Jo, Emily and Andy discuss a smorgasbord of media news today: from the explosive boardroom shenanigans at Disney to Netflix's dilemma about animation.

Speaker 1

Hello and welcome to the Kids Media Club podcast. In this series we talk about what's happening in kids media from Roblox to Disney and beyond. I'm Andy Williams.

Speaker 2

And I'm Joe Redfern. And today we're going to be talking about the big news of the week, the change in leadership at Disney, among other things. And then come on to kind of how that kind of impacts and why the trends in discoverability, literally this huge discoverability problem that lots of platforms seem to be having. So we're here again with Emily Horgan, and we'll kick off this week's podcast.

Speaker 3

Yeah. Hi, everyone. I'm Emily Horgan. I'm an independent media consultant. And yeah, I mean, the biggest news this this week is undoubtedly the Disney leadership change. Chapek is Bob Chapek, his butler, the Bob's Bob Jacob Show. Back inside. Bob Iger is back in. I mean, there's so much analysis going on about this right now. There's so much like press based hysteria.

Speaker 3

It is a big move. Obviously, Disney have had the worst quarters ever in their last latest earnings call. But the the path for Bob Chapek has been bumpy since the start. I mean, obviously, he came in to Disney literally at the cusp of the pandemic, probably a bit unbeknownst blindsided by that, that how great that that a great upside in terms of streaming was supercharged by the pandemic.

Speaker 3

Speaker 3

And so it's been it's been a wild ride for Chapek. There's no question about that. I think a lot of the issue has been is the way he's handled it is his his personality. Sorry, Bob, not you. It's it's your personality on the oh, excuse me podcast. But yeah, it's just been it's been crazy. So very, very difficult time for him I think.

Speaker 2

Yeah. And what do you what do you make of the timing of the announcement? Because Andy and I were having a bit of debate about this this week in terms of I just happened to wake up at 4 a.m. on Monday morning and show my LinkedIn and kind of let up with the news. And it seemed an odd time to make an announcement on the Sunday evening before Thanksgiving week, which implied that it might have happened rather quicker than you'd have thought.

Speaker 2

But then, you know, Andy makes the point that he's had a bit of a PR problem for a while. But what's your what's your sense in terms of that whole all coming to a head seemingly rather quickly, the back end of last week?

Speaker 3

You know what, I think most people who happened to be awake on that Monday, like you're not the only one, Joe I know like three or four other UK based people who were like, Oh, I happened to be awake. Elizabeth and I'm like, Oh gee, I was waiting to text. It's like five. I'm like, What are y'all doing?

Speaker 3

Timing very quick. I think from him personally, for me, I think it was a case of Iger finally agreeing to come back. And I think once that was in scope, because I had read as recently as this month, he had said to people, it's not going to happen. And I think probably he gave like he opened the little you opened the door a little bit to kind of considering and the board were just like, okay, in signing you getting this deal done before you have an idea, have any notion of, you know, giving this a second thought, I think that to me feels right.

Speaker 3

I mean, the Chapek thing is interesting. The board renewed him in June. They could have just let it all peter out. Maybe there wasn't another option. I think that's something that has been, you know, a challenge. This like the succession of Iger to Chapek was is another story. But what how to replace Chapek has been tricky. Iger is probably the only easy answer or the only kind of appealing answer, because anything else would have been, you know, people internally to the company.

Speaker 3

Everyone kind of there seems to be this feeling that there wasn't a clear successor. They're not under his guard. And yeah, not enough barbs. Too many bob for the broth.

Speaker 1

Yeah, Peter Rice was kind of in the frame. He's a he's a Brit. Maybe because he's called Peter, not Bob. Maybe that was a kind of an obstacle Blake got on is I sort of had I felt the kind of the the hourglass the sands were kind of drained in a way from the moment the Chapek kind of mishandled the whole thing with Florida and the don't say gay kind of episode.

Speaker 1

I felt that was a kind of a disaster of culturally. And he just managed to amplify that story in a way that didn't do any good. I felt and I felt that there was there was a kind of cultural mismatch between him and the and the brand. It felt. I mean, the other thing I thought was probably an off the cuff remark, and it would have been fine if it had it been another studio.

Speaker 1

But Chapek, saying that only kids watch animated movies felt like a kind of such a careless comment to make you feel the head of Disney is the it seemed bizarre. And so I felt that when the numbers weren't going his way, he couldn't really rely on the support of the of the company really is gone my feeling.

Speaker 2

Yeah and it certainly seems like he lost the support of some key people, particularly in like two weeks. You know, I was reading rumors of people approaching the board saying they were going to quit if Chapek didn't go. So, you know, clearly he lost the dressing room, to use that analogy. But I want to come back to Kenneth.

Speaker 2

You know, it seemed several people, you know, after the Ferrari, a die down saying, well, really, Chapek was only steering the ship whose course had been set by Iger anyway. And with the exception of a couple of things that he did, you know, reorganizing the distribution business and putting Kareem Daniel in now really, he was just carrying on what had already been set in train.

Speaker 2

Do you not think that's right, Andy?

Speaker 1

I don't know enough about kind of who was kind of fingerprints on kind of which key decisions.

Speaker 3

Yeah. I mean, I have to say, for me, I honestly think it boils down to that personality issue. Right. Like so yes, I see it, Joe. Right. Like on was I was there like the whole streaming first approach was Iger's and you know, you can argue the reorg under Kareem really alienated creatives. But the bottom line is Chapek made the company put streaming first.

Speaker 3

And that is a strong call, you know. Right, right or wrong, it feels like it was the right direction. It was the direction they should be going in. And I think it's this personality thing that is the thing that's going to make, again, the Florida the Florida issue and the like that would have been there for any CEO to deal with, you know, and it would have been it was always going to be tricky and messy for Disney to integrate with that with that situation.

Speaker 3

And it's just that his personality on top of that is the problem. And again, dealing with dealing with the the kind of tone deaf presentation of earnings, you know, in the last month, like trying to spin it like it's all everything's positive and then having this kind of reactionary moment after earnings, like not understanding the kind of the presentation of the issue, why that matters that emotional intelligence to see the the see the dressing room, if you know what I mean, rather than I would argue the hard decisions within the within themselves, because there was always going to be hard decisions in the entire in the entire the entire tenure of CEO Disney are huge

Speaker 3

company. They had made this massive pivot the pandemic hit on top of that. You know politics in the US and everywhere is going more you know, the right wing, the surge of the right wing and and and that kind of the issues that come with that are all part of it. So, you know, those are always going to be difficult calls and I don't think I don't think you can say that the thing he did was the biggest mistake ever, you know, other than the gaffes that he's made.

Speaker 3

Do you know what I mean? So, like, we're yet to see whether these other policies are going to net out or not, you know, but they were always going to be hard decisions. It was always they were never going to be 100% right. There's nothing that you can say you did that 100% wrong other than his presentation and his personality and how he's handled those as a kind of figurehead, I would say.

Speaker 1

Yeah, I think that's I think that's absolutely right. And there's a lot of chatter on social media that part of the problem is that he came from parks. As I understand it. And there's some people kind of proposing that actually you need somebody that comes from more from the entertainment side of the business to run something like Disney.

Speaker 1

That the if you are in charge of the parks, basically you're in charge of a kind of an enormous operation, whereas when suddenly you'll see Disney, you're having to deal with a lot of talent that has kind of high profile and visibility and and is a different negotiation if you're dealing with that kind of talent versus the talent that works for you in the parks.

Speaker 1

Yeah. I mean, and I think that's one of the things that he his personality didn't quite fit with really.

Speaker 3

Yeah, I think that's fair. I mean, the kick off of Chapek kind of the question mark for me was the Scarlett Johansson, you know, the pay issue there, the pay she's there with Black Widow, you know, and then the kind of generalized attack on her very publicly about, you know, how dare she want to get paid when people aren't being you know, people are losing their jobs.

Speaker 3

You know, as Disney extract whatever for shout truth, right? Like, you know, it was it was it was badly handled. And he thought he was invincible and he thought he was bigger than, you know, these these bigger than bigger, whatever. Like, it it just it was it's not it was badly handled. And it's honestly not what Disney shareholders have been used to have been used to under Iger, you know, the the pure polish of Iger in those situations.

Speaker 3

Never really ever in my memory ever setting a foot wrong in that sense. So very different for them to kind of digest. So yeah, I do feel like that's, that's a real question, you know, and again, it boils down to personality, you know.

Speaker 2

And then I mean, it's interesting looking at Disney, but let's not forget it doesn't exist in isolation. And would you mentioned Wall Street there. And it's interesting because you know what? The stock price rallied a bit as soon as they announced Iger was back, you know, and but, you know, Netflix stock is also down 50 odd percent year on year.

Speaker 2

You know, actually, Disney's is only down 36 when I looked this morning, which actually means it's faring slightly better than Netflix. You've got Warner Brothers that a 57% down roadblocks to another platform, you know, 70% down. So actually they're not on their own in this. They are navigating to use that, you know, kind of maritime analogy. Again, choppy seas.

Speaker 2

But you know, it, you know, Wall Street is looking for people to come and kind of grow stream of subs numbers. Well, you know, that's getting ever harder. So really, you know, doesn't that make Bob Iger's job this next two year search for a successor even more difficult? Who's going to want that job?

Speaker 1

Well, there's an interesting theory that's been floated on social media than either you call. And I'm sure it's kind of nonsense. But like his reputation as a dealmaker is kind of unsurpassed that, you know, he made the deal with Pixar, made the deal with Lucas and made the deal with Marvel. And some people have been speculated that he's been brought back to basically sell Disney to Apple.

Speaker 3

The Disney Apple Apple Apple conversation has been around for a while, and it's easy to simplify it. It's easy to see the alignment, you know, it's easy to see the brand alignment. It's easy to see, you know, the relationships and stuff that have existed through the Pixar deal and etc. that sit there. That's clear to me to see.

Speaker 3

The thing is right for me is that there had to be a question about JPAC. Right. And he was never going to pick his own successor because, you know, he would have had this vision of having a long term, you know, stewardship of the company. So bringing Iger back back in opens the doors to lots of these other executives who were in the lane for this job over the years.

Speaker 3

And you mentioned Peter Rice and he left in June. I don't think Alan Horn to be part of it because he's more of a studio creative person. But you know, even the conversations with the likes of, you know, Tom Staggs and Kevin Mayer over at Campbell kind of media that's going to be complicated, is not totally straightforward. But like Jay Pitt, like there was never going to be succession with Jay back.

Speaker 3

They had to stay with him. And so with Iger, they got a second chance to pick that. Obviously, the problem with that being the one thing Iger bundled in the whole in his whole tenure was succession. You know, there was two or three times before where he was due to stepped down. He didn't there was two or three people heir apparent who then, you know, had left the company, moved on to the stuff, you know, no, the joint.

Speaker 3

And then they maybe could have been better candidates. So there's been this kind of hesitancy, this kind of yeah, this hesitancy from him to to double down and to be decisive about it. And then he was decisive and it turned out to be the wrong person. It would seem so. At least it resets the opportunity a bit, but it's still his kind of monkey on his back.

Speaker 3

And it's been a monkey on his back probably for the past five years. There's more to develop on this story, and there already is of the cream Daniels gone, and I think there's going to be far more that's going to be happening in the next few weeks, and then it'll be a little bit longer before we see what the vision is.

Speaker 3

But there has to be one there because there's no way he would have come back just to hang himself. He's got to stop before that.

Speaker 1

Yeah. And already he's the changes that he's made indicate that he kind of wants to align around creatives and storytellers in a way that he feels like those areas are maybe being alienated a bit. Over the over the recent recent period, I saw somebody saying, Kareem Daniel, who's the chairman of the media that was was let go blogger, was responsible for kind of blocking any theatrical release for lucre and turned him red.

Speaker 1

And and so some people are interpreting that as a kind of a way to maybe that indicates a change in attitude in terms of theatrical releases for Pixar.

Speaker 2

Mm hmm. Interesting. Yeah. I mean, I did know that one of the first things Iger did was bring it back to that kind of the core values of Walt, which was a real kind of, you know, dog whistle to all of the Disney, you know, you know, we're bringing it back. And, you know, but it worked. You know, I saw any number of employees on Twitter then celebrating that.

Speaker 2

So be interesting to see if they they rally around him as he executes his plan for succession. It's like in time.

Speaker 3

Yeah. Let's not make it the third time. Bob. Time, stir.

Speaker 2

Time.

Speaker 3

Yeah. Yeah. That's interesting what you heard on the I hadn't, I hadn't heard that narrative right Luca and turning red as part of this you know, granted I hadn't been maybe being on Twitter as much as you have in the past two days because I you've been following this very closely. But yeah, that's you know, that that's an interesting example.

Speaker 3

I think turning red at the time was the question as to whether it could have had a real potential. Luca Probably less so.

Speaker 2

And in terms of where we can, you know, we've we've analyzed the Disney shenanigans and I think there's probably more to come, as you said, in the next few weeks of that. But I'm keeping on the animation theme. Let's talk about how well the and how animation is faring over at Netflix, which is another topic that we've spoke about in the past in terms of they they don't seem to have quite nailed it yet, Emily.

Speaker 2

And this is something you look at a lot.

Speaker 3

Keeping on the theme of bull rambling. Yeah, no, this is this is a really interesting development I'm seeing in Netflix. I wouldn't have predicted this, by the way, the animated movies have there's multiple data points as to how they perform well in streaming. We've seen lots of animated movies cut through, obviously easily for Disney, but for for Netflix as well.

Speaker 3

I was really excited about this period leading into Christmas where there was like a ton of very, very highly feted animated movies hitting the service. You know, maybe a question on their broad commercial appeal, but definitely really clear on the in the kind of creative the creative chops of them. So it started with Wendell and Wild, which didn't feature in the Global Top Ten and went on Wild was kind of door jammed between kids and adults.

Speaker 3

It's an animated movie, but it has a PG 13 rating, so it's not available in the kids section of Netflix. And that hasn't been an issue for the kind of broad family live action movies that they've run out, like The Atom Project. Enola Holmes two, for example, right now is big. The House for good and evil. You know, that's kind of served live action movies.

Speaker 3

That is, they've had that PG 13 plus rating and they've sort of in the broad and adult were the non kid section whereas Wendell and while that seems to have totally handicapped us now, it's a tricky film you know like it's it's definitely edgy. It's, you know, subject matter is, is in depth, you know, like it's it it it, it deserves a PG 13 rating, but that was one that was the first one that was like, where is that?

Speaker 3

Why are we not seeing performance for that? Since then, we've seen other big ones, which include Richard Linklater's Apollo ten and a half and My Father's Drive-In from Cartoon Saloon. Haven't hit any of those global top tens yet. The global top ten I viewed and and there's also been a few other you know more clear you know more clear really broadly targeting animated movies so things like Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, the movie, the soccer football movie, like none of these are featured.

Speaker 3

Unlike like the Netflix global top 10 hours viewed has been around for over a year now like nearly 18 months. And we've seen things like chicken hair and the hamster of darkness. One of my favorite films referenced, you know, The Jungle Movie, The Jungle Jungle Beat movie. Like we've seen it, we've all we've often seen. Okay. Yes, we've seen the big pay on, you know, movies like Minions and and even even when they're in their in their Windows Minions and Dragon and stuff feature.

Speaker 3

We saw the CBS feature, their biggest animated movie to date, but we have seen these other smaller, you know, I'd say B-list but you know they're just they're straight to TV animated movies hit in and so it's quite surprising that we haven't seen this with with the movies that are coming out coming out right now. So I don't know if it's like a prioritization of the algorithm.

Speaker 3

I just just feel there is maybe a question on the the broad appeal of the movies, but are they being marketed correctly or are they being you know, are they being watched? How are they being served? How are they being like how how is sampling able to happen for for that audience? And maybe it's part of a bigger question about discovery on the platform as well.

Speaker 3

So it's just it's a head scratcher for me. I was super excited too. Like, I put charts on all of this and now I need something else to post a link to because I don't have any data, so.

Speaker 2

So you have views on, on the promo and the discoverability and it's clear that there is a discovery discoverability issue at Netflix. I don't do this as a discoverability problem in general, just with the sheer amount of stuff there is there for us to watch, play and engage with. But and you had some thoughts on discoverability on Netflix.

Speaker 2

And given that it's part of your background, what are your views on it?

Speaker 1

Yeah. So yeah, I kind of my background was I started in prime on air promos when you had some of more linear scheduled kids channels. And the advantage there is that you could really build awareness for a new show that the audience were coming to, that they didn't have any kind of there's no legacy to that show. You could kind of build awareness and kind of really tease it.

Speaker 1

And and by the time it was on air, the audience had encountered kind of countless trailers for promos for it. And they already kind of had a taste for what the show was going to be like. You could kind of you could teach them why they were going to love this show or this movie. And with the streamers, it's not quite as easy.

Speaker 1

You don't have that kind of framework to really be able to do that. You don't encounter promos in the same way and that they've kind of had that very data driven. The audience will tell us kind of what's working. We'll build it and they'll come back for a quirky, unusual movie or series. I just don't think you can rely on the audience to just come to it cold.

Speaker 1

And I think they they need some way in which you can kind of show them and of why they're going to love My Father's Dragon or Wendell and Wild. And I think and I think that's a that's a real challenge for the streamers.

Speaker 2

Yeah. I think it extends to platforms like roadblocks as well in terms of this almost choice paralysis where there is so much that actually it's really difficult for the audience, the viewers, the players to to make a choice without having been given a little bit more information, which, you know, in your case, Andy, is the on air promos, you know, give us a reason to choose this product.

Speaker 2

It's marketing 1 to 1. And I wonder if the you know, these platforms, Netflix, Disney, Warner Brothers, roadblocks included have kind of lost sight of that thinking, like you say, rather throw up everything and will please everyone. And actually, at the end of the day, the pleasing no one.

Speaker 3

Yeah, yeah. It's a tough one, isn't it? Because I mean, the obvious thing to me as a marketer is like, if you want to sell a movie, show the movie, like show the show, right? So that's that's the obvious way of doing it. And there's only so far like thumbnails and stuff can, can bring you other discovery methods and streaming it.

Speaker 3

They still feel very much in their infancy. You know, it's thumbnails at the end of a show, it's top ten trending, it's top ten Most Liked I know I definitely saw recently on you know in some of those user you is like top ten most liked top ten comedies like trying to curate things into those kind of kinds of lists, daily recommendations, obviously new, you know, but it still feels very much in its infancy.

Speaker 3

I mean, Netflix have used YouTube to push that sampling in in an audiovisual way. They've obviously premiered episodes there. So it still feels like there's something missing. I don't I wonder if the about the ad supported tier will offer an opportunity for that kind of promotion. I do think if it does that, that could have real, real, real potential.

Speaker 3

But it is also one thing when you think of YouTube, because I don't think there is that issue on YouTube. Right? Like we kind of know it's a perfect platform, but it's very good at serving you, serving you more of what you want to see and you don't that paralysis, you it's easy to go to a YouTube hole sometimes it's not that easy to go do it.

Speaker 3

And Netflix, all you put on Netflix seem like never going to turn little once, you know, whereas in YouTube, like platforms like YouTube and arguably Tik Tok, they lead you daily. So they get your they get your tastes, the kind of get maybe what mujer and even a bit more and I suppose on on YouTube as well. It's you know, obviously there is a huge there's there's a certain amount of the content on there is seeing a vast amount of the views but at least the algorithm is open source in terms of people kind of understand what you need to do.

Speaker 3

They kind of understand what you need to do to cut through. There's a few strategies and tactics. Yes, they'll change as algorithms are treated, stuff like that. But at least there's a way of having control. Whereas with platforms like streamers like Netflix and probably the same as Roblox Joe, you gave your content to them and then you don't really see you don't have really any your ability to impacted is kind of limited.

Speaker 2

Yeah yeah I agree. I think, you know, you look at roadblocks and there are 50 odd million experiences on the platform, but and such a small percentage of those are huge, but they do take the lion's share of traffic. One of the things I have discovered in road blocks that I think is interesting is and and Netflix use it to it's your friends are watching and actually yeah that's quite a powerful driver but I think even then in a sense that's going to become increasingly less effective because kids these days and young people these days are not really they're not as motivated by FOMO as we we were wanting to belong to them.

Speaker 2

I know I'm an individual. I'll make my own choices. Thanks. So, you know, again, I think it's and it's interesting that the those people that curate and write algorithms have really got to know their audience intimately to be able to create that algorithm to service them. And I think maybe Tik Tok do it really well. I think YouTube do it very well.

Speaker 2

I think it also has to do with the, you know, the interface and actually that coming back to that choice paralysis, it's very easy to go down a rabbit hole on Tik Tok because it's a vertical scroller. You know, I sit there sometimes in Netflix and see this sea of thumbnails and end up just walking away because I remember.

Speaker 3

Watching Rewatches of like CSI because it's on linear. I need to flick back to your box. Yeah. I think that, that, that idea of FOMO because that seems to be there seems to be two clear ways and you see this on social that networks and interests are defined. One is through your social network, right? So Facebook going this route and certainly this is the first that we know that they're going to like this, whereas the thing that Tik Tok is going to revolutionize is your interests, right?

Speaker 3

If you're interested in something very niche like Excel talk, I've talked about the buzz. I like Excel talk, you know, but they get they get your interest and they're able to pull you down that way rather than it being about where you're connected and what that means. I'm not sure streamers have got that interesting. Right. And I don't know whether it takes more watching because you need to be able to look at Wendell while say, well, if you watched this show, this show or this show, we think you'll like that.

Speaker 3

You know, you should you should look at this because we think it's going to be something that you're into. It feels like there's something not connecting in terms of interest there on stream and I don't know if it's the same on Roblox do.

Speaker 2

I think it possibly is? You know, I think we've come through this period of all of these platforms that bandwidth is so huge. You know, it used to be with linear, you had a certain amount of real estate. And actually we've come through this period where we've got streamers and we've got roadblocks that have elastic sides. So you can you can see loading more.

Speaker 2

But, you know, again, I don't know whether it's a true macro trend or just my hunch, but, you know, I think then you look at the success of things like Bluey and realized that actually we might then be coming through that quality at quantity and back to quality over quantity. And I wonder if we're on the cusp of that kind of point in the cycle again, where as we've come through this voracious appetite for content on these platforms that can withstand vast amounts of it, and we're almost all kind of like rabbit in the headlights because we we we all paralyzed by this choice.

Speaker 2

And then what do we do? We revert back to things that we know, like the Minions movie enjoying that can access or we go for something that is might not be there in such volume but actually is a quality bar above. I don't know if you guys would agree with that.

Speaker 1

Yeah. Makes sense. I think it makes a lot of sense.

Speaker 3

Yeah. It's always a hard one though. The rolling the dice on those kind of like franchises. I thought content, my thought, you know, we're all in the game in the in the space that we're in. We're all in the game to make content we think is good, you know, and you always believe in what you're making. But landing, it is like that perfect storm of like, you know, that it appeals in the various ways like Bluey does, you know, it's preschool, but parents can be into it.

Speaker 3

Yeah, it's Australian, but they've managed to get it just the right way, that it's super charming because of that, you know, it's just such a yeah, if we all had the magic formula, we'd all be millionaires.

Speaker 2

MM Did do you think that streaming services are beginning to care more about quality over quantity?

Speaker 3

I think they're I think the difference is that there's a difference per streaming for a streaming service right now. You know, Apple TV plus definitely in quality. I really feel that they have they commission kids shows that have an inherent good that seems to that just strikes me as what they what they are always looking for in their kids shows and everything I've seen them commission there's always like you know the kids on socio emotional kind of learning you know, really good, real goodness, which again totally was a.

Speaker 2

Great example of that.

Speaker 3

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Stillwater as well, you know. And that totally aligns with Apple and is the right thing for them to be doing for sure. I think obviously Disney has its legacy. You know, they know kids, right? They're going to continue doing what they what they do fantastically, which is creating the best content, whether it's set solely on their own by or it's, you know, acquisitions of things like Bluey.

Speaker 3

But before Bluey, you know, they were instrumental in PJ masks, they were instrumental in Miraculous Ladybug. Like they have actually had their finger, their finger prints on a number of the biggest franchises, even though you don't necessarily they're not Disney franchises directly. Netflix. My concern is that they are going to go down the the kind of the lowest common denominator, right.

Speaker 3

With kids content, which means taking later licenses, less exclusivity over the content that just works, you know, so Cocomelon just works will take it at scale. It's proven we're going to take it. We don't mind that everyone has it, but we're just going to have it. Little Angel. And then like later, later, windows of, you know, movies like obviously the DreamWorks, the DreamWorks and Illumination deal with them seems to be flowing quite robustly.

Speaker 3

They obviously have that deal with DreamWorks on the animation on an animated series. I think they'll continue that because it's just been such a long standing collaboration. And I don't think the NBC Universal streaming strategy is in a place where that's going to end up being challenged. There was a question about that probably two years ago, but I think the answer is probably they'll they'll continue to arm still that DreamWorks content out but they'll kind of go through the low hanging fruit rather than trying to strike out on their own and create their own franchises.

Speaker 3

I you know, I've been watching it for obviously for a while in depth. And I don't think that that's what they're really going to do. And this change with animated movies in this kind of like it seems to fit with that with that journey. I'd love to be wrong. I'd love Netflix to go and become the franchise machine and become Disney like they said they wanted to do for many years.

Speaker 3

But I, I think they've looked at it and they've looked at the price and they've looked at the medicine that I want to take it.

Speaker 1

Yeah. I mean, for me, I kind of feel like with Netflix it's kind of whether they want to be HBO or Walmart and I think they want to be Wal Mart, really. They want to be a place where you can have there's a variety of different things. There isn't really an over arc in brand value to all of the content.

Speaker 1

I think that's kind of where they're going. Really odd in a way. I'd prefer if they said, You know what, this this is what a Netflix animated movie is. These these are the brand values of the next Netflix animated movie. But I can't see it kind of those consistent kind of principles across the stuff that they're commissioning.

Speaker 3

But they were at one stage, though, right? Like, you know, with things like Souls Over the Moon, even the Seabiscuit stuff. But then it's like it just seems to be, like I said, a bull fumble since the movie. Too hard to like just DreamWorks illumination. Just give us your movies. Will pay you for them. Thank you.

Speaker 1

Yeah. Yeah. And it's and I kind of yeah, I kind of feel like that's a bit of a missed opportunity because. Yeah, like you said, I think there was a kind of as a brand value to some of that stuff.

Speaker 3

But it also doesn't always have to be a star quality. You know, like I think, you know, they've done this great work with their teen movies where they're, you know, they're creating them at scale and volume and and they're fitting. They're meeting that genre. They're you know, it could have been like the likes of, you know, chicken hair in the hamster of darkness, like, go for those, go for the silly animated movies and but market them properly.

Speaker 3

But like, if you create a home, those kind of direct to direct TV or direct to DVD movies like there's that that's there's value there, you know, like that's yeah, that's that's something people aren't really focusing on right now is animated movies that can be a bit a bit cheaper, a bit, you know, and maybe they can build into like a bit of a franchise and support kids and you know, like there's opportunity there.

Speaker 3

Barbie have been doing it for years and you know, things like Transformers have been doing that kind of thing for years. So I think there's space there.

Speaker 2

I think is a good point. I hadn't really considered that kind of Netflix almost has an identity problem as a brand, hasn't quite decided what it wants to be yet, whether it wants to have an identity and stand for something, or whether it just wants to be the kind of the way through.

Speaker 3

Wal-Mart. Yeah, I like. Yeah, that was a good analogy, Andy. Good on. Yeah. It's not your own. Or did you get it off Twitter? I don't.

Speaker 1

Know. I think it was. Was I saying it's like.

Speaker 2

I think tweet.

Speaker 3

Tweet, tweeted before someone else. So that's good.

Speaker 2

Yeah, definitely the subject for a future podcast, I think. Well, I think that brings it to a close, doesn't it? I think we've covered quite a lot of ground there, actually, all seemingly interlink, but in this crazy world we're in, which we all work. So thank you very much for joining us. And yeah, listen into the next episode of The Kids Media put the podcast soon.

Speaker 1

Thanks very much.

Speaker 3

Thanks, guys.