This week, we review a classic big band arrangement of “On the Sunny Side of the Street,” highlighting the delayed entrance of the vocal group and other elements that make it a classic 1940s big band tune. This song has a vintage sound, and we jump into both the recording and playback technology that influenced that era of music.

In the Mailbag segment, we discuss the relationship between an artist and social media, reinforcing that it’s now a core component of one’s marketing.

Listen to the song

• YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P_8gXFgBkNY
• Spotify - https://open.spotify.com/track/5qGUC3y9NXTpA6n5k3W5Fm?si=b4c10179b4454fe7
• Apple Music - https://music.apple.com/us/song/on-the-sunny-side-of-the-street-from-is-everybody-happy/304824058
• Amazon - https://music.amazon.com/albums/B0G2BQ5JBV?marketplaceId=ATVPDKIKX0DER&musicTerritory=US&ref=dm_sh_KBQ1NdkP5cnECpS0K5QV7w1gT&trackAsin=B0G2BKFNQH

Other links

• The Manhattan Transfer’s version of “On the Sunny Side of the Street”
• Playlist of the songs we’ve reviewed
• YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL5bn23baJ4xQ1t0TMqukELY5W95HwuMoT
• Spotify - https://open.spotify.com/playlist/7gCOF5M0zYS1fBvXgT5ccI?si=7F3yVdEDRRWa_gAArK3AYg
• Apple Music - https://music.apple.com/us/playlist/songs-reviewed-on-the-musicians-loupe/pl.u-V9D7maah06JNo
• Amazon Music - https://music.amazon.com/user-playlists/3b47be4937b7490982f4a872db32ec8dsune?ref=dm_sh_AEFZY8KhvSsz1TGoRmasg6zHZ

About us

Trist Curless is a Los Angeles-based vocalist, educator, and sound engineer. As a performer, Trist has toured worldwide as a co-founder of the pop-jazz vocal group m-pact and a 10 year member of the Grammy-award winning The Manhattan Transfer. In addition to these two vocal powerhouse groups, he’s also performed with Take 6, Bobby McFerrin, New York Voices, Vox Audio, Naturally 7, and The Swingle Singers. His latest venture, The LHR Project, is a new vocal group collective celebrating legendary jazz vocal group Lambert, Hendricks, and Ross.

As an audio engineer, Trist has toured nationally with several vocal groups and bands in a large variety of venues, working for Grammy award winners Pentatonix and Take 6, as well as prominent a cappella vocal groups Straight No Chaser, VoicePlay, and Accent.

Elaine Chao, M.Ed is a San Francisco Bay Area-based vocalist, multi-instrumentalist, vocal percussionist, and songwriter whose career spans a cappella, contemporary worship, and classical music. She has leveraged her training in classical and choral music over the course of her contemporary performance, including in orchestras for musical theatre and in sacred spaces. In addition to music, she also is a martial artist and published author. She currently leads a product management team at a major software company dedicated to creative expression. All statements in this podcast are her own and do not reflect the opinions of her employer.

Elaine: Hey, Trist!

Elaine: What do we have this week?

Trist: Oh, we have a classic big band era tune with

Elaine: Mm.

Trist: a vocal group.

Trist: You know, I love that.

Elaine: you

Trist: Um,

Elaine: know I love big band.

Trist: yeah.

Trist: So this one is cool because it's

Trist: back in the style that they used

Trist: to do like this, a lot of times

Trist: the lead vocal or the group

Trist: wouldn't even come in for like

Trist: two minutes.

Elaine: Okay.

Trist: And that is the case today.

Trist: We have "On the Sunny Side of

Trist: the Street," Tommy Dorsey and

Trist: the Sentimentalists.

Elaine: Oh, I've never heard of this one before, so I'm really looking

Elaine: forward to listening to it.

Elaine: All right, so before we get into this, can you remind our

Elaine: listeners how we should be listening to things as a part of

Elaine: the Musician's Loupe community?

Trist: Well, we are always thrilled to have you join us.

Trist: And we also encourage just the

Trist: highest quality listening you

Trist: can.

Trist: In our crazy lives, we don't always stop and take the time to

Trist: listen to the best thing available, although these days,

Trist: man, everything sounds really good compared to what there was

Trist: back in the day.

Trist: Nay, I digress.

Trist: So improve your listening situation if you can.

Trist: Although today's golden oldie

Trist: might not necessarily sound all

Trist: that much better in any

Trist: different setting.

Trist: So listen as you will.

Trist: But do know that there is a vocal group on this.

Trist: If you start listening and you

Trist: listen to the whole song

Trist: through, and there's no vocal

Trist: group yet, you just have to

Trist: wait.

Trist: Be patient.

Trist: It's not like now where the best

Trist: part has to come within like a

Trist: minute of the song or 30s or

Trist: something crazy.

Elaine: All right.

Elaine: So we are going to take a brief pause.

Elaine: We'll leave all of the links in

Elaine: the show notes and we will be

Elaine: right back.

Elaine: Wow. That

Trist: Wow.

Elaine: was

Trist: That was

Elaine: definitely

Trist: a very

Elaine: very classic.

Trist: big

Elaine: Big band.

Trist: thing.

Trist: Yeah, it's about as signature as you can get.

Trist: Just the mutes on the horns and everything.

Trist: It could be any stereotypical drop it into a movie scene that

Trist: needs that kind of era music, and you could use this track.

Trist: Well, it probably has been used many, many times.

Trist: As a matter of fact, I wasn't going to get to it yet, but the

Trist: Manhattan Transfer rerecorded it, and it was in the movie "A

Trist: League of Their Own" with,

Elaine: Ooh.

Trist: you know, Tom Hanks and Madonna, the women's baseball movie.

Trist: So they had two songs in there.

Trist: One was a little more prominent.

Trist: But yeah, they basically just

Trist: did a redo of that exact

Trist: version.

Trist: They liked it so much.

Trist: They copied that one and did it for Penny Marshall's "A League

Trist: of Their Own" movie.

Elaine: What an amazing little tidbit there and a great connection to

Elaine: your past for sure.

Trist: Yep. I loved that one.

Trist: When we were kind of coming down the home stretch doing the final

Trist: tour with a big band, I was strongly pulling to have that

Trist: one be in the repertoire, but there was just so much music to

Trist: try to get in.

Trist: And so the concert wasn't three hours.

Trist: We couldn't do everything, but I tried.

Trist: I love that one.

Elaine: Okay, so tell me a little bit

Elaine: more about why you chose this

Elaine: song.

Trist: Well, while again, like we said, it's very indicative of this

Trist: era, this style, the pacing, the band playing the entire form

Trist: first and then the vocal group coming in rather than focusing

Trist: on a vocal group being the feature right out front and

Trist: doing lots of iterations of it.

Trist: So that's very typical.

Trist: But the voice, they just sound so good.

Trist: Of all of the things from this era, it's just one of the most

Trist: swinging, just perfect example of this thing for me.

Trist: There's lots of great ones, but this one always stands out.

Trist: The first time I heard this version of it, I was like, whoa,

Trist: that's so good.

Trist: And the little story behind the

Trist: Sentimentalists is that Tommy

Trist: Dorsey had hired the Clark

Trist: Sisters.

Trist: So this was a vocal group from, I believe, North Dakota

Trist: somewhere big, like where I'm from in Wyoming.

Trist: (See, all the good jazz singers

Trist: come from there right in the

Trist: middle of nowhere.) So they had

Trist: their group and they auditioned

Trist: for him.

Trist: And he had learned from a prior issue with the Pied Pipers,

Trist: another big band era vocal group, very much a predecessor

Trist: to what the Transfer did.

Trist: Manhattan Transfer very much copied and loved the style and

Trist: the sound of the Pied Pipers.

Trist: Well, the Pied Pipers were the vocal group for Tommy Dorsey.

Trist: Tommy Dorsey fired one of them from, I think something like on

Trist: tour, told him the wrong direction to get on the train

Trist: and made him mad and fired him.

Trist: And so the rest of the group, in solidarity, also quit.

Trist: Well, they were called the Pied Pipers and that was their name.

Trist: He didn't own it.

Trist: So they could continue on and be the Pied Pipers and be amazing

Trist: and be stars.

Trist: And he couldn't do anything about it.

Trist: So he thought, I won't do this again.

Trist: Instead of letting them be the

Trist: Clark Sisters, he named them the

Trist: Sentimentalists.

Trist: And then when they finally left, because of course, they weren't

Trist: getting paid what they thought they should be paid.

Trist: Tale as old as time, right?

Trist: They couldn't even publicly say,

Trist: well, you know, we were the

Trist: Sentimentalists.

Trist: So come to our concert because you've heard us all these times

Trist: with Tommy Dorsey.

Trist: So they had their own name back.

Trist: But that name wasn't as popular as the Sentimentalists.

Trist: Anyway, I find that fascinating

Trist: that all those years ago, this

Trist: kind of thing was was still an

Trist: issue.

Elaine: And that is interesting to think

Elaine: about from, both from the

Elaine: business perspective – and I

Elaine: understand why Tommy Dorsey did

Elaine: that – but going back to

Elaine: something that you said earlier,

Elaine: when you're talking about the

Elaine: vocals, like first of all, I

Elaine: heard all women's voices,

Elaine: definitely.

Elaine: Certainly when I was listening

Elaine: to the arrangement, I was

Elaine: hearing a lot of complexity in

Elaine: there.

Elaine: I was hearing multiple voices, and then occasionally I would

Elaine: hear them go down to unison, which was also gorgeous.

Elaine: And the thought of using unison as a punctuation in some way,

Elaine: which is interesting to think about because we do that now.

Elaine: Because definitely that is

Trist: That is

Elaine: something

Trist: something

Elaine: that we

Trist: that

Elaine: do

Trist: we do.

Elaine: as arrangers nowadays.

Elaine: We continue to use octaves as a way of punctuation and also

Elaine: unison as a manner of punctuation as well.

Elaine: And the other thing that

Elaine: occurred to me as you were

Elaine: sharing was just the phrase

Elaine: North Dakota.

Elaine: And part of it was that I

Elaine: recently watched "Singing in the

Elaine: Rain."

Elaine: In the 1930s, 1940s, the

Elaine: Mid-Atlantic accent was the

Elaine: primary accent in all of

Elaine: broadcast.

Elaine: And so hearing this very

Elaine: Mid-Atlantic tonality to their

Elaine: voices was very nostalgic for me

Elaine: because nowadays we have a very,

Elaine: I'd say, a neutral American

Elaine: accent, which is equivalent, I

Elaine: think, to the Californian accent

Elaine: because of the influence of

Elaine: Hollywood.

Elaine: So I think that

Trist: I think

Elaine: there

Trist: that

Elaine: was

Trist: there

Elaine: something

Trist: was something

Elaine: that was

Trist: that

Elaine: incredibly

Trist: was missing.

Elaine: nostalgic for me because the

Elaine: Mid-Atlantic accent just harkens

Elaine: to a specific era of

Elaine: musicianship, of radio, of

Elaine: broadcast and all of that, I

Elaine: think, comes out in that North

Elaine: Dakota accent.

Trist: The group of singers was just amazing.

Trist: A little more complex, four-part chords and those voicings.

Trist: Again, same with the Pied Pipers.

Trist: Very much the style that you

Trist: ended up hearing from the

Trist: Manhattan Transfer.

Trist: And these four sisters,

Trist: obviously, that's the other

Trist: thing is when they're related,

Trist: the groups that are brothers or

Trist: sisters always have some kind of

Trist: magic.

Trist: Over the years, there's been a lot of those, but the Clark

Trist: sisters were no different.

Trist: And yeah, you're right, their

Trist: ability to very easily segueway

Trist: between the harmony parts and

Trist: then going into octaves or

Trist: unisons, being able to do that

Trist: easily and adeptly was, one of

Trist: their features that was really

Trist: great.

Elaine: So one of the things that I

Elaine: would like to talk about apart

Elaine: from their voices is the

Elaine: orchestra itself.

Elaine: Very classic big band.

Elaine: And as I think about big band, you were

Trist: You

Elaine: talking

Trist: were

Elaine: about

Trist: talking

Elaine: mutes.

Trist: about the

Elaine: I

Trist: officer?

Elaine: certainly heard like the Harmon mutes, the cupping,

Trist: Mhm.

Elaine: the type of really classic jazz big band functionality.

Elaine: But I also was hearing a lot of strings in there.

Elaine: And so there were strings, there

Elaine: was brass, there was a kit drum,

Elaine: and I really didn't hear

Elaine: anything else.

Elaine: Was there anything else that you heard in there that really stuck

Elaine: out to you from a big band perspective, or was

Trist: Um,

Elaine: that it?

Trist: no, that's pretty typical,

Trist: especially of a recording,

Trist: because a lot of times they're

Trist: on radio shows back then, and

Trist: there will always be a kind of a

Trist: full string section as well as

Trist: horns.

Trist: Um, and, um, I know you said kit

Trist: drum, but it sounds like you

Trist: just say kick drum whenever you

Trist: say that.

Trist: So there was a drum kit

Elaine: That's

Trist: that

Elaine: right.

Trist: includes a kick drum.

Trist: And, kind of a full radio

Trist: orchestra, as it were, often on

Trist: these things.

Trist: Yeah, strings are really kind of in the back.

Trist: Matter of fact, only now when

Trist: you mention them do I even

Trist: intellectualize that they were

Trist: even there.

Trist: They're the synth pad of today.

Trist: So in current music production, a lot of times what replaces

Trist: just some strings in the back playing long whole notes, over

Trist: on a synthesizer, you'll have a patch that's strings or

Trist: something that's really kind of ethereal and behind even really

Trist: rhythmic, aggressive pop songs.

Trist: You'll have these big pads of just whole note chords that are

Trist: played on keyboards.

Trist: So the predecessor to that would be having a full string

Trist: orchestra, even though you're not hearing necessarily string

Trist: parts jump right out at you and taking the focus, they help fill

Trist: the sound, make the recordings just sound fuller and bigger.

Elaine: I love that you were saying that this was radio ready, because I

Elaine: went down the rabbit hole of looking at all of the radio

Elaine: technology during this time.

Elaine: And one of the things that I was thinking about was the lack of

Elaine: dynamic range that radio had during this era.

Elaine: And we think about the

Elaine: difference between AM radio and

Elaine: FM radio.

Elaine: I don't know if you have listened to music on AM radio

Elaine: recently, but it definitely sounds very much like this in

Elaine: terms of the quality of music that you find, just like the

Elaine: lack of highs, the lack of lows.

Elaine: It really is great for voices and for talk radio, which is why

Elaine: so much of it is on AM radio.

Elaine: I'd love to hear like what some of your thoughts about the

Elaine: technology and how it influenced how people perceive music,

Elaine: especially over the radio.

Elaine: It was like the equivalent of television back then.

Elaine: Right?

Trist: HM. Interesting.

Trist: I haven't really thought about that.

Trist: The people that are there when it's being recorded, they're

Trist: hearing this full spectrum.

Trist: But I think because of the

Trist: transmission and recording

Trist: technology only captured so much

Trist: that then when the AM radio was

Trist: the way to transmit it, you

Trist: weren't losing anything because

Trist: the recording quality wasn't as

Trist: good anyway.

Trist: So that kind of matched until

Trist: eventually when FM radio came

Trist: around and this frequency

Trist: spectrum was greater, which I do

Trist: not claim to really know

Trist: anything about or exactly when

Trist: that happened.

Trist: But it would be able to accommodate more audio quality

Trist: as it progressed as well.

Trist: I think all those things feed each other.

Trist: So yeah, if it sounds like it's

Trist: from an AM radio, it's because

Trist: they have a lot of the same

Trist: qualities.

Trist: The recording technology then and AM radios capabilities are

Trist: likely very similar.

Trist: Hopefully someone who knows more about that will chime in and let

Trist: us know the differences and why they're the same and different.

Trist: That would

Elaine: Well,

Trist: be great.

Elaine: one of the things that I was thinking about as I was

Elaine: listening to it was not only the lack of dynamic range, but also

Elaine: it sounded a little bit tinny to me as I was listening to it on

Elaine: my studio speakers, and then I was thinking about how radio was

Elaine: played back in the 20s, 30s, 40s, and a lot of the older

Elaine: radios that I've seen have actually been wooden cabs.

Elaine: So they're built inside of basically wooden speakers.

Elaine: And I go back to when I was

Elaine: considering, some of the PAs

Elaine: that I was using 15, 20 years

Elaine: ago, 25 years ago at this point

Elaine: in time.

Elaine: And just thinking, what's the

Elaine: difference between a plastic cab

Elaine: when I was using the Mackies or

Elaine: the JBL's as opposed to the

Elaine: Yamaha's, which were a wooden

Elaine: cab and they sounded a lot

Elaine: warmer.

Elaine: And so thinking about how the

Elaine: Yamaha wedges sounded with those

Elaine: wooden cabs.

Elaine: And the difference with that and

Elaine: the plastic cabs that I had on

Elaine: the Mackies, I mean it was

Elaine: definitely a different dynamic

Elaine: range.

Elaine: It was a different warmth that came out of those wedges.

Elaine: And so I'm thinking about listening to this in a speaker

Elaine: that might actually just give warmth because of the way that

Elaine: it's built and the way that people are listening to it

Elaine: probably had a lot more warmth in it, because a lot of those

Elaine: radios were built out of wood.

Trist: Yeah. And then even in playback,

Trist: these originally probably would

Trist: have been on a 78, on a

Trist: phonograph.

Trist: And the frequency response of that was also very limited.

Trist: So that all contributes to it.

Elaine: I guess it goes back to how technology influences music,

Elaine: whether it's recording technology or in this case,

Elaine: playback technology and how we perceive it today.

Elaine: Because now our playback

Elaine: technology is so high fidelity

Elaine: right now, whether it's our

Elaine: AirPods or our studio speakers

Elaine: or even our car speakers are

Elaine: better than what people had back

Elaine: in the 1940s, or at least

Elaine: different.

Elaine: And so as we listen to music in

Elaine: these different environments, we

Elaine: know nowadays that it just

Elaine: sounds different.

Elaine: And so if we put ourselves in

Elaine: the shoes of people from a

Elaine: different era with a different

Elaine: set of technology, how would we

Elaine: be listening to the music back

Elaine: then?

Elaine: I think that's just a mental exercise I was going through.

Trist: I guess again, something I haven't really thought about,

Trist: but if you heard this song on the radio and this is the sound

Trist: that you heard.

Trist: But then you had the opportunity to go hear a band and a group

Trist: like this live and in concert, what a startling difference even

Trist: if the sound reinforcement in the room might be also older.

Trist: A lot of times it's probably just accentuating some of the

Trist: voices because you would hear the band just acoustically in a

Trist: room, but just being able to hear the full spectrum of sound

Trist: must have been magnificent.

Trist: I'd never even really thought about this.

Trist: If you're at home and you hear

Trist: this on the radio and then, hey,

Trist: next week, Tommy Dorsey is going

Trist: to be in the auditorium downtown

Trist: and you go down and listen to

Trist: it.

Trist: I guess if you've had those experiences before, you know

Trist: it's going to be that different.

Trist: But boy, the difference in the spectrum of sound and quality

Trist: that you would hear when you hear it live.

Trist: To some degree, it's always quote unquote better to go

Trist: experience it live.

Trist: But I think back then, it's even a greater difference.

Trist: That's really interesting to think about.

Trist: I had not thought about that, Elaine, thank you for that.

Elaine: The deep thoughts that we have late at night, right?

Trist: Mhm.

Elaine: All right.

Elaine: So anything else to say about the song?

Trist: I mean, that's it.

Trist: I just love it.

Trist: Listen to it.

Trist: We'll probably link the Manhattan Transfer version.

Trist: Or the next time you're flipping

Trist: through and some cable channel's

Trist: playing "A League of Their Own"

Trist: and you catch it, maybe listen

Trist: and see if it's on in the

Trist: background somewhere and see if

Trist: you hear the Manhattan Transfer

Trist: singing that one, or find the

Trist: soundtrack and listen to them as

Trist: well.

Trist: Yep.

Trist: It's just a good one.

Trist: Swinging.

Trist: The Clark Sisters.

Elaine: All right.

Elaine: So with that, let's move on to our next segment, which is.

Trist: The mailbag.

Trist: Ladies and gentlemen, the mailbag.

Elaine: That's right.

Elaine: The mailbag.

Elaine: And you can get a hold of us via

Elaine: email at themusiciansloupe at

Elaine: gmail dot com or via Instagram

Elaine: or Threads at the Musicians

Elaine: Loupe.

Elaine: That's L-O-U-P-E.

Trist: And that would be a great place

Trist: if you have some more

Trist: information about anything that

Trist: we've talked about, or maybe we

Trist: weren't as well informed as we

Trist: could be, and you could give us

Trist: a few more clues about some info

Trist: about this song or the group or

Trist: the bands or radio or music

Trist: technology.

Trist: We'd love to hear any of those things.

Trist: And that's where you can let us know.

Elaine: Okay, so this week's mailbag is from Threads.

Elaine: It's a conversation between

Elaine: Vanessa McGowan and

Elaine: dallimore_music from May of

Elaine: 2026.

Elaine: So Vanessa says, "I think

Elaine: musicians struggle so much with

Elaine: social media because real

Elaine: connection is at the heart of

Elaine: what we love about music, but no

Elaine: matter how hard we promote

Elaine: ourselves online, performative

Elaine: social media connection will

Elaine: only ever be a hollow facsimile

Elaine: of that."

Elaine: And dallimore_music responds, "This new era of content

Elaine: creation pressure on musicians is one of the worst things that

Elaine: has ever happened to the industry and goes against

Elaine: everything a stereotypical musician is about.

Elaine: Some artists are sticking to

Elaine: their guns and refusing to play

Elaine: the game, and I'm with them all

Elaine: the way."

Elaine: So I think that brings up this

Elaine: question, maybe this ever

Elaine: present question of the

Elaine: relationship that musicians have

Elaine: with marketing.

Elaine: And it sounds like these two

Elaine: artists are very frustrated with

Elaine: the way that social media is

Elaine: kind of even having to do

Elaine: marketing themselves.

Elaine: And I know previously we've

Elaine: talked about the importance of

Elaine: marketing and how people can and

Elaine: should engage in their own

Elaine: marketing.

Elaine: I'm kind of curious what your

Trist: Your

Elaine: response

Trist: response

Elaine: to

Trist: to.

Elaine: these two people are.

Trist: As we've covered many times

Trist: before, it's always "it

Trist: depends."

Trist: What kind of musician?

Trist: What are you talking about?

Trist: You and your friends that have

Trist: full time other jobs and you

Trist: just play once a month at a

Trist: coffee shop?

Trist: You're talking about a touring musician with the label?

Trist: There's such a vast difference in the way that musicians

Trist: perceive they need to interact on social media.

Trist: It's tough for me to necessarily comment depending on what level

Trist: the music is at, what kind of band, what kind of act, and it

Trist: depends on the act.

Trist: Some acts are looking to have as big an audience as possible and

Trist: make as much money as possible.

Trist: And some are just looking to get to play music now and again.

Trist: And so they achieve different things by using social media.

Trist: But as we've also said many times, it's always been the case

Trist: that you've needed to let people know about your music and you've

Trist: had to find ways to do it.

Trist: It's just now, there are different ways to do it, and it

Trist: falls to the musicians.

Trist: And even if on a label, there was someone that might be hired

Trist: or even an independent musician can hire a social media

Trist: specialist that helps them.

Trist: It's the way that we're doing things.

Trist: You can choose other ways to gain audience.

Trist: Maybe people just from word of mouth of being at the concerts.

Trist: I guess that's going to be a little slower.

Trist: But, even then, I suppose people that were at your concerts that

Trist: loved it, they'll go on social media and talk about you.

Trist: So in a way you're using it even if you're not directly using it.

Trist: So the refusing to play the game part.

Trist: I'm not sure what that is.

Elaine: I think that when I read these two posts, especially back to

Elaine: back, I definitely hear the frustration there because in an

Elaine: idealistic world, you shouldn't have to promote your music.

Elaine: You make something good, people should be able to listen to it.

Elaine: But I also think that there is an aspect of pragmatism and I

Elaine: am, if nothing, a pragmatist and thinking about, well, for a lot

Elaine: of music, there is a business aspect of it.

Elaine: If you're trying to get people to attend your shows, there is

Elaine: some form of marketing.

Elaine: Just like if you want people to

Elaine: consume your art, you have to

Elaine: let them know about it, whether

Elaine: it's like a visual media or a

Elaine: multimedia or some other kind of

Elaine: media.

Elaine: I think the other alternative, though, is to show up at

Elaine: festivals where other people promote you, and then you don't

Elaine: have to do any of it yourself.

Elaine: Although there is a lot of quid pro quo where they are expecting

Elaine: you to also promote things on behalf of the show itself.

Elaine: So I think that in some ways it is, What is your relationship

Elaine: with your fans and how do you maintain that relationship?

Elaine: Because it is a two way street.

Elaine: They come to see you, but you are also sharing with them

Elaine: things if they're unaware of what you are doing and when you

Elaine: are doing things, they're never going to see your shows.

Elaine: How are they going to find things out?

Elaine: And so we've talked about mailing lists, which again, is

Elaine: another way to keep in touch with your audience.

Elaine: It doesn't just have to be

Elaine: social media, but we think about

Elaine: acquisition funnels.

Elaine: We think about How do you partner with others?

Elaine: How do you tour with others and

Elaine: help others discover you and

Elaine: vice versa?

Elaine: Help your fans discover other music as well.

Elaine: And so I think even before

Elaine: social media, you and I were

Elaine: both making music before social

Elaine: media.

Elaine: I think this is something that whether it was we went out and

Elaine: we did flyers all over campus.

Elaine: Like I definitely

Trist: Yeah.

Elaine: remember doing that.

Elaine: That's all marketing.

Elaine: That's all work.

Elaine: And just because social media is

Elaine: a different form of work doesn't

Elaine: mean that you don't have to do

Elaine: it.

Trist: True story.

Trist: It's just a new way to do it, that's all.

Elaine: So I think that maybe if I were to rephrase this and I doubt

Elaine: that either Vanessa or Dollimore will listen to this podcast, but

Elaine: as I think about how we approach our music, certainly there is

Elaine: making music for the fun of it and for the joy of it and for

Elaine: our own self engagement and for the joy of making music either

Elaine: by ourselves, or with others.

Elaine: But then there's also the joy of sharing music.

Elaine: And I think that in order to share music at scale, you need

Elaine: to leverage some of these other resources that you might have.

Elaine: And then if you're thinking about making a living at it, and

Elaine: certainly I don't make a living at my music.

Elaine: I probably have more tools

Elaine: because I'm not trying to

Elaine: monetize.

Elaine: My rent gets paid by my day job.

Elaine: I think the phrase that comes to mind is beggars can't be

Elaine: choosers when it comes to, you live in this world.

Elaine: And what you were saying is this is just the way things are.

Elaine: We just need to do things this

Elaine: way because that's where the

Elaine: audiences are.

Elaine: You

Trist: Yep.

Elaine: go to where your audiences are,

Elaine: and if your audiences are on

Elaine: social media, you got to be

Elaine: there.

Elaine: So I think that's where I land

Elaine: on this, is that if you are okay

Elaine: living in obscurity, I think to

Elaine: your point, if you are only

Elaine: playing in one venue, or if you

Elaine: have a special relationship with

Elaine: a smaller community and that's

Elaine: where you're playing, that's

Elaine: great.

Elaine: You don't need to do a whole lot of advertisements.

Elaine: People will just show up for

Elaine: their own reasons, and you will

Elaine: show up and you will play, and

Elaine: that's cool.

Elaine: But if you do want people to find out more about you and to

Elaine: really form that relationship, you got to find some other way

Elaine: of doing it.

Trist: I guess the last thing is to fill Vanessa's first post, that

Trist: the social media connection will only ever be a hollow facsimile

Trist: of what you do.

Trist: Well, that's on you then.

Trist: Like, the whole goal to me is to not put a hollow facsimile of

Trist: what you do.

Trist: The tough part is to actually show really what you do and have

Trist: it come through.

Trist: So not allowing it to be a

Trist: hollow facsimile is up to the

Trist: artist.

Trist: I don't think it's just fact

Trist: that it's always going to be

Trist: that way.

Trist: I think it's up to the artist to

Trist: make sure that it's not a hollow

Trist: facsimile.

Elaine: I love that thought.

Elaine: And so I think it's a great time for us to finish out here.

Elaine: Any last thoughts on this?

Trist: Uh, no.

Elaine: I mean, it's a good place to end.

Elaine: So.

Trist: Beautiful.

Trist: Yes.

Elaine: All right.

Elaine: So without we're going to close out our episode.

Elaine: But as we've been asking, we thank you so much.

Elaine: There have been a lot of people

Elaine: who have shared our episodes

Elaine: with others.

Elaine: We've been talking to people who

Elaine: have shared with family members,

Elaine: with other people who love

Elaine: music.

Elaine: And so that is something that we want to encourage you to do if

Elaine: you like this episode, if you like one of the other episodes

Elaine: that we've recorded, please do share it with someone because we

Elaine: are trying to grow.

Elaine: Certainly we're on social media,

Elaine: but we are also hoping to grow

Elaine: through word of mouth because we

Elaine: know that that's the most

Elaine: powerful.

Trist: And as we've mentioned before, we now have playlists on all of

Trist: the outlets you can check out.

Trist: So just check out the playlist,

Trist: maybe send the playlist of all

Trist: the songs we've done to

Trist: somebody.

Trist: And if there's a song that

Trist: really strikes them or even a

Trist: song that they already know that

Trist: they love that we've covered,

Trist: maybe they'll go to that episode

Trist: first.

Trist: Or if you're listening now and

Trist: you want to check that out,

Trist: maybe you haven't listened to

Trist: all of our episodes, you can

Trist: listen to the songs and see

Trist: which ones really hit home for

Trist: you.

Trist: And you want to know some more about.

Trist: So check those out as well.

Elaine: I will say that it is definitely an eclectic list.

Elaine: The more

Trist: It

Elaine: that I

Trist: is.

Elaine: stare at the list, the more I'm like, wow, we have covered a lot

Elaine: of ground in this podcast

Trist: That's what we're

Elaine: and

Trist: going for.

Elaine: just about a half a year.

Trist: Indeed.

Trist: That's what we're shooting for.

Trist: Variety is great.

Elaine: Awesome.

Elaine: And with that, we'll catch you next week.

Trist: Thanks.

Elaine: I'll probably cut some of that out.

Trist: No you can't, you can't.

Trist: You have to leave in the stupid

Trist: stuff that makes it less

Trist: sterile.

Elaine: I will try not to slouch and

Elaine: maybe my voice will sound

Elaine: better.

Trist: Anyway, right when you first said, I said, well, yeah, I

Trist: mean, there's a kick drum, but there's a lot of other drums.

Trist: Elaine

Elaine: That was super cute.

Trist: That's right.

Trist: Right here on the radio.

Trist: The mailbag.

Elaine: So have- Ah, I've already said that.