As a police officer and former child and youth care worker, Jason Walsh has seen the challenges that young men face through several different lenses. Growing up in a lower-income family with a single mother and a father who was often in jail, his own story is one of hardship and making his way through “by the power and grace” of his mother.

In our conversation, Jason shares how finding a male mentor at a young age changed his life and how there is a great need for this type of supportive relationship. Why? Because young men are growing up without learning how to cope with strong emotions or how to navigate tough situations and, without support, this leads many men to addictions or criminal activity.

Asking for help - or being that source of help, ourselves - is no small task. Both require the courage to be vulnerable because we risk rejection or shame whenever we put ourselves out there like that, but the potential rewards far outweigh the risks because who cares about a few moments of discomfort when we have the ability to change life for the better?

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00;00;00;00 - 00;00;22;22

Jason Walsh

What I deal with on a regular basis. For years, people who never had the ability to develop true coping skills. And so when they get angry, they punch people, or when they're depressed, they go do drugs. Young people and men in particular, are missing good quality mentors who can help them and guide them. That's not only something that's missing, but in a lot of ways it's a bit of a calling for us.

00;00;22;25 - 00;00;33;25

Jason Walsh

I think a lot of police officers become task oriented. So once the situation in the crisis is de-escalated, that's when I find a lot of people experience that emotional overflow. And it starts to pour out into their own personal lives.

00;00;33;27 - 00;00;57;10

Matt Howlett

You are listening to the akkeri podcast, a show about men and masculinity, the challenges that modern men face, and how to chart a better way forward. I'm your host, Matt Howlett, mental health coach and founder of the akkeri. This episode is a conversation with Jason Walsh, a police officer and former youth care worker. We talk about the importance of having mentors and being mentors ourselves, as well as the importance of coping skills and emotional support.

00;00;57;10 - 00;01;14;11

Matt Howlett

Both in his role as a police officer and in adolescent development. I find Jason's desire to serve and support other men and his community at large inspiring and I hope you do too. One of the things that I like to do is just to get a brief, just cause notes version of who it is that I'm talking to.

00;01;14;11 - 00;01;17;20

Matt Howlett

So to give me the calls notes version of Jason Walsh.

00;01;17;23 - 00;01;40;02

Jason Walsh

And calls notes version of Jason Walls. So I grew up in Saint John's, Newfoundland, right. What we would call probably low income. We didn't have a whole lot growing up. I grew up in a family with three brothers, so there was four boys and a single mom. My father spent the majority of his time in jail as when we were children.

00;01;40;02 - 00;02;03;22

Jason Walsh

So most of the time when we were children, my parents were split up when they were together. My father was an alcoholic and abusive. And so I grew up in a home where I had a powerful single mother who raised four boys and did a fantastic job at that, I would like to say, and she also dealt with intimate partner violence on a regular basis.

00;02;03;22 - 00;02;21;03

Jason Walsh

And we experienced that in our homes, and we saw that in our homes. Most of my life growing up, my father was in and out of jail, and when he was around, he wasn't, you know, fantastic or great and yeah, but there were times there were there were good times and, and whatnot with him. Eventually they did decide to finally split up and they did that.

00;02;21;03 - 00;02;36;29

Jason Walsh

And my mother continued to raise us on her own and, and continued to struggle on her own to do that. You know, we grew up utilizing food hampers and all that kind of stuff, but we made our way through, and that was by the power and grace of my mother, kind of steaming forward and taking care of us.

00;02;37;01 - 00;02;55;14

Jason Walsh

Eventually, you know, we move out on our own. I had at some point in time in my early youth, you know, I was probably 13 or 14. I had, a kind of a religious conversion experience. So that occurred, and I can remember the old circle square and stuff, you know.

00;02;55;14 - 00;02;57;01

Matt Howlett

So I do. Yeah.

00;02;57;04 - 00;03;15;00

Jason Walsh

I ended up going to Circle Square Ranch when I was a child. And, a friend of mine, a friend of the family, had paid for that to happen for me. And so I had that religious experience there and a conversion experience there. And I spent a lot of my youth involved in the church and, and becoming, you know, part of the youth group there and all that stuff.

00;03;15;00 - 00;03;32;15

Jason Walsh

But nobody in my family was involved in that. I was the only one I would get up on my own at 13 or 14 Sunday morning and make my way to church. And Friday night, when the rest of the people who I grew up around where I would hanging out and doing their thing. Yeah, I was walking to church Friday night to spend time there, so that was kind of neat.

00;03;32;15 - 00;03;54;07

Jason Walsh

And it made a different experience for me in that church environment, too. So after there, I spent some time working in BC. I ended up studying theology there for a couple of years. My intention there to do that was to become a youth minister. But after doing that for two years, I felt like, that's not me. It's not my cup of tea.

00;03;54;10 - 00;04;30;23

Jason Walsh

Okay. You know, I never grew up in that religious world and experiencing it when you're just surrounded by it at all times. It was a bit too much for me, and so I stepped away from that. I ended up doing about ten years, then working in child and youth care work in group homes. So I worked in residential use care, where, you know, we've got young young boys mostly living in care, sometimes due to issues that are caused by their behavior problems or their mental health diagnosis, other times due to issues involved from their parents and or very poor parenting that they grew up around.

00;04;30;23 - 00;04;53;13

Jason Walsh

00;04;53;15 - 00;04;54;23

Jason Walsh

So time is certainly flying.

00;04;54;23 - 00;04;57;28

Matt Howlett

Yes. Where I'm really realizing here ten years.

00;04;58;00 - 00;05;02;21

Jason Walsh

Yeah. And so that was ten years in the group home. And I think I met you working in the group home setting.

00;05;02;28 - 00;05;08;17

Matt Howlett

Yeah, I think so. But I didn't realize that you did that for ten years. I did that for about three.

00;05;08;24 - 00;05;39;09

Jason Walsh

Yeah, it was the end. It was so eye opening. It was one of those careers that has changed my perspective on life. What I do and it's something that I brought forward to policing in what I do now, a lot of times I still perceive myself as like a child and youth care worker, just that I'm dealing with people from the criminal element who never had developed the opportunity, or never had the opportunity to develop the coping skills and stuff that we were trying to teach these kids in the group home setting.

00;05;39;11 - 00;06;03;25

Jason Walsh

Now I'm dealing with them as they became adults. Yeah, I remember one of the big important things that I learned from there from we used to have this model called, therapeutic crisis intervention, and I taught that in that platform for a couple of years there at the place that we worked at. Yep. But one of the base model questions to ask yourself when dealing with someone in crisis was, how am I feeling now?

00;06;03;28 - 00;06;24;15

Jason Walsh

And so right. That's something that I still, to this day, ask myself when I'm dealing with someone in the criminal element, when they're escalated or they're heartbroken or they're dealing with a mental health crisis, I ask myself first, how am I feeling now? Yes, I know that that's going to dictate how I interact with that person and what I help them kind of come up with, you know?

00;06;24;17 - 00;06;30;04

Matt Howlett

Yeah, exactly. Whatever's going on with us, we bring that into the situation. It's a it's an add on.

00;06;30;06 - 00;06;32;08

Jason Walsh

We can't even help it. You know, it just happens, right?

00;06;32;12 - 00;06;47;06

Matt Howlett

Yeah. But that's it's key, I'm sure to, to be aware of that. And, I mean, I have to do that every time I jump on a call, with a guy that, you know, not knowing exactly where they might be at at any given moment, you know, when I'm stepping into their lives in that, in that way.

00;06;47;06 - 00;07;06;08

Matt Howlett

And I have to be I have to be ready for one, to be able to to kind of put on that hat and ensure that I'm in that headspace, but also that my stuff is, is managed and processed and under control. Right. That must be even more of a challenge, though, for you as, specifically as a police officer.

00;07;06;08 - 00;07;24;22

Matt Howlett

I remember what it was like as a child youth care worker, because there were situations that were sometimes it felt like beyond our control where like some of the guys like, I feel like there was points when they wanted to test us. Right. But in your role as a police officer, I mean, tell me a little a little bit about that.

00;07;24;22 - 00;07;29;00

Matt Howlett

That must be far more challenging in that role. Is that correct or.

00;07;29;02 - 00;07;59;22

Jason Walsh

It certainly is. Yes. It's way more challenging. And the implications of my interaction with someone as a police officer are oftentimes far greater than they are as what they were as a as a child care worker. And you spoke about people trying to test your boundaries and whatnot, and that happens a lot as a police officer. A lot of times people have had bad experiences with police or they at least perceived police as one thing, you know, being difficult or being against them.

00;07;59;22 - 00;08;19;05

Jason Walsh

And so my message to people is always trying to hit home that, you know, I'm not against anybody. I just want to have a peaceful resolution to whatever the situation is. Yeah. And sometimes that unfortunately, sometimes it does mean that someone has to be arrested or taken into custody and their rights and freedoms and liberties are taken away from them.

00;08;19;07 - 00;08;39;17

Jason Walsh

That's something that we take very, very seriously. And so it does become a challenge, because not only am I trying to help people cope and help people learn and help people get through a particularly difficult situation for them, there are times when I physically have to take their freedoms and liberties away from them, and that, for lack of a better term, it sucks.

00;08;39;19 - 00;08;59;26

Jason Walsh

Yeah, it sucks for everybody involved. So it does, it does pose it and an additional issue in relation to that, but it also provides good opportunity to show empathy and understanding for someone's situation and recognize that this is difficult, not just for the person who's a victim of a criminal element, but also for the perpetrator of that as well.

00;08;59;26 - 00;09;01;18

Jason Walsh

It's difficult for everyone involved, you know.

00;09;01;20 - 00;09;20;01

Matt Howlett

Yeah. How do you manage the the thoughts, the feelings, emotions that are wrapped up in that type of experience? Like first on the job, but then obviously, you know, we're all human. You take experiences like that off the job. What does that what does it like for you? What do you do to to manage that?

00;09;20;04 - 00;09;43;06

Jason Walsh

It's it is very difficult. And a lot of times what we see now I'm part of the are critical incident stress management team at work and our peer support network at work as well. And so part of what we're doing is trying to recognize the fact that not only do we experience high trauma situations and difficult situations, but we also have to look after each other and take care of one another.

00;09;43;09 - 00;10;07;10

Jason Walsh

It can be a challenge to experience something, but I think a lot of police officers, myself included, we become task oriented when we're in the middle of that crisis situation. And so in many ways, you downplay your emotional state at that point in time because you can't let that control you. So we become task oriented. So I know that person has to be moved away from person B.

00;10;07;10 - 00;10;37;11

Jason Walsh

And so that's my task and I focus on that. But those emotional aspects can overflow on you afterwards. So once the situation in the crisis is de-escalated and it's down, that's when I find a lot of people experience that emotional overflow and it starts to pour out into their own personal lives. And so as part of what we're doing now at the RNC and in other organizations, is trying to focus on helping people with that overflow of emotions and that overflow of experience and trauma.

00;10;37;11 - 00;11;03;19

Jason Walsh

Because you can't cope with that every single day and just buried away. I expect that things are going to be fine after a 25 year career of experience and trauma and and vicarious trauma through other people's issues as well. Right. And expect that you'll be fine. So we're trying our best to cope with people or help people kind of co regulate a little bit and also learn how to regulate on their own and find their own methods of coping.

00;11;03;19 - 00;11;04;27

Jason Walsh

I guess.

00;11;05;00 - 00;11;19;24

Matt Howlett

So what does it look like specifically is that only therapy, like I'm assuming all RNC officers have access to, you know, therapists, psychiatrist, psychologist, whatever it is that they might need counselors. What does that look like for you? What do you find works best?

00;11;19;27 - 00;11;42;11

Jason Walsh

Yeah. So first of all, just to mention, we do all have access to therapy and counselors on a regular basis. We actually have an onsite psychologist who is amazing. And that's great, great opportunity to speak to people. And that's not just open for police officers, it's open for anyone who works with our organization. So that's that's fantastic. But personally, it's my family that keeps me whole, you know?

00;11;42;11 - 00;11;59;09

Jason Walsh

So I've got two awesome young boys who I enjoy spending as much time with as I can. And they're they're what keeps me whole. And that and some fitness, you know, so I get a little gym set up in my basement. When I get a half hour, I'll work out there. I'll go for a run or something like that.

00;11;59;09 - 00;12;20;23

Jason Walsh

So it's simplistic for me, but it's the small things that that really make a big difference. It's paying attention to my immediate family, recognizing what's going on with them and the importance of spending time with them, as well as some physical fitness stuff. And for me, that that has tended to work there. A couple of years ago, my wife had kind of mentioned to me, like, you're you're on edge a little bit more.

00;12;20;24 - 00;12;42;18

Jason Walsh

You're you seem a little bit more stressed out. And so I did I set up an appointment and I worked through some things there, and they help me kind of cope through some of the things that I was challenging and not even realizing. But I'm bringing things home and the emotional trauma that I experienced at work. And, right, the problems that I see at work and I'm bringing them home, I don't even realize I'm carrying those things, of course.

00;12;42;18 - 00;12;51;03

Jason Walsh

So, you know, just some couple of IAP sessions and I was able to kind of work through some of those things. And, and that's been fantastic. And it's a recognition for me to do that.

00;12;51;04 - 00;12;53;17

Matt Howlett

Yeah. What is IAP?

00;12;53;19 - 00;13;14;10

Jason Walsh

It's, an employee assistance program. So, basically any anybody within the government, Newfoundland, Labrador has the ability to kind of reach out to their EAP program, which is employee assistance program. And, they'll they'll be able to provide a number of therapy sessions for that person based on their needs. Yeah.

00;13;14;14 - 00;13;34;12

Matt Howlett

Okay. I assume that existed within the RNC. I never knew the specifics of it. And like, as, as, you know, like, my mother worked in the chief's office for about 20 years before she passed, and I'd never mentioned that to me, but that was also something that wasn't discussed a whole lot in our family. And that's a whole other discussion, like mental health, mental well-being, just check ins.

00;13;34;12 - 00;13;57;06

Matt Howlett

How are you? You know what I mean? Not how are the things, you know what I mean? Like, what do you need for school? What do you what do you need for the sports thing that you're in or whatever. But that's it's not a big conversation I find for it. I feel like that's changing. I don't know if you listen to the episode with, my good friend Matt Dennis, we talked about fathering a fair bit, and we find that the conversation is changing.

00;13;57;06 - 00;14;30;05

Matt Howlett

And that is one of the main reasons behind this podcast, is to kind of encourage that conversation, to continue to grow, to expand, to inspire people to have these conversations and to think about things like this, to think about their mental well-being and to figure out what it is that can work for them. You mentioned, just a few minutes ago, when you're talking about the challenges that you see in policing, specifically related to younger folks that you come across and then seeing them later on in life, coping skills, what do you see as the main issue there?

00;14;30;08 - 00;14;50;21

Matt Howlett

I mean, you can speak to young men and women, but obviously I'm interested in what is it that young men are missing that that leads them down that path where you've run into them at 16, 17 and now you're again running into them at 26, 27 in their 30s, similar struggles. What is it? That's what's what's missing.

00;14;50;23 - 00;15;11;17

Jason Walsh

Yeah. And this is such a difficult question, of course, because for for each person, you know, individually, their life is so different than ours. But I can tell you from my experience what that was for me and what what helped get me on that path. And I think it translates to many of the people that I deal with on a regular basis, one I think is mentors, people.

00;15;11;18 - 00;15;34;22

Jason Walsh

Young people and men in particular are missing mentors in life, good quality mentors who can help them and guide them in particular path in life and good positive paths that that's not only something that's missing, but in a lot of ways, Matt, it's it's a bit of a calling for us as men ourselves to make sure that we're being positive mentors and leaders for.

00;15;34;22 - 00;15;57;19

Jason Walsh

Absolutely. Yeah. So when I think back to, you know, I tell you a little bit about my family history and whatnot, but one of the biggest mentors that I ever had in my life was one of the times when my father was in prison in a federal prison. He ended up meeting the chaplain there. So he was having his own kind of spiritual, you know, awakenings, user awakening or whatever you want to call it.

00;15;57;24 - 00;16;21;19

Jason Walsh

And so he speaks to the chaplain there, and the chaplain became friends with our family. So he's still one of my best friends today. And I was only two years old when he first met my family. But he took on that role of a mentor for me and helped me understand myself and helped me understand that my path is not determined by my family history, and my destiny is not written in the stars.

00;16;21;19 - 00;16;48;09

Jason Walsh

And so sometimes I think that young people, do get back to the question need that they need someone who's a good, positive mentor in their life. And it takes one person, just one, to be that good, positive mentor and and lead them in the right direction. Another thing is, you know, like I mentioned, coping skills, some basic coping skills being developed, preferably at a younger age is what people need.

00;16;48;16 - 00;17;11;17

Jason Walsh

Because what I see, what I deal with on a regular basis from, you know, a criminal element is people who never had the ability or the lessons or the opportunity to develop true coping skills because we all need them. Like I mentioned before, I hang out with my kids for I'll go for a workout or whatever it is that works for me, but they never developed those things.

00;17;11;17 - 00;17;37;09

Jason Walsh

And so when they get angry, they punch people or when they're frustrated at their wife, they hit her. Or, you know, when they're depressed, they don't do drugs. So those become their poor coping skills. And then that leads to police intervention oftentimes. And so that's a couple of the huge things I think people need. So you know, mentorship coping skills, discipline, responsibility.

00;17;37;09 - 00;18;02;19

Jason Walsh

You know, a lot of the young people that I deal with now, they're not responsible for anything. There's no there's no job for them or there's no family. Like right now I have you know, my responsibility is my family number one, that that will always come first, you know? But even as a younger person, there is other responsibilities that I took on you know, working at Circle Square Ranch as a as a leader there or, a summer job or whatever.

00;18;02;19 - 00;18;18;22

Jason Walsh

But I see a lot of people who are responsible less, if that makes any sense. You know, they don't have they don't have anything to tie themselves down to help take care of them, because a lot of times we're better at taking care of other people or other things than we are taking care of ourselves.

00;18;18;22 - 00;18;20;01

Matt Howlett

Oh, absolutely.

00;18;20;04 - 00;18;31;06

Jason Walsh

So if we have something or someone to be responsible for, responsible with them, I think that will help us develop those skills as well. So those are some of the things that I see as missing. And yeah, young men today, you know. Yeah.

00;18;31;06 - 00;18;53;10

Matt Howlett

That, reminds me of, it's a chapter and one of Jordan Peterson's book. I, I like the guy. I think he's extremely intelligent, well-spoken. I don't agree with everything the man says, but there are some some great stuff in that book. And one of the chapters is basically about learning to take care of yourself as if you were responsible for, well, in the way that you're responsible for someone, someone else.

00;18;53;14 - 00;19;14;19

Matt Howlett

And I'm roughly paraphrasing, but I can't remember the exact name, the title, but that's the concept exactly what you just said. Like when we are like, say, when my mother was sick, my siblings did more of that because I was living away. But, you know, she was very sick and, you know, late stage cancer. And so we were doing everything and anything that we could.

00;19;14;22 - 00;19;32;16

Matt Howlett

And, you know, like I said, they did a lot more than I did. I wasn't I wasn't here until towards the end of that. But that's what you do, right? You you have a schedule, you know, when the pills have to, to go, you know, with food or without with, you know what I mean? Like all those specific details where we're so we can be so anal about those things when it comes to someone else.

00;19;32;19 - 00;20;01;26

Matt Howlett

But for ourselves and especially as men, we we just learn to push things down and rather than deal with them, rather than learn the coping skills, right, how to deal with them. And so much, I think, of what you just talked about is like that internal turmoil. A lot of what I talked about actually with with Cortez on episode five about building mental fitness, it's the thoughts and the feelings and the heavy, strong emotions that we just don't know what to do with it.

00;20;01;28 - 00;20;02;23

Matt Howlett

Right? Yeah.

00;20;02;26 - 00;20;17;22

Jason Walsh

And I often wonder why it is that we as men, we kind of want to hold things back and I don't know if that's just part of our makeup or if it's something that's been taught to us or if it's a combination of both. But there is definitely a part of us that one that wants to hold things back.

00;20;17;22 - 00;20;36;08

Jason Walsh

And even me, as someone who's trying to take on an important role at my work and in my family, is someone who's a supportive person, who's open about conversations, even I want to hold back sometimes. And I think, like, you know, suck it up, Jason, and move on sometimes that sometimes you do have to do that, you know, at a, at a low level.

00;20;36;08 - 00;20;54;19

Jason Walsh

But we need to recognize what we're feeling and what we're dealing. Absolutely. Back to the what people are missing as well as, you know, remember that first question I said about like, you know, I ask myself, what am I feeling now? I don't think anybody ever does that. You know, we're not enough people. We don't ask ourselves like, what am I feeling right now?

00;20;54;27 - 00;21;22;06

Jason Walsh

Yeah. And men don't have I'm sure there's research on it. I just don't know it. But men don't have a strong emotional vocabulary. A lot of men, you know, it's it's it's angry or angry or pissed off or sad. Well, that's about it, you know, it's like we're we don't have an emotional vocabulary. And if we can mention those things and label them and say, okay, geez, I am feeling depressed right now, or I am feeling sad right now, or I'm frustrated right now, like, yep.

00;21;22;08 - 00;21;26;23

Jason Walsh

And I was just labeling those things and recognizing them will help you make better decisions, right?

00;21;26;23 - 00;21;45;06

Matt Howlett

Yeah. Well, it's it's self-knowledge, right? It's it's learning more about yourself, discovering more about yourself. And I'm going to plug in another episode just because it's such a perfect fit for what you're talking about. And I think it's episode two with, Doctor Ron Johnson called balls because that's the title of his book, and I and I just, I love it.

00;21;45;06 - 00;21;48;15

Jason Walsh

It's man. And pick that up yet. Okay. I'm going to have to get that at some point.

00;21;48;17 - 00;22;12;12

Matt Howlett

Yeah. Honestly, I was saying to the one of the last guests I was chatting with recently that he's just one of those guys that has so much knowledge and experience, but also has the ability to bring it down a level. You know what I mean? Sometimes I've met folks that are very intellectual and, you know, I've done a master's degree, I've been in that world a little bit, and I've come across people that I don't always understand them when they're trying to relate things to me.

00;22;12;12 - 00;22;34;12

Matt Howlett

It's on like the PhD level. And I just I get lost after a couple, you know, a couple of concepts, a couple sentences, and I'm like, okay, can you just go back, you know, but Ron, Ron's got this way of of just bringing it, you know, where the rubber meets the road, help you understand. And, that's one of the biggest things in his book is, men finding courage with words.

00;22;34;15 - 00;22;54;07

Matt Howlett

You know what I mean? The ability to say I am sad, like they feel angry because that might be the first, you know, just knee jerk reaction. Something upset them, but they're actually said, you know what I mean? If someone was to come in, to the room right now, we're, you know, having this conversation with you and interrupt me, I'd be angry.

00;22;54;09 - 00;23;24;28

Matt Howlett

But ultimately, that's sadness because I'm enjoying this conversation. I had put this on the schedule. You know, I've been looking forward to this. I enjoyed the process of this. You're taking something away from me. You know what I mean? Something you said a few minutes ago. One of the, made me want to ask you about the support systems that are in place, so that young men and young women, of course, as well, get the whatever you want to call it, education training that they actually need to learn these coping skills.

00;23;25;01 - 00;23;38;21

Matt Howlett

And you're more familiar with the support systems that are in place. Can you speak to that a little bit? Like, do you see them as existing but somewhat broken? Is there more that's required there to to provide the support that's needed?

00;23;38;24 - 00;24;01;07

Jason Walsh

Yeah. First, before I answer that, I want to mention about your comment about feeling sadness and churn. You know how men mostly respond with anger or they feel angry. The mentor that I mentioned before, he was, you know, my personal mentor, he hosted he was a doctor in psychotherapy as well. And I remember growing up and dealing with some of my emotional issues.

00;24;01;09 - 00;24;24;10

Jason Walsh

What he told me, something that I always remembered was that almost every single emotion, when you don't know how to deal with it, turns into anger. So I don't know how well that translates to these days. But he said, you know, almost every emotion, whether it's like overt happiness, if you don't know how to deal with it and you don't know how to put it forward, eventually that's going to come out as anger.

00;24;24;10 - 00;24;43;17

Jason Walsh

And, I don't know, anyway, that was something that made me interested. But with regards to what's out there for people, there are tons of resources out there for people to help them with their mental health and to help them learn how to cope and develop things. There are a lot of government to offer support systems out there.

00;24;43;19 - 00;25;14;12

Jason Walsh

If you were to go on, there's a website called Bridge the Gap with two piece, spelled like in the hat. Okay. The gap, that provides tons of supports for young people. There are tons of supports out there. It's just reaching out for them, I think is a difficult thing for people to do. And obviously we need more and we need to develop more supports and to kind of reach people at a grassroots level and where they are, because what we probably know is that people aren't coming to us to reach out for these supports.

00;25;14;12 - 00;25;30;27

Jason Walsh

You know, if you present them in front of them or in the school system, then, you know, they're probably more likely to to be connected with them. But there are supports out there, like I said, that bridge the gap. There's our mental health crisis line that anyone can avail of at any point in time. And that's just here in town.

00;25;30;27 - 00;25;54;24

Jason Walsh

I believe that most places throughout our country have those support systems, but there is obviously something missing in regards to how people are accessing them, you know, so I don't think young people specifically or men who are, you know, my age, 40 or more, they're not reaching out for these things. You know, maybe if they present themselves in front of them, they might have a look at that and say, oh, maybe I need it.

00;25;54;24 - 00;26;07;07

Jason Walsh

But a lot of times they're not reaching out. And so we need to find a way. If there's something broken with relation to this, I think it's finding a way to reach them where they are in the progress. Yeah.

00;26;07;07 - 00;26;12;19

Matt Howlett

So they're not reaching out, but they're also probably not, to be more specific, not reaching out early enough.

00;26;12;21 - 00;26;13;20

Jason Walsh

100%. Yeah.

00;26;13;26 - 00;26;44;11

Matt Howlett

Right. Because like again with that episode with Cortez, the conversation we had there is that things just kind of, you know, they snowball has this big domino effect where you, you know, you have some feelings and some emotions that aren't being processed. And like you said, you know, they can often go to towards anger, especially for men. But I would imagine over a period of, say, ten years of, you know, these maladaptive patterns and behaviors is just develops into a, well, a situation where they end up running into, you know, law enforcement.

00;26;44;13 - 00;27;02;22

Jason Walsh

That's right. Absolutely. Yeah, yeah. And, just earlier today, I had my kids down to Barron Park, were down there playing around and yep, having one of my kids ask me, you know, have you ever had to shoot your gun? And and so while I shoot it sometimes at training, you know, there never had to thankfully, I've never had to shoot my gun at somebody.

00;27;02;24 - 00;27;36;23

Jason Walsh

Yeah. And he said, you know, do you know anybody who has? And I said, yeah, I do, unfortunately. And and then it led to a question of like, why would somebody do something that cause, police officer to fire the gun and, and, you know, so we just had this cool conversation, me and my son, about how we, when we don't learn how to cope with our emotions and cope with life's issues, that sometimes we can justify very dangerous or very poor decisions based on the fact that we, you know, we've had bad experiences in the past.

00;27;36;23 - 00;28;07;29

Jason Walsh

And so that led to a conversation about how someone can justify going into the store and robbing it because they feel like they need money or they deserve something. Right. And that's, that's a maladaptive, process. And it's not something that's helpful to that person, but they've learned to justify it. And so when a young person, it's early intervention is able to learn to cope with emotions, able to learn how to develop those skills early, then they're going to make better decisions in life.

00;28;07;29 - 00;28;21;13

Jason Walsh

And I really think early intervention is the best possible option for people. But we still need to learn how to reach out the young to people who are 40 plus years old, because it's not their fault. They never had that. Those opportunities. Yeah. You know.

00;28;21;15 - 00;28;42;03

Matt Howlett

Yeah, yeah, I, I find that one of the biggest issues is the not reaching out aspect because, you know, I, I asked about the support systems because I know you're definitely more familiar than I am, but I've lived in a couple different places and that goes well aware that these support systems generally exist just about everywhere. Some are better than others, obviously.

00;28;42;03 - 00;29;02;04

Matt Howlett

Some are, you know, lacking in funding and not quite able to do the job that they need to do and whatever. But it seems to be the biggest challenge is people not reaching out. And again, especially men, we don't want to. Again, it goes back to the conversation about, you know, the lack of emotional vocabulary and the willingness to to talk about feelings and emotions.

00;29;02;06 - 00;29;12;27

Matt Howlett

You know, I don't I don't want to go to a therapist because I'm admitting that I'm weak or I'm admitting that I'm struggling or I'm admitting that I haven't figured something out quite yet.

00;29;13;00 - 00;29;50;27

Jason Walsh

Yeah, right. I think that, you know, we're starting to get to a point in society where we're getting away from that mindset. We've probably got a long way to go yet. But for the most part, even in the policing world, people are more open to talking, more open to reaching out. When I facilitate some of our, you know, critical incident stress management debriefings, we have seen more people coming to those over the last couple of years and then used to go because even within our world, it was one of those things that just like shake it off and move on, move on to the next call.

00;29;51;00 - 00;30;17;04

Jason Walsh

But now we see more people becoming involved in them, labeling their emotions, recognizing the impact of that trauma. And so I think it's a slow trickle down effect. But we are as long as we continue on this trajectory and we continue to push mental health and talking about our well-being because our well-being, like Cortez was saying in your conversation last, last episode that it's, you know, it's much more than just mental.

00;30;17;04 - 00;30;24;07

Jason Walsh

It's your physical, your mental, your emotional, your your spiritual well-being. All those things are important. And we can't ignore either one of them.

00;30;24;10 - 00;30;39;05

Matt Howlett

Yeah, yeah. We've got to take a holistic approach to ourselves, for sure, and recognize that everything is connected and everything has a level of importance that we don't often, you know, get it? But I was just about to ask you something, and it totally left my brain.

00;30;39;07 - 00;30;40;02

Jason Walsh

And it'll come back.

00;30;40;03 - 00;30;43;11

Matt Howlett

It'll come back. It doesn't always come back, Jason.

00;30;43;14 - 00;30;46;22

Jason Walsh

That we're at that age. Right?

00;30;46;24 - 00;30;50;13

Jason Walsh

Yeah, we're at that age.

00;30;50;15 - 00;31;12;20

Matt Howlett

I oh, this is what it was. I can think of, sadly, only one story, of someone that I've worked with, in child and youth care and even someone that I've just kind of come across that that's, you know, their their life is not exactly the way that they would want it. And maybe they don't see it that way at the moment.

00;31;12;20 - 00;31;32;19

Matt Howlett

But, you know, it's they're not making great choices. They're they're in a rough spot. I can think of one story, where those support systems that exist, really worked quite well. And I came across this person, you know, a few years later, I'm not sure exactly what the timeline was, but at least I want to say five years.

00;31;32;22 - 00;31;50;23

Matt Howlett

And, things had taken a turn for the better, making good decisions. And I never had the chance to have a conversation with this person and see, like, because I'd love to interview them right now. To be honest, I'd love to see. So what exactly worked for you? Was it the fact that you you finally did ask someone for help?

00;31;50;26 - 00;32;10;17

Matt Howlett

Or was it all the little bits of lessons, all the times that people tried to help you out? Something stuck along the way and you just started making better decisions? Is there a story, obviously anonymously, that you can share where you know it does work? When someone reaches out or when someone is is approached with an offer for help?

00;32;10;19 - 00;32;35;07

Jason Walsh

Yeah, I think just about always it works in some capacity. I think what we need to recognize is how our perception of success dictates how we how we view that person and how it works. So by example, for some people that we worked with in the in the youth care setting and the group home setting, just not being arrested for them was success.

00;32;35;07 - 00;32;45;28

Jason Walsh

And so I have encountered young, young people that I used to work with. They're not young people anymore. You know, it was almost 20 years ago that I was working in that, that field, which sounds crazy.

00;32;45;28 - 00;32;46;24

Matt Howlett

Yeah, it's been a while, and.

00;32;46;24 - 00;32;47;13

Jason Walsh

It just.

00;32;47;14 - 00;32;49;01

Matt Howlett

Goes, we're going to skip over that. Keep going.

00;32;49;01 - 00;33;16;03

Jason Walsh

We're going to skip ahead. Yeah. So I've encountered people who I worked with when they were in group homes, and they were 12, 13 years old, huge, you know, mental health issues, no coping, violence coming out of them in every corner. And I've responded to calls where they've been there, and we see each other when we walk into the door and immediately there's this connection and they look and then they say, Jason, I didn't know you're doing this.

00;33;16;04 - 00;33;36;13

Jason Walsh

I'm like, how they don't match like you. And you know, and we'll just talk and and immediately they de-escalate things because we've, we've established, a connection already. Yeah. But some of those people, there's some now that I still go out for coffee with every now and then. I've been at his wedding at is, Oh, that's a crazy diaper party for his kid.

00;33;36;19 - 00;33;59;09

Jason Walsh

You know, there's another one that I, I see on a regular basis as we're as we're walking around. He lives in the downtown area. Every time I see him, I stop and say hello to him. I've got people who have gone into policing themselves. I know, at least one person who, you know, I worked with in the residential group home setting who is, you know, gone into policing himself.

00;33;59;11 - 00;34;31;03

Jason Walsh

You know, so there's tons of success stories. We don't often see them because if you don't hear about the success stories a whole lot, and maybe that's part of the issue as well. Maybe we focus a little bit too much on the negative things that people are doing and experiencing, and not enough on the positive things, because statistically, it's probably less likely that in the eyes of, you know, said someone educated that these young people we work with will be quote unquote successful because they're not going to have university degrees or they're not going to have a six figure job.

00;34;31;05 - 00;35;04;16

Jason Walsh

But a lot of them success is just not being arrested and not being a drug addict. Yeah. Like that's that's success for those people. Yeah. And yeah. So sometimes I think that maybe we need to focus on on some of those things. But I have seen firsthand success for many of these people. And when I when I look at them and I think, what did that for them, there was some determination within them that they wanted to be successful, but also they had at least one good person around them who was able to help them move forward and make good decisions.

00;35;04;16 - 00;35;20;27

Jason Walsh

It's got to be so much tougher for someone who doesn't even have that. You know, they're already dealing with their own problems and then they have to go home to two parents who are drug addicts or, you know, alcoholics or whatever like that. That's got to be the real struggle for people, I think.

00;35;21;02 - 00;35;47;17

Matt Howlett

Yeah, I, I have a hard time putting myself in that position, because I feel that I grew up primarily without a male role model. And I shared a little bit of that story in the first episode where I kind of introduced myself and the reason behind the podcast and how it all came to me. But, you know, my father was in the picture, but he really didn't have what he needed in order to really fulfill that role for me.

00;35;47;18 - 00;36;08;02

Matt Howlett

You know what I mean? You know, he he didn't finish high school. His father died when he was quite young and had a very big family, I believe was 16 or 17 kids. And I felt like I kind of grew up, you know, getting getting bits and pieces from the different people in my life. And, but, I'm, I'm glad to hear of your story of, Chaplin.

00;36;08;04 - 00;36;29;13

Matt Howlett

00;36;29;13 - 00;36;52;23

Matt Howlett

Dennis. So there's people that have been there and been helpful and supportive, played those roles for, you know, considerable amounts of time. But I can't imagine I can't imagine what it would be like because like I said, I did three years with you in youth care, and I have a very good memory of a lot of those young men that we worked with and seeing bits and pieces of their lives and just being like, wow.

00;36;52;25 - 00;37;12;10

Matt Howlett

Like I remember having conversations with some of them. McMahon I, I can't really put myself in your shoes. You know, my experiences is quite different, but that sounds ridiculously challenging. And that, you know, I, I felt, I think sometimes ill equipped really, or at least that I wanted to be able to do more and couldn't because I was just one person, you know what I mean?

00;37;12;10 - 00;37;20;03

Matt Howlett

There was so much about their lives that really needed a little bit more support, but I only saw them, you know what I mean? Every once in a while or whatever it was.

00;37;20;03 - 00;37;47;13

Jason Walsh

And. Yeah. And, you know, and that's that's the important part of it too, is like, we can't fix everything. We can't make everything perfect, you know? But we can support somebody in small ways. Yeah. And I think those small supports make a big difference. One of those, one of the people that I still deal with now, I don't know why I thought about this, but, one of the people I still see now on a regular basis, and I stop and talk to him all the time, his whole family.

00;37;47;13 - 00;38;09;27

Jason Walsh

We have great conversations. If I'm working, we'll sit down and have a coffee. But I remember as a kid when he was in the group home setting with me, I like country music. Don't hold it against me. But I was listening to, the country song while we were driving, and the song was, I can't remember the exact lyrics, but it said something along the lines of, if you're going through hell, keep on moving, don't slow down.

00;38;10;00 - 00;38;22;21

Jason Walsh

If you're scared, don't show it. You might get out before the devil knows you're there or something like that. All right. And so I played this whole song for the for the kid, and he just bowed. He bawled his eyes out, and I just thought, like he was going to make fun of me for listening to this country song.

00;38;22;22 - 00;38;48;29

Jason Walsh

Right? But for him, it was about the fact that he's going through hell and there's a way out of this hell, and I might make my way out of this hell at some point. And I remember thinking how powerful is that? And yeah, this, this stupid country song is making an impact on him. And then that opened up an opportunity for us to have a conversation about what it's like to go through hell and to be in hell, and the fact that it's not going to last forever and it's not going to determine your destiny.

00;38;49;01 - 00;39;08;26

Jason Walsh

You're in charge of that. Not not what the pastor has given you, you know? Yeah. And so now we still have a great relationship, and that's, again, almost 20 years later, you know? So, yeah. Yeah. So taking those little moments to just be a part of somebody's life and support them in small ways is huge. And again, I don't know where that story came in my mind, but it just did.

00;39;08;26 - 00;39;27;17

Matt Howlett

So yeah. No. That's great. I'm glad you share that. I'm curious, what your experience has been like now as a, as a father to boys. And obviously, you know, you put a lot of value and importance in, in learning these skills. What does that look like now with the boys?

00;39;27;19 - 00;39;55;03

Jason Walsh

It's a challenge, you know, it really is because you want to let them be boys. You want to let them play. You want to let them learn things at the same time, my goal is to be that supportive father for them and, teach them about life lessons. And I think the main things that I want to teach my boys is not necessarily academic based, because I think that will come and develop as, you know, they become younger men.

00;39;55;06 - 00;40;24;12

Jason Walsh

But I want to teach them how to be good people. Yeah. And and do good things and be kind and emotional regulation and develop good coping skills. And those kind of patterns. Those are the most important things to me to teach my boys. You know, obviously reading, writing, right to take our stuff is important, right? But you won't get anywhere with that stuff if you don't have emotional regulation 100.

00;40;24;15 - 00;40;39;27

Jason Walsh

If you don't know how to control your your anger or your urges, you know, if you don't know how to talk to people or be around people, so that pro-social development is what I really trying to focus on with my boys. Yeah. And and we'll see where it goes. You know.

00;40;40;00 - 00;41;20;11

Matt Howlett

Yeah. I want to retract my, my comment just for some reason that I, I think a knee jerk reaction said 100%. But you know what? Like, I think one of the biggest problems, within our society is that folks without those abilities actually do get somewhere, you know, get in and get into, positions of power because of their, you know, their academic skills of their or maybe even just, like, social skills, like for their very charming or their their ability to, you know, build new connections or whatever, but they don't ultimately have that self-knowledge that that ability to, you know, really know who they are and manage their manage themselves appropriately, manage your thoughts,

00;41;20;11 - 00;41;40;13

Matt Howlett

feelings and emotions so that they can actually do work that is going to impact more than maybe just their smaller circle. Because I was coming to mind for me is, a few stories specific to, to this area, to Saint John's and to Newfoundland, because I've been away for a while, recently, you know, moved home about two years ago now.

00;41;40;13 - 00;42;00;07

Matt Howlett

And, you know, my fiancé, Dana, has lived here for a much longer time than me and is more aware of, say, like the political landscape here. So we get in those conversations often, and I hear stories of things, you know, things that have gone down and, just different situations, like there's so many buildings downtown that are closed now.

00;42;00;07 - 00;42;00;25

Jason Walsh

Oh my God.

00;42;00;25 - 00;42;19;20

Matt Howlett

Yeah, yeah. And that's just one example of what I'm trying to get out here is, you know, so many buildings downtown that are closed. Rent is extremely high, you know what I mean? And some of them aren't even being rented out, like, they're not available for rent. They want them to stay closed. And I'm just like, but what exactly is going on there that is keeping you know what I mean?

00;42;19;20 - 00;42;33;21

Matt Howlett

Because like, it it messes up tourism for one. Like you're going downtown, you're seeing all these shops closed, like, what the heck is going on down here? Right? It gives it cuts opportunities for entrepreneurs like Momo's ice cream that's been empty now. For how long.

00;42;33;23 - 00;42;38;26

Jason Walsh

For so sad. My boys were. My boys were devastated when that place closed because they love to go there, you know? Yeah.

00;42;38;26 - 00;42;55;27

Matt Howlett

But, just the point that I'm taking a long time to get out here is that I feel like, you know, despite the fact that I said 100%, I agree with you that it takes, you know, a lot more than just, say, academic skills to get somewhere in life. I feel like, you know what, people do get somewhere in life with just that.

00;42;55;29 - 00;43;02;24

Matt Howlett

And then they get into these positions of power and they're making decisions for the wrong reasons. Yeah, you know what I mean?

00;43;02;26 - 00;43;21;03

Jason Walsh

Yeah. Selfish decisions probably. And and if you're not. Yeah. And and other people and those that pro-social development then yeah you're going to make selfish decisions and not worry about the community at large. You know, you're you're going to worry about yourself and what probably lines your own pockets or whatnot. Yeah, I think that's, that's, that's the most important for me.

00;43;21;03 - 00;43;38;23

Jason Walsh

I want to I want to I want to grow good people, you know? And so hopefully that's what I end up doing. When, when my grandmother died many, many moons ago, that the last thing she said to me was, you be good. I said, okay, I'll, I'll I'll try. You know, you be good, you be good.

00;43;38;28 - 00;43;48;06

Jason Walsh

And that was as simple as that. And, and I remember thinking like how powerful. It's like funny, but it's powerful at the same time. I felt like, just be good. That's that's all I want from people. And that's what I want for my boys, you know?

00;43;48;07 - 00;43;51;24

Matt Howlett

That's fantastic. But that's also such a nan comment such as man.

00;43;51;27 - 00;43;52;28

Jason Walsh

Coming, Newfoundland.

00;43;52;28 - 00;43;53;21

Matt Howlett

May you.

00;43;53;21 - 00;43;54;22

Jason Walsh

Be, you be good.

00;43;54;22 - 00;43;58;27

Matt Howlett

Now you lost weight. If you ain't, you got nothing.

00;43;59;00 - 00;44;03;19

Jason Walsh

Oh no, they never say that to me. That always tell me is getting junky right.

00;44;03;22 - 00;44;07;22

Matt Howlett

That's amazing. And that was legitimately her last words. One of the last things she said to.

00;44;07;24 - 00;44;08;25

Jason Walsh

Do it to me. Yeah.

00;44;08;25 - 00;44;16;01

Matt Howlett

Yeah. To you. Yeah. You be good. That's that's what I call the podcast. You be good with Jason. What about when you call.

00;44;16;01 - 00;44;18;10

Jason Walsh

It whatever you want? Yeah, yeah.

00;44;18;12 - 00;44;33;12

Matt Howlett

Well, one last thing, man. I'd love to just hear about, like, on a on a day to day basis. What, what are the things that you do, to, to keep yourself in check this to stay sane, to stay healthy, to stay happy, to to bring, you know, your best self to work.

00;44;33;12 - 00;45;07;01

Jason Walsh

Well, I think for me personally, the I try not to bring work home sure, as much as possible. There are times, especially now, I think my current position is and child abuse and sexual assault unit. So that's something that's very difficult not to bring home. So when I investigate a file that is so tragic and is causing someone's life to be turned completely upside down by a sexual assault or child abuse situation, that's hard not to bring home, especially when I see my young boys and I encounter them.

00;45;07;04 - 00;45;17;15

Jason Walsh

But I, I really do try to have a clear division between my work life and my home life. I think that for me is is a high priority. I.

00;45;17;17 - 00;45;27;11

Matt Howlett

I, I just want to jump in real quick. So practically, how do you implement that? Like are you having conversations with colleagues with other officers. You know, you're doing the the EAP, is that right? Is that the.

00;45;27;15 - 00;45;50;29

Jason Walsh

Yeah. Yeah. So and so those are options for me. It's just, a little bit of self-talk. So a lot of time I'm driving on the way home, I've got that few minutes of drive on the way home. And my goal is by the time I get home to have those emotional intrusions, all thoughts that are there based on what I'm experiencing at work, to be set aside as much as possible.

00;45;51;02 - 00;46;14;15

Jason Walsh

No, they're going to flare back up when I get home. It's possible. But, positive self-talk for me has has been a way to kind of cope with that. You know? So that's one of my goals that when it comes to fitness and I've never been super physically fit, I've never been this, you know, great athlete. Okay. Practicing some physical fitness is very important to me as well.

00;46;14;15 - 00;46;32;18

Jason Walsh

I find that helps clear my head. There's times when my wife will look at me and and to recognize that I'm twisted. I'm, you know, a little bit frustrated or I'm upset and you're looking me so sad to say. Jason, go down to the basement for a bit. Okay? That's good. I'm so glad that she recognizes that, because sometimes I don't.

00;46;32;18 - 00;46;55;07

Jason Walsh

And then by the time I do a a little half hour workout session, I come up, I feel better. Yeah. And I think there's something to that. I think nobody I don't expect great physical fitness from anybody, but I think that practicing some physical fitness is important for people with regards to their mental health, whether it's a quick walk or a quick run or go on a rower or do whatever, something simple, yeah, I think is important.

00;46;55;07 - 00;47;15;22

Jason Walsh

And again, spending time with my family. So I have to prioritize that and just time with my kids without looking at Instagram or Facebook, right? Or staring at my phone every five seconds when I'm out with my kids, the only time I've taken out my phone is to take a picture of them while they're, you know, doing something cute.

00;47;15;25 - 00;47;36;28

Jason Walsh

That's about it. And I'll share that with some family and friends and occasionally, Instagram or Facebook. Yeah. The goal is for me to stay away from that. Another thing that I've done for myself personally is I don't look at any media when I'm not at work. So, news media in particular. Not that there's anything wrong with news media.

00;47;36;28 - 00;47;57;07

Jason Walsh

They're they're fulfilling a role in society. They're they're doing their job, I guess, to a certain point. But I found that I live the media, you know, as a police officer, I see that I'm part of that on a regular basis. And when I'm looking at that when I get home, I find that makes my mental health even more challenging.

00;47;57;07 - 00;48;16;15

Jason Walsh

Yeah, because I'm thinking about the officers that respond to that. That is a story, correct? You know, what else is going on behind the scenes? And this is this is missing stuff. And then it just it floods my mind with things. So I intentionally stay away from all news media while I'm not working and try to limit social media.

00;48;16;15 - 00;48;25;05

Jason Walsh

I think that's important. Do a bit of physical fitness, spend time with my family, and try to kind of balance that work life, home life as much as possible.

00;48;25;09 - 00;48;43;14

Matt Howlett

Yeah, I asked because I knew it would be answers just like that. Foundational things that I think everybody, I mean, maybe outside of the social media cut off, I absolutely get that for your situation because you're you're living in 100%, especially when it's local. Yeah, but I mean, but everything else there, I mean, that's that's foundational stuff, you know what I mean?

00;48;43;17 - 00;49;12;00

Matt Howlett

I think all men need to realize the connection between, their, their mental health and their physical health. That's that's huge. And it doesn't have to be, you know, a five day a week, one hour long workout session each time type thing. But I find myself saying to guys often that, you know, when the when the emotions are building, when, you know, the stress of life is getting bigger, your, focus, your time put into processing your energy, put into processing that has to also increase.

00;49;12;02 - 00;49;31;06

Matt Howlett

And sometimes that requires physical exertion. I know for me, I just had a conversation with a personal trainer. So for me, like, if I'm not lifting heavy weight once in a while, I don't really get it all out of me. And, like, you know, I can do, like a, like, a high intensity type of workout, where my heart rate's up.

00;49;31;06 - 00;49;53;02

Matt Howlett

But unless I'm lifting something that, you know, is close to your max, you know, I mean, we'll see that that's what really, like, exhausts me, gets it out of me. And I usually feel the best after something heavy like that. But that being said, some it's foundational to have some type of physical exercises, physical exercise rather. And you have a basement that your wife sent you to.

00;49;53;02 - 00;50;12;09

Jason Walsh

That's right. I got she sends me through. Yeah. I got my little gym set up there. I tell my friend to call a dad bod fitness center, and, stuff. It's a good spot, you know? Yeah, but it's. I need it, you know? And I need to push through something, so I need to. I need to reach a point where I kind of want to quit a little bit and then push through.

00;50;12;10 - 00;50;29;14

Jason Walsh

Yeah, I'm in a workout. And so that's that's what I try to push myself to do. And and it's very helpful. I would recommend anyone to do it. It's like we were saying earlier, it's like you said with Cortez in your conversation. It's it's not just mental health. It's not just physical health. It's not just spiritual or emotional health.

00;50;29;14 - 00;50;37;28

Jason Walsh

It's it's a balance of all those things. And so if you're leaning too far on one side, then you're going to impact the other. And you know, that's what we need to try to do. Find that balance, right?

00;50;37;28 - 00;50;58;00

Matt Howlett

Yeah. Yeah I think that's foundational, man. Well, Jason, I have never come across you, in your role as an RNC officer. And hopefully I may not look like you're you're watching for me. Yeah. I'm sure. Yeah. Shout out to my brother who works with you. Who did try to pull me over once, but I think that was just a power move.

00;50;58;02 - 00;50;58;21

Jason Walsh

Yeah, since.

00;50;58;26 - 00;51;11;23

Matt Howlett

He could, so he did. Yeah, but, dude, I always appreciated having you, knowing you. Having you as a friend. I'm sure you're a fantastic, police officer. You were a great, as a youth, youth care worker.

00;51;11;26 - 00;51;15;07

Jason Walsh

And I really tried to make a difference there, you know? And that's. You most.

00;51;15;07 - 00;51;16;06

Matt Howlett

Definitely did.

00;51;16;08 - 00;51;32;20

Jason Walsh

I try to do it in policing as well. You know, it's, I'm no different than anybody else in my community, you know, but by the grace of God or whatever. Yeah, I ended up in this position, and I got some opportunities in life that some other people didn't. And I can never forget that and know.

00;51;32;25 - 00;51;35;11

Jason Walsh

But I'm not above anybody in my community.

00;51;35;13 - 00;51;55;27

Matt Howlett

Yeah. And I'm not praising you up just because you're on the podcast. I mean, I appreciate authenticity. I appreciate people who are able to bring themselves to the role. And I felt like, I felt like I knew you after working with you only a short while, and you're the same guy now that you were back then. And it's it's good to know that you're on the force.

00;51;55;29 - 00;51;58;19

Jason Walsh

Good man. I'm glad to hear that.

00;51;58;21 - 00;52;20;00

Matt Howlett

Thank you for listening. I hope you found some value in this episode. If you have, be sure to share the podcast with a friend and subscribe wherever you get your podcasts. You can find the akkeri on socials at the akkeri and on the web at the akkeri dot com.