"True freedom is owning who you are, unfiltered, unapologetic, and fiercely confident." - Kyai
"People pleasing should not be meant for self soothing." - Angel
In this episode, Jenny puts on her previous high school English teacher hat and reconnects with her former students, Angel and Kyai, who are now navigating their senior year of college. They discuss the concept of being a people pleaser and how it’s impacted their lives as college students and as people who are neurodivergent (ADHD-focused tips included in this episode!)
Angel, who is studying psychology with a pre med concentration, shares his journey to understanding people pleasing and setting boundaries. He shares interesting facts connecting healing with brain science and how to create new habits effectively.
Kyai, a music therapy student, talks about combining her love for music and helping people, while also overcoming her own people pleasing tendencies. She shares ways that music and meditation can help foster healing within ourselves.
Their conversation delves into the challenges of breaking free from ingrained habits, the importance of self-awareness, and practical techniques for managing emotions and setting boundaries. They also talk about cultural norms and social expectations that feed the need to people please. Kyai and Angel share their unique perspective as Gen Z college students while touching on their generation’s culture of self awareness and the importance of mental health.
Resources Mentioned in the Episode:
About The Guests:
Kyai Ward
Kyai is a 21-year-old Music Therapy vocal major at Charleston Southern University. She is passionate about equality and justice, serving on the queer youth approval board for Charleston’s LGBTQ foundation, “We Are Family.” Alongside her studies, Kyai teaches piano and voice, and she will soon be completing her internship with Charleston Music Therapy LLC.
Kyai 's Facebook page, @Trippihippie405 on Instagram
Angel Rivera
Hi my name is Angel Rivera. I’m an undergraduate student at the University of South Carolina studying Psychology with a Pre-Med concentration. I indulge in my studies as I find power and solitude in knowledge. New experiences are always fulfilling and I love learning new things. Studying the patterns within the world around me helps me understand the patterns within myself.
About The Host:
Interested in being a guest on the show? Email Jenny: info@meditatewithjenny.com
Copyright 2024 Jenny Leckey LLC
Wow.
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:Senior year for both of you.
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:It's crazy.
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:Yes.
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:I can't believe all that you have both
accomplished so far and your what?
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:21 years?
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:That's just amazing to me.
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:And as your former teacher, those
of you who are listening, you're
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:like, who are these people?
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:They're two amazing former students
of mine who are now off pursuing their
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:dreams in college and then beyond.
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:that.
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:So that's A perfect time to introduce
yourselves to whoever wants to go first.
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:Angel: Yeah, of course..
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:My name is Angel Rivera.
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:I grew up in Myrtle Beach, and
I also grew up in the Bronx.
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:Right now I'm in school studying
psychology with a premed concentration
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:and a minor neuroscience.
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:So I'm definitely more science
busy, more medical busy.
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:But that's because I want to try
to pursue a career in psychiatry.
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:I went into psychology first to
learn more about Human behavior.
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:And also because I feel like I had a lot
of tendencies and people pleasing and I
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:feel like that was one of the reasons why
I went into psychology was to understand,
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:like, why am I feeling like I need
to put other people before myself.
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:That's what been going on
with while being at USC.
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:And like I said, one more year and
then I'll be on to medical school.
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:Jenny: That is phenomenal.
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:I can't wait to hear what you have to
say about the neuroscience aspect of it.
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:I love learning about the brain, so
I can't wait for you to share what
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:you've learned about people from
a psychological point of view.
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:Kyai: How about you?
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:Kyai?
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:Yeah.
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:So my name is Kyai Ward.
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:I'm from Conway, South Carolina, and
I go to Charleston Southern university
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:and I'm studying music therapy
and yeah I've always loved music.
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:since a very young age.
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:And I've also just always
loved helping people.
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:And so music therapy is
definitely putting that together.
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:It's bringing psychology in with music and
I think it's really cool and I love it.
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:Jenny: It's amazing how you
both found perfect fits.
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:Angel: I love the fact that Kyai is
going through that field, because it also
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:combines a little bit of like somewhat
what I'm doing, because I did a lot
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:of clinicals at a medical facility,
I did see a lot of music therapists
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:go in there and, help treat patients.
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:For example, I saw a woman that came in
with a harp, and she was going to help a
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:patient that I was dealing with leukemia.
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:That was just very sweet and wholesome.
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:And I'm just like, oh man, that's
something that Kyai is going to be doing,
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:is going into certain facilities and stuff
and providing that type of treatment.
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:And I love it.
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:It's amazing.
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:Jenny: I love the fact that
you're both willing to be
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:vulnerable and talk about this.
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:I can't wait to learn your point of
view, being from a different generation.
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:of a generation that grew up fully
on technology, which I think has just
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:changed how we socialize in general.
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:So I'm dying to hear not only
your experiences about people
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:pleasing, but even how you define
it, how it shows up in your life.
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:So I guess we could
start at the beginning.
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:when did you realize that
you were a people pleaser?
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:Angel: I feel like that's very difficult.
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:I would say middle of high
school, whenever TikTok was
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:starting to become a big thing.
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:TikTok became such a good a media hub for
different types of content and different
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:types of certain behaviors that can
be matched up to like people pleasing.
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:So I would see funny little,
skits of people pleasing behaviors.
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:And I feel like some basic ones
are, just not knowing how to
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:say no whenever somebody might
ask for something from you.
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:I might ask Hey, could you come
to eat dinner with me on this time?
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:And you might have a conflict, but you
want to put that person's feelings first.
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:And it might be putting a
funny skit in TikTok, but that
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:was something I related to.
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:So that was one way that
I really figured it out.
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:Jenny: Oh, wow.
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:To think that someone was just creating
this little creative video project
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:and it literally woke something up in
you and literally changed your life.
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:Angel: Like a whole spiral.
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:I
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:Kyai: guess for me, now that I
think about it, I really think
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:I've always been a people pleaser.
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:And I think it stemmed from, me being
younger, wanting to be liked by people.
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:I have ADHD.
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:I'm on the neurodivergent side.
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:I didn't have too many friends.
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:I was always seen as like
the weird, crazy person.
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:It was high energy and always.
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:So I think it really stemmed from
wanting to have friends and wanting
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:people to accept me for my little
quirky or crazy personality.
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:I guess from grade school is
when I started people pleasing
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:wanting to be friends with
people and wanting to be liked.
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:Angel: Yeah.
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:I have a question though, like, when
did you start to recognize those
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:behaviors as something that's oh
that can be seen as people pleasing?
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:Kyai: Probably, okay, I would say probably
really recently, because I don't think
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:I recognize how much of a people pleaser
I am until I'm like, people ask me to
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:go somewhere and I'm like, Oh yeah,
I'll go, just to make them happy, but I
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:don't want to go, or I don't want to do
it, or, I don't want to consent to this
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:or that, or, and it's you really just,
Have to be in charge of your own mind.
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:I didn't realize that I wasn't
in charge of my own mind until
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:probably a couple of months ago.
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:Angel helps me all the time with this.
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:I asked him, like, am I
doing this because I want
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:to do it or am I doing this?
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:And he's babes you're doing
that for the other person.
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:Like, Do you really want to do this?
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:And I'm like, no.
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:So it really takes a lot of thinking.
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:I'm like, okay.
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:Do I want to do this?
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:Or do I want to just
make this person happy?
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:I need to put myself first, and
I need to do what I want to do.
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:Angel: I feel like it is a habit that
was ingrained, because the only reason
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:why I asked like when you recognized
it, was because I feel like it was a
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:habit that was instilled with me for
so long even since I was a child, and
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:that was just due to the environment
that I was put in, where I felt like
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:I needed to people please in order
to have that sense of security.
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:With also having ADHD, I feel like
my sense of rejection was so high,
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:that I didn't want to be rejected
by other people, and that would
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:make it Nobody understood why.
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:They were like, why are you so upset if
this group of people doesn't like you?
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:And I would just be like,
that's just how I feel.
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:I would go far beyond my reaches
and try to help out another person.
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:which means even putting on my own needs
first to have that validation and to have
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:that sense of security within myself.
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:But I know that for other people, it can
be very difficult to have that balance.
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:in general, because when you do
get that approval, it just fires
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:up those receptors in your brain
of let me keep on doing this.
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:It's a good reward.
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:If I keep on continuing with this
behavior, then I should be in the clear.
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:But really you should want to have
those receptors fire for yourself.
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:Kyai: Exactly.
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:Angel: Yeah.
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:Kyai: Or it's people will like me.
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:I want to do this more.
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:It's the feeling, but I've noticed
that I feel so much better when
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:I just do what I want to do.
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:I feel strong.
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:I feel powerful.
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:I am making my own decision.
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:I have so much power, it's crazy.
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:And I'm speaking like this because
I've literally just had a whole
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:recovery moment from people pleasing.
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:It was definitely ingrained in
me for a long time, I will say.
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:I was
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:Angel: say, Miss Leckey, have
you ever had experiences where
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:you've had people pleasing issues?
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:Jenny: Oh, yeah.
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:I actually just talked about
this in another episode
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:that I was such a good girl.
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:I was such a good student,
such a good employee.
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:Keep the peace.
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:You don't rock the boat.
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:Some of it is my personality,
but some of it is people pleasing
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:in that I was avoiding conflict.
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:I didn't want to rock the boat.
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:I just wanted to please, whoever
it is, my boss, my parent,
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:the teacher, whoever it was.
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:How self aware you are right now- I
was not that self aware at your age.
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:This is amazing.
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:I've just seen such a shift,
even in my decade of teaching.
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:I saw such a shift of self awareness.
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:I remember, discussions with my students
in the first year versus the last one.
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:I think we were studying to kill a
mockingbird and I was sitting around in
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:a circle discussing it and the students
took over And they got talking about
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:their personal biases and they were
saying, Oh no, that's just my ego talking.
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:That's not truly how I feel.
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:That's just, shading my perspective
and I'm what's going on.
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:This is amazing.
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:I know people in their sixties and
seventies don't even know what the ego is.
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:So the fact that you all are so self
aware and you're reflecting on what you're
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:doing and why you're doing it is amazing.
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:Angel: I feel like that's such a
good thing with our generation.
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:I feel like that's one thing
that we're so good at, is able
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:to self reflect and self identify.
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:Oh, like maybe look at it through this
perspective because of the life experience
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:that we've had, and that might not amount
to somebody else's life experience.
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:And that goes the same
way for people pleasing.
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:Not all people pleasing is the
exact same, because I feel like each
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:person has different experiences
that shape that to a certain degree.
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:We are good in that sense that we're able
to identify those behaviors and ourselves.
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:Yes.
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:I think it's also an issue because a
lot of my friends who go to therapy and
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:stuff the therapist always tells them
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:it's hard to even treat people who
are in our generation because we're
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:so self aware that it's like, why
don't we try to help ourselves?
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:But it can become a self fulfilling
prophecy of just trying to.
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:Help ourselves and understand ourselves,
but at the same time wrapping up into
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:those same habits again and again.
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:Jenny: Yes, the same thing with
my generation because we were the
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:first ones to really normalize
taking care of your mental health.
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:I feel like we're the therapy crusaders.
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:With that, I was just watching
this video and I felt so seen about
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:being an over intellectualizer.
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:Everything we were just talking about,
understanding how we feel and why we feel
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:it, is intellectualizing people pleasing.
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:But I think it perpetuates
still, because The only way to
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:heal people pleasing is to feel.
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:You can't think your way out of
people pleasing, and that's why I
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:love the phrase, Tolerate the tension.
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:Can I tolerate the tension
of saying no to someone?
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:If I can't tolerate that tension, I'm
never going to stop people pleasing.
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:I'm just not.
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:Angel: Yeah, it's getting used to that
feeling, almost like that guilty feeling,
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:but it's almost an automatic response.
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:And you are right, learning to
sit with that feeling and knowing
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:that's okay, and knowing that
it's not the end of the world.
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:The person's not gonna think that
you're a malicious person who's
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:trying to scheme against them.
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:Kyai: If they do think that,
then they're not your people.
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:Because if you just boundaries down to
say, hey, this is not what I want to
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:do, this is actually what I want to do.
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:If they really are upset about
that or they get offended, then
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:maybe they're not your people.
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:They should respect boundaries.
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:Jenny: It's true, and they should
have your well being at heart.
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:So if you're having to cancel
plans, even just simply because
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:I just don't have it in me.
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:If they care about you, they should
want your well being to come first.
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:Kyai: That's also true.
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:I was like To say It also feels so
good to say no Sometimes I'm like,
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:especially for me cause I'm just
learning that I can actually say no,
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:Jenny: no, no, no, no.
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:Angel: At first I wasn't comfortable with
it, but now I feel like the idea of owing
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:somebody an explanation is null and void.
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:You don't owe anybody an explanation.
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:If you don't want to go to an event,
or you don't want to do something
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:because you don't feel comfortable.
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:You don't owe anybody an explanation.
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:learning to be okay with that and just
saying no because you personally want to
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:put that boundary down is so impactful.
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:I try to do this like building
up day to day habits in life.
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:I just try to be as honest as I can with
how I'm feeling and communicate that
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:because if you don't communicate it,
then how is somebody going to realize
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:that you don't want to go to that.
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:Sometimes it is exhausting to
have to share your true feelings.
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:Where I feel like self
pleasing is the easy way to go.
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:Where you're just like, you know what,
I don't want to have to deal with it.
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:Let me just say yes and let me do it.
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:At first it was a lot of energy,
but now it's not a lot of energy
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:because I've learned to take that
reaction and feeling and mitigate it.
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:Because I'm realizing that it's
for me and it's for myself.
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:So how
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:Jenny: did you do that?
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:Do you have a technique or strategy
that's helped you process those
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:emotions when they come up?
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:What's something that people
can start doing when they
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:feel that tension or guilt?
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:Angel: What I mainly do is one, I
either distract myself where might
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:send a text message or I might,
send out an email, letting somebody
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:know and then I immediately.
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:Work on a puzzle or something, or
play Sudoku, or play, a small game to
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:distract my brain from those feelings,
but I feel like the better strategy
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:that I've learned to take on now is
to sit with that feeling, understand
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:it, process it, and try to calm myself
down from that initial response.
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:Deep breathing techniques, count down,
one, two, three, four, holding my breath,
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:and then one, two, three, four, out.
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:And then I do that for a
good 30 seconds to a minute.
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:I also do journaling afterward
throughout the day, to clear out those
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:feelings out on paper, to say, you
know, I did, I did feel uncomfortable,
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:but I did do these techniques, and
this is how I felt after I did it.
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:Kyai: Yeah.
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:Okay.
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:What else did you do?
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:I definitely would say journaling
too, and just trying to be more
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:self aware of like when I'm
wanting to please someone like me.
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:There's patterns with me.
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:I've noticed that I'll even people
please when it comes to Oh, what
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:restaurant or what food do you want?
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:And it's wait, but I already
have an idea of what I want.
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:Why don't I just tell them.
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:Or it'll be like, they
have a restaurant in mind.
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:They'll tell me and I really don't
want to go there, but I'm just
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:like, okay, let's just do that.
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:It starts with little things like that.
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:Angel's actually really
helped me with this.
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:I'll bring it back to him again.
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:He's super honest with me all the time.
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:I'm trying to be like that.
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:I'm like, do I want this?
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:No, I actually like this.
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:even if something's not funny.
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:I used to laugh at jokes that
I didn't think were funny.
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:When someone says something that's
wrong or out of pocket and I don't
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:have the courage to speak up or
speak my mind about something.
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:I just want to keep the peace yes,
in some situations it's not worth the
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:battle, but if they feel free enough
and comfortable and confident to speak
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:their mind, then who says I shouldn't.
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:Jenny: I don't know if you had this
experience as you started shifting
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:your behaviors since you're not so well
practiced at it I found myself like word
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:vomiting stuff out, or sometimes maybe my
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:boundary setting would be a
little more harsh than necessary,
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:just because I had to get it out
and I didn't know what to say.
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:So I was just like, No,
I don't want to arm.
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:Did you have that happen?
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:Angel: Yes, I would say all the time,
like, whenever I was first, because
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:I wasn't gonna say I had to build my
confidence pretty young, because I
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:came out during like middle school,
as gay, as like men, and then now going
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:into that I had to really know myself.
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:So then people could try to
put those labels onto me.
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:It was from a very young age and
getting to middle school, people would
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:be like, oh you're this and you're
that, because of this certain label.
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:At first I would take it because again, I
had those old people phasing tendencies
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:where I would be like, Oh, yes, sure,
just shrug it off and would ignore it.
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:But then as I became older, I was like,
no, I need to be more self assured and
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:let people know who I am and what I
identify as and who is me as a person
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:and what I do and what I don't like.
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:And at first, it did
come up as word vomit.
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:Or I would say oh no, cut people
off or if I disagreed with them or
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:I didn't want to be around their
energy, I would just not talk to them.
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:And that's not healthy either.
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:Completely shutting them out isn't
a way that you should do it either.
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:Just shutting somebody out
because of a boundary that they
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:didn't maybe know about from you.
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:That should be your responsibility.
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:How are they going to know
if you don't express that.
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:Learning to build that communication and
setting that boundary does take trial
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:and error, but After a couple years of
practicing that the best way I can and
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:learning for myself and learning from my
reactions I was able to go from Being
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:more shy and timid to like I know I am
and I am confident in it and you should
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:be able to Accept a yes or no for me.
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:Kyai: And then you have the people that
are used to you just people pleasing
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:then when you finally come out and
you're like, I'm setting my boundaries.
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:They get upset and they try to be like,
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:Angel: Oh, we never did this before.
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:And that's we're doing it now
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:Kyai: because it's I've never
slept with Andres before.
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:You're right.
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:Jenny: You're not playing the role
in their life that you used to.
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:And it rocks their world a little bit.
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:Angel: if people like that are upset
by those tendencies being taken away,
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:then it shows that they were using
those tendencies for their advantage.
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:A friendship should never be
something that, I'm always going
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:to expect this person to say yes, so
I'm just always going to ask them.
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:Kyai: Yeah and that could
be for any relationship.
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:Doesn't have to just be friends.
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:Family dating.
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:That could go for anything, I feel.
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:Angel: It's good to have mentors that
are in your corner and on your side,
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:that can look at these situations
from an outside point of view.
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:To see how they would have addressed
the situation, and how it could be, more
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:beneficial to me or less beneficial.
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:Jenny: That's a good point because
sometimes our emotions cloud our judgment.
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:Especially when you're doing something
so vulnerable like saying no to someone.
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:It helps to get someone else's
perspective and that helps you
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:see the bigger perspective.
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:Angel: That's why I love making
those connections, different people.
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:Because it's different ways
I can look at situations.
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:Obviously you shouldn't go for
your friends for every situation.
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:Try to build that inner guidance and
that inner self once you do that trial
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:and error of setting those boundaries.
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:But in the process of doing that, asking
for help and guidance is definitely
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:nothing you should , away from
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:.
Kyai: It's like you go to different people.
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:I would tell you, I only go to two people
that I trust with situations like that.
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:And that's Angel and , one of
my other best friends, Brooklyn.
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:And, I'll ask them, Hey,
is this the right thing?
358
:and I'll get both perspectives because
usually I'll have different perspectives
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:for each of them, like angels, usually
the more cutthroat no, this is wrong.
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:Like, because I can be too
nice, and I need that sometime.
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:And then Brooklyn's okay, wait,
let's see from their point of view.
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:And so it's you have both of them.
363
:Then I'll just meet in the middle and
make my decision of what I want to
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:do or how I want to take a situation.
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:Angel: I will say, I think that
Kyaia is always just saying that more
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:cutthroat only because I think another
thing with people pleasing is I've
367
:learned to stop myself whenever I've
known that there is no way that they
368
:can understand my perspective and
what I'm trying to share with them.
369
:For example, once you set a boundary,
if that person doesn't want to respect
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:that, then you can try explaining to
them a different way, to understand
371
:where you're coming from, but at
the end of the day, if they are not
372
:getting the boundaries that you're
setting, then there is no point in
373
:continuing with that relationship any
further, at least in my personal opinion.
374
:Kyai: I can't agree with that more
because I've recently been distancing
375
:myself from people too, that don't
feel aligned with me anymore
376
:because I'm figuring out myself.
377
:I'm becoming okay.
378
:You know, with what I believe in,
who I am and when you find your
379
:people it's almost like a new birth.
380
:You find your people, and you feel
like, what did you do without them?
381
:As opposed to the people that,
you backwards in a lot of ways.
382
:You know what I mean?
383
:And so, yeah it's definitely
a good feeling when you
384
:find your group of people.
385
:And you find who you are when
you're around those people.
386
:Because you can be who you are, Exactly.
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:Jenny: I wanted to ask you both, do
you all have any specific moments or
388
:memories or experiences where you were
first trying out setting boundaries
389
:and stopping the people pleasing?
390
:Angel: More recently I did have a
situation where this is a good moment
391
:for me I set a boundary and I was
really proud of myself because I
392
:feel like this is something that I
might have overlooked in the past.
393
:So recently I was in a previous
relationship and There was just
394
:something that they did that I didn't
feel personally comfortable with.
395
:Usually, in that instance, I would have
ignored it, and I would have not said
396
:anything to them, I would have, been
like, oh, no, it's fine, but I really
397
:didn't feel comfortable with that.
398
:We were in a closed space, and they were
being a little too affectionate to me,
399
:and I didn't really appreciate that.
400
:I decided to let him know the next day,
that I didn't feel comfortable with that.
401
:Had to set that foot down.
402
:And unfortunately he didn't,
understand that boundary.
403
:So I tried telling him a different way.
404
:That was something that I was
really proud of that I did put my
405
:foot down and say you know what?
406
:I don't feel comfortable with this
and I don't want this to occur again.
407
:And how was he going to
know unless I tell him?
408
:I was able to tell him.
409
:Now it's a lot better between us.
410
:Good for you.
411
:That's huge.
412
:That was a recent success that's really
good progress that I was able to make
413
:compared to maybe how I would be a couple
of years ago with certain relationships
414
:where I wouldn't say anything because I
wanted to keep that person in good graces.
415
:Jenny: Good for you for speaking up
because if you hadn't, that would
416
:have just built and built probably
would have happened again and again.
417
:And then anger and resentment
would have built up and then.
418
:Angel: Yep.
419
:I could have built this all up and could
have freaking exploded on him one day.
420
:And he would have been like
where is this coming from?
421
:But instead I took that feeling and I
was like, at least it's going to hurt
422
:now, but it's not going to hurt as much
as if I keep it in and save it for later.
423
:Jenny: Amazing.
424
:Angel: Let's get out of the way and rip
425
:Jenny: the Band Aid off.
426
:Yeah,
427
:Kyai: how
428
:Jenny: about you?
429
:Kyai: Yeah, so this was
actually really recent.
430
:This was a success.
431
:I'm a part of an organization that I don't
really feel is aligning with me anymore.
432
:they have shows all the time and they
asked me to do a gig and I would have
433
:said yes, but I have a concert with my
choir the day before and the day after.
434
:It's a lot.
435
:And also, it takes a lot of
energy working with people there.
436
:And I really had to Put my foot down.
437
:I even went to Angel.
438
:I was like, are they going to not like
me if there's this, that, and the third?
439
:Are they ever going to
ask me to do this again?
440
:And I was just like, I have
to do what's best for me.
441
:I'm in school, this is not a priority
for me, and after I said, no, I felt
442
:a weight, just come off my shoulders
because all my energy was so worked
443
:up about what am I going to say?
444
:How am I going to say this?
445
:how am I going to work around this?
446
:How am I going to, work it out?
447
:if I'm not able to do
something, I can't do it.
448
:I can't do everything.
449
:It made me much less stressed
about everything when I was
450
:able to just say I couldn't.
451
:How did they respond?
452
:And they didn't even respond bad.
453
:That is really what taught me to
not put so much energy into worry
454
:and, into working up about how am I
going to people please the situation?
455
:No, be honest.
456
:You don't even know the outcome of
what, is going to come out of it.
457
:Just be honest.
458
:And so that moment has
really helped me even more.
459
:I think a big milestone in recovery
for me and people pleasing and learning
460
:how to put that boundary and say no,
especially when I know that I'm going
461
:to be overwhelmed, and not even just
that, but if I don't want to do it.
462
:I don't have to do it.
463
:Jenny: Good for you.
464
:and not being consumed by the stories
that our brains like to tell us.
465
:Yeah.
466
:Our brains are very creative and
really like to create that narrative
467
:of how angry the person's going to be.
468
:Exactly.
469
:With all of that said, You're
both at a little bit different
470
:phases in your recovery.
471
:Do you have any daily habits that
you put in place to help you?
472
:Kyai: Yes, I'll definitely say journaling
has been a really big thing for me.
473
:Journaling at the end of my day,
even if it's not a day that I had
474
:to put my foot down or anything.
475
:Just letting my thoughts go
on paper helps me process.
476
:I also really enjoy meditating
when I can find the time to do it.
477
:I really enjoy clearing my head.
478
:What kind of meditation do you like to do?
479
:Not really guided.
480
:I've done guided before.
481
:I kind of like to just put on Some
meditation music on my TV or like
482
:beach sounds or stuff like that.
483
:And then I'll sit on my
carpet and clear my mind.
484
:When I meditate, I don't
want to think about anything.
485
:I just want to be in the moment and not
think I feel like, especially as a person
486
:with ADHD, my brain is always somewhere.
487
:And sometimes it's, it makes
it very difficult to even
488
:meditate because of that.
489
:So I think just clearing my mind,
how hard it may be anyway, I try
490
:to think of a safe, happy place.
491
:If my thoughts kind of wander,
I try not to be hard on myself.
492
:I just try and be graceful and trail my
brain back to where it's supposed to be.
493
:Cause I feel like if I'm hard on
myself, while I'm thinking I'm,
494
:I'm just going to get frustrated.
495
:Let me just put myself back
where I was and I'll continue
496
:our, you know what I mean?
497
:Nice.
498
:I
499
:Jenny: love that.
500
:What kind of journaling do you, are you
just like brain dumping kind of thing or?
501
:Yes, definitely
502
:Kyai: brain dumping.
503
:For my whole day, what I do I just.
504
:Start from the beginning of my day and
journal about everything I've done,
505
:how I thought about certain situations.
506
:I felt a certain way, whether
it be negative or positive, just
507
:getting it all out, helps to
process every event of my day.
508
:It's really been very helpful.
509
:Jenny: Thank you for sharing that.
510
:I'm sure that'll help
someone who's listening.
511
:Kyai: Yes.
512
:And one more thing.
513
:There's a podcast, the psychology of your
twenties, another really good podcast.
514
:And it goes into all kinds of mental
health issues with your twenties
515
:and just for the younger crowd.
516
:Like if, That has really helped me too.
517
:it just helps in validating how I feel
and yeah, I definitely recommend that.
518
:Jenny: Okay.
519
:I'll tag them in the show notes.
520
:Angel: Love that.
521
:I was going to say definitely take
out one of those habits, which is
522
:journaling, because I love to journal.
523
:That mainly helps what I have
in my brain throughout the day.
524
:And I put it into very short
sentences because I cannot
525
:focus for long journaling.
526
:I always thought journaling had to be,
like, oh my god a whole entire page of
527
:what your day was and blah, blah, blah.
528
:I avoided journaling for so long.
529
:I thought I had to do this big monologue.
530
:No, you don't have to.
531
:You can do a couple
sentences about your day.
532
:You can do a couple keywords and feelings.
533
:I'm more of a bullet list person.
534
:I just jot it down how I'm feeling.
535
:Even sometimes like draw out certain
images that make me feel a certain way.
536
:Almost like how I'm feeling inside.
537
:Also I listen to binarial beats.
538
:Sometimes that helps me out.
539
:I love binarial beats.
540
:And there's actually been studies
that have shown that it helps with
541
:neural connectivity and neural
synergy and helps with certain brain
542
:states and certain brain waves.
543
:Jenny: Can you explain to
everyone what they are?
544
:Angel: Binaural bass is almost
like you have two different
545
:frequencies in each ear.
546
:So for example, one headphone would have
a six hertz and another headphone would
547
:have ten hertz to get you into a lower
hertz frequency, which is mainly used for
548
:more sedative types of brain function.
549
:So for example, when you're going to
bed, you might put lower frequencies
550
:because those are lower vibrations
in your brain and that's how
551
:they can connect with each other.
552
:When you're sleeping, whenever you're on
more high alert, you might hit like the
553
:five hundreds or a thousand frequencies.
554
:And you can find a bunch
of them on YouTube.
555
:On Spotify.
556
:There's actually playlist I use
for people who have ADHD that
557
:specialize in high frequency sounds.
558
:I use it all the time to help
me focus on my different studies.
559
:it also helps me calm down on
certain tasks and behaviors and
560
:helps me build certain habits up.
561
:Jenny: Perfect.
562
:that sense sometimes.
563
:You might like the
guided meditations by Dr.
564
:Joe Dispenza.
565
:He has the ones you can buy an
audible breaking the habit of
566
:being yourself, but he has tons of
different guidance that you can get.
567
:I've had almost out of body
experiences with these and it's
568
:visualizing, but you go out of your
body and into like outer space, like
569
:you are floating out of your body.
570
:They're amazing and magical, and it's
like this full mind body spirit reset.
571
:They're wonderful, especially
if you're feeling really
572
:anxious or all over the place.
573
:I don't even know how to explain
them, you just have to experience it
574
:for yourself.
575
:I
576
:Angel: oh my God.
577
:I love that resource because
that sounds very therapeutic.
578
:It really is.
579
:Jenny: Yeah,
580
:It's different.
581
:But since you're already on that
path, I think you'll really like that.
582
:Angel: Definitely.
583
:Kyai: It's so funny.
584
:Like in music therapy, we
do guided imagery music.
585
:So we'll either have music playing
in the background or we'll, do
586
:arpeggios on the guitar and we'll
ask people that you think of your
587
:favorite place and what do you taste?
588
:So it's, it's like meditation, but we
call it guided imagery or bonnie method
589
:of guided imagery because it was created
by helen bonnie I think what was her name?
590
:But yeah, it's really cool thing in music
therapy and sometimes i'll do that too
591
:Jenny: Because literally sounds
like a guided meditation.
592
:Yeah,
593
:Kyai: but we bring live music
to it so it's really cool.
594
:Angel: That is so cool.
595
:Jenny: I wanted to ask, do
you all have any books or
596
:speakers that you'd recommend?
597
:Angel: I do have this one
TikToker that I listened to.
598
:Her name is Mel Robbins.
599
:she's a doctor, a therapist, she
does a lot of mixed variety of topics,
600
:mainly focused on college students
and their mental health but also
601
:focuses on habits that relates to a
lot of younger people, such as people
602
:pleasing and different topics on burnout
and different mental health issues.
603
:I followed her recently,
around a month ago.
604
:So she's been a good that I've been using.
605
:Jenny: Awesome.
606
:Angel: Personally, I feel like
you learn a lot more within
607
:your community and what you do.
608
:For example since I go to USC, it makes
it easier because I'm able to participate
609
:in more clubs and organizations.
610
:I'm part of this club called
Active Minds that talks about
611
:psychology and mental health.
612
:We do certain events that are
for mental health related issues.
613
:And that kind of makes me feel more
comfortable because I have a community.
614
:And that also changed my perspective
on it as well because I was able
615
:to learn more information on
different habits that I could do
616
:such as drawing because I'm
into drawing and I love art.
617
:And then reading and meditating
to build more self loving habits.
618
:Beautiful.
619
:Being with organizations that
are close to you can help you
620
:gain a larger perspective and
a more collective perspective.
621
:Jenny: Great suggestion.
622
:Thank you for that.
623
:How about you, Kyai?
624
:Kyai: Other than that
podcast, I don't know.
625
:And I'm not being biased, but I really
enjoy listening to your videos, Ms.
626
:Leckey, about people pleasing.
627
:Jenny: No,
628
:Kyai: I'm not even, I'm
not even trying to like,
629
:Jenny: Oh, really?
630
:Thank you so much.
631
:That is like, wow,
that's a huge compliment.
632
:Thank you.
633
:Kyai: I do.
634
:And I, And I think it comes from
knowing you as an educator , I don't
635
:know, it's like humanizing, it's like,
okay, , she has these issues too.
636
:She was my teacher.
637
:Like it happens to everyone.
638
:It's, grounding and I
related to a lot of stuff.
639
:It's definitely helpful.
640
:Definitely.
641
:Wow.
642
:Thanks so
643
:Jenny: much for that.
644
:Yeah.
645
:You know, There's the fallacy of
the like adults haven't figured out.
646
:I still feel like a kid.
647
:I'm like, I don't know what I'm doing.
648
:What are you talking about?
649
:Angel: I feel like that's such a
great thing about more of millenials.
650
:They're more open.
651
:Let's be relatable, let's be
more honest about how we feel.
652
:Cause sometimes you don't
know what we're doing.
653
:I'm like, even though I'm
21, do I know what I'm doing?
654
:No.
655
:Does somebody who knows what they're
doing, like, when they're, like, 30 or 40?
656
:Or even when you're probably 50?
657
:No.
658
:Nobody knows what we're doing.
659
:And that's the beauty of it all.
660
:Jenny: I think that's the exciting part.
661
:I don't want to know what I'm doing I
don't want to have it figured out.
662
:That takes away the excitement.
663
:I don't know what's around the corner.
664
:Kyai: That's actually a good way to
think about it because I feel like
665
:growing up, it's always the structure,
go to college, get this degree, go to
666
:work until you retire, that's boring.
667
:You should be excited about new
things in your life and, experiencing
668
:new things, having new jobs.
669
:working at a bunch of, you know, I
think that makes life more exciting.
670
:Why would you just want to work
until you retire and then die?
671
:It's all about experiences.
672
:I love what you said.
673
:That's boring and it's not exciting
if you don't know what's gonna
674
:happen I like that point of view.
675
:Some
676
:Jenny: people thrive in that and I get it.
677
:I have people in my life who thrive in
that routine and security and have never
678
:moved away Which is fine or never really
traveled or They work at the same job.
679
:That's fine.
680
:Some brains need that, but
my brain can't handle that.
681
:That makes me feel like a
rat in a cage, like a carrot.
682
:Y'all probably didn't get that Smashing
Pumpkins reference, but yes, it
683
:makes me feel like a rat in a cage.
684
:I feel like that ties in with
people pleasing because the culture
685
:is shifting to self exploration
even more so and going after your
686
:dreams and all these experiences.
687
:But some people are still stuck in
the, I guess you'd say the old matrix
688
:of, no, duty is to stay here and
do that and don't break the mold.
689
:And people feel like they're Abandoning
relationships or they're letting people
690
:down by maybe putting their dreams first.
691
:I went through that with
moving away multiple times.
692
:I went through different phases of that.
693
:I lost friendships over it
because people were silently
694
:resentful of me for going for it.
695
:So it does take some courage.
696
:And it is a form of anti people
pleasing and healing to actually
697
:go for what you want in life.
698
:Angel: You are so right.
699
:To branch off on that a little
bit, there is a cultural people
700
:pleasing that occurs as well.
701
:I try to appeal to almost like the
social norms what's acceptable with,
702
:your family and in large respect.
703
:For example, in Hispanic culture,
it's not really acceptable to be more
704
:feminine, but that was something that I
wanted to live my truth and I'm okay with
705
:being a little bit more feminine, more
flamboyant, more fun, more like zesty.
706
:I love that.
707
:I have to live with that.
708
:I'm comfortable with that.
709
:And I want to live my truth and express
that about myself, but I feel like with
710
:that cultural barrier sometimes it's
a lot more difficult because it's more
711
:of a group people pleasing because it's
different with people pleasing one on
712
:one but people pleasing for a whole
entire culture is a whole different ball
713
:game and it's a lot more pressure..
714
:Taking that stance and telling yourself
no like, I'm gonna go this way because
715
:that's who I am, takes a lot of strength.
716
:And that's something that, I I find
beautiful in creating your own
717
:life through non people pleasing.
718
:With people pleasing, you're straying
into other people's lives and to what they
719
:want you to do and their image of you.
720
:When you should do it for yourself.
721
:That can be from people
from organizations.
722
:Yeah.
723
:Like that, especially whenever
having to do with religion.
724
:Having to heal from religious trauma
was such a large step in my journey,
725
:because again, it was like, in my head,
I had a voice where it was like, you're
726
:gonna, go to hell if you believe in XYZ.
727
:And I'm like, I'm sorry that
I'm just , living my truth.
728
:I did have that inner
resentment for a long time.
729
:when I was back in middle
school and high school.
730
:I was so against homosexuality.
731
:I thought it was a sin.
732
:Kyai: You took the words out of my
mouth I was literally gonna talk about
733
:inner homophobia and religious trauma
because it's instilled in us You know,
734
:from a young age or, from whenever
we started feeling that religion
735
:or whatever, it's instilled in us.
736
:So it's like, how are we
going to get away from that?
737
:Angel: but at least recognizing that
voice and being able to be like,
738
:you know what that's not my voice.
739
:because sometimes it still does
hurt because that voice does still
740
:come from somewhere and it does come
from my upbringing and it comes from
741
:the people who did care about me.
742
:But also what's in it for my
best interest, because that's
743
:how they want to perceive me and
how they want to dictate my life.
744
:How am I going to put myself forward and
how I want to, take out my life instead.
745
:Great point.
746
:Was gonna say to segue a little
bit into the quote that I chose, I
747
:think I'm just gonna share my quote
and then explain it a little bit.
748
:So I have, People pleasing should
not be meant for self soothing.
749
:What I mean by this is feel like
people pleasing does become a habit
750
:of wanting to escape a situation where
you have to feel that discomfort.
751
:But like I've said earlier in the podcast,
I feel like learning to sit with that
752
:discomfort and learning to sit with
that guilt even a displeasure within
753
:yourself is an important step to building
that habit of setting those boundaries
754
:and understanding that it's okay to feel
that discomfort, but it's what you do
755
:afterward with it, that's most important.
756
:Jenny: Oh my gosh, that's amazing.
757
:That's spot on.
758
:I could see that on a
bumper sticker for sure.
759
:I love it.
760
:And it's a great way to summarize
basically your entire thesis.
761
:So I'm going to take a little
bit of credit for that as
762
:your former English teacher.
763
:That's a thesis statement.
764
:Angel: Oh my god.
765
:Full circle.
766
:Jenny: Yeah, it's full circle.
767
:Great conclusion.
768
:Kyai: That's so funny.
769
:Jenny: That's funny.
770
:How about you, Kyai?
771
:What's your bumper sticker?
772
:Kyai: Yeah.
773
:So mine a couple months back, I
made a Facebook post just explaining
774
:how I've never felt more free
when I decide what I want to do.
775
:And stand up for myself and I'm
just unapologetic about who I am.
776
:So my bumper sticker quote would
probably be true freedom is owning
777
:who you are, being unfiltered,
unapologetic, and fiercely confident.
778
:It's generic, but I think
that really resonates with me.
779
:Jenny: That's amazing.
780
:Did you write that?
781
:I had a little help, but From your brain?
782
:It's not like someone else's quote?
783
:Wow, amazing.
784
:Would you mind saying that again?
785
:Kyai: Yes.
786
:True freedom is owning who you
are, unfiltered, unapologetic,
787
:and fiercely confident.
788
:Jenny: Oh, I love that.
789
:That sums up your journey too.
790
:Exactly what you've described at
the end of your people pleasing era
791
:.
I think so too.
792
:I love that so much.
793
:Thank
794
:Angel: you.
795
:I love it.
796
:Especially like the fiercely confident.
797
:Wait, what was the last part?
798
:Wait, say it one more time
799
:Kyai: Unfiltered, unapologetic,
and fiercely confident.
800
:Not just confident, fiercely.
801
:Jenny: There's no apologies
in that confidence.
802
:I love it.
803
:That's amazing.
804
:Y'all, thanks for putting so
much thought into that too.
805
:I love how it literally
aligned with what both of you
806
:focused on in your storytelling.
807
:It's so spot on.
808
:Kyai: Would be your bumper
sticker you would think about
809
:Jenny: probably tolerate the tension.
810
:Yes, I like that.
811
:Oh, yes, I love that one.
812
:Or something along the lines of
What story are you telling yourself?
813
:Ooh.
814
:What story are you telling yourself?
815
:These are things I say
to myself all the time.
816
:It's been wonderful having
you both on the show.
817
:Thank you for giving some of your time on
your busy schedule as college students to
818
:be on here and sharing your wisdom with us
life stories and perspectives so candidly.
819
:I am eternally grateful to you.
820
:Angel: Oh, thank you.
821
:I love being on this podcast.
822
:Thank you so much for
inviting me, inviting Kyai.
823
:I'd like to talk to you about this.
824
:It's amazing.
825
:Jenny: It's so awesome to see what
your former students are doing with
826
:their lives and staying in touch.
827
:y'all gave everyone so much
advice and good strategies to
828
:think of using in their lives.
829
:Thank you.
830
:Thank
831
:Kyai: you so much, Miss Leckey.