In this episode, we talk to Dr. Kim Major-Ford, the Interim Director of the Counseling and Wellness Center at Governors State University. Dr. Major-Ford discusses the evolution of mental health on college campuses, especially in post-pandemic academia. We consider partnerships that have expanded in-person and online access for students needing mental health services. Dr. Major-Ford also shares the importance of mental health check-ins and the efforts to de-stigmatize counseling and other wellness services.

Referenced in this podcast:

• LivingWell@GSU | Governors State University - With a variety of new mental health resources for students through LivingWell@GSU, find support options that works best for you. It is free and confidential.

SUMMARY KEYWORDS

students, counseling, mental health, gsu, access, experiencing, terms, counseling center, mental illness, conversation, work, provide, campus, amy, college, pandemic, affecting, services, mentioned, journey

SPEAKERS

Amy Vujaklija, Joi Patterson, Kim Major-Ford

In terms of mental health, everyone has it. It relates to your overall well being.

Welcome to our podcast teaching and leading with Dr. Amy and Dr. Joy. I am Dr. Amy Vujaklija, Director of educator preparation.

And I am Dr. Joi Patterson chief diversity officer. Our podcast addresses issues through the lens of diversity, equity and inclusion, along with solutions for us to grow as educators.

So join us on our journey to become better teachers and leaders. So let's get into it. Hello, Dr. Joy.

Hi, Dr. Amy, how are you?

I'm doing great. We have this fantastic conversation plan today, with counseling and wellness with as our focus

now kind of a somber conversation, you know, because we hear that mental illness is on the rise, I am really looking forward to learning more about mental illness. Because I think for many people, we don't even realize when we're dealing with a mental illness, you know, we look at some of those big factors and big issues as mental illness, but we all face mental illness challenges, right. And I think this conversation will help us recognize it. And then what are we doing about it?

Exactly, I think it this conversation offers hope. Because we don't like with any of our conversations, we don't sit with the problem. We try to find solutions. And that's why it really energizes me about what we're doing community mental health, college counseling, and a not for profit agency. In addition to our responsibilities, Dr. Major Ford will be co hosting a podcast called grief scars, fall of 2023, providing a safe space for survivors of various losses to learn, process and heal. So very important. Her expertise primarily lies in working with college students focusing on individual and group therapy. She has a particular interest in helping individuals cope with grief and loss, especially related to homicide and violent death, and is dedicated to working with African American men in this context. Furthermore, she specializes in addressing relationship issues, depression, mood disorders, anxiety disorders, adjustment issues, life transitions, including college and mid life, stress management, coping skills, substance abuse, and spirituality or religion. Wow. Our students are so privileged.

Yes, they are fortunate to have you.

Thank you. Thank you.

Morning, Dr. Kim. Good morning.

Good morning. Thank you for having me.

You look wonderful. And hopefully this will be good practice for your upcoming podcast. Make sure that it's in the show notes. We know that a lot of people need help. And sometimes people just need to listen, sometimes people need to hear you know those things. And I think putting a podcast out there could be another way to provide healing for people, right? Yes. And earlier, Dr. Amy and I were talking about mental illness. So I'm looking forward to you even telling us what is a mental illness. Because most of us don't tend to think that we have a mental illness because we think of some of those big things as mental illness. And we don't think of some of these things that we deal with on a daily basis and sometimes depression as mental illness. So we're looking forward to diving into this today. But before we do talk about you, let's get to know you better on something I do want to add to your resume that can major four factor cam is also one of the leaders in creating our new program, achieving completion with excellence, our ACE program was which is for emancipated foster youth that are going to college so we created a program that's going to help make them successful. So I'm really really excited about that and happy that you added that to your resume canBut tell us about your journey. I mean, there's a lot on your there's a lot on your bile. So if you could just unpack it for us, tell us about your journey to GSU, the governor State University and the work that you're doing here.

Yeah. So yes. So I think that what is key in terms of my journey here and putting out Governor state, but also just an IT University Counseling Center that really came about in my training, particularly at Olivet, Nazarene University and Northern Illinois University, where working with students who came to the counseling center, I really saw a need, and particularly with students of color bipoc students, and the hesitation to access counseling, and when those things in particular access counseling, particularly for African American students, even though they access counseling, a lot of times they then terminate counseling, but also it really highlighted the, you know, that's a transitional period in an individual's life. Right, it's very impactful. Going to college during that, in that season, that life and that journey, there's so much that's happening. But there's also so much growth that happens during that time as well. And so I was excited to be able to be a part of the students journey, as they explored new areas of life and diversity and experiences. And so being able to journey with them as they looked at some things, things that may have been challenging for them things that they're excited about, or just goals, life goals, I really developing affinity for that population.

Let's talk more about that close view you've had of the college campus, especially in most recent years, and the pandemic and all that it brought with it. What do you see as the evolution of mental health on college campuses?

Yes, so I think if you kind of look back, historically, counseling kind of started, just like 1860s. And so basically, it really looked at the physical illness of students, right, and exercise. And then it moved, it moved like 50 years later in the 1900s, to hygiene of hygiene movement, if you will, and, and it really kind of that was kind of the beginning, right. And it happened at Princeton, I think around 1910, where they recognize that students who had potential who, but they were leaving school, or they were dropping out there was not completing their degree for due to emotional personal concerns. And so that was kind of like the the birth of College Counseling, right. But it didn't really expand into the 60s, actually, were more universities began to have service students in terms of counseling. And then if you look further on, in the 70s, there was more black and Hispanic students accessing counseling. And then in the 80s, and 90s, Asian students began accessing counseling. And so as you could see, that's not been that long ago. But it was really It started in a traditional sense, right? You had mainly psychiatrists providing services, and then it moved into a multidisciplinary, where you had psychologists and social workers that came on board, but it was traditional. Now what we've seen is there's this movement, especially since in recent years, there has been more conversation in terms of mental health and well being and, and you know, well being kind of movement, if you will, and so there's more access to it. But then also, because of the diversity, more students are accessing counseling, there's been a there's now a move or push to do things differently to kind of think outside the box to be able to provide a different types of services that are not traditional, such as group therapy, workshops, skills, groups, management, time management, you know those things. And so it's needed because, again, you have to look at the students who are now accessing counseling. They're not traditional students, and so you can't do things the way you used to, at the beginning years ago,

you know, one of the things that I really appreciate, is a lot of these counseling session and group sessions are occurring at the P 12. level now. And I think that helps to normalize it, that we all need some kind of counseling, mental health wellness at some point in our lives. And so it's not so much stigmatized, you know, I read that half the people with mental illness do not receive help. And we see that manifest all the time we see it on the news, how it manifests itself that people with who need help, do not get help. That's a big number. However, it doesn't necessarily surprise me. Because, you know, as I think about it, especially when I was in college, when I would have would I have logged into the counseling office? You know, that would have been a big step for me, you know, based on my ethnicity, how my culture, how I grew up my religious background, like you just don't share things outside of the home. Right. And so there were a lot of things that would have prevented me from doing so. So how has receiving help for people with certain cultures and ethnic and religious group? How have they been stigmatized? And what are we doing to remove that stigma? So we take that stigma away and get them to having help?

Yes, thank you. That's a good question. So I kind of want to build on what you had just mentioned. Right? Because that was loaded your head. That's that's a lot that you said, right. And so I can I, there's a lot of thoughts that I'm having right now. But one that I want to build on is when you said that P through 12. Students, I believe that that's also speaks to what you mentioned, Dr. Amy, in terms of the evolution of mental health, and that is been able to provide it to students at an early age counseling, that change is really important, because as you know, in terms of lifetime course, up until about 14 50%, of students, up to 14 has at least one mental disorder. And then by 20, H 24. It's about 75%. So you can see in that in that age range, right that students are struggling. And so being able to provide that is really important. In terms of stigma. That too is important. You you touched on something that is really important in terms of the religious piece, right, the cultural piece. And so again, there's several things that you can do to be able to reduce that stigma, but one is education, education is really the key. It's also normalizing the culture, right? And certain cultures, it's not normal to access counseling, and so having a conversation, that it's okay not to be okay, having conversations about positive experiences in the community, for those that have access counseling, that goes a long way. And so education is the key to that, being able to give your testimony about positive experiences that you have, and then also having conversations. That is okay. It's normal, you know, life happens. We all experienced moments in our lives, that it's difficult and being able to have support is important. And so having those two conversations, we're we're definitely distinct, D stigmatize mental health and access to counseling.

I wanted to talk about the education piece to D stigmatize. See a counselor going to the Wellness Center. Could you tell us about GSU is counseling and Wellness Center in your role there? Like? What part does education play? And what kind of other services are can people expect from the counseling and Wellness Center?

Yeah, thank you for asking that. So just as I had mentioned, education is really key where awareness, right, and I believe that my team and I, we do a really good job in terms of reaching out beyond the four walls of the Counseling Center to connect to engage with students. That's one way to normalize mental health and an access to counseling that they see us at events that they can talk to us, right, we bring that humanity piece to it. And we also recognize, as I mentioned earlier, in terms of doing things different, being creative, right, because we see across the United States, the demand for counseling has increased, right, but resources cannot meet those demands of students access and counseling, because as you mentioned, Dr. Jordan, that you have a generation now who have access counseling in elementary school in high school. And so those students are now filtering into the higher education. And so they are accessing counseling at a greater rate. We recognize that here at the counseling center, here at GSU. Not only do we service, non traditional students, but the majority of them are commuters about what 98%. And so again, that speaks to you have to be able to look at the population that you serve. And so being sensitive, and having that awareness, part of that is, again, education, awareness, but also access. Here we doing things different, we're being creative, what we have launched now, and I'm really excited to say in the last couple of months, we have launched what we call living well, at GSU. And that is going to be available to students. It's the premise is it's 24/7 365 days a year, immediate access. Yay. Yes, we're so excited about it. Because again, we have students who experienced many barriers, they work, they have full time jobs, or part time jobs, they work in the day, they may have evening work hours, they have families, a lot of students are caregivers. And so when we look at the demographic in which we serve in the past, we had to do things differently. So now students can be able to call into the Counseling Center and be able to receive immediate support. Even after office hours,

right? Because we know a lot of times despair occurs in the evening, right? Absolutely, can really, really help you know, have joy in the morning. We know that right? But it really does. Sometimes when you are alone, in your quiet space, that's when despair occurs. And it's after five, we can't come to campus, we can't talk to someone. So having that service available, is a game changer. And that's amazing.

It is it is. And so the again, the students are now able to get in the moment support, wonderful in support, not only during the week, but also the weekday. And then what we also have launched is peer support, right? Because, again, students, you know, they talk to their friends, they're comfortable having individual face to face therapy. While that is great, and it's needed. Some students don't need that. Right, they need to be able to have a space where they feel comfortable to access support. And so peer support is important. So we have partnered with together all that's where students can be able to go online, anonymously. It's monitored by licensed mental health professionals, where they can connect with others who have shared experiences, they can receive support. They're self directed self help courses, they can set goals, they can journal, there's a place for them to be creative. And then also we have my wife, which is also an online behavioral mental health, a screening tool, where it empowers students to access mental health, gain awareness about the challenges that they're experiencing, and make informed decisions.

This is really great. These are some really great tools, we're gonna add them to the show notes so that people have access to them. Because these are great tools. When we think about planning for our lives and goal setting. Rarely do we think about our mental health, but it's the mental health that gets you to the next step anyway. So I think this is really, really important. And you know, not everyone who needs mental health counseling has what's considered a mental illness. And I think that is important for people to hear when we're talking about wellness. Again, I want to say that again, not everyone who needs mental health counseling or wellness is considered to have a mental illness. So I think that's a huge group. You know, I am I am happy about when we talk about all these new things that help D stigmatize it and get people to you that celebrities are even coming out and say, I'm dealing with this issue. I'm receiving counseling. This is how counseling has helped me now who doesn't want to be like a celebrity, right? So I think those things help. And I read that some stuff on NEA all about this, and I kind of see myself fitting in those categories. It also talked about the majority of college students today meet the criteria for at least one mental health problem. And you alluded to that earlier, like, and you think, sit back and you think about yourself, it's like, oh, can I have a mental health problem? Would I even know how to identify a mental health problem? So I want you to help us, you know, with that the, the mental health problem. It's across all categories of people, right? All ages, all ethnicities, all religious groups, whether you want to, you know, call it a problem or not. There, it's across all of us. And to make matters worse, like you said, counseling centers, now, they're, they're overwhelmed. So I'm glad we're doing some things that can kind of lighten the load and give people access without being so overwhelming. So, you know, when I read those things, I get several messages so that I'm gonna sum up some things for myself. So I can ask a question here. To me, it seems like most college students have some kind of mental health problem at some point. That's what I'm getting at this. First, I'm gonna let you explain what and this is like a three part question. So but first, I'll stop and let you explain what is a mental health problem? And I think a mental health problem is different than a mental health illness. Right, you can correct me.

And I wonder also, I mean, wouldn't it also be different from a mental health crisis?

Okay, yeah. educate us.

Yes, yes. Absolutely. What you had mentioned, Dr. Joy is that yes, mental health does not discriminate. That's one area, it does not discriminate, it affects us. All right. So yes, we all in terms of mental health, everyone has it, it relates to your overall well being. And then there is mental illness, and which is a health condition. But what you're experiencing is clinically significant. It's affecting your functioning, your normal ability to function. And so that's, that's really the, what defines or differentiates between the two. So we all experience stress in life, right there stressors, we are anxious, we experience sadness, but then we're able to work through it, use coping skills, and be able to come through it. Whereas when you're talking about a mental health, illness, or just it's diagnosable, meaning it's affecting how you function. There's from mild to severe, where there's no, there's no relief, it's present is persistent, and it's affecting you socially, it's affecting you, academically is affecting you at work. And so that's on a high level, the difference between the two.

Okay, so that helped, that helped me, you know, because I think sometimes when we deal with mental health challenges, I'll call it that that are not clinically diagnose, that we know that counselors are busy. You know, we know that there's a huge demand. And so I feel like why should I take up room? Why should I take up space? Why should I take up space from that person that may have a bigger issue than me? I mean, how do I get past myself? How do people in these demographic groups that rarely receive treatment? How do we get past that, where we feel like we're enough where we can receive help, and not feel guilty that my problem is too small, and I don't want to take time away from other people.

Two things one is mental health, some some mental health problems. They're preventable, right? It's sort of like with your health. I like to be able to look at both of them in terms of your physical health and your mental health. And so you go to the doctor, right. And you go, you have your annual visits because why it's preventive care. That's the same thing with mental health. You know, you access counseling to be able to build skills, right? Resiliency, that's the coping skills, right? So that when things do come up in your life, where it's more difficult, you have a toolbox of skills that you can access.

So have a mental that we not me, I mean, me personally, too. And I never thought about that Kim. So you're really helping me Dr. Kim that I should have like a mental health checkup number one, and number two, I should probably do some mental health peds type stuff. Right? Is that what you're telling me?

That's what I'm telling you? Absolutely. Absolutely. Sometimes you just want to do a check in, you know, again, it's that mental health is I'm just checking in where am I? Right, again? Well, we talked about it's normalizing, it's changing the culture, right, because a lot of this is preventative. But again, when you feel like you don't have any options or choices, or are an option to be able to access a skill to help you in certain areas, then it becomes oppressive, because you don't see a way out. But to be able to have a conversation, to be able to talk to someone in a safe space and confidence and be able to speak what you're experiencing. Sometimes that's enough, right to be able to get out of what is in your head and to be able to speak it and then you will be able to face it and to be able to deal with it before it becomes a major problem.

Now that is so very helpful. Whenever we think about our physical well being if we see there's an issue or sometimes even like you said, it's preventative, we are seeing a lot of stress and a lot of anxiety, really, the pandemic I think is shined a light on some issues and exacerbated other issues. Could you talk a little bit about the mental health early action on campus Act and the standards that the counseling and Wellness Center are implementing or have implemented? And what does that look like?

Yeah, absolutely. So so this year, a governor Pritzker signed the mental health early action on campus Act, which provided funding to universities and colleges to address the gaps in mental health services on campus and in Illinois, and to increase access. And so that's what we're kind of talking about today. Right? Which was, it's crucial. I applaud the Governor for signing this because universities need the funding. And so yes, Governor state received funds, and a part of that the standard, or what they were looking to do was to be able to increase training, peer support, and also partnerships, on campus, and in the community. And so they found that it was important in particular with the partnerships, because, again, some students, for whatever reason, may not access counseling on campus. And so being able to provide them with resources in the community is also important. Being able to have partnerships with community organizations, you can be able to send students there. And also because it is a college counseling center, there are some things that we just cannot do. A lot of us have a brief therapy model, where students don't have unlimited sessions. And so some need a higher level of care. And so when we are able to connect with the community, we are able to provide referrals to students who may need a higher level of care, or they have they experiencing a disorder that we don't treat at college counseling centers. And so that was really important. And so that's what we did here at the counseling center. Governor state, we have training, we increase workshops. Again, I talked about the three areas in terms of peer support 24/7 access to crisis support, mental health screening, because again, and we talked about this and Dr. Joe, you mentioned in terms of it takes a lot of courage to come to a constant center and to be able to sit across from someone and share what's difficult. The reality is some students that just is not Something that they want to do. And so then you have to have to provide other access to students that is anonymous where they feel comfortable in a certain in a certain environment. That's what we did. We looked at the population that we served, and what are the barriers and we address those barriers.

And the resources that we offer, are they all free, they're offering and pretty much unlimited unless we have to refer them outside.

So which is great is good as good is that we have a multi pieces if you will, right. So if individual therapy, you're not looking for that, that's okay. We have group counseling, you're not looking for group counseling, you want to just be able to connect with our peers and get support that way you can do that behavioral screenings, that's something you want to do. Again, you can do that as well. There's so many different resources available to students now than we ever had in the past for students, they can do that 24/7. Also, what I did not mention is that we're also bringing psychiatric services here. Oh, wonderful Counseling Center, which is really important, because again, you can have talk therapy, but also, some students are looking for medication. And sometimes in combination that works. Well.

We don't want students self medicating. Absolutely not.

Absolutely, absolutely not. And here's the thing is that, while it's not unlimited sessions, we're here for them throughout their journey, through GSU, their educational experience. And so they can come they can access counseling, over the years that they're here. We also build them up, we talk about that resiliency. And so there will be moments where we call it like sharpening those those tools. Outside of the therapeutic space, we have a lot of different resources that are available new resources to students here at GSU. And we're excited about it. Again, we're launching a campaign. We have a new website. And then also we have a page that's specifically dedicated to the services that I share with you all today.

So can't what is the most common thing that students on campus come to counseling center about? And has the pandemic impacted? That hasn't changed? What's the most common thing that people come see you about?

Depression, anxiety,

and how has the pandemic and post pandemic impacted that

for those who have already who are already experiencing mental health concerns or problems, it exacerbated those disorders that that they were just experiencing? I think that more students are accessing counseling since the pandemic because again, I think that that connection was missing. And so we see that students are excited. We added teletherapy, where we have virtual sessions, but now we're seeing students say, you know, before it was like, Yeah, I love it. I can be, you know, in my room, I could be at home and counseling. But we've also seen students now saying, oh, would it come in person. So we also we offer in person as well. And so I think that more students are accessing counseling. I think also because during the pandemic, there was a lot of conversation about mental health, counseling, well being mindfulness, a lot of students are are looking at mindfulness meditation. And so it has, it has opened up a conversation. And so I'm starting to see the shift in terms of again, that cultural norm.

Yeah. You know, Amy and I, we were just talking about mindfulness. And you know, we want to turn everything into data, like it would be great to see because we offer mindfulness classes built in someone who majors and what's been the impact, what's the outcome? And how do you measure that, you know, we'll also be interesting, which is sometimes hard to measure what is the impact of receiving mental health, wellness therapy, you know, what is the impact of that and we know indirectly, that it has a huge impact on student retention and student completion, students success and just their overall we know that it has huge outcome, but it's hard to collect that on that Right.

It is.

You talk a lot about your external partnerships. And there's it's fantastic to have such a connection to the community to virtual resources. It's blowing me away at what kind of access GSU is offering students, which is it's phenomenal. Could you also share about your partnerships with in the university? Without with the GSU police or faculty staff? What does that look like?

Yeah, absolutely. So we've heard the term that it takes a village right. And so that really is that really is key here is that, you know, we cannot do this alone. We cannot do this work alone. And having partnerships within GSU is really important. You mentioned the police department. And when I met with Chief Magee in terms of they knew the living well at GSU. He immediately expressed support, because we need them. And they are a key component to what would make this work, right. Because again, we are providing services to students 24/7 365 days, the counseling center is open monday through friday from nine to five. And so students who are in crisis, they can access the the, in the moment counseling crisis support line, but also it may require that a police department being notified to be able to help in terms of students if they are they live here on campus, or in residential housing, to be able to contact emergency services to be able to, you know, support the students and give them access to the care that they need. And so that was really important. I appreciate him coming on board. It was like what do you need us to do, I would make sure that my officers are trained, they are aware of the program. And then we have the faculty. They reach out to the counselors that are asked us to come to the class to the to their classes to present to them to the students, which is really important because that helps to destigmatize mental health. And so having us in the classroom, talking with the students, giving them an opportunity to ask questions to be able to learn about the services that we provide is really important. And so we appreciate that. And just I want to a side note is that now what we have is also where faculty and staff can also access the counseling students website. And now we have a form for faculty to fill out if they want us to come to the classroom. And also we make it available that if there's any event here on campus, where the content may may elicit emotions, that they have a counselor present. So that's counselor in support. At these events, we will come to the event so that if a student is experiencing some emotional feelings, or having a reaction to whatever it is that's being presented at that particular event, a counselor will be there to support that student. Again, that is being able to do things differently to meet the needs of students, we want to be able to provide events and experiences to students, but we also aware that sometimes it can be emotional. Support is important.

That is phenomenal. I hope that we can get that word out to all of our faculty members for any kind of event or topic that might have a alarming component or might trigger some raw emotions that I reach out. That's fantastic. Before we go, I want to come back and talk about the mental health check in So what questions do we need to be asking ourselves during a mental health check in what what do we just need to reflect upon in order to kind of see if we're in the in the right space?

So during the check and you just kind of want to come in and just share about you know, maybe there's some goals, what are maybe some barriers to that go to those goals that you have? It may be you know, just checking in with yourself. How am I feeling? Right learning about Other questions to ask? And and not only that, but even in the moment learning that you can do that throughout the day, right? And so being able to have a check in, so I think I'm not sure if you can bring clarity in terms of is do you mean in terms of a check in with a counselor or just a check in, in your own personal space? In your time?

In our own personal space? I'm wondering, what should we be asking ourselves? Yeah, yeah. In that, like making that decision, whether we need to seek additional support additional help, because we do normalize our feelings and our emotions. We're like, Oh, I'm just stressed right now. I'm a little anxious because this project is due. And when should we be asking ourselves? Is this really normal to feel this way? Do I need additional support? Do I need to be talking to someone about this? And I think we all are guilty of that. And just, Oh, I'm just stressed right now. I can handle it, though.

Dr. Amy, you just you just talked yourself through it. That's That's exactly. The question is.

Good job back to Amy.

Yeah, absolutely.

You can call me your peer. And I can say, Amy, this is above. This is above me. Let's get you to the counseling center.

But yes, Dr. Amy, those are the questions you want to ask yourself, right. And then, you know, again, you know, how am I doing? One of the I mentioned this earlier. And so it is if you continue to find yourself. Sad, and it's persistent. It's not lifting is affecting your ability to function. And it happens over a longer period of time, then you might want to, you know, ask yourself, I might need to be able to, I need to talk to someone, that's the key is to look at, how significant is it affecting you in terms of your functioning. Now, as a student, we have a cares team here at GSU. And so the cares team is made up of different individuals in a department where faculty and staff can be able to report you know, a student in terms of in writing he may have witnessed in class, etc.

Anyone we think that's in crisis?

Yeah.

Okay,

so yeah, yeah. So there's some things that you might want to be aware of to look at in terms of of that, but the cares team again, it's, it's a structure to report stones of concern.

And that's because that student, sometimes I think you're in a place where you don't even know how to get help, or you just don't know where to turn to. So I really love that component. But it's been an education for me. It's been wonderful talking to you. We will add all these resources in our show notes so that people can access you and the center. But this has just been a marvelous conversation. Thank you for enlightening us.

Yes. Thank you. Thank you for having me.

It's been great. Let's have a follow up.

Yes, absolutely. Absolutely.

Thank you for listening to teaching and leading with Dr. Amy and Dr. Joi. Visit our website at govst.edu/teaching and leading podcast to see the show notes from this episode.

We appreciate Governor State University's work behind the scenes to make publishing possible. Stay tuned for more episodes with Dr. Amy and Dr. Joi