Most blue collar business owners see real estate as either something they have to deal with or a major expense eating into their profits.

Brad sits down solo with millennial real estate investor Geoff Stuhr to explore how property ownership can become a wealth building tool instead of just another overhead cost. We discuss the generational differences in approaching property ownership, why selling your building and leasing it back might make more sense than you think, and the three critical factors to evaluate before buying your first commercial property.

Geoff shares insights from managing $50 million in assets across industrial, multifamily, and self-storage properties, plus why investing in American manufacturing infrastructure is a smart long term play regardless of tariff uncertainty.

Highlights

• Why selling your building and leasing it back creates cash to invest in your business while decoupling real estate from your sellable assets.
• The three non-negotiables before buying commercial property including location in the path of progress, conservative financing under 65% leverage, and flexible building layouts.
• Why projects always cost 20-30% more and take longer than expected so buy buildings that don't need major renovations.
• How automation and robotics in manufacturing facilities help attract and retain younger talent beyond just good lighting and clear signage.
• Critical mistakes younger business owners need to avoid when buying their first commercial property including getting over-leveraged and falling for bad deals from brokers chasing commissions.

Subscribe to Blue Collar BS for more real conversations about running and growing your business. Share this episode with a business owner who's wrestling with whether to buy, lease, or sell their commercial property.

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Hey everyone, welcome back to this episode of the Blue Collar BS podcast. I am Brad and my co Steve is out doing college tours with his daughter. So he's not going to make it today. And some of you might be saying, Hey, that's great. Others you might be disappointed. I don't care. It's all good. We're to do the show anyhow without him. So today I have with us our guest, Jeff Stewart.

He's a seasoned real estate investor fund manager and advisor over a decade of experience building wealth through cash flowing rental properties He's been all over the place. He's got 50 million dollars in assets under management Spans to multiple asset classes single single-family multifamily self self storage you name it He is the real estate guy in our network right now to talk about Maximizing opportunities and Jeff. Thank you for being on our show today

I'm very appreciative. Thank you, Brad, for having me. And this is an exciting one because a lot of times I'm just on very specific real estate related podcasts, but I do, I love everything about the blue collar mindset and approach. And I like your style with it, the blue collar BS podcast. I'm looking forward to this.

Well, and without Steve being here, we can probably do a little bit more BS. And that's okay. Maybe we can talk shit about him. It's all good. So because Steve's not here, I get to ask the question of what generation are you part of or belong to?

Hey, I like it. Nothing against Steve, but...

I am firmly in the middle of the millennial age ranges. So I am right there as firmly planted as a millennial.

And that, like we talked pre show that kind of puts you in this awkward spot of the, know, the elder millennials may have done some things that maybe you don't agree with. And the younger may not be in that situation. So you're probably in that two, three year gap of awkwardness of how my peers behave or react and go, huh, this is weird.

Yeah, you're not joking, you're not lying about that. There's definitely some intergeneration dynamics that come across every day that you got to figure out how to work with folks that have been in business for a very long time and you got to figure out how to work with people that are in younger generations that have come up in a totally different world.

I think it's definitely relevant to have that in mind.

So where did your passion and desire for real estate come?

Yeah, that's a good question. I honestly, sometimes I tell people that I think real estate investing is in your blood almost. So I didn't know this before I started investing in real estate. But my grandma, actually, when she passed away, I had learned, I didn't really know what she did for like her job or anything my whole life.

No, she made turkey Thanksgiving. She made Christmas dinner. That's what she did. You just went there. Okay, great.

She was a wonderful grandma and, you know, God rest her soul. She was a great woman, she had her first husband actually passed away. And so not my grandpa, but passed away in a car accident. And she took the...

life insurance proceeds and bought duplexes in La Crosse, Wisconsin and was pretty much a landlord for the rest of her life. And so when I found that out, there was a couple other things that happened too. I'd met my now business partner right out of college who was a mentor of mine and he was buying rental properties. And then the more that I had learned about...

Nice.

you know, the benefits and the, know, the, the wealth building potential within being a landlord and owning real estate investments. I just got more and more interested in that. And, I bought one duplex and then I went over and picked up the, I had it listed and, had a tenant, I had a tenant in one side already, and then I marketed it to have at least up on the other side as well. And, I, know, it was like,

was a lot of demand. There was a bunch of people there. It was kind of an open house thing. And, you know, one guy in particular, I thought was, was a great fit and the background check all worked out and he, you know, he came with a security deposit and first month's rent and in hand. I thought, wow, I'm to be a real estate mogul. And, it hasn't quite turned out that way, but it's been a great business. And you know, now it's, it's evolved, you know, as you were talking about before, from, know, just buying duplexes to.

You know, our primary focus now is buying industrial assets. So manufacturing buildings, know, warehouses, distribution centers, and, you know, we work with a lot of folks that are very, you know, have blue collar businesses and do really, really well. and so it's, it's, it's been an interesting evolution for me in real estate over the last.

Yeah, so let's talk about that industrial property market just for a little bit, right? And I know every situation around the world is different as to how their markets progress or what's going on. But I think there might be an underlying tone based on your generation that you might be part of as to what your view of property ownership might be, I guess. So as you are maybe seeing some younger individuals, some of these younger business owners,

What's their view towards owning the property versus leasing property?

Yeah, you know, in general, I would say it's a mix. There's, there's, you know, some people, it depends. mean, there's, I think the younger generation genuinely sees and believes the opportunity within real estate as a

Or is it just a mix?

tool to build wealth, you know, sort of alongside or outside of their business. And so there's opportunities for younger folks that I think if they incorporate owning real estate.

as an accretive way to build wealth within their life along with their business. There's some great opportunities there where they can find a building that's in a high demand area. Maybe it's multi-tenant, so maybe they run their business out of half of it or a third of it and then rent out the other space. In the residential world, they call it house hacking.

you buy a house or a multi-unit building and then you live in one unit or live in one bedroom and rent the rest out to your buddies and now you're living essentially rent free and building wealth as the properties appreciate and value.

And then, and you can do the same thing in your business. So there's people that are, you know, that see that opportunity and really want to run after that. And that's something that we can help people with identifying the right opportunity, you know, and, and closing on that and then finding tenants and, that whole thing. then on the other end, I have a lot of, yeah, I have older business owners that they own.

Careful, know your audience. I'm older, careful.

I shouldn't say, don't, I I don't, I hear you. I don't mean anything negative by that, but I have, you know, there's business owners that are in generations such as baby boomers and they will, and they're starting to kind of see a light bulb too, where if they're in the manufacturing business and particularly if they're thinking about

selling their business at some point and doing some legacy planning. And they might have bought the building a long time ago, they own it free and clear, and they're looking for ways to sort of position their business as a sellable asset. And a lot of times what they'll do is they'll sell the building to a group like us and then lease it back from us for 10 to 15 years or even less. Sometimes it's a five year.

lease with some options to extend. And that sort of decouples the real estate from their business. They're able to then inject cash back into their business or take some cash off the table, diversify with that, and then look at positioning.

all the things they should have been doing for the last 15 years to make the business sellable that they didn't think they had the cash for. Sort of like the reverse mortgage approach of life.

Yes, yes, there's a lot of that. So there's a lot of different ways and really what we try to do is meet people where they're at and understand their goals and what they're looking to do. And I think the generational piece really makes a big difference because you've got to think about it from our standpoint, okay, how can we best help this person as a client, as an investor, as a potential tenant or partner in some way? it's much different if they're 30 versus if they're

65.

Right. Yeah. Those runways make a difference as to where they're at in their stage of life and different things. So that is critical. So how are you trying to create? How do you go about painting that picture to those individuals? Right. Whether that that older person with that business, that manufacturing building might want to be creating legacy versus just want to get cash out so I can retire. How do you approach? How do you approach?

Yeah.

that type of scenario or or do you bring in other experts with you to talk about legacy planning and or do you because many many of the business owners I talked to they don't have that financial advisor that's really they have it on the personal side but they don't have it from the hey I got all this other stuff over here perspective how do you make sure all those parties are are working together so that we can minimize taxes or create the best bang for the buck etc

Yeah, exactly. So we work with a pretty extensive network of different financial advisors and wealth management folks and estate planning attorneys and and then just even even on the advisory side, whether that's, you know,

If they're looking to sell a business, you know, someone on the and A side of things or a broker that understands a lot of these things. And it's kind of just taking a holistic picture of what is, what is your goal? What are you trying to do? Just get cash out and retire. but, but a lot of times, these business owners are, especially if they've owned their, their building for a long time, you know, companies are starting to move to think I'm, I'm in the business of making widgets.

Mm-hmm.

I'm not in the business of owning real estate. So how can I use the real estate that I have and create the most tax efficient plan to get some chips off the table as well as not take a huge tax hit? And so there's a lot of different factors to take a look at. And it starts with the approach to your question here is a simple introductory and discovery call and meeting to understand what are their...

What are their overall goals and how can real estate help them advance their goals? Cause it's a very powerful tool.

in the tool belt and I never tell people like, you know, I'm obsessed with real estate and I think about it, I eat, sleep and breathe it. But I tell people you don't have to do that, right? But I tell people that the way real estate is typically both on the personal side and on the business side is a lot of times one of the biggest expenses in our lives as a business owner or as just a person. And so the more that you can edge it.

Tell me about it. got a puddle of water in my backyard that was not fun to build it when we built it.

I hear you. you know, it's, it's, it's, you know, helping people get educated on how they can use real estate to their advantage and make the smartest choices possible, whether it's for their business or, you know, within their personal financial situation and how that can all mesh together to create opportunities. So for example, we have one business owner that he's, he owns a warehousing, a warehousing and distribution company. And he's been

Fantastic. We had been working with him. I think this started two and a half or three years ago or so. So it's been a while now, but he was looking to sell his business, take the proceeds and then build a new facility that would be even better for his approach.

And then he would have other units in that building that he could rent out to other tenants as well and help him with his mortgage payments. So he sold his building to us, leased it back from us. And, you know, this all started with a comprehensive discovery meeting where we kind of understood what he's looking to do. And this is a bit nuanced because he's not necessarily looking to retire. He's still running a great business. And he ended up he put his

his new build on hold, we actually might partner together in the future on that. But for now, he's leasing his building back to us. He got a bunch of cash for the building that he owned. He invested a portion into our real estate fund because he believes in the thesis behind the fund and what we're buying. And he believes in the, you know, the...

blue collar work and industrial real estate as being sort of the backbone of the American economy and particularly in Wisconsin and the economics.

Right. And investing and just so everybody's kind of aware here at the time of this recording, we're going through the tariff on off bullshit that's been going on, whether it's creating the uncertainty, whether it's good or bad is a political conversation, but it's creating a lot of uncertainty in the market. So, him taking that, those dollars investing into the real estate fund was probably a factor. If this was relatively recent, opportunity, because that's a, it's a safer, safer bet. Cause real estate is not going to

For sure, for sure. I don't see a 2008 scenario happening. And to your point, the tariffs on and off thing has been wild. know, nobody has a crystal ball. But I think, you know, if you take a step back from the tariffs and everything that's going on with that, just look at, do I believe that, you know, America is positioned quite well within...

manufacturing, a big on-shoring, reshoring, nearshoring boom to bring manufacturing and distribution back as close to their end consumer as possible. And the US economy is the biggest consumer in the world. I think COVID had a big impact on that when a lot of supply chains got disrupted.

So where we are in Wisconsin, centrally located within the middle of the country, it's a lower cost of labor, lower cost of living place, as opposed to putting a facility in somewhere like Phoenix or Southern California or something. And so there's a lot of positives and benefits to that. I think wherever this goes with the tariffs,

We believe that investing in the infrastructure that supports American manufacturing and warehousing and distribution is going to be good for the long haul. But who knows how that's all going to play out with the tariffs.

Right. so, so to because every deal is nuanced, right? It's it's like, but yet there's a process. There's a plan. There's a very every deal has its own things, but there's ultimately somebody has an idea. They want to buy it. How do get to the end? They transact cash and away we go with all that shit that happens in between. can make a deal go smoothly or poorly. As there are a lot of older industrial parks that are floating around and different things, and you might have a younger

I might have some of our listeners might be younger entrepreneurs that might be in their, you know, early Gen Z mid Gen Z or younger millennial. What types of things if they're going to go into looking at a property or investing in buying that getting out their garage to make that first step? What are some of the key things that you've seen that they just need to avoid and and and not get enamored with?

going forward with a deal because it's just a you're just going to be flushing money down the drain because it's just going to be a shit show. Even though they're excited. It's great. Oh, I can do it. I can afford it. But it's you know, it's just a bad fucking deal for him. You know, you've seen this happen. I got to believe you've seen things like this happen. And and first for our younger, we don't want you to go in a situation where all of a sudden you're in debt up to your eyeballs over a bad situation because you were just duped by not

Yeah.

yeah.

Not like you, Jeff, because you're, but there are bad brokers are bad deals out there where people are just trying to chase the situation. What are some of the things they need to be aware of to avoid?

For sure. mean, I think, you know, to your point, there's a lot of bad in any profession, right? There's a lot of people that, and particularly when you're in a sales role, you know, as a broker, sometimes you get told what you want to hear. And then you believe that, I think it's important for someone.

to understand the incentives and make sure that the incentives are aligned with their goals and understand who's incentivized by what when they're making a big decision like this. Because whether you're buying a house or you're buying a building for your business or you're buying just a rental property and you want to rent that out and be a landlord, it's a major consideration. just like you said, leverage is a real thing. If you use it wisely, it can be a very, very good

tool in the tool belt to build wealth, but it also can backfire and you can be upside down. And that's not a good scenario. done a lot of different deals, probably over 30 or so between residential deals and commercial deals and a lot of different types of asset classes. The main thing that I look for, and it sounds cliche, but the

The thing that I've had deals go sideways and we've never lost an investor dime, we've had deals that haven't worked out the way that we thought they were going to. And then we've had deals that have been home runs. I think the main thing comes back to location, location, And you can get really granular with statistics. It also can just be kind of a feel thing. if you look at population,

Okay.

demographics and population migration statistics, are people, and not just like, are people moving to Milwaukee because it's relatively flat, but are they moving to that specific area like Sussex or something booming out there, right? You know, we call it the...

Running out of land.

Yeah, yeah, we call it the path of progress in real estate. So try to figure out where people are moving, where commerce is happening, where businesses are moving into. And if you're in that path of progress, even if you don't, you know, if if you don't get the best deal on it or whatever.

you can still do really well because you're going to get some market appreciation that way. The other thing I would say is, you know, be conservative with that, even if you can.

afford to go buy a building and a bank will give you a loan with 80 % leverage, that's probably not the right move. think we're in the real estate investment business. We try to stay right around 65 or a little bit under 65 % loan to value. But if you're buying it on your own, not with a

you know, not part of a group that is a very sophisticated real estate management company. You know, you might want to err on the side of caution with that and stick to a little bit lower leverage. And then the other so first things location, second thing is debt, you know, making sure that you get the right financing in place. And then the third thing I would say is, you know, usability of the building, right? Like you've got to like

think about.

we can fix that. We can take that wall down. We can move that. We can build this out. We can do all those things. It'll be great. No big deal. You still got a business to run and you're not going to pay somebody to do it. So it'll be a shit show forever.

Yeah, it

Exactly. I would tell people that, you know, projects like that always come in. It's very hard to have them come in, you know, on time and under budget, right? It's typically 20 to 30 or even way more percent, 20 to 30 percent more than what you think it's going to cost. It's going to take longer than what you think. So, you know, some buildings are set up in a way where the floor plan and the overall layout of the building is

very conducive to being flexible. We call it flex industrial a lot of times. if you're thinking about buying something and it's a first kind of real estate purchase, the more flexible, the better, the more tenants that you're going to get that would want to use that space, the more that just those spaces are in very high demand. And so I would look at those.

And they usually always are right because because they do create that flexibility along the way and and usually they're. Square or rectangular. They don't have four additions put onto them. They don't have the here's 1000 square feet over here and then we added this on over there and then we added this on over there and. We never upgraded the HVAC system so we've all we just got the same furnace and we just it's cold over there and it's warm over here and.

And sometimes the HVAC and the power and all the different, the layout of the building makes so much sense because we've got a building right now where we would like to be able to put up some walls. And again, we're pretty advanced in this area, but.

it.

We want to put up some walls and dock doors and kind of create more of a, you know, build out more units for industrial users. But the power is such that it's in a, it would, it would cost three or $400,000 just to move that to be able to set this up. And that, that, that creates a problem for us. So it's yeah.

You think? You think $400,000 extra cost creates a problem? That's weird to me.

on top of what it would cost to build it out and really make those spaces usable. the layout of the building is crucial, the location's crucial, and then just figuring out the best way that you're gonna finance that so that it's conservative, that you're able to weather some storms. And I think those three together are...

And then you work with a broker that you trust and that you feel like has your interests in mind. They're not just necessarily trying to get the next commission check. They're really trying to advise you on sound negotiations and making a sound offer. And then if you're in the business of running your business, whether that's making widgets or whatever that might be, you can always work with a property management company that can help you for other tenants.

as well and all the leasing, the maintenance, all of that stuff.

Yeah, I just had a client. He was wanting to move. His father-in-law owned the building that they were in. He bought the business, didn't buy the building because they didn't want to be a landlord. He's at that point in time where, Hey, you know, I don't want to be a landlord. If we sell this business or we relocate or whatever happens, I don't want this hanging around my neck. I'm like, perfect. Makes sense to me. which is great.

Mm-hmm.

So Steve's not here. So this is his segment. This is one thing that he just came up with. We decided we're to do this segment is called bite your tongue. So the question is, dude, well, that should be good. Then we should have a great story here. Is there a story, personal, professional point in time where probably should have not done something or should not said something that you did and

I have a hard time doing that by the way.

Love it.

kind of what happened as a result of it or what you learn.

boy, I've had a lot of times where I should have bit my tongue. It both...

This goes into relationship advice too, potentially. We don't know.

Yes, for sure. Both personally and professionally. You know, I'm trying to think of a specific example that would be good for your listeners, but it might come to me here. I would say generally what I've learned is if you and this goes for emails too, but even you know, if you're thinking of saying something contentious, it's I've learned that it's best to sleep on it. So rather than

know, queuing up that email and firing it off and you know, there's going to be a lot of heavy emotions around that or just saying something, you know, and not biting your tongue right away. I think it's always better to, you know, consider it for a little bit longer. So, I mean, it's happened in business numerous times where, and sometimes it's just saying something and you put your foot in your mouth and it's not even that, that...

terrible, but maybe you didn't want to share that information because that changes certain things. You don't want to, you don't want to. I always try to tell myself because I like to talk a lot. I have to remind myself two ears, one mouth. I should be listening at least double as much as I'm talking. And if I'm going to say something that might be pretty out of pocket or as the kids would say, or

Yeah.

I don't know what the kids say, I don't what that is anymore.

Yeah, like I said, we've got employees that are 22, 23, and they've got some terms that I learn every day. I'm 35, so I'll be 36 when this thing airs. I'm still very young, but I'm not as with someone that would be 15 years younger.

trust me I get when I when I go and I was doing all my robotic stuff with that at the Hamilton High School and like what are you guys talking about? Way up like what? Okay. Call it urban dictionary looking at like really? Come on. Why can't we just go back to the old terms because it was just easier. Everybody knew what it was. Now we gotta now we gotta make up new terms for things that we already knew what it was. Okay, whatever.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah, exactly. Talk to me about the robotics thing that you're doing. Is there something that I have wanted to bring up regarding automation and innovation within real estate?

so first robotics organization. It's a high school program, FRC, first robotics. the guy that invented the segue, put that program together for high schools to, compete in a, new product launch basically every year, new game, new thing. And, when I was mentoring that 10 years, we, did our own manufacturing, our own design work, our own activities and our mentors taught students all, all aspects. had a small business inside of there and we had a

budget that ran anywhere between 60 to $120,000 a year for our robots and travel and different things. And, it's a great program. And for those that are out trying to hire folks, anybody that had anybody, any kid that has first robotics from their high school on their resume, you should interview a hundred percent every time all the time. It's like having Eagle Scouts, Girl Scouts that have gone through that far, they make it all the way to that teenage years. You need to go interview those folks cause they have dedication. have desire.

may not have the skill you're looking for for the specific thing, but they will know the things that they will get all the other things around at the soft skill things that are there.

Yeah, no, and that brings up a good point. I want to learn more about that as well. as a lot of the business owners that I've worked with that either, you know, sold their building to us and then, you know, they talk with me about some of the, I try to understand what challenges they have and what they're looking to accomplish and attracting and retaining younger talent is always in those conversations. You think, well, how can real estate

help that. And it's not necessarily, you know, directly real estate related, but there's a lot of things that you can do within robotics.

I will put put put lights up in your parking lot would be the first thing to do. Make the entrance where people know where to come in and feel safe would be the second thing to do would be great. Hey, can we make it feel safe and comfortable that I'm not going to know where I'm going and it's not like I'm some alley somewhere. Can we do that? Maybe put an address on the building so I know that I'm getting into the right place and assign. For the interview.

Yes, exactly.

New, well lit, nice signage goes a really long way. we, know, I definitely agree with that, you know, any looking at ways to incorporate robotics and innovation and automation into your business, I think is a great way to, once you get beyond the new sign, the new lighting, maybe some, a fresh coat of white paint and making everything look clean, you know,

Right.

Then you can look at things like automating different business processes and different sort of systems with robotics. And I think that the younger generations coming up are really more interested in working with those types of innovative technologies instead of doing as much manual, repetitive work. And it increases precision too.

Yep. So so Jeff, people want to get a hold of you talk more about investing or property or being part of the solution along the way or just young folks that want to learn more about real estate. How do people find you?

Best way to find me is on LinkedIn. I'm pretty active there. So my name is Jeff with a G, G-E-O-F-F, last name's S-T-U-H-R. I don't know if there's anyone else with that name. It's kind of a unique one. So I'm active on LinkedIn. I talk about all things.

real estate related, particularly commercial real estate related for, you know, the small business owners. I talk about, you know, I talk about it from the perspective of helping them find space or figure out what to do with their real estate needs. I also talk about it from the investor's perspective on how they can diversify, into alternative assets that cashflow and have upside potential and appreciation, to build wealth. So I talk a lot about that, but we have a new, we have our website is

Asset Capital.com. Our sister company is Smart Asset Realty.com. They're kind of integrated together. We're building a new website for Smart Asset Capital, which should be live by the time this airs. Yes, exactly. Everything takes... Yeah.

Fingers crossed. It shouldn't take very long. Shouldn't be three times over budget and four months late. Shouldn't be a problem. No big deal.

It happens every time. So we'll see. But the best way to find me is LinkedIn. I'm happy to meet with people and if I can help out or be a sounding board or step in and help them with real estate related services for their business or investment opportunities, more than happy to have a conversation and figure out what we can do to help out.

Thank you so much for being here, Steve. Unfortunately, you missed a great conversation, but we still had one without you anyhow, so it's all good, Have a great weekend, Jeff. Thank you so much. All right. Thank you.

Thank you, Brad. Absolutely. Appreciate you.