, it's, it's right enough

times that the species survives.

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But the individual, through a very

dedicated study of what actually is

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the most efficient way to do things,

gets a, gets a much more targeted

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approach to their own safety.

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so.

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Oddly enough, in my own

background, I actually, in

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2001 was teaching martial arts.

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And one of my students was the

person who became the CEO of

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Watermark retirement communities.

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And they had a, they had kind

of a mantra of find the right

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person and then create the job.

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so the, the person I was working with,

David Barnes, he was looking for a

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trainer and they had just finished a

study showing how much turnover they

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had, and they decided, we, we need

a, we need a solid training program.

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I was finishing up my

master's degree in literature.

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He knew I was a writer and

he'd seen me teach and he

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said, why don't you interview?

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And, that went from 2001 until, I became

a, the, the National Director of training.

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And ultimately I stayed there

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broke off to form Illumined.

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And, just had a, had

an amazing experience.

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And I think I, because I was not

an industry professional, The,

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the, the experience that I had was

I sat down and, David brought in

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the national directors one by one

and said, teach him the business.

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here's the director of nursing, okay.

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Tell him how to teach

everybody, including yourself.

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So I got to learn every position in

the company from the national directors

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over the course of about a year.

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and it was a really amazing experience.

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I feel really just so, so lucky to have

had that experience with that company.

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And, then in 2022, my own mother was

diagnosed with Alzheimer's disease

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and, of, of course a crushing blow.

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And it was a moment where I realized

I knew the technical aspects of it

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and I knew how to deal with it as

a professional, but personally, it

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was a completely new experience.

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it was, know all the, I know all

the moves, it's, it's like martial

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arts, you know, all the moves.

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And then, Mike Tyson has the

famous quote, everybody has a plan

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until you get punched in the face.

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Mm-hmm.

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And that was my punch in the face, and,

and I realized there was a lot to learn

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on a much more emotional, psychological,

level that, and I really, as much as I

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knew, I really botched it a few times,

and it was a hard learning process.

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So that's a, that's, that's a little

bit of my background in a nutshell.

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Speaker: Yeah, thanks for, thanks

for explaining all of that.

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I'm sorry to hear about your mom.

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I mean, these personal experiences

are devastating, as you say, but

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on the other hand, hopefully we

can take personal challenges and,

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and bring that into improving, the

lives of others in, in some way.

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there's some solace there, hopefully.

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But, yeah, so I mean, it's fascinating

that, connection between the, the ancient

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wisdom of movement and, and the specific

focus in on, the technicalities of, of

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purposeful movement that martial arts

teaches us and how we can, again, bring

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that ancient wisdom into helping, with,

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Providing care and for, for

reducing injuries and caregivers

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and for making the care, better for

those who are receiving the care.

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So I was just curious, what, what would

you say would be some of the important

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points that you found after, the 20 years

of your experience there, as you were

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describing in terms of maybe the gaps

that standard ergonomics programs or, or

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the, the, the, the traditional approach to

caregiving, was lacking in that maybe the

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martial arts wisdom was able to sort of

supplement or improve along those lines?

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Ben: I think the first aspect of

it to, to, to kind of do a deep

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dive for me is the mental aspect

of it at the corporate level.

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Mm-hmm.

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it's been the number one cause of injury,

specifically transferring patients.

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So helping 'em stand up or

sit down or move from, a.

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Shared a toilet or, helping people

move who have a hard time moving,

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been the number one cause of injury

for healthcare workers since,

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well before I was in the industry.

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And the, the thing is we've added gadgets.

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we've added machinations, there's

hoyer lifts and all these things

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that, they're, they're great.

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I'm not knocking 'em.

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But, in reality, when you talk to a, a,

an actual caregiver instead of the, the

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risk manager who bought it, you talk to

them and you say, well, yeah, but it's

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on the other floor and I've gotta get

through all these residents in an hour.

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or so and so called in sick today.

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Or the person who was trained on it,

they're, they're not here anymore.

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and so, despite all that, I think we,

we've relied on that in, in a, in a

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emerging tech world to, to save us.

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And the reality is.

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It's, a lot of it is not

happening in some places.

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It is probably as we get more,

toward the skilled nursing

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and the hospital environments.

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But, it, it's still number one.

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And you ask yourself, have,

have we just accepted this?

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have we just accepted

that that's the way it is?

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Because what I saw is we'd, we'd have

our annual required in services, and

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this is sort of across the board.

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This is something I wanna just

eradicate across the board.

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Everyone comes in because we all

just accept that this is what it is.

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For an hour a month, you are

gonna be bored sitting in a room,

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getting nothing out of it except

a check mark from the state.

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And, I, I think.

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What I saw was, there's just this

acceptance of it in the industry

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that, we're gonna do this training.

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And, that's a big part

of my background to me.

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If you don't change something,

then you didn't train.

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Mm-hmm.

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So how many hours and dollars are we

throwing away every year in terms of that?

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I mean, that's just, that's just a focus

mindset on, you go to, you go to martial

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arts class, you do the same thing for 15

years, and you're not progressing well.

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Why?

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isn't the teacher, is

it your own attitude?

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Is it, you're not often enough.

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And a, a lot of the time

it's our own effort.

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And I think that's the, the, the

trend across a lot of, I'm not

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knocking anyone, it's just what

we fall into kind of naturally.

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So that's a, that's a, that's, that's

my kind of rant on the subject.

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I think.

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The first thing is, as a martial

arts teacher and as a, as a

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trainer, I bring the same idea.

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We have to change something.

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If we're gonna sit down and spend

that time and money, then something

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has to be different at the end.

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And we're in this space where

nothing is different at the end.

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physically, the actual physics

of it, I think we have,

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and, and I'm drawing with a broad

brush here, but I think a lot of

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movement in the West is really

geared toward what I call playing,

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connect the dots without any lines.

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we talk about would, I mean, you can

look up the National Institutes of Health

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guidelines for training, but your hands

on the gate belt bring the person to you.

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Well, how, we, we talk about those dots,

but we don't talk about how we connect

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them with those transitional movements.

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Speaker: You

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Ben: know, how do I actually do that?

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Which muscles do I activate?

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and it's just something that.

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We don't dig into the actual body.

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We have these, very blanket

standard and, again, you're doing

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a national training program.

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It has to be pretty standardized.

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But, we don't really go beyond,

keep it close to your center or

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lift with your legs, use the gate.

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Well, when I bring the person

to me, how do I do that?

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Speaker: Mm-hmm.

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Ben: That's a really simple example.

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When, when someone's in a chair

and I'm lifting them to a standing

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position, our bodies want to

use our biceps and our deltoids.

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that goes back to that instinctual

behavior works for the species.

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But in individual practice,

those are really weak muscles.

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Speaker: Mm-hmm.

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Ben: And if we look at that carefully,

we can see, well, why are we

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getting all the shoulder injuries?

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Why are we getting all

the lower back injuries?

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It's all tied to that.

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That, that's one of the

main factors for that.

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So if we look at it and we say, martial

arts principle hands always push.

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Well, even when they come back

to you, they still push and our

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brains go, well, how can that be?

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Well, it's the same movement that,

if you're doing in the weight

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room, you're doing a a bicep curl.

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You can, you can go so far.

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If you're doing a bench press,

you can go a lot farther.

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Okay.

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'cause we're activating different muscles.

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So if I'm doing a rowing motion where

I'm pushing back with my elbows,

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instead of trying to curl them to me,

suddenly I've activated my triceps,

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my laps, my trapezius muscles.

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Th those are those things that

in that transition moment, people

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never get hurt when they put

their hands on the gate belt.

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They don't get hurt when the

person's up to them, they

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get hurt when they're moving.

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Speaker: Mm-hmm.

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Ben: That's one of the things martial

arts really excels at, because,

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yeah, the punchline is important,

but how the heck do I get there?

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When I've got someone who really

doesn't want me to, I've, I've really

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gotta hone my actual transition

movements to make things work.

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one teacher I worked with said, I

can, I can teach you all the throws,

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the locks in a year, teach you

how to get those to work, teaching

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you how to get to that end point.

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that transition movement will

take me 10 years to teach you.

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and that's what I think

we've lost a lot in the west.

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Speaker: Hmm.

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Oh yeah, that's, it's super interesting.

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It makes me think about, a

coaching specialist, Nick

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Winkleman, I think is the name.

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And, he uses, he, he kind of has

this, this idea about using a lot of

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visualization around, coaching athletes

to imagine that they're, for example, to,

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to, if someone's getting ready to leap,

just imagine that they're actually a, a

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spring and just picturing themselves as

a spring jumping or for runners, like the

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first few steps, you're, you're, you're,

I don't know, shooting out of a cannon and

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then for the next few steps of the sprint.

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And then you're, imagine that

you're running up a steep hill.

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So just getting sort of a real sense

of a visualization into, I wonder if

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that could be part of the, the answer

in terms of the, the lines that are

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between the dots that you're helping

to coach these caregivers into.

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getting into the habit of, of

performing, movements in a safer way.

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Ben: I, I, I think so.

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I think the mindset is really

critical when I start with caregivers.

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again, you go to every, every

training ever, and it's, it starts

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with hands on the gate belt.

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I, I start, okay, you're about

to walk in the room and how is

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your mind, how is your posture?

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if your posture is lousy, you're

already starting with a collapsing

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building, before you ever do

anything, how is your posture?

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And that's, again, something

that I just don't see addressed.

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And I think, certainly I've,

I've gotten, yelled at for years.

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get your chin up, get your,

get your back straight.

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Because as soon as those are

compromised, you are compromised.

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Your, your whole balance

system is, is done.

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So I think that visualization

at the beginning is important.

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and.

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Things like commitment

and to, to the technique.

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in, in the sword world, they will say,

as soon as the, as soon as the sword

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leaves the scabbard, or the sa in

Japanese, the, the fight is complete.

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because from that point on, your,

your mind is on the other side of it.

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you have just committed fully, and I, I,

not to get too esoteric with it, but just

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having the right mindset, going in the

right posture, the right idea that, that,

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and this is something that is desperately

lacking, I think, in healthcare.

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Take a second.

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Mm-hmm.

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be aware of what you're about to do.

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Don't let it be the same, the same.

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I've done this 50 times today because

the 51st is where you get injured.

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it's like, you're most likely to have

an accident close to home where you're,

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where you're unaware, you're used to it.

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And.

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I, I think that mental awareness that

comes from the idea that, before I

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walk in the room, I am transferring the

person, because it has to start here.

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So, yeah.

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Absolutely.

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Speaker: Yeah.

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That's interesting.

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What are some, common strategies

then in terms of just, preparing

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caregivers, helping them to get

into the right, mindset, I suppose?

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Is there a, yeah, can, can you give us

some examples or just walk us through some

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of the principles that you, tend to teach

when you're coaching, that type of thing?

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Ben: Absolutely.

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so posture is actually the first thing.

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so one of the pieces that I've, I've

put together just kind of in my own

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head, over the years because, just,

personally I've struggled a lot.

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I've had a lot of depression

in my life, pretty serious.

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And one of the things I started to

notice over the years is it never.

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Happened when I was at the dojo.

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It never happened.

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After I left, I was always happy.

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And, it started to dawn on me that we

always try to fix our minds, and one of

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the ways to do that is to fix our bodies.

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it goes both ways.

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Mm-hmm.

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So I tell people, it's not just for

your physical body, you, you fix your

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posture and your brain gets right, too.

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That's one of the first things

that you can do when you go in.

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that little pause, take a pause, look

at your posture, how are you doing?

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go into it with that attitude.

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I tell people, it's, it's real hard to be

in a terrible mood or to lack confidence

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when you just fix your posture, because

that sends your brain a different signal.

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kinda like having a smile

on when you don't feel good.

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You're, you're trying to hot wire

your brain into, following your body.

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Mm-hmm.

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The next thing I I look at

in preparation is breathing.

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how are we, how are we setting up our

body with the correct breathing, to

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activate the core muscles to, and again,

if we're breathing right, that feeds

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into our posture, it feeds into our

attitude and our bodies, and carries

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through into the actual transfer.

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Again, just like a, just like

a weightlifter or any athlete

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has to have their breathing

right to perform at their peak.

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So those are, those are two of the

pieces that I look at front and center.

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I can, the, the problem to me with

the mental concept and telling people,

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okay, focus on this, and it, it's

easy to logically comprehend things.

370

it's easy to, I, I can understand

a lot of things I can't do, I'm,

371

maybe I can understand how Carl

Lewis is so fast on the sprints.

372

I can't do that.

373

but I can think about it a lot.

374

however, if I want to go out and sprint, I

need to again, fix my body, fix my brain.

375

And one of the best ways to do that

is actually getting into the body.

376

I can't, I can't be thinking

about what somebody else is doing.

377

I can't be thinking about

balancing my checkbook.

378

I, I have to be very present in my body.

379

So to me, the posture and the breathing,

you go through meditative traditions.

380

That's one of the first things.

381

You address and virtually any

meditation in the world, your

382

posture and your breathing.

383

And that's, I've also, practiced

in for, over 20 years now.

384

And that's, in some schools,

that's virtually all of it.

385

Fix your posture, fix your

breathing, and sit there.

386

and there's something that comes from

that, that to me is a little bit,

387

I, I don't mean like metaphysically

necessarily, but it's, it's deeper than

388

something that you can think about.

389

And to me, just, I don't, when I,

when I train, I don't have people

390

do meditation or anything like that,

but just fixing the posture and the

391

breathing to me is the perfect intro.

392

And then.

393

Actually getting them to just

stand still for a minute.

394

I mean, it's a struggle for me.

395

I, I, I'm always going, so every day

when I sit down and meditate, the

396

first little bit is like dragging

myself to the cushion in my own head.

397

I'm sitting there, but I'm not there.

398

so getting people to just stop and pause,

fix that posture, fix that breathing,

399

and mentally say, just say to yourself,

I'm about to do a transfer instead of

400

just going in, thinking about what you're

cooking your kids for dinner tonight.

401

And, just being there is, to

me, and posture and breath is

402

the way to get there, I think.

403

Speaker: Yeah, that's,

it's so fascinating.

404

I have a, a meditation practice as well.

405

I've been doing the ANA for many years

and the zen kind of, approach also.

406

And it's, it makes me think of the idea

of, of encouraging people to have a

407

simple mantra in that moment of the, the

preparation only takes, a few seconds.

408

And the the other thing it makes me think,

'cause I I, work, do a lot of, late life

409

mental health and I, I go to, seniors

care facilities multiple times, weekly.

410

And it makes me also think that

when a caregiver takes that few

411

seconds to have the mindset give

themselves a bit of a mantra and.

412

Attend to their, to their presence and,

and the breath and the posture that

413

it, there's probably an effect on the

client, the patient as well, right?

414

I mean, there's this sort of, oh,

415

Ben: yes.

416

Speaker: Body language, that there's

a lot of stuff that gets communicated

417

non-verbally and unconsciously

that probably factors into the

418

difficulties that may arise as a

result of that person with dementia.

419

perhaps being less afraid or feeling

as though they're being less rushed

420

or any of those kinds of things.

421

Ben: Yes, absolutely.

422

That's one of the big fears, that

people express when they move

423

in to a retirement community.

424

As skilled nurse, will I be dropped?

425

so it's not just the caregivers

who are worrying about that.

426

That's, the people and, and that,

that's another thing I like to emphasize

427

is that, this is not lifting a box.

428

It's, it's a completely different

thing and it requires your attention.

429

Not just for your own physical

presence, but for the person that

430

you're doing this for, they need to

know that you are focused on them.

431

And it, it, it definitely

changes the, the tenor of things.

432

when, when we stop treating it like I'm

making widgets and we start treating

433

it like, I'm intervening to improve

the quality of a human being's life.

434

Mm-hmm.

435

And it, it's, I.

436

It, it's an unfortunate truth about

humans that we get used to something

437

and then we stop paying attention to it.

438

And, if, if we want, I, I,

I think most people go into

439

healthcare with great intentions.

440

I think they like to help people.

441

and when we go into it with that

presence, then that's a really

442

powerful thing that the residents,

I, I believe, truly respond to.

443

but maintaining that, I think sometimes

the newest people, who are, who are.

444

Forced to pay the most attention if they

wanna be successful, are in some ways the

445

best, not the best caregivers, but the

best at creating that bond with people.

446

there's a, a quote I won't get quite

right, but, it's from Shun Ru Suzuki,

447

who was a Zen teacher who says, in

the beginner's mind, there are endless

448

possibilities in the expert's mind.

449

There are very few.

450

Speaker: Hmm.

451

Ben: because the expert knows the

answers and that, that limits us.

452

And I think, when, when you have a

caregiver going in with that fresh

453

attitude, the, the question is how can

we be, one of the, the mottos of one

454

of the really old schools that I've

worked with is New Heart every day.

455

Mm-hmm.

456

How do we create a new heart

every day for what we do?

457

And certainly none of us has ever.

458

A hundred percent successful at that.

459

But it's something I try to keep out

in front of myself, and, to whatever

460

extent I can pass on to other people.

461

Speaker: Fantastic.

462

Yeah, I mean that by itself is, would

be an ideal mantra, even just to,

463

going into a transfer and, or just

anything that a caregiver is doing

464

from hour to hour and day to day.

465

Yeah, it's, that's, that's fantastic.

466

because I think part of it is that,

and it strikes me that, there's a

467

disruptive, in a way, in a positive

way, a disruptive, component.

468

It strikes me that bringing, bringing

two seemingly disparate worlds

469

together, that being martial arts and,

caregiving for folks in a retirement

470

home, it's not the sort of thing

that you think typically would go

471

hand in hand, but it certainly does.

472

No pun intended.

473

but, so maybe you know that, I'm just

curious in your experience, if, if the,

474

the, the extent to which that those

two worlds are not typically associated

475

together in people's minds when they,

when they see, oh yeah, these do really

476

go together well, and that there's a,

a disruptive kind of approach that kind

477

of shakes people out of their usual

habits and, and routines as you're

478

saying, which has become, as, as in

most bureaucracies, you get this kind

479

of capture and, and, and, and sort of

rigidity that's difficult to, to shake

480

to, to shake apart and to improve on.

481

yeah.

482

Have you found that, that bringing those

martial arts ideas is something that

483

catches people's attention and helps to

disrupt their unhealthy habits and, and

484

all of that kind of, the legacy kind

of bureaucracy that gets in the way?

485

Ben: That's, yeah, that's a

really interesting question.

486

It's been, I, so when I had my

lightning bolt moment, and said.

487

Whoa, I've, I've got something

that other people aren't doing.

488

I've got something that really can help.

489

I've, I asked myself is, are

people gonna hear this and

490

think, this is, this is wacko.

491

this is, what we're doing, martial arts

to train, and I've been very pleasantly

492

surprised that people are fascinated.

493

I've, I've mentioned this to, I mean,

I've been networking for, six or

494

eight months on this now, and people

have been really genuinely excited.

495

'cause I think in, in at least, and, and.

496

One of the things I've found is, and

not surprisingly, smaller companies

497

are more willing to take the jump,

more willing to be innovative.

498

And I mean, it doesn't hurt

that it's easier to get in and,

499

just meet very easily with a

local executive director or CEO.

500

but even the larger groups that

I've talked with, have, they've,

501

one of, one of the issues I'm

running into is this is totally new.

502

I, I thought there must be other

people doing something like this.

503

And the closest I've found is

someone in Japan who's doing

504

a, a slightly similar thing.

505

so, you go to a larger place and,

they, they sense it, they sense

506

there's something here, but, whereas

the 10 years of research, and so

507

that's been something that, I found.

508

The, the companies that are smaller

that are looking to disrupt,

509

the industry themselves mm-hmm.

510

Are really intrigued by this.

511

I think the larger, more

national companies will be, as

512

the, as, as the buzz raises.

513

But I've, I've been very interested to see

that, even, even the folks who I've talked

514

to who are like national risk managers

have said, let's keep talking about this.

515

So I think there is that sense of

shakeup when someone comes with

516

something truly different and says,

it doesn't have to be like this.

517

not like anyone has consciously said,

well, this is just the way it is.

518

But I think bringing that to the table

lets them see that's what they did.

519

It lets them see like, wait, there's

something, there's something else there.

520

There's something that could maybe

disrupt, and this is a trend that

521

everyone would like to disrupt.

522

'cause these injuries

are remarkably expensive.

523

replace a nurse.

524

The, the stats I've found are,

between 40 and $120,000 to replace a

525

nurse from, from one single injury.

526

And it's, just kind of a budget

line item we've come to expect.

527

And for someone to say we, we

don't necessarily have to do that.

528

There is, there are other ways of

looking at this problem has been of,

529

something that's been really exciting

to me to see people interested in.

530

so yeah, it's, it's been a, it's been a

fascinating set of conversations I've had.

531

and I, I think the, the potential is.

532

Intriguing to a lot of people who just

thought there was no other way to do it.

533

Speaker: Mm-hmm.

534

Yeah.

535

Yeah, for sure.

536

Innovation is the word that

I was kind of struggling for.

537

So I think it's, it's,

it's definitely innovative.

538

It makes me wonder if also that

there would be many people on the

539

academic side, nursing, academics,

and even healthcare administration,

540

academics, that would be interested

in collaborating and studying the

541

positive effects of this kind of thing.

542

Ben: Yeah.

543

that's, at the moment, that's

something I haven't pursued yet.

544

It's, it's on my to-do list.

545

I think, of the, of the physical

therapist I've talked to, there's

546

been a lot of interest there.

547

I'm trying to get some collaborations

going with them to see, their

548

side of the puzzle and how

they conceive these movements.

549

And, kind of a hopeful, I'm, I'm hopeful

that we can get some, some back and

550

forth education of each other going on.

551

but one of the things that I've

really found there is that.

552

A lot of the fundamental concepts.

553

I, I think we, I, I think honestly, power

lifters are maybe the closest because they

554

have to, again, it's, they are lifting

and it's very dangerous, so they have to

555

be so attuned to how their bodies work.

556

So a lot of the breathing, a lot of the

posture, those things are present there.

557

And so I'm, I'm fascinated to

get in with some folks who, who

558

are doing other disciplines.

559

I've, I've got a, a very, a very

deep bench on my martial arts,

560

of, of people who I work with.

561

But, stepping outside that, that room

has been really interesting so far.

562

Speaker: Yeah.

563

Yeah.

564

That's, that's fantastic.

565

I'm just curious then, in terms of.

566

The martial arts background, are there

certain, I mean, you've already mentioned

567

certain principles, but like as far

as something specific, like say for

568

patient transfers, are there, are there

specific disciplines or principles that,

569

aside from just the, the introductory

mindset with the posture and the breath?

570

Mm-hmm.

571

Can you just explain a little

bit about some, maybe some key

572

principles that translate most

directly to safer patient transfers?

573

Ben: Certainly.

574

a lot of, a lot of the most,

important movement for me has

575

been out of Japanese jiujitsu.

576

which is, most people think

Brazilian juujitsu now, which is

577

mostly a ground-based system, I

think it's reasonably fair to say.

578

but mostly Japanese jiujitsu is

a standing, a standing juujitsu

579

typically, you didn't wanna

be with, with swords in play.

580

You didn't wanna be rolling

around on the ground with someone.

581

So, That, that movement's

been very influential to me.

582

And a big part of that is moving

from the center of gravity.

583

So when I do transfers, I like, I talk

about, that's a, that's a principle.

584

We're, we're pushing with our

hands all the time, but the more

585

I move with my center of gravity,

the less I have to do that.

586

So one of the pieces I really like

to talk about is kind of, it is

587

difficult to explain without touching

people, but adhering to someone.

588

So it's, it's like I'm stuck

to them and I just get in my

589

position and I move my center.

590

So I'm not yanking, I'm not, twisting

or do, I'm moving my center of gravity

591

and I'm always keeping them in my front.

592

So you see people pivot and

they twist their waists?

593

Well, when, when I do a pivot, I'm always,

shuffling with them and keeping my center

594

in line with them, things like that.

595

It doesn't let a 100 pound

nurse lift a a 350 pound person.

596

there's, I, I don't wanna give people

the impression that they shouldn't

597

be careful or that they're, that

precautions need to be taken no matter

598

what, but those things allow you to

work at your body's maximum efficiency.

599

so moving with the center of gravity,

it's, maybe the most fundamental

600

concept of any martial art.

601

and then

602

pieces about balance are,

are really important as well.

603

So, the other.

604

And, and again, we, we studied this a lot

in jujitsu where, where is our weak spot?

605

Where's our weak spot imbalance?

606

Well, we've always got an equilateral

triangle in front of us and behind us.

607

And the third point in that triangle

out in front of us and behind

608

us is always our weakest point.

609

and we call that

triangulating the balance.

610

So when you see caregivers square

up, put their feet side by side

611

and bend over, you're going into

your weakest point of balance.

612

So when you pick someone up, you

are more likely to lose your balance

613

forward, or if they lose their balance

coming toward you to fall backwards.

614

And in both cases, typically

both of you go down.

615

if we shift our stance, we never get

rid of our triangulation point unless

616

we're using an assistive device, but.

617

If we just shift our stance to

the side, we take that balance

618

point out of the equation.

619

so now, if I'm, if I'm bladed in my

stance with one foot forward and one

620

back, I'm bringing into my structure,

rather than bringing into a place where

621

there's no structure, pieces like that

in, in the jiujitsu world, that's key.

622

'cause if you lose track of that,

you lose, in the, in the world

623

of caregiving and transfers.

624

If you lose track of that

again, someone gets injured.

625

So those are some key principles

that I like to emphasize.

626

And it's, it, it's, fixing your

feet is easy moving with the center.

627

I, I elements like that, I feel very

lucky that I've got about 25 years

628

teaching experience as well because.

629

When I started doing this, I already

had a lot of ways to express what I was

630

talking about because I've been showing

students how to do that for a long time.

631

So bringing it down into simpler

terms for, for someone who's not

632

a martial artist, has not been,

thankfully, too difficult for me.

633

I imagine myself trying to do this 15

years ago, and it would've been so much

634

harder just because my students have

taught me so much about the process.

635

so that's tho those are

some, those are some points.

636

I, I, it's, it's easy enough to talk

about, without, without touching people.

637

But that's another thing that

is really important is feel.

638

I, I don't teach this class.

639

I, I will do follow up and coaching

online, but if you want me to teach

640

this class, I have to be there

in person because we have to feel

641

what the other person's doing.

642

it's not, it's not something you can

learn like you and I are right now.

643

Mm-hmm.

644

Speaker: I can imagine for sure.

645

We'll have to, I'll have to talk to

some of the administrators and nursing

646

leaders in some of the retirement

homes that I go provide care at

647

and see if they'd be interested.

648

I'm sure they'd be fascinated

by the, by the approach.

649

And I'll try and encourage them to get

in touch with you and see if we bring,

650

bring some of these techniques up

into our facilities in Vancouver here.

651

Ben: I'd love to talk to 'em.

652

That'd be wonderful.

653

Speaker: Yeah, yeah, for sure.

654

It's also interesting to me, I

mean, there's such a broad range

655

of different types of martial arts

obviously, but in particular, I was

656

noticing that in your work you're

referencing Tai Chi principles, like

657

softness, flow, and minimal effort.

658

So I'm curious how those particular ideas

show up practically in your training.

659

Ben: Yes.

660

so

661

first off, I'll just kind of go in order.

662

So softness, When we think about if

I, if I took, my, my coffee mug here

663

and dropped it on the ground, it would

shatter because it's very brittle.

664

that's when, when we hence our muscles and

we firm up and we take the slack out of

665

them, that's, that's what I try to do to

people who I wanna throw on the ground.

666

I try to make them tense up and try

to take the slack out because that

667

gives me a handle to work with.

668

They're brittle now.

669

so, a little gruesome, but something

that's brittle I can break.

670

if you take a piece of rope and drop it

on the ground, no problem because it's

671

flexible and it just, blah, no problem.

672

It's, again, a, a key principle

of jiujitsu is that you're using

673

the person's energy against them.

674

And if, if they're a, if they're a glass,

there's a lot of energy to go with.

675

If they're a rope, there's

no attack anymore, so.

676

For, for someone who's trying to

execute a technique, you wanna

677

be very flexible, very soft.

678

And that, again, that goes

back to moving from the center.

679

If I'm not, deadlifting someone, if I'm

not curling someone, then that allows

680

me to stay soft and loose and pliable.

681

It allows me to adjust.

682

And one thing that we don't

like to do in martial arts is

683

to totally commit to something.

684

Because if it goes wrong, then the

other person has the upper hand.

685

So, as we go in with softness,

we can adjust, we can move

686

and goes back to the flow.

687

Now, so let's say I start to

bring someone up and their knee

688

goes out and they start to shift.

689

Well, now I can flow and adjust.

690

If I'm so committed to the path

of movement that I've described or

691

that I have set in my own mind and

I'm rigid, then when they go wrong.

692

I'm already tense.

693

I, there goes my back.

694

If I'm flexible and I have that flow, I

can shift my center of gravity instead

695

of tightening my muscles and causing that

tension that causes pulls, and sprains.

696

When I'm soft, I can adjust

and I don't have to panic.

697

there's that moment where you feel

everything go wrong and you can tell, it's

698

like you're, you're about to, you, you

just realize that you're about to have a

699

car accident and there's no stopping it.

700

That, that moment where it all goes wrong.

701

If you're flexible and your mind

is present, then you can adjust and

702

hopefully protect the person and yourself.

703

especially if you have structured up

beforehand in a way that's safest.

704

So, again, from the, from the mental to

the physical, those aspects really help.

705

And then, the, from the, from

the physical perspective.

706

If your body is structured correctly,

you can be soft and flowing.

707

there's a lot of powerful movement

in that, more so than when you're

708

tense, you can transfer energy more

effectively, when you're soft than

709

when you're tense, whether it's coming

to you or allowing the person to

710

sit back down, it's more controlled.

711

and that's, when we try to control

with muscle, then if the person's

712

too big, too heavy, too anything, or,

sometimes people resist in their care.

713

they've, they've pushed away.

714

They don't, they don't want

you to pick them up, okay?

715

Then we'll set back down.

716

But if that happens, and I'm so committed

to where I'm going and they push and

717

I wrench and and I'm rigid, and that,

that's where the injuries happen.

718

So I think a.

719

I think those concepts and, and

I've, I'm not, and my, my karate

720

teacher was also a Tai Chi teacher,

so I picked up pieces of that.

721

but I, I'm much more studied in

the Japanese juujitsu, which relies

722

on a lot of the similar concepts.

723

So, I, I think those two arts have

really influenced a lot of how I think

724

about moving people, which is, again,

going back to like how our lizard

725

brain, our lizard brain sort of evolved.

726

we, we have the, The Hulk smash mentality.

727

and if it's not working, I'm

just gonna pull harder, push

728

harder, smash through it.

729

Where, when, when we're looking

at, and again for the species

730

that may be what works, but for us

individually, that's how we get hurt.

731

So if we can retrain those to be more

effective, that's what, that that's what

732

would separate the, the foot soldiers

from the, the elites, the foot soldiers,

733

hand them a sword and good luck.

734

where the elites would study and

practice for years and years and

735

years and, they would, they would

kind of master their minds than their

736

bodies and stand a better chance,

because their mechanics were correct.

737

Speaker: Mm-hmm.

738

Yeah.

739

Yeah, for sure.

740

I'm curious, what kind of

feedback are you getting from.

741

Caregivers facilities that you've been

working with in terms of follow up and,

742

and how have things been going in terms

of the, how the program is received?

743

How has that been going for you?

744

Ben: It's been, again, I, you, you

put something out there and you hope,

745

and it has been very well received.

746

I've been

747

really unexpected, feedback on it that

has just been overwhelmingly positive.

748

I've worked with caregivers and, you,

you go in and say, with anybody, I've,

749

I'm doing stuff that a lot of my martial

artists has taken me 10 years to get 'em

750

there, but that's with someone trying

to punch 'em while they're doing it.

751

this is, and, and providing

resistance and all these things.

752

but when you're helping someone

who's compliant, I've been.

753

Really pleased to see that I've been

able to teach these principles in a

754

day, and then to come back and have

people say, that really worked for me.

755

That was a lot easier.

756

I tried it with this person.

757

Speaker: Mm-hmm.

758

Ben: has been really gratifying.

759

And one of the other things that I stress

with them as a teaching tool, to, to try

760

to get over some of the complexity is I

don't try to teach for every position.

761

I, I I say it's principle based.

762

It's not position based.

763

So, virtually all of my training

is from a seated to standing

764

and standing to seated position.

765

That's what we do because it

covers all of the principles.

766

And at the end of the day, I'll say,

well, throw me some curve balls.

767

What, what's a, what's

something you run into?

768

And I've had people, toss out

some things that I say, well,

769

I haven't run into that one.

770

Let's, let's look at it.

771

So we'll get in, get in position and I'll

say, okay, what principles can we use?

772

Okay, well, the person's lying down.

773

And what I do is, I've, I try to,

get one hand and I'll, I'll take

774

'em by the shoulder and pick 'em up.

775

And I say, okay, can we reposition

that so you can get around

776

the body and push them up?

777

Oh, yeah.

778

And, and to start to start

thinking in those terms.

779

So getting people into that, that mode

where they're, again, it's the pause.

780

I go in and, oh, geez, I

haven't seen this before.

781

better just yank, no, take the pause.

782

Okay.

783

How do I get my balance

right in this position?

784

How do I and caregivers have

responded really well to that.

785

And the, the people who I've trained,

like I've, I've trained several,

786

like owners of home health agencies

for instance, have just picked that

787

up really quickly and said like,

this is, this is pretty amazing.

788

Like, I never knew I could

move people like this.

789

So it's been very exciting to see

you, you see that moment where

790

the eyes light up and they go, oh.

791

And, it's been exciting 'cause it's the

same one that I see and my, my karate

792

students faces when I do something and

they, they suddenly get it, And oh, and

793

that's a wonderful moment, as a teacher.

794

Speaker: Yeah.

795

Yeah.

796

Fantastic.

797

It makes me also think that perhaps

the next level, challenge would be

798

for those, residents and, and clients

who, who do have cognitive impairment

799

and they maybe don't understand the

importance of the, the need for help that

800

they're defaulting back living in the

past, so to speak, defaulting back to

801

thinking that they can manage their own

personal care, but in fact they can't.

802

And so then they are in

fact somewhat resistive.

803

And so there are these, I'm sure

you're aware these, strategies

804

like gentle persuasive approach.

805

So I'm sure that, your kind of approach

the next level would be also helpful for

806

those kinds of challenging situations

for caregivers and residents as well.

807

Ben: Yeah.

808

The, the communication, 'cause that's

another, I, I'm really focusing in on the,

809

the ergonomics right now, but I've spent

a lot of time teaching the communication

810

as well, and that's, It's the transition

of doing something in, in the worst

811

case scenario to someone in a better

scenario, doing something for someone.

812

And in my world, in the best scenario,

doing something with someone.

813

so communicating what's up?

814

Hey, is it okay with you if we

go to breakfast right now, oh,

815

we're gonna, we're gonna redirect,

we're gonna do all these things to

816

include.

817

and for me, everything

goes back to martial arts.

818

It's my life.

819

So, when, when you're doing.

820

really classical, jiujitsu,

it's critical that both sides

821

are engaged and fully engaged.

822

And one of the interesting pieces

that you don't see in the modern

823

arts is that the side that is the

teaching side is the senior side.

824

So the person who's being thrown is

the person who's on the teaching side.

825

because they have to feel the movement

so much more completely than the person

826

who's doing it because they are feeling

the movement being done to them and

827

then guiding the person through it.

828

sometimes even, without the person knowing

it, correcting the move on the way.

829

And to me, that's another

important approach.

830

The person who we are assisting,

the person receiving the

831

technique of the transfer is the

one who should be teaching us.

832

They teach us, their movement and then.

833

We respond to that by, kind of showing

them where to go with our movement.

834

And so that, that mutuality it,

it's so easy to get into the, the

835

space that I'm doing a transfer.

836

We are doing a transfer.

837

Me and the person who's, it's

a, it's a two person affair.

838

Speaker: Mm-hmm.

839

Ben: So if we don't include them in

that, and if we don't communicate

840

what's happening, and, I, I, to me,

I don't care if the person's not

841

even, able to verbally communicate.

842

I'm still talking.

843

we're, we're still going

through things and things.

844

I'm still asking permission.

845

Speaker: Right.

846

Ben: And I'm still looking at

facial expressions and allowing

847

that person to guide the process

as much as humanly possible.

848

And that's where I.

849

I, I, I deal a lot with the mechanics,

obviously, but, the, the heart of the

850

process has to be the person we're

assisting has to be the person who

851

is, we're performing this transfer on

them, they're receiving the transfer,

852

and their body is communicating to us.

853

They are teaching us how to move them.

854

and that's, they're the,

they're the important side.

855

They're the teaching side.

856

They show us we're not,

we're not doing it to them.

857

We're doing it with them

and they are guiding us.

858

Whether, even if in extreme dementia

in the, in late stage Alzheimer's say,

859

that person is still there, that person

is still guiding, and even if they're

860

not doing it with intention or even

super present, we can be really present

861

with what their body is telling us.

862

So.

863

That communication to me, that

mutuality is something that, again,

864

if we don't have that beginner's mind,

we start to just do stuff to people.

865

Speaker: Mm-hmm.

866

Ben: And that's one of the differences in

867

adequate care versus exceptional care, is

that in our minds, the person stays there.

868

They, they don't become a box over time

or a sack of rice that we're picking up.

869

They're a human being who

we are communicating with.

870

When I transfer them, they

are transferring with me.

871

We are sharing this experience and

they have to talk to me, even if it's

872

just physically and I have to listen.

873

one of the, one of the pieces of

healthcare that I think is really

874

lacking is the listening and.

875

I think there's a chaos in the insurance

companies and the trepidation and

876

the, the waiting periods and I mean,

it's, it's, it's really difficult to

877

put oneself in the hands of another.

878

Yeah.

879

And if there's not a space to be

heard in that, my wife went in and

880

had a doctor's appointment and, about

something she was very concerned about

881

and, the doctor just, he was trying,

but he just couldn't, his ears didn't

882

work and he couldn't see, this is

causing real grief and fear and sadness.

883

And if I just took one second and

let her talk and really listen.

884

So how are we accomplishing

that for people with dementia?

885

How are we understanding them as humans?

886

Speaker: Right.

887

Yeah.

888

Yeah, absolutely.

889

It's a, it's a really beautiful and

eloquent way of explaining that,

890

so I really appreciate it for sure.

891

And I mean, I think it just speaks to

the, just the immense value that, your

892

approach is bringing to this industry.

893

And so I was curious, so if, if you

were to think ahead in the next five, 10

894

years, with ongoing, buy-in and, and, and,

incorporation of these approaches that

895

Eastern ergonomics and Illuminate offers,

what would you say, if you were to kind

896

of, if you had your, your wishlist kind of

thing, how would healthcare look different

897

five or 10 years from now with these kinds

of approaches having been more, in, in,

898

implemented in a more widespread manner?

899

Ben: I mean the, the easy

one is reduction in injuries.

900

I have a very lofty goal of taking

transfer injuries off the top of the

901

list for the first time in forever.

902

for, for healthcare workers, I would

really like people to be safer.

903

what, what comes along with that is,

more money in the budget for things

904

that are, meaningful for residents.

905

hopefully things that are more

meaningful for the people who work there.

906

that's a lot of money we could

free up to do a lot of good.

907

So I, I would love to see that happen.

908

beyond that in a more, soft, soft focus,

I guess I would say that I, I would love

909

to see people embracing better structures.

910

I, I, I would like to see

people reexamine the assumptions

911

that we have about healthcare.

912

there's a lot of people with great

theory that doesn't meet the floor.

913

there's a lot of.

914

There's a lot of things out

there that I would like to be one

915

example saying, look, it's actually

more affordable, more engaging.

916

It reduces turnover.

917

It keeps your staff safe, and

it keeps them actually happy

918

because you show that you care.

919

And by doing that, they

stay, like who loses?

920

Who loses here?

921

Mm-hmm.

922

you save a ton of money.

923

Your staff stays on in the middle

of a, a caregiver crisis where

924

people are leaving the profession.

925

Baby boomers are entering the market.

926

I mean, we're in trouble.

927

Speaker: Yeah.

928

Ben: So you wanna keep your

people, here's how, here's a way.

929

So how can we do more things like that?

930

What are, what else are we assuming?

931

Without realizing the,

the things we don't know.

932

We don't know what, what things are

we assuming can't be fixed because we

933

just haven't seen anything different.

934

And can we look at those things?

935

I, I would love to see

that attitude breakthrough.

936

I think there's, I know there's a real

core of healthcare professionals who are

937

working in that attitude, in that space

who are breaking down those barriers

938

of what we've just accepted has to be.

939

Speaker: Mm-hmm.

940

Ben: Um, I'm, I'm lucky.

941

I, I got to work at one of those companies

for a long, long time and I, I want

942

to encourage the challenging of that.

943

I see, I see.

944

my mom has lived in a few different

memory cares now, and one was okay.

945

One was not so good.

946

And the one she's in now is

exceptionally, unbelievably wonderful.

947

she has, like, I, she, I,

I've seen light in her eyes.

948

I never thought I would see

again, because they don't accept

949

that this is how it has to be.

950

Yes, there's Alzheimer's disease.

951

We're at this stage in medical progress.

952

We're not coming back from that.

953

But she's alive again in a way that

I thought was gone because they

954

don't accept that your life is over,

955

And, and is that an assumption we have?

956

Oh, you have Alzheimer's disease.

957

It's done.

958

We're just waiting now.

959

And that's, that's awful.

960

I, I mean, that's a living person

who still has wants and needs and

961

sorrows, and joys and, one of the,

one of the, a little bit of a tangent,

962

but one of the things I've found,

my mother's a lifelong musician.

963

and she was a, a preacher's wife, and she

always, played every, played every Sunday.

964

And we all followed in the last

six months, she has started playing

965

like I've never heard before.

966

She started playing like a musician.

967

I mean, I always heard the preacher's

wife who was playing for the crowd, so

968

we could all sing along and keep beat.

969

Now, she sits down at the piano and she's

weaving like three or four songs together.

970

I have to sit and listen.

971

Oh, I heard a little bit of that and

it's this amazing thing that I've

972

never heard her let loose before.

973

What if that was everyone?

974

What if that was possibility for everyone?

975

that, that, this isn't it.

976

It's not over when you get this

diagnosis, and I know everyone will

977

say that, but do we act that way?

978

And, because of grief, because of stress,

because of all these things, it's really

979

difficult to act that way, to be really

present, for family caregivers especially,

980

but it takes a toll on the professionals,

who, who get attached to their patients

981

and they have to kind of dissociate.

982

and, then the injuries come and then the

overtime comes and all these, how can

983

we, and, and, my, my piece is a, a drop

in the bucket of that issue, but how can

984

we bring more presence to everything?

985

Speaker: Mm-hmm.

986

Ben: I guess, that's a, that's a

fairly lofty answer on the, on the

987

soft side of things, but, I just

don't accept that we can't do better

988

and that's what I'd like to see.

989

I'd like to see us do better.

990

I'd like to see us take the attitude

that you never stop doing better there.

991

That, that's, again, that goes

back to traditional martial arts.

992

You're not, I, I tell people

you're not ever gonna be good,

993

but you're gonna be better.

994

when you're, I've worked with people

who are the heads of 500 year old

995

systems, and, and they'll, they'll very

openly say, I'm still working on it.

996

I'm still trying to get it right.

997

Lifelong martial artists, 80 years old,

they're still trying to get it right.

998

That's what healthcare has to be.

999

We, we have to still be

trying to get it right.

00:59:01,048 --> 00:59:03,778

We have to have the best

places in the world and still

00:59:03,778 --> 00:59:04,768

be trying to get it better.

00:59:05,438 --> 00:59:09,458

if I could bring that attitude, that

would be a wonderful legacy for my life.

00:59:10,748 --> 00:59:12,098

Speaker: Fantastic, Ben.

00:59:12,098 --> 00:59:12,998

I really appreciate it.

00:59:12,998 --> 00:59:17,168

It's such a positive and optimistic

and inspiring and hopeful message,

00:59:17,408 --> 00:59:21,878

and I also really appreciate you being

open and sharing your personal story.

00:59:21,878 --> 00:59:26,608

It's just, really, I'm, I'm glad to

hear I'm, again, obviously it's tragic,

00:59:26,608 --> 00:59:29,848

that your mom has that condition, but

that she's in a place now that, as you

00:59:29,848 --> 00:59:32,458

describe, is working out well for you all.

00:59:32,788 --> 00:59:35,218

And it makes me think it's fascinating.

00:59:35,218 --> 00:59:36,778

You'd be interested in a book.

00:59:36,988 --> 00:59:41,818

I've just been in the middle of listening

to an audio book of, it's Daniel Leviton.

00:59:41,848 --> 00:59:44,878

It's, the book is called, I

Heard There was a Secret Chord.

00:59:45,218 --> 00:59:49,658

he's a neuroscientist, but he, he's

also a musician and a, a, a, a sound,

00:59:49,718 --> 00:59:51,188

sound engineer, music producer.

00:59:51,188 --> 00:59:54,548

And so he's got a lot of

information in that book about how.

00:59:54,818 --> 00:59:58,118

music can improve the lives of people with

all different kinds of health problems.

00:59:58,118 --> 01:00:01,838

When there's a chapter in there on

neurocognitive disorders and Alzheimer's

01:00:01,838 --> 01:00:05,048

and it's, it just made me think of that

'cause it's exactly what you're describing

01:00:05,048 --> 01:00:09,068

and having seen with your mom and her,

her music, over the past little while.

01:00:09,068 --> 01:00:10,748

So, again, thank you so much, Ben.

01:00:10,748 --> 01:00:13,658

I mean, this has just been an

incredible conversation about

01:00:13,658 --> 01:00:16,058

movement and safety and dignity.

01:00:16,308 --> 01:00:16,743

the ancient.

01:00:17,338 --> 01:00:21,568

Perhaps somewhat hidden wisdom

that caregiving can reclaim when we

01:00:21,568 --> 01:00:23,638

slow down and listen to the body.

01:00:24,138 --> 01:00:28,308

and I just find the work so compelling,

in that it doesn't necessarily ask

01:00:28,308 --> 01:00:33,108

caregivers to work harder, but it asks

them to work smarter more gently and more

01:00:33,108 --> 01:00:38,028

sustainably, as you say, with, with wins

all the way from the individuals, not

01:00:38,028 --> 01:00:41,478

only the caregivers, but the residents,

clients, patients, but all the way

01:00:41,478 --> 01:00:43,548

through to the systems and the society.

01:00:43,798 --> 01:00:47,608

it's just such a, a wonderful,

project and, and vision.

01:00:48,068 --> 01:00:52,028

so I would really encourage for viewers

and listeners, anyone who's working in.

01:00:52,388 --> 01:00:55,328

These kinds of fields, nursing

long-term care, dementia

01:00:55,328 --> 01:00:57,188

care, healthcare leadership.

01:00:57,398 --> 01:01:00,908

I would strongly encourage you to

learn more about Ben's work through

01:01:00,938 --> 01:01:02,948

Illumined and Eastern ergonomics.

01:01:03,128 --> 01:01:06,068

I'm gonna put links to all of

Ben's work in the show notes.

01:01:06,068 --> 01:01:09,518

So I'd really encourage you all to

check that out and get in touch with

01:01:09,518 --> 01:01:14,208

Ben and, just find out as much as you

need to about his amazing work and,

01:01:14,238 --> 01:01:16,448

and, just really inspiring projects.

01:01:16,658 --> 01:01:20,528

So again, Ben, thank you so much for

not only the decades that you've devoted

01:01:20,528 --> 01:01:24,728

to protecting caregivers and honoring

clients and residents and patients, but

01:01:24,728 --> 01:01:26,528

thank you so much for joining us today.

01:01:26,768 --> 01:01:29,888

Really appreciate your time

and, yeah, thanks again.

01:01:30,488 --> 01:01:31,058

Ben: Thank you, Michael.

01:01:31,058 --> 01:01:32,348

It was a wonderful conversation.

01:01:32,378 --> 01:01:32,948

I appreciate it.

01:01:34,058 --> 01:01:34,328

Speaker: Okay.

01:01:34,328 --> 01:01:35,858

We'll have to keep in touch for sure.

01:01:35,858 --> 01:01:39,108

And, yeah, like I said before, it'd

be great to get, your program up

01:01:39,108 --> 01:01:42,738

here in the Vancouver, Canada area,

and I think there's a lot of people

01:01:42,738 --> 01:01:43,998

that are gonna be really interested.

01:01:43,998 --> 01:01:46,618

And so, I'll definitely, keep

in touch with you and reach

01:01:46,618 --> 01:01:48,148

out and see if we can Yeah.

01:01:48,148 --> 01:01:50,548

Bring some of your programs up

into our facilities up here.

01:01:51,118 --> 01:01:51,538

Ben: All right.

01:01:51,628 --> 01:01:52,378

Thank you so much.

01:01:53,158 --> 01:01:53,458

Speaker: Okay.

01:01:53,458 --> 01:01:53,848

Take care.

01:01:53,848 --> 01:01:54,148

Thanks.

01:01:54,148 --> 01:01:54,448

Bye-bye.

01:01:54,773 --> 01:01:55,063

Ben: Okay,

01:01:55,063 --> 01:01:55,543

Speaker: bye-bye.

01:01:56,670 --> 01:02:00,210

Speaker 3: Thank you so much for joining

us today on the Neurostimulation Podcast.

01:02:00,450 --> 01:02:03,510

I hope that you enjoyed this

conversation as much as I did.

01:02:03,780 --> 01:02:07,140

If you found today's episode

interesting, don't forget to like

01:02:07,140 --> 01:02:08,820

and subscribe to the podcast.

01:02:09,000 --> 01:02:11,850

It's the best way to make sure

that you never miss an episode.

01:02:12,165 --> 01:02:15,105

And it helps us to reach more

curious minds like yours.

01:02:15,855 --> 01:02:18,795

Also, if you think that today's

episode might resonate with a

01:02:18,795 --> 01:02:22,755

friend, a family member, or a

colleague, please share it with them.

01:02:23,085 --> 01:02:26,655

This kind of knowledge is better when

it's shared and you never know who else

01:02:26,655 --> 01:02:31,305

might find this information helpful

or inspiring for more details about.

01:02:32,005 --> 01:02:37,165

Ben's company and his projects, please

do check out the links in the show notes.

01:02:37,525 --> 01:02:41,545

Um, I would really encourage anyone

particularly in these fields who thinks

01:02:41,545 --> 01:02:45,205

that his approach might be something

that could improve the quality of

01:02:45,205 --> 01:02:47,275

care in your particular setting.

01:02:47,605 --> 01:02:51,385

Um, I think it would be great to reach

out and, uh, just find out as much as you

01:02:51,385 --> 01:02:55,645

can about what he has to offer because,

uh, it just strikes me as so innovative.

01:02:56,010 --> 01:03:01,470

And, um, interesting in terms of the, um,

likelihood that it's gonna improve the

01:03:01,470 --> 01:03:05,820

lives of not only the people that we're

caring for, but us as caregivers as well.

01:03:06,210 --> 01:03:10,320

Also, if you have any thoughts,

questions, or comments, please do put

01:03:10,320 --> 01:03:12,120

those in the comment section below.

01:03:12,390 --> 01:03:16,170

Um, if you have any ideas for future

episodes, I'd love to hear about that.

01:03:16,440 --> 01:03:20,040

Your questions, ideas, and any

feedback that you can offer certainly

01:03:20,040 --> 01:03:21,540

will make this podcast better.

01:03:22,085 --> 01:03:24,965

And finally, don't forget to

tune into the next episode.

01:03:25,265 --> 01:03:29,525

It's gonna be another exciting journey

into the cutting edge of neuroscience,

01:03:29,525 --> 01:03:34,475

clinical neurostimulation, caregiving,

interventional mental health,

01:03:34,535 --> 01:03:38,135

ketamine, assisted psychotherapy,

all kinds of interesting topics.

01:03:38,315 --> 01:03:40,355

So thanks again for viewing and listening.

01:03:41,045 --> 01:03:43,025

So thanks again for

watching and listening.

01:03:43,235 --> 01:03:43,895

Take care.

01:03:43,895 --> 01:03:47,435

Stay curious, and I'll see you next

time on the Neurostimulation Podcast.