Have you ever taken control of your own actions while dreaming? In this episode, we delve into the topic of lucid dreaming. Mike shares his experience of studying the process in order to escape nightmares, and Wendy describes a lucid dream in which she could fly.

Welcome to see you on the other Mike, where the world of

the mysterious collides with the world of entertainment.

A discussion of art, music, movies, spirituality, no

weird, and self discovery. And now,

your hosts, musicians and entertainers who have their

own weakness for the weird, Mike and Wendy from the

band, Sunspot. Today, we're

talking about dreams. Wendy,

how often a week do you think you dream?

I think I dream probably every night. I don't

always remember them though. So do do you write them

down or anything like that? Or do you do you keep Mike a dream journal?

I mean, I I remember girls in high school and stuff keeping

dream journals. Do do girls still do that?

I don't know. I mean, I'm sure they do. Yes. I have friends who do

that. I don't actually do that, because what

happens when I dream is that usually I wake up and I

remember having had a dream, but I don't actually remember what

it was about. And then as the day goes on, it'll sort of slowly

trickle back to me. Okay. So it's

kinda weird because I'll just remember a little piece, a little piece, and usually by

the end of the day, then I'll have the whole story and I'll be

like, oh, yeah. I remember that. But I don't wake up and immediately recall

it. So it's hard to journal. Yeah. I know. I

I do sometimes. I try to write my dreams down

And because I like to remember the the the weird ones.

I haven't had I I haven't had a weird one in a while. I was

looking through the different places I write them down and I had,

in April, I had a dream that

there were some Nazi like wizards who could read your mind and

then control your body and were overlords of a tree

kingdom that I knew people who lived in this tree kingdom.

Sci fi much? A little bit. I don't know why. I don't know what I

I wasn't reading anything fanciful in April. So I don't know why there was

like, oh, yeah. It's it's it's those wizards in the tree kingdom.

But then I woke up and I fell asleep I fell

asleep again. I had the same kind of dream later on. And you were in

the next one. Woah. It must have been awesome. Yeah. Of course. We

were at a music conference and then there was a guy that, wanted to control

my mind and make me crash my car. And we had to

hide out from him in an old hotel. But it was it's not like it's

not like an old gross hotel. Just like a hotel that was built in the

eighties and we were hidden in the conference room and we had to pretend to

have band practice there because we had to we had to pretend to go about

our normal lives so that this person could wouldn't try to

control my mind. Wow. And also the only way we could get into the

hotel was through an underground river. That is

awesome. So yeah. Was it Mike Willy Wonka in the

chocolate factory? The little river that goes through the tunnel and everything?

Yeah. I mean, there definitely was a tunnel. And I mean, I remember I remember

the tunnel opening, and then we walked into it looked like a, you

know, a a hotel conference room from the 19 eighties

hotel. Interesting. Well, you know, oftentimes, I

can piece together, like, the origin of why I'm

dreaming something because of things that recently happened. Yeah.

So since since sunspot stays at a lot of crappy old

hotels, maybe that, seeped into

your subconscious. Yeah. That might have influenced me a little bit. No. That was kind

of a so that was kind of a weird one. Then one time in June,

or this last June, I woke up and I had dreamed

that I was hired to work on a web series.

Like you know, like a TV show, like just just shown on the web, like

Doctor. Horrible or some shit on Hulu. And

I was, I was hired to be an Al Pacino

impersonator, but I have no idea why I was hired to be an Al

Pacino impersonator because I don't even do a very good

Al Pacino. I don't even do an Al Pacino impression. So Mike, why

would I wanna be like, all I would do even if I wanted to be

an Al Pacino impersonator would be Mike the try to

talk like he did from the scent of a woman. You know? But,

you know because I sound like fuck hole Leghorn. And I I don't even I

wouldn't be able to do that because he's always so loud and everything. And I

I just had don't even have an Al Pacino impression. And Well, maybe maybe

your subconscious is is trying to direct you in a to another career

path. To learn an Al Pacino impression. That would

that is per that that is absolutely that might happen, an al Pacino

impression. You know, it could. But, well, today we're

talking about lucid dreams. And, Mike, I know this is a topic that

you've spent a lot of time researching and actually,

working on. So maybe you could tell us a little about your your

background with that. Sure. Well, no. I really

I I love the idea of lucid dreams. So the people who don't know what

lucid dreams are, is that's if you just say, man,

don't you wish you could control your dreams? That's that's what a

lucid dream is. That that's what it means. And

I, first start being interested oh, go ahead. Sorry.

But, it's not just controlling. It's it's not controlling, like, I wanna have a dream

about this. It's, like, being yourself in your dream and being able to

do dream Mike things. Right? Like flying or

or, you know, non. Yeah. It it wouldn't just

be controlling the outcome Mike you're writing the story. It would be, you

know, you Participating in the dream. Yes. Yes.

And the reason I really got in interested in it is because I used to

have, oh, horrible nightmares when I was a little

one. So yeah. No. I don't always have to say I mean, it was really

Didn't you know you're not supposed to eat ice cream before bed? It gives you

nightmares. That's that's what I was told. I

that's and that's why I snuck it in, and my parents would feed me ice

cream before bed because they wanted to torture me. No.

The, I just I saw Night of the Living

Dead. It scared me to death. And then I we wasn't able to

stop thinking about Night of the Living Dead for, like, 6 years.

I saw it and I was Mike, 6. And, I mean, if you ever see

the original one, it's scary, but it's cheesy. It's really it's a corny movie.

The special effects are horrible. It's black and white.

My dad and my sister were watching it and they were making fun of

it, You know, because they were like, look at this, you know, that guy, oh,

that's a real scary zombie. Look, I think he's eating a chicken leg. It

was stuff like that. And so I mean, because it really

was cheesy. And I was just watching

it and I just, I was like, oh my, the, all the ideas of

it. All the ideas of the idea that you're all

eventually gonna die. The idea that the end of the world come and there's nothing

you can do about it. The idea that you can't get along because I mean

there's just something in the human condition where you can't get along. All those different

things really,

they all had a profound effect on me. I think the fact is, is that

it's not just that it's not just an unhappy Wendy, because I've watched plenty of

things with an unhappy ending. It was the fact that it's

not it's unhappy and that the world is going to end. Yeah. And

that's it. I think a lot of those movies when

you're younger too, in spite of the cheesy

effects and whatnot, because as a child, you

have a more vivid imagination. And so it's Mike, I think

a lot of the movies that horror movies that I saw as a kid were

extremely frightening to Mike. But, you know, nowadays, things are much

more graphic and realistic, but not as scary. So

Yeah. I I think you're exactly right, and it was the atmosphere

of unavoidable dread that

you are now just waiting to die. You know, that really

I mean, it just terrified me because it it just was things got worse and

worse and worse until then, you know. Now you're just waiting to die

by the end of the movie. And, that freaked me out pretty bad.

So I had zombie nightmares, oh, man, Mike,

3 or 4 times a week for, like, years.

So I would, you know, I was interested in lucid

dreaming from a very young age. That's really because I would wake up in the

middle of it and I wouldn't want to fall back asleep. Because it's like, I

know what's gonna happen when I fall back asleep. All my friends are all my

friends are gonna be eating. I'm gonna watch my family die and then turn around

and then try to eat Mike, and then the world's gonna end. So do you

really wanna go like if you like now I lay me down to sleep, pray

the Lord my soul to keep, right? Every time I went to sleep, I would

go see the world end. So I never wanted to go. So I

wanted to do something about it. Well, that's cool. I mean, that's that's

awesome that you found an option for for managing that, you know,

because a lot of times people feel they don't have control over their dreams and

you just once your eyes are shut, you're at the mercy of your your

mind. Right. Your your subconscious and

Right. So what kinds of things

Wendy you were trying to learn how to do this? I mean, you read books,

you watch videos, or you listen to audiobooks?

Or I looked it up in a magazine called

Omni that was really popular Mhmm. In

well, I don't know if it was popular because it's but like in the 19

eighties. So Omni would print science fiction and it would also print

like, stories about fringe technology. And that's why Omni was real it was really

neat, magazine.

And, so I I I looked up some stuff

in the in Omni and they had things about

trying to, I I didn't even buy the magazine. I would

just I saw that something's about lucid dreaming or control your dreams

or something and it was just on the newsstand. And so I just read the

whole article when I was like 8. I just like, you know, I'm like my

parents like it's time to go and I'm like Mike give me 2 minutes and

I'm gonna finish this. And so I read it and would have different tips so

that you would know when you're dreaming. Okay. Such

as? And I think that well, okay. Well, number 1 is is the

reality check and this is the one that everybody,

kinda gets to when they talk about lucid dreaming. Is that

look at a piece of paper and try to read something, or look at something

on a chalkboard or wherever you are. So if you're in a dream, look at

a sign. Do you see a stop sign? Okay, now turn away.

Now look back. Does it say the same thing?

In a dream it might not. Okay. In real life, of course,

it's going to. But the idea is you get used to having a reality check-in

real life every hour or every couple hours. Wow. So every couple

hours, what you're gonna do is you're like, hey, look at that sign. Am I

dreaming? And you you know you're not dreaming, but you tell yourself

you kind of get that ingrained. So then you have a kind of reality check-in

your own, in your own

daily life. And you do that, so you or you look at a watch. You

know, you look at a watch, what time is it? If you look at it,

it's the same time then obviously you're not dreaming. But if you

look at it, it's a different time than you are. There's digital watches or any

any any digital display anywhere, any sign, anything that changes,

you ask yourself are you dreaming and that's that kind of reality check is kind

of what kicks it off. So so then you

understand whether or not you are awake or you are asleep.

So you you started doing that every day and doing the,

like, the hourly check-in. And when was the first time that

you had a dream that you actually, like, realized you were dreaming

and not Well, I mean,

that I actually took, like, took control. I was, like, like, 12. No.

12. I'd say since I was 6th grade, I took control of a dream, and

I was being chased by zombies always. They love Mike, oh god

they love me. And, and then they Mike

I was in some forest or whatever and then

I found, like, an anti zombie medallion. I realized I was dreaming. I'm like,

hey. I can use this medallion to

make them go away. And that's That's awesome. And

where do I go to find this forest and this medallion? You go inside

your mind. Inside your mind is the place you go.

Oh, okay. And so, well, that's what Queensryche

sings about in their song Silent Lucidity. So, you know,

dreams are very something very popular in I mean

everybody sings about dreams. Oh my gosh, yes. Right? Mariah Carey sings about

dreams, but it takes a certain kind of band to sing about

lucid dreams, to sing about controlling them and doing

something with it and it's usually you know, like a prog rock band.

In high school. I

opened up for a prog rock band called Lucid Dreams, actually. And I'm like,

oh, that's a, you know, pretty cool name.

And nobody else knew who it was but those guys did. So at least I

thought that was cool. But it's very proggy type of name to be thinking about.

Yeah, absolutely. For sure. Control your dreams in 78.

So but like Queensryche and Sound Lucidity,

they were the I think they were the first band that actually had a

a top 40 hit about controlling

your dreams. I mean, lucidity is in the name. Let me read you

some of the lyrics here. Okay.

There's a place I like to hide, a doorway that I run to in the

night. Relax child, you were there but only didn't realize it and

you were scared. It's a place where you'll learn to face your fears,

retrace the years, and ride the whims of your mind.

Commanding in another world, suddenly, you hear and see

this magic new dimension. Alright. I

mean, Queen's right. Yeah. Okay. So You know,

the crazy thing too is, like, everybody recognizes that song the second it

comes on. But you really don't realize that

kind of poetry that's in there. No. Right. Ride the

whims of your mind. You know, I just hey,

commanding in another world. Obviously these guys

were thinking about lucid dreams in 1990 when they worked on this song.

So that's one of the kind of

mainstream mentions of Mike controlling your dreams and stuff like

that. But, one of our favorite bands, Wendy,

also did that. That's one of everybody's favorites, and that's

Creed, which

which, really made made radio better

for years. Anyway, so I did not know

this until I was looking up and doing research on that. And this is a

song I've heard a 1000000 times because I owned it, you know, I owned a

radio in 1999, But the song, you know,

can you take me higher?

Is is about Scott Stapp and his lucid dreams.

No. I didn't I did not know that. Yeah. So Scott Scott Stapp's lucid

dreams. He's got a he's got a hunger and a

longing to escape the life he lives when he's awake.

Yeah. The the place where blind men see and the place

with golden streets is Scott's lucid dreams.

That is really actually kinda cool. Yeah. You've given

you've given that song a little redeeming factor. Yeah. There is

no, like, there's no verse about what he dreams about which is making

that sex tape with Kid Rock. That's where he goes back. That's his safe

that's his safe place where he's strong enough.

And that's the place where blind men see that night. Oh my gosh. But although

I if I could make my earth and my

dreams the same, the only difference is he'd let love replace all of

our hate. Let's go there and let's make our escape. So,

yeah. Higher is all about Scott Stapp controlling his dreams

and dreaming happy thoughts about the world.

Interesting. Alright. Well, there you go. That's not

right. That makes me like that song more. Me too, actually.

Yeah. Wait. Wait. And by more, I mean, a touch.

At all? A snooch. Yes. At all. Yes.

But no, so that I mean, so that's, that was, Mike, as

ubiquitous as subtle lucidity was for, you know, a few

years back in the day.

And okay, so Franz Ferdinand has a song called Lucid

Dreams, but that doesn't really, they kind of just they don't really delve into the

topic of it or anything like Mike. But several movies do.

Okay. When you talk about I mean the most the most famous recent one is

Inception. Did you see Inception? I did. Yes.

The top. The little spinning top. Yeah. And that was I

mean, that was a great that was a great kind of movie. But that also

combined lucid dreams with, like, everybody hanging out in their dreams.

Mike, that where you could go into someone else's dream. That is pretty

cool. And, so that's kinda

Mike the the first movie I remember seeing about that kind of thing of

controlling your dreams is a movie called Dreamscape.

Okay. I don't think I've seen that one. It's it's with that Dennis Quaid when

he was a hunk. So the whole idea behind Dreamscape

is that if you if you die in your dream, you die in real life.

So that's That's horrible. Yeah. Is that Mike the,

how they kids in school used to always say, like, if you ever have a

dream where you're falling down a long, like,

pit or something. If you ever hit the bottom, then you're dead.

Yeah. Or if you I mean, I used to think that too, probably because I

saw it in Dreamscape because Oh, was that for that movie? Yeah.

So it well, but in in dreams, I mean, I'd always watch

other people die, but I never actually died. I would usually just be eaten or

lose an arm or something like that when I'd have these nightmares. I would be

about to Mike, and then I would never actually, like, be dead,

and I would wake up as I was getting munched on.

And in, in so in the movie though, if you if you

die in any kind of way, then you have a heart attack and you seize

up and you die in real Mike. And that's kinda thing. And so that's what

people would tell Mike, you know, when you're little kids, they're like, you know what's

gonna happen? If you fall off a building in a dream, if you hit the

ground right. They say, if you hit the ground, you have a heart attack and

you die. And you're Mike, that's a first of all, you're a jerk

for trying to scare me like that. I mean, second of all, I

did hit the I mean, a couple years later, I did hit the ground in

a few dreams and I did not die. Yay. Yes. So that is great. So

I fell off one time I fell off a cloud, I remember. One

time I dumped out of a hot air balloon, and one time the side of

a castle. And all the times I hit the ground and I did

feel pain, and, like, my neck

was broken or something like that.

But I did not die. So fantastic. Yay.

So Dreamscape, they they go into each other's dreams. Okay. And so the

idea is that the the president's having nightmares of a nuclear holocaust

all the time. So the president's having all these kind of nightmares and,

somebody's tried to assassinate him. So assassinate him by

going into his dream while he's having these nightmares and killing the

president in his dream. So,

the president's played by one of the guys from Escape from Witch Mountain, if you

remember that movie. Not really. No. Psychic

kids from the seventies. It's pretty sweet. It's pretty sweet.

We might be talking about Escape from Witch Mountain on a different show.

So Dreamscape was a good one that talked about people's, you know, lucid

dreams, inception obviously. But the one that really

got into it about lucidity

was Nightmare on Elm Street Park. Absolutely.

Yes. So, I mean, Freddy Krueger came

about he came about in a dream from,

Wes Craven, the director and the writer. And

so Freddy did that. And by the time they hit the third

movie, it's about a group of kids who are seeing a therapist, and

they're all being attacked by Freddy. And the therapist is trying to get them to

help them control their dreams so that they can fight back.

Cool. And so they're the dream warriors and so they get these powers in their

dreams, like he does whatever I mean obviously Frey's arms get long, his tongue is

20 feet long, he gets a huge head, he, you know, he turns into your

bed and swallows you whole. Like, all those kind of things that Freddy Krueger does

because he's a real jerk. Yeah.

And so the whole idea was if he can do those things inside your dreams,

then you can do things that defend yourself. You know?

So one, you know, become a superhero or a ninja

or all these kind of things. And so that's kind of thing

Nightmare on Elm Street 3 is the lucid dreams kinda

that's the one that really gets into it. That's pretty cool. Yeah.

And that's a that's a classic. I I

don't really I mean, I don't know if it's a classic. When you go back

and watch some of these movies now, like, I've seen dreamscape in the past 5

years, and it's alright for what it is in the early eighties. I've seen

Nightmare on Elm Street 3, and it's not quite as scary as it was. You

know, Freddy Krueger's jokes kinda lose it after you know, it's 30

years on. You're like, this is super corny.

Right. But I'm in classic insofar as it's

something that, you know, it's one of those movies that sticks with you

after you see it as a child. Absolutely. No.

Absolutely. And and and and children shouldn't be watching that

movie. Right. Totally. That's like, wait till the parents go out for

dinner and go to the video store and you know? Right.

It's a guy with claws for fingers that slashes people up. A child

molester that was burnt to death and comes back in your dreams. Oh, gosh. Okay.

So they create a character, a child molester that comes back from the

dead to haunt your dreams. That's terrifying. And it shows, like, oh, what does

he he kills children? Yeah. And then he comes in your dreams even though he's

dead. So you can't stop him. Oh my god. So if you're a little

kid, that's Mike tell that's okay. All I'm saying

is I think a lot of other people were interested in in lucid dreaming

because of Nightmare on Elm Street. Like, I was interested because of Night of Living

Dead. I see. Yeah. Totally. That makes

sense. Maybe it helps some people. Yes. Maybe

maybe Nightmare on L Street helps people. Freddy Krueger really got me

through through some things. Hey. You know, I'm just saying it's possible.

No. You're right. If if people I mean, especially with the the psychiatrist

and stuff like Yes. No. And and they right. It

makes therapy okay too. The technique. Right. You don't have to be embarrassed by

therapy. Yeah. Okay. So I

mean, lucid dreams are I mean, they're not really a

paranormal thing, but I mean, the the use of

your mind and stuff like that and and the dream world is I

mean, some people do find, paranormal things in the dream

world. And we'll talk Oh, yeah. Definitely. And and

we'll talk about sometime. I mean, now we're talking about controlling your dreams, but some

people have dreams where they see things in the future or see things where

they thought they were in the past or they see aliens,

abducting them. Yes. Wendy do you ever have a dream by

abducted by an alien? I've had a lot of scary dreams. But, I mean,

I'm just saying, you know, a lot of the alien abduction, like, theories

and whatnot, sometimes they'll say, oh, the person was just dreaming.

So were they or were they? Well, I'll tell you

what. So, I woke up one time in a

hypnagogic trance Mhmm. After I read

the book communion. So I shouldn't be I shouldn't be exposed

to these things. Like, it's the fact that I'm exposed to these things

that Yeah. It's giving you nightmares, man. Right. It's totally giving me nightmares.

And I sought it out. I know it's not my, you know, it's my fault.

You know, it's not like, hey, I think that Whitley Strieber is horrible. Like, no,

I saw an alien picture and I'm Mike, cool. And so I read the

book and I was terrified. And so a few months later, I

woke up and I saw little white faces around me, and I

was frozen. Okay, but you know I was still half dreaming

so then you know the white faces faded out after about 10 seconds, but the

thing is it was that melding of I still had something going on

in my visual what I Yeah. That's Mike in my visual cortex.

I don't know. I think that would be a good topic maybe for another

whole show because the the whole, like, waking up and being

frozen and and seeing things and having them go in and out

of your consciousness, I guess. Oh, yeah. Well, speaking of

speaking of things going in and out, that's incubi and succubi right there.

Like, that's that is something we can definitely

definitely talk about. So, right, the dream world is exciting and it's

fun. And, okay. A couple more things

that I definitely wanna get to for the people that wanna do some lucid dreaming

things. Oh. We are Wendy talked about the

reality check. You gotta read, read a book, you know, read a sentence,

read a sign, to, oh, you know,

here's something I'm looking at a site on lucid dreaming and I'm just checking out

to see if they have any new tips. Hold your nose and mouth

shut and breathe. So Mike this, you

know, grab breathe. But I can't if they're both shot. But you

can in a dream. Oh.

So in real life in real life, if you do that too much, you'll die.

But You could you could breathe through your ears in your dream. That's what you're

saying. You could breathe through what ifs. I have gills. You you have

gills. Mirrors, does your reflection look normal in

a mirror? If you look in a mirror, like, you know, and all of a

sudden, like, sometimes I'll look in a mirror and my nose is like 9 inches

long. And it's like, oh, no, Mike, my nose totally

grew. You know, because what do they say that the nose never stop growing or

whatever as you get older? That's right. Yeah. I'll be Mike, oh, no. I guess

that's really true. It never stops growing. And so dreams have that weird

kinda logic where all of a sudden you're like, obviously cows can

talk. Mike, you've never talked to a cow before. And,

you know, you just act like it's all normal as everything. Like, of course, I

talked to him and what he said was Mike grass. His 3rd stomach

hasn't had enough, and run. During a dream, if

you run, you will feel like you are running in slow motion.

Now that happens to me constantly. Whenever I try to run-in a dream, it feels

like or try to shoot a gun or something like that. Like, and I've shot

a gun and it's and I know how it feels and stuff, but nothing will

happen. Mike, I tried shooting nothing will happen Mike, well, that's it for Mike.

And then I try to run and I can't run. I'm like, oh, I'm

done. So you Weird. You felt that? I mean No.

It's just weird. I mean, I haven't,

I haven't I haven't, like, tried that hard to to lucid dream, I guess.

Okay. But I did have it happen once, like, crazily

where I was I could fly. Nice. Like,

just by thinking really hard, like, okay. I I just wanna fly. And I'd,

like, put a certain thought in my mind, and all of a sudden, I would

just start lifting up. And it was so cool. And I was,

like, controlling myself, going different places, and, it

you know, it's one of those dreams that really felt real. So when I woke

up, I was quite disappointed that I couldn't Yeah. I'd be too.

Fly. I I love it when you get flying dreams. That's the

Mhmm. That's the best. So a lot of times when you realize you're dreaming,

then this is one thing. So if you do the reality checks and and stuff,

and you realize that you're gonna dream, that you're, you know, in a dream,

sometimes your body wakes you up. One of the tips is, and

I read this one a long time ago, start spinning around.

So, start spinning your body around and it'll help you stay

inside the dream. It'll help you not wake up. Wait. Wait. Spin, like,

get out of bed and, like, spin around Mike it Inside your

dream. Like, don't get up and spin and, like, wake up your partner like

an a hole and be like, hey, spin around. Mike, no.

So just spin around and inside the dream

and, like, that change of focus, that change of concentration will help you

stay inside the dream. Oh, okay. Because a lot of times you realize you're

dreaming and like, oh, look at this shit I'm gonna do now. Like, I'm dreaming.

Let's go crazy. And all of a sudden you're like, no, wait, hold on.

Your body's like, hey, you're it's time to wake up now. So you

start spinning around. Another thing that I found

is that the most like, I get a lot of REM

sleep, when I'm losing

my religion. I was waiting for it. Hey. I was waiting for

it. Hey. But a bunch. Right.

So, no. But I get a lot of REM sleep in the in the last

couple hours before I wake up. So if you if

you try to wake up like an hour and a half before you normally do,

and then fall back asleep, it'll be easier to realize you're

dreaming. It'll be easier to have really vivid dreams.

And so, just in that last couple hours, like, if you want a lucid

dream, wake yourself up a little early, and then go back to sleep.

And then kind of prepare for you're gonna get into a dream a lot faster

than you do right when you go into the normal, like, you go to sleep

and and then you're Mike, hey. I hope I have a lucid dream and then

takes you, you know. Right. It's the whole night. Yes.

So so that's that, for

oh, and I've been told that if you're on the patch, if you're on the

Nicoderm or whatever, that you have a lot of people who

are on take the patch, they nicotine patches, they

give crazy dreams. That I have also

heard, but I I haven't heard anything about lucid dreaming. I've just heard about,

like, wild, weird. You know? Yeah. But a lot a

lot of times wild and weird dreams can lead you to realizing you're

dreaming. And then Yeah. And then once you get that

once you understand you're realizing you're dreaming, then you can try to take

some kind of control over it. I suppose I suppose if you've if you've been

training for that. Yeah. Well, my sister also was

wanted to be a lucid dreamer. And so this isn't more recently. This

is when we were little kids. But, so there's a guy named

Steven Laberge, and he's the kinda guy that you read about for lucid

dreaming. He's the guy he's got a lucid dreaming institute in Hawaii, Mike,

he teaches Mike,

why you don't have to pretend you're somewhere? Like, try, Like, why you don't have

to pretend you're somewhere. Like, try try the

Midwest in February. Like, I'm lucid dreaming about Hawaii.

So, but he wrote a book exploring the world of lucid dreaming that really gets

into it. And he also had a device that he sold

called the NovaDreamer or the Dreamlight. And what that would do, it would

you put it on your head when you go to sleep, right, because you put

something on your head. And then it detects when you have REM sleep. Like, it

detects when you Oh, cool. Rapid eye movements, and then it flashes a light at

you. Like, nothing like a bright light. Like, hey. Like, the police. What's going on

in there? It's like But a little bit of stimulus. It's like a red little

bit of thing, and and so you kinda have that if you notice in your

dream that you're seeing Mike a red light, that's your

that's your reality check. And

so, that I mean, they don't sell that anymore, but what they do have now

is apps. Ah. So you can do it with something

everyone can use. You can do it with apps. Now the app

I've used is is a free one, And I haven't done too

much with this, but, there's a guy named Richard Wiseman who's a really

fun, interesting psychology,

research science out of the UK. And so he's behind this one called

Dream On. And this one's an iOS only one, but

it has, it does the whole thing with triggers and it

has soundscapes you can pick to to see if these things

that you listen to in your dreams, I mean, affect

your dreams. So if if you if you're listening to New York City, you know,

they have a New York City soundscape. Do you dream about being in the city?

You know? That's cool. If you have that. And so then they it's

got a dream diary in it, and then they do experiments on it.

Sweet. So it's a lot a lot of it is, and and there's

little triggers in in the in the soundscapes that'll try to let you

know that you're dreaming, let you know that you're sleeping. That is

really cool. And it it monitors your sleep by a few,

and there's other apps that do this for your health and stuff. But it monitors

your sleep by telling you, like, what times of night that you're rolling around, what

times of night that you're really into deep sleep and things like that.

So So you don't have to put the phone on your eyes when you go

to sleep? No. You don't. It's not like all it's not like all detects?

No. It does, like, it does rapid I've if you if I could get my

iPhone to detect rapid eye movement, that would you know, there's a lot of cool

stuff you can do with it. So, but for,

Android, there's one called Awoken.

Awoken? Awoken is a lucid dreaming app. And it's the same thing. It's got the

reality check reminders, but it it'll give you reality check reminders during the day.

So it'll be Mike, you know, hey. Like, you get a push notification.

Hey. I'm, I'm dreaming. You know, check on your

dreaming. And so, and then it's got the dream journal

and the triggers and stuff like Mike, you know, the same kind of thing. So

awoken is the thing to check out if you're into Android. So, you

know, and there's a couple Mike iOS apps, but I haven't tried them, but Awoken

for Android and Dream On for iOS and then you

can you can have a lucid dreaming adventure tonight. Cool. And we'll

we'll put links in the show notes, and if anybody tries either of those

and has anything to report, we'd be real curious. And I and I

know we'll we'll come back to lucid dreams because maybe because if you guys have

any lucid dreams, then send us let us know about it, and we'll talk about

your lucid dream, and we'll talk about it. So we'll revisit this topic because we

haven't even gotten to dream yoga and the Indian,

mystical connections to lucid dreams because we could go on for a

long time about it. So, anyway

alright. Well, thanks for listening. And why don't we get to a little song? That

sounds like a great idea. Alright. Here we go. Alright. Coming right

up. Show notes for today's podcast are

available online at othersidepodcast.com/2.

Dreams can be a very scary place. And for today's sunspot

song, we wanna take you to that land between

sleeping and waking up. Here's our track,

hypnogogic.

I wake up in the night, still awake but

paralyzed, and you are there hovering over

me. I can't

Thank you for listening to today's episode. You can find us

online at othersidepodcast.com. Until next

Mike. See you on the other side.