BtG presents two featured photographers, Jamal "Cheeba" David (@cheebaarchive) and DJ Carr (@djcarrr), whose work will be on display at Farmhouse Table Midtown (@farmhousetablemidtown) in downtown Rochester through the end of October.

We talk to Cheeba about his film practice, his travel work across Europe, and the photo book he brings to share. DJ shares about his documentary portraits, his Buffalo community projects, and his experiments with print transfer and screen printing. We discuss the craft of shooting film, the care and intent it requires, and how physical prints and books change how people see images.

The opening is October 2 from 6pm - 8pm at Farmhouse Table Midtown, and defintiely check out Cheeba and DJ online!

Mentioned in this episode:

Joe Bean Roasters

Visit joebeanroasters.com to get fresh roasted specialty coffee either by the bag or with a Perpetual Joy subscription!

Getting Real with Bossy: For Women Who Own Business

Check out Getting Real with Bossy: For Women Who Own Business on Lunchador! https://feeds.captivate.fm/gettingrealwithbossy/

It’s A Lot

Check out It’s A Lot on Lunchador! https://feeds.captivate.fm/itsalot/

Foreign.

There is my cue.

Welcome to another episode of the behind the Glass podcast, where we, you know, jump into a deep dive with our featured artists.

This month is a little different.

Kind of going back to our old format just a bit, interviewing our featured guests prior to their opening.

So going back to old school in a couple of ways.

It's a Sunday morning, you know, and it's fall, and it's a nice little crisp air.

There's my cue.

On a Sunday morning.

Yeah, I mean, you show up on a Sunday morning.

Like, I remember the first time y' all showed up.

Yeah, I think it was nine o' clock on a Sunday morning.

No, it was earlier.

It was eight with.

No.

And I didn't know we were recording.

And we did it.

It was great.

It was like gangbusters.

Everybody walked up and I didn't know we were recording that morning.

Like, all right, let's do it.

Let's do it.

Yeah.

It was 8am it was the Richard Colon special.

The early mornings, he's got like, no chill.

It's either 7am let's meet, or do you want to meet at midnight?

And it's like, dude, what happened to afternoon?

Yeah, exactly.

But we're happy to be back, know, for.

For another episode.

And I think the only thing that I'm missing is rich donuts for you.

Oh, man.

Yeah.

So I apologize.

Now.

Now I want to go there, but if I go now, it's going to be a disaster.

Yeah, So I apologize.

So busy.

So excited to.

To be back.

You know, as we get close to the end of the year here, the.

The two that are featured here were.

Were folks that I spoke to at the top of the year.

Back in April, we had a conversation.

Photo City was playing at the little organized by BTG alum and our very own Viv Rivers.

And it was kind of cool.

It was this really cool experience.

And I bump into both of them in the lobby.

I knew D.J.

For a bit.

I'd been following Chiba's work, and we somehow were in a photo in a Polaroid.

And then something else happened, and we were sitting next to each other, and it just kind of felt organic like that.

We were just kind of having conversation.

And then we went on a photo walk, because, you know, that's what we do in Rochester.

We walk and take photos, which is a beautiful thing.

And I think half the time we're not even taking photos, we're having conversation.

And those conversations.

By the time we circled back to the little it was in my mind that they should Both be featured together.

One I think you described, like, one of the fundamental things where you're out part of the community doing things that are interesting, going to events, participating.

This is.

That experience is.

It's a very.

It's an experience.

Only people that go out and do stuff that matters kind of know how that feels.

Where you can go most places and you're going to run into somebody you wanted to talk to, even if you didn't know you wanted to talk to them that day, it's going to happen because you're out doing stuff that's interesting.

And if everybody's out doing stuff that's interesting, well, you find the right people to talk to, especially when you've got your intentions in the right spot.

Yeah, for sure.

And, and I think we talk about this a lot.

It's not even in my online bios, like co curator, behind the glass.

Like, you know, it's a.

It's a thing.

I enjoy the title, I appreciate the title, I honor the title.

But sometimes I like to just be undercover.

I didn't even have the yellow Crocs on right.

Like, I just wanted to be low key.

I had, you know, I didn't even.

Know who you were when you walked in.

Yeah, it's weird.

People always like, wait, you own sneakers?

Like, yeah, man, yellow Crocs are a thing.

But, you know, I.

Sometimes I go out undercover when I wear sneakers.

It's, it's, it's even weird.

I was wearing a pair of Jordans like a week ago, and someone took a picture and they saw me.

And then people like, wait, you got J's?

I'm like, yeah, those are, those are my outside, like, you know, fancy occasion.

But it was cool to kind of have conversations with folks.

And I think the kind of linchpin of that, another BTG alum, you know, our very own Rudy is connected to both and, you know, kind of mentioned something and I was like, oh, I'm already, my mind's already churning.

And I think by the end of our time together, you know, we had shared phone numbers and, you know, we were locked in and I think I threw out a couple dates.

And, you know, now it's October.

It's felt like a lifetime ago, you know, telling someone in April, let's do something in October.

And then here we are.

Yeah.

So excited to have both of them on the show today.

And, you know, let's.

Let's get right into it.

So I want to go to Chiba first.

Jamal Chiba.

David, throw it out the government for you.

Where did.

Where did.

Where did Chiba start?

Like, the brand or, like, the name?

Yeah, the name.

So, like, you know.

Oh, that was just like.

It's like.

It's like a nickname, like, friends gave me, like, from, like, childhood.

Yeah, I just kept it, you know, like the brand, like, the worldwide thing.

It's like, you know, I travel a lot.

You know, it's, like, often.

So, like, you know, a lot of people, like, put worldwide Nate things, but, like, you know, they don't, like, travel.

So.

Yeah.

Yeah, I, like, kind of, like, live it, you know?

Yeah.

So I.

The one thing that I. I'll tell a funny story about, like, our original or how we interacted, like, at the little, like, you know, we're chilling, we're having a good time.

You share your photo book.

You know, we're all talking.

And you had DMed me, like, probably a week before maybe.

I think it was to the behind the glass account.

And it was like, hey, you know, how do I get featured?

And I was like, yeah, you know, we got some dates coming up.

You know, I'll hit you back.

And when we met you.

Huh?

Then I met you.

Yeah.

Yeah.

But it was funny because, like, we had interacted for, like, hours.

And Rudy.

You were talking to Rudy, and you were like, yeah, man, I'm thinking about doing.

I'm trying to do behind the glass, and I'm standing right there.

And he was like, yeah, this guy Q, like, he had messaged me back and said, there might be some times.

And you were like.

And Rudy was like that Q.

And you point.

He was like, what?

Like, we've been chilling, like, this whole time.

And again, you know, it was just that, like, I felt it was more organic to go that way than, you know, oh, I'm this person we message.

Let's, you know, kind of hash it out.

But there was, like, this and not even this then.

But I think I saw Rudy Friday night and super excited about both of you being involved in the show.

And he says, man, that boy Chiba is hungry.

Yeah.

Yeah.

What?

Like, your drive is.

Is.

Feels like, you know, you want to get the.

Almost that worldwide, but right here in Rochester kind of bringing that vibe.

Yeah, I kind of, like, you know, like, when I travel, I get these pictures.

Like, I go to Europe.

Then, like, I bring the pictures back, and I want people like, either.

Like, I want to bring, like, the experience.

Like, I want them, like, experience, like, going there's.

Going there, like, the picture, like, come to life.

I'm saying, like, oh, he been, like, the Paris London, Switzerland, Italy.

I'm going there next year, by the way.

Then, like, yeah, just, like, great photos.

I want, like, my photos, like, come to life, like, more and more.

That's why I, like, always bring, like, the photo book.

Yeah.

It's like a portfolio.

Yeah.

Everybody see it?

It's like, portraits first, and then, like, they see the landscape or, like, they're traveling, like, oh, so you actually, like, go these places?

Like, yeah, I do.

All right, so.

So when you were starting to.

When you were traveling for the first time, you know.

You know, maybe it was inside the country, Maybe it was somewhere else.

Yeah.

What was your mindset when you were traveling for the first time?

Was it.

Was it scary?

Was it exciting?

How.

How did you.

How did you feel going into traveling for the first time?

I imagine that was a big jump.

Yeah.

So my first trip, like, I put together was la.

I was, like, the beginning.

I was like, all right, we gonna go to la.

I was going, like, on, like, some, like, a birthday trip.

Went there.

I, like, got, like, some photos.

As a matter of fact, no.

I hired, like, a film photographer there.

Shout out to Elin from California.

You know what I'm saying?

I heard him there then he was, like, telling me about film.

I'm like, all right, LA was cool.

And it was one day, I was just, like, just sitting there, like, go to Europe.

Went to Europe.

So it was from LA to Europe with, like, yeah, like, you go to.

La, so it's like.

Like, you're going for a birthday, and then you're like, oh, travel.

Like, yeah, what is that?

Like, it's like first date to marriage.

Right?

So, like, where were you.

Where were you in your life when you got that?

Like, okay, travel, you know, going that way.

It's a different world from here, right?

We have.

There's similar.

There's, you know, problems that are similar.

There's, you know, joys that are similar, but there's a lot of big differences.

So where.

Where were you in your.

Where were you in your life at that time?

Where that light bulb clicked?

Like, were you.

Did you know yourself well?

Was this, like.

Oh, this Just, like, this sparked something interesting?

I know myself, like, kind of well, but I was like, what can I do more?

Like, how can I have to.

Annie?

And I was like, let's go to Paris.

Was that.

Was that a longing thing?

I know for me, it was like, when I started writing, when I started, you know, doing restaurant reviews in the newspaper, when I started doing the podcast was me trying to find what was going to make me feel complete, like I'm doing something that.

That I'm doing something that matters.

Like where.

Where was that?

Where were you on that kind of side of things?

I was like, I feel like if I travel more, I can get, like, my story out better.

Yeah.

Like, so, like, I went to Paris, like, the first time, like, that was my first time in Europe, like, alone.

I went to Paris and it's jarring, right?

Like, it's.

It's a completely different.

Way different.

It's a completely different thing.

Like how, like, that jarring thing I found was very interesting when I went for the first time.

Oh, you went to Paris?

I didn't do Paris.

We did Italy.

But it was.

It's a certain kind of jarring.

Once I got past, it was very comfortable.

But yeah, I was initially.

It's very jarring.

And it takes a minute to rewrite.

Hey, I'm.

I am not.

I am an outsider here.

Yeah.

And it's very different.

Yeah, that's how I felt.

Like, when I went to Paris, I was like, I got.

Now started then, like, the day like, I got there, I was like, oh, this is like, different.

It's like different language, different people.

Like, is just totally different.

And I was like, I kind of like went there, like, to get like, out of my shell because I always, like, wanted to travel, like, the world.

Yeah.

So I had like this film camera, point and shoot.

I was like, I might just try it out there.

And like, I was there for like a week.

I was just like, taking photos.

Then, like, I came back and like, I developed them.

I was like, oh, we can like, I could just do this more.

And I was like, that's how like, it started.

Like, the Paris trip really started, like the worldwide thing, basically.

Yeah.

Like, what year was that?

So we was like, kind of still like, in covet times.

Yeah.

So I. I was like, I'm not gonna, like, covet stop me.

You know what I'm saying?

Like, yeah, you know, I didn't like, after Paris, like, I sat there, like, after the Paris trials.

Like, it was like, mind boggling.

Like, I went to Paris, I went like, somewhere else.

It didn't.

Like, I got a friend that's there.

Like, he was like, based there.

He was like, in the military.

He's from here, but he was like, based there.

And like, we connected like, with a friend.

And then when I went there, it didn't like, even more like film photos.

It Was like, so crazy.

That was.

It didn't like, it just went from up.

They were like, London, Amsterdam, Switzerland.

And then next year, we in Italy.

Yeah.

So when you were there, kind of wondering, like, what was.

What was the.

What was like, the biggest lesson that you learned about how life was over there versus.

Versus here?

Life is like, well, like Europe.

Like, me personally, my experience I hear about, like, mine is like, business.

Like, it's like more like.

More like orientated, like, self.

Like, you know.

And then, like, the food is different.

Yeah, it's like, like just like the environment, like, the feeling you get there.

I tell, like, people like, all the time.

Like, if you go to Europe, like your first time in Europe, like, out the country is like, when on your ride to, like, the hotel, like, just look out the window.

Like, don't even go on your phone throughout the windows.

Like, you'll just like, have that shock.

Like.

Oh, it's different.

Yeah.

And the pace is different, too.

Way different.

Like, it's.

It's slower.

People are taking longer meals.

People are spending that time.

Yeah.

And like, it's.

Again, it's jarring.

And then you.

You slow down just a hair.

Anyone, like, say, like, it's like they, like, going like, on old times because, like, they still use, like, train stations and stuff.

I was like, like London, like the tube, like, train station.

I was like, my first time, like, in a train station.

So, like, just like, being there, like, just like adapting to, like, their world for like a week.

It was like, different.

Like, I would live, like, live in London because that was like my favorite trip so far.

It was like, yo, it was like, amazing.

I just like how like, they move.

Like, in Europe.

It's like, so, like, chilled and, like, laid back there.

Like, Europe, like, I call, like, Europe like my second home.

When you.

Cause you were taking film photos, were you doing anything digital when you were there?

Or was it like you were living in the moment?

Took these film photos, had no idea what they were gonna look like until you got back, or were you kind of doing a little bit of both?

It was only film.

The only time I did, like, digital was like, la.

And then like, a friend of mine's, Logan, he sold me, like, a film camera and I went to Paris with it.

And then, like, I was like, yeah, I gotta do film full time.

Like, digital is like.

I don't know.

Digital's like.

It's like, too easy for me.

Cause, like, film is like, always like a surprise.

Like, it's like so you think you never know.

Like, how it's gonna come out either good or, like, bad.

Even, like, the bad photos is, like, it got some good to it.

Yeah, Yeah.

I. I enjoy having that conversation with folks when they're like, oh, man, I took this bad photo and I can't look at it, you know, film.

I'm like, oh, but look at this.

Look at that.

Like, you always find that.

Yeah, it's, like, always texturing it.

Yeah.

Even like, the bad one, some people like, like, I like sending, like.

Like, clients.

Like, it was like they were like.

Was it, like, more.

It's like it was one, but it's, like, kind of blurry or like, some.

Like, some stuff like, oh, this one's like, this one is good as well.

And like, that.

That becomes, like, their favorite photo.

You know what I enjoy, because you had talked about how you bring your photo book and your shooting film.

It reminds me of, like, my grandmother's house.

Yeah.

My grandmother still has, like, photo albums from, like, decades of photo albums.

And the way she organized.

I always appreciate it because it would be.

The binder would have, like, on the outside of it.

The spine would have the year.

And then the events that happen in that book.

Yeah.

And then.

But it all be on the thing, the outside.

So you knew what book you were picking up.

And it have a number, number six.

And then you open it up, and then at the top of the pages, you know, it have these.

These different things.

And so I remember holding your.

Your photo book.

Like, you could say, yo, go check out my ig.

That's cool.

We can go scroll through.

But it's something about, like, sitting physical and having that physical.

And then knowing that, okay, these are making what.

What film?

Like, what.

What prompted that for you to have this photo book?

Yeah, I always wanted to make a photo book.

Like, the photo book is like, I always wanted to make.

But, like, I didn't, like, have enough, like, film photos yet.

Yeah.

So those photos, like, 20, 23 to, like, 25.

Yeah.

So I, like, just made it, like, year after year.

But I, like.

I didn't want, like, put it out.

So, like, I just want to make it, like, real nice.

So, like, the first one, like, the one you seen, that was like.

That was a fine.

Like, the first one, it was like, just like a template, like, show it around, like, friends and, like, family and stuff like that.

What you think about this?

Then I get, like, feedback.

And then, like, I was at a birthday dinner with my friend Zay Maverick.

He been, like, around the world.

He, like, took photos, like, Rihanna, like, celebs.

He was like, you got to, like, put, like, more photos in here.

Like, this is nice, but you could do better, basically.

So I'm like, all right.

I put more photos in it, and then I put it out, and it sold out in, like, four hours.

Yeah, that's love.

And then, like, yeah, every time I get, like, a read, I show people, like, the book.

I bring, like, every photo shoot.

Like, new clients and, like, stuff.

Like the models.

Like, this is a nice book.

Like, always get, like, new feedback, like, every time.

And then, like, the feedback, like, I get is like, all right, I'm gonna just use that for, like, the next book I make, you know?

Yeah.

You have a.

There's a line inside of your.

The bio that you sent over, and it says, you know, Jamal catches the greatest versions of people through film and makes the photos come to life.

Yeah, tell me about that.

So, like, when I sent that over, I was like, yeah, like, my photos, it's not like, photos like photography.

It's not like, just, like, photos to me, if that makes sense.

Like, it's like a life.

Like, I grew up in it.

Like, my grandfather, he worked in kodak for, like, 30, like, 40 years.

And then like, my uncle, he works at Kodak now for, like, 20 plus years.

So it's like my grandmother, like, my aunts, like, my mother always had, like, disposable cameras, like camcorders.

And, like, my grandfather, like, an office, like, downstairs, like, in the basement.

Like, his own office.

Like the old, like, compact computers, like, his work and stuff.

So, like, I always, like, inspired by that and, like, I don't know, like, if it's like, a calling or something.

I was like, I'm really, like, nice, like, at these photos.

So, like, I, like, try to, like, bring them to life.

So, like, when people see the photo, like, oh, like, I want you to take my photo.

Like, more and more photos.

Yeah.

So it's like.

It's like.

It's not like, just a photo.

It's like, it's art.

It's like my type of art.

Like, everybody has their own art, whether it's clothes, photos, whatever.

Like, photos.

Like my art, you know?

Yeah.

What's interesting about your photos, it's something that kind of gravitated me to your work is like, there's shoots, but it's everyday moments, and people are like.

It's like a lifestyle.

Yeah.

It's just.

They're not.

It's posed to a certain extent.

Like, Cause people are, like, looking at you or they're doing whatever.

People are being themselves.

That's what I try to get.

How do you get people to that point?

Like, you pulling out the.

And you're shooting 120, right?

So you got.

Yeah, I'm 120 now.

Yeah, yeah.

So you're pulling out this big body camera, and you know, like, how are people responding to that?

How they respond?

It's like, you know, I get, like, mixed reviews.

Like, certain people, they just used to digital.

Like, oh, like, say, like, for instance, like, oh, can we see the photos?

Like, nah, it's like film.

Oh, so you going, like, old school?

Like, yeah, kind of.

But it's like, once you get them back, like, I let them, like, eat that up.

I'm like, yeah, it's like, yeah, it's old school.

Once they get it back, it's like, oh, all right.

So, like, you really, like.

You good at it.

So I'm saying it's like.

And then they ask, like, did you edit them or something?

Like, nah, he's not edited.

It's like, that's how they came out.

And it was like, oh, okay.

So we.

I want to, like, work with you more and is like, that's the thing.

Like, I want to, like, surprise you.

Like, my photos, Like, a lot of.

And then, like, what you saying?

Like, how do you, like, get them?

Like, what you saying?

Like, personal.

Like, yeah, people are comfortable.

Like, you.

I can.

When I see your photos, I could feel that people are comfortable with you.

And that's not always.

That's not an easy thing to do.

Like, I personally.

Right.

My.

My personal style is if you look at me and take a photo, we're both uncomfort.

Like, I feel uncomfortable, like, taking a portrait.

However, I can get you on a candid all day long, and because I feel natural, you feel natural.

But there's something about your work where everyone feels comfortable in it, and that's not a.

Again, it's not an easy task.

So people are.

People feel relaxed, and then, you know, you do a lot of your BTs as well, so you can kind of see how relaxed you are.

Yeah, I try to, like, get them comfortable like, first.

Like, we talk about it, like, all right, so, like, how are you gonna do this shoot?

And then see, like, how you sound like people, like, yeah, I never did.

Like, some people, like, yeah, I never did, like, shoots before.

Or I'm like, yes, it's not like.

It's not, like, created.

Like, we're not, like, setting it up.

It's not like no big like budgets, like, you know, just come, like be comfortable.

Like just wear what you wear.

Then like I just tell them like, you know, just do you.

That's all it is for me.

Just do, do you and like post however you want and I give like some pointers.

Then like they get the photos by all right.

I get more comfortable.

Like shoot again and shoot again.

They get more comfortable.

I just want people to like be themselves or like be themselves and like get out like their shell at the same time, if that makes sense.

How much are you getting out of your shell when you do it?

I get out of my shell a lot.

Cause like, you know, like I'm really like to myself a lot.

So like me just getting out the house alone is like get out like my shell.

Like when I do like brand shoots or like shooting with somebody, like I never shot before, I kind of be like the icebreaker.

Because like if you're not going to talk to them, I'm just going to talk and like, you know, co create like everything and like I saw like there are like friendships and like clientele like built, you know.

Yeah, for sure.

So tell us about the work that you're going to bring.

You don't have to say specifically each of the pieces, but what is kind of your introduction to two folks that may not be familiar with your work?

This is, this will be, right, your first, first ever, first ever photo exhibit.

So you put out a book first, traveled the world first, right?

He just did.

He's like, he went from LA to Europe.

But this is the first time your work is.

Will be shown in, you know, an exhibit space.

So first of all, like, what does that feel like for you?

Um, it feels like an out of body experience is like this is like the first thing, like when I met you, it was like, yeah, my name is Q. I'm like, oh, all right.

So you was the guy behind like the thing.

I was like, all right, so I'm locked in.

I was excited.

Then like last week I was like, oh, it's about to happen.

It was like, I want to say nervous.

It's like, all right, so like it's time to get prepared, you know.

And like the photos I'm bringing is like some landscape and then like some like portraits.

You're going to see like a couple like landscape from like Europe.

And like my previous trip, I went to Oregon, Portland.

You're going to see some of that like just like some portraits like come to life, you know.

Yeah.

And I think The.

What do you like when, when the, the lights go off on Friday and people walk out of the.

The space, like, how do you want them to.

To feel about what they just saw?

I want them to see, like, all right, so, like, he's actually good.

Like, he's actually doing it, you know?

And like, he's like, the stuff he talks about, like, is a real thing.

Like, the worldwide thing is like, there's no gimmick.

That's all I'm trying to, like, give us no gimmick isn't like, you know, I'm taking photos there at the exhibit.

So it's like once you leave, you're like, all right, what is he doing with my photos?

Like, send them.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And it's.

I love that it's.

It's such a specific thing, right.

Like, that you don't want to be purely searching for external validation for your skills.

But when people that do the work see the work, like, you see it.

In person, like in life, like, it's in your face.

Yeah.

And they know what it takes to do that.

To me, that's the, that's the stuff that hits is when somebody that knows what it takes to do something.

Yeah.

Sees that you're not just saying the words.

You're doing the work.

Yeah.

And that stuff ends up meaning the most.

So I think we're doing.

We're going to take our.

Take our break and we're going to jump back in and kind of open things up after that.

Hold on.

We'll do your line and we'll be right back.

Oh, what a beautiful commercial break both on and off.

I enjoy those.

I feel relieved.

Yeah.

I think the.

Yeah.

Last episode we just went straight through 50 minutes.

That was wild.

So we have coming back with our.

Our second featured artist for the month of October.

Dj, how are you?

I'm good, man.

I'm glad to be out here.

Yeah.

I appreciate Rochester, like, first time I came out here, you know, I know you mentioned Rudy earlier.

Yeah.

But like, y' all always treated me like, you know, like I was famine and one of y'.

All.

So that kind of tees up the.

The intro.

You know, DJ is Buffalo based.

Buffalo's finest.

Yeah.

Buffalo's finest.

Right.

And.

But is in the 585 like nobody's business.

And, you know, I think the first person we've featured outside of.

But this has been like an ongoing conversation like, when can we get.

When can we get dj?

And I think that moment outside the little.

Was like the perfect moment to me.

Like, I was like, yeah, this makes sense.

You know, these guys, you know, we.

I often joke about, you know, how deep of a dive I do on people's Instagrams and just kind of see what they're doing.

And a very similar vibe in that you are capturing community, right?

Like, you're capturing the.

The people.

So when did photo start for you?

Man?

It's been a while now.

It started right when I graduated high school.

Yeah.

Is when I got my first camera.

So going into my freshman year of college, I had one.

Not with the purpose of saying I'm gonna be a photographer, be an artist, but, you know, my father had a 35 millimeter that all my baby pictures is on.

I use that camera today.

But it was just a reason.

I've always been a curious kid, and I'm a middle child, problem child.

So curiosity was always, always in the driver's seat with me.

So it kind of gave me a reason just to kind of analyze what was going, you know, what was going on around me.

I'm older, you know, I got the freedom being, you know, a college student now.

So that's where it started.

Yeah.

And I.

And, you know, you kind of say in your.

Your.

Your bio like, that this, like, wanting to do this documentary, like, inquiry kind of style of.

Of photography.

Like, what.

What made you curious?

Like, what was the.

What was it about what was happening around you that you wanted to.

To document?

Not necessarily, like, with the purpose of being a photographer, but documenting, like, things that are happening, whether you're at a party, hanging out with friends, doing whatever.

Yeah, I think it kind of grew initially.

It definitely was just for, you know, I'll bring my.

My camera on campus when I was at school and just kind of started documenting friends, family, anything really.

You know, how it is when you first get a camera, you just be.

You know, you snap whatever is in front of you.

So I think college and having that freedom to kind of move and do what I want, I always felt, you know, like I should document it.

I wanted to.

I was even doing, like, video stuff at that time, so just having a camera, working it.

But I think eventually, you know, once I started getting better and started doing some homework on previous photographers and like, you know, what the tool that I had really was and what it could do, I feel like that helped grow my curiosity, you know, trying to tell stories and finding different people and, you know, it was amazing me how the camera could get me in spaces that I Couldn't get myself into.

It's kind of like a key to doors that I couldn't unlock by myself.

So I think it just grew organically like that.

I hear that a lot.

And I.

And you call it the tool, right?

Like, I think that's the.

Often the.

The thing that people don't think about.

Like, it's a tool.

Like, it's also a weapon.

Right?

Like, it's, you know, it's many different things, but it does.

Like, it gets you in the space.

People see you have a camera.

Like, okay, this guy.

This person must be in business.

Or sometimes it starts a conversation like, oh, why do you have that camera?

Oh, can I take your portrait?

And kind of builds.

Builds from that.

Who were those.

Who was like a couple of those first photographers that you were like, oh, wait, like, I.

Their work is powerful and kind of made that start to make that.

That click for you or that switch.

Yeah, the first two, I would say Gordon Parks was the first and Shabazz was the second.

Oh, yeah.

So, you know, I do documentary, but, you know, my Lanes is kind of documentary.

I do some street.

And I love portraiture.

Too often I love them all for different reasons.

But, yeah, when you think about those two photographers and their ability to do it all, like, you look at.

Yeah, you look at Gordon Park's bag of, like, things that he was photographing and deep dives.

But then, you know, Jamal Shabazz is like, you know, documenting the crack epidemic and the city, but also, like, the beauty of people that are rising up from that and is still, like, very active today.

Like, and then goes back into his archives and then, you know.

Yeah, yeah.

And I think the.

The longevity of it is what attracted me to photography is something I feel like you can never master.

Everything, you know, I'm saying it's a.

It's a life game.

So once you, you know, that's.

I like the.

Just how deep it can go.

You know what I mean?

So.

And of course, I don't think people think about how, you know, like, Chiba said his.

He had family that worked at Kodak and that was kind of, you know, a driver and an influence for him.

Like, you know, I don't know if people think about everything outside of photography still contributes to how you see your upbringing.

You know, I had, I would say, parents that was on the stricter side.

So, you know, I was always forced, even when I was young, which was annoying when I was young, but to do things the right way the first time, pay attention to detail, you know, make sure that I'm representing, you know, the name that's attached to me in the right way.

So those things, I think as I got older, just naturally translate into my work.

And I think that's kind of given me an advantage on the way that I shoot, you know, to separate myself from.

From others.

So everything is all full circle and it's all stuff that's inside, coming outside visually.

So I'm in love with it.

I enjoy it.

So as long as I can see, I'm going to be putting a viewfinder up to my eye.

Yeah.

So Chibi mentioned, you know, that like, you know, the experience and stuff like that.

How does that.

How does that grab you, hearing somebody who's, you know, been doing this for.

A while, say it again.

How does that all feel like, you know, listening to that whole journey, you know, when your journey is a little bit newer, how does it.

How does it feel listening to that?

It feels like it feels good because, like, it's probably going to be like some people gonna look at our work and like, be expired.

So I just like how, like, photography is, like, brings people together, you know?

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Even like with film, like, film is like.

They say it's like coming back, quote unquote, but it's like I feel like I always been here.

It's like, yeah, people just slept on it.

Yeah.

It never left.

I mean, they were still selling.

It wasn't like they weren't.

People just went to Disney.

But the price went way up.

Yeah, but it was here the whole time.

Yes.

And a lot of people don't know my first show ever was in Rochester.

Yeah.

Really?

Yes.

Where was it?

It was a group show at the Triple U. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Way back.

I was wearing a T shirt yesterday.

Yeah, I remember.

That was a.

That was a cool spot.

Yeah, it was a group show.

Me, my boy, Adrian and Erica.

Erica J. Oh, yeah, she was on the scene too.

Behind the glass.

2019.

Yeah.

Full circle.

Yeah.

She had messaged me when I announced this show and was like, I'm hyped.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So that was my first one.

So it's cool to be back here for another group show.

Adrian, who hosted the show here, he had an RB So that was the first time I ever seen an RB67.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And I was like, damn, what is that?

You know, it looked crazy.

So, you know, he kind of sparked my interest in the film.

And then once I started just seeing, like Chiba said, the texture and just.

It's just different.

It's different.

And I like that you really got to be on point, know what you're doing to.

To make it work.

So that's what kind of grabbed me.

So since 20, 21, and I jumped right to 120.

So I skipped over 35 for whatever reason.

It don't make no sense.

But I started with a TLR.

So I was shooting 6x6 and I didn't love shooting squares.

So eventually I moved up and got the RB and started shooting at it.

Now I got rc.

So Mami is definitely.

I've always had a Mamiya for.

For 120.

And I shoot Nikon.

I got F3 for 35.

You said you.

The camera your father was shooting of you as a baby, you use that one as well?

Yes, it's a Minolta.

I like running in New York City a lot.

So 35 is usually my game out there.

But I have.

Yeah, I mean.

Cause you pull up with the Mamiya, it's like.

You'd be surprised, man.

I still.

I know I still rolled that on the street.

I remember you were sitting.

It was like you had a baby on your lap at the little.

I was like, my man came out with the big boy.

Yeah, it's like a young child.

Yeah.

I mean, it's the camera I use the most.

I'm most comfortable with it.

So it's definitely, you know, for most people, it's gonna be too heavy for the street, but yeah, I mean, when I was in Europe, that's what I was.

I was carrying around probably 95 of the time.

So shooting on the streets with that over there is different too, because just you're gonna draw a lot of attention to yourself.

So it's hard to be hitting when you gotta a tank in your hand.

So.

Yeah, for sure.

So when you're out with that Minolta and you think about, you know, you made that comment about, you know, as long as I could see, I'm gonna pull that viewfinder up to my eye, and you think about, like your dad's eye looking through that, and now you're looking through it capturing, you know, maybe not your child, but capturing like these moments.

Like you ever.

Is that ever, like something that pops in your head or like, wow.

Like, my first.

Some of my first photos as a.

As a.

As a child was taken with this.

And now I'm kind of, you know, taken, you know, my look through it to capture other things.

Yeah, I think I do think about just the extension of it, you know, because it wasn't anything that I was involved with growing up.

You know, it just kind of Photography just kind of fell in my lap.

And I think how I responded to it is what got me here.

So, you know, ultimately it was up to me.

But like I said, my curiosity is something that's always fueling what I'm doing.

But I do think about the extension of it.

You know, my dad, it was, I mean, they family pictures, you know, so when I go through them, I'm like, ah, he kind of.

He kind of knew what he was doing here.

But you know, just family, family album, stuff like that.

But I think it is cool to still have that around and, you know, to be.

To be using that.

So I think it was interesting.

And, you know, we obviously talked about it with having that, that photo book that Chibo walks around with, but also when I talked about my grandmother.

And there was just something because one, it was the only thing that it could do.

Like, there was no digital.

There was no other alternative.

It was just film.

You dropped it off wherever you got the film back.

Hopefully it was good.

Hopefully it was whatever.

But even if it wasn't, it all went in the book anyway.

You know, it wasn't something that, like, some things got kind of tossed or scanned or anyone stuff.

Yeah, they made it work.

Right.

But you're also like, man, damn.

They kind of knew what they was doing with it.

But also, did they.

Or were they just like not thinking as much as we may think today because we have so many alternatives, right?

So we like, oh, I got my phone.

I can look at this.

I got the digital.

I can do that.

Okay, I got the film.

But if I don't get it, I can always go back.

And so it's an interesting, you know, how we allow ourselves to slow down now.

Like, you know, there was digital when I was growing up, but, man, you had to have a fortune to like, get that digital camera.

So, you know, I shot film.

I had the disposable, you know, cameras.

I used to just run through those and then drop them off and get them back and had the prints.

And, you know, I still.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

You heard the double.

Yeah.

That's another thing I like about film, though.

It's just being a little bit more slowing down, being intentional, you know, knowing you got to make it work.

Film is not cheap and it's not getting.

No, you're at 120.

Yeah, 120.

Ish.

It's violent, man.

It's worth it.

But, yeah, I mean, it's nice when you get it right and it, you know, it really hurts when you get it wrong.

But, yeah, yeah, I think slowing down, I think that makes you a better photographer, and I feel like it really trains your eye a little bit better.

You know, the rare times that I do go back to digital now I don't shoot nearly as much as I did, you know, those first 10 years of shooting digital because, you know, in my head, I'm.

I'm looking for what I want, and when I got it, I know I got it.

So there's no need to just, you know, keep.

Keep pounding out exposures.

But the tangible aspect, too.

Like Chiba, when I met she.

But I liked his approach, too, with the.

With the book and just putting something, it makes you stop, you know what I mean?

You can't just thumb stuff away like you can on the phone.

So you got to kind of go through and take your time, stay on some pages longer than others.

You know what I mean?

So I like the.

I've made a couple photo books, nothing to the caliber that I want it to be.

And I think, you know, I've been trying to get some grant money to do that for real, but, you know, the tangibles is definitely an important thing.

I do print out a lot of pictures, and I have a lot of, like, mock photo books that I've built at home.

But I think the curation and everything that goes into it, I like diving.

Diving deep into it.

So in the future, when it's coming.

Yeah.

Did you have a.

You mentioned a book.

Did you.

Is this like a project you have an idea for or just showing the work, or do you have like, hey, this is a theme I want to tackle with this as a project?

Yeah, definitely want to theme something.

I mean, I got so much work, you know, I don't count work that's on Instagram is work that's out in the world, even though it is out in the world.

But again, touching things, it's a different kind of intention.

Right, exactly.

So, you know, I have projects that I've worked on before.

You know, I shoot in Buffalo a lot.

Like I said, I shoot in New York City a lot.

Sometimes I go to New York just to, you know, do 30, 000 steps and.

Yeah, and.

And let the camera go.

So it's kind of like a yoga session out there.

Everybody's in their own world.

So I definitely have projects that I can turn into books, but I'm real particular on how I curate even my Instagram.

You want a complete thought?

Yeah, I'm real picky with how I go about things.

It.

That's something that have, you know, really started to think about a lot.

I've done a lot of interviewing of people doing like one person shows in the last, you know, couple years.

I've started to dive into, like when you.

When does something hits, when something really impacts you, it's almost always a complete thought.

Yeah.

And I've been really wrestling with this difference of you can accidentally make something good.

Yeah.

It's almost impossible to make something great on accident.

And the difference is that in between is that finesse and intention.

Yeah.

Right.

It's.

I'm driving to this and I'm trying to accomplish something versus I'm shooting.

Right.

You're not just shooting.

You're shooting with intent.

You're shooting with a drive towards a specific thing.

And then it's that little finesse of, oh, I want to make somebody feel this, so I'm going to change this.

Yeah.

But that's experience and also having lived.

Having lived a bit.

Right.

And I think it's also taking time.

Photos have a weird thing about them where they can grow on you.

Yeah.

Over time, you know, stuff that you.

Might not like initially, it's gonna mean something different too.

Yeah.

Like you don't throw it away, but you set it aside and then when you see it again, you know, and even put it next to maybe some newer stuff that you're working on, you can start to kind of connect things together and see how it makes more sense.

So that's why I'm not trying to rush.

Yeah, no, I try not to rush with anything I do.

I try to be early and I try to take my time.

Yeah, that's like.

Like to get off.

What you saying?

Like.

Like photos, like either that, like you see a photo like this, wasn't that better off?

Or God even took this photo.

Right.

Or Take a photo that you hate, and then you put it out in the world and everybody loving you.

Like, I like this.

Yeah.

Which is kind of odd.

I was like, oh, all right.

So that's happened.

I can recall sometimes.

Yeah, Yeah.

I mean, when you work with a client, that's perfect.

But, you know, sometimes I'd be like, man, y' all tripping, man.

I was about to.

I almost.

This is about to go in the garbage.

Yeah, I was not about to send.

This to you at all.

Yeah, that's, you know, that's the.

That's so real.

And.

And also, like, how sometimes, you know, you're talking about it, like, when you're looking at a body of work and you're like, oh, yeah, I don't know about this.

And then you bring it into another body of work and you're like, wow, like, this works together.

These two images being together makes more sense than, you know, how I felt about them separately.

And I think about times where I've been preparing for shows or something, and I'm like, yeah, I don't know about this image.

And I'm working with a curator.

And they're like, no, this image works because of this image.

This image.

This image.

And so having that second set of eyes sometimes helps me.

But then also you're like, oh, actually, I do see why.

But if they were apart, you'd be like, I want to show any of those, like, a part.

Like, they could not be.

Be a standalone.

So I want to talk a little bit about your.

Your work and your work in Buffalo and, you know, just a lot of the documentary style stuff that you do.

So you've got, like, you know, the bike scenes.

You've got, you know, everyday people.

You know why?

Like, you know, I. I know why, but I want you to share with.

With folks, you know, what gravitated you to that?

Yeah, I mean, the bike stuff really started during COVID Nobody was outside, and those.

I was living on the west side of Buffalo, which is probably the biggest melting pot of Buffalo.

You got West Africans, you got lotions.

Puerto is heavily with Puerto Ricans.

Burmese.

Yeah, Burmese, Chinese.

So you get everybody.

But the only people that was outside and the only noise outside was dirt bikes and atv.

So, again, curiosity.

And obviously, I'm not a. I'm not a homebody.

I like to be active.

So that kind of got me pulled into that world.

And it took a couple of times for it to even stick, you know, because I didn't know them guys.

Some of them guys don't Even speak English.

So it kind of took me kind of chasing them down a couple times, making sure I had my camera with me because I knew if, you know, if I can get a photo off and get a Facebook or a phone number, once you see what I'm doing, I can probably reel you in from there.

So it still took a couple times for it to stick, but, you know, once it stuck, it was.

It got from me trying to find where they were to me on the back of ATVs with them taking a photo.

So it got deep and that ended up leading to my first solo show in Buffalo.

So I'm glad that I took that opportunity and chased that, even though initially, you know, it's always going to be bumps initially.

So that just told me to keep working.

You know, if you keep working through stuff, you can kind of get to where you want to be.

When you speak about bumps, I think when we, we spoke in April, you were getting ready for, you know, you were doing some work with AKG up in Buffalo with the mural that is complete now, right?

Yeah.

And so you were going out into a community to take portraits that would then be used by.

By this artist.

Tell us about that, that day.

Yes.

I mean, same thing.

It's not my first time being assigned, you know, by a gallery or museum to do a community kind of based project.

I had done one with sipa, just focused on.

They basically brought in six photographers, split up the city and assigned each.

Yeah, that was a beautiful.

Yeah, that was a beautiful series.

So.

Yes, I mean, a lot of the same bumps initially with that too.

It's always tough being an outsider, especially in urban neighborhoods, you know, trying to insert yourself because you really, you have photographer and you have investigator too, because you gotta make connections.

You got to put dots together and then you have to.

Shooting is almost last because you got to do a lot of groundwork to get to that point.

Building that trust.

Yeah, exactly.

So it's.

It's tough in any neighborhood, but especially the hoods where, you know, they got real problems that they worrying about outside of a photographer from the AKG trying to take their pictures.

So.

But again, I shoot on the street, so I get no all the time.

And sometimes I ask for forgiveness instead of permission.

So I think my experience helps me do do well and have the stamina to get to where you want to be, because it's usually always a hump.

But once you get over the hump and you find the right connection, usually the door can bust wide open from there.

So it was A good experience.

It was, it was, it was definitely was tough.

But yeah, they just had the, the ribbon cutting yesterday, so it was nice.

Yeah.

That's awesome.

So when folks come into your, your second showing in Rochester now, you know, what should they expect from the, the work that you'll have on, on display?

Not specific what you're bringing, but you know, what, what do you think?

What do you want people to feel?

I let people feel whatever they want to feel.

If they're feeling anything, then I'm doing something right.

Yeah.

So I don't want to, you know, they can love it, they can hate it.

An opinion is what I'm stopping and looking and having an opinion is, is my ultimate goal.

But this work is definitely some newer work.

It's, you know, it's still portraiture and still some landscapes, what I usually do.

But you know, in a different way.

I like to, you know, when I'm introducing myself, I like to say I'm an artist first because I really do have a passion for art, which is beyond photography.

So I'm always trying to figure out ways to separate myself for one, because photography can be repetitive.

You know, pictures and squares can be repetitive.

So I'm always trying to look for ways to refine that.

I've been lucky enough to be in some residencies where, you know, I've been in spaces where I can, you know, be taught and learn how to stretch that past just a picture from a camera.

So you're doing screen printing, right?

Or something similar?

Yeah, yeah, yeah, Mirabel.

So I picked up a lot of skills from them and then it was only a week long residency too, so I'm working full time and then I'm putting in hours right after work doing that.

But basically this show is going to be some skills that I picked up from there that I'm still refining.

So mixing, you know, transferring acetones, printing paper like I was using there with medium format photography and kind of making something new with that.

So it should be, it should be interesting.

So I'm hoping, hoping people gravitate to it or at least ask questions because it is something that's, that's different.

That personally I haven't seen yet.

So for sure.

So as we begin to wrap, we want to just jump back over to Chiba for a moment.

Where can, where can folks find you?

You can find me on Instagram.

Chiba585.

Chiba Archives.

Where the photo's at.

Same thing for TikTok.

Yeah, yeah.

And you can see me.

October 2nd.

Farmhouse.

Yeah.

Yes, sir.

Get them plugs.

Yeah, Right.

And if you're in Europe next year, you could probably catch them there too.

Yeah, you see me in Italy, Milan, Rome, I'm trying to go all over.

So there you go.

Get your train passes now, right?

Yeah, you gotta get those early.

Museum passes early.

You gotta get all that early, especially for Europe.

And, yeah, a lot of photos coming from Italy.

So Scott's is ready?

Yes, sir.

Shout out Scott's.

What about you, DJ?

Where can folks find you?

Not on TikTok, I'll tell you that, but I'm on Instagram at.

I try to limit my social media, but I'm on Instagram @DJ Kyra.

If you type in DJ Kyra anywhere, it's going to connect you to everything I'm at.

So that's by design.

So, DJ Kyra, throw an extra hour on there and you'll find me.

All right, I appreciate it.

Thank you guys for joining us.

Thank you for sharing your work with us.

More importantly.

And you can see their work on display at the Farmhouse downtown Rochester through the end of October as our October featured artists.

Second floor.

Yes, sir.

Second floor.

Yes.

This has been a presentation of the Lunchador Podcast Network,.

Italy.

Rochester's coming.

I need a piece of review.