Creating a purposeful practice part 2 with Michaela Thomas

Michaela is an experienced Clinical Psychologist, Couples Therapist and founder of The Thomas Connection, as well as a speaker and author of The Lasting Connection, about developing compassion for yourself and your partner. Michaela has a special interest in perfectionism and parental mental health, especially for working mothers trying to balance work with motherhood. Michaela teaches busy ambitious people how to let go of the pressure of perfection and give themselves the permission to pause and unwind, so they can find their passion and purpose, and then move towards joy, vitality and playfulness. Michaela’s mantra is ‘balance over burnout’. 

The highlights

• I welcome Michaela and explain why I wanted to talk to her again about perfectionism 00:32
• Michaela talks about her own struggles with perfectionism and the difference between self-criticism and self-correction. 02:02
• Michaela tells us about her training in Sweden 05:09
• We discuss the importance of charging the right fees to enable us to be better care-givers 08:43
• Michaela talks about perfectionism and imposter syndrome as hurdles to achievement 14:18 
• Michaela tells us about her journey to writing her book 17:00
• We discuss work/life balance, and Michaela talks about how she was helped by a business coach and the importance of having the right support 24:07
• Michaela explains what an online business manager is 35:23
• We discuss Michaela’s marketing strategy for her book, focusing on podcast guesting 37:34
• Michaela touches on some of the other things you can do to create a buzz around a book, and using a book coach 44:43
• We discuss abundance mindset 50:48
• I thank Michaela and she expresses her hope that she will be able to connect face to face in bookshops soon 54:36

Links:

Where to find Michaela:

www.thethomasconnection.co.uk

Insta: www.instagram.com/the_thomas_connection

Facebook: www.facebook.com/thethomasconnection

Twitter: www.twitter.com/thomasconnect

LinkedIn: www.linkedin.com/in/michaela-thomas

Facebook group: Pause Purpose Play pausepurposeplay

Podcast: Pause Purpose Play https://thethomasconnection.co.uk/podcast/

Book: The Lasting Connection https://thethomasconnection.co.uk/thelastingconnection/

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Do you sometimes wake up at 2 am worried that you’ve made a terrible error that will bring professional ruin upon you and disgrace your family?

I’m laughing now but when I first set up in private practice I was completely terrified that I had “missed” something big when setting up insurance or data protection.

Even now, three years in, I sometimes catch myself wondering if I have really covered all the bases.

It is hard, no impossible, to think creatively and have the impact you should be having in your practice if you aren’t confident that you have a secure business. BUT it can be overwhelming to figure out exactly what you need to prioritise before those clients start coming in.

I’ve created a free checklist (plus resources list) to take the thinking out of it. Tick off every box and you can see your clients confident in the knowledge that you have everything in place for your security and theirs.

Download it now from the new link:

https://psychologybusinessschool.com/client-checklist

TRANSCRIPT

SPEAKERS

Rosie Gilderthorp, Michaela Thomas

Welcome to the business of psychology podcast, the show that helps you to reach more people, help more people, and build the life you want to live by doing more than therapy.

Hello, everybody. So hopefully, we are coming live and into the Do More Than Therapy Community, and the Do Mode Than Therapy members group. And today I have Michaela Thomas with me. Yay, welcome, Michaela.

Thank you very much. I'm very pleased to be here.

So Michaela is actually here. I'm not sure if she knows this, but I have had loads of requests since our podcast episode, Michaela, for a follow up with you, because people have been asking me over and over again, how on earth does she do it? Because you've achieved so much in your practice, and you really seem to have a good work life balance, dare I use that term, as well. So I feel like there's a lot that we can all learn from you. And I'm personally really interested to dive into the specifics really, of how you kind of deal with perfectionism, which I know you help people with, and also struggle with, imposter syndrome and making the space really to do some of the amazing things that you do, especially your book, which is really exciting. So if it's alright with you, let's start on a personal note. I know that it's really common sometimes when you see somebody as successful as Michaela, she seems to have it all sorted, to kind of think that they're different from you. I know my personal imposter syndrome is very guilty of telling me that quite often like, oh, it's alright, for her, she's got it sorted, because she's different to me. And so actually, I think it's really important that we kind of get out there on the table from the beginning that fundamentally, you're probably not that different. So can you tell us a bit about your struggles with perfectionism?

Sure. And I think that it's an ongoing journey for a lot of us. And I think the two of the most common schemas we kind of think about psychologists having is a sense of self sacrifice, and perfectionism, I mean, it's, there's no surprise that I have quite a lot of clinical psychologists in my own Facebook group for Pause Purpose Play, because that's, you know, the same name as my podcast, this is what I'm really passionate about is helping people find more ways of calming down and unwinding and pausing. Because I've had to struggle that with that myself, you know, it's been really difficult for me to give myself the permission to slow down and finding different ways of pausing that felt more palatable to me. So it's come from kind of an ongoing journey for myself, through compassion focus therapy, and compassionate mind training to, to really think about what kind of life is going to be meaningful and valuable for me. So that's kind of flirting with the act side of things as well. So I don't think that it's I mean, I don't sort of say that too openly to my clients that I am a perfectionist, and I don't think I am anymore, I think I've done enough work for this to be much more functional. So we really want to think about the difference between when you are striving for excellence, and doing well versus when you're striving for perfectionism, which is unattainable. So I do think that I strive to do a good job, I think they'll have a high work ethic, I think I want to do well in my support of clients. And that's, that does mean that I self-reflect and self-correct. So say, if I've had a correspondence with a client, and they've been upset, I then might say, what could I have done differently? How could I have responded to them? Is there anything left for me to learn here, and that's very different to where we get caught up in perfectionism where you feel I've failed, I'm a bad person, I'm a bad psychologist, I'm no good at this. And that's the kind of the big learning journey for me has been sort of going from the self-critical to the self-corrective, with kind of learning a lot more about how we soften and soothe that inner critic so they can continue to serve us and protect us, but no longer trip us up and make us feel like shit, essentially. So that's been a huge part of me, as a psychologist that I have to practice what I preach, I have to take on board the strategies that I show to people on a daily basis.

That's such a useful distinction, the difference between self-criticism and self-correction, because I think a lot of the time there's a real fear of letting go of perfectionism, because what would I become? Because I think quite rightly, we often recognise that that drive, that perfectionist drive, has actually helped us to achieve an awful lot. And I'm not surprised either that comes up a lot for psychologists, particularly because the pipeline to become a psychologist is so brutal, and so long, and I think you often feel like you're just getting things wrong all the time, and you just need to work harder and harder and harder. So how did you square that in your own head? How did you become.. get that perspective really.

I think it's firstly, it's helped that I didn't train in the UK. So I haven't been subject to the quite the same gruesome route into clinical psychology, we have a very different bottleneck in Sweden, it's way harder to get in to begin with, but whilst you're in to the programme, you then spend six years training. So there's not like you first do assistant psychology and then maybe do a masters or go into IAPT, and then you get into taking psych, it's not like that, you sort of know that when you come into your undergrad version of that sort of the first three years of theoretical psychology, you know that you're going to come out the other end with the with the full kind of clinical training. So it's a different bottleneck, but I was the youngest to get into the programme. I was 19 when I got in. In Sweden, you have to work for a year before you're allowed to apply, so you have to have 12 months working experience before even allowed to apply to clinical psychology. And you know, there were people in my cohort who were say up towards to 45, and everything in between. So I feel like I had to face that from very early on that you know, that I was driven, that I had aspirations, I knew where I wanted my ambition to take me. And that's been hard. And it's been... so having to learn from people with more living, life experience and kind of wisdom that actually trying to take that on board when I was there as a 19 year old thinking I wanted to conquer the world. So I've softened a lot, I'm twice that age now almost. So that means I've been in psychology for half my life. And I use that as a way to think about how far I've come, how much I've grown, how I'm not striving for that perfection anymore, I'm striving to do a good job. But I also want to have a good life. And I want my son to have a good life. And I want to have a good marriage. And all of those things matter to me too. So I think that's like you talked about sort of work life balance. I think it's sort of more like work life calibration and integration that I constantly have to calibrate to myself, whenever I'm in a stretchy phase and doing something exciting in my business. And I have to calibrate to myself is this is this helpful for you? is this is what's going to help you thrive and feel okay, as a human being, and not just in your career as a psychologist?

Yeah, that sounds really valuable. Because I think quite a lot of us and I certainly have this too, we've got this part of our brain that can always see the next thing to do professionally, can always see all the business could be better if I do this, or, you know, I could serve people better if I offer this. And sometimes it is about sort of quietening that part of the mind slightly so that you can tune in to the other part that is saying, I need rest, I need to make time to eat lunch every day. Yeah, all of those kind of self-care things which are so difficult to slot in when you've got this ambitious driven part of you, which can be so loud.

Yeah. And that's why I often talk about how it's okay to follow your ambition but not drown in it. Because if you're drowning in it, that means you don't have the capacity to serve anymore. You actually drifting further away from the values you might have as a psychologist or being thoughtful, kind, you know, efficient or effective, whatever it is, you want to be. Actually when you are burnt out when you are running really low or anyone empty in terms of your energy levels, you're not going to show up as the best version of you, the version of you that you want to be as a psychologist. So that's why you have to keep calibrating that, or how do I top myself up so that I can continue to pour in the glasses of others? I mean, that's, that's true for both for us as parents as well as a psychologist, anything that is to do with your caregiving capacity for others, you have to keep calibrating that so you also can do the caregiving for yourself.

Yeah, absolutely. And I think on the podcast episode, one of the things which really resonated with people was how we talked about how that concept needs to be applied to your fees. And if you charge fees, that mean you have to see somebody on the hour, every hour all through the day, you're not able to fill up your own cup enough to serve those people particularly well, or to sort of live the values that you want to live. And that's a huge part of the teaching around pricing in Psychology Business School, it's like don't just think about what you can do, physically what you can manage, you've got to plan to have that space in your practice that enables you actually to be worth any fee. Because you know that I've made the mistakes. I think I shared that with you before I went in really low when I started my practice. And to be honest, there came a point where I was so burnt out, I'm not sure I was even worth the pittance that I was charging. Whereas as soon as I doubled my fees, and made more space in my day, I knew I was worth the bigger fee that I now charge because I'm reading about you, I'm thinking about you, I'm you know really giving so much more to my clients now. I think it's such an important thing to remember.

It really is, and as partly acting as self worth, knowing that the transformation that we can offer, the value we can bring to our clients, and as clinical psychologists, we really struggle with that. But obviously people who are in coaching might be finding that easier. But obviously, I can only speak for clinis, I am a clini-psych, but I know it's a similar thing with counselling psychologists, and CBT therapists etcetera. So people who are in this caregiving capacity, where we've been trained to, to serve others, then we really have to step out of this idea that the only way I can serve others is with the one-to-one work on an hourly rate, y'know rate basis. So I now charge about double what I what I charge when I first set out. And I do get a lot of kickback around that, I do get some criticism around why I charge what I charge. But I don't have to explain my rates to other people. I know the mission I'm on, I know what I'm aiming to do to serve to better serve the general public. And part of that is that when I can step away from just doing the one-to-one work, and I think I shared that to you before, that I actually don't do that many one to one hour sessions a week, I do about eight to ten clients sessions a week for the four days that I work, that means that I can do other things like run my podcast, like run a Facebook group, like put out free resources, like write a book, and also create an online course which I can then gift away for free to people who are needing it or or a heavily reduced basis because we also know that when you do put some money towards something you're more likely to engage within, psychologically speaking, that's what we really want, we want people to complete courses. So I can give away a course for 10% of the of the price to someone who's on benefits for instance. I cannot give away an hour with me of 10% of the hourly rate, I can't, because if I did that, I wouldn't be able to help pay my mortgage and pay for my child's nursery fees and things like that, that actually do cost money, and pay for my own self care to be able to have fewer live sessions in the week so that I can have a lunch break, I can work on the business and not just in the business. So that's the, that's the lesson I've been learning over the years through, through business coaching through, you know, mentorship through my own kind of compassion journey that actually, I need to work in this way, because there are lots of things I want to do and give away for free. And I then needed to be able to make enough money so that I could set aside the time to build those free resources. And some of these free resources, free resources are actually aren't free for me to do, it's costing me about £400 a month to put out my podcast, that's not free. That's the cost to me, right? So I need to finance that some somehow and the podcast, I'm getting so much resonance from clients, saying that I, you know, sent that to my friend and she's now sought out help, etc, etc. So you're reaching people way wider, way further than you would do with just saying I can see you one-to-one, lots of people aren't ready for that yet. We know that kind of pre-contemplative stage where they're not ready to take action. And I've had people saying, I've listened to your podcast for months, and now I felt safe enough to work with you individually, because I feel like I know you now and I feel like you would understand that my problems. So that's the bit that I think really encouraging people to to think beyond just the one-to-one.

Yeah, I completely agree with you. And essentially, that is a social enterprise model, whether you don't have to have a specific legal structure to be a social enterprise. If you're doing things like that, you know, you're taking some of your profit, and investing it in reaching people that couldn't afford to pay your fees, then you are acting as a social enterprise. And I think there are, I hope anyway, that there'll be people watching or listening to this, that realise that actually, that's that's what they're aiming for too. And that it's an okay to charge a bit more for people that can afford to pay it in order to make those things a reality, because you cannot do it if you're working every hour under the sun client facing, you just can't. You know, this is a question I get a lot, because obviously running this community and Psychology Business School and the podcast, people are often like how do you fit it all in? But very similar to you, I don't have many clients anymore. And that's how I make the space in the week. But it would not be possible if I was charging what I was charging a couple of years ago, it really wouldn't be possible.

No. And that's the thing that we're not superhuman, like coming back to some of the feedback you've had around my podcast episode. No, I'm not different to you. I'm not exceptional. I'm not superhuman. No, I don't work evenings and weekends. And that's the route to my success. I want to quote one of my podcast guests, Mandy Letto, who's a, who's an executive coach, and she's very openly talking about her experience of burnout. She often says that you've achieved the things in your life despite your overachieving, despite your perfectionism, not thanks to it that you've got there in the end, but that's costing you an arm and a leg is the burnout that you've paid as a price. So I guess that's the bit I'm trying to say to people that yes, you're going to be successful if you strive for excellence. And you're less likely to be successful if you strive for perfectionism because A, you don't get started, and B, you don't finish. That's the biggest issue I had when I was much more keen to get things right years back, that I just over thought things for ages and ages and ages. And then if you overthink, you don't put things out there. And there's a quote by by Gretzky that often talk about that, it's not as relevant to UK people because your not into ice hockey, but he's a Canadian ice hockey player who says, you miss 100% of the shots that you don't take. And that's a really powerful, powerful one for me, if I don't take a shot at it, then I will definitely fail. If you take a shot at it, I might fail, but I could've succeed. So you can't hold yourself back anymore, just say, well, what if it's not perfect? What if people are going to judge it? What if they're gonna think I'm not professional enough or good enough and all that imposter stuff? Because then you will definitely not get anywhere because you've not tried it. So that's why I allow myself to do much more now. I'm just like, you know, sort it out when I try it and put it out there and see what happens. And that's the bit that's steering away from perfectionism, which is more about trying to have it all like all the ducks in a row before you go ahead. And that's just not helpful for business, you need to allow yourself the creativity to experiment, to try and then tolerate the failure that might come from that.

That sounds like the key indicator of when you've strayed into perfectionism, and kind of unrealistically high standards, it's when it's actually stopping you from moving even a pace forward. I think we all, everybody listening to this or watching it will resonate with that, we've all done that. And actually, the one that most members of Psychology Business School or the Do More Than Therapy membership talk to me about as the one they stumble over and never get started on is the book. Because all of us feel we've got a book in us but never managed to take that step forward. So can we talk a little bit about your journey with that, like, how did you take that first step?

Sure. I mean, I think this goes back into ambition and drive and purpose as well. But you know, I've always wanted to be an author. So you have to really think about why would I want to write this book? If you think, oh, I don't really like writing, but it seems to be the done thing, other people are doing it, and I see that working for them. That's probably not the best way in, because it's a lot of hard work, you don't get paid very much, unless you sell a lot of books, so we like get paid around 50p per book or something. And that's after you've earned out your advance. So you have to have a self motivation to this, this needs to feel like something you want to do, you do need to enjoy playing around with words to some extent, otherwise it's going to feel excruciating to put it down on the page, and then also going through the editing process of tweaking it making it better. So for me personally, it was it's been a lifelong dream to be an author, I just never pictured that would, it would be a nonfiction book first. I've always written sort of short stories and kind of things for my drawer, I even won sort of a competition was when I was a teenager, and I won a, won a bunch of sweets, for a, or I came third actually, so I didn't win. So I came third in a competition, not that that matters, but I got a whole pile of sweetie bags as a prize. So that's a very proud achievement of mine. So always thought that I was going to write a book at some point and the joy of writing a nonfiction book, when you also like writing fiction meant that I gave myself the freedom to play around with the words to write it as I would speak to clients in the room, I was very clear on my voice before I started of how I wanted to sound how I didn't want to sound. So having good examples in your mind or books that you found helpful, the things that you liked, and the things that you don't want to have as an example, so kind of almost like any good marketing you can dare to, to repel and alienate the people you don't want to read the book, and then really speak to the people you do want to read your book.

That is such an important point. Because I think that's helpful in two ways, because it makes me think, when when I personally struggle with getting started with something, either because of imposter syndrome, that's often the thing for me, or, or this sort of perfectionist voice in my head, then it's imagining the person I'm trying to help sat in front of me and imagining sort of speaking it to them, whether it's, you know, a podcast, or whether it's a blog post I'm writing, or something I'm working on. If I imagine what do I want to communicate to that person? That's what tends to like push me over the edge to kind of get started with it. But I also...

Because you probably could have a conversation with that person in your sleep.

Yeah, yeah, exactly. And, and that's also kind of the same point is, you know, that will repel some people because you're you can't take this, I think we all used to try and do this actually where you try and take a voice which almost talks to everybody, we're trying to be accessible and friendly to everyone when actually people need to see themselves in what you're doing and they need to feel like you're talking just to them. In order to just break through all the noise of all the stuff that's out there at the moment, I feel that's a really powerful marketing message, definitely something we need to take on board.

Well it's a classic thing that's very similar to when you write, you know, a blog post or a social media post or anything where you try to speak to other clients, that if when you try to speak to everyone you end up speaking to no one and no one is going to feel that they recognise themselves in the way you're describing the pain point. So, for me, it was a big journey of really trying to get crystal clear on who did I want to pick this book up? And, and who did I want to not do that? Who did I want to just say that actually not for me, and that's okay. You know, people pick up the book, they look at the back cover, they flick through the sort of the chapter overview. If they go nah, not for me, that's okay, I needed to alienate those people quickly, so that they won't buy a £12 book, whatever, leave a nasty review on Amazon because it wasn't for them. And that's okay. I'd rather they saw actually no, not that's not for me, I'll pick another couples book that has, I don't know pictures, or pick one that's thinner, or given me kind of a quicker resolution, that's fine, I was very clear that I didn't want my book to be a quick fix, that it this is something you thoroughly have to work through. So that will alienate people who don't understand that good relationships take, actually good effort. And consistently over time, if you want longevity in your relationship, you're gonna have to consistently do that over time.

I'm like, I'm soaking all of this stuff in because I'm thinking about writing a book for psychologists and therapists actually, at the moment, and really grappling with that idea of kind of what do I want it to do for people, and what do I not want it to do. And, yeah, it's, it's a tough, tough conversation to have with yourself, but so worth spending that time up front.

I love how non negotiable that was to you. That it's like, you know, there's all these unhelpful discourses out there, I get it all the time. Like, oh, you're running a business with two small children? That must be burnt out central. Or, like, you know, the hustle kind of mentality that you see rammed down your throat really, um, I'm like actually I don't run my business like that. And I don't work late at night and you know, other than during lockdown one when that was the only time, but I really don't work long hours and I don't really work weekends. And I don't know sometimes people either don't believe that, or are a little bit kind of sniffy about it. But actually, it is possible so long as you put those boundaries in. It just sounds that you're so good at that for like I can learn a lot.

Well, it's come it's come over years and years and obviously I've had a lot of help from Wendy Kendall who has been my business coach through, through the sort of first year of me getting business coaching, I had really massive support from her. And that's helped me A operate, and B know my worth, C understand my niche, D trust to put things out there and under, you know, under a brand I felt comfortable with. So all of that has been stuff that has been chipped away at over the years, through the use of paying for, for coaches who actually were that much in front of me, had that much more experience and could explain to me, this is what the journey could look like, and how fulfilled you can feel. If you're building a psychology practice that serves you, and not just serving the people who you've got in front of you. So it has definitely been kind of an ongoing calibration. And it's not like I'd never get that wrong. But ,I like I said, in our podcasts, I've experienced burnout before when I was working in IAPT, and I just I was just not going to have that happen when I was working for myself. So I'd rather than take less income, and I do get some, you know, consistently good income per month, it's not that I don't, but I could make more, I could double the amount of clients I see a month, but it wouldn't be the practice I wanted to run. So I have a comfortable lifestyle from the income I make. And that's again, that's been something I've had to really challenge like my money mindset around this moving towards more have a kind of more of an abundant rather than a scarcity mindset that I don't have to constantly feel like I'm strapped for cash, or be worrying about taking a day off, or or giving myself a sick day if I'm not well enough to work. So all of those things have been, like you say non negotiables because they are about protecting my well being, and my well being now that I'm a mother, that's that's around the time where I left the NHS where I left IAPT, because when I came back from Mat leave, I realised I can't work like this. It's just not not negotiable for me, when I had a child who, you know, had severe allergies, and I was constantly worried about that next call from nursery that, oh, he's had a reaction, a feeling like I cannot just go. So now we work from home, I can be at Nursery in five minutes. Not that I'm worried on a daily basis about his allergies, but it's just it's just portrayed to me that life was more than just serving someone else's caseload. And now I call my own shots. So I find that a much more sustainable way of living for me. And like you're saying, no, I don't, I don't think that that hustle culture is particularly helpful thinking that if you're a business owner, that is what you're doing. You have to build in the CEO stuff. I have me Friday as my CEO Friday. So now we're having a chat with this, but normally I only do stuff where I'm building things in the business as my CEO day, I'm the CEO. So CEO can't just do one-to-one therapy, that's they need to do leadership stuff, they need to do the admin stuff and delegating stuff, the visionary stuff, where they're talking to their staff about what's the strategy, what's the next step that we're going to be building. So that's where, you know, I've just had a conversation with my web developer, and then I'm having a conversation with my online business manager. So a big thing that we haven't talked about yet of how we build sustainable practice is also having the right support around you, you cannot be a jack of all trades, you cannot do at all. You can't be, you know, a pro at the finances, and the website building, and the social media and all that, just we're we're trained to be pros at treating people for stress. So that's what we should be doing, everything else we can outsource.

Yes, I couldn't agree more. I mean, this is something I bang on about all the time, the Psychology Business School students watching this and probably like, this is literally what I spend all of our time talking about. Because if you are trying to do all of that, then you start to feel deskilled and you start to feel like you're not worth your fees, because you're so frequently spending your time doing stuff that is, not to use an overused phrase, but your zone of genius. And it really erodes your self esteem actually. And even if you are good at it is, like so for me this was podcast editing, I quite like editing my own podcast, because it's safe work, you know, it's work, which I can do and I just get to sit in my introvert cave and I don't really have to go out and do anything frightening if I'm doing a editing a podcast. But you know, ultimately my values are telling me that what I should be doing is kind of getting out and networking, spreading the word about what I'm doing, rather than sitting in my introvert cave. And so actually getting someone else, outsourcing the editing of my podcast, which I believe you advised me to do last time we did that I think, has has freed up that space, I've now got an extra couple of hours a week that I can spend being forward facing and spreading messages that are helpful to more people. So there's so many...

There's also the nice way to also make your psychology business feel less lonely. I mean, I've been having my podcast editor with me since August and she's fantastic. When my book came out she sent me the most amazing kitkat bouquet, that's literally a bouquet full of kit kats instead of flowers, because she obviously listens to every single word I say on the podcast and knew that one of the things I'd been doing to kind of cope with the first lockdown was eating far too many kit kats. So then it's like, it's not just the support of taking a task off me that she can do far better than I can, she's got a background in in you know music, media and film stuff. So she can kind of work audio magic in a way that I can't, it's also that I can then just pass it on, and I know that it's going to be done, and it's another person on my team, that it's another person I can drop an email and have a chat with. And she will send me something lovely, like I sent something lovely to her for Christmas, etc. So you have people on your team, and that can be really nice when we're quite often lonely in private practice.

Absolutely. Yeah, I think a lot of people watching or listening to this will know Sam, our community manager. You know Sam's a member of my team who I speak to every day, and it feels so much more welcoming, going to work and knowing that there is someone else around, you know, even if it's virtual. And, yeah, I've got a few team members that do different things for me, and it really does feel very different to those days when it was just me at the top of an old Victorian house.

Very different, though, isn't it, but I guess that's one of those things that can feel really scary, because again, coming back to money mindset of if you are scaling your business, it can feel really scary to put money into these expensive things like getting a VA or getting a podcast editor or someone to do your social media or whatever it might be, all of that feels really stretchy, can I afford it? But actually can you afford to get burnt out? That's expensive, taking time off work for months, because you're you've hit the wall, that's expensive. So, and can you afford to leave all this money on the table where people are coming your way, and you just don't have the capacity to deal with them all. And that's something I'm dealing with at the moment and trying to find better ways of creating a good client journey, kind of a customer customer journey for people coming in. And having my my new team sort of dealing with that and making sure that every single person that comes my way feels really welcomed with the same compassionate ethos, rather than me sort of feeling like I'm crap, I've not dealt with my emails for a few days, and that person has not had a response. So that's I think that's one of the things that we have to think about, what does this feel like for someone who's potentially in distress coming this way, been sitting on this decision for months to reach out for help, and then they reach out and you just don't have the space to deal with your emails, and then they don't get a reply for three days. I mean, how would you feel if you did that, you'd plucked up the courage to reach out and then someone says, sorry, I'm behind your emails. Whereas they got response from someone straight away, you know, we can obviously do these template emails where you as a visionary write these things, and the the VA person just populates it with some extra bits. And that's every single NHS service is run with administrators and receptionists doing that first client facing part of the journey. And in private practice, we think that we shouldn't, it's just me, but no other service does that.

Yeah, I completely agree. And actually, the feedback that I've had, because I've obviously done it both ways, the feedback that I've had is that since I've been using my assistant, Anna to do that side of things for me, people feel much more contained, and like they're coming into a more professional service. Also the benefit, if anybody watching or listening to this is like me, if you're one of those people that tend to say yes, when you should say no, then you can set your vision for what your boundaries need to be, when you want to work your clinic hours and when you're not going to be doing clinic hours, and the beauty is your assistant will stick to that when you wouldn't. And so this is another reason that I really rely on Anna in my team, because if you come to me and ask for an appointment, I'll probably try and squeeze you in. And that's not good for me. Whereas Anna will look for when I'm actually available and offer that appointment, and I haven't really lost I don't think I've lost anybody as a result of that journey.

No, and it's really really helpful and it can help you have tricky conversations as well. You know, my online business manager helped me look at strategy and and have some tough conversations with my previous web developer like what package is Michaela currently on, how much is she paying? How much, what's the usage for that? All of these difficult conversations I didn't feel like doing but she was like, oh, I'm just compiling a financial report for Michaela's expenditure, so I need to know these things ASAP. And she does, wrote like three four emails to follow it up and like all of these things that are really helpful that when you have someone else fighting your corner, you can now focus your energy on the things that you really good at, like you said earlier sort of your zone of genius of letting you shine with the clinical work if you're you know, if you do therapy, for instance, but whatever it is that you do, might be medical legal reports, so whatever it is you do, that's the bit that your online business manager, your VA, your your podcast editor can't do, so let them do what they're really good at so you can do the bits that you're good at, whereas me writing a medical legal report sounds like the worst version of hell so I would never do that. So that's why I never go into that, that industry. So you need to really know the things that you like to do and sticking with those things, the things that fulfil you and just leaving the other bits.

Absolutely. So actually picking up on a question that's come in, somebody I can't see who it is because stream yard doesn't show me but somebody is asking would examples of outsourcing be things like admin, web design, systems for calendars and booking, I think those are great examples, but you've also mentioned an online business manager, I've not heard of that. What's that role?

So this is, this is, this is an absolutely amazing, and it's something one of my business coaches recommended me to have. An online business manager is like a step up from a VA. So they look at strategy, they look at the overarching aims you have, under your visions, they can look at that from kind of quarter to quarter, and help you get to those long term goals by taking a step back and see what needs to be implemented. So the what I like about my online business manager is that what she had me at was when she said, I will be a Monica, for your business. So like Monica from friends. Whereas I like to think that I'm organised and structured, but I'm really not, I'm much more of a visionary and the kind of coming up with creative ideas, then going to my online business manager, she would then look at this, and how you implement that, because you don't have to reinvent the wheel, she has multiple clients who've done similar things and might be ahead of me in the journey that I want to walk. So she might then say, have you thought about creating this sort of podcast page instead, or helping me with sort of marketing funnels and things like that. So it's I guess, at some point in your business, for me, especially where I am now, I don't want to do any more courses when I'm learning this, I just need someone to help me implement it. So I've spent lots of money on really helpful courses where digital marketing strategists, people have helped me understand marketing funnels, and now having an online business manager helps me to put that into action by delegating that either to the VA that she has working with her, or the web developer who now does stuff to my website, so. So that's really really helpful or what that is. I've only just discovered that there's lots of comments that I didn't see, before I'm, it'd be so lovely if people give the permission for what's it called stream yard to actually see who we are, because I've got lots of comments from Facebook user saying, hello, hello, hello, and I don't know who you are, and I bet I'll actually know who you are, if we had your names, so.

There should be a little link that you can click at the top, which gives stream yard permission. So yes, if you can see that link, click it. And then we should be able to see who you are and say hi, which would be really nice.

So feel free to ask questions as you go along, because it's really helpful to make it interactive.

Yes, it'd be really good to know what people are thinking. Lots of positive comments so far, which does not surprise me at all. One thing I wanted to ask you about today, which was the bit actually that we didn't really get to talk about on our podcast episode, we talked lots about the process of writing in that episode, and sort of getting the book to that point of feeling like it's finished, the baby is ready to be let out. But we didn't really talk about the marketing plan, and what you've done to get your book into the world. And I happen to know, from stalking, that you've done some pretty impressive things. So would you mind sharing with us a bit of your marketing strategy?

What impressive things have I done in terms of my marketing strategy?

I'm actually, I'm really impressed by your podcast guesting strategy, because I know that you had quite a high profile gig there.

I did. Am I allowed to mention who that was with?

I don't know, are you?

Yeah well, yeah, absolutely, from their point of view, that's just spreading the word. So yeah, I did a I did a podcast interview with Deliciously Ella, which has had 15 million downloads, I think. So podcast guessing is a great strategy for visibility for psychologists. Because once you overcome the imposter stuff, saying that I don't know enough about the subject, we are actually experts in our field. And owning that expertise, and stepping out in the public eye means that we can actually address some of these preconceived notions and myths that exist about mental health, for instance, and talk about what we know is true from the research and our clinical experience. So I had to sort of think similar to what you said earlier that you have to throw your hat in the ring, you have to get out there in the arena. Otherwise, you will be someone who's just looking at all those other people doing it. But if you're not getting into the arena, you actually can't really say anything about that. So that came out of me just sending her a direct message on Instagram, literally that I pointed to someone who I knew that she is she's had on her podcast before or an acquaintance of mine, and I just gave her a couple of compliments and things I enjoyed about our podcast and then said, I've got my book out, it's about this. May I send it to you? And she said, yeah, drop me an email, and she then gave me her address, and I sent her a podcast interview I'd done on another podcast where I was talking about compassion and relationships, and she said, I'm listening to this now, I'm loving it, can I have you on the podcast as a guest? So All of that stems from your own mindset. If you are thinking I'm not good enough, I'm not able to do this, other people are better experts, you're not going to put your hat and throw your hat in the ring. So all I had to do is to believe that I know more than she does to feel like I can qualify as a guest. Right? So you only have to have more expertise than the general public you're talking to. And we all do have more expertise than the general public we're talking to. It does not mean that I think I'm the top expert on relationships or that ever think that I can be Esther Perel, because I can't, Esther Perel is taken, I can be I can be me, but I can't be Esther Perel. So I think that's, that's helpful of how, if you want to grow your visibility, and increase your chances to say, getting a, a book deal, that is then taking that step and saying, actually, I can speak about this, that and the other thing on your podcast, would you be interested? And showing examples of have you spoken to other people. So the first podcast guesting might be the hardest one, but once you have a few under your belt, it's almost like you can add them to your CV, then you have examples of you speaking and can send that to other people. I'm just seeing a comment here it's had 15 million downloads, not 50 million downloads. So 15 is still impressive.

But I do think kind of something else that's really important to draw out there that you mentioned is that you had something to give straightaway. You had content that you could point people to to say, look, I've demonstrated my expertise in this free content that you can access and see. And I think that's where people sometimes stumble. So you do have to, you know, write those blog posts, and you know, come and be on a podcast. But Business of Psychology actually is a great example of a good first podcast for quite a lot of people to come and tell their story, because then you know, people who've been on that I know that they have used those episodes as examples of their speaking ability, their communication ability. But when you're pitching for somebody else, I think that's the that's the stumbling block I see people fall down on sometimes that, yes, you do need to have the mindset that you are good enough and expert enough to pitch yourself. But I think you do also need to have somewhere to send the person so that they can check you out and check out your content.

And that's why it's really helpful to start really small, I mean, I often talk about that, that if you want to dream big, you have to start small. And that can be difficult when you kind of get perfectionistic about these things thinking oh but that podcast doesn't have much reach or it's a really new podcast, actually starting small is really great, because it's like the first pancake, you can tolerate that that first pancake is a little bit paler than it should be, and it's not as great, and you have to calibrate the level of heat. This is an actual scientific thing that I spent some research on two years ago for Pancake Day. So yeah, the first pancake is an actual thing. And I used it a lot in in work around perfectionism, that actually allow yourself the first to be a little bit shitty, and then you've learned from it. Whereas if I pitched myself up to Deliciously Ella as my first podcast, it would have been too stretchy, it would have been too difficult. Whereas when you're going on a big podcast, you're expected to deliver sound bites, you're expected to be able to speak without going Ah-ah-ah-ah the whole time. So I used some smaller interviews as a way to practice my speaking engagements and learn from it listening back to it again, self corrective, not self critical. And think what could I have done more of, can I, how can I control the interview? So now I've learned so much about what questions I want to have, I have the assertiveness to say no, that's not a question I'm prepared to answer or that's not within my expertise. Some of that has just come from doing it. Some practising gives progress, as we often talk about within perfectionism work. So it's not about thinking that you're gonna go out there and deliver this thing that you've heard and other psychologists do on a podcast. You've got people like Dr Soph, there's lots of really good psychologists out in the media, who you think they sound so ace, and you're wondering how many pancakes did they fry before they came to this one. So I think you really have to consider allowing yourself the learning curve to grow, to reflect, to tweak, and then eventually you get the heat right, and you're gonna make some wicked pancakes.

I love that analogy. I don't know what's wrong with me though, my first pancake is always the burnt one. I always get...

Too intense. Go in with lower expectations and then you might not burn it.

Absolutely. So it sounds like the podcast outreach strategy was a useful one. Is there anything else that you did to create buzz around the book?

I mean, there's there's a lots of things here that I'm trying, I'm trying to hold back a little bit because I'm going to bring it into my workshop around book writing. But yeah, I think there's a lot of stuff that you can do around creating a buzz in terms of having platform. So for book books to be successful, it's all about platform. You can write the most amazing book and agonise over it for 10 years, and then once you finally get it out there, you probably shouldn't agonise over it for 10 years because the content might not be as topical, but even if you've sort of gone through the editing, and it's a brilliant book, and then no, you don't know enough people, so how are you going to get the buzz out and around it. And there's a bigger sort of picture to this, which is around sort of Amazon ranking and algorithms and getting enough sales in and within a particular time frame. So things like pre orders, you know, coming up the sales rankings, and getting bestseller rankings, reviews on Amazon. So there's a lot of stuff there that you just can't know, until you know them. So you have to learn how this works and the business of book writing. And for me, again, I'm going to come back to coaching, I paid for a book coach. So I probably paid, I probably spent about half my advance of this book on my book coach, but that made the process way smoother, again, less lot less risk of burnout, any stumbling blocks I could turn to her and talk it through. So that's not a psychologist, that's someone who's in publishing, who understands the process of book writing, and can help me with any mind gremlins that were showing up along the way. So that's been hugely important, understanding the different parts of the book writing process, and helping helping me of how to book launch your business, essentially, I know she does courses and things like that for for people who want to write a book and use it as a way to, to kind of expand your business as well. Because, again, like I said, you don't get much money from the actual book, it's about the doors that that book will open for you.

Yes, I think that's really interesting. And I think one of the key messages from today has been about, you know, recognising when getting somebody alongside you, like a coach, at the right moment, can, I think it not only helps you to structure what you're doing and helps your thinking, but it also confronts you with an example of success. And you realise that that that human in front of you has achieved what you're what you're striving towards. I think when people are looking for coaches, one of the things that I often say is, you know, look for the person that has something that you want, you know, whether that, you know, you really admire what they've done professionally. I know, you talked about Wendy, and that would be a great example of that, that, you know, you look at the way that she works and think, you know, she's got it, that's something that I would I would like to work that way too. And I know that when I offer coaching, it's often people who want to do online courses, they want to do something really different alongside their therapy work, and that's why they would come to me for that. And I think it's the same with a book coach, you know, you want somebody who, who knows how to make a book successful and has lived it, because that it not only gives you coaching, it also gives you that, like shining light, if you like of like, oh, yeah, it can be done. I don't have to feel...

It's possible.

Yeah, exactly.

Yeah, and I think that kind of it does come into that abundance mindset thing that you were talking about. I mean, in case people haven't heard that term before, an abundance mindset is where you come from the perspective of knowing that there's enough, there's enough of everything for everybody. And you having something doesn't mean that somebody else doesn't get something, or that's the way that I perceive it anyway. Whereas the scarcity mindset is that, you know, that feeling you get when you start out in private practice, and you find somebody more qualified than you and they, and they live down the road. And you're like, ah, God, I'm never gonna get any clients, because they're going to take them all. And I think we all start like that, I think it's really unusual to start in business and not feel like that. I certainly felt strongly like that. But actually, when you move into this place of like, oh actually, there is more than enough work out there for everybody. It's kind of sad in mental health, actually, that this is true, but it certainly is, there's more than enough clients for every person in private practice, then you can build collaborations, then you can sort of raise each other up. And if you raise the whole industry up, that's good for everybody. And you can all prosper.

It really is because that means that we're all helping each other raise those rates to be good market value rates. Y'know a big part that I'm passionate about is trying to phase out insurance companies that's been kind of big, so self care strategy for me of not working with acceptances, not to blame and shame them horribly, but they're just not worth my time. So I think you're right in that sense of having that abundance mindset helps us to collaborate. And that's, that's one of the things that I was referred to within Wendy's group as a collaboration queen. Because I didn't do it as a strategy. I just liked talking to people. And that's hence why my brand is the Thomas Connection. I like connecting with people. And that coming back to your question around marketing strategy around the book, those years of collaborations I did on Instagram, talking to women, meeting up for coffees when we were allowed to do that, and doing all of these things that I did on a pro bono basis for the Nourish app, Motherdom, Motherdom magazine, all of these things I did around perinatal mental health paid off, because all of those women who had bigger platforms than I did said oh Michaela's written a book, let me share it. So that's new, but you can't go into the world thinking I'm going to collaborate with you and talk to you and connect with you because you might scratch my my back, back for me, it's not that, it's not a tit for tat kind of reciprocal kind of scoresheet, it's more about connecting with people who are like minded who you support their business idea, and they support yours, and you like to have good chats with them again, that's how I felt like, I was less lonely in private practice, because I could talk to whoever I wanted, and have coffees and collaborate with people I liked from Instagram, whereas when I was working in the NHS, you were kinda stuck with the teammates you had, I didn't get to recruit them, unfortunately. So that means that it's a lot easier to find a dynamic that works well for you. And all of those things I then did for free, over years, finally paid off. So I hope that makes sense to people that it's there is so much work out there for us, more than we can actually even meet. So that means that we can where we can collaborate to come up with these ideas, we don't have to compete. And that's probably the been the saddest thing that I've experienced, of private practice of when there is a sense of critical competitiveness around this, around what I charge or who I serve, or why don't I serve those people. And that is just I just have to, you know, you just take a deep breath and reconnect with what's important to you and just let that slide off, because it's just not going to serve you. And that's been a huge, huge part of my growth of owning who I want to serve and how I want to do that. And tolerating that that is going to spark jealousy or envy or competition in some people. And then I have to think that that speaks louder for them than it speaks for me.

Yes, I mean, that's such a good point. And I think, yeah, unless we've got any questions come through, I think that would be a good place for us to round off today. Thank you so much, Michaela. I mean, I'm sure I'll probably get you on the podcast again, if you'll take it, because you know, it's so value packed and I think that a lot of people will have had a lot of lightbulb moments listening to you. So I really appreciate you taking the time. And wish you all the success with the book. I know it's going to be successful, it already is. So yeah, huge congratulations for that.

Thank you very much.

Would you mind when this video goes into the group, could you just maybe pop a link to the book under it, so that people can check it out? Lots will want to see what you've been working on. And it's going to be on my reading list, that's for sure.

I will. And I'm really looking forward to when it's going to be on bookshops where we can actually go to book shops, because that's one of those moments of success. And obviously, you have to define what success is for you. But for me, lifelong dream of seeing a book in a bookshop. I actually got sent a picture on Instagram of this big bookshop in Dubai, that has it on his bestseller chart, you know, ahead of things like Glennon Doyle and Philippa Perry. So yeah. Like, I wish I could just go to Dubai and hold it in my hand. But maybe, you know, when a couple of months, maybe we'll be able to get to Waterstones, and I'll do book signings and talks and things like that. And it'd be so lovely to connect with other people face to face in person, if you're close to where I am, then it'd be lovely to see people.

Yes, I'm going to be crossing all my fingers and toes that you get to go and see your book in a bestsellers list. That sounds absolutely incredible.

Thank you.

All right, I will speak to you very soon. Thank you, everybody.

Thank you.

Before you go, I just wanted to check something out with you. Because I don't know if this is just me. But do you sometimes wake up at two o'clock in the morning, worried that you've made a terrible error that's going to bring professional ruin upon you and disgrace your family? I'm laughing now, but when I first set up in private practice, I was completely terrified that I'd missed something really big when I was setting up my insurance or data protection practices. Even now, three years in, I sometimes catch myself wondering if I've really covered all the bases properly. And it's hard. No, actually, it's impossible to think creatively and have the impact you should be having in your practice if you aren't confident that you have a secure business underneath you. But it can be really overwhelming to figure out exactly what you need to prioritise before those clients start coming in. So I've created a free checklist plus resources list to take the thinking out of it. Tick off every box and you can see your clients confident in the knowledge that you have everything in place for your security and thiers. You can download it now from psychologist.drrosie.co.uk/client-checklist, and the link is in the show notes.

Thank you for listening to this week's episode of the Business of Psychology podcast. If you share my passion for doing more than therapy, then make sure you come over and join my free Do More Than Therapy Facebook community where you can work on getting your big ideas off the ground with like minded psychologists and therapists. I'd also love it if you could leave the show a five star review wherever you listen to your podcasts. It will help more of the people who need it to find it. See you next week for more tips and inspirational stories to help you do more than therapy.