Join Upendra Varma as he sits down with Sindre Halaand, CEO, and co-founder of Salescreen, to delve into the journey of Salescreen, a sales gamification platform, and the secrets behind its remarkable growth.

SalesScreen's Mission and Customer Base:

• SalesScreen aims to motivate sales teams to achieve their goals with enthusiasm and efficiency.
• Primarily serves companies with large sales teams engaged in transactional sales, such as phone sales, real estate, and insurance, with established sales processes.

Key Metrics and Growth Trajectory:

• Achieved $8 million in annual recurring revenue (ARR) with over 300 active paying customers and 20,000 monthly active sales reps.
• Experienced a 15% growth in a challenging year for the software industry, focusing on profitability while aiming for a 20%+ growth rate moving forward.

Sales Motion and Go-to-Market Strategy:

• Transitioned from a primarily outbound sales approach to a blend of inbound and outbound, with a growing emphasis on product-led growth.
• Working towards a product-led sales motion to optimize resources and cater to both SMBs and enterprise clients effectively.

Average Deal Size and Customer Profiles:

• Average deal size is above $25,000, with notable enterprise clients like Adobe.
• Targeting enterprises with a focus on scalability and compliance, including ISO 27001 certification.

Company Evolution and Funding Strategy:

• Founded in 2011, Salescreen initially bootstrapped before raising approximately $7 million in funding.
• Strategically invested in international expansion, particularly in the US market, and compliance measures to meet enterprise standards.

Retention, Expansion, and Future Vision:

• Maintains strong retention rates with 110-120% Net Revenue Retention (NRR) and 80-85% gross revenue retention.
• Envisions leveraging AI to enhance frontline manager support, empowering them to optimize performance and coaching.
• Open to potential partnerships or acquisitions but remains focused on sustainable growth and market opportunities.

Hello, everyone.

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Welcome to the B2B SaaS podcast.

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I'm your host Upendra Verma and today

we have Sindre Halaan here with us.

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Sindre here is the CEO and co founder

of a company called Salescreen.

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Hey Sindre, welcome to the show.

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Sindre Haaland: Hey, nice to be here.

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Upendra Varma: All right, so

let's just try to understand

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what Salescreen does, right?

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And why customers are

willing to pay you money.

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Sindre Haaland: Sure.

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Um, so high level sales screen is

the sales gamification platform.

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So we're, uh, basically put, uh,

made to motivate salespeople,

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reach their goal and really do that

repetitive, sometimes boring, um,

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job that they have to do every day.

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That is so important to get the

goal, but to do it with a smile.

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Upendra Varma: Yeah, that

makes a lot of sense.

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And just give us a sense

about your customers, right?

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So who are you primarily serving to?

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So what's your typical customer look like?

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Sindre Haaland: Typical

customer has a large sales team.

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Uh, they do primarily work transactional,

meaning that it could be like phone

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sales or real estate brokers, or, you

know, someone's selling insurance,

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something that isn't too complex.

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Uh, and they have a very tight and

well established sales process.

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Uh, meaning that.

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For instance, um, they

could, uh, be very basic.

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They have requirements that they should

hit like a hundred dials per day.

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And that should give this many

conversations, this many offers sent

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and this many, you know, deals won.

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Uh, and at that point in time,

you will, uh, really start

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to feel, uh, some big pains.

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Uh, number one, like from a middle

management point of view, you know,

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Really making them, uh, get that activity

in every day consistently is tough.

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Number two, it's like,

it's gonna wear people out.

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You know, you've got a

constant stream of rejections.

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It's not always that fun.

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So, um, you will have high turnover

and that costs money to recruit

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new people and get them around.

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So those are some of the big pain

points, but also over time, you

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will see that there's a big chunk

of people, um, in the middle of the

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tree, or like, you know, in some.

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Bottom performers that's, you know,

they're, they're making the effort

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and they're doing okay, but, uh, not

really, uh, fulfilling their potential.

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Uh, and that's also a very big pain

point that we're helping solve is to get

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the most out of the middle and bottom

performers of a sales team by making

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their sales work more fun and exciting.

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Upendra Varma: That makes

a lot of sense, right?

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So just give us a sense of, you

know, how many customers using

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your platform today, right?

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So just want to get a

sense of that, right?

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So how many active paying

customers you've got today?

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Sindre Haaland: Roughly 300, uh, different

logos, uh, using the platform today.

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Um, and that

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Upendra Varma: can I ask

like how, how big of a,

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Sindre Haaland: 000.

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Upendra Varma: okay.

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So is that 20, 000 is your typical ACV?

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Is that what you're saying?

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Sindre Haaland: Ironically, China a

bit higher, but I was about to say,

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uh, but over 20, 000 active, uh,

monthly sales reps in the platform.

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Um, so, uh, there's, uh, quite a lot

of people enjoying sales screen today.

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Um, we're roughly 8, 000, 000

dollars in annual recurring revenue.

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So, um.

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Upendra Varma: Yeah, I think

that sort of helps, right?

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So just, uh, and just sort

of give us a sense of your

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growth trajectory today, right?

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So where were you, let's say,

12 months before today, right?

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So approximately,

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Sindre Haaland: Yeah, uh, we've last

year was a special year, um, for context,

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you know, the last year was 2023.

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That was a tough year for the

software industry in general.

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Uh, and we had a lot of BDR teams

and, uh, software sales teams on our

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platform that, uh, contracted or, or.

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Outright churned because they lost their

funding, um, or did major restructure.

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So we only grew about

15 percent last year.

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Um, but it was, um, a year of big

transformation for us as well,

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because we also achieve profitability.

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So we're 1 of those types of companies.

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Right now that, um, uh, keep

on being profitable while

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growing at a healthy rate.

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So say, you know, 20, 20 or so, a

bit more than that percentage, uh,

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is probably the goal for us, uh,

or is the goal for us this year.

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So,

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Upendra Varma: that makes

a lot of sense, right?

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So just want to get a sense of,

you know, How your sales motion

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typically looks like, right?

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So these are like mid market

enterprising deeds, right?

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So, so what happens, right?

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So how do you close a deal and just help

us understand the whole funnel, right?

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So how do you discover the customer

and how do you end up closing them?

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Just give us a sense of how

that's working for you today.

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Sindre Haaland: sure.

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Um, so historically we've been

a sales led growth company.

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Uh, which means that, uh, you have

people working outbound, uh, very

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structured where they target our, uh,

ideal customer profile, uh, and then,

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um, build sequences and, and reach out.

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Um, we have, uh, over

the past couple of years.

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The scene, a shift over to inbound.

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Uh, so I would say from having a

50, 50 split, uh, between outbound

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and inbound, it's been more

like 90, 10 in favor of inbound.

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Uh, and that's not gradually shifting

back again towards more of that

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50, 50 split that we're used to.

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So clearly there are things

happening on a macro scale here.

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That's a bit out of our control, but,

um, that's been the main source of, um,

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like focused on, on the go to market

side, but we have built up in parallel.

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Well, uh, a product led growth motion.

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So, uh, we are transitioning over to

a product led sales motion where the

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smaller teams, uh, for, you know, good

brand exposure and also, uh, to get a

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more cost effective solution, uh, may

self, uh, on board and try it out and

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get value from, uh, from sales screen.

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Uh, while, uh, you know, our sales team

can, uh, uh, focus more of their time

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and effort on the enterprise segment,

which, uh, makes for a more, let's

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say, cost optimized, uh, go to market

motion for the business in general.

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So we're excited to see that we've, um,

gotten our first customer, uh, on this

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route and, uh, we're looking forward

to do general availability, hopefully

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sometimes in a Q2, uh, of 2024, uh,

so that everyone can, uh, sign up

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for themselves without talking to us.

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Upendra Varma: Yeah.

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And then just, just thinking here, right?

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So does a platform like sales gamification

makes sense for somebody who's

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just, you know, who's an SMB, right?

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Does it even make sense for them, right?

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Because we're looking at.

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Gamification, it's like,

you've got to have a whole

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bunch of sales tips out there.

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I don't get that.

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It might start making sense.

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Right.

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So how are you looking at that with

this whole new product, you know,

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growth approach that you're looking at.

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Sindre Haaland: It would be surprised

how many people are, uh, struggling, uh,

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even at, uh, lower head counts, uh, with

getting the team amped up and motivated.

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So, uh, we, we do have a steady

stream of, uh, demand, uh, which we

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regard as, uh, too small because,

uh, obviously the, the value.

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You have the sales gamification

platform increases with the team size.

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Um, so the more people you have, the

harder it is to really recognize the

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individual and motivate them on individual

matter and really get the most out of,

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uh, the whole spectrum of your team.

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So I would say, um, the way that we see

it is that we're spending probably too

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much time on SMBs, uh, that we should,

uh, they, they should be able to, to

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get going much easier, swifter, and.

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On their own, uh, and also at the

same time, the enterprise companies,

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um, don't necessarily buy, uh,

uh, straight off the bat anymore.

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They want to try it out.

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Themselves.

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It's like just part of the

more modern buying journey.

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So being able to be, uh, let's say a

frontline manager without a lot of budget

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in an enterprise and actually get go in

for free and then for a small amount, uh,

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keep at it until there's so many people

using it in the enterprise that it makes

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sense to kind of like look at single

sign on an enterprise, great features,

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and like the full depth of the platform.

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I think that really makes sense.

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So I believe this is just like a

refinement or next evolution of

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the go to market model in SaaS.

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Upendra Varma: Is it similar?

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Like, can you just get a sense

of like your typical ACV?

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Like, and like, what's the

biggest deal you've closed so far?

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Right.

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So just want to get a sense of

that split here again, right.

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Sindre Haaland: So I would

say an average, uh, it's, uh,

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uh, just above 25 K typically.

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Um, and

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Upendra Varma: are these customers,

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Sindre Haaland: uh,

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Upendra Varma: it is go ahead.

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Sindre Haaland: yeah, it's over a million.

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So,

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Upendra Varma: Okay.

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So just one, I'm specifically

asking you this question, right?

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Because I was just browsing

through your website.

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Are you like, you know, when you

have to close these deals, right?

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You, you have to make your product,

you know, enterprise compliant.

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Right.

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So in terms of security

and all of it, right.

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So, uh, are you soft to compliant?

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I do, do you do all of that?

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Or like, where is your primary customer

base that you're trying to serve today?

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Sindre Haaland: yeah, I mean,

we, we started early on.

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Uh, so we are even ISO 27, so one

certified, um, And then obviously that's

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an investment takes some time, but you

got to have these types of capabilities

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on on the single sign on side on on the

security, privacy, compliancy side to be

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able to cater to the biggest enterprises.

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And, um, you know, you mentioned

to me prior to, we started here

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that you're based out of India.

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Uh, Our latest customer that came on

board was Adobe, uh, with more than,

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I think, 500 people out of India.

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Um, and clearly those types of companies

wouldn't, um, just pick any vendor,

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uh, because they have quite strict, uh,

guidelines on who they can partner with.

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So.

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That's

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Upendra Varma: that, yeah,

that makes a lot of sense.

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So just help us understand

the backstory here, right?

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So when did you start the company

and you know, how many people

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you've got today on your team

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Sindre Haaland: Sure.

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Um, so sales screen is, uh, the

product that, uh, came up, that

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came on market first of March, 2014.

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Um, I started the company back in

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you know, a computer science major

student, uh, surrounded by smart people.

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And we started a company doing

consultancy work while trying to explore

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and iterate over different solutions

that could lead to our first sauce.

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Um, and it was one of those

products that we created.

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Corporate messaging application that

one of our clients used to send messages

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internally, every time someone calls the

deal to kind of create excitement and

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awareness and like that bus, uh, both in

the call center, but also in the field.

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And that use case, uh, grew into a sales

screen, which was one of the first sales

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gamification platforms on the market.

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And that was launched in 2014.

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So from that point and onwards,

we've just been able to grow

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organically and we, I haven't

really spent a lot of money to grow.

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It's been very cost

efficient from the get go.

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Uh, so it wasn't until 2018.

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We raised our 1st round of money from

outside investors up until that point.

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We were 100 percent

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Upendra Varma: and where were you,

where were you as in terms of revenue

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in 2018 when you raised that first round

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Sindre Haaland: I think we're on 2 or

3 million dollar, uh, at that mark.

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Upendra Varma: and where did you invest

all of that external funding into?

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Was it on, you know, ramping up

your sales team and what was that?

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Sindre Haaland: going international.

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So this company is founded and

started back in Norway in Europe,

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which is a tiny, tiny country,

like we have 5 million people.

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Uh, it's not a good place to, to grow

big software as a service companies

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that is seat based, uh, licensing model.

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You kind of like need to

get into bigger markets.

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And, uh, uh, us was, uh, barely,

uh, one of those markets that we.

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We dreamt about that, uh, would

be a good fit for our product.

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Uh, so we, uh, raised money

from a strategic investor who

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had, uh, relationships and

experience with the U S market.

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It could help us, uh, uh, bridge the

gap culturally, but also financially

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to, to take this to the U S and,

uh, we did that and, uh, really

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leaned into the U S market in 2019.

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And it's now our fastest

growing market, uh, globally.

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So it's a good decision.

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Upendra Varma: And, and like,

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Sindre Haaland: We didn't

need a lot of money.

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Uh, bear in mind that we.

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We didn't have any money prepared

to that around, so we just

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took in a couple of 1M dollars.

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Um, and then we've done done

that a couple more times.

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So I think maybe in total,

we've raised roughly 7M dollars.

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Um.

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Uh, over the lifetime of this company,

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Upendra Varma: And let's talk about

the whole retention here, right?

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I'm assuming you must have pretty good

retention rates given the ticket sizes,

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but just talk about how that works

and your typical expansion as well.

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Sindre Haaland: our retention numbers

are, uh, similar to, uh, most, uh,

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enterprise softwares in that segment,

we have roughly 110 to 120 percent

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NRR and historically, uh, Perhaps even

been better, um, I would say across

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our customer base, because we do also

have, uh, quite a bit smaller clients.

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Uh, it's slower.

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So it's still above 100 percent NRR, but

on a gross revenue retention side, uh,

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we retain roughly 80, 85%, uh, per year.

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So we still need to.

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You know, sell, uh, in order to, to grow.

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Uh, but it's, uh, um, it's an, uh, it's

a, it's a decent, uh, business and one

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that, uh, we believe, um, it's going

to grow like the space that we're in.

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Um, there's so many talks about

AI and machine learning and people

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replacing SDRs and salespeople all

over, but like ultimately humans are

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going to be involved and go to market.

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And if you have you was involved, they

will need to do boring, repetitive tasks.

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And that, uh, that would greatly benefit

from some, some fun gamification elements.

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Like, yeah, I think I

haven't really specified it.

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Maybe it's almost like a given now.

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Like when I started the company,

nobody heard about gamification.

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Now I feel like everyone knows it,

but in principle, you just take

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game, like elements and apply it

to something that has nothing to

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do with games, like leaderboards.

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competition, rewards, badges,

achievements, trophies, these kind

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of things to kind of like spice

up something that has nothing to

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do the game with games really make

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Upendra Varma: So I can

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I think you must have been

like the one of the first ones

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to this, you know, category.

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Right.

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So like, was, was there any conscious

decision that you made to just, you

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know, not raise excessive amount of

money and, you know, just, you know,

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grow crazily, like, you know, like how a

typical category creator might do, right.

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For example, now outreach,

Salesforce, they had to do all

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of that, even gong, all of it.

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So, because the moment they

realized that they've got a new

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category, there is tons of money.

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And then, you know, they just, you know,

I know basically try to expand, right?

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So what was there any conscious decision

that you made, you know, back then to

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just, you know, grow, keep on growing

sustainably, you know, without, you

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know, raising excessive amounts of money.

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Sindre Haaland: we were actually leading

up to a bigger growth round and we

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had several offers on the table that

unfortunately are Uh, outside investor

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didn't, um, think was attractive enough.

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Uh, so we, we could have quickly have,

uh, ended up at the similar journey.

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Um, but when the market corrected

itself, um, we, um, we decided to

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go back to a bit of our bootstrap

roots and think more about

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profitability and sustainable growth.

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Uh, but clearly, you know, I,

I raised money for a reason.

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And, um, one of them were, we were

actually working with Oracle as a client.

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And they were expanding.

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Um, we were expanding with them quite

rapidly across all of their hubs, even

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to, to the APEC region and to the North

America region, um, until, you know, Oh,

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their it team centrally, uh, challenged

us saying, you're not really using any

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Oracle technology and you're offering,

and we, we don't have any vendors

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that doesn't use Oracle technology.

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So you've got to.

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You know, transition off of Microsoft

Azure and over to Oracle, if you want to

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keep us as a client and keep on growing.

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Um, and also we're a bit concerned

because you're, you know, you don't seem

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to have, we have a history of crushing

startups because we're so big and we have

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like tens of thousands of sales reps.

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So like how much money have you raised?

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How many people are you?

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Um, and you know, at the time we were only

25 or so, and we hadn't raised any money.

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So, uh, we realized that, okay, there is

a market opportunity, like enterprises

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and companies really want this, but

also we, we, we need outside funding to

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gain the muscles, to be able to really

deliver this globally and at scale.

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Um, So we had to do it if we

wanted to continue to grow,

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um, and take that opportunity.

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Uh, today we're just above 50 employees.

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So we're still quite cost effective, uh,

down maybe from, I think it was 70 at the

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most, uh, but it's, um, you know, that's

the correction that the most of software

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service companies have gone through.

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The recent years

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Upendra Varma: yeah, that

makes a lot of sense, right?

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So simply like one last question, right?

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So what's, what's the vision here, right?

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Where do you see your company

in the next two to three years?

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Sindre Haaland: division for sales

screen is really around that male

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management layer, because I think they're,

they're being burnt out and, and drain

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and just, I don't know, beaten and

pulled in every direction these days.

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Like, uh, uh, there's less of them as

well to, because of the focus on cost.

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And it's really tough to get people

ramped up and get them excited to do

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the hard work that they need to do

every day and keep them delivering.

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Um, at scale.

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So if we can help and really make their

life easier, uh, really make that the

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day to day work life of sales reps

all over globally, fun and exciting

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generally, like the deaf fun doing it.

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I think we make a, an impact that is.

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It's truly remarkable, not many companies

that I know is going in that direction

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is usually about some financial gains.

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So, for me, that is, uh, rewarding

in itself, but, uh, I would say

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that, uh, we probably, uh, need

to partner with someone, uh,

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else and, uh, really, uh, get.

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Step on the gas on the AI side to

help them on that next level, uh,

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type of, uh, support, and then I'm

talking about the front line managers.

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So instead of having them coming

into our tool and thinking about

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cool competitions, they could set

up and who needs an additional lift.

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Who should I coach this week?

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Uh, and have an extra talk with.

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Like our software should through

artificial intelligence surface that

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to the front line managers and give

them concrete, uh, I guess to course

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correct their performance trajectories

and really get to that next level

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without them having to, to think for

themselves really that that would make

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it, uh, that would be an ideal situation.

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And that's something that we're

working towards releasing this year.

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Upendra Varma: And financially,

what's, what's that goal that

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you're looking at, right?

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So are you looking to exit in the

near term or what's the plan here?

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Sindre Haaland: I mean, that

is not a goal in itself.

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Um, I think that, uh, if there is a new

owner that comes in and really believes

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in what we're doing, I want to step on

the gas that would excite a lot of people.

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And it could happen if that owner

has another company that has strong

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synergies, then, you know, we could merge.

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Um.

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Or, you know, we could become a platform

that, uh, acquires adjacent, uh, um,

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software sales tech, uh, but we could

also very well just continue as we are,

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because we keep on growing and there's,

um, a lot of signals, at least that we're

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seeing that the market is, um, Improving

and things are accelerating, like what

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I mentioned earlier with the outbound

motion being much more effective again.

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So I think that, um, we've all been

through some hard years and like

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the, the fruit of, uh, surviving

and driving in that, uh, market, uh,

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is something that we can harvest,

uh, over the next couple of years.

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So, uh, good years ahead.

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Upendra Varma: Yeah.

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Yeah, definitely.

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Yeah.

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Thanks.

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Thanks.

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Thanks for taking the time to talk to me.

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Hope to scale, scale screen

to much, much greater heights.

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Sindre Haaland: Thank you.