270: [Danielle Boucree] The Sandwich Generation: Balancing Aging Parents and Growing Kids

In this insightful episode of ABOUT THAT WALLET, host Anthony Weaver delves into the complexities of the sandwich generation with special guest Danielle Boucree, a licensed psychotherapist and owner of Hope Psychotherapy. Together, they explore the emotional and financial challenges faced by adults who are simultaneously caring for aging parents and supporting their own children. Danielle shares her expertise on managing these dual responsibilities, drawing from her extensive experience in couples and individual therapy.

Join us as we discuss:

• The definition and struggles of the sandwich generation.
• Emotional strategies for coping with aging parents and empty nesting.
• The importance of healthy communication and setting boundaries.
• How to build strong emotional relationships with family members.
• Practical tips for managing anxiety and mindfulness techniques.
• Whether you're part of the sandwich generation or simply looking for ways to improve family dynamics, this episode offers valuable insights and practical advice.

=||Chapters||=

00:00:00 - Introduction

00:01:10 - Welcoming Danielle Boucree

00:03:00 - The Sandwich Generation Explained

00:07:30 - Emotional Strategies for Coping

00:12:45 - Healthy Communication and Setting Boundaries

00:18:20 - Building Strong Emotional Relationships

00:22:50 - Managing Anxiety and Mindfulness Techniques

00:28:15 - The Importance of Self-Care

00:33:00 - Final Four Questions

00:45:00 - Closing Remarks

Discover more about Danielle Boucree and her work:

Website: https://myhopestation.com

Instagram: @ihope.station

THANK YOU FOR LISTENING!

#SandwichGeneration #MentalHealth #AboutThatWallet #FamilyDynamics #SelfCare

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--

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Episode 270

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And then now he just left a couple

of weeks ago and it's quiet and I'm

going through all of the things, but my parents,

um, who, ah, were actually

pretty self sufficient, right. But I

definitely noticed like the changes in memory

loss, right. And so them just

naturally forgetting things or,

um, you know, my dad, my dad passed away a couple of years ago,

but as he was, um,

I don't want to say being forced to retire, but he was being forced to

slow down. He was an accountant and he just

kept, he kept on working. He was like, the day I

stop working is the day I leave. Like, I'm

working till the end, which we

understood, but it was hard to watch because of the

declines as well.

Right.

And you know, for some of us, we're like trying to take the keys away from

our parents because we don't want them to hurt themselves.

It's just, it's a lot of moving

pieces.

Welcome everybody, back to another exciting show of the

about that wallet podcast, where we help you build strong

financial habits so that you can have the confidence

in spending money, making money and talking about

money. But today I have the awesome

opportunity to bring on somebody who is going

to be talking about the sandwich generation. And what do

I mean by the sandwich generation? That is the aging

population and generation young adults

that are struggling to achieve financial independence.

And with the burdens and responsibilities of

aging Americans are increasing. So

nearly 47% of

adults, uh, in their forties

and fifties, have a percentage. I mean, has

a parent that is age 65 and

older, and they're also raising

young children or financially supporting a grown

child, 18 or older. Um,

and also they supporting their parents at the same time. So this

is something that we're going to be diving into.

And I do not want to hold it up any much further

because we have an awesome psychotherapist

who, uh, is the owner of the hope

psychotherapy, and her name

is Danielle Bucra. How

you doing today, Danielle?

I'm, um, good. Thanks for having me.

So, I know we just talked, like I just mentioned

about the sandwich generation, but you've been in the game

for quite a while, and you've

also a psychotherapist that's licensed in Maryland, DC,

Virginia, Massachusetts, North Carolina,

Florida and Georgia. Like, do you have to take like, different tests

to kind of get to all these different places or they kind of like inherited?

Like, what's the deal with that one test? Lots

of continuing education. That's what I.

And you also specialize in like, couples therapy as

well as individual, uh, therapy. As well.

Correct?

I do. I do. Early in my career, I was trained

with, uh, the Gottman Institute, which is a, uh, premier

research institute for couples. Ah, work.

And I've just fallen in love with working with my couples.

So I love it.

Yeah. And what I want to bring you on is

because a lot of us are aging up

1240s, and people who are listening to this

episode actually to this whole show are

roughly around that 35 to 45 range. So some

of these people are approaching 40, which is

that, you know, right at the top of

the sandwich generation or the beginning parts of that sandwich

generation. Um, and we go into a

lot emotionally. What is something

that we should kind of look into to kind

of build a strong

emotional relationship with ourselves?

Yeah. Well, you know, it is a rough

time, and its a time that not a lot of us

are talking about openly.

Right.

Um, you know, I love the coin term

sandwich generation, but owning it

is really much more difficult than it would

seem. You kind of, uh, when you approaching it, you feel like

you're the only one going through it.

Right.

So a lot of us talk about empty nesting.

Right.

And that's obvious because our lives are revolved around our

children, and then, you know, we lose that.

And it takes a lot of time and energy

to kind of get caught up. But at the same time, for

most of us, we're noticing, like, we're going home to visit

our parents and we're like, uh, something's off.

Right.

Or. Or my mom keeps repeating the same

stories. Or, you know, it's. It's the little things that we kind of

notice are off. And before we know what, we're full blown

trying to also take care of them while we're

trying to, uh, launch our children. So

it's a lot. It's a very heavy time.

Yeah. Because, you know, we talked offline and you're

talking about, like, you finally got rid of. Not got rid of

them, but

they graduated out of the nest.

Yes, but also, um,

how are you dealing with, like, your parents during that time frame? Were you

taking care of them? Were they, um,

living with you? How did that conversation

happen?

No, my parents. My parents never lived with

me. Um, they're in Florida and I'm up north.

But, um, it

as. So, like we said, like, I have

three kids and they're. They're now 25, 23

and 19. But since my

25 year old was about 17.

Right.

It started becoming real that, like, my household was going to

shift.

M. Right.

And we sent her off to college. And indeed it did shift

because now I only have two at home and then I have another

one that is grown, not grown

like off in the middle of Maine somewhere

like doing her thing. And so it's

a shift. And then two to three years later I had another shift

where now I have only one child at home.

Um. And then now

he just left a couple of weeks ago

and it's quiet and I'm going through all of the things.

But my parents um,

who ah. Were actually pretty self

sufficient.

Right.

But I definitely noticed like the changes in

memory loss.

Right.

And so them just naturally

forgetting things or um, you know,

my dad. My dad passed away a couple of years ago. But

as he was, um.

I don't want to say being forced to retire but he was being forced to

slow down. He was an accountant and he just

kept, he kept on working. He was like the day I

stopped working is the day I leave. Like I'm um,

working till the end, which we

understood, but it was hard to watch because of the

declines as well.

Right.

And you know, for some of us we're like trying to take the keys away from

our parents because we don't want them to hurt themselves.

It's, it's just, it's, it's a lot of

moving pieces and so much. I think this is the

hardest part is that so much we can't control.

Right.

We've just got to get flexible

because.

We always want to control not just

the situation but also to make sure that our parents are doing

okay.

Yeah, yeah. It's

important, but we actually get the skills

for those of us that are sandwiching

when our kids are growing up in order to

have a healthy relationship with them as they're trying to

gain their independence, it's really important that we kind

of loosen the reins a little bit. M

so that a kid at

8910, when we're controlling all of the things and

all of the activity at 13 1415,

they don't really want us to control anything. So we try and

hold on to a little as much as we can.

Right.

And at 1617 we actually have to let

go of control otherwise they

won't launch. Like it's just, it's inevitable. We

have to let go. And you kind of

practice that with your parents as well.

Right.

They actually have the independence they like raised

you so they know how to do it.

Right. Right.

And then suddenly you're trying to control what they

do, where they go, what they're able to do

and they're resisting. It's kind of like those

horrible teenage years when you're raising your

kids, it mirrors it

completely. So

if we're able to heal the wounds with

our parents and all the layers that come with those and

really see them as somebody who is

losing agency instead of gaining

agency and have that empathy

for them, it's so much easier said than done. Yes,

it's really hard to do that,

but with patience and love, like, that's. That's what

you have to hold on to, as opposed to holding on to the

sense of, like, control, say, on.

The emotional side of the house. Because for some people who

are married and they are in this

transition, where they have the father and

mother in law on both sides

and say, which one set? Which set is

older? And do you guys have that

conversation as a married couple to say,

like, hey, if my mom or dad

are going through this process, what do

we do? Do we have a move in with us, or do

we have them go into a home? Or do we

buy, uh, what they call them, aud,

like a development in the back of the house

so that they can just stay in? Right.

Has those conversations come up? Uh, uh. In your

practice and, like, how did they manage? Well,

what guidance would you give somebody?

Yeah, of. Of course they've come up. And I

think some of it is an

understanding of the value of family.

Like, in your. In your immediate family.

Like, how do we value

family members, right? And having the

talks about, like, what. What if this happens?

Because we have no idea how our parents are actually going to

age.

Right?

Whether they're going to have all of their, you know, their

wits about them or they're not. Whether physically,

whether they're going to decline or not. We don't know. There's so

much unknown, uh, which comes with so much anxiety. So

from a couple's perspective, right. It's about

leaning on each other and being transparent and

talking, talking, talking. I

can't emphasize the importance of a

support system when you're going through this.

And a partner is the best form

of, um, a healthy support system because

you're kind of experiencing the same stuff.

Um, but, yeah, you

can do. The earlier you start talking about

it, the better.

Okay. So, like, when they dating or, like,

when they engage?

Well, I think in any healthy relations

relationship, family is a factor.

Gotcha.

Right.

So you're constantly talking about family and the

role that family plays in your life and

how you want family to show up for you

in your life as a couple. So even when you're dating

or engaged or getting married, family is something

that you deal with on a regular basis.

And so a lot of it depends also on how your

parents, for example, show up for you

as you're growing your family and how you're, as

you're getting older and how connected they are. But at the end of

the day, even when they start

the decline, whether you're super

close or you're even

estranged, they're still your parents. You still hold

some sense of responsibility to, um, um,

to help them through their journey.

Okay. Because I'm thinking of, uh,

how it also, like a lot of people say, you know what, you're just getting

in the home. I'm, um, not going to deal with this. I'll

put you up in the home no matter what.

That's real.

This is, I can't take it, you

know? Um. And then the other siblings,

if you have any, how does that work?

Yeah, right. A lot of time that causes strain in a

family. Like, I have a client

whose siblings just aren't showing up. They're just depending

on her, um, to do all the things, which

is really, it's tough from her

perspective.

Right.

And everything that she's got to handle and lead.

But it's also like, okay, once this journey is

over with her parents, it also then affects, has a long term effect

on the relationships with the siblings.

Yeah.

Right.

Because there's some resentment there. So it's

emotional time and then wait.

Till the will comes out like

facts.

For real?

Yes. Um, because I had a client,

not a client, I had a guest on the show who was going

through that process in the estate planning, and

the parent did not relay the

information to all the children,

only to two of the three. So

when time happens, it's like that

third one was like, well, you know, I want

a third of the, I want to cut too, because I was,

even though I'm the child, they weren't part of the process

of helping out the parent and stuff like that. So it's

like those type of conversations,

like, how do you still emotionally show

up for the rest of your family?

Like during that process? Or we just set like, boundaries, like

healthy boundaries. How can we set those?

Yeah, I mean, healthy boundaries are,

ah, boundary setting, I think for most humans is

hard, right. Because sometimes there comes,

like, it's associated with guilt. Like, can I really

ask for what I need? Answer is

always, yes, you can always ask for what you need.

Um, but there's some guilt that comes along with that

sometimes. But it's really important that everybody

knows how to treat one another and what you

expect and what you need and that's all boundary setting is

really like training or treating,

telling people how you want to be treated. Um,

but, you know, you talked earlier about decisions

like, to, do we put mom or dad

in a home? Do we have them move in with one of

us? Like, those are big decisions to make and

life altering decisions to make.

Right?

So it's important that the communication

is open and honest and transparent

between those making those kinds of decisions.

Right.

Without criticism, without anybody getting

defensive. And those are the healthy

communication tips that are so important to get you

through these tougher conversations.

Yeah. And, um, with the, um,

especially in the black community, I mean, we don't talk

about mental health enough.

So what is it that, uh, you think

we can kind of start doing to kind of open up that

communication?

Well, I think the one thing is to be

honest and transparent about the way you're

feeling.

Right.

And I talk about feelings in my practice a lot. All my

clients know. They're like, oh, uh, here she goes again with these

feelings. The feelings are really important.

We all feel something all the time,

whether, you know, what word to

associate with that feeling is a skill

and a skill to be practiced. There's something

that, uh, your whole audience can look for

online. It's either called the feelings wheel or the emotions

wheel. But it's just at, uh, feeling

adjectives that we can use to tell other

people how we feel.

Right.

Just implementing that, like, letting people

know how you feel, like, instead of, how are

you? I'm good. That's not. That's

not. That tells nothing. That tells us nothing.

So to say, like, today, I'm

feeling lonely right now. I'm a little frustrated.

Right.

And the. The conversation that, that even

that just doing that opens up, connects

us to people in a different way than just, like,

the surface level connection.

Right.

But when we're, uh, one years old, two years

old, everybody celebrates first words.

Right?

First sentence.

Right.

But nobody actually celebrates or

encourages young people to use

feeling words. How are you feeling?

Right.

It doesn't always have to be bad. There are a whole bunch of adjectives

that are good feelings, too. But

that's how you connect with other people.

Yeah. Because I'm looking at this feeling wheel, I'm like, should I

just walk around with a feeling wheel in my pocket for real?

Bam.

Great.

Yes. I tell people,

I encourage people to print it out and put it on your

refrigerator, especially people with

families, because when the kids are

going from, like, nine years old to

1415, and they're having a lot of trouble

with their emotions, like, managing

them a lot of that is because they don't

have those feeling words, right? So they bottle

it all up inside and they get pissed off that nobody

understands them. It's

partially because they're not communicating how they feel.

Right.

And then we grow up to be these adults who can't communicate the way

we feel. So we also show up as, like, angry

or whatever. Right. It's the

feelings we is. It unlocks

so much potential to connect with other human

beings, whether it's your kids, your parents, or even your

friends.

I like that because it's reminded me of, uh,

Maslow's hierarchy of needs, of, like,

do we need to make sure we

communicate? And the third tier is the love and

belonging. Like, are we really communicating

so that we can feel loved and belong? So,

for those of you who are new to the show, I used to be a

teacher for elementary students, so this

was part of the process.

Love it, love it. Ah, I'm here for

it.

Um, okay, so can you. I know before

we go further on, but I do want to at least bring up the

difference. I'm sure people are wondering, like, well, what's the difference between

a psychotherapist and a psychologist? Can you

kind of go a little bit detail about what

the differences?

Yeah, um, there

isn't a lot of difference in the practice

of a psychologist or a

psychotherapist. I went to school.

I got my master's in social work, clinical social

work. A psychologist obviously gets

a master's in psychology.

It's the classes, it's the academics, it's the

curriculum that has a little

bit of variance. But when it comes to the

practice between a psychologist

and a psychotherapist, in my case, social

worker, m. What we

can offer is very similar.

Right.

Because we go on. I mentioned earlier, you mentioned all the states

that I have licenses in. I was like, it just means I have a

lot of continued education. Um,

is that I continue to educate myself in

different ways to help my clients. And at the end of

the day, the psychologists are doing the same,

so we're very similar. It's the

psychiatrist that,

um, prescribes medication. And

so by function, they are different.

But me and a psychologist, we're pretty similar.

Okay, so, like, if they come to you first, and then they can go to, like,

a psychologist,

psychiatrist, psychiatrist to.

Get the medication if they need it.

If they need it. And you're actually there to help them out

before they need the medication.

Some people choose to start

medication and talk therapy at the same

time, and that's great.

Um, other people come to a talk therapist

first, um, and then to get an

idea of maybe what they're dealing with and whether or

not they need medication. Not everybody, you

know, wants to be on medication or is open to

taking medication. So that's something that we would talk through as

well.

Like, how do we build that confidence in

ourselves before we just go out and say, like, you know what, mom, stand on

my ground. This is the way it's going to be,

and this is the way how you're going to treat me going forward.

Yeah. Yeah. Confidence is a tricky

one because it is so ingrained in the way you

were raised, in your childhood experiences.

And as a psychodynamic

therapist, I really believe in the connection

between who we are today and

how we were raised and the people that influenced us. It all kind

of comes together. Um,

for confidence, we have to remember that

our feelings and our thoughts

are connected, and then

the culmination of that will determine our

behavior. So if I show up or

I behave as not confident, it's not because

I want to be. It is because

my thoughts, um,

are dictating how I feel.

Right.

So I often tell people, you've got a

journal. Journaling isn't a diary.

It's to reflect on the way you're feeling and what you're

thinking. And so if we're

really aware what we're

thinking, then we can change

that. You can't change the way we feel.

Right?

Right.

I feel what I feel. I feel what I feel when I feel it,

period. But.

But I can change with the way I'm thinking. So if I'm

thinking, um, if I'm, let's

say I walk into a party and I'm feeling

insecure, right? It's

probably because I'm thinking negative, something

negative about either the way I look

or maybe the confidence I have

in the way I interact with other people. Maybe I'm shy.

So I'm walking into the party already thinking I'm shy.

And the stress is terrible.

Of course I'm not going to come off as confident,

but if I change my mindset

and I'm like, okay, actually, this dress is everything.

And, you know, people like me. I

am likable, I'm funny, I'm all the things,

right? Then I'm walking and then holding my head high,

and I'm going to look more confident.

So it's all really connected to what I'm

thinking inside. And the only way

to really understand that is to

journal it or spend some time talking about it.

Okay. Yeah. Practice in the

dark before you bring it out to the light. I got you

facts.

Yes.

Um. Um. Because one of the things that we

have is anxiety. Um. Um.

Coming up when we don't know what to deal with our

parents, uh, um. As we getting older,

how do we. I mean, because you mentioned

communication earlier

and how to actually become

better communicators about our feelings. We, uh, talked about

communicating of, uh, you know, where they're going to stay,

how they're going to continue on to live. But

sometimes we just don't know. And how do

we kind of quiet down

anxiety? I'm not going to say we get rid of it because it could

never really get rid of it. But how can we quiet the

noise of the unknowns?

There are a couple of things. I mean, and for

everybody, it's different. But anxiety

kind of means we're allowing our brain to

be ten steps ahead of us.

Right.

And we're making up the ten steps,

like, because we don't know. And it's that unknown

that makes you feel so anxious.

Right.

And so the answer is not making it up.

The answer is not assuming, because most of the time when we

assume it's negative and we don't actually

know that that's what's going to happen. So the idea is

to reel it back in and stay present.

Right.

And so we talk about being present and being

mindful.

Right.

The more mindful activities you can

do, the better. And it doesn't always have to include a

yoga mat and, like, you know, a, uh, sound bath. Like, it

doesn't have to be that level. Can be, but it doesn't

have to be. Mindfulness can be in the form of,

like, a walk where you're present and you're not

on your phone, but you're looking at the birds and

the trees, and you're really paying attention to what's

right in front of you. There's this thing called mindful

eating, right. And I often describe it. It's like

if you eat an orange to actually be

present enough to recognize that when you

pierce the skin of an orange, it kind of makes a little

sound. If you can be that in tune

with that experience, then you know you're completely

present. So the more activities you can do in that

way, in general, the better.

Right.

The other thing is something we carry with us all the time,

and that's breathing.

Right.

We have to breathe. Thank you.

Not the iPhone. Thank you.

Yes, we do have to breathe.

Yes, we do have to breathe.

And so when you get

anxious, the heart rate goes up. Like,

physiologically, your heart rate goes up.

The only way to bring that down

is to do some deep breathing.

Right?

So a lot of people roll their eyes when you're, like, you have to breathe.

It's so true. Physiologically, that is

the way to take care of your body. And it's not like,

when I'm talking to hyperventilating, like, I'm not talking fast breathing,

I'm talking slow breathing.

Right.

In and out. I like to

count in, you know, terms of eight, like,

deep, deep inhale for eight

counts and out for eight counts.

Okay.

Not everybody. Yeah, it's, it's really slow,

right. Because you have to let it out a little bit at a time.

Um, and if your mind is focused on doing

that, then it really can't focus on

anxious thoughts.

Right.

So for a little while, you get a break, and you're really

taking the time to get that heart rate down

so that you can think, because with an elevated

heart rate, you're using the wrong part of your brain

and there's no rational thoughts going.

So we've got to make sure to get that in check.

You breathing?

Yeah, I was breathing. I was like, all right, let's count eight. It's,

like, harder than it thinks.

It's like, I do account in for three, out

for three.

That's your challenge for the week. Eight. Uh, I want you to get to

eight.

Okay.

And I'm going to do a recording on Instagram, so

y'all can account with me, too. So we're going to get it together.

All right. Uh, we got the third segment here, which is

the features. And this is about you.

So what skills or habits that you feel is going to

take you to the next level?

Hmm.

M. Well,

for me, it's about being. So this

is my second career.

Um, I was in corporate America in

marketing for a couple of decades.

So this, for me, is my

Danielle 2.0.

Um, so my version of success,

if you will, looks a little bit different, and it looks a lot

more like, um, like, personal joy.

Right.

So I focus a lot on the

things that bring me joy, even when I'm looking at, like, my

own personal finances.

Right.

Of course you're going to have, uh, you

know, mortgage and. And,

I don't know, even gas and all the bills that are like,

okay, I have to do this

adulting. Yeah, all that.

But there's this, like, notion of, like, I also need to be

happy. So even in my personal budget, I make sure

there are line items of me doing things

that bring me joy, right. Because if

I'm fulfilled and joyful,

then I can actually give my clients what they need,

right? If I'm drained, then I can't do that.

So it's about self care, really, at the

end of the day, um, for me, and

making sure that my priorities line up with my

actions.

Okay. I like that for you

because that's something that a lot of people do forget to

do and which is self care,

because like you said, you're now

rediscovering yourself. Since

everybody is out, it's like, yes,

gone. What does Danielle want to do? Like, do I want

to go, you know, party it up, stay,

uh, out to 09:00.

And it's a balance, right? Because there were things that I

liked to do when I was in my twenties, before I started having

kids. And I'm like, I m don't really want to do many

of those things anymore.

Going to the club is not. Not the answer.

So now I've got to venture out and try new

things.

Mhm.

But, you know, I just started boxing.

What?

Okay.

I know, I know.

How's that going?

Watch out. I love it.

I love it.

Such a release. And it, it. You have no choice but to

be present because you're like, literally punching. Right,

perfect.

Do you put like a target up there, like somebody's face and be

like, you know what?

In my head? Absolutely.

Okay.

Uh, I'm not going to tell you.

I know. Okay. You know what makes you

happy that day?

Yeah, exactly.

Personal. Boxing is personal.

Exactly.

Is there anything that you want to leave the audience before we

dive into the final four questions?

Yeah. Yeah, I do. So when

it comes to this taking care of aging

parents, I think there are four things that I want

everybody to remember. And, um, you know,

my practice is called hope psychotherapy, and

I've kind of lived with this foundation of

hope. So, of course I want you to remember

it from the acronym Hope. And

the h stands

for, um, healing wounds.

Right.

So when it comes to relationships with our parents,

sometimes they can be layered and complicated.

Right.

And so it's about having those very

honest but open conversations with our parents

to heal some of those wounds the way we need them to be healed

and without criticism or defensiveness.

Just honest, transparent conversations.

Right.

It goes a long way. And at their older

age, they may be more open to hearing

what we actually have to say.

Um, so that's the h. The o

is for open communication. And I can't stress

this more, both with our

parents, you know, and. But also

with our friends and family.

Right.

We've got to start talking about this stuff more. It's part of our

journey.

Right.

The p stands for preparedness.

Once you start getting that

feeling or those thoughts, whether it's with our

kids and they're like, getting into

high school and we're starting to think, oh, um, like,

they're about to leave, what are the 102 things

I need to teach them before they go? Like, once you start

getting that feeling, it is time to really start focusing

on the journey. But with our parents, it's

about being prepared. So financially,

there are costs that come with taking care of aging

parents that we've got a budget for. But it's also

having those conversations with our parents about what their needs

are and what their hopes are, um, for their last

days. So it's a lot of that.

And that needs to happen as soon as you start getting that ick feeling

of like something's changing with my mom or my dad.

Yeah.

Um, and the e is

for that emotional acceptance.

Right.

To really. Because this is. I

posted something the other day, um, that talked

about, like, when we, when we have infants

and we're exhausted, right. We know that

it's going to get better and that's a growth. That means our kids are

growing and they're becoming more dependent, independent,

rather. And everything is good when

we are dealing with the exhaustion that comes with taking

care of our parents. What

we know is coming is loss,

and with loss comes grief, and that's hard.

Right.

But we've got to feel what we feel when we feel it.

Right?

You can't just dismiss those feelings. You really got to lean

into them and accept them for what they are and

journal. So those are my four.

Those are my four tips, if you will.

Love it. Yeah. Definitely have to

make sure that we bring this up,

uh, in ourselves, in our daily communication, uh,

with everybody. I think that's great.

Thank you.

Are you ready for the final four questions?

Absolutely.

All right,

number one, what does wealth mean to

you?

For me, um, wealth is being able to live

my life aligned with my actual

values, um, and

priorities without fear,

without concern of my own, like security

and safety.

Number two, what was your worst

money mistake?

I think my worst money mistake is

probably, um, and I still struggle with it, to

be honest with you. It is trying to

do too much at the same time.

M right.

Whether it's spending or paying off

debt, it's like,

I tend to.

Right.

If I have, like, three credit cards, I might put like

100 on each. Right. And

so they're eventually all going down, but really

slowly, as opposed to just focusing in on one and getting it

done.

Yeah.

And so it's that. It's that focus

on mini, um, goals, if you

will, that I struggle with just being

able to do that.

Yeah, we can, uh, dive into that later.

That's great.

Number three, what is your

favorite financial or non financial

book?

Okay, so I think I have two. Okay,

so I cheated, but,

um, one is crush. Ah, your money goals by

Bernadette joy, um,

because her program, the way she lays

it out, is so, um,

simple, but it also has helped me

transform my financial habits in a

way that feels really good.

There you go. It's upside down, but yes. There you go.

Yes. Um.

Oh, it is upside down.

It is upside down. There she goes. There she goes.

Um, and then my other one is actually a

book that was given to me, um, a couple of months

ago called happy money,

and it's by Ken Honda.

And in this book, he

describes so well the difference between

happy money and unhappy money. So what I

talked about earlier about, like, rent, mortgage, all those

things that. The adulting expenses.

Right. That's the unhappy money.

Right.

But the happy money is that stuff that brings me joy, the

stuff that I can afford to

do and put in my budget, that

brings me joy and fulfillment as a human.

And so. So I can't lose. Can't lose

that, uh, connection to the happy money as

well.

Yeah. Um, because I gave undo book

giveaways just about every quarter. And so Bernadette

Joy's book was recent. That's why I had a book.

I love it.

And. But happy money, I would definitely look into

giving that book away as well. It looks really

cool.

Yeah, yeah. Good.

All right, number four, what is your

favorite dish to make?

Okay, so kind of no surprise here. So

the no surprise part is the why.

So I have to say I love to bake,

but when we talk about food, food, my

favorite dish to make is lasagna.

And yes, I love italian food, but it's mostly

because of the process.

Right.

It takes time to layer

everything together, and it's just the

process that is mindful.

Right.

I kind of have to focus and do it. Right.

I do tend to go heavy on the meat, lower on the cheese,

but that's okay. You do?

You.

Right.

Um.

Um, but I

I enjoy the process, which is probably why I enjoy

baking, too. It's the. The measuring and putting together.

Awesome. Um, well, yeah, I

mean, I have to try that, uh, uh, that lasagna out

one day. You're like, hey, I

got an empty stomach.

I know. I made you a little something.

That's the self care that need happen.

Self care lasagna. I love it. It's a thing.

Yeah. Uh,

the last question of the show, which is, where

can we find out more about you?

Sure. So I have a website.

It's called, um,

myhopestation.com.

um, and my clinical practice is on there, but we also have events

and workshops, um, that I promote there. You can also

sign up for my newsletter on that website.

Um, I have a bi weekly newsletter

that has, um, it has things

for couples, it has things for, um,

individuals, and, uh, a review of journal

prompts. A lot of people don't journal because they're like, I don't know what to

write. So I help with that as well. And

then on my instagram, which is

I hope station as well,

is, uh, every Thursday I

do, I give you a journal prompt to just help you

out a little bit to get through proper

reflection on some key topics.

Thank you so much for coming on the show today,

Danielle. Greatly appreciating learning all

of the things that you have going on.

And, you know, I'm sorry, they didn't even give a

proper title. Doctor Danielle, that's okay.

That's, um.

And, you know, I appreciate everything that you're doing

for, not just for your clients, but also for the

community and continuously bringing

on new ways to kind of help us, uh, build

confidence, not just our money, but

beyond in our self care. So I just want to

say thank you.

Thank you.

And this for the audience for you guys are listening. If you got

anything wonderful out of this particular episode,

please make sure you go ahead on and, like, subscribe, share on

all of your social media platforms. And

if you're brand new to the show, again, I just want to say thank

you and go ahead on and subscribe. And you can also

subscribe to my newsletter at aboutthat

wallet newsletter. All right,

everybody, we out. Peace.

Bye.