Shownotes
There's a particular kind of calm that only comes after years in the trenches.
In this episode, Sam and Jen sit down with the brilliant Sara Briscoe from Rocaverde, an 18 year salon owner, country girl turned Sunshine Coast icon, and one of the most refreshingly real voices in the industry right now.
Sara has built, sold, renovated and rebuilt her way through nearly two decades of business, and she brings all of it to this conversation without filters, without fluff, and with a lot of heart.
They talk about what it actually looks like to build a salon from the ground up, from a tiny 50 square metre space called Blondies to the stunning Rocaverde, and now into the next chapter with a brand new build in the works. But this episode goes well beyond bricks and mortar. It gets into the stuff that lives underneath the beautiful feed and the full appointment book. The real cost of running a big team, why wages to sales ratios matter more than most people realise, and why so many salon owners are still undercharging and burning out because of it.
This is also a deeply human conversation about leadership, letting go, and learning to love the season you are in. Whether that is a season of growth, a season of stillness, or a season of just holding it all together while a new dream takes shape behind the scenes.
What we cover
- Sara's journey from country Queensland to building one of the Sunshine Coast's most recognised salons
- What it really takes to buy, build and renovate salon spaces over 18 years
- Selling a building you love and starting again from scratch
- Wages, pricing and why knowing your numbers changes everything
- The tiered pricing model that brought wages to sales back into a healthy range
- Hiring for the person, not just the skill set
- Why a bad culture fit can rock an entire business
- The apprentice conversation the industry needs to be having
- Learning to let your people go with grace and pride
- Why it is not that deep, and how that mindset shift changes everything
There is one thing that has stayed consistent across 18 years of building, selling, hiring, losing, laughing and starting again. And that is Sara.
This episode is a reminder that you are the constant. Everything else is just the season you are in.
Timestamps
00:00 Episode Summary
02:02 Podcast Welcome and Guest
04:54 Warts and All Growth
09:55 From Country to Salon Owner
12:42 Building Rocaverde Empire
17:29 Designing The All Space
20:43 Selling Up and Staff Trust
23:52 New Site and Pop Up Plan
30:08 Family Priorities and Burnout
33:49 Apprentices vs Freelancers
39:20 TikTok vs Instagram Comments
39:52 Wages Salon Misconceptions
41:03 Apprentice Pipeline Crisis
44:57 Pricing Value Perception
48:15 Raising Prices Without Guilt
54:02 Tiered Pricing Know Numbers
01:00:43 Hiring Culture Retention
01:06:05 Letting Staff Leave Well
01:09:34 Its Not That Deep Wrap
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Transcripts
[00:00:07] Samara: I think because you realize after so many years in business.
That the walls are not gonna fall.
[:[00:00:13] Samara: And as long as you can pay your bills, it's not that deep. It's all that matters. It's not that deep
[:[00:00:21] Jen: mirrors.
[:[00:00:29] Jen: Yeah.
[:[00:00:34] Samara: I hire for the person. Yeah. And I know I can change if they need their ability adjusted, but I hire for the person because that's who I spend my days with.
you get to the point where you're just like, no, no, no, no, no.
Because you also know that a bad person can rock your entire business.
[:[00:00:56] Jen: this is our catchphrase.
[:[00:00:59] Jen: your numbers. Every podcast. Every podcast
[:[00:01:11] Samara: I don't wanna look back and be like, we absolutely busted our asses Absolutely. For years and years and years, but we don't actually know each other anymore and we have no joy.
[:[00:01:22] Samara: Before we dive in, just a quick little love note from us. If this podcast has ever made you laugh, cry, think, or feel seen, please hit that subscribe button. It's the easiest way to keep the magic going and it helps us land more incredible guests for you.
Go on back, your girls, subscribe now and let's keep rising together.
[:[00:01:47] Samara: Good morning. How are you?
[:[00:01:49] Samara: Good.
[:[00:01:55] Samara: If no one heard that in the background, Richard just laughed. I'm not swearing this episode. So if I do, you can listen to that internally. I
[:[00:02:05] Samara: that is. I, that's like now you'll hear it in this podcast
[:[00:02:12] Speaker 12: Richard
[:I
[:[00:02:32] Speaker 2: did.
[:[00:02:43] Samara: Yes.
[:[00:02:45] Samara: Yes. That's our guest today.
[:[00:02:46] Samara: know.
[:[00:02:49] Samara: Welcome to Sara Briscoe from Rock Verde. Hi. We're so excited to have you.
[:[00:02:57] Samara: I've come and done a class. When you did, you and Jules did a class. And the space is, I think for anyone who hasn't seen the all the spaces, it's incredible. It's amazing.
[:[00:03:07] Samara: You love that. But you know, but obviously we know what's coming next. Um, so the space is incredible. So already I like was so in awe. I think you're an incredible colorist. I love watching anything you put out. But more so what I'm loving lately is. All of your content in different ways. I would like to ask you, is there a cheesy inside your shirt somewhere?
We've got a cheeseburger wrapped.
[:[00:03:33] Speaker: you
[:[00:03:37] Samara: I
[:[00:03:39] Sara: Now I've gotta touch on a swear thing though. I dunno if I can commit. Please swear. No, please swear.
Please swear. That's totally, but it's funny you said that 'cause I'm like, you know what Sara? You really need to like.
[:[00:03:50] Sara: Stop.
[:[00:03:51] Sara: the swearing,
[:[00:03:52] Sara: so, it's inspiring. Thanks. So if you can do it, maybe I should try and do this. I
[:Yeah. But yeah, even more so now, I have loved, even when you're putting up raw content and you've put stuff up lately that I'm like, yes, I feel this in my bones, that I was like, you have to come on, you have to talk about it. You have to talk about there's a new build happening. Like, there's just so much, and I think you're so knowledgeable.
[:[00:04:33] Sara: Yeah. It's tricky isn't it, for us, especially because most of us aren't developers or builders, or I'm lucky, I've got Dan, who's my husband, who's a builder, but um, we are often just.
Winging it.
[:[00:04:47] Sara: Aren't we? Yeah. Yeah. And there's so many variables and things when you do have a business or whether that's you're building a new salon or you're building a business that can sometimes sneak up and bite you right on the arse.
[:[00:04:58] Sara: Before you know it, and then
[:[00:05:05] Sara: Oh, well,
[:[00:05:10] Sara: is keep on.
[:[00:05:12] Sara: But I think it is important to share like the warts and all side of it, because I know when I was like, my salon's coming up to 20 years old this year.
[:[00:05:20] Sara: No, wait, it's not. I can't count.
It's Sorry. I'm a wacker.
[:[00:05:27] Sara: I'm tactile
[:[00:05:31] Sara: And then good happens. Um, but yeah, so like, sorry, it's 18 years, so 18 years in April. So we've grown from a baby, baby salon to this sort of.
Big beast that we've got at the moment. And like I have kissed some toads along the way. Yeah. Like I tell ya, like there's been some really tricky, awful gross times. Yeah. And I feel like, um, I'm at a place that listening to some of your podcasts and a guests that you've had, I can see that you guys are sort of in a similar
[:[00:06:01] Sara: Realm now. It's nice, isn't it, when you get to the other side and you still have all the same gremlins Yep. Coming at you, but you just are able to be more at ease and you're just like meh
[:We're about to have a meltdown and I'm just like, alright. And they're like, because you just get to this point where you just start to become more like, it's just life guys. You become
[:[00:06:30] Samara: about it, don't you? Yeah. Life and I don't wanna spend my, I think because you realize after so many years in business.
That it's not, the walls are not gonna fall.
[:[00:06:38] Samara: And as long as you can pay your bills, it's not that deep. It's all that matters. It's not that deep in the end. It's not that, it's not that deep. It's not that deep. I know you'll still, there'll still be clients and you'll still be fine. And everything's still, the world will still turn, the sun will still
[:Yeah.
[:Like there's lots on, we've got school, we've got like the two salons that we're building. We've got, she's happening everywhere. Council, there's one where
[:[00:07:13] Sara: did two minutes
[:[00:07:16] Sara: corner? At least it was a gentle swear. Yeah, it is. You know, it wasn't one of the big ones
[:It'll be so fun. Yeah, that'll be funny. Okay.
[:When you a baby business owner, you are stressed about the thing. Mm. Like you stress and you go deep. So we've got all these things that are happening and I just said to him, you know what, I'm not actually stressed about these things that we've gotta do.
It's more just like the, the tabs that are open and are ticking the things off stressed. Does that make sense? Yeah, it does. So like back in like you, you know, maybe perhaps even as recent as like six or seven years ago, you'd be stressed on like that thing. So say it was a staff member resigning or moving salons or whatever, you'd be ruminating and ruminating on that one thing, even though you can't control what's happening.
But now you're just like, it's more, you are more pragmatic about it and you're
[:[00:08:15] Sara: I'm a little bit stressful.
[:[00:08:18] Sara: Less and deep diving on every little thing.
[:[00:08:21] Sara: Yeah. Would you say
[:[00:08:25] Speaker 12: reach
[:Yeah. But it's like ruminating on when do I have the time? How do I do it? How do I fit? Where do we even start? Does it look like, what does it look like? You, it's, it's not the, it's not the big things. 'cause it doesn't matter if it doesn't get done, it's okay. But it's more so like, I know I want to do all this.
Where is the time coming to fiddle this? Yeah. When am
[:[00:08:48] Samara: let, I wanna break down journey. Okay, so let's go from the baby salon. Okay. Because I want to know, 'cause what you're doing now, I'm just so excited for, I'm like more share more, even though I'm not watching any content at the moment, I'm pretty much, almost completely off socials.
I'm like, I need to like put a popup when you write, when you say stuff, because I was like, I need to go through. And I find it so fun to watch stuff like this and watch other business owners, but I think the warts and all then stops us also from judging ourselves that we are not doing enough that someone else might be doing.
[:[00:09:20] Samara: mean?
[:[00:09:24] Jen: mirrors.
[:[00:09:32] Jen: same way,
[:Like we're all just humans trying to do things. So yeah. My journey. Okay, so from the start, let's rank it back all the way down to. When I, so I grew up in the country, um, when I was about 18 months old. My mom sadly had a car accident and she got a really bad, uh, acquired brain injury. So I went to live with my grandparents, um, who were very elderly 'cause I was a, a very late menopause baby.
So my brothers of much older than me. Wow. So I went out to my elderly grandparents in Charville and I grew up on a 30,000 acre cattle farm. So out in the middle of nowhere, like just nowhere. And I'm sorry,
[:[00:10:19] Sara: so country girl, like, um, out there.
And then I got my first job because being in a situation like that and in a town like that, sometimes you can be a bit naughty. And I was one of those, so I was a bit troubled. So. You know, testing the boundaries and stuff and ended up getting this job. And I always wanted to be a hairdresser or a beauty therapist, but in a shoe shop that also did Hair Rogue worked, isn't it?
[:[00:10:47] Sara: worked. I had that and another job 'cause I always had two jobs at once trying to make ends meet. And then, um, my grandparents were so wonderful, I was so lucky to have those guys. Like they, were amazing people. But after heading towards like later teens and you get more and more naughty and you just like the world's out there, I left home and moved to Brisbane and then wanted to get a hairdressing job and um, ended up living with my brother.
So I was outta home at about 16 or 17. And then I just begged this salon in, Brisbane. It was called Marcia Gibson's and it was iconic. I don't know if you guys can ever remember it. Were you, are you from, no. 'cause you're North Coast, but Little Chain Salon L'Oreal salon. Um, lots of really good training.
So I did my apprenticeship there. Eventually they relented and looking back, I'm like, I don't know how you got a job. 'cause you were naughty. I was a naughty girl, not I am me. But I did. And it was really great because we got lots of training. So one day, as you do when you're 19 or 20, you're like, do you wanna like to your best friend?
Do you wanna move to the Sunshine Coast? She's like, eh,
[:[00:11:56] Sara: So we literally did. So we packed up and then I commuted for a while and got a job in a really like fun cell on there. And then, ended up going overseas and having a gap here. Met my husband, we went over to Canada, had a break, come back 24.
I'm like, oh, do you know what? We're so broke. We've got no money. Do you know what'd be a really good idea? 'cause at this point I'm like, I don't wanna be a hairdresser anymore. I either wanna go to customs 'cause all I wanna do is hang out with dogs. Um. Or, oh, there's a salon for sale, let's just buy that.
It's great idea. So he borrowed some money on his parents and brought this salon. So Rocaverde, before that officially was called Blondies. So it was this little salon. It was I think 50 square meters. And um, looking back in hindsight, you're just like,
[:[00:12:42] Sara: dumb, stupid, like, what are you doing?
[:Yeah. Poster spray tan in the dodgy back room. Yes. Some like,
[:[00:12:53] Samara: can we fit into these fifties students
[:[00:12:56] Samara: we're doing that.
[:[00:12:58] Sara: same, same thing. So I had myself and apprentice we're in this little tiny space, at this point it's still called Blondies three months later, like that clientele.
And I like some of them. I still do to this day. A lot of them were just like a different demographic to what, like we were attracting. Yeah. Um, different hair. Like just different. Different. So anyway. It transitioned outta that, the salon, um, next door. Well, the shop next door became for sale three years later.
So we brought that like freehold. Let's go.
[:[00:13:30] Sara: Oh wow, wow. Yeah. Brought the freehold for that guy. So good. And then did that up. And then by this stage is definitely like operating more like Rocaverde was slowly gathering staff members and then the space next door become available, so we took over that.
[:[00:13:47] Sara: Yeah. So then we've had that, I can't even remember how long we had that, what, where did
[:[00:13:51] Sara: Green Rock. So when we were doing our gap year, when I was quitting hairdressing, we were at a place in Costa Rica and it was the surf beach. And that was just the name of the area. And I'm like, I'm gonna have a salon one day when I quit Customs and dogs cutting.
Like, and I'm gonna call it Rocaverde And we did. So, um, we had that space for, I would have to be 15 years maybe.
[:[00:14:19] Sara: Because we had our 16th birthday in the all. Yeah. So then, yeah, I said to my husband over COVID, I really wanna find somewhere else like it was, and we'd been sort of looking and I just like, we are really now invested in, he's a builder for some background in development and commercial real estate and I think it's really important to use your money from work to develop your wealth in other ways.
Yeah,
[:[00:14:43] Sara: So not using your career to get your wealth, but using it to help you gather wealth in different avenues. So I'm like, let's find another site. And we found this four pack of, um, shops. It took us a year to find that and we jumped through a million council hurdles and then we had the all. So we've had that four years.
Yeah.
[:[00:15:13] Sara: of that? Yeah. So literally the shop next
[:Yes. Yeah.
[:This is busy. Yeah. I'm gonna bump your rent up 15% or something for the next, rental period. Yeah. I think it was three years we'd been there and we were like, at that stage, like, uh, that was a big jump. So rent was going up 3% I think was the, like the market value CP for rent. Yeah, the CPI for rental increase.
So I was like, oh no, this little crappy old thing, like the toilets doors fallen off. It's old crappy building and. Like, you didn't even have a car place. Like we were getting in trouble from the neighbors running the air con. Like it was just, it was a bit of a, a bit of a shit heap. Um, so then that became available and we're looking around, we're like, we really need to try and start to invest.
And you guys would know being business owners that rent is quite a significant part of your costs.
[:[00:16:24] Sara: Yeah. So
[:[00:16:26] Sara: Oh hmm. That's a big one, isn't it? The wages. Um, I'd love to talk about that later too. Yeah, definitely. Because there's like a, a culture around hairdressers being scammers, but when you look at your wages bill.
[:[00:16:39] Sara: Um, but yeah, so we took over that space and then built it and eventually outgrew it and wanted to expand our portfolio a little bit. So we sold that and then. Built the all.
[:[00:16:53] Sara: Yeah.
[:[00:16:56] Sara: and then
[:[00:17:00] Sara: isn't it? It's so nice.
[:[00:17:01] Sara: proud of
[:[00:17:02] Sara: It's just beautiful.
[:[00:17:06] Jen: such
[:[00:17:07] Jen: cool concept. Such a cool concept.
[:Um, and Dan, basically, I'm really lucky 'cause I've got a husband who's a builder. Mm. So things are significantly less expensive Yeah. For us to do, compared to someone who's outsourcing that to someone. So keep that in mind. But, we found the site, we looked and looked and looked to start with. When I first saw it, I'm like, absolutely not.
This is not it. I'm not doing it. Yuck. So after like looking at it and coming back and then trying to see the vision of it, like I really, I really love spaces and like seeing what they could be. Mm. And then finding. Like their unicorn, like when they turn into their swan, like, um, that's something I really love doing.
And, we looked at this and I said, did Dan, Hey, do you reckon you could just like, rip the ceiling off it please. And then put like, make it kind of like shed like on the top. 'cause what we really wanted was a massive shed, industrial she type of thing. Yeah. But there's so many complications. Council parking, um, material change usages you can
[:[00:18:18] Sara: put, put a hair
[:[00:18:19] Sara: in the shed.
Yeah. But in, on the Sunshine Coast particularly, it's really strict. So they are, it's here trying to move gyms outta those industrial areas and they're making it really hard. Which if I was maybe a little bit younger and a little, little bit more YOLO and I wasn't purchasing that building and spending million, million dollars on ripping the roof off.
[:[00:18:37] Sara: Then
[:[00:18:40] Sara: been a little bit more, um, maybe open to seeing what happened. Council are really strict. And for most of those areas on the coast, you do have to apply from material change of usage, which can take up to a year. So by the time you purchase said place, yeah, you've gotta factor in that year and all of that around that before you can even have a go before you even know whether you can put your business in there.
So you just, financially it was just like stupid.
[:[00:19:08] Sara: yeah. Um, so yeah, they all is stunning. It's great. But now what's happened is because it is so nice is someone came along about a year ago and approached me, and this happens now and then, like people are always trying to buy it, but they come in quite, they wanted it more than we did.
So they've come in, it's a real estate agent, they're gonna do fabulous things with it. And um, I was like,
[:[00:19:34] Sara: they brought the premises and they're like, can we buy this off you? And Dan's like, yeah. Like, let's just investigate it. Let's see what happens. So. Before we know it, like I'm ringing my friends, I'm like, um, actually Jules, I'm like, Hey, what would you do?
Help? Like, trying to like do this in private as well.
[:[00:19:55] Sara: No.
[:[00:19:56] Sara: So on that, let's segue to that little town. Yeah. Before I'd even signed contracts, my staff had known. Really? So a couple of them did. Yes. So luckily for me, the culture in there is like, we are quite close knit.
Um, and what I tried to do was just take everybody independently as I could and just let them know it was happening. To put them at ease just to say, Hey, we've sold the building, not the business. Business. Yeah. The business is still fine. I'm, I'm, you don't have to worry about anything. This is me. I'm looking after logistics and everything.
You've got your jobs, it's gonna be fine.
[:[00:20:32] Sara: Um, but unfortunately, somehow someone had found out and gone to one of my. Um, friends who works in the salon and at a dinner party let her know what was happening before we'd even signed my contracts. Oh my gosh. Yeah. So it was very confronting and quite alarming and luckily, um, she is a grown woman and she knew that I'd come to her when I could.
Exactly. And she, she had enough respect for me to understand that I wouldn't do something like that, but she also lost sleep. So I guess it's just a lesson in not trusting the process, I suppose, and taking things into your own hands. Looking back, the lesson I learned from that was I would, next time, perhaps even talking about it, maybe go to some of my key team members and let them know,
[:[00:21:22] Sara: okay.
I just wasn't sure it was gonna happen myself yet, so I hadn't, didn't want
[:[00:21:31] Sara: Unease. Yeah,
[:[00:21:33] Jen: we've already talked
[:[00:21:34] Jen: how uneasy everyone is with unease. Yeah.
[:[00:21:36] Samara: Like so, you know, and it's not that deep.
It doesn't matter. We'll be in another building, we'll be fine. Yeah. But if you don't kind of say these things out there, even if you're thinking about it sometimes Yeah. They then ruminate on it. Yeah. You guys are good. I'm not selling the business. I'm selling the building.
[:[00:21:53] Samara: Yeah.
[:[00:21:56] Samara: You're all becoming real estate agents.
[:[00:22:00] Speaker: We're
[:[00:22:03] Sara: It probably is. They probably would be like, well, whatever. That's my number one for ideas. Okay. So real estate agents now, like I'd probably love it. Um, but yeah, so we've, we've sold, sold the all.
Um, basically they made an offer we can't refuse. And then it got us thinking about then finding a new site. So again, parking, right. So Oh,
[:[00:22:26] Sara: Isn't it an absolute. Pain. So, a salon with a team of our parking council
[:[00:22:32] Sara: where,
[:[00:22:34] Sara: they're just both like, ah, so we, started looking for a new site and you know, we're weighing up all different options.
We're like, should we go smaller? Like, should we do something more boutique? Like, what, what do we wanna do? We've got an opportunity here. Like what are we gonna do? Should we change it? Should we do something different? Like, do I want to go and buy a bus and put some dogs on it and take them around to like, do I wanna, do I want this anymore?
Like, yeah, here's your chance. Like, let's go. But instead, because we're not those people, we did look around, found a site and it was painful. So parking and like area usages.
[:[00:23:13] Sara: Were our pain points. So, oh, this place has got great parking, but it's not for that particular thing. So anyway, we. We've, we've searched and looked and searched and looked and we found this amazing site.
So it's actually really good. It's close to the city center. So for people that don't understand the Sunshine Coast, we've got Maroochydore our city center, and then the outskirts of sort of like Mooloolaba and like you've got all your beaches that sort of run along the coast. I guess where would your city center be?
Here would be surface maybe? Or what's your city? Do you have a city center? I don't know. Used to like where your council buildings used to be. The shops and the restaurants and
[:I don't, it's pretty much the Gold Coast is hard. It's everything's everywhere.
[:[00:24:04] Samara: Yeah. It
[:[00:24:05] Samara: that. There's pockets on the Sunshine Coast as wells. There's pockets. Yeah.
[:And originally, so we're like Right, sick, we've got this little, little house, let's renovate it. Not as much council troubles, but of course there's council troubles. Mm. Renovating it just wasn't right. And Dan's like, oh, I could just knock it over. And I'm like, attached to that idea. So then
[:[00:24:42] Sara: could then, nothing else could ever enter my brain.
So I'm like, we've gotta knock it over. We've gotta knock it over. And he is like, can't we just paint it? Can't we just get rid of his stuff and just paint it? Can't you just like,
[:[00:24:53] Sara: No, nah, he's gone. Keep
[:[00:24:56] Sara: Yeah. Like, I don't care. We can have donas like get this thing going.
So, um, we are knocking it over. And at the moment we're going through council, but we, Dan is today kindly meeting a design person for our popup salon too. So, so where is the up salon
[:[00:25:13] Sara: So,
[:[00:25:16] Sara: so we have to move out of our salon in May. I think it's like the middle of May, like call it the 15th, whatever.
I'm just plucking dates out now, but the middle of May. And in between now and then we've gotta build a new salon to stay in while we build that salon. So,
[:[00:25:36] Sara: do you wanna ask me or Dan? Um, because we've got different opinions on this. What? I'm like six month. We are 26, 27.
And hes
[:[00:25:46] Speaker 12: he's like,
[:[00:25:48] Sara: he's like, we're knocking the string over. We're not even through council yet.
[:[00:25:54] Sara: Yeah, yeah. I'm like, come on, do better. He'll be right.
[:For six to 12 months that the clients are in the new space with you. Exactly. Yeah. But also just be along for the ride guys. It's not going like, if we're gonna build you your dream, you gotta
[:[00:26:11] Sara: Yeah. The Don is gonna have to happen
[:Are you taking any of your things?
[:So our basins are, did you sit in the middle? Stunning. They're beautiful. And they were extremely expensive. I think they were close to $7,000 a pop. Wow. So those things are gonna last me. So trying to get new basins or anything into the budget with Dan is not gonna happen.
[:[00:26:56] Sara: Yeah.
[:[00:26:58] Sara: Exactly.
[:[00:26:59] Sara: And we have, so everything's gonna come with, so apart from that table, we've got a massive custom concrete table called
[:[00:27:07] Sara: that can't come. But
[:None of this has been cheap. None of this has just been, oh, we're just gonna put this together. Like your lives are built around spending all of the money you've got on these individual things. So people think, oh, it's just easy, you know, we're just gonna have a sell on. And you spent millions of dollars on different areas of what you're doing.
[:[00:27:33] Samara: And it's been a long process over a long period of time that everyone has to also, you know, as you said, you also had to get to the point where you're like, do I just wanna buy a bus with some dogs? Like Yep. It's, I still kind of do, it's so much,
[:[00:27:47] Samara: still might happen. It's, people might wanna buy the next space and then we'll have the dogs.
But you know, it's, you get to crossroads.
[:[00:27:56] Samara: And you've gotta be like, okay, what does this look for me? And how does it look? Because in other spaces you might have gone. Okay. This does look different now. I think this is, and that's okay too. Exactly. Just feel like, you know, people look from the outside and be like, it's all glamorous.
And you're like, I'm exhausted and there's so many tabs open and there's so many different things I can do. But you've got, obviously you and your husband have got just like such a good thing. Yes. So it's, you know, it's also, you're able to make these choices when you've got such a solid foundation personally.
[:[00:28:35] Jen: extremely
[:But on that he had to have time off work so he couldn't go into site like he's got, had back surgery, could, he just couldn't do it. And. Um, it was like probably for him a really tough time, but for me it was a great 12 to six months. 'cause I had a stay at home husband almost. Yeah. Although he was building.
But what we realized in that was that something changed for us, uh, personally and it was just about what really matters for us. Mm-hmm. And he's like, it is not making myself running ragg. Like we just do not ever wanna go back to how we were operating before that.
[:I don't wanna look back and be like, we absolutely busted our asses Absolutely. For years and years and years, but we don't actually know each other anymore and we have no joy.
[:[00:29:43] Sara: Where's our, where's our marriage? Where's our children?
[:[00:29:46] Sara: Exactly. And you said something really interesting on an earlier podcast 'cause I was having a big listen to it and it really resonated and it's like.
When your kids are babies, right? They're little, they don't understand. They don't understand, but all of a sudden they're conscious of when you are home. When you are not home.
[:[00:30:03] Sara: You can sit 'em on a play mat here and they can, when they're little and they could be in the corner and doing their thing and get a mate to push 'em around and the pram, those kind of things.
Logistically, it's, we know it's an absolute bitch, isn't it? Having a little baby in car seats and all of that stuff. But there is elements that are a little bit easier, and now that my kids are older.
[:[00:30:25] Sara: you know, like high school.
[:[00:30:27] Sara: They doing, doing things. I've got a 9-year-old, they know.
[:[00:30:30] Sara: They feel rejected.
Yes. When I'm not there. Absolutely. And they're
[:[00:30:40] Samara: not just that, it's also when you're on your phone, like it's also like that Oh, you are not importing. And I can feel myself. They say to me too, and I can, some mornings I have to be like, guys, I know you're talking to me, but it's seven 30 and someone is just called in six and I have a client there in 30 minutes.
Yeah. Like, I don't have the option right now. You just have to give me five because this is where I have to be tuned into for the next 10 minutes. It's hard. But then they're kinda like. I don't care.
[:[00:31:05] Stereo Mix: don't
[:[00:31:05] Jen: I've got a
[:[00:31:13] Jen: Should be,
[:[00:31:28] Sara: Get it done girl. Come on it.
[:[00:31:30] Sara: Very
[:Yeah. Gone into high school as well. Like your eldest. I love that. She, for the first time, she spends time with me here and she's really great. But I love that she actually can grasp the concept of how hard I work. Yes. Important. So it's not, it's
[:[00:31:50] Samara: it? It's not
[:[00:31:51] Samara: You know, before it was just mom's at work and it's more important.
Whereas now she's like. I understand what you do and how hard you work to give us the things that we want. Yeah. In life and to give us this life. But I'm also like girlfriend. I was at school from like six in the morning to like six at night. You are at school at exactly five minutes before you start and you're picked up three seconds after you finish.
Yeah. Calm your farm. Yeah. You've got it pretty good.
[:[00:32:21] Samara: Yeah. Back and white, eh,
[:[00:32:25] Samara: We didn't have a cleaner that came in and cleaned the salon, Dave.
[:[00:32:33] Jen: Oh no.
[:[00:32:39] Jen: oh, the apprentice thing?
[:[00:32:41] Speaker 12: it was, oh,
[:[00:32:42] Jen: Oh, it was, I was like, see, it really was
[:[00:32:44] Jen: that one was like, we, we literally messaged each other. Then we're like, I can't wait to unpack this.
[:[00:32:49] Speaker 12: I was like, get
[:So in my soul, and I'm in a, I am in a place where I've stopped hiring apprentices. Yes. Because I don't have the time. It's expensive and it's hard to train. Yes. Um, and I don't feel like I can give them my all, and I just don't, like, it was, it's easier for me to be on the floor.
[:[00:33:07] Samara: But it's, whereas I
[:[00:33:11] Samara: Yeah. So Jen has, how many do
[:[00:33:13] Jen: I have two, but there's only me and one other person.
[:[00:33:18] Sara: one each.
[:[00:33:22] Jen: end of by
[:[00:33:23] Sara: Yeah.
[:[00:33:29] Sara: Yeah.
[:[00:33:35] Sara: yeah.
[:[00:33:37] Samara: Yeah. I feel like I've done my juice, so I'm okay with, yeah. I've done a lot. I have raised.
[:[00:33:48] Samara: question.
Like, okay, so what's happening? Yeah.
[:Mm-hmm. Um, it is what it is. Yeah. Like I've got both a hybrid freelance salon and um, staff. Um,
[:[00:34:18] Sara: There's
[:[00:34:19] Sara: many people that
[:[00:34:31] Jen: yeah,
[:Yeah. It's not my team just get to walk in if their books aren't full that day, honestly. Yeah. They get to just chill. Like they're like, I see how much you have to do. Yeah. On the opposite side of this.
[:[00:34:43] Samara: But I think that also is important to say to business owners. There are also a whole crew that don't wanna free up there is and as, as much as there are ones that do.
Yeah,
[:[00:34:51] Samara: But as you said, who trains the next generation?
[:Like it's not a blanket. No. But mainly we are, we are hiring apprentices and making them into good hairdressers. Right? Yeah. And
[:[00:35:24] Speaker 12: just
[:[00:35:26] Sara: Mm.
[:I've had quite a few that are like, okay, now I'm ready for my next journey. Thanks for that. And then you're just like,
[:[00:35:40] Samara: oh, I just built that. And then that's hard 'cause you have to start again. Yeah. And the amount of like, and then you also feel the pressure to be like, you need to be here on your days off to train them.
[:[00:35:50] Samara: And you need to do that on your days off to train them. And you've gotta do this on your time away to train them. And it's like, we've gotta
[:Except you're paying them a senior. So much more rate. Yeah. They've got the Exactly. So then we found that we ended up having to do quite a lot of work. And it wasn't that they were bad hairdressers or anything like that, that they're
[:[00:36:14] Sara: they're just not, they
[:[00:36:16] Sara: the same as us. The adjustment.
[:[00:36:17] Sara: So you have to like Yeah. Culturally train them and then you have to unbreak some if they've got any bad habits. Yes. And then you're spending all this money. We do a shadow program. So, um, any new stylist, we don't let 'em touch a hair for at least four to six weeks, no hair. And then they have, they go into our emerging package, which is 'cause we're in a tiered system, but that's expending.
[:[00:36:40] Sara: Like that is expensive. Yeah. But then apprentices, there're a whole different level of like, I think it's all got its disadvantages and advantages, doesn't it? Yeah.
[:[00:36:50] Sara: But back to the like that format too, like with the apprentices and the the freelancers and um, I think my question was like, we got a lot of comments as you do on TikTok because it's just TikTok, it are just rogue, but whatever.
But
[:[00:37:12] Sara: oh, what's the punk?
[:[00:37:14] Sara: absolutely not.
[:[00:37:15] Sara: Yeah, you look like a pig.
[:[00:37:18] Speaker 12: in the world.
[:[00:37:22] Sara: is big.
[:[00:37:23] Sara: Like goodbye,
[:[00:37:26] Speaker 11: But
[:[00:37:27] Speaker 11: funny.
[:[00:37:28] Samara: on Instagram,
[:[00:37:31] Samara: no one would say anything like that because we can find their profile and go, yeah,
[:[00:37:36] Samara: Yeah.
[:There's so many wonderful salons. Like I've got a really great retention. I'm gonna touch some wood all quick.
[:[00:37:53] Speaker 11: quick,
[:[00:38:07] Speaker 10: Yeah.
[:We offer training, we do, we do all the things, but unfortunately there is people that haven't had that. But I think something that's a little bit toxic that was brought apparent with that is just comment, just attacking each other. Oh. Over being. And I just, it's really, it's not good. And like, why would you, why would you not wanna go freelance?
Or when you get paid crap or, and it's, and it's not true 'cause it's not true across the board. I'm sure there is salons that don't operate well. Like I understand that. I'm sure there's lots of people that have worked in those, but, um. I think
it's really like important to also just grasp the actual question is where our apprentice is gonna come from.
[:[00:38:56] Sara: I'm gonna get tired one day and not want my salon.
[:[00:38:59] Sara: You know, that's probably gonna happen. Like I can't do it. You will.
[:[00:39:03] Sara: Like, but we can't rely on a tiny percentage of the industry to make new hairdressers. Mm-hmm. So what, and it's not like we all have to go on wages and help and like bring up these apprentices, but what, what's the answer?
[:[00:39:18] Sara: What is the answer? So we need to look at it, I think as a community,
[:[00:39:23] Samara: cause then people
[:[00:39:25] Samara: as you said, then, you know, like you said, people are coming at being like, well why wouldn't you wanna be a freelancer and stuff, but I'm like, that then is attacking the salon. That's training you do to become a hairdresser.
Yes,
[:[00:39:36] Samara: Yeah.
[:[00:39:37] Samara: Um, and to take you on whatever path you wanna take on, there needs to be some respect in that. Yeah. Too, because without them you wouldn't have.
[:[00:39:45] Samara: your business at all.
[:[00:39:47] Samara: And eventually you are gonna get tired and freelancing is gonna become exhausting and you think, oh, I'm probably gonna need somebody to help me.
[:[00:39:56] Samara: And you are gonna wanna start building that too. What
[:[00:40:10] Jen: they've just decided to have that instead, which
[:[00:40:13] Jen: really
[:It's just so, it makes it very, very tough to have apprentices and the trade schools do a really great job. We've got a wonderful trade school that we work with. She comes on site and she's a lovely like hairdresser and she's a really good trainer. And, but how many apprentices finish and are ready to go out into the world and do their job without support because.
Like what happens to a lot of us as well is like when you first go out, like your mental health struggles as well. Oh, for sure. So like for someone just to leave school, and then you've got clients and you've got, now you've got TikTok and you've got Instagram and people get on and give you a blast if you give 'em the wrong color or whatever.
Like where's the support to enter? Like to let these little people fly into the world. So we need help, I think, to try and make it more attractive. Yeah. And it's just like, how could they cut that out? It's just, you know, but what's the answer? Like what do we do? Do we,
[:[00:41:17] Sara: change out,
[:You know what I mean? Yeah.
[:[00:41:36] Jen: But then you know, they're gonna quickly
[:[00:41:38] Speaker 12: that
[:[00:41:43] Sara: Yes, this, it's done. Because we've already been through a skill shortage before. Yes. And there is the option of hiring overseas, but like,
[:Yes, because the government then changed the point of entry for that. Which then in turn, like, 'cause I had that early stages of hiring staff. Like I'm a baby business owner. I'm an old woman who's been in the industry forever, but I am a, like, I've only had a business for two years now. So the, when they moved that point of entry to hire someone from overseas, it actually made her unattainable for me to take her on straight away.
[:[00:42:20] Jen: really expensive.
[:[00:42:21] Jen: Yeah. Expensive. Expensive,
[:[00:42:23] Jen: Expensive.
[:[00:42:25] Jen: Yeah.
[:[00:42:28] Jen: Yeah.
[:[00:42:31] Samara: the things. I
[:[00:42:32] Speaker 11: it.
[:[00:42:33] Samara: Efficient. I know. Like we were saying before, though.
You know, you were like, oh, wages, that's a whole nother thing, but
[:[00:42:38] Samara: People just have no idea.
[:[00:42:42] Samara: We were actually talking about this this morning 'cause you know, someone was like, oh, I want this from my daughter. Oh yeah. And it's like, you know, first ever hair color.
[:[00:42:51] Samara: You know, just
[:[00:42:53] Samara: just a few highlights.
And then all it's, it's a full head. It's a full,
[:[00:42:57] Samara: it's like with
[:[00:42:59] Samara: and down Supernatural. And it's like, but it's my daughter's hair, so I only wanna spend like two 50 most. And you're like, that's not even gonna cover my wages in the product. Yeah, babe. Like, and it's so hard. Now when we talk about this, even with my team, a lot, you know, people will inject their faces and not bat an eyelid, or they'll do something else and not battle an eyelid.
They'll spend $800 an outfit and not battle eyelid or go to dinner and spend, you know, four or $500 for dinner with friends and not bat an eyelid, but hairdressers, it's still west. I'm like, you are here. For five hours.
[:[00:43:30] Samara: I'm giving you something on your head that you wear every single day.
[:[00:43:34] Samara: I've also given you a plethora of beverages.
Yeah, yeah. And you've had this in a
[:[00:43:43] Samara: that, you know, you know, we're spending top dollar on wages so that you have the hairdresser that you want to look after you. But then still, we have such, this, such fight on our hands and we talk about it all the time.
And
[:[00:43:57] Samara: Yeah.
[:[00:44:01] Samara: Yeah.
[:[00:44:20] Jen: Yeah.
[:[00:44:22] Jen: Like
[:[00:44:23] Jen: lot of money. Like coming out. Did you, did you guys see the thing that Charlene did about. Like paying wages. Like when someone was like, you just need to lower your price. And she's like, you are right. I'll just tell my staff that, you know, because someone on the internet said that, um, I shouldn't pay you a fair and decent wage.
You don't need to pay childcare or your mortgage because someone think, you know, we, we don't need insurance. I'll just tell the banks we are not gonna pay our loans. Like no one, no, we don't need it because someone on the internet just said that we should charge less.
[:It's it's
[:[00:44:59] Samara: Yeah. Because as you said on things like TikTok, everyone rips each other down. So it's like one person's like, oh, I went to the hair salon and I paid four 50. Like, you paid four 50
[:[00:45:09] Jen: Oh my God. I pay like one 20 for a full head and a cut.
And if you're paying any more than that, that is just a rip off. Oh
[:[00:45:17] Sara: Yes.
[:She's like, yeah, well everything's expensive. And also why have a business if you make not a dollar?
[:[00:45:36] Samara: what's the point? It's like he
[:[00:45:41] Samara: profitable Yes.
[:Yeah. You know, like, like my, there's so many things that we could be doing for ourselves rather than doing bloody Sharon's hair.
[:[00:45:58] Sara: For free. Yes.
[:[00:46:00] Samara: You
[:Was just absolutely nothing like, and I'm like,
[:[00:46:21] Sara: am I doing this? We just pulled it apart. Yeah. We do have tiered pricing, so there's an opportunity for any budget to come into the salon. Right? Yeah. But, um, for the master stylist and every, everyone got a price of, we pulled it apart and put it back together.
Um, because our wages to sales were like 60 to 70%. Like it was nuts. Yeah. And I could not, I could not get it down no matter what we did. Mm. And I'm not gonna take money off the team.
[:[00:46:47] Sara: I'm not gonna not train them. Mm. So we were like, there's only one thing we can do here, and it's either gonna work or it's not.
And we had to go in with this like mental battle mindset of. Okay. So Sam, you can either do Carol's hair for free and be really stressed about it, and then potentially have a nervous breakdown because she's been a bit thingy about her foils and gonna come back in and have an adjustment. It's gonna cost me bloody, whatever.
[:[00:47:14] Sara: Um, or
[:[00:47:15] Sara: Sam, uh, Carol doesn't wanna come anymore 'cause we put her prices up and then you can use that hour to train. Mm, yeah. Or do social media or something. 'cause it's like it's moot point, right? Mm. If you are doing someone's hair for free or you've got a gap, I think everyone sees that busy thing.
And I was that person. I was, I'll put my hand up. I was that person. We don't wanna be busy.
[:[00:47:38] Speaker 11: But
[:And then you get cranky. And then they get cranky. And then you're
[:This will be the price. Yeah. And I did it the other day and then I, I had to do an adjustment. You
[:[00:48:11] Samara: So resentful. And I was like, I shouldn't have done that. That was me and not you. And now I'm not giving you the best version of me. 'cause I'm resentful because I've said yes to something that I shouldn't be saying yes to.
Yeah. And I'm not backing myself and not saying, and my team would've, and I'm not doing it. And it's ridiculous. Yes. Like it's even. I can go through our books now because our team was big and now we are tiny. Like I had 14 and now I have two.
[:[00:48:34] Samara: Yeah. It's
[:[00:48:36] Samara: Three including me. But yes.
So, and even that I had to get really comfortable with justifying it to clients. My whole team has moved to different places. My last ones on mat leave. My last two have moved to New Zealand and um, to Ipswich. So, you know, you go, you feel like, you're like, oh, everyone's gonna be looking at this thinking I'm not doing a good job.
And then you're like, how do I put my prices up? And then you get to the point where you're like, I gotta shake all of that off.
[:[00:49:00] Samara: You know, I know what this looks like. I know my value. I know what I want in my business. 'cause you get to those marks. Yes. And you've gotta make decisions and what that looks like.
But I'm now looking at going, there's all these people that aren't being charged. What? They should be charged. Yeah. Because we had a bigger team and we were able to do it, and now all of a sudden things have completely flipped.
[:[00:49:19] Samara: Yeah. And if it's not worth it, it's not worth it for us. That's right.
Like I said to the girls the other day, we all went home early and I was like, I'd rather be happy and broke.
[:[00:49:27] Samara: Than busting our ass for something that's not worth it. But do you
[:[00:49:30] Jen: what though? I actually don't think you're going to be broke.
[:[00:49:33] Jen: that's, I think we've gotta remind ourselves
[:[00:49:35] Jen: too.
[:[00:49:42] Sara: Yep.
[:[00:49:53] Sara: There's no
[:[00:49:55] Sara: No.
[:[00:50:00] Sara: No, no. And you're missing out on things like, you know, like kids and Yeah. I know some people don't have children. Maybe they've got pets, they've got partners, they've got friendships, they've got parents, you know, they've got life
[:Don't miss on life experiences. Yes.
[:I'm doing her hair. She already gets paid a lot. She always pay, already pays a lot. And she goes, put your prices up. I'll pay whatever you want me to pay.
[:[00:50:36] Samara: And I'm like, oh
[:[00:50:38] Samara: bless you lady. Love
[:[00:50:40] Samara: You know, like
[:[00:50:41] Samara: But I think we get stuck in the head of what people won't want instead of stuck in the head of what
[:[00:50:48] Samara: Yeah. Yes.
[:[00:50:49] Samara: So what did you find in the price rise? I really that our
[:[00:50:59] Samara: Yeah.
[:[00:51:07] Samara: it's really uncomfortable for.
[:[00:51:12] Speaker 11: me,
[:[00:51:23] Samara: same.
[:[00:51:26] Samara: I'm like, can somebody quote this for me, please? Yes.
[:[00:51:29] Samara: Yeah.
[:[00:51:32] Samara: They're like, I'll quote it and then you do it. I'm like, I'll just a
[:I've got a really wonderful manager. Mm-hmm. So she's a little bit more firm. She's a little bit more, um, pragmatic than I am. She's less fluffy, so she's like, right, let's do it. We pulled it all apart. We have a business coach who helped us as well. Um, and, but also too, anyone can do this because now we have who to help us.
Mm. Chat.
[:[00:52:16] Speaker 11: and
[:[00:52:32] Jen: She didn't like it. I'm going
[:[00:52:43] Jen: Yeah.
[:Holy shit. We need to look at this. Between that and wages, like no wonder that green line is. Very small on that profit to loss, but after putting our prices up and really dialing in our tiered system, so, um, for people that haven't done a tiered system, basically it's different prices across different, um, we levels,
[:[00:53:18] Speaker: Levels,
[:Mm-hmm. Um, so like your new entry level stylists, like, they're a little bit green. They still haven't, they're still maybe perhaps having a little bit more help. They're a bit slower. They haven't had any, they haven't made all the mistakes yet, so they're still, you know, adjusting, and also adjusting to their consults.
So they are quite significantly. Cheaper than say myself or a master stylist who
[:[00:53:48] Sara: it's columns full constantly. Can't get in for ages and whatever. But so we've got our wages to sales down from like, it was teetering on some weeks on 70%. Like it was high 'cause we pay very well. But, um, it's now we've got it right back down and it's like teetering on like in the forties and the fifties.
So January and February is always a little bit strange. And we are at the moment not replacing our maternity leave girls.
[:[00:54:16] Sara: Okay. For the moment because we're going into a small space mm-hmm. Until we get back out. So we're not, we're just sort of letting that happen and we're just not trying to recruit and just like letting our little apprentices come up.
So, um, yeah. So we, because it's looking at it, it's
[:[00:54:45] Sara: Yeah.
[:[00:54:46] Samara: Maintaining while all of the other, in the news going on behind the background with your team, it's just an easy, it's season of maintaining and calm.
Yeah. And then you go through growth seasons and you go through loss seasons and you just, you've gotta always tether on what that looks like. And I think really important, like you said, really important to keep coming back and being like, okay, where am I at Yes. In this right now? And do I need the demand of more team right now?
No. No, we don't. We've got enough going on and right now we can, if we know all of the things, all of the prices, make sure that, you know, those wages to sales is down. Yeah. Knowing that our costs are there, then we're good. Yeah. And we can just kind of study along and that's okay too. Yeah.
[:Like type A. Mm-hmm. Typically. Mm-hmm. Speaking. Um, so we don't often look at the numbers, but, and we, like you and myself, like we're quite emotional people. Mm-hmm. Like, you, you, you act with emotions, but I think it's really important to know your numbers mm-hmm. As well, because it does make,
[:[00:55:57] Sara: Know your numbers, isn't it? Know
[:[00:56:01] Sara: because you've gotta know your numbers because otherwise you're floundering around, you know, something's broken, but how do you fix it if you can't find where the crack is? And if you don't know your numbers, you don't know where that crack is, you don't know where that leak is, and you can't go and attack it and fix it.
[:[00:56:19] Sara: You know?
[:[00:56:20] Jen: So I think that's what saved us
[:[00:56:22] Jen: with that.
[:[00:56:39] Sara: Yeah. You can't,
[:[00:56:42] Sara: Yes.
[:[00:56:44] Sara: it.
[:You know, and it's wild. So many people, and I didn't, you and I probably for years went blind.
[:[00:57:01] Samara: Blind for so long.
[:[00:57:02] Samara: completely blind for so long. We doing it.
[:[00:57:06] Samara: Uh, I feel like it's busy. Hire someone. Dunno who I'm hiring, but like, let's go. It's so hey. And
[:Yeah. Oh, well sit there for a year until you leave. Like,
[:[00:57:21] Sara: don't do that. Yuck.
Eventually fuck off.
[:[00:57:30] Sara: Not it,
[:[00:57:38] Speaker 2: This is
So
[:[00:57:43] Speaker 12: Shut
[:[00:57:45] Speaker 11: Oh,
[:[00:57:55] Sara: Yeah.
[:[00:57:57] Sara: We love a fixer opera.
[:[00:57:58] Sara: You know, but
[:[00:58:01] Sara: very often.
[:[00:58:02] Sara: Oh. But we, I'm much better at that now. I dunno about you.
[:[00:58:05] Sara: So much better at being like, eh,
[:[00:58:09] Sara: Off with your head. Like if it's,
[:[00:58:20] Sara: No.
[:[00:58:23] Sara: No thank you. No, thank you. Um, it's like, yeah, it is. It's a tricky one, isn't it? With, with hiring people and, . I think it's more tricky when you need to exit someone, but something that I've been like looking at a lot lately, just getting more and more like, um, involved with my peers and their businesses and offering help and like, just sort of like retention is something that I think that our, our salon's really strong with.
Like retention of staff. I mean, so, um, retentions of team. I'm looking at it, I'm like, what is it that's changed for me since the start. And I've always had really wonderful team members. Like I said, there has been a few, like frogs, toads, toads. I haven't turned into princesses. Um, but like I feel like you've gotta really look at it and.
Like, what? How do you stop hiring dickheads? Yeah. Or perhaps are you their dickhead? Mm-hmm. It it, it works both ways, right? Mm-hmm. So I've really been trying to dial in on what's the ethos, like, what is it, like, what, what makes our culture so great? And I think something that I learned a few years ago in a troublesome time when I was going through like, um, a really tricky time in business when I was pregnant for the first time and I basically had two other staff go get pregnant at the same time.
Um, my head stylist was like, oh, see, I'm going overseas three months,
[:[00:59:53] Sara: no staff gone. And I panicked, tired, and I just looked at the resumes. I'm like, you are good. Wow. Look at that. And then instead of hiring the person, so
[:[01:00:04] Sara: looking at a more leading and hiring someone that's kind. Like really looking at the personality strengths.
Yeah. And we actually do a personality test now when we hire, so.
[:[01:00:17] Sara: that. Yeah. So we go in, um, it's just this little online one. We picked it up with, it's just like a, a little check box and it tells you like where you sit at, whether you're a driver or whatever. Yeah. And we sort of know what works now.
And typically all the, the team members that haven't worked out are this particular type of personality. Mm. So knowing, like, and it's not attack on them, it's just that they're different and they don't align and you can't change someone's personality.
[:[01:00:45] Sara: But you can get someone who's willing to learn and make them a really good hairdresser.
Mm. Like you can make them a good team member if they're the right heart.
[:[01:01:02] Speaker 4: beautiful
[:So calm. Like the most calm I've felt and the most chill that I'm just like, I, then you get worried to hire again because you're just like,
[:[01:01:17] Speaker 12: I know,
[:And that's who my team spends the days with. Yes. And that's who my clients spend their days with. Yeah. And it's gets hard as you lose your people to like moving on with their lives and then you wanna support that because they're your people and they're going to move on. Yes. Because it's their lives too.
Yeah.
[:[01:01:45] Samara: well. Well, and they have a journey as they have a right to
[:[01:01:46] Samara: That you get to this point where you're just like, oh no, but like, how do I find more people like this? And they do exist, but it's hard because you get to the point where you're just like, no, no, no, no, no.
Because you also know that a bad person can rock your entire business.
[:[01:02:17] Samara: Oh man, I have the
[:[01:02:30] Samara: neither.
[:Yes. I see them more than my family.
[:[01:02:37] Sara: I need to love you. I need to know that you are kind and I do not wanna have the ick when I'm in the back room with you. Yeah.
[:[01:02:45] Sara: I to be able to go out there and be
[:[01:02:50] Sara: Yeah.
[:Yes. And just being in so much joy and I just walk away and I'm like, I just love what I do. I love the people I'm with. Yeah. And I, you know, when you know these people have got your back
[:[01:03:03] Samara: Too, like they've got your back. That it's just a different, I completely, I'm completely feel exactly the same way.
There's no way I could walk in here and be the boss. Yeah. Like sometimes I'm like, that's a boss. They're the boss today. Yeah. Like, but I think you've really gotta over time. Yeah. Find where that boundary lies to that you're not giving too much of yourself away because of the fact and it's not giving too much of yourself.
I think it's giving too much of everything that
[:[01:03:28] Samara: The business has. 'cause you want to keep them happy.
[:[01:03:30] Samara: think you've gotta find
[:[01:03:33] Samara: But yeah, I just, I don't, I actually don't think I'd have my quality of life that I do and how much I love being a business owner. I agree. For this long.
[:[01:03:41] Samara: Had I not been able to just enjoy and love my team, but that's why it takes, the hurt is a lot more when someone leaves or something happens.
Or do
[:[01:03:50] Sara: feel like that anymore though? 'cause I feel like as I'm getting like more mature, I don't have that hurt. I have like joy for them as well. Like no one wants that message.
[:[01:03:59] Sara: Hey, there's a coffee. I always just write straight back. Absolutely not. No.
[:[01:04:05] Sara: not having a coffee.
[:[01:04:16] Sara: Yeah.
[:Yeah. If she'd trained. And then she came on and I just fell in love with her and she's the longest apprentice I've had after finishing her apprenticeship. Yeah. And she's like, so, and I'm like, she's standing at the front desk. She's like, so I'm like, when she's like, maybe like. M February. I'm like, oh, okay.
And then,
[:[01:04:44] Speaker 12: then
[:[01:04:45] Sara: Yeah.
[:[01:04:55] Jen: so nice.
[:Yeah. So then I said to her, they're fully booked. She's like, look, what I'm gonna do is just do two days a week. And I was like, that's perfect. She'll come down, stay overnight, and then go back. And then they messaged and said, Hey, we've got space now. And I was like, I want to be that person that doesn't tell her that they
[:[01:05:15] Sara: every pretend I didn't get that message.
[:She like, well, I was like. Don't want you again, go and have an interview. And then I texted the day of the interview and said, good luck. You've got this. Go for it. Because that's how I wanna feel Now, like you said, that's how I wanna feel. And I think you take it as a less of a threat against your business.
When you have those people that are generally, they love you too. Like, she's like, whatever you need, I'm here to support you and vice versa on the other side. And isn't, that
[:Yeah. Like I've played a very small role in that, but like,
[:[01:06:06] Sara: I played a role, you know, like it's so, so wonderful seeing, um, people thrive Yes. As well. And I think looking at it from that lens versus like, no, what am I gonna do? What am I gonna feel? Like, how am I gonna do it? But
in business too, you've gotta look at it.
There's like, and you don't realize when you are, um, new to business and perhaps only be operating a few years or you've haven't had many people leave and go, but there's one. Thing that stays in that business and that's you. Mm.
[:[01:06:33] Sara: That's all you need. That's all. Like, you know, for 18 years, has this been one thing that's been in that business that's consistent and that's me.
Mm-hmm. So now I'm confident that I can tackle anything and pivot. Anyway.
[:[01:06:44] Jen: there. And we, I've literally just said
[:[01:06:46] Jen: Right?
[:[01:06:53] Speaker 11: I was
[:Yeah. And you're like, as long as I'm here, the walls will be fine.
[:[01:07:03] Sara: Someone said to me once, you've gotta be okay with people leaving. They're leaving, they're leaving, they're leaving, but you are leaving. Like everyone's leaving. Yeah. Everyone is leaving. So just accept that they're leaving. And once you have the acceptance.
[:[01:07:17] Sara: think you're much more at ease, aren't you?
[:So like why you, it's not that deep.
[:[01:07:32] Samara: it's just a business that one day won't exist.
[:[01:07:35] Samara: that's the catchphrase for 2026. Just, it's not that deep,
[:[01:07:39] Samara: Like, it's just like in everything. It's not that deep. Yeah. You're,
you'll be all right. It's not that deep. And let yourself feel the things.
Absolutely. But don't let yourself sit in things. Yeah. You don't through them fast. You
[:To action things. Yeah. So like by taking a breath and just being like, man, well that's that. Next, what do I do?
[:[01:08:08] Sara: What's my steps? So giving yourself an allowance to be like. Okay, here's the problem. Like Yep. And then moving. Yeah, like, let's go.
[:Like personally? Yeah. I'm still going through things with he who shall not be named. And you know, I realized for a long time in that divorce I sit, I was sitting in it and letting it affect me. Yeah. And now I'm just like, oh, it's affecting me. How can I shut that off? Oh, I'm just gonna shut my phone off for 24 hours.
And actually just like,
[:[01:08:46] Samara: Not, yeah. Ruminate on how I'm gonna pick this up and see if there's a response. Yeah. And then when I see the response I'm like, eh.
[:[01:08:54] Samara: Eh. Like, but if it was in the moment
[:[01:08:57] Samara: it is. It's full blown terror. Yeah. And huge and everything. And it takes over your life and then also makes you sick.
[:[01:09:06] Samara: It can
[:[01:09:14] Samara: Me too
[:[01:09:17] Samara: Yes.
[:[01:09:20] Samara: you had a crystal ball Yes. You would realize that everything is okay.
[:[01:09:24] Samara: You know, and if you just like, it will be okay in the future. 'cause it always, always, it's always okay.
[:[01:09:29] Samara: And if you get to that point where you're, we're just guys,
[:[01:09:34] Samara: Oh, sorry. We're just like, this is our out, it's all gonna be okay. But what I really need you to do to be Okay, is to cut this off now.
So what we're getting to here is there's gonna be many more conversations. Sara. Yes. Sara needs to come like, um, we can come up to you Totally. Yeah. Oh, let's do that. Yeah.
[:[01:09:49] Samara: Yeah.
[:[01:09:51] Samara: We can come visit you. Um, but I just. And for anyone that's not following you we'll put it all in the show notes.
Yeah. But they should, because I think what you have to say is just so important and
[:[01:10:03] Samara: Yeah, please. It's great. Please
[:[01:10:06] Samara: Yeah, keep, keep saying it. Keep doing the things. But even on the other side of your personal journey and how you exercise, how you take care of yourself, how you nurture yourself in other ways, I think it's so important that it's, you know, you are such an icon for other people to be looking at it for those things of, you know, yeah.
What business owner looks like, what mom looks like, those things. And you know, we all stumble. It all sucks. We all are putting some things up some days that we're like, I don't feel like this at all, but we're just gonna post that.
[:[01:10:37] Samara: I think you're doing an extremely amazing job. Thank you. And I just love watching your journey in all areas
[:[01:10:46] Samara: drive to the door, to drive to the Gold Coast with us out
[:[01:10:50] Speaker 4: school.
One would
[:Pretty
[:[01:10:55] Speaker: but
[:[01:10:58] Samara: Thank you.
[:[01:10:59] Speaker 12: look,
[:[01:11:03] Stereo Mix: I'm,
[:Also, if you have any more questions, please send them through. We'll just like DM Sara and be like, tell us more things. Tell us this.
[:[01:11:20] Samara: but this is like a part one. I feel like there's de
[:[01:11:24] Samara: Yeah, for sure. Thanks so much guys.
[: