Evan and Bill discuss one of the greatest adventure films of all time, Steven Spielberg's 1981 classic, Raiders of the Lost Ark.

We promise we didn't ruin it!

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Track 1: Hello, and welcome to Left of the Projector. I'm your host, Evan,

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Track 1: of our weekly episodes that drop every Tuesday. And now on to the show.

Track 1: This week on Left of the Projector, we will be talking about the 1981 film Raiders

Track 1: of the Lost Ark, also known as Indiana Jones, Raiders of the Lost Ark.

Track 1: It is, of course, directed by Steven Spielberg, screenplay by Lawrence Kastan,

Track 1: and the story by George Lucas and Philip Kaufman.

Track 1: It stars, of course, Harrison Ford, plus Karen Allen, Paul Freeman,

Track 1: Ronald Lacey, John Rhys-Davies, and Denholm Elliott.

Track 1: It's just myself and Bill. How are you doing today?

Track 2: All right. How are you doing?

Track 1: Oh, pretty good. This is the first time. I'm just kidding that I've seen this

Track 1: movie. I've seen this movie so many times.

Track 2: Yeah, I mean, I grew up on this movie.

Track 1: I, as a kid, had a, I don't, I think I had a, I had like the hat that he wore.

Track 1: It may have been the like official license one, but then I had a fake jacket,

Track 1: like a fake leather jacket that was not Indiana Jones. And I had a,

Track 1: just like a string that I played with at home as like my whip.

Track 1: And I would just like whip the bed, like the, like the staircase.

Track 1: And I loved Indiana Jones when I was a kid.

Track 2: I, I wanted the hat. I wanted the whip. I wanted the jacket.

Track 2: Yeah. It was all, it was all amazing. It was fundamental to my childhood.

Track 1: Yes. And this came out, this came out the year before, like the year before I was born.

Track 1: And I think, I don't remember what time, how many years later the second one

Track 1: came out. I have to check, but it was right at the right time for me as, um, Temple of Doom, 84.

Track 2: Temple of Doom came out 84.

Track 1: Okay.

Track 2: And then Last Crusade 89. And then, of course, can't forget Crystal Skull.

Track 1: What's funny is there's actually another one you didn't even mention, The Dial of Destiny.

Track 2: I was going to get to The Dial of Destiny. The Dial of Destiny,

Track 2: the movie which my wife and I watched in which she forgot we watched.

Track 2: Wiped from her memory, was convinced we had never seen this movie.

Track 2: I'm like, we sat in this house on this couch and watched that movie.

Track 2: She's like, I don't believe you.

Track 1: See, the thing is, you should have just been like, you're right.

Track 1: We never saw it. You've never heard of it.

Track 1: I've never seen it, so I can't say. I just remember being so disappointed by the Crystal Skull.

Track 1: It just didn't make a lot of sense. And let me ask you this,

Track 1: which is your favorite of the, we're going to forget it, but obviously it's

Track 1: not the last two movies. Which of the three core movies is your favorite movie?

Track 2: Okay, this is going to be real controversial. I have a real soft spot for Temple of Doom.

Track 1: Oh, interesting.

Track 2: I think it is because Temple of Doom felt so different and so out of my...

Track 2: I grew up Catholic.

Track 2: I wasn't Catholic Catholic, but I grew up...

Track 2: I grew up surrounded by Catholicism, you know, and it's like temple of doom

Track 2: introduced, it's like a whole other world. It's like, Oh, like there's like other shit, you know?

Track 2: And the temple of doom had a level of like horror to it.

Track 2: That just doesn't exist in the other movies.

Track 2: I, as like, as horrific as like some of the scenes in like, uh, Raiders of the Lost Ark,

Track 2: or last crusade are, you know, as, as horrific as some of the things are that,

Track 2: happen temple of doom has a level of like horror that to me i think just like

Track 2: really like hit something yeah i don't think it's

Track 2: i wouldn't say it's my favorite it's very hard for me to separate these movies,

Track 2: but i but i have a spot i have a soft spot for temple of doom despite the fact

Track 2: that like a lot of people do not like temple of doom and it is right i mean it is,

Track 2: there are criticisms to be made of temple do a great deal i mean it is deep.

Track 1: Like yeah yeah the entire fugi cult that they have in it is pretty gross yeah.

Track 2: It's deeply racist but like i didn't know that when i was you know fucking six seven you know like.

Track 1: Yeah yeah no i get that i it's funny it's funny so as a kid i probably saw,

Track 1: temple of doom more times and i actually had you know how they would always

Track 1: release children's books of each of these movies i mean they probably still

Track 1: do this but in like when I was maybe,

Track 1: seven I had a book that was the story of Temple of Doom as a book and I would

Track 1: just read that all the time and I had the VHS I think only for Temple of Doom

Track 1: and Raiders I don't think I had,

Track 1: Last Crusade it was sort of a little bit too late but,

Track 1: I thought you were going to say you liked The Last Crusade the best,

Track 1: and that's probably my favorite.

Track 2: I mean, I love The Last Crusade. Like I said, it's very hard for me to separate these movies.

Track 2: But if we're going to talk, it's like, you know, I'm going to drop the hot take.

Track 2: Because Temple of Tube is not well liked.

Track 1: Yeah, as long as you didn't say you liked The Crystal Skull or something,

Track 1: I think it's an acceptable answer.

Track 1: The thing that I think is also hilarious, that I don't know why they did this,

Track 1: The Raiders of the Lost Ark is set in 1936.

Track 1: Temple of Doom came out three years later and is a prequel. It's so weird.

Track 2: It makes no sense. I don't know why they did what they did with some of this stuff.

Track 2: And I will be honest, out of the newer ones, I actually don't dislike Crystal Skull that much.

Track 2: There are parts of it that I think are god-awful, but it is certainly better

Track 2: than Dial of Destiny, which is a dumpster fire.

Track 1: Yeah, and they did the aging on Harrison Ford and everything.

Track 2: I genuinely, I'm jealous that Jackie forgot having watched it.

Track 2: I wish that I had that ability.

Track 1: I haven't seen it yet, so maybe I'll just never see it.

Track 2: Don't watch it. It is absolutely terrible because they try to do the things that they always did.

Track 2: And it's like, at one point, he's running along the top of a train.

Track 2: And it's like, you're watching an 80-something-year-old man running along the

Track 2: top of a train. And it's like, he's old.

Track 2: Let the man rest.

Track 1: Yeah. Well, so for anyone who maybe hasn't seen Raiders of the Lost Ark,

Track 1: we were just talking about this.

Track 1: Maybe we don't, may not have recorded all of it, but if you search,

Track 1: even on just regular, if you go on like a Roku TV and you type in Indiana Jones

Track 1: and the Raiders of the Lost Ark, it might not show up because they called it Raiders of the Lost Ark.

Track 1: It didn't have the Indiana Jones in it. It's really weird. And one of those,

Track 1: you know, first in its franchise, they just called it whatever they wanted to

Track 1: call it. And it sounds like a cool ass name.

Track 2: Yeah.

Track 1: Raiders of the Lost Ark, but it takes place in 1936. And of course,

Track 1: indiana jones who's harrison ford sort of one of probably the most i have to

Track 1: believe that the opening scene to raiders is probably the most famous indiana

Track 1: jones scenes of the entire franchise it's he is holding the bag of sand and

Track 1: he switches it with the golden idol

Track 1: and then he's running the guy steals it from him and then the boulder is going

Track 1: through and he's running from the boulder and,

Track 1: that's such a great opening scene doesn't get any better than that.

Track 2: I feel like you know So it's funny because, you know, we, we just did end of

Track 2: Oak street and when we did end of Oak street, one of the things we talked about

Track 2: was how different that movie felt in comparison to modern movies.

Track 2: And, you know, rewatching Lost Ark, you know, and again strikes me,

Track 2: it's like, oh, you know, like that part of that,

Track 2: that part that open has no bearing on the rest of the movie other than to establish

Track 2: Jones's relationship with Belak.

Track 2: That's it. And it's like, but we still have, we are still given the time to

Track 2: like dwell and like exist in this moment that sets the stage for who,

Track 2: Jones is as a character, but also like, you know, the relationships of the movie moving forward.

Track 2: And I feel like nowadays, you know, we would start a movie and you'd start it

Track 2: like in the thick of plot.

Track 2: And then that's how you're introduced to the character.

Track 1: Yeah.

Track 2: You know and.

Track 1: So much of that opening scene matters we're.

Track 2: Allowed to breathe yeah yeah it sets so much tone but it's not integral to plot

Track 2: but nowadays we've lost tone.

Track 1: Yeah no it's true it does feel like they decided to create the character i mean

Track 1: it's also the first time you're well they didn't know they're going to be having a franchise,

Track 1: but they're introducing a character and making you actually care about him and

Track 1: they they they also have the you know when the plane flies away from the,

Track 1: from the i can't remember what country they're in in south america peru peru

Track 1: maybe peru it's peru okay they like when the snake is inside of the little his

Track 1: seat and he says you know i hate snakes and of course they have to bring that

Track 1: back around like all the little like i don't want to call them gags,

Track 1: you know little tidbits they drop all matter later in the movie and it's great

Track 1: to just you always are seeing him like lying on the ground or being screwed

Track 1: by Rene Belloc, his French,

Track 1: rival archaeologist, which I think is also kind of funny, which I'm sure actually really existed,

Track 1: rival archaeologists. Maybe not to this extent.

Track 2: Yeah. So my question is,

Track 2: What are we going to do with this movie? Are we going to ruin our childhood

Track 2: memories? Are we going to ruin memories for people?

Track 2: What are we going to talk about regarding this movie? And the franchise at large,

Track 2: like, what are we going to do about Indiana Jones? What are we doing here?

Track 1: When I was watching it, I was thinking of the war's continuous miserable Marxist take of a film.

Track 1: and i honestly couldn't,

Track 1: find too many things that destroy this movie like that would ruin it for me

Track 1: like there's lots of movies i watched from my childhood i'm like oh man this movie

Track 1: is terrible like has so much terrible aspects like you know pick a john hughes

Track 1: movies from like the 1980s mostly and they're mostly just destroyed with this

Track 1: one the only thing i can really,

Track 1: touch on that I think is like the ongoing joke about Indiana Jones movies is

Track 1: that he is being funded by his university or whatever it is to find these,

Track 1: golden idols from temples and then putting them into the museum at his university.

Track 1: And in some ways it's like the joke about, you know, the British museum wouldn't

Track 1: exist if they took out everything that was stolen. So like, I don't blame I

Track 1: don't blame him specifically in 1936 for that.

Track 1: But looking at it from a modern perspective, you have to think,

Track 1: man, this is just taking idols and items from these places and putting them

Track 1: in a museum without asking to take them.

Track 2: I mean, that's like, I feel like that's like the low hanging fruit.

Track 1: Yes.

Track 1: But I couldn't think of anything beyond that, really. Like, really.

Track 1: I mean, except there's consistent.

Track 1: Well, another thing is, there's consistently, once you reach sort of the main

Track 1: part when they're in Cairo and beyond.

Track 1: How many times does a character refer to the people in those places as savages?

Track 1: It's at least four. Oh, yeah. Or civilized people.

Track 2: Which is tied to what I was, like, the one thing that kind of,

Track 2: like, I never thought about.

Track 2: until right now is that,

Track 2: the fact that, and it is, I think it is fundamentally tied to the,

Track 2: you know, the way they treat the people is the fact that, so the Ark of the

Track 2: Covenant is really magic.

Track 2: I mean, or supernatural. It is actually holy and powerful and so yada, yada, yada. Right?

Track 1: The Ark. Yeah.

Track 2: The Ark of the Covenant. Yeah. Just like we go on to find in Last Crusade that it, that is really,

Track 2: and Temple of Doom, actually, the fact that they make Temple of Doom a prequel

Track 2: to this kind of like fucks with things because he explicitly states in this

Track 2: movie that he's like, I don't believe in a hocus-pocus.

Track 1: He does.

Track 2: Yeah. We know for, but then they made a movie after this in which he saw shit

Track 2: happen. Like real supernatural, like, you know, shit happened, you know?

Track 2: Stuff happened. But if we look at this movie isolated, it is very like kind

Track 2: of like Christian, like Western, because it's very much the idea.

Track 2: It's like, yeah, the Ark of the Covenant is real and it's magic and it has powers

Track 2: and it could do things, all this stuff, right?

Track 2: And Jones has spent decades going around to places and robbing temples essentially and, you know,

Track 2: getting relics that are, according to the people of the cultures that he is robbing, have power.

Track 2: And they've never, ever exhibited anything. But Christianity's real,

Track 2: actually. That's the real one.

Track 2: That's the real, that actually has power.

Track 2: The rest of the stuff, it's just mumbo-jumbo. It's just superstitious savages.

Track 1: Yeah, I guess that is a good point. And beyond that, actually,

Track 1: the thing that i feel like i always knew but i sort of ignored it the other big

Track 1: thing that i just put it the pieces together watching it more critically is

Track 1: and i also found an article from looper.com

Track 1: called the most terrible things indiana jones has ever done and the main one

Track 1: that we'd learned about in this movie so,

Track 1: to maybe to actually like paint the picture so after the opening scene,

Track 1: he comes back to the university.

Track 1: He's teaching at some school. I don't think they say in this movie what school

Track 1: it is, but in later ones they do.

Track 1: He's at, I think it's a fictional universe anyway, but he gets briefed by the

Track 1: army intelligence that the Nazis are looking to find the Ark of the Covenant.

Track 1: And they're using it because they believe it has, you know, make them invincible

Track 1: and so on and so forth. And they want him to go to find it first.

Track 1: And his first stop after he...

Track 1: goes on the quest is to see an old mentor named abner ravenwood's daughter marion who lives in nepal,

Track 1: and they talk about how they had a falling out himself and abner ravenwood the professor,

Track 1: and we realized that it's because he had a relationship with his daughter marion

Track 1: who at the time was only 16 and indiana jones was 25 and actually according

Track 1: to the novelization of this She was only 15.

Track 2: Oof.

Track 1: So, that's bad.

Track 2: In the movie, do they ever actually clarify how old she is?

Track 1: No. And the reason why is because they don't want this to be,

Track 1: they don't want to say that. But they do say that it had been 10 years since they saw each other.

Track 1: And if you look up to find out how old she is in the movie, she's about 26, 27. He's 36, 37.

Track 1: Minus 10 years, we're talking 16, 17, 26, 27. Doesn't look great.

Track 2: Oh, no, not at all.

Track 2: I, I, I feel like this is a thing that has, like, I feel like this is a thing

Track 2: that's come up more recently.

Track 2: People have taken note of this more recently.

Track 1: Yeah.

Track 2: From, from what I can recall. Um, and I feel like there has been discussion

Track 2: about how basically like Lucas the Spielberg was like, they put that in there

Track 2: and then they tried to like basically never bring it up again and fucking bury it.

Track 2: And like, they're like, oh wait, no, this was a boo boo. We should not have done this.

Track 1: There really is no reason to have had that storyline in the same way they could have.

Track 1: I mean, she does say several times, or at least once, that I was a child.

Track 2: She says once. She says, I was a child.

Track 1: And she was. And that's, I mean, I understand that it was 1926 when this happened.

Track 1: That doesn't excuse it as, you

Track 1: know, what's the statutory rape or whatever the term we might use today.

Track 2: I don't think that's statutory rape. That's just... statutory rape is...

Track 1: That he's the wrong term.

Track 2: I mean, I don't know.

Track 1: But it's bad. Let's just suffice to say he shouldn't have done that.

Track 1: And so it's funny, the other things that it says in this article,

Track 1: it says that he's a terrible professor.

Track 2: You're correct. It is statutory rape. You're correct, yes.

Track 1: It says he also is a terrible professor, and it says he robs graves and steals artifacts.

Track 2: Yeah.

Track 1: Oh, and then in the second Temple of Doom, he does work for the mob.

Track 1: Doesn't he work for the...

Track 2: I mean, I'm not going to, you know...

Track 1: All right, we'll give that one a pass.

Track 2: I'm not going to judge people for working for the mob.

Track 1: I will judge them for having affairs with teens.

Track 2: Yeah, yeah, that's why, yeah. I can excuse working for the mob.

Track 1: But I draw the line at teens.

Track 2: At statutory rape, yeah, I do.

Track 1: As you should. But I mean, even with that.

Track 2: Yeah, I think that's fair.

Track 1: Yeah, I rated this again at Letterboxd afterwards. I still give this movie,

Track 1: I don't know what this says about me, I still give this movie five stars with

Track 1: the caveat of knowing that he is not a good person.

Track 2: Well, I mean, all right, straight up, okay, Indiana Jones in this film is not alike.

Track 2: Like, he is, if we were to compare Harrison Ford characters,

Track 2: you know, he is Han Solo, but with even more rough edges.

Track 2: Like, he is an asshole.

Track 1: Yeah, he is.

Track 2: Like, he is not a good person in this movie. He is a dickhead. He is...

Track 2: Listen, he has one overriding goal, and, you know, he will sacrifice other people.

Track 2: I mean, when he goes to the dig site, and they, you know, they find out the

Track 2: place, you know, they use the map room, they climb back out,

Track 2: and when they are running away at the one point after they're out there,

Track 2: And Indy runs into that tent and sees Marion.

Track 2: He doesn't let her go.

Track 2: He re-gags her and is like, letting you go will stop me from interfering with

Track 2: his ability to find the Ark of the Covenant.

Track 2: And mind you, he does not. Now, we as viewers know that the Ark of the Covenant

Track 2: is actually a super powerful artifact that if the Nazis actually had the means

Track 2: of like using it would be devastating.

Track 2: He doesn't believe that. He doesn't think that.

Track 2: So he is really too, he is, he is like.

Track 2: Banking on his ability to get back to Marion and let her go,

Track 2: in pursuit of a, of a not of, of a historical artifact, one of great importance

Track 2: or relevance, but not something that can like, you know, turn the tide of a

Track 2: war or like stop a like fascist genocide.

Track 2: No, it's just an artifact.

Track 2: And he's just like, listen, it's way more important that I do that.

Track 2: You're just going to have to stay here with these Nazis.

Track 1: And I have to say, I was just thinking about this, it sure doesn't seem like

Track 1: he actually dislikes the Nazis that much.

Track 2: I don't...

Track 1: He, in the, in the third movie, it's very clear. Like he's like,

Track 1: he hates them and it's a whole thing, but in 19, like maybe I know it's not

Track 1: really part of the movie.

Track 1: It's just, it's a very, it's a great villain to be going after him and who doesn't

Track 1: want to, I retract that. I retract that. He does beat the shit out of a bunch of them and kill some.

Track 2: So to be fair, God, I can't believe the way I say this. This is 1936.

Track 2: This is prior to like the worst of the worst of the, like, you know,

Track 2: he doesn't know what's like, it is, it is historically accurate that at this

Track 2: point, like people, People had a more nuanced or uncertain.

Track 2: People at the time, especially like Americans, had a much more,

Track 2: you know, loose understanding of what the fuck was going on.

Track 1: Especially given the newspapers aren't exactly demonizing them as they would later.

Track 2: Yeah. Like, it is historically accurate. I'm not saying it's right.

Track 2: Like, I'm not, you know, I'm just saying it's not, it wouldn't be shocking for

Track 2: an American to, to not have as strong feelings about it as maybe,

Track 2: you know, X number of years later

Track 2: when shit has really like, you know, hit the fan and some things have come to light.

Track 2: I can understand why from a historical perspective he might not have you know,

Track 2: and at the same time but speaking of the Nazis I actually do think that that

Track 2: was another thing that I was thinking about is how as much as like we can agree

Track 2: I think that Indiana Jones and I think you're right the third film kind of like really

Track 2: especially for people like our generation really cemented the idea like Nazis

Track 2: are the villains they're the bad guys they're like they were the theatrical,

Track 2: like, you couldn't go wrong by putting Nazis in a movie.

Track 1: Yeah, I mean, they...

Track 2: They were the easy bad guys.

Track 1: And what's crazy is I think if, in a world where George Lucas wasn't the person

Track 1: who created this franchise...

Track 1: easily could have seen it the villain been the soviet union.

Track 2: Absolutely but.

Track 1: Lucas liked the.

Track 2: So but my issue is that looking at this like looking at this now from a more critical perspective,

Track 2: especially the first film um that one of the flaws i would say is that from a like propagandist,

Track 2: notion is that this movie does in many ways kind of prevent the not present

Track 2: the nazis as like buffoons it actually minimizes the danger,

Track 2: and the threat of the nazis and fascism as a whole yeah it actually it does

Track 2: contribute to that kind of like that notion that like you know it's the same

Track 2: way nowadays how like you know people downplay you know trump,

Track 2: and their ilk be like oh you know they're just a bunch of dummies and it's like,

Track 2: uh they're actually very dangerous Yeah.

Track 1: We can't even eat food right now.

Track 2: Yeah.

Track 1: Well, I think that they rectify that in the third movie. There's the scene,

Track 1: especially the scene, well, we don't talk about it. I was going to say the scene

Track 1: where he goes and he has the book and Hitler signs it.

Track 1: They show this gigantic book burning. So they do do better. I feel like they

Track 1: just used the Nazis more in this movie as the perfect backdrop for the villain.

Track 1: I don't think you could have done it. like I said, you could do with the Soviet

Track 1: Union. I don't think it really works unless they're going to push it as like,

Track 1: we got to stop, you know, make it really stop communism from spreading and they

Track 1: could have the arc and blah, blah, blah.

Track 2: Well, I mean, that's what happened in Crystal Skull.

Track 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, the note that I found that I never learned until now.

Track 1: So after, when they go to Nepal, he goes to Nepal to find Marion,

Track 1: but he doesn't actually want her.

Track 1: He wants this metal medallion that was basically to be used as the headpiece

Track 1: for the staff that could tell you where the Ark was actually buried.

Track 1: But when he goes there, one of the scariest characters that I always found terrifying

Track 1: as a kid was Arnold, I think it's Arnold Todd played by Ronald Lacey.

Track 1: He's sort of like the, I don't know what's the,

Track 1: like an SS agent, some kind of like, but more, you know, this is the guy you

Track 1: send to do the dirty work.

Track 1: I just learned that in 1979, in the original draft of this script,

Track 1: Spielberg wanted him to be a cyborg with a metal arm that could convert to a

Track 1: flamethrower or a machine gun.

Track 1: And Lucas said that's too far-fetched and they changed it.

Track 2: That's too far-fetched. Listen, later on we're going to have an arc melt a guy's

Track 2: face, but that's too far-fetched.

Track 1: I mean, it would have been stupid. Like, that doesn't really make any sense.

Track 2: There's no reason. No, there's no reason for it.

Track 1: Yeah, but I do love that he's just a great character And yeah,

Track 1: when his face melts later, it's awesome.

Track 1: So he goes to Nepal, he finally gets the medal while also burning down her bar

Track 1: that she owns, Marion's Bar. Now here's a question I have to you.

Track 1: Another moment where they're giving you character development.

Track 1: Why show Marion engaging in a drinking game with someone in her bar if not to

Track 1: then use that later when she's drinking with Belloc?

Track 1: Also, do you think that she has that level of tolerance or was she faking it?

Track 2: I don't know. I was thinking the same thing. I'm like, God damn,

Track 2: like that is like. She just gets right up. Otherworldly. Yeah. She just gets right up.

Track 2: She does not like, she stands right up.

Track 2: No stumble, nothing. But you would also like, I would assume, I don't know.

Track 2: I feel like people were betting on that.

Track 1: Yeah. They couldn't cheat them. Right.

Track 2: Yeah. Like, people were betting, I feel like it would have gone over poorly

Track 2: if she was, like, explicitly cheating.

Track 1: Yeah, I mean, then she also, there's also numerous times, so when someone shoots

Track 1: the barrel of beer, she puts her mouth under it.

Track 1: And then the very last line of the entire movie, I think, is asking him to get

Track 1: a drink. So I think she's just an alcoholic.

Track 2: Yeah, I think she's just an alcoholic.

Track 1: Yeah. But I do like to think that she was faking it, but maybe she's just,

Track 1: you know. I mean, who knows how strong are the drinking, the drinkers in Nepal?

Track 1: I have no idea. I mean, it's cold as shit. You'd think you'd want to drink.

Track 2: I don't think that was beer also. I'm pretty sure that was some kind of brown liquor.

Track 1: Oh, you're right.

Track 2: Yeah, you're right.

Track 1: You're right.

Track 2: There was no foam, nothing. That was just straight liquor.

Track 1: True. They probably wouldn't drink beer there, right? They'd probably just been drinking liquor. Yeah.

Track 2: I'm sure Nepal has beer, but, you know.

Track 1: The thing that's also, we're talking about the, like, the explicit...

Track 1: uh, you know, dehumanizing people who live in Egypt. So they go to Cairo and

Track 1: they also meet Sala, who's played by like such a classic actor,

Track 1: John Rhys-Davies, who I love and pretty much anything he ever does. He's always awesome.

Track 1: But he, he like is working for the Nazis, but,

Track 1: it's one of those things where he says he's sort of forced to,

Track 1: cause they need, you know, they basically need people to just dig and they'll

Track 1: make, you know, pay you pennies on the dollar, but they never explain how he knows him.

Track 1: I just assume that he's gone to Egypt for other digs or whatever it is,

Track 1: but they also depict Cairo.

Track 1: I mean, I guess I don't know what Cairo looked like in 1936,

Track 1: but they definitely only make it look like this backwards, the stereotypical

Track 1: perception of any Middle Eastern country.

Track 2: The classic scene in which the guy stands up before Indiana Jones,

Track 2: starts waving his sword around,

Track 2: And, you know, the classic story, you know, he was sick and he didn't care, so he shot him.

Track 2: And it's like, he shoots a man in the street.

Track 2: And everyone else, just like, all you see is the crowds just rush forward and

Track 2: you see a bunch of them pick up the guy's sword and run away. Like,

Track 2: in West Asia, in Cairo, you could just shoot a guy and nobody cares.

Track 2: The public just doesn't care. They're like, yeah, go for it.

Track 1: Not only that is my, I was watching with my daughter and the scene where Marion

Track 1: gets carried away by the two men.

Track 1: She, my daughter, I heard her, I know the line, but she's like,

Track 1: she just yelled, you can't do this to me. I'm an American.

Track 2: Which let's be honest, if that happened right now, an American would say that.

Track 1: Oh.

Track 2: A hundred percent.

Track 1: It's true. It's true. But in 1936, even more so.

Track 2: But it's just like the idea, it's like, it's so true the way that the people

Track 2: of these places are depicted outside of other than people like Sala who are

Track 2: explicitly westernized.

Track 2: Sala is explicitly westernized and like, you know, and basically of a higher, also of a higher class.

Track 1: Yes, he's definitely wealthier.

Track 2: He's wealthy he is and he he,

Track 2: he takes on western notions of like

Track 2: clothing and behavior and all that and it's like if you're not that you're just

Track 2: a savage and it's just like you watch a guy get shot in the street and your big thing is oh

Track 2: i got a shiny new sword and it's like you could not care less about this dead guy,

Track 2: and it's just like they just they're just the bumbling henchmen of the Nazis and,

Track 2: And it really is, that is the one thing, you know, that, that is,

Track 2: you know, it is a remarkably, remarkably racist.

Track 1: Yes.

Track 2: And we, Temple of Doom gets a lot of flack for being racist.

Track 2: And it's like, I think, I think Temple of Doom is getting undue flack in consideration

Track 2: of how racist the other fucking movies are.

Track 1: Yeah. This one is like this, but the racism in this is more subtle.

Track 1: Whereas in the other one, it's very explicit. This is sort of just the stereotypes

Track 1: of poor people who live in the Middle East or wherever.

Track 2: You're allowed to be racist against people from West Asia.

Track 1: Oh, yeah, sure.

Track 2: It's allowed.

Track 1: Yeah. They have entire ways that they film these places, and this is how they do it.

Track 1: I mean, granted, I was just Googling pictures of what Cairo looked like at this time.

Track 1: It's definitely not like the metropolis it is, you know, 20, 30, 40 years later.

Track 1: But every part of it wasn't just these little villages of just,

Track 1: I don't know what's, I can't think of the word to use to describe it.

Track 2: Like slums?

Track 1: Yeah, slums are bazaars.

Track 2: It's not like fucking, it's not like New York City or like, it's not like most

Track 2: American cities in 1936 were fucking like, you know.

Track 2: American cities in 1936 had tenement houses that burned down regularly.

Track 1: The,

Track 1: other thing is, is it easy to train monkeys to follow people as spies?

Track 1: because they make it really easy in this movie this monkey is just like following them all around.

Track 2: I mean i don't know and also like the very idea they're just like this monkey

Track 2: just shows up and nobody's like why the fuck is this monkey here.

Track 1: Well the wife's like what's that monkey doing in here and the kids like i like this monkey.

Track 2: Immediately let it go like just like immediately it's like what no what the fuck.

Track 1: I also but the best i mean the monkey has great scenes although you know what

Track 1: the fate of the monkey is unfortunate in fact he's killed by his owner which

Track 1: is the maybe the worst part,

Track 1: but the the scene where marion is hiding in one of the baskets and the monkey

Track 1: starts like screaming i'm like,

Track 1: number one would they have been able to hear the monkey screaming over the sounds

Track 1: of like the town probably not but then the monkey jumps on the basket and she's

Track 1: like get away you stupid monkey and her i think she just says shh and then they

Track 1: you know they find her and they carry her away,

Track 1: i mean i always love that scene too it is especially as a kid I mean the,

Track 1: There are all, there's at least four or five really good chase scenes in this.

Track 2: Yes.

Track 1: So many chase scenes. What does that happen? Oh, so after, I mean,

Track 1: we have to bring up this because this is the thing that is one of the most common

Track 1: jokes about this movie is that if Indiana Jones did not exist,

Track 1: the ending of this movie and the entire plot would have unfolded in the exact

Track 1: same way. Yes or no? Have you heard this before?

Track 2: I thought that was, I thought that was Last Crusade.

Track 1: Is it? Not this one?

Track 2: I thought it was Last Crusade.

Track 1: Oh, interesting. Now that you say that, I wonder. Because there's lots of moments

Track 1: in this where he briefly has the Ark, but not really.

Track 1: He never actually takes full possession of it at any one point.

Track 1: He's just sort of always chasing Belloc. You're looking it up.

Track 2: Yeah.

Track 1: I thought it was this movie that they say that.

Track 2: No, you're right. It is Greatest Lost Ark.

Track 1: Oh, it is. Okay. Because, so you think about it this way.

Track 1: He finds the room to be able to determine where the Ark is, where they already

Track 1: had been there, but they're digging in the wrong place.

Track 1: I also love when they're at the, uh, the, the, when they're,

Track 1: you know, the, the monkey dies, but he says bad dates.

Track 1: And then they realize like they're digging in the wrong place.

Track 1: That's the exact same moment. Him and, uh, Salas say it, but they go to this

Track 1: room. They find it, which is

Track 1: such an awesome scene too, where the light shines through the headpiece.

Track 1: They find out where it is. They start digging. They find it.

Track 1: But because they're digging until morning, Belloc sees them like in a different

Track 1: spot and then takes the Ark.

Track 1: He follows them through the desert to where the plane is, to that awesome scene

Track 1: where the Nazi just gets destroyed by the propeller. I mean,

Track 1: they should have done that to more Nazis.

Track 1: And then he follows the Ark. He never gets it.

Track 1: They take it to the island. He tries to get it again. He can't.

Track 1: And then they tie him up while they use the Ark. So never at any moment does

Track 1: he have possession of it. So it could be true.

Track 2: But like, okay, but here's the thing. It is irrelevant if it is true.

Track 1: Like, I know. I'm just being, I'm being, uh, being, uh.

Track 2: But no, I think that this is actually a conversation to be had.

Track 2: And it goes back to what you were saying before about how this,

Track 2: you know, how many, like, callbacks there are.

Track 2: And I think that one of, like, the issues—all right, first of all,

Track 2: do you know where that theory originates from?

Track 1: Reddit?

Track 2: The Big Bang Theory.

Track 1: Oh. Okay, well, I'm not going to be talking about that anymore.

Track 2: Okay. That comes from the Big Bang Theory. and i really feel like that in and

Track 2: of itself says everything about what like the nature of that theory because it's the idea

Track 2: it's the same thing as like how you you commented on like how the callbacks

Track 2: and how we appreciate the callbacks,

Track 2: but you will see so many people talk about movies now and they they refer to

Track 2: like callbacks or references things as basically cheap

Track 2: and the same thing is it's like yeah you're right indiana jones is not like

Track 2: yeah if he didn't exist you know like but like that's the story the story this

Track 2: is the fucking story like.

Track 2: And it's like the making that claim is just a way for people to feel intellectually superior

Track 2: to a movie and it's like the internet and, like, social media has pickled people's

Track 2: brains to such a degree where they can't watch,

Track 2: a movie or read a book and understand, like, the language of movies and how

Track 2: movies exist in a language of their own and, like, books and stories, like,

Track 2: they work on a system.

Track 2: Like, they have a language.

Track 2: And it's like, if you constantly criticize movies,

Track 2: writers for for making references to their own fucking stories like what do you want like yeah.

Track 1: There's this um there's i can't find it now there's this hilarious exchange,

Track 1: on twitter from a while back i can't find it now where someone is like,

Track 1: in a in a serious way saying something the effect of like oh like how come you

Track 1: know this happens in this movie and then like something else happens and the

Track 1: person quotes them being like that's how movies work yeah,

Track 1: you know of stories unfold and then you find out what happens and so the fact

Track 1: that it comes from big bang theory actually makes me kind of angry.

Track 2: It's just it's like it's a joke.

Track 1: For a tv show and then it became like this.

Track 2: Exactly it has become a part of like the cultural landscape and a way of like criticizing things

Track 2: so that people can feel like i said intellectually superior to like a film or

Track 2: a story and be like oh you know like

Track 2: i saw through your thing and it's like well the whole point of the movie is

Track 2: that it's like it's a race it's a race between indiana jones it's it's not that

Track 2: he's irrelevant it's that he lost the race but we still

Track 2: care about the character that's the fucking point like yeah yeah no.

Track 1: Yeah yeah with.

Track 2: That it's like that's like that's like saying you watch in indie 500 like you

Track 2: we you watch the olympics and you were like usain bolt won nobody else mattered

Track 2: it's like that's the fucking point like it's,

Track 2: Yeah, it does matter.

Track 1: Yeah, yeah. No, I mean, I was mostly bringing up to be just kind of a jerk,

Track 1: not because I actually believe that's the truth.

Track 2: No, I know. I know. I'm just I'm saying like, but this is this is a thing that

Track 2: is like and I and I do think it's an important thing to talk about how people have.

Track 2: Like I said, like their brains have been pickled by social media and the internet

Track 2: and the inability to like engage with stories in a meaningful way that if unless

Track 2: they can feel intellectually superior to it.

Track 1: Yeah, I really wish I could find that thing. I like searching Twitter is like,

Track 1: not possible, really. And yeah, used to be you could like see how you like what

Track 1: things you liked. I'll find it someday.

Track 1: Maybe. but that like but yeah there's so many um,

Track 1: the the one part of the movie that i think i sometimes forget happens is so

Track 1: after he finds the well of souls which is where the ark is resting,

Track 1: and they you know they lock them in down there and of course they're able to

Track 1: find you know another way out well actually before i get there here's another

Track 1: thing that's ridiculous after they're trapped in the well of souls and they

Track 1: knock that statue through the wall to

Track 1: to find another way out, he is able to move

Track 1: a very, very, very, very large and heavy stone just really easily.

Track 2: Well, that stone is made of foam.

Track 1: I know, but my kids are like, he just is super strong. I'm like,

Track 1: yep, that's how he is in this movie.

Track 2: Listen,

Track 2: it's testosterone. He is fucking adrenaline.

Track 1: He's terrifying. It's like when you can move a car to pick up your kid.

Track 1: Okay, so yeah, he has to save Marion.

Track 2: He can move the stone, yeah, to save her and also save himself,

Track 2: because otherwise they would be dead.

Track 1: Yeah, that's right, right. Right. Well, then at that point, there's also the really funny scene too.

Track 2: Lift with your knees, folks. Lift with your knees.

Track 1: Yes, exactly. Especially when you're lifting a three-ton rock.

Track 1: Then the thing that I always forget about is when they go to that steam line

Track 1: boat that they've now actually— I forgot.

Track 1: They do have the Ark at this moment, right? They steal it from the truck.

Track 2: Yes.

Track 1: And he takes it, and then a German U-boat intercepts them.

Track 1: and but then he also swims across the water to the u-boat is that what's we're

Track 1: supposed to believe happens right yeah he covertly gets on there and then he's

Track 1: able to like hide on it while it gets to this

Track 1: island how did that i don't know yeah he just well i mean.

Track 2: Unless if it didn't go down if it didn't submerge.

Track 1: True i think.

Track 2: Honestly i feel like i remember reading this someplace that like basically like

Track 2: U-boats unless they needed to at the time like they did not spend as much time beneath.

Track 1: As they would nowadays and they probably were already close to that island they

Track 1: were going to anyway so admit didn't make any difference I do like that they,

Track 1: one thing that we didn't bring up is that Belloc is just perfectly fine to work

Track 1: with the Nazis and I presume it's like he would get credit for this because

Track 1: he's not going to get the Ark he's giving it to them.

Track 2: Yeah no the,

Track 2: Again, you know, this is at a time when, you know, the Nazis,

Track 2: you know, were seen as a perfectly legitimate government.

Track 1: People worked with them.

Track 2: People work with the U.S. government now and they're fucking evil.

Track 1: Yes i mean belloc.

Track 2: Is clearly not a good person like.

Track 1: It's not like you.

Track 2: Know he's a terrible human being you know i'm not shocked that belloc is working with the nazis.

Track 1: No no i mean that's true i mean everything everything he does he goes to these

Track 1: places it almost seems like in the very opening scene i wasn't thinking about this do you,

Track 1: he happens to be there at the same time like he knew that indiana jones was going in first,

Track 1: to you know to and he assumed he's a good archaeologist and he was able to get

Track 1: the thing that he wanted more and he just essentially is riding on his coattails

Track 1: pretty much every single time in this movie he doesn't ever,

Track 1: get close enough he gets close to a lot of things but he never gets there and

Track 1: he has to steal from indiana jones because he's a shitty-ass archaeologist.

Track 2: I think that Belloc is, the way he's particularly,

Track 2: I think that what we are supposed to assume is basically like,

Track 2: Belloc is more capable, he's more unscrupulous than Jones in a lot of ways, obviously.

Track 2: And one of those ways is that he doesn't, it doesn't matter who or where he gets his money from.

Track 2: And so he is capable of using that that to a far greater degree than Jones is.

Track 2: Jones, it's clear that he works at the university, he's trying to get money

Track 2: from the university, and it's like the university doesn't have money.

Track 2: Belloc is getting money from whoever, and he's using that money to gain access

Track 2: to things or influence people so that he doesn't have to do those things.

Track 1: He's just unprincipled.

Track 2: Yeah, he's just, yeah.

Track 1: I mean, not that, you know, Jones is completely principled, but more principled

Track 1: than the most unprincipled.

Track 1: Yeah, so this is the other scene that I remember watching as a kid the first

Track 1: few times. I was maybe probably like six or five watching this as they go to the island.

Track 1: And after the hilarious scene where Jones puts on the Nazi uniform and then

Track 1: the guy comes up to him and tells him to straighten his hair and put on his hat.

Track 1: And then just knees him right in the chest to knock him out.

Track 1: But they planned like this Jewish ceremony,

Track 1: And the other head Nazi is basically like, I don't feel comfortable,

Track 1: you know, doing something that's pro-Jews, Jewish people.

Track 1: And he's like, no, but we got to test. Like, what if it doesn't work?

Track 1: We take it back to Hitler. And he's like, oh, you fucked me over.

Track 1: You know, you're going to get killed. At least now they could find out.

Track 1: And they open it up and they think they haven't, they just sand.

Track 1: And then it turns out to be, you know, this object that you said is magic,

Track 1: you know, supernatural.

Track 1: It has all these souls inside and it kills everyone because they look and he

Track 1: and Marion are like on that post trying to close their eyes while the lightning

Track 1: storm is happening and shit.

Track 1: It's such a great scene, but it looks cool. I don't, I don't,

Track 1: when I say that in the sense that.

Track 2: Does it even count as CGI? I don't think, does that even CGI? That's not CGI.

Track 1: Oh, you're right. It's practical. I mean, I guess the clouds are CGI,

Track 1: but the, the, the melting faces are all probably practical effects, right?

Track 2: Those are practical effects. Yes. All the melting faces are practical effects.

Track 2: And I don't think any of that is CGI.

Track 2: I think it's actually, I believe that is, it's matte paintings and it is,

Track 2: I believe it's animation. I don't think it's CGI.

Track 1: Oh, animation. Okay. That actually makes a lot. It doesn't look like you would

Track 1: typically would see. I was trying to sing it up.

Track 1: this is where i wish i had watched the uh the making but i didn't have a chance

Track 1: to watch it yeah the the death scenes with the faces were all like different

Track 1: models and they created like a mold of their faces and then they said they lined

Track 1: their bladder with air and so they could suck,

Track 1: the air out to make it shrivel which looked really cool.

Track 2: And then melt them.

Track 1: Yeah yeah i was trying to find the at least the wikipedia doesn't specifically mentioned,

Track 1: that but apparently they had to change the belloc death scene to to have it

Track 1: not be an r-rated movie they had to change the flames and stuff over it.

Track 2: To conceal.

Track 1: One of the effects.

Track 2: It is composite effects um oh okay it is composite effects the arc spirits oh

Track 2: they did they did the water tanks uh they did the water tank effect for the for the spirits um,

Track 2: and it's on a blue screen so it's composite effects.

Track 2: And then for the, uh, the ghosts, they did the, the, the, the water tank effect, which, um,

Track 2: if no, you know, if nobody's familiar with that, it's basically it's you suspend

Track 2: them, you suspend something in a, uh, a water tank.

Track 2: And then there is a, I forget exactly how they do it.

Track 2: It's, it's a very old technique that has been used for fucking long before CGI

Track 2: i ever existed done they've done a lot of movies um and then it is composite

Track 2: it is put over um the other it's like stacked images um,

Track 2: i think the closest thing actually the water tank effect the closest thing is,

Track 2: if you ever anybody has been to uh,

Track 2: the haunted mansion at disney world the famous the speaking head at the end

Track 2: that is a form of the water tank effect that way of like creating a visual illusion,

Track 2: so that it looks like it's being, you know,

Track 2: it's like ghostly and it's like elevated.

Track 2: But yeah, it's not CGI.

Track 1: Yeah. I mean, it looks the, the, I would say the.

Track 2: It's beautiful. I think it's beautiful. I love those old effects.

Track 1: Yeah i i didn't mean to say that that they don't they necessarily look i mean

Track 1: especially for the timing,

Track 1: again i say this probably a lot is that some of the special and practical effects they've done

Track 1: in the 80s look more they don't feel i mean they're dated but they don't feel

Track 1: crappy compared to effects from 10 or 15 years ago that were done with like

Track 1: you know computer cgi that just like look like shit,

Track 1: yeah and and let's face it too like lucas industry lucas studio and spielberg they had money,

Track 1: but they did apparently make some changes so i said one thing that they had

Track 1: detailed scripts apparently when they would go between different locations but

Track 1: they're like we can't do that so we're just gonna have a map that shows a line,

Track 1: and it's gonna dot around the world where you're which.

Track 2: Has become like yeah they did that it's like a money set but like that has become iconic,

Track 2: It is such a visual language that has become so iconic for this type of film,

Track 2: this kind of like adventure film, this adventure serial kind of like thing.

Track 2: It is a touchstone of this genre. And it never like, I'm sorry, never gets old.

Track 1: No.

Track 2: Every time it comes up, every time it gets up, I'm like, ooh, there's that map.

Track 1: And it has Palestine on it.

Track 2: And address that palace line, yep.

Track 1: I think maybe this was an intentional thing is when early in the movie,

Track 1: when they're talking about the arc, they never refer to them as the Jews.

Track 1: I think he refers to them specifically as the Hebrews who had the original arc.

Track 1: And then they, I don't think they ever even use that. Even when like the Nazi

Track 1: is saying like, they don't feel comfortable.

Track 1: He doesn't say like this, does he say Jewish ritual or he just say this ritual?

Track 2: I don't recall.

Track 1: I was thinking like that. They avoid referring, you know, to talk about it as like a Jewish thing.

Track 1: Instead, this is more of a, you know, historical kind of thing,

Track 1: which I think is smart because there's no reason to bring, I mean, I guess.

Track 2: Yeah. Yeah.

Track 1: I'm trying to think of what other things, I mean, the end of the movie is also,

Track 1: I think, always this funny scene, which I assume is like the National Archive

Track 1: or something, where they just,

Track 1: they're like, oh, yeah, we got brilliant minds working on, you know,

Track 1: know top men studying the ark and it's just in a giant warehouse in a box it's,

Track 1: which honestly it's the where the.

Track 2: Warehouse i i i,

Track 2: I always wished that they did more with that. Like, I want to,

Track 2: like, you know, I want to explore that. I mean, this is, like,

Track 2: this is the earliest, like, it's the SCP.

Track 2: Like, that's what this is. It's like the SCP before that existed,

Track 2: you know? It's like the original notion of, like, you know, the government knows

Track 2: about the spooky things and they have it covered up, you know?

Track 2: It's like they're studying it.

Track 1: That could be, I don't think, is there any other Indiana Jones comic books?

Track 2: Yeah.

Track 1: Yes yes of course they're right of course they're like that would be something

Track 1: that they i don't know i don't know anything about them but that would be cool

Track 1: if there was something in there i mean

Track 1: the thing that's funny about it is you joke barissa before how they try and

Track 1: make it sound like the nazis are kind of bumbling idiots they kind of make it

Track 1: seem pretty clear that the united states government is also a bunch of

Track 1: it's like they don't know what to do so like hey you archaeologists we'll just

Track 1: give you some money will you go do this

Track 1: and then once they have the object of great and vast power.

Track 1: They just put it in a box in a room where who knows what could happen.

Track 2: I gotta be honest. Let's be real.

Track 2: If the United States government got the Ark of the Covenant and it was actually

Track 2: that powerful and they chose to just put it in a fucking box in a room,

Track 2: that would be the best possible outcome.

Track 1: You're right. They could have used it for mind-conference.

Track 2: Please! I wish the United States government would do that with more shit.

Track 2: I wish they'd be like, you know what? We figured out how to split the atom.

Track 2: Now we'll take that and put it in a box in place and never look at it again. Like, fucking please.

Track 1: That's a good point. The U.S. doesn't usually do that. They usually use whatever

Track 1: they can find to just kill as many people or hurt as many people as possible.

Track 2: I would love it if more governments behaved exactly in that way.

Track 2: We found this terrible thing. We will put it away and never look at it again. Please, thank you.

Track 2: Do us all a favor.

Track 1: It is just a funny way to end it and then does the credits roll while they're

Track 1: just looking at this vast you know facility and I want to know what.

Track 2: Else is in there what else they got in there.

Track 1: There was a lot of stuff.

Track 2: What's in there what's in that warehouse.

Track 1: I mean it's stuff that they can't make money on in a museum so it's gotta be,

Track 1: I don't know this is before the nuke nuclear bomb so it's not weapons i don't know what the fuck well.

Track 2: No i we have to assume it's all weird supernatural shit.

Track 1: I guess so.

Track 2: Or like aliens it's all extraterrestrial shit and weird supernatural stuff.

Track 1: But there is a lot of box there's like thousands of them.

Track 2: Yeah that's what i want to that's why i want to know what do they got in there,

Track 2: what other cultures crazy you know supernatural you know stuff did they got in there.

Track 1: It's uh it's all the stuff they're going to use when they make star wars,

Track 1: it's that's the stuff from the that's the stuff that they collected from the

Track 1: galaxy far far away and then they brought it back i don't know,

Track 1: i think it's just i mean again it's one of the it's more just i think it's just

Track 1: so funny that this room is just filled i wonder when people what do people have

Track 1: uh theories on that so i'm sure someone i'm.

Track 2: Sure they do.

Track 1: I don't really have much else that I can think of from this movie.

Track 1: I mean, we didn't talk about all of the chase scenes.

Track 1: I mean, there's several that happen. There's one where at one point Indiana

Track 1: Jones has a horse in a place where like mostly people just have camels and stuff.

Track 1: So like that kind of horse fell out of place, but he needed the horse to, you know, chase down.

Track 1: And he threatens to the most funny, he threatens to blow up the arc.

Track 1: If he doesn't get married and he's like, I'm sorry, dude, you're not going to blow up the arc.

Track 1: You would kill Marion in a heartbeat over the arc. We already established this.

Track 2: Yeah, we've already established. Yeah.

Track 1: I also always loved, this is another funny gag, is when Arnold Tot comes into

Track 1: the tent where Marion and Bellocca are drinking.

Track 1: She's drinking him under the table so she can escape. And he comes in and he

Track 1: pulls out what you think is some kind of torture device, and it's just his hanger

Track 1: that unfolds for his jacket.

Track 1: I love the hanger. That is one of the greatest scenes in the movie because knowing

Track 1: the Nazis as modern day, like, what is he going to bring out?

Track 1: Is it going to be some kind of torture device? And then it's for the guy behind him to hold his coat.

Track 2: Yeah.

Track 1: And it's...

Track 2: I love that hanger. I don't know why. That scene really does. It is a great scene.

Track 1: Can you buy that hanger?

Track 2: I'm sure. I mean, it's just, again, we return to the, like, the...

Track 2: And listen, I think Spielberg has fallen far from where he was.

Track 1: Oh, don't get me started on that.

Track 2: But, you know, this is the kind of thing where it's like, this is at a time

Track 2: when movies were allowed to be movies.

Track 2: They were allowed to be stories in which, you know, character and plot were, you know, given weight.

Track 2: and given the space to breathe.

Track 2: And nowadays, you know, everything is just content.

Track 2: You know, everything is content. It's just how, you know, how fast can we get

Track 2: an audience through this so they can, you know, see the next thing and pay for it.

Track 1: Yeah, that's true. I mean, yeah, this is, I mean, I haven't watched,

Track 1: I think only Warren and I watched that new Spielberg movie, the one.

Track 2: I've not yet watched it.

Track 1: Disclosure Day, which is really,

Track 1: really bad. I think I was saying at some point that he hasn't really,

Track 1: in my personal opinion, has not made a good movie for a really long time. And it's kind of sad.

Track 2: I'm looking up his...

Track 1: Oh, so for me, his last really good movie that I really enjoyed was probably,

Track 1: Minority Report, which was in 2002.

Track 1: And since then, he's made Catch Me If You Can. It's pretty fun.

Track 1: He made War of the Worlds, which was terrible. He made Munich,

Track 1: which— Oh, you like War of the Worlds?

Track 2: I think War of the Worlds is— I think War of the Worlds deserves—.

Track 1: Maybe I should rewatch it. I saw it in the theater and walked out being like,

Track 1: this fucking sucked, but maybe upon rewatch, it's not as bad as I remember.

Track 2: I could be wrong. Honestly, I could be wrong. It's been a long time since I

Track 2: watched it. You know, I could be wrong.

Track 1: Then he has munich which is like a really fucked up movie also deeply,

Track 1: uh propaganda-y then he's got crystal skull timeless call the adventures of

Track 1: tintin war horse lincoln bridge of spies bfg,

Track 1: the post player ready player one which is absolutely horrendous yeah west side

Track 1: story the fableman to a lot of people really like that movie i thought it was terrible.

Track 2: West Side Story, like, doesn't, like, how does, like, West Side Story,

Track 2: as far as I'm concerned, like, it doesn't even count.

Track 2: It's, he just, it's,

Track 2: He just filmed the fucking play. Like, you know, it's not like, you know.

Track 2: Yeah. Like, it's nothing. It's fucking West Side Story. He didn't do anything

Track 2: new. It's just fucking West Side Story.

Track 1: Yeah. And then Disclosure Day, which is terrible. However, someone recently

Track 1: made a video about his 2000 movie, one movie, AI, Artificial Intelligence.

Track 1: And at the time, the movie was, I think, I don't remember how it was received.

Track 1: I don't remember liking it, but I haven't seen it since it came out.

Track 1: Some were saying that it actually is, like, if you watch it in today's,

Track 1: by AI today, it's actually really good.

Track 2: Right. But the thing about AI is that, and now we're not even talking about,

Track 2: we're beyond Indiana Jones. Now we're just talking about Stephen Silver.

Track 2: But the thing about AI is that, you know, there was issues with,

Track 2: like, the way it ended. Like, there was basically two separate artistic visions

Track 2: that were, like, crammed together in one movie.

Track 2: So it's like, AI is a weird hybrid bastard of a movie.

Track 1: Yeah. Again, I haven't seen it since it came out or soon after,

Track 1: so I can't, I don't want to say.

Track 1: And then before that, though, he had such great movies.

Track 1: He had Saving Private Ryan. He had Lost World, Shinzo's List,

Track 1: Jurassic Park, Hook, Indiana Jones.

Track 1: He had E.T., the other Raiders, the other Indiana, three Raiders,

Track 1: Indiana Jones. He had Close Encounters, Jaws. I mean, he was making bangers.

Track 2: I just want to point out that you just cited The Lost World as a good movie,

Track 2: and it has dinosaurs in it, so it automatically is a B in my book.

Track 2: But The Lost World is, of the first three, original three Jurassic Parks, I believe the weakest.

Track 2: I believe Jurassic Park 3 does not get the actual credit it deserves.

Track 1: The problem with you could be right there i usually rank lost world over part

Track 1: three but the one part about lost world that is just makes it so boring again

Track 1: we're not talking about the movie anymore

Track 1: is that it's just too slow to develop the movie it just takes there's a lot

Track 1: of like especially if you've read the book it's like very politic-y

Track 1: and sort of you know it's not oh yeah it's just it's it's too boring and they

Track 1: didn't do enough to make it less boring i think,

Track 1: I think I gave it three and a half stars on Letterboxd, so maybe you can fight me on that one.

Track 2: I'm just shocked that you cited that as a highlight of his career.

Track 1: All right, all right.

Track 1: I mean, again, maybe I'm just going by the, you said dinosaur,

Track 1: it has dinosaurs, it's pretty good. Part three is pretty miserable, though. I don't know.

Track 2: I think part three deserves more than it gets. I think part three is actually better than two.

Track 1: I do love the, just the flying, you know.

Track 2: Pterosaurs.

Track 1: Pterosaurs, yeah. That whole part's pretty awesome.

Track 2: I mean, but you're right, though. Basically, after Minority Report,

Track 2: Catch Me If You Can, honestly, The Terminal is a good movie.

Track 1: Yeah. I had a friend, I had a roommate who loved that movie,

Track 1: and it actually is kind of a heartfelt movie that's pretty...

Track 2: But at the same time, how much... Like, there is an argument to be made that,

Track 2: like, you know, like, Catch Me If You Can, The Terminal, like,

Track 2: those are movies that, like, also

Track 2: have a particular cast that can elevate, you know, like...

Track 1: Yes. Because he can get anyone who wants to be in any one of his movies.

Track 2: Right. And, I mean, The Terminal, that's a Tom Hanks vehicle.

Track 2: Like, it's fucking... That's Tom Hanks, like...

Track 2: And it's Todd Hanks at like the height of his career. Yeah.

Track 1: And even though I don't think that Lincoln was a good movie overall,

Track 1: Daniel Day-Lewis played that, I mean, the greatest actor of our lives, perhaps.

Track 2: Right. I mean, but I do think you're right that like, you know,

Track 2: since 2002, it's been basically downhill.

Track 1: Yeah. I mean, again, here and there, there's some okay movies,

Track 1: but not a lot of those movies are movies that I'd be like, hey,

Track 1: I'm going to rewatch. However, I think I'm going to have to rewatch War of the

Track 1: Worlds. That's with Tom Cruise and Dakota Fanning, right?

Track 2: Tom Cruise. Yeah.

Track 1: I just remember walking, I think at the time it came out, I had read that book

Track 1: in college and I really liked the book.

Track 1: And then I remember watching the movie, I'm just thinking, I don't see it, but maybe.

Track 2: I think that basic, I think the biggest problem with the War of the Worlds movie

Track 2: is that it is a War of the Worlds movie.

Track 2: So honestly, I think that's the biggest issue.

Track 2: is that you're like, you're tied to that. And it's like, I think there's like

Track 2: some unexplored like elements of it.

Track 2: But again, I haven't seen it in a long time. Maybe I'm misremembering how much I enjoyed it.

Track 1: Yeah. Well, I mean, it's definitely the best. It's definitely better than the one with Ice Cube.

Track 2: I mean, this is a low fucking bar. i mean that's the one of the worst movies.

Track 1: I've ever seen in my.

Track 2: Life i mean i i hesitate to call it a movie it's the worst.

Track 1: Thing i've seen on a screen that wasn't like news that's terrible.

Track 2: Yeah yeah that's yeah that's a way to put it yeah yeah it's the worst thing

Track 2: i've seen on a screen that isn't news about fucking natural disasters or genocide.

Track 1: Yeah pretty much that's But yeah, I got nothing. I mean, I think I'm going to

Track 1: have to go back and watch some of these.

Track 1: I've had this conversation with someone from another podcast about Steven Spielberg

Track 1: and our feelings about them.

Track 1: And I used to feel like he had this movie. I mean, I think about he has some

Track 1: of my favorite movies like Jaws, Hook, Jurassic Park are probably three of my top 20.

Track 1: Indiana Jones, this movie in

Track 1: my top 20 or 30 movies that I've seen the most of any movies in my life.

Track 1: but then it's just that you know they're just.

Track 2: Minority Report deserves to be in there too.

Track 1: I love Minority Report I did an episode I love that movie it's a great movie

Track 1: even though it kind of slightly bastardized some of the original source material I still love it.

Track 2: I don't you know it's yeah you're right but like.

Track 1: It's not.

Track 2: Why I'm watching it I'm watching it because I'm watching that movie.

Track 1: You know I don't care oh I mean Colin Farrell Tom I mean the movie's great it's,

Track 1: It's fucking phenomenal. Yeah.

Track 2: It's one of those movies that's like, I don't like Tom Cruise.

Track 2: It's also one of the best performances Tom Cruise has put out.

Track 2: Yeah, I enjoy that. Tom Cruise is not actually, hot take, not actually a great

Track 2: actor. He basically does the same thing in every movie.

Track 1: He's a great performer.

Track 2: But he does, in Minority Report, he does something different, and it's fucking great.

Track 1: See, I'll push back. I think Tom Cruise is a reprehensible person,

Track 1: but I love so many Tom Cruise movies. I think he is a good actor.

Track 1: I think he chooses not to do movies where he can do good acting. Because.

Track 2: That's, that's what I mean. Yes, I agree. I 100% agree. I think he,

Track 2: he can be, I think he is a good actor. I think he is a, I think he just doesn't have to. And he.

Track 1: He can just be Tom Cruise and that's it.

Track 2: He just can't be Tom Cruise. Like I, because yes, throughout movies we have

Track 2: seen, he can perform. He could.

Track 1: Magnolia. He could put out. Tropic Thunder.

Track 2: An incredible, I fucking hate Magnolia.

Track 1: Oh, really? It's kind of a rough movie, but he's really good in it.

Track 1: I mean, Collateral he's really good in, even though he's not.

Track 2: It is. Collateral does not. Story time.

Track 2: Back when I used to work for a newspaper, I reviewed.

Track 2: I we had a very short-lived pilot program for the newspaper which I and another,

Track 2: uh reporter at the paper would go to a movie and then to like our own like local

Track 2: like thing and we saw collateral,

Track 2: um and I think collateral is a much underappreciated film I think it is a lot

Track 2: better and Tom Cruise doesn't play Tom Cruise in collateral no he plays a character.

Track 1: Yeah, we, we probably need, we should, I was thinking about,

Track 1: I think I've only ever covered one movie, two movies by, um,

Track 1: Michael Mann and he's, he's one of my favorite directors of all time.

Track 2: And we should, I know you want to do a, yeah, I know.

Track 1: I always joke about doing Michael Mann March where you just for the month of

Track 1: March, you just do it. We don't have to, we don't have to do it in March.

Track 1: You could just, I mean, the ones I really want to do are Thief and The Insider

Track 1: would also be a really good one to do.

Track 1: Um, yeah. Miami Vice also doesn't get enough love. I think that movie is pretty

Track 1: good, even though people shit on it a lot. It's a movie about vibes.

Track 2: I don't think I've ever seen it.

Track 1: Oh, it's got Colin Farrell and Jamie Foxx play the- Yeah.

Track 2: I know.

Track 1: Oh, it's so, it feels like an 80s movie made in 2006, but that's what it's supposed to be, I guess.

Track 2: Does he have a crocodile?

Track 1: No.

Track 2: I'm sorry. I'm mixing them up with Magnet P.I. Never mind. Ignore that.

Track 1: That'll be stricken and cut from the record. Whoever edits this should never remove that part.

Track 1: But yeah, I got nothing left. I mean.

Track 2: Yeah, I mean, I feel like we didn't ruin Indiana Jones.

Track 1: No.

Track 2: There's definitely, there's criticisms to be made, but I do think that they're

Track 2: still good, you know, they're good movies.

Track 1: Yeah. I think that if we did the second one, you'd probably have more things to criticize.

Track 1: Honestly, I think about the third one, Last Crusade, it's, I've seen it a lot of times, and,

Track 1: probably one of the things that I, the quote, the Indiana Jones quote that I

Track 1: probably say more than anything else, and I don't even know how it ends up coming up in context,

Track 1: is when he says, Jehovah starts with an I, and he's like, you know,

Track 1: he's doing the, like, the puzzles, and he says, Jehovah starts with an I,

Track 1: and I like the Sean Connery, uh.

Track 2: That's a good Sean Connery.

Track 1: R.I.P. Sean Connery, right? He's dead. It would be a sucky if I said that and

Track 1: he wasn't. But no, he definitely died. I was about to say, have we ever done,

Track 1: have I ever done a Bond movie on this podcast? And the answer is one.

Track 2: Have a good night, folks.