Shownotes
Navigating Client Termination in Coaching: Challenges and Best Practices
Summary
In this episode, John and Angie delve into the difficult topic of terminating coaching clients. They discuss their experiences and strategies for handling delicate situations where clients are not making progress, being disrespectful, or not showing up for sessions.
The conversation emphasizes the importance of managing these scenarios with care and diplomacy, maintaining professionalism, and knowing when to set boundaries. They also tackle the nuances of working with diverse clients and setting expectations upfront.
This episode provides valuable insights for coaches on handling challenging client dynamics while maintaining their integrity and effectiveness.
Keywords
coaching, client termination, difficult conversations, coaching relationships, client engagement, respect in coaching, no-shows, coaching strategies, coaching clients, coaching challenges, coaching, client commitment, refund policies, client relationships, coaching values, coaching boundaries, emotional intelligence, coaching challenges, coaching professionalism, coaching insights
Takeaways
Sacking clients is a sensitive issue for coaches.
Confrontation is often more daunting in our minds than reality.
Handling client termination requires professionalism and care.
Difficult conversations can lead to important coaching moments.
Respect is crucial in the coach-client relationship.
No-shows can be a form of disrespect that needs addressing.
Creating a supportive environment encourages client engagement.
Acknowledging client struggles can help them feel understood.
It's important to check in with clients who are disengaged.
Coaches should not feel guilty about terminating unproductive relationships. A true coach cares about the process, not just the payment.
Client commitment can be enhanced through thoughtful policies.
Checking in with clients shows genuine care and can foster loyalty.
Refund policies can impact client commitment and accountability.
Navigating difficult client relationships requires clear communication.
Coaches must recognize when to terminate a coaching relationship.
Values and beliefs can clash in coaching, requiring careful management.
Setting boundaries is essential for maintaining a healthy coaching dynamic.
Emotional intelligence plays a crucial role in coaching interactions.
Coaching is a human experience that requires adaptability and understanding.
Chapters
00:00 The Unexpected Firing
00:14 Handling Difficult Conversations
02:40 A Real-Life Coaching Nightmare
04:35 Balancing Professionalism and Client Retention
05:24 When to Terminate a Client
12:11 Dealing with No-Shows and Disrespect
16:10 Encouraging Client Accountability
18:17 Commitment and Payment in Coaching
19:00 The Importance of Client Follow-Up
21:15 Handling Refunds and Client Commitment
25:42 Navigating Cultural and Personal Differences
31:30 Setting Boundaries and Managing Expectations
37:08 Concluding Thoughts and Listener Engagement
Want to contact the show? You can leave us a voicemail. It's free to do and we might feature you on our next episode. All you need to do is go to https://speakpipe.com/thecoachingclinicpodcast and leave us your message.
Would you like to get coaching from John or Angie? Here's how you can contact us:
John's LinkedIn Profile or go to PresentInfluence.com
2023 Present Influence Productions Coaching Clinic: scale your business, acquire high ticket clients & master coaching skills 35
Transcripts
John,
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John: Angie.
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Angie: you're fired.
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John: What?
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Angie: You're fired.
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Oh,
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John: can't fire me, I quit.
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What is this?
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What's this about, Donald?
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Is this?
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Angie: that's funny.
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Let me ask you, have you ever had
to terminate a coaching client?
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John: Yeah, sure.
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Angie: So how did you handle it?
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John: Carefully.
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But it sounds like a great
topic for this episode.
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So let's get started.
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Angie: All right, sounds good to me.
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Yeah, it's a tough one.
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John: It is, gosh, sacking your
clients it's sensitive, especially
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for someone like me, who really does
not like confrontational situations,
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that, that feels very confrontational.
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Angie: John is the T Rex from Toy Story.
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I told like confrontation.
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John: I don't think, I don't know,
do people like, I guess there must
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be people who actually do enjoy
confrontation, who maybe get a thrill
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from it, but I'm not one of them.
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But I probably do what most people do
in that situation of catastrophizing
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it a little bit and thinking it's
going to be way worse than it actually
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So that, I think that's always
the worry with these things.
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We always, nearly always, imagine
these things to go far worse
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because we're having to have
a difficult conversation with
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Angie: Yeah.
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Yeah.
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I think that what you said though is
important like the first thing you
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said when I say How did you handle?
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How do you handle it?
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Your first answer is carefully.
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And you do want to handle it carefully
because A, You have a responsibility as
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a coach to be the professional, I think.
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But also, you don't want people
running around and like defaming
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you in any way Oh, she was such
a, this, and he was such a, that
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John: I've had that story.
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Angie: I do.
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Yeah.
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So, tell us about that.
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Tell us a little bit
about that crazy story.
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We don't have to get all
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John: for sure.
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I didn't actually fire that client.
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That was Just an awkward situation,
but it did come from having to have
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a difficult conversation because
the client wasn't showing up,
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the client wasn't taking action.
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And I was very frustrated working
with this person of like week after
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week, showing up for the calls
at least, but not doing anything.
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I felt like we were wasting our time
that she was wasting her time and
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money and I probably could have put
it a little more tactfully than I did,
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but she didn't take it Well, let's
just say that but I discovered I think
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probably weeks afterwards that she
under a pseudonym had gone onto various
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Facebook groups that were connected to
the organization that I was working with
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and posted all sorts of crap about me
particularly and about the company and
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anyone she knew who was involved in it
and was really slating the company and
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me personally, left, right and center.
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And it's, this got back to the company.
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who then informed me and said,
do you know who this person is?
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Do you recognize this name?
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And I said, no, but there's
something familiar about this.
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And when I went and dug a little deeper
into the social media profiles oh, I
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know who this is and realized it was
that client under a different name.
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And so it did eventually get sorted
out, all the nasty posts got taken down.
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I didn't feel like the company
handled that incredibly well, if
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I'm being honest about it, because
they assigned her to another coach.
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She should have been fired as a
client for doing that kind of thing.
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She should have just
been fired as a client.
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But they they instead tried
to save her as a client.
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Angie: I think that's a good point.
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So here's the thing.
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Let's differentiate things.
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If you're working, if you
have your own business, right,
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you do what you want to do.
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And we'll talk about some
best practices there.
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If you're working for a coaching company.
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Obviously you have a job there and
there's, you have to handle things
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maybe differently than you normally
would have because of course they're
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just looking to, let's just smooth
it over and retain that client.
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We don't want the bad press.
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We want to keep
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John: don't want a refund.
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They don't want a refund either.
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So yeah, there's
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Angie: No, exactly.
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Exactly.
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The next, who wants to refund?
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Nobody wants to refund.
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But so I think there's a different
set of guidelines there that you
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don't really have control over.
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To be honest, right?
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The company does.
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But if you're a coach that's starting
out or you're a coach that's been
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around for a minute, you must have, if
you've been around, had that moment.
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So let's talk about what kind of
scenarios, like what why would we want
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to terminate a contract with a client?
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What are some of the reasons?
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So you already mentioned that, they're
showing up, but they're not showing up.
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They're not doing any of the work.
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For sure, that requires
a difficult conversation.
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I love those conversations though,
and it's not always with the
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intention of termination, right?
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John: Right.
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Angie: Hey, you know what?
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Can we take 10 minutes today?
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Cause I want to talk to you.
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Oh, sure.
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Angie.
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What's going on?
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I just want to know are you
still serious about these two?
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We first started working together.
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You mentioned these goals, do you
feel like you're actively working?
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So it really becomes a coaching moment
because sometimes people don't really
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know that they're not showing up.
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So you really do have to be a check in.
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You cannot be aggressive and just go,
I'm going to show them no, because
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then you'll have zero clients for sure.
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John: Let me just be clear that the
situation I had, we had several of
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those kinds of coaching moments where
we were trying to really get to the
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bottom of what was actually going on.
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And ultimately, It became like
banging my head against a brick wall.
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I think that became personally, I think
where it personally affected me was
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feeling that I didn't at that time have
The I think I felt like I was lacking
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some level of coaching knowledge in how
to deal with this or how to get a result
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How do I get a result with somebody
like this who really is resistant to
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taking any kind of action whatsoever?
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But and I think that's where it pushed
me to, I think the only way we're going
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to get anywhere is if I get really
lay down the law and say, this is it.
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Either do this stuff or
don't bother coming back.
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So we'd had, it had
been a build up to this.
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It wasn't just like one session.
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I'm like, all right, we're done.
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You're out.
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Yeah.
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So you see, those, but I think
generally those situations are
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exceptional that you would find
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That someone would even pay for
coaching and coming to it and
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really not even try to take action.
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And again, when you are working for
yourself, hopefully you're going
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to have had some kind of onboarding
and introduction and discovery with
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the person to know whether they are
the kind of person who takes action
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or whether the kind of person who's
going to be the Difficult to work
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with at which point, we've talked
about that before in discovery calls.
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You can stop it before it gets that far.
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Angie: It's so funny that you mentioned
that because very early on in our
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journey here at the coaching clinic,
I remember talking about one of the,
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one of the clients that I've had where,
I mean, he was absolutely impossible.
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Impossible.
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And I did not terminate him.
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But I have to be honest when we
had our discovery call and our
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clarity session, he was honest.
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He was like, I just can't
seem to get out of my own way.
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And so I think as a coach, we all
kind of approach things with like
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with nothing but positivity okay,
that's definitely a pain point.
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We need to work into that.
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And we should do that.
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I will tell you with certainty
that it was so frustrating
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for me that I met that time.
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I did work.
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For myself and for another company
and I went to the director and said,
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listen to a couple of these calls.
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Cause I don't know what else to do.
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I didn't know what else to do.
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And she came back and she, I think she
had listened to 3 of our sessions and
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she was like, we need to get rid of him.
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He's never going to do this.
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And I was like, okay.
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And I was thinking you're
going to get rid of him.
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No, I had to.
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So it was really, it was like
uncomfortable and he dug his heels in
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and I was, very diplomatic as tough as,
we make me out to be here on the show.
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I was very diplomat, don't laugh.
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I was very diplomatic and I was honest
and said, I know you're struggling
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and I'm struggling to help you.
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I was very honest and transparent
because, we have broken things
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down into the smallest of pieces
and still that becomes huge.
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And he was like, no, I need to keep
doing this, even if it's not working.
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And I was like, okay, far be it
for me to tell, but I also had
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said then what's the direction.
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So I'm not going to get into all
of that, but it really isn't just
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about it's so frustrating for me
because I know everybody out there
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that has coached has had frustrating
clients or frustrating sessions.
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We have to manage ourselves on that.
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We have a responsibility to that.
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So when is it appropriate?
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And I really think it's an
individual decision, right?
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Because when I'm ready to terminate,
I might say, for example, prefer
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somebody and say, you know what?
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I think I might not be the right fit for
you, but I can refer you to somebody else.
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Are you interested?
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And I might refer that person to
John and John might knock it out
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of the park with them because
sometimes it's just truly not a fit.
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John: would you refer someone who
was that challenging to work with?
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Because I
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Angie: I might.
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Yeah.
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John: I might, but I would probably
check in with the person I was
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referring them to first and say,
Hey, look, I've got this person.
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Do you feel up to that?
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Do you feel up to that?
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Angie: This really smells.
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Smell it.
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No, of course I would do the check in.
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I wouldn't just be like giving
out phone numbers and stuff.
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I would have a consult with the
coach or whomever I was working with.
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Referring to and say, listen,
I haven't had any luck.
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This is what I've tried.
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These are the challenges.
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Do you want to or not?
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And I would probably do that before I
mentioned referring to the client just
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in case the person said, absolutely not.
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I'm not interested.
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Right.
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Cause now I then have to go back
and say to the person, I'm sorry,
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they don't want you either.
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I'm sorry.
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I'm giggling today.
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My coffee has no bourbon in it.
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I swear,
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John: Let me ask you.
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Let me ask you something then.
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When it comes to potentially firing
clients what would be the main
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thing you'd probably fire them for?
230
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Angie: disrespect.
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I think the one thing I can't
work through with a client is
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if they're disrespectful to me.
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Right.
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Meaning are they cursing?
235
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Are they cursing at me or are
they just cursing in general?
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Cause I do have some people
that are like, Oh, I'm sorry.
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I said that F bomb.
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Is that okay?
239
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And I'm like, have at it.
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But if they're cursing me out because
they're having a bad day or they're
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frustrated, that is my, you're done.
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We're done.
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John: Yeah, I'd say that's like the
unforgivable sin in coaching, coachee
244
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relationship is to disrespect your coach.
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And I would say something that
perhaps comes into that to a lesser
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extent, but is still part of it,
is people just not showing up.
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What we would often just call no shows in
the coaching world, where they book the
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session and they don't show up for it.
249
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And, or they stop booking the sessions.
250
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I mean, the.
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The second one, maybe a little different.
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You're going to reach out and say,
Hey, look, you need to put your
253
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sessions in check in, you're going
to maybe follow up a few times, but.
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Maybe like me, you might have had
those situations in the past where
255
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you get those people who just go
go incommunicado and they will
256
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not respond no matter what you do.
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You have to terminate the relationship,
but what choice do you have?
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They have essentially already done that.
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And so I'd say in terms of terminating
or firing your clients, the times where
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that has happened the most has been from
People who I either just aren't showing
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up at all or booking in the sessions
or booking in the sessions and then no
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showing the sessions leaving you sat
there waiting for them a bunch of times,
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which I think is very disrespectful.
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I will just say no.
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So sometimes the.
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Angie: sure a different
form of disrespect.
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But I think my perspective on that
might be a little bit different and
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I don't, I'm not saying that for you.
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It's obviously you're
referring to like habitual.
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Right.
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No shows and not just the one time and
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John: that's what off.
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Angie: correct.
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So to your point, one of the things that
I consider is when they stopped showing
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up, whether it was the no show or lack
of booking, what was happening in our
276
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sessions, because that will happen.
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What my experience has been is, that'll
happen when We hit a pain point when it
278
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really we start to do the work Don't be
surprised if people start to not show up.
279
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It has happened.
280
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I mean, I wouldn't say it's been common
for me But when I hit that it's like when
281
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I strike gold or I hit the you know I hit
the water main and it starts to gush a
282
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little bit They start running for cover.
283
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It's not uncommon.
284
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So I will usually send out a note
or two to them if I don't hear
285
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from them and they're not booking
and say, Hey, I understand.
286
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And I go right to it.
287
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Letting them know that I know our last
session was really whatever powerful,
288
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painful, intense, whatever the word is.
289
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But I think that's what we need, right?
290
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So if you want to continue
this change, understand.
291
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Now we just work through it.
292
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Right.
293
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We already ripped off the bandaid.
294
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Let's keep going so that you can.
295
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And usually that acknowledgement gets
them to, but so I don't terminate quickly.
296
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I
297
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John: No, I wouldn't either may depend
on what point the client is in, because
298
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there, there are also situations,
especially like we've talked about auto
299
00:14:59,452 --> 00:15:03,222
renewals before we've done an episode
on that for anyone who wants to go and
300
00:15:03,222 --> 00:15:07,922
check that, but I've over the years,
I've many times worked with clients
301
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who are in auto renewal programs.
302
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So very often.
303
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They will actually go incommunicado
rather than have a conversation
304
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with you about why they may be
thinking they don't want to renew.
305
00:15:22,662 --> 00:15:28,532
And Because again, that fear of
confrontation comes up and they don't
306
00:15:28,532 --> 00:15:30,962
want to have to tell the coach, actually,
I'm not going to renew with you.
307
00:15:30,962 --> 00:15:35,552
So it's a difficult for them, a difficult
conversation that they probably imagine.
308
00:15:36,062 --> 00:15:39,172
They probably imagine the coach
is going to probably do what the
309
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coach will do and say Why is that?
310
00:15:40,942 --> 00:15:44,712
Let's talk about it and maybe
try and convince them to stay.
311
00:15:45,062 --> 00:15:47,122
But that's not really
necessarily the coach's job.
312
00:15:47,232 --> 00:15:50,672
Of course, we want our clients to
stay in coaching, but only if they
313
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want to and only if they're going
to benefit from it, not because we
314
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want to get their money off them.
315
00:15:55,352 --> 00:15:59,082
So I think that's definitely
something that starts to come up.
316
00:15:59,132 --> 00:16:00,572
I've seen in group coaching as well.
317
00:16:00,572 --> 00:16:04,722
People just start to not show
because they haven't taken the
318
00:16:04,722 --> 00:16:06,192
actions and they're embarrassed.
319
00:16:06,512 --> 00:16:09,912
It's, this is more of a group thing, but
it does happen in one to ones as well.
320
00:16:10,282 --> 00:16:13,832
They're embarrassed about not having
done all their actions, commit, not
321
00:16:13,832 --> 00:16:15,112
follow through on all their commitments.
322
00:16:15,112 --> 00:16:18,112
And they don't want to have to
confront that in front of the group.
323
00:16:18,702 --> 00:16:22,392
And most people will deal with that,
I always try and frame it up on those
324
00:16:22,412 --> 00:16:27,032
calls about how important it is that
we're not looking When we check in on
325
00:16:27,032 --> 00:16:28,582
your actions, it's not to judge you.
326
00:16:28,582 --> 00:16:30,042
It's not so you can beat yourself up.
327
00:16:30,042 --> 00:16:33,102
If you didn't do things perfectly,
it's to check in and see where's
328
00:16:33,102 --> 00:16:34,142
the room for improvement.
329
00:16:34,152 --> 00:16:34,802
How do we grow?
330
00:16:34,802 --> 00:16:36,212
Because none of us are perfect.
331
00:16:36,262 --> 00:16:38,562
And we're all looking for growth
and development, and we're all
332
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here to support each other on that.
333
00:16:40,122 --> 00:16:43,282
So even if you don't get everything
done, or even you have the worst
334
00:16:43,282 --> 00:16:46,022
week and you're thinking, Oh crap,
I didn't get all my actions done.
335
00:16:46,362 --> 00:16:47,612
Show up anyway.
336
00:16:48,137 --> 00:16:51,567
Because that's growth, showing
up even when it's difficult
337
00:16:51,677 --> 00:16:53,817
is growth, is development
338
00:16:54,177 --> 00:16:56,707
Angie: I think us having
grace for clients.
339
00:16:57,477 --> 00:17:00,277
It teaches them to have
grace for themselves, right?
340
00:17:00,327 --> 00:17:05,547
To not be so judgmental, to understand
that everything is a process and that
341
00:17:05,797 --> 00:17:07,507
we're not looking for the perfect outcome.
342
00:17:07,507 --> 00:17:11,827
And even if it doesn't, even if you do
fall a little short from a goal, if you
343
00:17:11,827 --> 00:17:15,617
left the starting line, you're already
ahead of where you were when you got here.
344
00:17:15,617 --> 00:17:21,442
So I'm, I, to your, To that little
point, I am always very Hey, I always
345
00:17:21,442 --> 00:17:23,021
tell, I say this, I'm not your mama.
346
00:17:23,311 --> 00:17:24,342
I'm not here to judge.
347
00:17:24,342 --> 00:17:27,492
I'm not here to tell you to wag
my finger and say, okay, little
348
00:17:27,492 --> 00:17:28,942
Johnny, you didn't do your work.
349
00:17:29,522 --> 00:17:31,782
I go straight into, and they're shocked.
350
00:17:32,162 --> 00:17:35,202
I think that there's a shock
there like what she didn't get
351
00:17:35,202 --> 00:17:36,842
angry or disappointed in me.
352
00:17:36,852 --> 00:17:38,332
And I'm like, all right, so let's see.
353
00:17:38,342 --> 00:17:39,012
What did you do?
354
00:17:39,012 --> 00:17:39,582
What worked?
355
00:17:39,912 --> 00:17:40,892
I don't even think about it.
356
00:17:40,892 --> 00:17:45,152
I don't even talk about, unless it's
like a, habitual thing and it's excuses.
357
00:17:45,232 --> 00:17:46,212
Then we talk about that.
358
00:17:46,212 --> 00:17:46,392
But.
359
00:17:46,527 --> 00:17:50,517
But that isn't necessarily the space.
360
00:17:50,517 --> 00:17:52,947
I think, did you ever have,
I wanted to ask you this.
361
00:17:52,947 --> 00:17:57,697
I was thinking about this earlier because
you have coached coaches as I have.
362
00:17:57,977 --> 00:17:59,107
I've trained coaches.
363
00:17:59,147 --> 00:18:04,487
And when I talk about this topic
with them, it is hilarious to me.
364
00:18:04,917 --> 00:18:09,897
How many I have a couple of
people that go, what do you care?
365
00:18:10,287 --> 00:18:15,067
Cause for me, I don't know about you, but
my coaching programs are paid in advance.
366
00:18:15,507 --> 00:18:16,987
It is not a pay as you go
367
00:18:17,397 --> 00:18:18,397
John: we've talked about that.
368
00:18:18,437 --> 00:18:20,387
Yeah, I'm paying in advance as well.
369
00:18:20,437 --> 00:18:21,777
Always paying, always pay up front.
370
00:18:22,047 --> 00:18:22,407
Yeah,
371
00:18:22,447 --> 00:18:22,857
Angie: Yeah.
372
00:18:22,947 --> 00:18:26,567
So I've had people say
to me, what do you care?
373
00:18:26,817 --> 00:18:29,227
If they show up or not, what do you care?
374
00:18:29,237 --> 00:18:30,717
You're getting paid anyway.
375
00:18:30,727 --> 00:18:31,477
And I'm like Whoa.
376
00:18:32,087 --> 00:18:33,257
You and I need to talk.
377
00:18:33,877 --> 00:18:36,857
Like I will definitely have a
little side conversation there.
378
00:18:37,217 --> 00:18:41,457
Because the process, if you're a true
coach at heart, yes, you want to get paid
379
00:18:41,497 --> 00:18:43,977
for what you do, but it's I'm a surgeon.
380
00:18:43,977 --> 00:18:46,257
I'm not going to just do surgery
on people and take their money
381
00:18:46,257 --> 00:18:47,777
and say, here, I cut you open.
382
00:18:47,777 --> 00:18:50,537
I sewed you up and I told you I did
something and I didn't do anything.
383
00:18:50,982 --> 00:18:52,552
That's not how I do business.
384
00:18:52,652 --> 00:18:54,652
I'm not just here to take people's money.
385
00:18:55,032 --> 00:19:00,062
I'm here to get paid what I'm
worth for doing the job that I do.
386
00:19:00,252 --> 00:19:00,622
Right.
387
00:19:00,722 --> 00:19:01,792
But have you ever had that?
388
00:19:02,002 --> 00:19:03,342
Have you ever had people say that to you?
389
00:19:05,332 --> 00:19:08,782
John: No but I look at it, but
I have, it has crossed my mind.
390
00:19:08,792 --> 00:19:09,942
It has crossed my mind.
391
00:19:09,942 --> 00:19:10,782
Julia, it's just you.
392
00:19:11,042 --> 00:19:13,122
I don't think anyone's
ever said that to me.
393
00:19:13,272 --> 00:19:14,292
I don't recall if they did.
394
00:19:15,007 --> 00:19:18,637
But the difference of, I
always think about, I often
395
00:19:18,637 --> 00:19:19,667
think about gym memberships.
396
00:19:19,667 --> 00:19:22,817
Maybe there's a reason for that, but
there's a different, most of us have
397
00:19:22,857 --> 00:19:26,227
probably had memberships in different
gyms over time, and maybe had different
398
00:19:26,227 --> 00:19:27,657
experiences about how they kept it.
399
00:19:28,087 --> 00:19:31,927
And so, and maybe we had different levels
of commitment to showing how show up.
400
00:19:32,197 --> 00:19:34,907
Some gyms are just going to take your
money and don't care if you show up or
401
00:19:34,907 --> 00:19:37,707
not, but there's going to be those, but
there's going to be those places that
402
00:19:37,707 --> 00:19:43,907
will actually send you a message, an SMS,
WhatsApp or text or call you even if they
403
00:19:43,907 --> 00:19:47,227
haven't seen, if they see that you haven't
actually been to the gym in a while.
404
00:19:48,147 --> 00:19:52,037
That feels like a level of care that
I think probably coaches could manage
405
00:19:52,037 --> 00:19:54,017
to do as well for their clients.
406
00:19:54,467 --> 00:20:00,497
And and I do think one of the things
that any, this is possibly more the
407
00:20:00,497 --> 00:20:03,817
case for people who have their own
business as coaches, but I think it's
408
00:20:03,867 --> 00:20:07,187
just as important, even if you're
working with a coaching organization,
409
00:20:07,197 --> 00:20:12,897
if you're able to follow up with people
and check in with what's going on.
410
00:20:13,087 --> 00:20:14,302
I think that's one of the, yeah.
411
00:20:15,612 --> 00:20:18,842
One of the biggest differences that
shows people that you care as a coach
412
00:20:18,912 --> 00:20:20,532
and that you're not just about the money.
413
00:20:20,582 --> 00:20:25,252
And I do think it's something we probably
all don't do as well as we could.
414
00:20:25,802 --> 00:20:28,572
And not saying that you need
to say you don't want to be
415
00:20:29,002 --> 00:20:30,252
their mother or their parent.
416
00:20:30,632 --> 00:20:34,602
You don't need to be that you're not their
caretaker, but checking in with them.
417
00:20:34,712 --> 00:20:36,672
That's something a little different.
418
00:20:36,722 --> 00:20:39,462
We check in with our friends, we
check in with people we care about.
419
00:20:40,372 --> 00:20:42,242
If we care about our
clients, and hopefully we do.
420
00:20:42,467 --> 00:20:46,887
Otherwise, we're just working
with them for the dollars,
421
00:20:46,887 --> 00:20:48,797
otherwise, then check in with them
422
00:20:49,692 --> 00:20:50,182
Angie: Right.
423
00:20:50,287 --> 00:20:53,097
John: Give yourself the opportunity
to fix that up and set that up.
424
00:20:54,132 --> 00:20:56,811
I think even if they're going through a
challenging time, they're far more likely
425
00:20:56,811 --> 00:21:02,922
to develop a longer term loyalty to you
as their coach if you show that you care
426
00:21:02,922 --> 00:21:06,552
about them in between sessions or when
they're having a bit of a challenging
427
00:21:06,592 --> 00:21:09,152
time that they don't even feel that
they can talk to you about just yet.
428
00:21:09,572 --> 00:21:12,902
I don't know, that's my feeling on
it because I think otherwise they
429
00:21:12,902 --> 00:21:14,642
will be the ones wanting to fire you.
430
00:21:15,702 --> 00:21:19,162
Angie: well, listen, and to that,
to, and to that, I, I was thinking
431
00:21:19,162 --> 00:21:22,542
this, because we've talked about
refunds and things in the past.
432
00:21:23,042 --> 00:21:27,462
And one of the things that is
in my contract and it's worded,
433
00:21:27,722 --> 00:21:29,992
appropriately, and I discuss it outright.
434
00:21:30,032 --> 00:21:32,092
I don't just say, here's the contract.
435
00:21:32,092 --> 00:21:35,412
If you have any questions, I say,
I will be sending you a contract.
436
00:21:35,647 --> 00:21:39,417
The important part of that contract
that you must, and I make them initial.
437
00:21:39,667 --> 00:21:44,277
There's a special initial just
for that particular part of it.
438
00:21:44,327 --> 00:21:46,597
And it's that I don't do refunds.
439
00:21:48,147 --> 00:21:50,417
I don't give refunds unless it's me.
440
00:21:50,427 --> 00:21:53,467
Unless it's I, I haven't
had to use it, but if it's a
441
00:21:53,467 --> 00:21:56,377
circumstance that is, from my end.
442
00:21:57,057 --> 00:22:01,347
Whatever it may be and why it may
be personal reasons like, Oh, I
443
00:22:01,357 --> 00:22:02,717
had to have surgery or something.
444
00:22:03,117 --> 00:22:07,547
I will give a refund, but
I do not give refunds now.
445
00:22:08,777 --> 00:22:09,507
Why?
446
00:22:10,037 --> 00:22:14,587
Because I don't want in the back of
somebody's mind, not because I don't
447
00:22:14,587 --> 00:22:15,607
want to give them the money back.
448
00:22:15,647 --> 00:22:20,117
Not because I'm trying to hold their
money hostage, but there's a higher
449
00:22:20,117 --> 00:22:26,407
level of commitment when somebody has
that feeling of, I have to do this.
450
00:22:26,847 --> 00:22:30,807
So if they've committed to the
financial piece, for some reason
451
00:22:30,827 --> 00:22:35,057
that tends to keep them more like,
all right, I've committed to this.
452
00:22:35,057 --> 00:22:35,997
I have to do it.
453
00:22:36,127 --> 00:22:41,247
And I should do it well because I didn't
get, she's not charging me 50 a session.
454
00:22:41,257 --> 00:22:43,487
So I should make the most of this.
455
00:22:43,827 --> 00:22:46,717
Now that doesn't mean that I
wouldn't have the conversation.
456
00:22:46,717 --> 00:22:51,367
If somebody was really unhappy, I might
say to them, you know what, that's fine.
457
00:22:51,367 --> 00:22:54,552
But I'm not, there's no, I'm
not giving you your money back.
458
00:22:55,042 --> 00:22:59,992
So again, different conversation, but
I think it helps to keep the sessions
459
00:23:00,002 --> 00:23:05,122
honest and keep people a little bit
more committed because that's it,
460
00:23:05,302 --> 00:23:11,412
John: would look there's the same, I'm
no refunds to a point and for one off
461
00:23:11,412 --> 00:23:13,632
sessions that I sometimes do with people,
462
00:23:13,682 --> 00:23:14,112
Angie: Oh yeah.
463
00:23:14,112 --> 00:23:16,452
Yeah,
464
00:23:16,562 --> 00:23:20,682
John: again, unless it's something that
I've messed up, but for clients who
465
00:23:20,682 --> 00:23:23,632
are maybe, who are probably going to be
working with me for longer than that,
466
00:23:23,652 --> 00:23:28,867
I will generally say if in the first
month, either of us decide that this
467
00:23:28,887 --> 00:23:33,207
isn't really working out or getting us
where we want to be, then sure, I'll give
468
00:23:33,207 --> 00:23:36,997
you a full refund, we part as friends,
shake hands, and no hard feelings.
469
00:23:37,017 --> 00:23:37,707
Is that okay?
470
00:23:38,467 --> 00:23:42,087
That usually sets people's mind up,
because we do want to take away some
471
00:23:42,087 --> 00:23:46,347
of the risk for them, and I think that
can Be a decision that stops people
472
00:23:46,357 --> 00:23:50,597
getting over the line with sales in
terms of being a coach that if you
473
00:23:50,597 --> 00:23:53,587
can take away some of the risk for
them thinking, okay I've actually
474
00:23:53,587 --> 00:23:55,127
got a bit of time to figure this out.
475
00:23:55,147 --> 00:24:00,127
Even after my decision is made,
it's so rare because usually.
476
00:24:00,492 --> 00:24:04,042
It usually in my experience, the
decision that they want to quit
477
00:24:04,222 --> 00:24:07,702
comes up around renewal time, not
in the first month of coaching.
478
00:24:08,132 --> 00:24:11,302
So if it isn't working out, then
it does mean that you've messed
479
00:24:11,302 --> 00:24:12,922
up in the discovery process a bit.
480
00:24:12,922 --> 00:24:14,382
And there's some stuff to learn from that.
481
00:24:14,412 --> 00:24:17,082
I, what could you maybe change
in the discovery process
482
00:24:17,082 --> 00:24:18,152
to figure that out better?
483
00:24:18,552 --> 00:24:22,612
But I would say as well, it
is a good way to help get some
484
00:24:22,612 --> 00:24:23,512
of the sales over the line.
485
00:24:23,512 --> 00:24:26,482
So you may not want to go
completely down the track of going
486
00:24:26,492 --> 00:24:29,422
no refunds whatsoever under any
circumstances, each to the right.
487
00:24:30,792 --> 00:24:31,832
Angie: no, listen, knock on wood.
488
00:24:31,832 --> 00:24:32,892
I haven't had to.
489
00:24:32,982 --> 00:24:36,812
And honestly, if I go into the
first session, And I go, Oh, my
490
00:24:36,812 --> 00:24:38,422
gosh, what is happening here?
491
00:24:38,422 --> 00:24:41,602
This is not the person I spoke
to during my discovery call.
492
00:24:41,912 --> 00:24:44,752
I might say, okay, but I
haven't had that experience yet.
493
00:24:45,082 --> 00:24:46,962
And you can't prepare
for every experience.
494
00:24:46,962 --> 00:24:53,352
But I think what it comes down to is us
being able to as coaches having the the
495
00:24:53,352 --> 00:24:58,687
professionalism to know when it's time
to terminate a relationship, a contract
496
00:24:59,027 --> 00:25:04,397
with somebody and wanting to make sure
that we do it as diplomatically as we
497
00:25:04,397 --> 00:25:08,617
possibly can, for a multitude of reasons,
just because simply it's the right
498
00:25:08,617 --> 00:25:12,247
thing to do, whether it's the, not the
right fit or we talked about earlier,
499
00:25:12,247 --> 00:25:17,847
somebody is being, really disrespectful
things that we're not willing to
500
00:25:17,847 --> 00:25:19,847
tolerate, or they're just not showing up.
501
00:25:20,632 --> 00:25:25,092
No, those are to me, those
that's grounds for termination.
502
00:25:25,352 --> 00:25:25,872
So,
503
00:25:28,352 --> 00:25:32,532
John: Yeah, I can't really think of
any other situations off the top of
504
00:25:32,542 --> 00:25:36,082
my head where I would be like, all
right that, that's not gonna work out.
505
00:25:36,082 --> 00:25:38,952
It's not going to fly in the
coaching relationship, but that
506
00:25:38,952 --> 00:25:39,892
doesn't mean that there aren't any.
507
00:25:40,012 --> 00:25:40,902
What would you say?
508
00:25:41,712 --> 00:25:42,202
Angie: no.
509
00:25:42,202 --> 00:25:45,212
And something just came to me
cause I had a client years ago.
510
00:25:45,212 --> 00:25:49,652
I didn't terminate the client, but
I had to set the record straight.
511
00:25:49,942 --> 00:25:54,922
Let me just say that this particular
client, he was not from America,
512
00:25:54,942 --> 00:25:56,212
which doesn't matter, right?
513
00:25:56,232 --> 00:25:59,822
That's not the point, but he
had very, and this is fine.
514
00:26:00,157 --> 00:26:05,057
Very different perspectives
about the woman's place
515
00:26:05,742 --> 00:26:06,092
John: Okay.
516
00:26:06,247 --> 00:26:07,177
Angie: and that's fine.
517
00:26:07,267 --> 00:26:08,687
Heritage and all of that.
518
00:26:09,197 --> 00:26:12,807
So he didn't intentionally disrespect
me, but he would always say things
519
00:26:12,807 --> 00:26:15,537
like you wouldn't really understand
that because you're a woman.
520
00:26:17,157 --> 00:26:19,387
And it wasn't things that
I couldn't understand.
521
00:26:19,437 --> 00:26:20,887
I don't know, dare I say this, John?
522
00:26:20,937 --> 00:26:22,867
No, I wouldn't understand
about having a penis.
523
00:26:22,867 --> 00:26:23,627
Cause I don't have one.
524
00:26:24,202 --> 00:26:24,522
John: Right.
525
00:26:25,052 --> 00:26:27,502
Angie: But it was, did I just say that?
526
00:26:28,382 --> 00:26:30,502
I don't think that's going to
make it to the air, but okay.
527
00:26:30,752 --> 00:26:35,032
But anyway, but he would say
things that I could very have, I
528
00:26:35,032 --> 00:26:37,772
could very easily have related to.
529
00:26:38,252 --> 00:26:41,552
And he would just make this like
these little you wouldn't get that.
530
00:26:41,552 --> 00:26:43,152
You're a woman, you're
a woman, you're a woman.
531
00:26:43,382 --> 00:26:46,032
And finally I just, and he was a
great client, but I finally said
532
00:26:46,032 --> 00:26:47,742
to him, let me ask you a question.
533
00:26:48,262 --> 00:26:49,542
Can we pause there for a minute?
534
00:26:49,907 --> 00:26:52,477
And I took it in the moment
instead of going back and
535
00:26:52,477 --> 00:26:54,187
saying, you said this 20 times.
536
00:26:54,687 --> 00:26:56,287
Why do you think I
wouldn't understand that?
537
00:26:56,287 --> 00:26:57,127
Because I'm a woman.
538
00:26:58,047 --> 00:26:59,997
And he thought he had this great.
539
00:27:00,167 --> 00:27:03,887
And I came back and said are you
okay with a teaching moment here?
540
00:27:04,567 --> 00:27:05,307
Yeah, sure.
541
00:27:05,367 --> 00:27:10,267
And I said here was my experience
with that as a woman and true story.
542
00:27:10,277 --> 00:27:14,642
And he was like, So his habit was
to just be like because you're
543
00:27:14,642 --> 00:27:19,262
a woman now that term that could
have warranted like serious like
544
00:27:19,282 --> 00:27:23,672
termination because I was feeling and
I was like, I have to shut that down.
545
00:27:23,782 --> 00:27:24,032
Right?
546
00:27:24,032 --> 00:27:27,392
Because I'm being somehow and
I hate this flippant word.
547
00:27:27,822 --> 00:27:31,882
Triggered because I was like, it
was like sending up my antenna gone.
548
00:27:31,882 --> 00:27:32,292
What?
549
00:27:32,612 --> 00:27:34,792
Why do you think that I
wouldn't understand that?
550
00:27:35,182 --> 00:27:39,442
But he understood in that moment,
the redirection, but, let me show
551
00:27:39,442 --> 00:27:44,062
you that I do understand and I said,
and I asked him, I said, do I have
552
00:27:44,062 --> 00:27:46,992
permission to call you out the next
time you say, because you're a woman?
553
00:27:47,562 --> 00:27:48,632
And he was like, yeah.
554
00:27:48,847 --> 00:27:52,837
And I mean, it happened a lot, but
I didn't terminate him because I
555
00:27:52,837 --> 00:27:56,387
knew it really wasn't coming from a
place where he was being judgmental.
556
00:27:56,857 --> 00:27:58,637
It was just a belief system.
557
00:27:58,807 --> 00:28:04,227
So I, as a coach needed to understand
it, even though I didn't agree with it.
558
00:28:04,737 --> 00:28:05,637
Does that make sense?
559
00:28:05,937 --> 00:28:07,377
But another coach.
560
00:28:07,477 --> 00:28:10,597
I know coaches that I shared that story
with when it was happening and they
561
00:28:10,597 --> 00:28:13,247
were like, screw him, get rid of him.
562
00:28:13,247 --> 00:28:15,237
And I was like, no, I don't think so.
563
00:28:15,667 --> 00:28:18,387
So it could be though,
something like that, where
564
00:28:18,387 --> 00:28:20,327
there's just such a difference.
565
00:28:20,797 --> 00:28:23,137
Of opinion that you go, I can't do
566
00:28:23,267 --> 00:28:26,137
John: look, I think I've probably said
to you before that I've worked with
567
00:28:26,147 --> 00:28:28,977
clients from all around the world,
from all sorts of different religions,
568
00:28:28,987 --> 00:28:34,797
some of them with beliefs that would
not, probably not be compatible with
569
00:28:34,797 --> 00:28:40,447
us being friends in the real world, and
and there's some cultures and religions
570
00:28:40,447 --> 00:28:43,097
are particularly homophobic, and that's
what I'm really talking about there.
571
00:28:43,527 --> 00:28:47,697
And And does that mean I can't
work with people who are like that?
572
00:28:48,267 --> 00:28:51,847
I absolutely can, unless it starts
to come into conflict with my values.
573
00:28:52,397 --> 00:28:55,837
That's where it starts, and that, that's,
it, that actually starts to come into
574
00:28:55,837 --> 00:28:58,587
the whole thing of disrespect as well,
because even if they don't know about
575
00:28:59,287 --> 00:29:03,967
your life personally making assumptions
that you're, that you think a certain
576
00:29:03,967 --> 00:29:08,577
way, or that you naturally agree
with them That's disrespect as well.
577
00:29:09,082 --> 00:29:09,542
Angie: sure.
578
00:29:09,682 --> 00:29:10,472
Absolutely.
579
00:29:10,992 --> 00:29:11,702
Absolutely.
580
00:29:11,742 --> 00:29:16,732
And again, in that particular case, that
was probably one of the most obvious.
581
00:29:16,762 --> 00:29:20,532
I mean, I've had people make little
comments and I've had women make comments
582
00:29:20,532 --> 00:29:22,632
that, and I will call them out the same.
583
00:29:22,632 --> 00:29:23,442
It wasn't about me.
584
00:29:23,472 --> 00:29:27,632
They might say something about men or,
a corporate ladder and it's still a
585
00:29:27,632 --> 00:29:31,312
man's world and all the things and I
might have to check in on that as well.
586
00:29:31,322 --> 00:29:35,582
So it's not one sided but I do think
that it's important to recognize what
587
00:29:35,582 --> 00:29:41,852
you said is that sometimes we do interact
with people who to 1 degree or another.
588
00:29:42,192 --> 00:29:45,322
Have a very different value
and belief system than we do.
589
00:29:45,372 --> 00:29:45,792
And
590
00:29:46,182 --> 00:29:46,492
John: Yeah.
591
00:29:46,922 --> 00:29:49,482
Angie: remember me talking to you
about, the client who identified
592
00:29:49,482 --> 00:29:53,772
as a vagina, like I, I coached
that woman for a long time.
593
00:29:54,282 --> 00:29:55,582
Look at you and your face getting red.
594
00:29:56,312 --> 00:30:01,002
John: Because, I don't know how
many, is there any more genitalia
595
00:30:01,002 --> 00:30:02,842
you'd care to mention on the episode
596
00:30:03,142 --> 00:30:05,452
Angie: My God, I don't
know what to say today.
597
00:30:05,502 --> 00:30:05,912
All right.
598
00:30:05,922 --> 00:30:07,522
You just need to edit that stuff out.
599
00:30:07,602 --> 00:30:10,362
I don't know what to say, but that
was a real thing that happened.
600
00:30:10,402 --> 00:30:10,832
I guess
601
00:30:10,852 --> 00:30:13,222
John: It was a real, it was
a real thing that happened.
602
00:30:13,722 --> 00:30:15,872
We're getting all of
it in today's episode.
603
00:30:17,702 --> 00:30:22,262
Angie: you didn't know that this
was going to be 10th grade about,
604
00:30:22,372 --> 00:30:23,022
John: I should have.
605
00:30:23,102 --> 00:30:23,585
I should have known.
606
00:30:23,585 --> 00:30:24,010
I should have.
607
00:30:24,010 --> 00:30:24,717
I should have.
608
00:30:24,717 --> 00:30:28,387
Before we even started but look, it's
it's one thing I've talked before
609
00:30:28,387 --> 00:30:32,567
about now I've had the slightly
problematic or people who have some
610
00:30:32,597 --> 00:30:38,027
have deeper issues going on that
sometimes come out in very inappropriate
611
00:30:38,037 --> 00:30:40,117
ways on things like coaching calls.
612
00:30:40,667 --> 00:30:42,537
That's a very different matter.
613
00:30:42,637 --> 00:30:44,377
Angie: Or during a podcast episode.
614
00:30:44,607 --> 00:30:46,577
John: watch a podcast recording.
615
00:30:46,957 --> 00:30:49,987
It's a very, it's a very different
matter that needs to be handled a bit
616
00:30:49,987 --> 00:30:53,367
differently, but you are going to sack
them probably because it's just not
617
00:30:53,377 --> 00:30:57,277
appropriate for you to be working with
them when they need something else.
618
00:30:57,497 --> 00:31:01,407
So that's a very different situation,
I think, to what we're talking about.
619
00:31:01,747 --> 00:31:06,427
But realistically, if you had a
client so you get on great and all
620
00:31:06,427 --> 00:31:08,727
that, and then you get into their
goals with them and things like that.
621
00:31:08,727 --> 00:31:13,537
And it turns out that their goals
are in conflict with your values.
622
00:31:14,412 --> 00:31:17,932
You can't work with them, you're going to
feel like shit about it, you're going to
623
00:31:17,942 --> 00:31:21,672
be like, you're going to be in that sort
of lawyer's position of having to work
624
00:31:21,672 --> 00:31:26,402
with the try and get the guilty person
off in court, and he's you have to, it
625
00:31:26,402 --> 00:31:29,952
might be your job, but you have to go
against your own ethical instincts to
626
00:31:30,207 --> 00:31:33,367
Angie: I think we should actually make
a whole entire episode out of that
627
00:31:33,367 --> 00:31:39,317
because I think that is something that
when you're the more you work with
628
00:31:39,337 --> 00:31:41,502
more, the more people you work with.
629
00:31:43,072 --> 00:31:44,492
The more you're going to find that.
630
00:31:45,222 --> 00:31:47,682
And it's not just about,
Oh, we're just diverse.
631
00:31:48,062 --> 00:31:49,772
Of course, diversity is awesome.
632
00:31:50,162 --> 00:31:56,892
But when you get to speaking with somebody
who at their core, it just doesn't fit.
633
00:31:58,302 --> 00:32:00,952
It can be problematic in your
coaching, even if you don't
634
00:32:00,962 --> 00:32:03,142
realize it, it's going to show up.
635
00:32:03,542 --> 00:32:04,892
So how do you manage it?
636
00:32:05,442 --> 00:32:09,832
John: There is that thing as well of, you
may in the course of coaching, find out
637
00:32:09,842 --> 00:32:13,912
things about your client that could cause
you to lose complete respect for them.
638
00:32:14,072 --> 00:32:14,522
Angie: Yeah.
639
00:32:14,922 --> 00:32:18,082
John: How do you then keep working
with them in a coaching relationship
640
00:32:18,092 --> 00:32:20,692
where you're supposed to be helping
them grow and develop because
641
00:32:20,692 --> 00:32:22,802
it's not your job to change them.
642
00:32:22,802 --> 00:32:25,742
It's their, you can be their
guide, but it's their job and
643
00:32:25,742 --> 00:32:28,542
they would actually even have to
want to change and they may not.
644
00:32:28,882 --> 00:32:33,182
So that might be something that gets
you into a position as you, the more
645
00:32:33,182 --> 00:32:36,552
you coach, the more you will start to
encounter these kinds of situations.
646
00:32:37,702 --> 00:32:38,052
Angie: Yep.
647
00:32:38,202 --> 00:32:39,062
Absolutely.
648
00:32:39,102 --> 00:32:44,292
I think becoming a coach, I probably
would end with this has opened my eyes
649
00:32:44,332 --> 00:32:51,142
to how different we really are and how
I, this sounds a little bit ridiculous,
650
00:32:51,142 --> 00:32:57,462
but how different from my world or any
world that I have been a part of growing
651
00:32:57,502 --> 00:32:59,622
up, how different people really are.
652
00:32:59,952 --> 00:33:04,972
Right perceptions and beliefs and stories
and a lot of it is the same, right?
653
00:33:05,002 --> 00:33:06,352
That's where we all come together.
654
00:33:06,352 --> 00:33:11,122
And, we understand each other as humans,
but so many things that I, might hang up
655
00:33:11,122 --> 00:33:13,262
from a call or and turn around and go.
656
00:33:13,312 --> 00:33:13,592
Wow.
657
00:33:13,592 --> 00:33:14,812
That was really interesting.
658
00:33:15,112 --> 00:33:17,162
And I'm not saying it
from a judgmental space.
659
00:33:17,222 --> 00:33:19,132
I'm saying it from wow.
660
00:33:19,172 --> 00:33:20,422
I didn't see that.
661
00:33:20,642 --> 00:33:20,832
Right.
662
00:33:20,832 --> 00:33:22,032
It's not always negative.
663
00:33:22,462 --> 00:33:25,522
Sometimes it's wow, what a
great alternative perspective
664
00:33:25,532 --> 00:33:29,532
that this person shared that I
actually learned something today.
665
00:33:29,582 --> 00:33:31,062
That can happen by the way.
666
00:33:31,172 --> 00:33:31,962
A lot.
667
00:33:32,522 --> 00:33:36,372
John: Do you think to follow on from
that before we do wind this down?
668
00:33:37,522 --> 00:33:41,812
Do you think as a coach that
you at least need to decide what
669
00:33:41,862 --> 00:33:44,852
your threshold boundaries are?
670
00:33:45,342 --> 00:33:49,272
with clients and do they, do
you feel that they need to be
671
00:33:49,272 --> 00:33:50,902
expressed to your clients as well?
672
00:33:50,912 --> 00:33:54,352
You, I think you said before I'm sure
I've said this to clients as well.
673
00:33:54,582 --> 00:33:56,132
I don't do relationship coaching.
674
00:33:56,132 --> 00:33:58,762
I don't do, these are things
that I won't do with you.
675
00:33:58,962 --> 00:34:01,022
That to some degree is
a threshold boundary.
676
00:34:01,022 --> 00:34:01,302
Right.
677
00:34:01,362 --> 00:34:02,192
But what do you think?
678
00:34:02,742 --> 00:34:03,372
Angie: So do I?
679
00:34:04,042 --> 00:34:09,012
I know, I don't think I set any boundaries
because, and I think the reason that
680
00:34:09,012 --> 00:34:12,512
I don't is because I don't know yet.
681
00:34:12,542 --> 00:34:13,772
I don't know this person.
682
00:34:13,772 --> 00:34:14,842
I don't know the stories.
683
00:34:14,842 --> 00:34:18,952
I don't know how, like I might say,
I don't talk about this, but let's
684
00:34:18,952 --> 00:34:20,831
just say the relationship pops up.
685
00:34:21,367 --> 00:34:25,277
And I will say to people I will
coach you on your behavior, but
686
00:34:25,317 --> 00:34:26,887
this is right now is hearsay.
687
00:34:27,107 --> 00:34:30,527
There's not another person here
present that we're working together.
688
00:34:30,847 --> 00:34:36,286
So we need to shift this a
little bit and talk about you.
689
00:34:36,917 --> 00:34:40,772
So, I don't think I've said it in advance.
690
00:34:41,322 --> 00:34:44,472
But there have been times during
the course of the journey with a
691
00:34:44,522 --> 00:34:50,202
client where I've had to say, okay,
let's draw this line because I can't
692
00:34:50,202 --> 00:34:51,672
coach somebody that's not here.
693
00:34:52,262 --> 00:34:52,862
John: I feel like.
694
00:34:53,726 --> 00:34:58,247
That's something that has evolved
for me over years of coaching.
695
00:34:58,257 --> 00:35:00,747
Like you figure out, you figure
these things out, you figure
696
00:35:00,747 --> 00:35:01,737
out what the boundaries are.
697
00:35:02,257 --> 00:35:05,677
But I can certainly think of coaching
situations I've had where I wished
698
00:35:05,677 --> 00:35:09,177
I already had that figured out and
just be able to say, not have to
699
00:35:09,177 --> 00:35:11,697
go away and think about, did you
just cross a big boundary here?
700
00:35:12,067 --> 00:35:14,537
Now sometimes it's very clear when
a boundary has been crossed and it
701
00:35:14,537 --> 00:35:18,907
needs to be addressed, but Yes, there
are times when I can directly think,
702
00:35:19,337 --> 00:35:22,357
yeah, I probably wish I'd had stuff,
had that stuff figured out in advance,
703
00:35:22,357 --> 00:35:26,937
but it's not easy to do and probably
is something you'll figure out along
704
00:35:26,947 --> 00:35:28,427
the way where the boundaries are.
705
00:35:29,207 --> 00:35:29,937
Angie: Absolutely.
706
00:35:29,937 --> 00:35:34,027
Until you experience something, I'm
not sure you could prepare for it.
707
00:35:34,027 --> 00:35:37,177
It really is that cliche, like you
don't know what you don't know.
708
00:35:37,187 --> 00:35:41,617
So you might even set a boundary and
then if that, and if it presents in
709
00:35:41,687 --> 00:35:45,897
during the course, you might actually
say, Oh, I can maneuver and navigate
710
00:35:45,917 --> 00:35:47,817
through this somehow, some way.
711
00:35:48,317 --> 00:35:53,497
But then there might be something that
you didn't plan for and you are completely
712
00:35:53,497 --> 00:35:57,557
uncomfortable and you realize that it's
affecting you because let's just face
713
00:35:57,557 --> 00:36:02,417
it, everybody like the truth is you are
still human, even though you're a coach,
714
00:36:02,717 --> 00:36:08,057
so you cannot go in and pretend that
you have this shield of armor around you
715
00:36:08,057 --> 00:36:09,977
where nothing's ever going to affect you.
716
00:36:10,532 --> 00:36:14,062
That's just not possible, whether
you cry with a client, right?
717
00:36:14,092 --> 00:36:16,832
That used to be something that I would
be like, I'm never going to get emotional
718
00:36:16,832 --> 00:36:21,382
with a client because I was taught by
somebody that wasn't a good practice.
719
00:36:21,452 --> 00:36:26,352
And then I had a client who lost a
child and there was no possibility
720
00:36:26,352 --> 00:36:30,122
that I was going to sit there stone
faced and go, so how, let's talk about.
721
00:36:30,537 --> 00:36:31,497
The birds today.
722
00:36:31,607 --> 00:36:33,247
No, absolutely not.
723
00:36:33,407 --> 00:36:37,557
So anyway, so I just feel like it's
more about for me, it's more about
724
00:36:37,557 --> 00:36:39,867
flow and discovering those things.
725
00:36:40,387 --> 00:36:44,667
And how I would handle
them, going forward.
726
00:36:45,217 --> 00:36:45,607
John: I agree.
727
00:36:45,907 --> 00:36:48,427
Okay, I think we have some
level of consensus there.
728
00:36:48,437 --> 00:36:49,537
It's an interesting topic.
729
00:36:49,537 --> 00:36:52,307
I think there are, I could certainly
think of a few other aspects that we
730
00:36:52,307 --> 00:36:56,477
could go and explore, but I think they'll
come up in other areas that we're going
731
00:36:56,507 --> 00:36:57,337
Angie: you're still fired.
732
00:36:57,337 --> 00:37:00,817
No,
733
00:37:01,372 --> 00:37:05,785
John: Torgie you ca you can't fire me
I quit Not really We'll be back again
734
00:37:06,030 --> 00:37:07,540
Angie: really backward teasing.
735
00:37:08,070 --> 00:37:11,370
John: If you have thoughts about
firing your class, maybe you have
736
00:37:11,370 --> 00:37:13,430
some experiences, you're thinking,
no, this is an experience that we
737
00:37:13,460 --> 00:37:14,270
Angie: Oh yeah.
738
00:37:14,680 --> 00:37:15,830
John: Maybe we'd love to hear it.
739
00:37:16,130 --> 00:37:18,070
And so, yeah, get in touch with us.
740
00:37:18,070 --> 00:37:20,750
You can leave us, it's free to do, but you
can leave us a voice message for the show.
741
00:37:20,750 --> 00:37:22,220
You can do it on your laptop.
742
00:37:22,220 --> 00:37:25,300
So as you have a microphone,
but go to speakpipe.
743
00:37:25,300 --> 00:37:28,970
com forward slash the coaching
clinic podcast, and you can leave
744
00:37:28,970 --> 00:37:32,480
us a voicemail there, and we will
absolutely feature you on the show.
745
00:37:33,010 --> 00:37:36,050
And in the meantime, have an amazing week.
746
00:37:36,110 --> 00:37:37,620
We will be back next time.
747
00:37:37,630 --> 00:37:40,090
Who knows what we'll be talking
about on our next episode.
748
00:37:40,150 --> 00:37:40,960
Tune in and find out.
749
00:37:41,550 --> 00:37:42,280
Angie: Bye for now.