MD or PA? If you're stuck on this question, this episode is for you.

Dr. Richard Marn is an anesthesiologist and the host of the Health Careers Podcast, and he spends a lot of his time helping students figure out which healthcare path actually fits them. He didn't start out planning to do anesthesia either. He wanted to be a surgeon, and he talks about what changed his mind.

I get this question constantly, and my answer is always the same: don't pick based on prestige or on what your family expects. Pick based on the day-to-day life you want and how you want to spend the next decade. Richard says something similar, just from the other side of the table.

We also talk about the fact that there are way more healthcare careers than the two everyone argues about.

What we cover:

• Why Richard switched from surgery to anesthesiology
• How to actually compare MD and PA instead of guessing
• The training, time, and cost differences that matter most
• Why shadowing both is non-negotiable before you decide
• Other healthcare careers people overlook entirely
• How to tell if you're choosing a path for the wrong reasons

Resources:

Free Application Timeline: https://www.thepaplatform.com/services/free-application-timeline

Pre-PA Counseling: https://www.thepaplatform.com/services/pre-pa-counseling

PA Program Map: https://www.thepaplatform.com/pa-platform-map

Pre-PA Academy: https://prepaclub.thepaplatform.com/landing/academy

Today we're Talking to a doctor, Dr. Richard Marne of the Health Careers Podcast and he is an anesthesiologist with a really great story that I think you're going to enjoy.

Welcome to the Pre PA Club Podcast.

If you want to learn how to become a physician assistant, you're in the right place.

I'm your host, Savannah Perry.

Let's get to it.

I want to thank mypa Resource and PA School Prep for sponsoring the Prepa Club podcast.

So mypa Resource is a personal statement editing service that edits only PA school essays, only edited by PAs and most of us have admissions experience, so I am one of the editors.

Definitely check them out if you need help with your content grammar flow, making sure that you are on track for turning in your application and you can use the Code Future PA for a discount on any of their service options.

Hey guys, welcome to the Pre PA Club Podcast.

I'm your host Savannah Perry, a dermatology PA and the founder of the PA Platform, which is an all inclusive resource for anyone interested in the PA profession.

Welcome if you are new here, if you've been around a while, welcome back.

If you and I am so excited to share today's interview with you.

So I'll give you a little bit of insight into what we're going to talk about, but this is a really good one.

So this episode I think is great for anyone who is maybe still on the fence between PA school and med school or has some lingering doubts about their decision either way because it's been been a while since I had a physician on the podcast.

I think honestly since the very first year that I did this and we are in year three.

Well, I had Dr. Gadari, who is a UK doctor, but we're specifically talking to Dr. Richard Marne about his experience going through medical school, deciding what to do, becoming an anesthesiologist, and now his podcast called health careers with Dr. Marn where he talks to all all different kinds of healthcare professionals to give insight to more students about options that are out there that they may not know about.

You can actually find my interview about being a PA on his podcast this week it launched.

So make sure you go check that out.

You can have a double podcast party and then you can hear his insights here.

So his story is very interesting.

You're going to hear all about it.

But one thing we talk about in medicine is how as a PA you can switch specialties and change your mind.

But guess what?

Dr. Martin did that too.

He started as thinking he was going to be a surgeon and decided that wasn't for him.

So I really want you to pay attention to that and see that there are definitely ways that you can have a flexible career or do different things, whether you are a doctor or a PA or so that you're looking at the job itself when you're making your decision.

All right, we will get to our interview with Dr. Marn.

There are a couple important dates for you to be aware of, and one thing that you can go ahead and register for is the CASPA webinar.

This is our free webinar series that we do each month.

And so this one will be on, if you're listening, in real time, March 18th.

And so if you have CASPA questions, CASPA is about to open in about two months, so you have some time, but we can go ahead and start answering your questions there.

Also, I have a big announcement that that you'll hear first at the webinar.

So I'm excited about that, but it should be fun.

Good time.

Check out social media for entering questions ahead of time and then I will see you there.

And as always, if you need help with anything preparing for the upcoming cycle, feel free to send me a question.

Or if you want a pre PA assessment or need help with supplementals, all of those options [email protected] and you can use the code futurepa for a discount on those as well.

Let's get to hearing from Dr. Marne.

Well, thanks for having me on your podcast and your YouTube channel.

I appreciate that, Savannah.

It's great to be.

I'm glad we connected.

I'm Richard Marne.

I'm a physician and my specialty is that I'm an anesthesiologist and pediatric anesthesiologist.

So that's my clinical specialty.

Awesome.

How long have you been doing that?

Nice flies.

It really does.

It really does.

I'm six years out and it feels so weird to be that far out.

Feels like I just graduated, but.

Okay.

What, what made you interested in medicine?

How did you end up here?

Well, I was always.

Well, I would.

For a long time I was interested in being a doctor and this is because my parents, in particular, my dad, kind of encouraged me and we would sit around the dinner table, my brother, my sister and I, and he would kind of repeat the same thing.

Oh, make us so proud if you'd be a doctor or a Lawyer.

And I'm like, is that all?

That's the only thing?

Yes.

I'm like, go right.

And you know, as kids we're like, you know, you kind of poo poo what your parents say.

But it somehow had a effect on me over the years and since fifth grade I, I want to be a surgeon.

That was my, my, my goal.

And, and so I kind of, throughout the, as, as I progressed through high school and in college, that was always in the back of my mind that was my kind of, my goal to be a physician and then eventually be a surgeon.

And I only know that because a couple years ago I went home from New York to Hawaii where I grew up and I was going through some old papers and I remember in the bio of this, this little, you know, these.

You write a book as a fifth grader and you have to choose a topic.

Yes.

You have to write something about the author.

And in the author it says Richard Marin wants to be a surgeon.

I said, oh, I guess that's why I was thinking back then.

And so that I think that trickle effect of my dad kind of bring it up.

And I had a lot of positive reinforcement over the years where I volunteered in hospitals and I was encouraged by other family members, less frequent but positive encouragement.

And I of course did well in you know, the basic subjects that people imagine like you know, science and math and such.

And so I felt okay, I can keep doing this.

And so that continued on into college.

And in college I joined the emergency support team which is at Washington University where I went to college is a first responder group made of college students and pre selective.

And so when I got in I felt oh, even more positive reinforcement.

And what they do is they serve as a first responder to any events or issues that are on the campus before the paramedics or EMT show up.

And so you're surrounded by other healthcare oriented students and therefore you're like, okay, this is good, I like doing it.

I like taking care of people and especially these little things.

Throughout my life.

In college, after I became an EMT as part of emergency support team, this club if you will.

I remember when I was in Hawaii, somebody passed out on in a shopping center and I happened to be right near there and I remember attending to them.

There was no paramedics around, nobody knew what to do.

And this must have been about the 20 something year old person, a woman, and I think she had some kind of syndrome.

I want to see down syndrome and I'm not sure what happened but I remember being there, kind of directing things, holding inline, traction, because it was.

I didn't see the fall.

No one could tell me what happened.

And then the paramedics came.

I gave him my report, and I felt, wow, this is really a cool, positive feeling, helping somebody out.

You don't know.

So those.

All those little things along the way kind of got me to kind of keep a goal of being a doctor that my parents, in particular, my dad kind of had trickled into my mind for a long time.

That's really good.

That's actually similar to my story as well.

Um, and that's something I talk about a lot, is these kind of, like, pivotal moments that stand out to you that when you're back, like, okay, that confirmed for me that this is what I wanted to do or pushed me in a certain direction, whether it was helping somebody or a personal medical issue or whatever kind of things that come up.

So.

All right, so you decided, you know, you were set on medical school, school, that whole process.

Can you.

I think a lot of people ask, like, what's the difference in PA school and med school?

And I've talked about what PA school is like on here.

Yeah, A gazillion times.

But I think we've.

I've had one other doctor on at the very beginning, and I don't know that I've had one on since then or wanted to talk about this, actually.

Thank you.

I did interview one recently, but he works in the uk, so it's like a little.

We were talking about other stuff, a little different, a little different, but can you just give an overview?

Because it is just more involved.

There are all these steps into what it takes to become a doctor.

Like, what were your steps to get to where you are now?

So I'd like to finish the question.

I didn't really finish it.

The question you answered.

You know, finish my answer.

Just because I just realized.

Wait a second, I didn't answer your question.

So I talked about being a doctor, but you asked, how did I get into, you know, how to get into, you know, this career and profession?

So, yeah, like, here I am.

So here I am.

I want to be a surgeon, and I.

And so you get to medical school and all these other opportunities show up because you start, you really dive into that specialty or that degree that you're in, and you're with other healthcare professionals and medical students and start.

I started thinking about family practitioner, being a family practitioner and geriatrics, but I would still want to be a surgeon.

And in fact, I want to stand out.

So in my third year of medical school, I came across Dr. Joe DeShawn.

He was a urologist at Triple Army Medical center, which is in Hawaii.

And I was just really impressed by what he was doing and how he did it.

Then I want to become a urologist.

When I applied for the match, I applied for urology, and I ended up doing my surgery internship at University of Colorado Denver Health, University of Colorado Health Science center, which is in Denver.

And I remember that internship, like many other doctors.

And that internship was challenging and difficult, which wasn't surprising.

But what was eye opening for me was I didn't really like doing the surgery.

I didn't like.

I enjoyed the surgery, but I didn't like the life of the surgeon.

I started looking at the chief residents.

I started looking in surgery.

I started looking at the surgeons and what they were doing and how they talk about their lives.

And I didn't want to be like that.

And I remember distinctly there was this one chief surgeon who chewed me out for something that, on hindsight, was not.

It didn't change a patient's outcome, but he was obviously very angry at me.

And I was being dressed down, basically.

And of course, I feel embarrassed and.

A little bit and angry as well.

And I realized I don't want to be like that.

I don't want to be that type of person.

Whether that was the surgery itself, whether that's a life, that was just that person, it wasn't clear to me.

But I just saw too much of that in a lot of these surgeons.

I just didn't want to be like that.

So someone recommended anesthesia.

And so I went to.

By that time, I'd done like one or two days of anesthesia, fortunately.

And.

And by time I decided, okay, let me consider doing this.

It was already the scramble, which is this period where you.

In medicine, if you get a MD degree, you can look for other residencies.

And so I decided too late to have to scramble.

And my first interview I got was nyu.

So I went to NYU like, in about a week later, after the scramble and halfway during the interview, they offered me the spot.

And Savannah, I tell you, I was like, well, thank you very much.

But in the back of my mind, I wasn't sure if I really wanted to be an anesthesiologist.

It was still something I was playing with.

I thought I'd just try it out.

So I said, thank you very much.

I'll get back to you in about a week.

So I get back to him.

I went back to Denver.

I thought about it, I said, let me just do it.

So I set out, yes, I'll do it.

Went back to nyu, Went to NYU that summer.

And professionally, the best decision I ever made, it was eye opening to be on the other side of that.

That blue curtain.

And it was intellectually stimulating.

You were doing procedures, you were doing life savings, learning life saving techniques.

And you get positive reinforcement.

And I also decided on being a pediatric anesthesiologist because I had a really impressive someone to look up to.

Tom Shibling, a pediatric anesthesiologist.

I think he's in New Jersey.

And he just.

The way he did it, I was like, that is so cool how he does anesthesia.

And he had such great respect from the surgeons that when they were.

Even though there was other pediatric anesthesiologists in the room, they say, where's Tom?

Get Tom.

And so I want to be like that.

And so the ironic thing for me, Savannah, and I'm sorry if this is a longer story than you anticipate.

Oh, it's fine.

No, I just have more questions.

But yeah.

Is when I was in medical school, I did not like, I did not want to be an anesthesiologist.

That was like.

That's like other side of the screen.

I want to be a surgeon.

That's the first thing.

And the second thing is in my rotation for pediatrics, I did not like it at all.

I wouldn't say despise it, but it was something I said.

I'm never being a pediatrician.

I'm not even doing.

Something I never envisioned ever doing at all, even in medical school.

So.

But best professional decision I ever made.

And, and, and happy I did.

So that's how I got to where I'm at.

So to answer.

Yeah, I want to answer your next question, though.

You want to go to your next question, which is.

Let me ask you.

No, that's.

That's so great because it.

I mean, that shows a lot of things, just about kind of the path you've taken and that it's not always just very straight and straightforward, even in becoming a physician, I think also.

So, like, one of the stereotypes, I guess is the best word is that as a physician you can't change specialties, which, I mean, I wouldn't say necessarily.

You, like, went through a whole residency and changed your specialty, but.

But you did, I mean, change your path after.

Kind of.

Even after medical school.

Yeah, after medical school, after starting residency, and then even after finishing and by doing a fellowship.

And so.

And we'll get into talking.

I like also that you touched on realizing that you didn't want that work life balance quote that people use that you saw from other people in that profession.

And that, I mean, those are things that I think are important for maybe somebody considering med school versus PA school to hear from your point of view, for sure.

And I'll say my husband had similar thoughts.

He thought he wanted to do surgery and kind of like you, he would have rotations or certain mentorships that were just awesome.

And he wanted to do ophthalmology and then urology and then, like, all these different things because of who he was with.

And he.

But ultimately, like, surgery wasn't.

He just didn't want the lifestyle that came with surgery.

And even thinking about, you know, it would be cool to do ICU and critical care, but I see those people, and I don't want that lifestyle.

And also choosing to not make his profession his identity, if that makes sense, was kind of part of that too.

So just pre pas, I want you all to hear that no matter if you're a PA or a physician, you can choose your work life balance, but that may mean looking at a different specialty or kind of adjusting what your goals are.

Agreed.

You know, it's interesting.

A lot of us are inspired by the people around us.

Yes.

Especially when we have direct contact with them.

And just like I Talked about this Dr. DeShawn, he was a urologist.

I really love what he was doing and how he did it in urology.

But so it's fascinating how we kind of make decisions on how we choose careers and professions based on the people we're around.

And I'm not sure, Zavant, if that's always the best way it works.

A lot of people are inspired by other people, and that's okay.

But is that really a good match for you?

And sometimes you don't know about it, how it's like, until you actually do it.

And I.

That's.

That's my question.

Like, why.

Why do you think it took until residency to figure out that you didn't like surgery?

That's a good question.

Maybe.

I see sometimes when you have a. I guess when you have a goal, sometimes you ignore the negative aspects of it, believing that, well, I can live with that.

Yeah.

And.

And maybe I suspect that was what happened while I was being.

Because then I was really a surgery intern.

I wasn't a surgery.

I was a medical student in surgery rotation.

I was a surgery intern.

Living and doing the things a surgeon had done and will be doing, and sometimes you don't.

If I.

Maybe I blocked it out of what.

All these things I saw along.

Along the way throughout the years, whether I was volunteering or helping out in other aspects.

I enjoyed mental health care.

I enjoyed helping people and being part of that and having contact with people and talking to people.

I really like talking to people.

That's why, at least at one point, I thought it'd be about being a geriatric specialist.

But.

But I think for me, it's.

You have to.

Everybody has to find their own path.

But for me, I had to actually live it and see it and experience it before I realized this is not something I lost.

I enjoy doing.

I was actually professionally very lost when I decided I wanted to be a surgeon.

Because, remember, I.

For a long time, for many years, from fifth grade till, I don't know, age 26 or so, 27, I want to be a surgeon.

That's what I had in my mind of some surgery type.

So it was very challenging to make that transition initially to a new career.

And I think sometimes some people just need a little bit longer to find their path.

And that's okay, because once you find your path, you're probably going to be in it for a while.

Like, you know, medical school, you put so much years in it, you're going to probably be.

If you're going to be a nephrologist, you're typically going to be a nephrologist for the rest of your life.

Right.

Not going to go switch to surgery or.

Or change into an ICU doctor.

So that's.

But you can, you know, it's not so written stone.

It just becomes more challenging as you get older to make those shifts.

So, you know, that's a Interesting phenomena.

Interesting phenomenon, how we kind of make those changes, you know, in our careers.

But anyway, that's.

That's kind of how I got into what I'm doing, and I enjoy doing it.

I've had a lot of positive reinforcement along the way to encourage me to go a certain direction, like an anesthesia now.

So I. I felt I, in some way excelled in many ways because of that.

That's awesome.

Okay, well, we'll circle back and give a quick overview for the process of becoming.

I feel like we've, like, touched on it, but we'll give like, a straightforward.

Like, what does it take to become a doctor?

Yes.

Like, if somebody wanted to do what you're doing, what steps would they have to take?

It's pretty straightforward.

So I did the typical thing which Is graduate from high school, go to college, a four year college.

Typically you got to do well and have a few extracurricular activities and then get into medical school, which is four years.

And then from there it's residency.

So residency is made up of.

It's anywhere from three to seven plus years, depending on which specialty you choose.

That's it.

So you add four years of college plus four years of medical school and then anywhere from three to seven years, maybe more.

Depend on your specialty.

So that's the typical track for medical students or medical, you know, becoming a meta physician.

Okay, perfect.

And then.

Okay, so I want to talk about anesthesiology a little bit because you probably, I think when we talked on your podcast.

So you really don't interact with PAs very much, right?

Not directly.

So when I see PAs, like right now I don't because I'm in private practice.

But in the hospital setting we'll see PAs.

They will usually be assisting other services such as pediatricians or surgeons or other kind of internal medicine doctors.

But when we, when anesthesiologists would typically see them would be in the OR, so you'll have PAs who as you know, work in the operating room and they find that they tend to, you know, they tend to be with surgeons that are pretty well established and also with kind of what I kind of describe as the more high yield, high, more lucrative professions.

Not always, but typically.

So they'll typically be with the cardiothoracic surgeons or the neurosurgeons or the orthopedic surgeons or maybe an established general surgeon who is very busy and wants to have their own PA all the time.

And that PA would typically be, in my experience, be on more on the technical side.

So they would do clinical work and such and maybe around and such.

But their main focus I found in or was helping being that first assistant to the surgeons.

And of course that they're so good at it because that's all they do.

For example, they may be a PA for a well known neurologist who does.

And all they do is prostates, you know, robotic prostatectomies.

And so that PA is all they do is helping with those robotic prostatectomies.

All right?

And of course they have to juggle things because they have to let the resident kind of come in every so often and how to let them help out while the PA kind of does their role at the same time being efficient with what the surgeon wants.

Often these PAs would work under the direction of the surgeon.

In other words, they don't necessarily bounce around to different surgeries or different surgeons.

They usually stay with that surgeon because they know exactly what they like.

And they would serve as a very high end from a hierarchical standpoint, like a, like a high end fellow.

Like they know exactly what the next step is.

They could assist in any particular thing.

So.

And they could do clinical work at the same time.

So that's how anesthesiologists would interact with PAs, typically.

Okay.

My experience now, so and so for people listening, just to clarify, so PAs typically do not, and I don't even think can go into anesthesiology.

That would be a just different profession.

So there's anesthesiologist assistants, which is, I would say probably the closest thing to a pa, but they're only able to work in certain states.

And then there's the crna, which is a nurse who's gone on to get advanced anesthesia training.

Do you interact with either of those professions at all?

So I've only worked as an anesthesiologist in New York and in Maryland.

And so I had, I've had no interactions with, you know, anesthesia assistance.

Okay.

I've had a lot of interactions with nurse anesthetists.

I've actually had one on my podcast.

And so those are two very similar roles, but very different paths to get there.

Yeah.

As you may know.

But anesthesia assistance is very interesting.

That's very.

It's a little political because obviously, like, kind of like pas, it depends on the state you're in.

Yeah.

You know, and whether they even allow PAs.

Like, as far as I know, I'm not up to date on this, but I don't think AA anesthesia assistants or AAs are allowed to work in New York.

So you have to decide if that's really something that you want to be hampered by.

Locality, nurse anesthetists, physicians, you can work anywhere you want.

United States.

You just may have to take that certain license test or what have you for that, that state.

But, but in terms of functions, my understanding, and this is not grounded on my experience, but just my understanding reading what AAs have been trained to do is they pretty much are like they're an assistant to the anesthesiologist.

They really do function to serve as, especially when they become more experienced like super residents in anesthesia.

And also in some ways almost some capacities, like a nurse anesthetist.

Now, I don't know that for sure.

What I can speak of is nurse anesthesist, a nurse anesthetist.

They definitely have to become a nurse anesthetist, you have to go to college, and that could be a nursing school as well.

And then they have to.

Do they have to go to the graduate program for.

For to become a nurse anesthetist?

Usually they want those nurses before they go into CRNA school, to have ICU experience before doing so.

And then once.

Once they're in that CRNA school, they graduate and they start working as CRNAs.

So it's really just four, plus two more years.

I think it's two more years of CRNA school.

Okay.

And so what are the differences in what, like, a CRNA can do and what you do or like what the physician anesthesiologists do?

It depends on the state.

Everything.

Yeah.

So anesthesiologists, you know, have the full breadth of doing whatever anesthesia care they need to do, neonates, pediatrics, cardiac, and whatever.

Whatever specialty that or area that you're interested in, or all of it.

Nurses in New York have to work under the purview of another physician.

In other words, they cannot work independently.

However, in a lot of other states, and even it depends, in other states, nurses can work independent.

CRNAs can work independently.

However, the physician.

The physician has to kind of be responsible a little bit for who they hire, obviously the surgeon, for example.

But CRNAs can work independently, depending on what state you're in.

There's a lot of politics in this, like many things.

And so Obviously, lot of CRNAs want to get more into, not all of them, but a good number of them want more independence.

And the anesthesiologists kind of want them to not have so much independence because they want that.

A lot of them kind of like that structure where the CRNA has to work under the anesthesiologist.

Gotcha.

Yeah.

And that.

I think there will always be divided views on all of that.

But crna, some of them are fantastic.

I gotta tell you.

There's so many good ones.

And.

And a lot of them can be very, very skilled.

And like any specialty, there's always going to be some that are not so great and some that are phenomenal, and there's a lot of people in between, just like anesthesiologists.

But the schooling is also a little different.

Obviously there's a lot more schooling as being anesthesiologist, which is a physician, versus a crna, which is more of a nursing route.

And the approach is a little bit.

A little different.

Obviously, the relationship between your colleagues and work colleagues with the surgeon may be a little different from a surgeon to a CNA versus a surgeon to an anesthesiologist.

There's that commonality that maybe a surgeon anesthesiologist can share and can.

And that mutual sign, you know, mutual respect and appreciation that sometimes maybe surgeons don't appreciate or recognize with CRNAs even though if they're, they're very, very skilled and excellent in their job and but those, that's very subtle skill wise.

There's some fantastic CRNAs that are skill wise better than anesthesiologists in my opinion.

And of course the other way around as well.

Yeah.

And I mean same thing for I would say PAs and probably any profession in medicine, honestly we see that.

So what as an anesthesiologist like what does your typical day look like?

What I guess schedule wise and what do you actually do in your job?

Do you want me kind of describe the academic versus my private practice experience?

So currently I'm in private practice.

So what I do is I, I usually get to the, to the.

And I specialize in two little areas, plastic surgery, anesthesia and pediatric dental sedations in office.

And I literally go to different offices who have sometimes or setups or just areas that are designed for sedation and I bring my, and I get set up.

It's usually about 6:30 in the morning.

I arrive, we're bringing the patient in a room between 7 to 7:30 and I'm there doing cases anywhere from anywhere as early as 4 o' clock till 7 o' clock at night.

So sometimes long days.

Yeah.

With the main surgeon I work with right now we'll do two, three cases a day, sometimes four, sometimes one, but usually about two to three.

And so that's my typical day.

And I'm working with a fantastic plastic surgeon right now and I enjoy working with him but.

And I also work with pediatric dentists in those situation I go to the pediatric dental offices and I provide sedation there.

That's kind of what I do now when I used to be in academics for about 10 plus years, usually I show up a little later because that case starts a little bit later.

Sites show up around 7:15, 7:30 cases start usually around 8.

So we'd often see the patient around 7:45, literally 40, 15 minutes before they start the surgery.

That's how most people are introduced to anesthesiologists.

And then we bring the patient to the room.

Usually all the paperwork and all the labs and everything is already vetted out and done so that we don't have to decrease the chance for delays or cancellations, then we do surgery.

And that day could be very variable.

In academics, you could be doing stent placements within the bladder, or you could be doing thoracotomies.

Or I could, my case, I'd be doing maybe colonoscopies or pediatric inguinal hernias or tonsillectomies or oral surgeons or oral surgeries.

So that day could be, I could be doing one case, two cases, I could be doing 10 cases, depending on what specialty you're doing.

And then for that, I usually leave around around 5, around plus or minus an hour on average, depends on how the call system is set up.

And then sometimes if you're on call, you obviously stay later and you may get the next day off.

And sometimes you take more call to highlight this.

In private practice, I'm not technically on call, but I'm readily available to the surgeon if he has an add on case that we need to do for emergencies.

And also I often call the patients the night before, if not days before sometimes, so they get to know me and get to speak to me.

I don't see the patient like 15 minutes before the surgery, which is typically what you'll see in academics, that private practice, just a little bit more hands on, a bit more boutique ish, if you will.

And patients like that.

Well, that was one of my questions too, was because I think anesthesia gets a bad rap for like, oh, that doctor doesn't want to talk to their patients or be around you.

Do you still feel like you get patient interaction where you're actually, you know, talking to the patient when they're awake?

No, that's, you know, that's the thing.

I miss something I missed.

Savannah, you know, like I told you, I like talking to patients.

And in anesthesia, you have a very short amount of time to gain the confidence and trust of that patient.

Often that trust and confidence in anesthesiologist is because they're at an academic center and they trust the surgeons going to choose the right people or have the right people with them.

And so inherently you kind of gain that from your associations, even though they've never met you until 15 minutes before surgery.

But you still have to fortify that as an anesthesiologist and try to garner that and not make them more nervous because maybe you don't know what you're doing or you're mean and they don't like you now.

And so you, you learn how to be efficient with your time with the patient and know how to make, try Your best to make them at ease.

So I like to, if it's the right patient, usually when my patients, I like to be a little bit more light hearted.

Yeah.

And try to be, sometimes joke around if it's the right, right setting, you know, just to kind of make things a bit more tense.

Because most patients, 99% of time they are stressed being there because they know there's something about to happen and they, they just have to go with it.

And so that's.

And it's even challenging when you are a pediatric anesthesiologist because you have to gain the trust or reinforce that trust and confidence of the parents who are handing over their kid to you to take care of.

That's a bit of a challenge.

Often, even after surgery, we don't necessarily see the parents for much.

If though we drop the patient off in the recovery room, the parents come in, we may give an update.

Otherwise we're running off to the OR to start our next case.

It's something that you develop as a skill.

You're right.

As anesthesiologists, we don't talk to patients as much as maybe surgeons do or the nurses do or the PAs do because we just don't have that time for that in our.

What we do as a job.

And so you have to hone that skill so that patients can trust you.

And when the patients start to trust you, enjoy being around you, the surgeons can see that too.

And they'll say, hey, I want to work with this guy some more.

Let's keep working with him.

And so again, a lot of these patients gain that trust because the surgeon or the proceduralist, it goes somewhere to some hospital and they work with this person and can vouch for them.

That's usually how we get that trust.

Okay.

Yeah, I was curious about that, but okay, I have a, I guess an advice question because even though this is technically the pre PA club, a lot of people go back and forth or feel on the fence between PA and med school.

What advice would you have to somebody who thinks they might want to do med school?

Maybe they're probably in like the undergrad level.

Maybe they've had pressure from parents or other people, or maybe it's something they've wanted to do forever, but they just aren't sure.

What would your advice be in that situation to help make them, help them make that decision?

You know, once you're in medical school, there's a joke, you know, you know what the.

They call the person that graduates last in medical school a doctor A doctor.

Right.

Okay.

You know, and the fact is that there.

That you.

Once you're a doctor and you graduate, you have the whole world open up to you in terms of what you could do, whether it's pediatrics or you want to be a radiologist, there's so many opportunities.

And that's the one great thing I really like about being in medicine and being a physician is it allows me opportunities that sometimes I didn't realize until I was working as an anesthesiologist, for example.

I really never envisioned that I would be in private practice when I was working the first few years as a attending anesthesiologist.

But it.

But because I am now, and I.

And I.

And I finished medical school, did my training, it opens up other opportunities, like, oh, what kind of else can I do with this degree?

And you'll see there's actually several podcasts out there that talk about other careers that physicians can do.

Yeah.

Not whether it's clinical or non clinical.

There's a lot of other opportunities.

And so that's.

That is one benefit that I like to highlight that I can speak of positively, where it opened up opportunities for me to engage in and be a part of as an anesthesiologist.

And I'm.

I'm not restricted by any state laws.

Assuming that you're in good standing, you know, you just have to get the license because you took all the necessary tests and you pass your boards and whatever.

Now it's just a matter of, can I move somewhere?

Whether it's Georgia or Florida or, you know, Iowa or California, Alaska, I can work there.

Right.

And gives you that freedom.

And of course, the pride that I have, just because I know that I'm a physician, and not necessarily because I got the title, it's because I worked hard to get there, and I carry that with me, that badge of.

That I went through the.

Got through the trenches and I got out that got out at the other end.

And so, you know, there's a lot of pride in that.

Some people, you know, wears off a little bit after, over the years, because I'm like, all right, I've been a doctor for a while, but it's still.

I'm like, hey, I'm very proud to be a physician because I got through it and I achieved something that I set my mind to and.

And you know what, day to day, I am really helping people.

I'm helping them through whatever their problems are, and I get them through it sometimes with a lot of smiles, and it feels great.

And I know other people can experience that in other parts of healthcare, as I've learned in talking with a lot of other specialties.

But there's a lot of pride in that, that you became a doctor and you're helping people out as a physician.

So that's.

Well, it sounds like you're happy with your decision.

I am.

I am.

And, you know, the funny thing is it just opens up, you know, more doors, and you don't have to.

You can be an academic physician if you want to be, or be as in a group and be that, and that's fine.

And you can be that for 20, 30, 40 years if you really want to and have a great life.

It's just that if one thing for me that was positive is it did open more doors.

And when you're in a physician and you're talking to other physicians, there's a certain understanding that, hey, we're at the same level.

We're communicating on something.

There's no one really we're answering to unless it's an administrator from a clinical standpoint.

And let's.

Let's kind of address this problem together and solve solutions.

And there's like, okay, you're a doctor, I'm a doctor.

And I know it's.

There's other specialties and careers that contribute to that conversation when we're taking care of patients, but there's definitely a lot of respect, usually between physicians.

Now, that being said, I've seen a lot of positive relationships as well between other specialties, whether it's a nurse and a physician, and there's a lot of great respect there.

But that's just one of those little subtle things that are.

That allow.

Because your physician allows you to communicate, if you would, on the same level, if you will, with another physician, another specialty.

Yeah.

And some of that, I think, is hard to understand until you're in medicine, like, really in it.

But I totally get what you're saying.

But tell us a little bit about your podcast and kind of what inspired you to start that and where we can find you and all of that fun stuff.

My podcast is called health careers with Dr. Martin.

When people think about healthcare, they think about, oh, doctors and nurses.

But it's actually, as you know, so much more than that.

And it's really geared for students, like high school and college and graduate students and maybe career Counselors and pre health advisors to kind of learn about different careers besides what they read on blog posts and other media.

It's really to hear it from people really doing the work, to hear their voice and hear their intonations and their stories in their voice as opposed to something they read, to really understand and gather what it's really like to be in that field.

And so that's what I attempted to do.

I did this because about just over a year ago I had thought about this and the pandemic hit and the lockdown hit here in New York and it accelerated this idea.

But the idea to connect with more people than what I do, as we talked about, what I do is very singular.

I take care of one patient one time.

I'm not like an ICU doctor.

I'm juggling multiple patients at one time or clinic where there's a lot of patients kind of that you'll see in one day.

And you're kind of juggling maybe several patients one time.

This is one way that I thought, how can I reach as an anesthesiologist, multiple people and help them out and kind of introduce them to something that maybe they're not familiar with?

So that's where this came up with, and this is where I came up with that idea.

And quite frankly, it's.

I reach into my resources.

So one thing about anesthesiologists is we meet a lot of different specialties.

It's a bad analogy, but it's like a family practitioner of surgeons or the surgical field.

So it's like you have your hand in everything.

You can do cardiac, thoracic surgery, you can do neurosurgery, you can do orthopedic podiatry, oral surgery, pediatric dentistry.

You're in a whole bunch of different things.

And so over the years, I've collected a lot of friends and resources and tapped into that to bring those on as guests.

And so a lot of my guests, especially early on, have been those resources and people that I've known that, that I know enjoy their job and enjoy doing it and can speak well of their experience.

But also to introduce a lot of kids, young people, students, who want to know what their decision making process is.

Like, how do you decide that?

Like, why'd you choose pediatric anesthesiology?

Come on.

Like, I didn't think about doing that at all, you know, and how did that come about?

And how does it affect them?

And how can it, how could it affect them with that knowledge of someone else's experience?

Because that's what you want to do is learn from other people's experiences so you can minimize mistakes on your end as you progress in your life and your career.

So that's was.

That's kind of how it came about.

And so I.

It's a weekly podcast and I have great guests like Savannah Perry.

Hmm.

Great guess.

And.

And it allows me again, opportunities, you know, start pockets.

Whoever thought about doing this when I was in academics, but allows me to meet some really wonderful people who are also trying to have a positive impact like yourself.

For young people who need probably better guidance, especially when there's a pandemic going on.

And the interactions that you and I maybe grew up with these students nowadays don't have that, you know, that face to face time and hands on time that is a little bit more limited.

Because of COVID No, I love it so much and I love that you're highlighting a bunch of different careers.

And I probably will try to connect you with some people who I know who have done some cool stuff, but because that is I think, an issue and in what I've done in working with students so much and working with people who have done different things, a lot of people at the ages like you're talking about at undergrad level just don't know their options and it ends up kind of making it harder later on.

And so I think the more resources that are available that kind of help them to get exposure to all of those things and all of those options and figuring out why someone else did it and what that path looks like will be so beneficial.

So I think there's so many options out there.

Yeah.

As you know, that people is not even on their radar and they're like, wow, I can get do this with less schooling and less debt and less time and still do well and excel.

You don't have to go into medical school to be an anesthesiologist.

You can do anesthesia and be an anesthesia assistant or crna, which takes so much less time, less schooling, and you still do very well financially.

So, you know, it's.

It's having those options and introducing people, especially people that maybe don't have the connections or the resources that make to let them realize also there's a lot of career opportunities that are looking for good people too, you know, and so that's what I'm kind of trying to open up a little bit to provide an.

It's not supposed to be the end all, be all resource, but to be a supplemental resource for people who need to hear from other people that maybe they don't know much about.

Yeah, I think it's a great, even just starting point for exploring some of that.

So we'll make sure all of your info is in the description so can find you there.

But thank you so much.

Thank you, Savannah.

It's great to reconnect.

I'm glad we kind of got to talk to each other in this way.

Yes, me too.